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ghosttr Amarr Point-Zero Ratel Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.19 19:41:00 - [61] Originally by: Nicocat The whine that cloaking = exploit is the worst whine ever. Whoever said it, please kindly stfu. However, CCP does agree that cloaking is unbalanced. Remember, they were gonna implement probing of cloaked ships in Kali. They didn't, and that's not surprising, but they thought about it. From Scams & Exploits http://support.eve-online.com/Pages/KB/Article.aspx?id=34 Quote: An exploit is when someone bypasses normal game mechanics, such as by utilizing a bug in the game, allowing him to take advantage of other players without them having any means of preventing it whatsoever Under eves terms it could quailfy as an exploit, especially if he knows hes doing it, and does it on purpose. becuase it allows him to take advantage of other players without them having any means of preventing it whatsoever. SUPPORT T2 FIX!
Cordelia Simonova Privateers Privateer Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.19 19:48:00 - [62] The moment cloaks can be found by scans is the moment cloaks become useless. The sole reason for having them is removed. Cloaks and cloaked ships have enough problems as it is. Anyone who knows how to fly cloaked ships know how tricky they are to keep alive, how difficult they are to fit effectively and easy they are to detect.
ghosttr Amarr Point-Zero Ratel Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.19 19:54:00 - [63] Originally by: Cordelia Simonova The moment cloaks can be found by scans is the moment cloaks become useless. The sole reason for having them is removed. Cloaks and cloaked ships have enough problems as it is. Anyone who knows how to fly cloaked ships know how tricky they are to keep alive, how difficult they are to fit effectively and easy they are to detect. you = wartarget hope to see you in a pod soon. Cloaks should be completely viable for operations, im not saying nerf the cloak, but it should not be an 'i win' button for someone to sit an alt in the middle of a target system, and have no chance of being found. It should be made so that it is either an exploit, or the cloak becomes weaker over time, or rquires fuel or somthing along that route SUPPORT T2 FIX!
Marcus TheMartin Gallente Tuxedo.	Posted - 2007.01.19 19:57:00 - [64] Originally by: Cordelia Simonova The moment cloaks can be found by scans is the moment cloaks become useless. The sole reason for having them is removed. Cloaks and cloaked ships have enough problems as it is. Anyone who knows how to fly cloaked ships know how tricky they are to keep alive, how difficult they are to fit effectively and easy they are to detect. Warp to a moon with a cloak on from some random location and stay there for 30 days and see how long it takes for you to get found. Well known fact: most facts aren't well known
SerialTurd	Posted - 2007.01.19 20:00:00 - [65] Originally by: ghoststalkertr Originally by: Aurel Senia Originally by: ghosttr putting a cloaked alt in a system 23/7 for 2 weeks should be an exploit. Why should it be an exploit? because its using something to gain an unfair advantage. how would you like it if i put a cloaked alt in your system 23/7 for 2 weeks?, ofc you can get a fleet up but the sob stays cload and cannot be found. But it's using the games built in mechanins. He's not bending any rules or using something exploit... that's like saying were at war with a corp and they just recruited a whole 30 other people into their corp, it's an exploit!!!!! So if he's sitting in your system... tough luck, though I do agree there should be something to combat cloacked ships, such as the destroyer.
Xaintrix Revolution. The Shadow Ascension	Posted - 2007.01.19 20:09:00 - [66] While not an exploit, I'd like to see them put more use into the Destroyer class by having them be much like they are in today's navy: Sub Hunters. They're made for taking on frigs, or should be at least. Might as well give it another niche function.
ghosttr Amarr Point-Zero Ratel Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.19 20:10:00 - [67] Originally by: SerialTurd Originally by: ghoststalkertr Originally by: Aurel Senia Originally by: ghosttr putting a cloaked alt in a system 23/7 for 2 weeks should be an exploit. Why should it be an exploit? because its using something to gain an unfair advantage. how would you like it if i put a cloaked alt in your system 23/7 for 2 weeks?, ofc you can get a fleet up but the sob stays cload and cannot be found. But it's using the games built in mechanins. He's not bending any rules or using something exploit... that's like saying were at war with a corp and they just recruited a whole 30 other people into their corp, it's an exploit!!!!! So if he's sitting in your system... tough luck, though I do agree there should be something to combat cloacked ships, such as the destroyer. That would not be an exploit because you have a way to counter it, there is no way to find a cloaked ship at a ss, or even a 200km bm for that matter. In that case a counter would be to get more people, use alts, or give up and die. But anyways its completely irrelevant. [quuote]An exploit is when someone bypasses normal game mechanics, such as by utilizing a bug in the game, allowing him to take advantage of other players without them having any means of preventing it whatsoever. You bypass the game mechanics by using it for extened periods of time, the big is not being able to detect after an amount of time, or at all. And it allows him (or those hes affiliated with) to take advantage of other players without them having any means of preventing it whatsoever. Also the offending sob has been petitioned, and i have a case with the gms, due to the time it has been used by the perpetrator. SUPPORT T2 FIX!
James Snowscoran Coreli Corporation Corelum Syndicate	Posted - 2007.01.19 20:13:00 - [68] It's not an exploit but it's still stupid. There should be a way to find the ships if they're afk, that is avoidable if they are by the computer paying attention. One way is to make the cloaking device use inexpensive fuel that has to be reloaded into the device from time to time, kinda like a cap injector. If noone's there to turn the cloak on again after it finishes reloading the ship stays uncloaked. -----
Marcus TheMartin Gallente Tuxedo.	Posted - 2007.01.19 20:17:00 - [69] Originally by: James Snowscoran It's not an exploit but it's still stupid. There should be a way to find the ships if they're afk, that is avoidable if they are by the computer paying attention. One way is to make the cloaking device use inexpensive fuel that has to be reloaded into the device from time to time, kinda like a cap injector. If noone's there to turn the cloak on again after it finishes reloading the ship stays uncloaked. I am all for the fuel. THE FUEL!!!! Well known fact: most facts aren't well known
Turin Caldari RONA Deepspace Rule of Three	Posted - 2007.01.19 20:18:00 - [70] I think the easiest solution would be this. Inactivity timers. If you dont hit a key into EVE in say. 1 hour, your disconnected. This does two thingas. Gets rid of the annoying AFK cloaker, whos only there to **** you off. Cuts un needed connectins, thus improving lag and game quality. ________________________________________________________

Marcus TheMartin Gallente Tuxedo.	Posted - 2007.01.19 20:20:00 - [71] Originally by: Turin I think the easiest solution would be this. Inactivity timers. If you dont hit a key into EVE in say. 1 hour, your disconnected. This does two thingas. Gets rid of the annoying AFK cloaker, whos only there to **** you off. Cuts un needed connectins, thus improving lag and game quality. You forgot to add a countermeasure to cloaks Well known fact: most facts aren't well known
Bawldeux IV Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2007.01.19 20:23:00 - [72] cloaking is not an exploit staying in a system cloaked to spy on anyone is not an exploit a covops ship is a poor poor poor POOR pvp ship, so it in itself has no advantage over your cepters, BC's....heck, it would have a tough time popping a pod as was already posted before, use your own spies in connected systems to warn you of the incoming gank squads. there RA, now stop whining...
Bawldeux IV Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2007.01.19 20:25:00 - [73] Originally by: Turin I think the easiest solution would be this. Inactivity timers. If you dont hit a key into EVE in say. 1 hour, your disconnected. This does two thingas. Gets rid of the annoying AFK cloaker, whos only there to **** you off. Cuts un needed connectins, thus improving lag and game quality. honestly, this is a great idea, regardless of this thread.
Mar Idoun Aurora Empire Fuzzy Nut Attack Squirrels	Posted - 2007.01.19 20:30:00 - [74] if you look into a database there is currently an unseeded cloak busting mod. Some kind of burst, i'll look for it, curretnyl can't remember where i saw it.
Marcus TheMartin Gallente Tuxedo.	Posted - 2007.01.19 20:30:00 - [75] Originally by: Bawldeux IV cloaking is not an exploit staying in a system cloaked to spy on anyone is not an exploit a covops ship is a poor poor poor POOR pvp ship, so it in itself has no advantage over your cepters, BC's....heck, it would have a tough time popping a pod as was already posted before, use your own spies in connected systems to warn you of the incoming gank squads. there RA, now stop whining... yes we know but it still needs a countermeasure Well known fact: most facts aren't well known
Eralus	Posted - 2007.01.19 20:36:00 - [76] Edited by: Eralus on 19/01/2007 20:33:46 So I got a question... If there's an AFK char sitting in your system that you can't find... WHO CARES?! Actually, I think it's kinda funny. It's a way to nerf local. Just sit there AFK And cloaked all the time, so your 'not being there' state is the same as your 'being there' state; i.e., the people in the system don't know if you're REALLY there or not. I don't think there should necessarily be a COUNTER to cloaks, but there should be some, say, enhanced negative. Possible options: Anti-cloak bubble/field. Good for a full grid. Doesn't actually decloak anyone, but makes cloaks burn 50, 100, 200% more cap. That way you can keep people from indefinitely camping a grid with a gate or station without putting some effort/expense into it. Anti-cloak drone control unit. High-slot device that causes your drones to fly around in a 3-D search pattern around your ship. Drone gets within 1000,2000,2500 meters of a cloaked ship and it gets decloaked. Maybe you need special anti-cloaking drones to do this, and they're really slow. Cloak-detection bubble/field. Won't actually decloak anyone, but will tell you if there is a cloaked ship within the bubble/field. That way you could set one up on a gate in your sovereign systems so you'd at least know if cloaked ships were going in/out. You'll note that none of these suggestions involves an easy way to insta-decloak someone. They just nudge the cloak balance a LITTLE BIT away from the cloaker. And those things are put in, I'd say let cloaked pilots NOT appear in Local. If you want to know if a cloaked pilot is in your system, set up the fields you need to detect that they're there. _____ Lifewire is a big, ugly, mean... carebear.
Eralus	Posted - 2007.01.19 20:38:00 - [77] Also, maybe you need special anti-cloak drones to do the 3D grid search, and the drones are very slow. _____ Lifewire is a big, ugly, mean... carebear.
Eralus	Posted - 2007.01.19 20:40:00 - [78] Originally by: Bawldeux IV Originally by: Turin I think the easiest solution would be this. Inactivity timers. If you dont hit a key into EVE in say. 1 hour, your disconnected. This does two thingas. Gets rid of the annoying AFK cloaker, whos only there to **** you off. Cuts un needed connectins, thus improving lag and game quality. honestly, this is a great idea, regardless of this thread. Won't work on getting rid of cloakers. They'll just install keep-alive programs. Might help with performance a bit though, but I don't think CCP really wants to deflate their 'connected players' number. _____ Lifewire is a big, ugly, mean... carebear.
Falcione Mortis Angelus Curse Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.19 20:57:00 - [79] Originally by: Turin I think the easiest solution would be this. Inactivity timers. If you dont hit a key into EVE in say. 1 hour, your disconnected. That happens to me already... I usually have to talk to someone in corp or local to stay connected. I thought this was a standard feature already. Or is it a "feature"? ----------- My Bio in Progress Prologue / CH.1
Marcus TheMartin Gallente Tuxedo.	Posted - 2007.01.19 20:57:00 - [80] Originally by: Falcione Originally by: Turin I think the easiest solution would be this. Inactivity timers. If you dont hit a key into EVE in say. 1 hour, your disconnected. That happens to me already... I usually have to talk to someone in corp or local to stay connected. I thought this was a standard feature already. Or is it a "feature"? Its not a defect its a feature! Well known fact: most facts aren't well known

Sagnius	Posted - 2007.01.19 21:23:00 - [81] ok, here is your counter measure to cloaked ships in local DONT LET THEM IN TO START WITH!!! why did you let a hostile into 'your' system in the first place? didnt you defend your gates etc...????? didnt you know someone was heading your way and set up dictors and such to catch him on the way in? and, has he actually done anything while he been there?
Zyrla Bladestorm Minmatar Foundation R0ADKILL	Posted - 2007.01.19 21:26:00 - [82] I've seen it done with about a dozen characters spread across a couple of systems, a carrier seemingly carrying half a dozen hacs, half a dozen recon cruisers and finally the rest in covert ops (ready to switch to the hacs) not really anything you can do about it, you tended to not even know they'd decided to come back from afk till they'd already ganked someone. They kept it up for a couple of weeks in the end. Exploit ? definetely not, somewhat impressive show of dedication? yep. But pretty frustrating all the same since the only "defence" vs it involves hacing a bunch of people spend 23/7 awake and staring into space where the cloaker barely spends any time at all. . ----- It's great being Minmatar, ain't it? Apologies for any rambling that may have just occurred.
hotgirl933	Posted - 2007.01.19 21:27:00 - [83] CCP were going to allow covert ops scanning ships a very minute chance of finding cloaked ships it would take an hour or two but would mean cloaked ships needed to keep moving or be active this hasnt happened in kali and is a big disappointment because of it
Jezala Mom 'n' Pop Ammo Shoppe X-PACT	Posted - 2007.01.19 21:37:00 - [84] Edited by: Jezala on 19/01/2007 21:40:19 I am completely baffled at how some people can insist on claiming that a covert ops ship, cloaked in a system, with little to no weaponry, who does nothing but sit in a system can pose such a magnificent threat to a 10-ship fleet such that it is considered to be an "I Win" button. HUH?? Explain to me again what's so threatening about a cloaked ship that for all intents and purposes can't shoot back. And how exactly does the cloaked ship "win"? Originally by: Zyrla Bladestorm Exploit ? definetely not, somewhat impressive show of dedication? yep. But pretty frustrating all the same since the only "defence" vs it involves hacing a bunch of people spend 23/7 awake and staring into space where the cloaker barely spends any time at all. The hell do you need a defense for? What's the helios going to do, scram and ransom your freighter? Christ, if RATEL is going to be such a wimp over a single cloaked ship that literally does nothing but sit in system then I should go pay a visit to their home systems. ...and yes, we do sell and deliver ammo. 425 Express Delivery is available upon request, please see Hans Gates and Marcus Grisbius regarding this option.
Marcus TheMartin Gallente Tuxedo.	Posted - 2007.01.19 21:53:00 - [85] Originally by: Jezala Edited by: Jezala on 19/01/2007 21:40:19 I am completely baffled at how some people can insist on claiming that a covert ops ship, cloaked in a system, with little to no weaponry, who does nothing but sit in a system can pose such a magnificent threat to a 10-ship fleet such that it is considered to be an "I Win" button. HUH?? Explain to me again what's so threatening about a cloaked ship that for all intents and purposes can't shoot back. And how exactly does the cloaked ship "win"? Originally by: Zyrla Bladestorm Exploit ? definetely not, somewhat impressive show of dedication? yep. But pretty frustrating all the same since the only "defence" vs it involves hacing a bunch of people spend 23/7 awake and staring into space where the cloaker barely spends any time at all. The hell do you need a defense for? What's the helios going to do, scram and ransom your freighter? Christ, if RATEL is going to be such a wimp over a single cloaked ship that literally does nothing but sit in system then I should go pay a visit to their home systems. Consider why do people but spies in alliance now consider why would people want eyes in your systems. And virtually nothing can be done to poke those eyes out Well known fact: most facts aren't well known
AKULA UrQuan Caldari STK Scientific	Posted - 2007.01.19 21:57:00 - [86] even if it was possible to probe for a cloaked covert getting inside 2km to decloak one may prove easier said than done.
Princess Jodi	Posted - 2007.01.19 23:02:00 - [87] The reason that sitting in a system cloaked is such a problem is that it prevents any Mining or Ratting being done in the system. I saw this first-hand when we were fighting RA in N7- system: RA had a cloaked covert ops ship there for months, and occasionally they would follow up on intel it gave with a fleet to gank miners. I have no problem with an ACTIVE cloaked ship spying on us, but the fact was that this guy was there 23/7 for months. He was sitting in a 600-AU safespot, and the only chance to ever get him was when he reloged after downtime. I must say, that single ship was more effective in disrupting operations than all the fleets I've ever battled. We tried things like having our own scouts in adjacent systems to provide warning of incomming fleets, but the cloaker also had off-grid ships with cynos available to them, so a fleet could just be jumped on top of us. All I ask is some form of counter for this type of activity. I don't think that Cloaked ships should be scannable, but there must be some way to fight back. Fuel usage would be good. Maybee force a logoff of any character that doesn't click a mouse for an hour. Please, CCP, give us some hope on this issue.
Matrix Aran Legio Immortalis	Posted - 2007.01.19 23:08:00 - [88] Originally by: ghoststalkertr Originally by: Aurel Senia Originally by: ghosttr putting a cloaked alt in a system 23/7 for 2 weeks should be an exploit. Why should it be an exploit? because its using something to gain an unfair advantage. how would you like it if i put a cloaked alt in your system 23/7 for 2 weeks?, ofc you can get a fleet up but the sob stays cload and cannot be found. Well go ahead and put one in my home system. You and the other tree can keep eachother company. It's not like we're watching you having sex or anything. Its not an unfair advantage if everyone can do it if they're determined enough. ----
Amerame Section XIII	Posted - 2007.01.19 23:10:00 - [89] Originally by: CharlieMurphy your not really suggesting its done for any other reason than to annoy the locals and prevent them from playing business as usual? Poor unorganised and defenseless carebear, please die.
Forum Troll	Posted - 2007.01.19 23:25:00 - [90] Cloaking is Rock, everything else is Scissors. Make a way to counter cloaking.



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