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ghosttr Amarr Point-Zero Ratel Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.19 16:10:00 - [1] We have had someone alt cloaked in local for about a week now, we have exhausted all methods of finding him. This alt does nothing but sit in system cloaked. And according to the gms its not an exploit. I think that there should be someway to find cloak ships, or putting a cloaked alt in a system 23/7 for 2 weeks should be an exploit. SUPPORT T2 FIX!
Marcus TheMartin Gallente Tuxedo.	Posted - 2007.01.19 16:12:00 - [2] Edited by: Marcus TheMartin on 19/01/2007 16:08:25 I've tried making this point so many times but every cloak junkie likes to respond simply with "good thats what they are meant to do blah blah" Or at least get rid of local so I don't know they are there DOWN WITH CTRL+Q!!!
ghoststalkertr	Posted - 2007.01.19 16:14:00 - [3] They are meant to cloak and spy, yes i agree with that. But if hes in your system 23/7 for multiple weeks it should be an exploit. Or there should be a limit of how long the cloak can stay online. (so if its an alt the main wont have time to constantly re-online the cloak)
Aurel Senia The Fayth	Posted - 2007.01.19 16:14:00 - [4] Originally by: ghosttr putting a cloaked alt in a system 23/7 for 2 weeks should be an exploit. Why should it be an exploit?
ghoststalkertr	Posted - 2007.01.19 16:17:00 - [5] Originally by: Aurel Senia Originally by: ghosttr putting a cloaked alt in a system 23/7 for 2 weeks should be an exploit. Why should it be an exploit? because its using something to gain an unfair advantage. how would you like it if i put a cloaked alt in your system 23/7 for 2 weeks?, ofc you can get a fleet up but the sob stays cload and cannot be found.
Niccolado Starwalker Shadow Templars	Posted - 2007.01.19 16:18:00 - [6] Originally by: ghosttr We have had someone alt cloaked in local for about a week now, we have exhausted all methods of finding him. This alt does nothing but sit in system cloaked. And according to the gms its not an exploit. I think that there should be someway to find cloak ships, or putting a cloaked alt in a system 23/7 for 2 weeks should be an exploit. Cloaking IS legal. This is what cloaking where made for. Hiding. Also, why should it be an exploit to sit cloaked and hidden? If it was really an exploit, the module itself would be the exploiter. But as long its a valid item in EVE, this "exploit" is allowed. Also, finding people who are hidden... If you could find someone who where hidden, it would defeat the purpose of the cloak, right? Its not an exploit. Its a valid tactic and information/gathering tool. A tool for espionage and preying on targets with. Originally by: Eldo Davip PORTRAITS OMFG WOOT. WE R GONIG FOR MROE BREEE!!!!11
CharlieMurphy Amarr Viziam	Posted - 2007.01.19 16:18:00 - [7] 23/7 is probably an exageration sinse people generally need to sleep sometime if this alt genuinely is in 1 system 23/7 that would suggest account sharing which the gms might take a little more seriously
Aurel Senia The Fayth	Posted - 2007.01.19 16:19:00 - [8] Originally by: ghoststalkertr because its using something to gain an unfair advantage. how would you like it if i put a cloaked alt in your system 23/7 for 2 weeks?, ofc you can get a fleet up but the sob stays cload and cannot be found. Unfair advantage? its a cloak, its SUPPOSED to make you invisible. You can put a cloaked alt in my system all year if you'd like, it still cloaked and can't do anything aggressive until it uncloaks. Sounds to me you're just whining because you have no options left.
Aurel Senia The Fayth	Posted - 2007.01.19 16:20:00 - [9] Edited by: Aurel Senia on 19/01/2007 16:16:46 Originally by: CharlieMurphy 23/7 is probably an exageration sinse people generally need to sleep sometime if this alt genuinely is in 1 system 23/7 that would suggest account sharing which the gms might take a little more seriously No, 23/7 just means somebody logs in and goes afk without logging off. What on EARTH is with the paranoia these days.
CharlieMurphy Amarr Viziam	Posted - 2007.01.19 16:21:00 - [10] ill also add if somebody is stupid enough to log on and then leave this alt there while they sleep that can easily come under grief play

Aurel Senia The Fayth	Posted - 2007.01.19 16:22:00 - [11] Originally by: CharlieMurphy ill also add if somebody is stupid enough to log on and then leave this alt there while they sleep that can easily come under grief play No, it doesn't classify as anything at all, period. What drugs are you on? You cannot grief someone simply by being in system with them.
Vizranuh	Posted - 2007.01.19 16:23:00 - [12] omg, an "exploit"? how ridiculous. this is what it's supposed to be used for! and i wouldn't even go as far as account sharing... this person has the ability to just leave his computer on all the time with the client running. even if the client is running in the background. an exploit... please.... get a grip of yourself. don't cry because you're being spied on. deal with it. it's part of the game. why don't you go put your own alt spy in someone else's system. --
Roshan longshot Gallente Ordos Humanitas	Posted - 2007.01.19 16:25:00 - [13] Originally by: ghosttr We have had someone alt cloaked in local for about a week now, we have exhausted all methods of finding him. This alt does nothing but sit in system cloaked. And according to the gms its not an exploit. I think that there should be someway to find cloak ships, or putting a cloaked alt in a system 23/7 for 2 weeks should be an exploit. Oh stop fracking crying and get some skill to find him. It can and has been done. Free-form Professions, ensure no limetations on professions. Be a trader, fighter, industialist, researcher, hunter *pirate* or mixture of them all. [i]As read from the original box.
Nir The Doldrums	Posted - 2007.01.19 16:25:00 - [14] Local chat is the problem here, not cloaks.
CharlieMurphy Amarr Viziam	Posted - 2007.01.19 16:26:00 - [15] Edited by: CharlieMurphy on 19/01/2007 16:23:23 Originally by: Aurel Senia No, it doesn't classify as anything at all, period. What drugs are you on? You cannot grief someone simply by being in system with them. why should i be on any drugs? because i think that cloaking and then going afk in a system for days and days on end is exploitative? your not really suggesting its done for any other reason than to annoy the locals and prevent them from playing business as usual? now if somebody does that while at their kb actually playing the game thats one thing,but to go afk in that manner shouldnt be allowed
Marcus TheMartin Gallente Tuxedo.	Posted - 2007.01.19 16:27:00 - [16] You guys don't get it every thing in eve can be countered but virtually nothing can counter the cloaked spy. Lets say hes in a small ship with a helios sitting outside of the station at 60km watching you. The only way to find him is to get within 2500m so he decloaks and even before you can get that close he could warp off and you'd never know about it. The only way to catch him would be to have a fleet of dominixes and carriers exit the station each taking a different angle to approach the distance of 60km from while releasing thier drones to decloak him. That is a hell of an effort to find one helios. lets not even discuss finding him in a safe spot. all I want is a countermeasure against the cloak spy DOWN WITH CTRL+Q!!!
Damien Smith Turbulent	Posted - 2007.01.19 16:28:00 - [17] Originally by: Nir Local chat is the problem here, not cloaks. QFT ----------- Join channel 'Turby' or die! (bring pie) I <3 carebears on toast ^^ - Xorus I'll trade you some carebears for some sheep -Tirg
Andargor theWise Disbelievers of Fate The SUdden Death Squad	Posted - 2007.01.19 16:28:00 - [18] Originally by: Marcus TheMartin I've tried making this point so many times but every cloak junkie likes to respond simply with "good thats what they are meant to do blah blah" Originally by: ghoststalkertr They are meant to cloak and spy, yes i agree with that. Originally by: Niccolado Starwalker This is what cloaking where made for. Originally by: Aurel Senia its a cloak, its SUPPOSED to make you invisible. Marcus, your future-fu is strong. Are you available for palm readings? I am sure powerful alliance leaders would like to retain your services to predict how the geopolitical landscape will change in the next few months. Trade tycoons as well!. Marcus, you are my friend. - Got grief? Revelations MySQL Database
Johnathan Roark Caldari Quantum Industries Prime Orbital Systems	Posted - 2007.01.19 16:28:00 - [19] It may not be an exploit, but its poor balance. There is not counter to find the alt. Its basically a tatic to shut down a system. Cloaker finds targets for hostile fleet or if its a recon may even come out and kill ships on occation. That would be the only chance you get to kill it. As far as doing this 23/7. Owner just logs the alt on right after downtime and goes to school, work, sleep, bar, food, etc. We had one of these when we had stations, but at least she would try and fight occationally and we came close to killing her a few times. Corporation Management Improvement
Beef Hardslab The 5 Amigo's LLC.	Posted - 2007.01.19 16:30:00 - [20] Edited by: Beef Hardslab on 19/01/2007 16:30:48 It's not an exploit and it's not griefing. It's how cloaks work. I do however believe that there should be a counter to it. I think the counter should involve sovereignty, ie if you have sov in the system the cloaked character is sitting, maybe have their cloak use more and more cap as the days go by while in your sovereign space. So for the first day, he can sit cloaked all day. The second day, his cloak is gonna run out after 6 hours or so. He can put cap batteries/rechargers on, but that will only extend his amount of time allowed to remain cloaked in an enemy system - sooner or later the penalties overcome any amount of cap recharge or capacitance. Then you could have POS modules that will increase the cloak decay rate. Why there should be a breathalyzer to login to Eve: Originally by: Alliaanna Dalaii Podding my own alt in a gatecamp while drunk, he was carrying a hauler full of tech II goods, Oops.

Plutoinum German Cyberdome Corp	Posted - 2007.01.19 16:30:00 - [21] Edited by: Plutoinum on 19/01/2007 16:27:47 Originally by: Vizranuh this is what it's supposed to be used for! Don't know if it's supposed to be used for afk-psychological warfare, while you are in bed or at work. That's why those covert ops are there 23/7: To disrupt any activity of ratters and miners. It has been done to us and I have done it myself to some farmers I wanted to get out of a system and it worked quite well. It's quite powerful and the question is if it's supposed to be that way. One proposal was to let the cloaking device use fuel. Btw. I thought that coverts were said to be probable in Kali, just that you still need to decloak them manually. Wonder what happened to that plan. ______________ need new sig
CharlieMurphy Amarr Viziam	Posted - 2007.01.19 16:34:00 - [22] cloaks shouldnt be probable imo it goes against the point of a cloak i like flying cloaked and the freedom it allows cloaks arnt the problem here its people that want to annoy so badly that they will keep their pc on 23/7
D'onryu Shoqui Vengeance of the Fallen Curse Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.19 16:37:00 - [23] they could add a fix like, the longer your cloaked the higher the signal strenght grows, so people cant just cloak and go afk for hours on end
Plutoinum German Cyberdome Corp	Posted - 2007.01.19 16:38:00 - [24] Edited by: Plutoinum on 19/01/2007 16:40:17 Originally by: CharlieMurphy cloaks shouldnt be probable imo it goes against the point of a cloak Well, if it took like half an hour and the warp-in wasn't so accurate, that you land already in decloak-range, then it might be quite effective to deal with afk-cloakers, without effecting normal use much. ______________ need new sig
Aelena Thraant Shadows of the Dead Aftermath Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.19 16:38:00 - [25] Yes cloaks need a counter.... I agree... Maybe a special scan prob that takes 20 minutes or so and has like a 1 au range. Not perfect but a counter. Now your situation is counterable. Have scouts in surrounding systems to make sure there isn't a gang to gank someone ratting... If it's a force recon... I would suggest ratting in groups. A long time ago my corporation was camped with a Carrier with a cloak and a Force Recon or 2. We just learned to adapt and it gave us some tactics that we used later. IMO Non Covert ops cloak should somehow should disengage after a set amount of time. That way if people are there then they can just recloak if they arn't then out goes the scan probes.
Marcus TheMartin Gallente Tuxedo.	Posted - 2007.01.19 16:43:00 - [26] Originally by: Andargor theWise Edited by: Andargor theWise on 19/01/2007 16:25:31 Originally by: Marcus TheMartin I've tried making this point so many times but every cloak junkie likes to respond simply with "good thats what they are meant to do blah blah" Originally by: ghoststalkertr They are meant to cloak and spy, yes i agree with that. Originally by: Niccolado Starwalker This is what cloaking where made for. Originally by: Aurel Senia its a cloak, its SUPPOSED to make you invisible. Originally by: Vizranuh this is what it's supposed to be used for! Marcus, your future-fu is strong. Are you available for palm readings? I am sure powerful alliance leaders would like to retain your services to predict how the geopolitical landscape will change in the next few months. Trade tycoons as well!. Marcus, you are my friend. Not so much a psychic as I am aware of the cookie cutter arguments used against various things Ex: Cloaks = No they are working as intended, Local = No we hate pirats, Logoffski = No we hate bubbles/honor jibba jabba/I ain't givin you ** jibba jabba DOWN WITH CTRL+Q!!!**
Eriv Kendri Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2007.01.19 16:44:00 - [27] Its the afk nature of the cloaker thats most annoying - perhaps you should be kicked from the server if you are afk for more than a certain time. That way someone has to be at least attendent. -------
Marcus TheMartin Gallente Tuxedo.	Posted - 2007.01.19 16:44:00 - [28] Originally by: Aelena Thraant Yes cloaks need a counter.... I agree... Maybe a special scan prob that takes 20 minutes or so and has like a 1 au range. Not perfect but a counter. Now your situation is counterable. Have scouts in surrounding systems to make sure there isn't a gang to gank someone ratting... If it's a force recon... I would suggest ratting in groups. A long time ago my corporation was camped with a Carrier with a cloak and a Force Recon or 2. We just learned to adapt and it gave us some tactics that we used later. IMO Non Covert ops cloak should somehow should disengage after a set amount of time. That way if people are there then they can just recloak if they arn't then out goes the scan probes. They could make a hot pocket and warp around in the time it takes to get them probed out DOWN WITH CTRL+Q!!!
Marcus TheMartin Gallente Tuxedo.	Posted - 2007.01.19 16:45:00 - [29] Originally by: Eriv Kendri Its the afk nature of the cloaker thats most annoying - perhaps you should be kicked from the server if you are afk for more than a certain time. That way someone has to be at least attendent. I like that too it would clear up alot of systems to be honest DOWN WITH CTRL+Q!!!
Rod Blaine Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.01.19 16:45:00 - [30] So, you've got a single claoked alt sitting in your system.... And that's an issue because of what exactly ? You don't feel safe ? OMG ! The answer is called puttin-an-alt/scout-of-your-own-in-nextdoor-systems-and-letting-all-friendlies-know-when-to-run-for-cover Ofc, you could also try to set a trap for him and his friends if the prior tactic doesn't help for some reason. I bet they wouldn't expect to scramble a single bs in a belt only to be jumped by a dozen others from a safespot 15 au away. Old blog Originally by: Vriezuh Naz: John is a realist

Marcus TheMartin Gallente Tuxedo.	Posted - 2007.01.19 16:53:00 - [31] Edited by: Marcus TheMartin on 19/01/2007 16:50:06 Originally by: Rod Blaine So, you've got a single claoked alt sitting in your system.... And that's an issue because of what exactly ? You don't feel safe ? OMG ! The answer is called puttin-an-alt/scout-of-your-own-in-nextdoor-systems-and-letting-all-friendlies-know-when-to-run-for-cover Ofc, you could also try to set a trap for him and his friends if the prior tactic doesn't help for some reason. I bet they wouldn't expect to scramble a single bs in a belt only to be jumped by a dozen others from a safespot 15 au away. Its not that he's there its the fact that he is there and your odds of being able to do something about it are one in a trillion DOWN WITH CTRL+Q!!!
Anaalys Fluuterby Caldari	Posted - 2007.01.19 17:12:00 - [32] IMO, this is one of the primary uses of a cloak; spying and causing worry about the fact a cloaked ship is out there. For "historical" proof of that I submit this (slightly editted) portion out of the original Klingon ship recognition guide (published some 18 years ago): "Of the 81 K22-Bs built one has been captured by the Federation, one has been destroyed and the remaining 79 are believed to be in active service, their where-abouts unknown." Cloaked ships are SUPPOSED to be invisible and unfound. <-----------> MMORPG == Massively Moronic Online Raw Powergaming Grief fests.... LowSec != NoSec
Cilppiz FinFleet Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2007.01.19 17:16:00 - [33] If one cloaked ship in your system is causing you this much problem you better get back to empire One cloaked ship hardly prevents you working on system. Just make sure that no hostile fleet gets too close wihtout notice (you are doing this anyway, right?) And keep your eyes open in local incase that cloaker is recon. Once he engages someone jump on him and kill him, loot hes cloaking device and wait him to come back with new one. Even better you could try to bait him.
Ozzie Asrail FATAL REVELATIONS FATAL Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.19 17:17:00 - [34] AFK cloakers sould be able to be found. something like a 30minute scan or i liked that idea above, longer they sit cloaked the higher their signal strength starts to grow. -----
Phrixus Zephyr D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.01.19 17:25:00 - [35] Where's the exploit in being cloaked? The definition is using a game mechanic not as intended to get an unfair advantage. Cloaking is not an exploit. Originally by: Ice Conch In soviet russia, soap drops you!
ghosttr Amarr Point-Zero Ratel Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.19 17:28:00 - [36] Originally by: Phrixus Zephyr Where's the exploit in being cloaked? The definition is using a game mechanic not as intended to get an unfair advantage. Cloaking is not an exploit. Being cloaked is not an exploit, and is just fine. Where is becomes a problem is when someone uses it to hide in a system 23/7 for a week or more. SUPPORT T2 FIX!
Akiman	Posted - 2007.01.19 17:35:00 - [37] this is lame and dishonest and boring. its not about having fun its about lust for winning. but its not an exploit.
Smagd Encina Technologies Namtz'aar k'in	Posted - 2007.01.19 17:37:00 - [38] Originally by: Anaalys Fluuterby For "historical" proof of that I submit this (slightly editted) portion out of the original Klingon ship recognition guide (published some 18 years ago): "Of the 81 K22-Bs built one has been captured by the Federation, one has been destroyed and the remaining 79 are believed to be in active service, their where-abouts unknown." Haha .. wait, was that sarcastic? You're trying to make your point with .. FICTION? Hold on, let me invent a counter-proof. It's gonna be good, I swear, 150% of all cloaked ships destroyed, half of them while still in the factory. Nah. Can't be bothered. Still had to laugh, thanks for that. I must say, I was under the impression that there's a scan probe to find cloaked ships, but apparently the idea was scratched eh? Oh btw, everybody who says "Cloakers will just warp off when something comes close", well there's gonna be a time when he's AFK asleep. Get him then. ATTACK, and crash: You lose. RUN, and crash: Why WIN?
Sean Dillon Caldari Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2007.01.19 17:42:00 - [39] If they cloak they can't kill you, so whats the problem exactly? He's just monitoring your activity and report to enemy, why dont you do the same with your enemy? But you dont think that far.
Marcus TheMartin Gallente Tuxedo.	Posted - 2007.01.19 17:48:00 - [40] Originally by: Sean Dillon If they cloak they can't kill you, so whats the problem exactly? He's just monitoring your activity and report to enemy, why dont you do the same with your enemy? But you dont think that far. The problem isn't oh they are spying on us lets spy back its the fact we want it to be oh they are spying on us lets destroy them and spy back. DOWN WITH CTRL+Q!!!

Deez Nuttzy	Posted - 2007.01.19 17:53:00 - [41] didn't read all of the threads but i did read 2/3 of them. Lets assume the sci-fi guys in CCP got the idea for cloaking technology from star trek. well they can be tracked too by adjusting their sensors and such bu its still hard to do. So a special scan probe that worked 33% of the time might resolve that issue. Star gate same thing almost every sci-fi show had had cloaking technology in it and eventually they still were found so there should be a way. now for real life ships and planes the US Navy and Air Force have stealth technology and we should all agree with that. That doesn't mean they are I WIN ship/planes cause there are counter measures that negate the stealth. passive radar for example - look it u - you'll see. i don't fly a cloaked ship yet, and I am not a pvp'r too - but to make a ship with out flaws is not human and last time i checked the 4 races are all human. CCP add something to be able to scan out a cloacked ship but just don't make it to easy So for this guy who is 23/7 and doesn't move then he will eventually get sanned and pwned but if he is truly moving around cloaked then it should be really tough to get him.
Marcus TheMartin Gallente Tuxedo.	Posted - 2007.01.19 17:55:00 - [42] Originally by: Deez Nuttzy didn't read all of the threads but i did read 2/3 of them. Lets assume the sci-fi guys in CCP got the idea for cloaking technology from star trek. well they can be tracked too by adjusting their sensors and such bu its still hard to do. So a special scan probe that worked 33% of the time might resolve that issue. Star gate same thing almost every sci-fi show had had cloaking technology in it and eventually they still were found so there should be a way. now for real life ships and planes the US Navy and Air Force have stealth technology and we should all agree with that. That doesn't mean they are I WIN ship/planes cause there are counter measures that negate the stealth. passive radar for example - look it u - you'll see. i don't fly a cloaked ship yet, and I am not a pvp'r too - but to make a ship with out flaws is not human and last time i checked the 4 races are all human. CCP add something to be able to scan out a cloacked ship but just don't make it to easy So for this guy who is 23/7 and doesn't move then he will eventually get sanned and pwned but if he is truly moving around cloaked then it should be really tough to get him. what about the 5th race? DOWN WITH CTRL+Q!!!
Ryysa North Face Force	Posted - 2007.01.19 18:07:00 - [43] You realize why the OP is whining right? He's carebearing in a system in 0.0. The moment he sees someone in local he warps to his POS. So he is safe, exploiting 0.0 with no risk. Now some people get tired of him doing that, so they take another account/character DEVOTED to making him paranoid. There's a very easy counter. IF someone has devoted a cloaked character to annoy him, he should be able to devote a character to sitting in the next door/probable system where hostiles might come from to kill him, once said cloaked alt finds him. Yet he is too lazy. He is a paranoid carebear who wants to play single player in eve and is crying because someone is intruding his "privacy" and he can't blob him to death. Well tough luck... adapt or die. I can't believe there are other people SERIOUSLY discussing whether this should be an exploit or not. Sure, let's remove EVERYTHING from this game that is slightly untraditional. Cloaks give heavy penalties already. WTS: Clue, T2 available. All about target jamming & The Logoffski guide
Gaunty Lunar Dawn Storm Armada	Posted - 2007.01.19 18:07:00 - [44] The problem is that there is no risk for the reward it gives. There has to be some sort of countermeasure even if its only a small chance. Whatever about one alt sitting there, thats no big deal but when 8-10 BS sit in a SS cloaked in system pretty much all day only to emerge to gank a ship or two. Then they go back to being cloaked again for a few hours until its quiet again with no big gangs to fight them. Wheres the solution to that? This post does not represent my corp, alliance or pet cat.
Ryysa North Face Force	Posted - 2007.01.19 18:10:00 - [45] Edited by: Ryysa on 19/01/2007 18:08:38 Originally by: Gaunty The problem is that there is no risk for the reward it gives. There has to be some sort of countermeasure even if its only a small chance. Whatever about one alt sitting there, thats no big deal but when 8-10 BS sit in a SS cloaked in system pretty much all day only to emerge to gank a ship or two. Then they go back to being cloaked again for a few hours until its quiet again with no big gangs to fight them. Wheres the solution to that? Highly unlikely, -40% penalty to targeting etc. And have you ever considered it's fairly boring to do this? I don't see how there is no risk. There is always risk in it, attacking etc, since you might get trapped or baited... In fact the ones who want to play without risk is the carebears whining that they can't OMGWARPTOPOSIWINBUTTON when someone they don't know enters local. To even use cloaks, you need electronics lvl5 etc. And if it's cloaked BS, they can't warp cloaked, so just use your scanner. If you see 8 BS on scanner warp out. I really don't want to make this personal, but just because CI is better than you at PvP tactics (they have been using said method for ages to clear out carebears from systems), you shouldn't be whining. If you are too paranoid to deal with 1 cloaked alt, you don't deserve to hold said 0.0 area. All about target jamming & The Logoffski guide
Deez Nuttzy	Posted - 2007.01.19 18:14:00 - [46] Originally by: Marcus TheMartin Originally by: Deez Nuttzy didn't read all of the threads but i did read 2/3 of them. Lets assume the sci-fi guys in CCP got the idea for cloaking technology from star trek. well they can be tracked too by adjusting their sensors and such bu its still hard to do. So a special scan probe that worked 33% of the time might resolve that issue. Star gate same thing almost every sci-fi show had had cloaking technology in it and eventually they still were found so there should be a way. now for real life ships and planes the US Navy and Air Force have stealth technology and we should all agree with that. That doesn't mean they are I WIN ship/planes cause there are counter measures that negate the stealth. passive radar for example - look it u - you'll see. i don't fly a cloaked ship yet, and I am not a pvp'r too - but to make a ship with out flaws is not human and last time i checked the 4 races are all human. CCP add something to be able to scan out a cloacked ship but just don't make it to easy So for this guy who is 23/7 and doesn't move then he will eventually get sanned and pwned but if he is truly moving around cloaked then it should be really tough to get him. what about the 5th race? crap i missed one. stupid stupid stupid
Ekscalybur	Posted - 2007.01.19 18:21:00 - [47] Originally by: Gaunty The problem is that there is no risk for the reward it gives. There has to be some sort of countermeasure even if its only a small chance. Whatever about one alt sitting there, thats no big deal but when 8-10 BS sit in a SS cloaked in system pretty much all day only to emerge to gank a ship or two. Then they go back to being cloaked again for a few hours until its quiet again with no big gangs to fight them. Wheres the solution to that? Reward? What reward is he getting? If its an alt like you said that isn't attended, he's gaining nothing. Except your aggravation. I'm a bit surprised though. 2 pages of complaining about a cloaked ship sitting invisible for 2 weeks. Doesn't it dawn on the OP that's he should consider himself lucky that he even knows their is a cloaked ship in local? I mean, 2 weeks without moving or saying anything, and the OP knows without a doubt that this alt is out there. Someone should let the OP know that the best kind of spying is when the subject being spyed on doesn't know he's being spied on.
Marcus TheMartin Gallente Tuxedo.	Posted - 2007.01.19 18:27:00 - [48] I'm still not seeing any reason that there shouldn't be a countermeasure to cloaking please come up with better arguments pro cloak lobby DOWN WITH CTRL+Q!!!
Strel Samodelkin Caldari	Posted - 2007.01.19 18:31:00 - [49] People need to think what the term exploit means. LOL!
Tryptasia	Posted - 2007.01.19 18:33:00 - [50] Not that anyone cares what i say but Isnt Local chat the problem here? Local chat is kinda stupid and takes away alot of the realism that makes the game cool. Gatecampers know when someone comes in and knows who it is?!? (Thats Stupid) Local is the problem and should not exist

Portios Smith Sanguine Legion	Posted - 2007.01.19 18:34:00 - [51] Originally by: Marcus TheMartin I'm still not seeing any reason that there shouldn't be a countermeasure to cloaking please come up with better arguments pro cloak lobby Cause WoW has one, is called flare. I would hate to see WoWish crap in EVE Sig removed does not contain your name, email [email protected] if you have any questions - Xorus
Kadarin Wolfenrecon Center for Disease Creation	Posted - 2007.01.19 18:39:00 - [52] Originally by: Rod Blaine So, you've got a single claoked alt sitting in your system.... And that's an issue because of what exactly ? You don't feel safe ? OMG ! The answer is called puttin-an-alt/scout-of-your-own-in-nextdoor-systems-and-letting-all-friendlies-know-when-to-run-for-cover Ofc, you could also try to set a trap for him and his friends if the prior tactic doesn't help for some reason. I bet they wouldn't expect to scramble a single bs in a belt only to be jumped by a dozen others from a safespot 15 au away. Agreed. Simple common sense, here.
Phiberoptick Gallente Rest in Pieces	Posted - 2007.01.19 18:39:00 - [53] why not just do the same to who ever is doing it to you?
Wendat Huron Lupus Industries	Posted - 2007.01.19 18:42:00 - [54] I'm thinking tech II Destroyers and depth charges.
ScreamingLord Sutch Hand in Mouth	Posted - 2007.01.19 19:04:00 - [55] You don't like it so clearly it's an exploit!
Audri Fisher Caldari The Keep THE R0CK	Posted - 2007.01.19 19:06:00 - [56] Originally by: Ekscalybur Originally by: Gaunty The problem is that there is no risk for the reward it gives. There has to be some sort of countermeasure even if its only a small chance. Whatever about one alt sitting there, thats no big deal but when 8-10 BS sit in a SS cloaked in system pretty much all day only to emerge to gank a ship or two. Then they go back to being cloaked again for a few hours until its quiet again with no big gangs to fight them. Wheres the solution to that? Reward? What reward is he getting? If its an alt like you said that isn't attended, he's gaining nothing. Except your aggravation. I'm a bit surprised though. 2 pages of complaining about a cloaked ship sitting invisible for 2 weeks. Doesn't it dawn on the OP that's he should consider himself lucky that he even knows their is a cloaked ship in local? I mean, 2 weeks without moving or saying anything, and the OP knows without a doubt that this alt is out there. Someone should let the OP know that the best kind of spying is when the subject being spied on doesn't know he's being spied on. The cloaked alt is not spying, he is just there for psychological warfare. If he didn't know the guy was out there, then it would not have it's intended effect.
ghoststalkertr	Posted - 2007.01.19 19:07:00 - [57] The cloak should not be an "I win" button in 0.0, and thats exactly what it is. There should be a countermeasure to find cloaked ships.
Lucifer Fellblade Ore Mongers SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.19 19:11:00 - [58] Originally by: ghoststalkertr The cloak should not be an "I win" button in 0.0, and thats exactly what it is. There should be a countermeasure to find cloaked ships. Agreed 100,000%. ------
Nicocat Caldari New Age Solutions	Posted - 2007.01.19 19:25:00 - [59] The whine that cloaking = exploit is the worst whine ever. Whoever said it, please kindly stfu. However, CCP does agree that cloaking is unbalanced. Remember, they were gonna implement probing of cloaked ships in Kali. They didn't, and that's not surprising, but they thought about it. ---------------------------- Originally by: Splagada SEED ME DADDY WTB: Friggin' portrait
Spy4Hire	Posted - 2007.01.19 19:34:00 - [60] Edited by: Spy4Hire on 19/01/2007 19:35:06 There does need to be some way to counter cloaks, especially those annoying dweebites that just sit there doing nothing (not eveng gathering intelligence) loggied in 23/7. Yes, I have seen this... which means that the account holder is just leaving that client open then going to work, or sleep, or what have you. So they can't be gathering any sort of intelligence, and are only meant to annoy. That, to my knowledge, is acknowledged as a petitionable offence (griefing or exploit or what have you) Now... how to counter cloakers? There needs to be several ways: POS module: EM pulse wave generator. Sends out an active energy 'ping' through the entire system, decloaking any and all cloaked vessels for 10 minutes. This is considered a hostile act in systems where the POS does not have soverignty (empire, et al). This also vastly increases the signature radius of any ship fitting a cloak making them easier to locate. It takes an hour to cycle back up and requires fuel of some sort. Ship module: High slot pulse wave generator. Much like the POS module, sends out an active energy pulse that decloaks ships within its radius. Use of this module is not considered a hostile act. Base range is 75km +25km/level of covert ops skill. Energy drain is moderate, duration 30 seconds. Decloaked ships will have to leave the field to re-cloak but suffer no recalibration delays other than normal. Ship module: Passive phase inversion sensor. Medium slot, can only be used on a ship with a covert ops cloak fitted and active. In other words, this module can only be used while under cloak. Range is unlimited, and seeks out the energy 'void' created by cloaked ships, allowing the pilot to visually see them. They will appear on the overview but without any range/velocity indicators, only shiptype/pilot name. It will be up to the covert ops pilot to visually locate the vessel indicator and direct their allies toward it.

ghosttr Amarr Point-Zero Ratel Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.19 19:41:00 - [61] Originally by: Nicocat The whine that cloaking = exploit is the worst whine ever. Whoever said it, please kindly stfu. However, CCP does agree that cloaking is unbalanced. Remember, they were gonna implement probing of cloaked ships in Kali. They didn't, and that's not surprising, but they thought about it. From Scams & Exploits http://support.eve-online.com/Pages/KB/Article.aspx?id=34 Quote: An exploit is when someone bypasses normal game mechanics, such as by utilizing a bug in the game, allowing him to take advantage of other players without them having any means of preventing it whatsoever Under eves terms it could quailfy as an exploit, especially if he knows hes doing it, and does it on purpose. becuase it allows him to take advantage of other players without them having any means of preventing it whatsoever. SUPPORT T2 FIX!
Cordelia Simonova Privateers Privateer Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.19 19:48:00 - [62] The moment cloaks can be found by scans is the moment cloaks become useless. The sole reason for having them is removed. Cloaks and cloaked ships have enough problems as it is. Anyone who knows how to fly cloaked ships know how tricky they are to keep alive, how difficult they are to fit effectively and easy they are to detect.
ghosttr Amarr Point-Zero Ratel Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.19 19:54:00 - [63] Originally by: Cordelia Simonova The moment cloaks can be found by scans is the moment cloaks become useless. The sole reason for having them is removed. Cloaks and cloaked ships have enough problems as it is. Anyone who knows how to fly cloaked ships know how tricky they are to keep alive, how difficult they are to fit effectively and easy they are to detect. you = wartarget hope to see you in a pod soon. Cloaks should be completely viable for operations, im not saying nerf the cloak, but it should not be an 'i win' button for someone to sit an alt in the middle of a target system, and have no chance of being found. It should be made so that it is either an exploit, or the cloak becomes weaker over time, or rquires fuel or somthing along that route SUPPORT T2 FIX!
Marcus TheMartin Gallente Tuxedo.	Posted - 2007.01.19 19:57:00 - [64] Originally by: Cordelia Simonova The moment cloaks can be found by scans is the moment cloaks become useless. The sole reason for having them is removed. Cloaks and cloaked ships have enough problems as it is. Anyone who knows how to fly cloaked ships know how tricky they are to keep alive, how difficult they are to fit effectively and easy they are to detect. Warp to a moon with a cloak on from some random location and stay there for 30 days and see how long it takes for you to get found. Well known fact: most facts aren't well known
SerialTurd	Posted - 2007.01.19 20:00:00 - [65] Originally by: ghoststalkertr Originally by: Aurel Senia Originally by: ghosttr putting a cloaked alt in a system 23/7 for 2 weeks should be an exploit. Why should it be an exploit? because its using something to gain an unfair advantage. how would you like it if i put a cloaked alt in your system 23/7 for 2 weeks?, ofc you can get a fleet up but the sob stays cload and cannot be found. But it's using the games built in mechanins. He's not bending any rules or using something exploit... that's like saying were at war with a corp and they just recruited a whole 30 other people into their corp, it's an exploit!!!!! So if he's sitting in your system... tough luck, though I do agree there should be something to combat cloacked ships, such as the destroyer.
Xaintrix Revolution. The Shadow Ascension	Posted - 2007.01.19 20:09:00 - [66] While not an exploit, I'd like to see them put more use into the Destroyer class by having them be much like they are in today's navy: Sub Hunters. They're made for taking on frigs, or should be at least. Might as well give it another niche function.
ghosttr Amarr Point-Zero Ratel Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.19 20:10:00 - [67] Originally by: SerialTurd Originally by: ghoststalkertr Originally by: Aurel Senia Originally by: ghosttr putting a cloaked alt in a system 23/7 for 2 weeks should be an exploit. Why should it be an exploit? because its using something to gain an unfair advantage. how would you like it if i put a cloaked alt in your system 23/7 for 2 weeks?, ofc you can get a fleet up but the sob stays cload and cannot be found. But it's using the games built in mechanins. He's not bending any rules or using something exploit... that's like saying were at war with a corp and they just recruited a whole 30 other people into their corp, it's an exploit!!!!! So if he's sitting in your system... tough luck, though I do agree there should be something to combat cloacked ships, such as the destroyer. That would not be an exploit because you have a way to counter it, there is no way to find a cloaked ship at a ss, or even a 200km bm for that matter. In that case a counter would be to get more people, use alts, or give up and die. But anyways its completely irrelevant. [quuote]An exploit is when someone bypasses normal game mechanics, such as by utilizing a bug in the game, allowing him to take advantage of other players without them having any means of preventing it whatsoever. You bypass the game mechanics by using it for extened periods of time, the big is not being able to detect after an amount of time, or at all. And it allows him (or those hes affiliated with) to take advantage of other players without them having any means of preventing it whatsoever. Also the offending sob has been petitioned, and i have a case with the gms, due to the time it has been used by the perpetrator. SUPPORT T2 FIX!
James Snowscoran Coreli Corporation Corelum Syndicate	Posted - 2007.01.19 20:13:00 - [68] It's not an exploit but it's still stupid. There should be a way to find the ships if they're afk, that is avoidable if they are by the computer paying attention. One way is to make the cloaking device use inexpensive fuel that has to be reloaded into the device from time to time, kinda like a cap injector. If noone's there to turn the cloak on again after it finishes reloading the ship stays uncloaked. -----
Marcus TheMartin Gallente Tuxedo.	Posted - 2007.01.19 20:17:00 - [69] Originally by: James Snowscoran It's not an exploit but it's still stupid. There should be a way to find the ships if they're afk, that is avoidable if they are by the computer paying attention. One way is to make the cloaking device use inexpensive fuel that has to be reloaded into the device from time to time, kinda like a cap injector. If noone's there to turn the cloak on again after it finishes reloading the ship stays uncloaked. I am all for the fuel. THE FUEL!!!! Well known fact: most facts aren't well known
Turin Caldari RONA Deepspace Rule of Three	Posted - 2007.01.19 20:18:00 - [70] I think the easiest solution would be this. Inactivity timers. If you dont hit a key into EVE in say. 1 hour, your disconnected. This does two thingas. Gets rid of the annoying AFK cloaker, whos only there to **** you off. Cuts un needed connectins, thus improving lag and game quality. ________________________________________________________

Marcus TheMartin Gallente Tuxedo.	Posted - 2007.01.19 20:20:00 - [71] Originally by: Turin I think the easiest solution would be this. Inactivity timers. If you dont hit a key into EVE in say. 1 hour, your disconnected. This does two thingas. Gets rid of the annoying AFK cloaker, whos only there to **** you off. Cuts un needed connectins, thus improving lag and game quality. You forgot to add a countermeasure to cloaks Well known fact: most facts aren't well known
Bawldeux IV Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2007.01.19 20:23:00 - [72] cloaking is not an exploit staying in a system cloaked to spy on anyone is not an exploit a covops ship is a poor poor poor POOR pvp ship, so it in itself has no advantage over your cepters, BC's....heck, it would have a tough time popping a pod as was already posted before, use your own spies in connected systems to warn you of the incoming gank squads. there RA, now stop whining...
Bawldeux IV Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2007.01.19 20:25:00 - [73] Originally by: Turin I think the easiest solution would be this. Inactivity timers. If you dont hit a key into EVE in say. 1 hour, your disconnected. This does two thingas. Gets rid of the annoying AFK cloaker, whos only there to **** you off. Cuts un needed connectins, thus improving lag and game quality. honestly, this is a great idea, regardless of this thread.
Mar Idoun Aurora Empire Fuzzy Nut Attack Squirrels	Posted - 2007.01.19 20:30:00 - [74] if you look into a database there is currently an unseeded cloak busting mod. Some kind of burst, i'll look for it, curretnyl can't remember where i saw it.
Marcus TheMartin Gallente Tuxedo.	Posted - 2007.01.19 20:30:00 - [75] Originally by: Bawldeux IV cloaking is not an exploit staying in a system cloaked to spy on anyone is not an exploit a covops ship is a poor poor poor POOR pvp ship, so it in itself has no advantage over your cepters, BC's....heck, it would have a tough time popping a pod as was already posted before, use your own spies in connected systems to warn you of the incoming gank squads. there RA, now stop whining... yes we know but it still needs a countermeasure Well known fact: most facts aren't well known
Eralus	Posted - 2007.01.19 20:36:00 - [76] Edited by: Eralus on 19/01/2007 20:33:46 So I got a question... If there's an AFK char sitting in your system that you can't find... WHO CARES?! Actually, I think it's kinda funny. It's a way to nerf local. Just sit there AFK And cloaked all the time, so your 'not being there' state is the same as your 'being there' state; i.e., the people in the system don't know if you're REALLY there or not. I don't think there should necessarily be a COUNTER to cloaks, but there should be some, say, enhanced negative. Possible options: Anti-cloak bubble/field. Good for a full grid. Doesn't actually decloak anyone, but makes cloaks burn 50, 100, 200% more cap. That way you can keep people from indefinitely camping a grid with a gate or station without putting some effort/expense into it. Anti-cloak drone control unit. High-slot device that causes your drones to fly around in a 3-D search pattern around your ship. Drone gets within 1000,2000,2500 meters of a cloaked ship and it gets decloaked. Maybe you need special anti-cloaking drones to do this, and they're really slow. Cloak-detection bubble/field. Won't actually decloak anyone, but will tell you if there is a cloaked ship within the bubble/field. That way you could set one up on a gate in your sovereign systems so you'd at least know if cloaked ships were going in/out. You'll note that none of these suggestions involves an easy way to insta-decloak someone. They just nudge the cloak balance a LITTLE BIT away from the cloaker. And those things are put in, I'd say let cloaked pilots NOT appear in Local. If you want to know if a cloaked pilot is in your system, set up the fields you need to detect that they're there. _____ Lifewire is a big, ugly, mean... carebear.
Eralus	Posted - 2007.01.19 20:38:00 - [77] Also, maybe you need special anti-cloak drones to do the 3D grid search, and the drones are very slow. _____ Lifewire is a big, ugly, mean... carebear.
Eralus	Posted - 2007.01.19 20:40:00 - [78] Originally by: Bawldeux IV Originally by: Turin I think the easiest solution would be this. Inactivity timers. If you dont hit a key into EVE in say. 1 hour, your disconnected. This does two thingas. Gets rid of the annoying AFK cloaker, whos only there to **** you off. Cuts un needed connectins, thus improving lag and game quality. honestly, this is a great idea, regardless of this thread. Won't work on getting rid of cloakers. They'll just install keep-alive programs. Might help with performance a bit though, but I don't think CCP really wants to deflate their 'connected players' number. _____ Lifewire is a big, ugly, mean... carebear.
Falcione Mortis Angelus Curse Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.19 20:57:00 - [79] Originally by: Turin I think the easiest solution would be this. Inactivity timers. If you dont hit a key into EVE in say. 1 hour, your disconnected. That happens to me already... I usually have to talk to someone in corp or local to stay connected. I thought this was a standard feature already. Or is it a "feature"? ----------- My Bio in Progress Prologue / CH.1
Marcus TheMartin Gallente Tuxedo.	Posted - 2007.01.19 20:57:00 - [80] Originally by: Falcione Originally by: Turin I think the easiest solution would be this. Inactivity timers. If you dont hit a key into EVE in say. 1 hour, your disconnected. That happens to me already... I usually have to talk to someone in corp or local to stay connected. I thought this was a standard feature already. Or is it a "feature"? Its not a defect its a feature! Well known fact: most facts aren't well known

Sagnius	Posted - 2007.01.19 21:23:00 - [81] ok, here is your counter measure to cloaked ships in local DONT LET THEM IN TO START WITH!!! why did you let a hostile into 'your' system in the first place? didnt you defend your gates etc...????? didnt you know someone was heading your way and set up dictors and such to catch him on the way in? and, has he actually done anything while he been there?
Zyrla Bladestorm Minmatar Foundation R0ADKILL	Posted - 2007.01.19 21:26:00 - [82] I've seen it done with about a dozen characters spread across a couple of systems, a carrier seemingly carrying half a dozen hacs, half a dozen recon cruisers and finally the rest in covert ops (ready to switch to the hacs) not really anything you can do about it, you tended to not even know they'd decided to come back from afk till they'd already ganked someone. They kept it up for a couple of weeks in the end. Exploit ? definetely not, somewhat impressive show of dedication? yep. But pretty frustrating all the same since the only "defence" vs it involves hacing a bunch of people spend 23/7 awake and staring into space where the cloaker barely spends any time at all. . ----- It's great being Minmatar, ain't it? Apologies for any rambling that may have just occurred.
hotgirl933	Posted - 2007.01.19 21:27:00 - [83] CCP were going to allow covert ops scanning ships a very minute chance of finding cloaked ships it would take an hour or two but would mean cloaked ships needed to keep moving or be active this hasnt happened in kali and is a big disappointment because of it
Jezala Mom 'n' Pop Ammo Shoppe X-PACT	Posted - 2007.01.19 21:37:00 - [84] Edited by: Jezala on 19/01/2007 21:40:19 I am completely baffled at how some people can insist on claiming that a covert ops ship, cloaked in a system, with little to no weaponry, who does nothing but sit in a system can pose such a magnificent threat to a 10-ship fleet such that it is considered to be an "I Win" button. HUH?? Explain to me again what's so threatening about a cloaked ship that for all intents and purposes can't shoot back. And how exactly does the cloaked ship "win"? Originally by: Zyrla Bladestorm Exploit ? definetely not, somewhat impressive show of dedication? yep. But pretty frustrating all the same since the only "defence" vs it involves hacing a bunch of people spend 23/7 awake and staring into space where the cloaker barely spends any time at all. The hell do you need a defense for? What's the helios going to do, scram and ransom your freighter? Christ, if RATEL is going to be such a wimp over a single cloaked ship that literally does nothing but sit in system then I should go pay a visit to their home systems. ...and yes, we do sell and deliver ammo. 425 Express Delivery is available upon request, please see Hans Gates and Marcus Grisbius regarding this option.
Marcus TheMartin Gallente Tuxedo.	Posted - 2007.01.19 21:53:00 - [85] Originally by: Jezala Edited by: Jezala on 19/01/2007 21:40:19 I am completely baffled at how some people can insist on claiming that a covert ops ship, cloaked in a system, with little to no weaponry, who does nothing but sit in a system can pose such a magnificent threat to a 10-ship fleet such that it is considered to be an "I Win" button. HUH?? Explain to me again what's so threatening about a cloaked ship that for all intents and purposes can't shoot back. And how exactly does the cloaked ship "win"? Originally by: Zyrla Bladestorm Exploit ? definetely not, somewhat impressive show of dedication? yep. But pretty frustrating all the same since the only "defence" vs it involves hacing a bunch of people spend 23/7 awake and staring into space where the cloaker barely spends any time at all. The hell do you need a defense for? What's the helios going to do, scram and ransom your freighter? Christ, if RATEL is going to be such a wimp over a single cloaked ship that literally does nothing but sit in system then I should go pay a visit to their home systems. Consider why do people but spies in alliance now consider why would people want eyes in your systems. And virtually nothing can be done to poke those eyes out Well known fact: most facts aren't well known
AKULA UrQuan Caldari STK Scientific	Posted - 2007.01.19 21:57:00 - [86] even if it was possible to probe for a cloaked covert getting inside 2km to decloak one may prove easier said than done.
Princess Jodi	Posted - 2007.01.19 23:02:00 - [87] The reason that sitting in a system cloaked is such a problem is that it prevents any Mining or Ratting being done in the system. I saw this first-hand when we were fighting RA in N7- system: RA had a cloaked covert ops ship there for months, and occasionally they would follow up on intel it gave with a fleet to gank miners. I have no problem with an ACTIVE cloaked ship spying on us, but the fact was that this guy was there 23/7 for months. He was sitting in a 600-AU safespot, and the only chance to ever get him was when he reloged after downtime. I must say, that single ship was more effective in disrupting operations than all the fleets I've ever battled. We tried things like having our own scouts in adjacent systems to provide warning of incomming fleets, but the cloaker also had off-grid ships with cynos available to them, so a fleet could just be jumped on top of us. All I ask is some form of counter for this type of activity. I don't think that Cloaked ships should be scannable, but there must be some way to fight back. Fuel usage would be good. Maybee force a logoff of any character that doesn't click a mouse for an hour. Please, CCP, give us some hope on this issue.
Matrix Aran Legio Immortalis	Posted - 2007.01.19 23:08:00 - [88] Originally by: ghoststalkertr Originally by: Aurel Senia Originally by: ghosttr putting a cloaked alt in a system 23/7 for 2 weeks should be an exploit. Why should it be an exploit? because its using something to gain an unfair advantage. how would you like it if i put a cloaked alt in your system 23/7 for 2 weeks?, ofc you can get a fleet up but the sob stays cload and cannot be found. Well go ahead and put one in my home system. You and the other tree can keep eachother company. It's not like we're watching you having sex or anything. Its not an unfair advantage if everyone can do it if they're determined enough. ----
Amerame Section XIII	Posted - 2007.01.19 23:10:00 - [89] Originally by: CharlieMurphy your not really suggesting its done for any other reason than to annoy the locals and prevent them from playing business as usual? Poor unorganised and defenseless carebear, please die.
Forum Troll	Posted - 2007.01.19 23:25:00 - [90] Cloaking is Rock, everything else is Scissors. Make a way to counter cloaking.

Ghoest	Posted - 2007.01.19 23:35:00 - [91] Its no more an exploit that doing anything else in game with an alt as proxy for your main(building, trading, farming). Its unfortunate that we have alts in EVE, but its why to late to complain so deal with it. Wherever you went - here you are.
Blue Pixie	Posted - 2007.01.19 23:53:00 - [92] NERF SHAMAN!
RoMUF Minmatar Satal's Legion Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.01.20 00:18:00 - [93] How about this: When you cloak at teh same spot for 2 to 4 hours the field it generates become scannable by probes. Thats 2 to 4 hours of unattended cloaking.. should be enough. The cloakers can easily move to another spot so they still work as intended and the anti-cloakers can work hard (sit in system scanning 2 to 4 hours) to find those who can pay a 2nd account (wich should be illigal but that another story). Satal's Legion is recruiting. Contact me or Kyranor Rett for questions or join the channel "Satal's Legion"
HankMurphy Pelennor Swarm Eternal Rangers of Terror	Posted - 2007.01.20 00:44:00 - [94] while it may seem lame to paranoid carebears, wtf!? its a covert ship!!! you miss the point of eve entirely if you think you its an EXPLOIT (well, you atleast dont understand the word exploit) its kinda dumb, not something i would bother myself to do, but hell, ppl do it. Whats his name? BlueFlame? the xelas dood that sits in yz- for his whole life cloaked? Some one in here said, its not cloaks that are the issue, its local. That is a pretty good take on things. If you didn't see his name in local, you wouldn't even know to begin w/. Get rid of local then? Nah, eve is more built around local channel than ppl realize. It wouldn't be even close to the same game w/o local. i dont think thats really an option. So, is there a middle ground here? I like to think in eve there is a counter to every tactic, no matter how involved or complicated. So, while i support a covert ops' ability to stay cloaked his whole life 280km off a gate spying, there should be SOME way to find that pilot if he's just stupidly sitting there afk. I dont have a solution... but basically it should involve an expensive module, a LOT of time and the covt ops pilot would have to literally be retard afk and not move his ship for large blocks of time for him to be discovered. Make it NEARLY impossible to find them, but if it really is some douche just sitting there afk, why not make it possible to find him? He's not actually spying, nor is he actually playing the game.
Blue Pixie	Posted - 2007.01.20 02:01:00 - [95] What's the whole point of Covert Ops... heck, cloak in general... if you can't do this? You may as well say you don't like turrets ù 'cause they do damage ù and call it griefing or an exploit.
Marcus TheMartin Gallente Tuxedo.	Posted - 2007.01.20 02:20:00 - [96] Originally by: Blue Pixie What's the whole point of Covert Ops... heck, cloak in general... if you can't do this? You may as well say you don't like turrets ù 'cause they do damage ù and call it griefing or an exploit. Turrets have counters you can get out of range, fly faster than their rotation speed, tracking disrupt them. Cloaks all you have is to get within 2.5km and thats incredibly small compared to the systems that can be 158 A.U in diameter Well known fact: most facts aren't well known
Patch86 Di-Tron Heavy Industries Freelancer Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.20 02:23:00 - [97] I love ghosttr threads. Makes me giggle -----------------------------------------------
Blue Pixie	Posted - 2007.01.20 02:57:00 - [98] Originally by: Marcus TheMartin Turrets have counters you can get out of range, fly faster than their rotation speed, tracking disrupt them. Cloaks all you have is to get within 2.5km and thats incredibly small compared to the systems that can be 158 A.U in diameter And what exactly can you do while cloaked? Not a damn thing... except spy. That's it. You can't even reload ammo. Hell, with the exception of one type of frigate and one type of cruiser, you can't even warp. You're arguing that the only thing Covert Ops is good for is griefing and/or an exploit. Don't you think that's just a wee bit ridiculous?
Blue Pixie	Posted - 2007.01.20 02:57:00 - [99] Originally by: Marcus TheMartin Turrets have counters you can get out of range, fly faster than their rotation speed, tracking disrupt them. Cloaks all you have is to get within 2.5km and thats incredibly small compared to the systems that can be 158 A.U in diameter And what exactly can you do while cloaked? Not a damn thing... except spy. That's it. You can't even reload ammo. Hell, with the exception of one type of frigate and one type of cruiser, you can't even warp. You're arguing that the only thing Covert Ops is good for is griefing and/or an exploit. Don't you think that's just a wee bit ridiculous?
Mirirar Caldari Solstice Systems Development Concourse	Posted - 2007.01.20 02:59:00 - [100] Please go back to whatever MMO you came from.

Mirirar Caldari Solstice Systems Development Concourse	Posted - 2007.01.20 02:59:00 - [101] Please go back to whatever MMO you came from.
Feng Schui Minmatar Republic Military School	Posted - 2007.01.20 03:42:00 - [102] this thread seems interesting, and i admit, i didn't read it all the way through (but i will!) i actually had to check the date on it, to make sure it wasn't a dead horse being beaten again you DO know that you can probe out cloaked ships now.. right?
RtoZ	Posted - 2007.01.20 03:43:00 - [103] Maybe these people died at their keyboard and the electricity company just hasn't cut the power to their houses yet. Was there a smell of rotting flesh by any chance?
R3dSh1ft Caldari FIRMA Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.01.20 04:11:00 - [104] Cloaked ships are meant to be scannable, the only reason they arent is because CCP havent got it working yet. Keep petitioning, its borderline exploit. ______________________________________
sartorii Genco Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.01.20 04:50:00 - [105] Edited by: sartorii on 20/01/2007 04:50:35 For systems that have Sov there should be a DF (direction finding) module (possibly requiring fuel use)for POS that allow a designated Fleet Lead to warp to the point. Once the Error Ellipse is small enough there should be some sort of timer while the POS slowly acquires the cloaked ship, until they achieve lock.. the more POS (over 3)running DF modules (actively searching) the faster the lock.. ie 1 POS gives you a LOB (Line of Bearing) 2 will give a Cut, 3 a Fix. The longer the target remains stationary the more accurate the Fix should be (decreasing Error Ellipse) This allows ACTIVE cloaked ships to remain undetected by continually changing position (and restarting the POS DF process) but will prevent AFK cloakers from being undetectable. It also means an Alliance must invest enough time, energy and effort to secure Sov in the systems they wish to deploy the DF system. So 'contested' systems would still be 'free roaming' for the AFK lurkers. edit:tbh the only thing SOLO cloakers prevent is peace of mind for 0.0 Carebearing activities... Gang up, use large enough defensive gangs to prevent even a recon from being a threat and have a warning system at choke points around the system you are in.. Teamwork>solo everytime. however you shouldnt be able to sit afk cloaked for ages without risk either.. it breaks the spirit of active play. *To Bad Ignorance isnt Painful*
Bubba Fett	Posted - 2007.01.20 05:08:00 - [106] Originally by: ghoststalkertr Originally by: Aurel Senia Originally by: ghosttr putting a cloaked alt in a system 23/7 for 2 weeks should be an exploit. Why should it be an exploit? because its using something to gain an unfair advantage. how would you like it if i put a cloaked alt in your system 23/7 for 2 weeks?, ofc you can get a fleet up but the sob stays cload and cannot be found. So your complaint is that you can't take a fleet of ships and smash a single ship and that's not fair to you? You may not be master of your domain, but you're certainly a master of irony. LOL
Master Han Order of Endruring Marshalls	Posted - 2007.01.20 05:24:00 - [107] I know, lets make more modules/skills to fight this. A module that takes 2k cap and uncloaks all ships w/in 100k and prevents cloaking for 5 seconds. The recharge should be about 5 minutes though. And then skills to affect it.
deathforge The Accursed	Posted - 2007.01.20 05:34:00 - [108] Originally by: ghoststalkertr because its using something to gain an unfair advantage. how would you like it if i put a cloaked alt in your system 23/7 for 2 weeks?, ofc you can get a fleet up but the sob stays cload and cannot be found. Excellent point! I got jammed by an ECM ship the other day, totally unfair because I couldnt stop the jam once it had begun. How would you like it if I jammed YOU? Jammers are exploits!!!11one@ Low skillpoint rifter video: Linkage
Siriyana Astrum Contract Services Group	Posted - 2007.01.20 06:05:00 - [109] Cloaking isn't an exploit. There is an easy counter to keeping a cloaked alt spy out of your system.... Don't let him get in there in the first place. Wait. Don't have enough people to prevent that? Then you don't really control that area of space. :) ----- CEO, Astrum Contract Services Group
Cristopher Pleary Gallente Federal Navy Academy	Posted - 2007.01.20 07:22:00 - [110] Saying that cloaking is an exploit because it is an imbalance, or that cannot be countered. Thats kind of funny to mention the fact that there is warp bubbles that fall in the same category. They are what they are a fitting for you to use or anyone to use. Each fitting has a role to trump another fitting. Thats why I love eve. If they feel like wasting their time its on them. But me thinks that the reason they put that person there is working. I think you are growing paranoid Dont let it get to you. Take a chill pill :)

Pokerface	Posted - 2007.01.20 07:23:00 - [111] Yea.. lets destroy yet another working item!(system(the way it works)) FFS! cut the damn whining here and in all others places! at the end you will make a game not fun to play because of 5000 module's with a wrong description and so on! like scanners, EW, etc. etc. Scanners fx. work in some systems and if they work you cant scan richpeoplesmissionminingheaven! now thats is an exploit! a 100%safespot provided by the game/mechanics is fubar! First! If your enemys can do it, so can YOU! second! If your not smart enough to lure your enemy, well then you are not supposed too. Move system! emty it! now for how long do you think he will stay in an emty system? and here comes all the counter you need for killing an paperthin ship! Third! If you not prepared for change of playstyle when enemys nearby, go find another game! dont go on the forums saying omg exploitgriefexploit we need to change this and that! when its yourself thats needs changing! This is/was a game for people with an brain! so wake it up and find ingame workarounds! We got enough bad nefing as it is! now we need to nerf bad people! Get back to wow!
Mecinia Lua Galactic Express	Posted - 2007.01.20 08:03:00 - [112] Originally by: Wendat Huron I'm thinking tech II Destroyers and depth charges. This is a good idea :). Wouldn't have to be tech II either, maybe a tier II Destroyer that is a minelayer. Give us some use for those mine BPOs. I think that would be an effective counter :). Another person earlier had a good idea too a special type of probe that can detect a cloaked ship, like the one that found General Chang in Star Trek. I thought of another example too, the tachyon web that Picard made to detect the Romulans that one time. It would require special equipment though like the other ones. (While we are on the subject of things without a counter we need a counter for warp disruption probes and warp bubbles as well.) Galactic Express Recruitment Post
Aphotic Raven Gallente E X O D U S Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2007.01.20 08:46:00 - [113] It is truely the carebear/wimp in eve players that pushes them toward training cloaking. They might not even know it but its their inner noob saying "we can hide from our enemies, they wont be able to fight us! we can rat and mine all day and then just cloak!! its great being caldari isnt it?!"
Blue Pixie	Posted - 2007.01.20 09:29:00 - [114] Originally by: Aphotic Raven Edited by: Aphotic Raven on 20/01/2007 09:03:17 It is truely the carebear/wimp in eve players that pushes them toward training cloaking. Yeah, let's not forget those who fit shield extenders and armor plating. What a bunch of pansies.
Verite Rendition Caldari AUS Corporation CORE.	Posted - 2007.01.20 09:44:00 - [115] Originally by: sartorii Edited by: sartorii on 20/01/2007 04:50:35 For systems that have Sov there should be a DF (direction finding) module (possibly requiring fuel use)for POS that allow a designated Fleet Lead to warp to the point. Once the Error Ellipse is small enough there should be some sort of timer while the POS slowly acquires the cloaked ship, until they achieve lock.. the more POS (over 3)running DF modules (actively searching) the faster the lock.. ie 1 POS gives you a LOB (Line of Bearing) 2 will give a Cut, 3 a Fix. The longer the target remains stationary the more accurate the Fix should be (decreasing Error Ellipse) This allows ACTIVE cloaked ships to remain undetected by continually changing position (and restarting the POS DF process) but will prevent AFK cloakers from being undetectable. It also means an Alliance must invest enough time, energy and effort to secure Sov in the systems they wish to deploy the DF system. So 'contested' systems would still be 'free roaming' for the AFK lurkers. edit:tbh the only thing SOLO cloakers prevent is peace of mind for 0.0 Carebearing activities... Gang up, use large enough defensive gangs to prevent even a recon from being a threat and have a warning system at choke points around the system you are in.. Teamwork>solo everytime. however you shouldnt be able to sit afk cloaked for ages without risk either.. it breaks the spirit of active play. And what about ships that go AFK while their throttle is at full. I've already had this problem catching a max-speed Crow because we couldn't put together a ship fast enough to catch up, never mind a ship you can't even see. ---- AUS Corp Lead Megalomanic
Awox Infinitus Odium Curse Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.20 10:43:00 - [116] Originally by: Verite Rendition Originally by: sartorii Edited by: sartorii on 20/01/2007 04:50:35 For systems that have Sov there should be a DF (direction finding) module (possibly requiring fuel use)for POS that allow a designated Fleet Lead to warp to the point. Once the Error Ellipse is small enough there should be some sort of timer while the POS slowly acquires the cloaked ship, until they achieve lock.. the more POS (over 3)running DF modules (actively searching) the faster the lock.. ie 1 POS gives you a LOB (Line of Bearing) 2 will give a Cut, 3 a Fix. The longer the target remains stationary the more accurate the Fix should be (decreasing Error Ellipse) This allows ACTIVE cloaked ships to remain undetected by continually changing position (and restarting the POS DF process) but will prevent AFK cloakers from being undetectable. It also means an Alliance must invest enough time, energy and effort to secure Sov in the systems they wish to deploy the DF system. So 'contested' systems would still be 'free roaming' for the AFK lurkers. edit:tbh the only thing SOLO cloakers prevent is peace of mind for 0.0 Carebearing activities... Gang up, use large enough defensive gangs to prevent even a recon from being a threat and have a warning system at choke points around the system you are in.. Teamwork>solo everytime. however you shouldnt be able to sit afk cloaked for ages without risk either.. it breaks the spirit of active play. And what about ships that go AFK while their throttle is at full. I've already had this problem catching a max-speed Crow because we couldn't put together a ship fast enough to catch up, never mind a ship you can't even see. Maybe he didn't want you to catch him? :P
Awox Infinitus Odium Curse Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.20 10:47:00 - [117] Originally by: HankMurphy Make it NEARLY impossible to find them, but if it really is some douche just sitting there afk, why not make it possible to find him? He's not actually spying, nor is he actually playing the game. He is playing his game. Not yours. Your game is "OMG we can't mine with an afk tank!". If it's not, you're complaining for no reason. Maybe he does sit there for 24 hours watching you. I've played EVE for 24 hours straight, just because what is doing isn't exciting doens't mean he isn't playing.
Gileas	Posted - 2007.01.20 11:01:00 - [118] Quote: Cloak should not be an I WIN button! I read this whole thread but it looks like I missed something. What did they win? --- Should CCP enact toll gates? Discuss it here!
Blue Pixie	Posted - 2007.01.20 11:15:00 - [119] Originally by: Gileas Quote: Cloak should not be an I WIN button! I read this whole thread but it looks like I missed something. What did they win? Best I can figure is the enviable title of "Griefing Carebear."
Winters Chill Amarr Scavenger Technologies	Posted - 2007.01.20 11:23:00 - [120] Originally by: Damien Smith Originally by: Nir Local chat is the problem here, not cloaks. QFT I second that motion

Nezz Jaran	Posted - 2007.01.20 11:27:00 - [121] My suggestions (not that anyone cares): Cloaking becomes scannable, but only if the person has the scanning skills trained to 5. Requires another type of probe. Takes, say, (10 minutes of scan time * covert ops level of cloaked person)/number of hours of inactivity. Numbers are grabbed totally at random, but it does penalize someone for being cloaked and inactive for more than an hour (in the example). Players have the option to leave the local channel. I've always thought of local like this: You jump into a system and instantly broadcast a "Here I am!" type message (think SYN in TCP/IP). Everyone in the system responds back with a "Here I am, too!" message (ACK). But I should have option to just listen (I'd still see local but not show up) or shut down my communications system completely (local window would disappear). And hey, if someone wants to jump into a system with local full-on, and keep the client active just to mess with people, so be it.
Kung Zao	Posted - 2007.01.20 12:13:00 - [122] god stop whining...0.0 carebears are the most disgusting of them all.
Faith Black Minmatar Rolls Roids	Posted - 2007.01.20 12:31:00 - [123] Edited by: Faith Black on 20/01/2007 12:40:36 Originally by: Siriyana Cloaking isn't an exploit. There is an easy counter to keeping a cloaked alt spy out of your system.... Don't let him get in there in the first place. Wait. Don't have enough people to prevent that? Then you don't really control that area of space. :) Yes, welcome to sitting in gate camps 23/7, chasing gangs, who come in, kill one guy and run/log one minute later and all that boring idiotic stuff. I've probably spend more time with sitting in camps and closing down systems than 95% of the eve population and it isn't fun at all, except someone on TS tells good jokes or you really get a fight after 6 hours sitting in the same spot. People should at least try to get a realistic view on this game. We play to have fun. Meaning: I surely wont sit at a bubble in some random system just because a cloaker might come. And even then he has some chance to get through. P.S.: 3 of my chars fly covert ops and soon all of them recon ships, too. If someone could catch me after being afk for 3 hours, I wouldn't mind it at all ! ------ Who wants to be Caldari, if he could be 1337 instead ? Minnie 4tw ! ^^
sartorii Genco Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.01.20 19:18:00 - [124] Originally by: Verite Rendition Originally by: sartorii Edited by: sartorii on 20/01/2007 04:50:35 For systems that have Sov there should be a DF (direction finding) module (possibly requiring fuel use)for POS that allow a designated Fleet Lead to warp to the point. Once the Error Ellipse is small enough there should be some sort of timer while the POS slowly acquires the cloaked ship, until they achieve lock.. the more POS (over 3)running DF modules (actively searching) the faster the lock.. ie 1 POS gives you a LOB (Line of Bearing) 2 will give a Cut, 3 a Fix. The longer the target remains stationary the more accurate the Fix should be (decreasing Error Ellipse) This allows ACTIVE cloaked ships to remain undetected by continually changing position (and restarting the POS DF process) but will prevent AFK cloakers from being undetectable. It also means an Alliance must invest enough time, energy and effort to secure Sov in the systems they wish to deploy the DF system. So 'contested' systems would still be 'free roaming' for the AFK lurkers. edit:tbh the only thing SOLO cloakers prevent is peace of mind for 0.0 Carebearing activities... Gang up, use large enough defensive gangs to prevent even a recon from being a threat and have a warning system at choke points around the system you are in.. Teamwork>solo everytime. however you shouldnt be able to sit afk cloaked for ages without risk either.. it breaks the spirit of active play. And what about ships that go AFK while their throttle is at full. I've already had this problem catching a max-speed Crow because we couldn't put together a ship fast enough to catch up, never mind a ship you can't even see. get a faster crow.. ie call Foo.. that is counterable, and or requires a MAJOR isk investment to be in the top tier.. Cloaks are not, and do not require much more than time to use. *To Bad Ignorance isnt Painful*
sartorii Genco Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.01.20 19:21:00 - [125] Originally by: Awox I've played EVE for 24 hours straight no you havent.. but IF the cloaker is active he should remain (largely) undetectable.. it is the log, cloak, go to work/sleep/school etc tactic that breaks the spirit of the game.. *To Bad Ignorance isnt Painful*
Awox Infinitus Odium Curse Alliance	Posted - 2007.02.10 09:58:00 - [126] Originally by: sartorii Originally by: Awox I've played EVE for 24 hours straight no you havent.. but IF the cloaker is active he should remain (largely) undetectable.. it is the log, cloak, go to work/sleep/school etc tactic that breaks the spirit of the game.. forums don't count? :(
hotgirl933	Posted - 2007.02.10 10:14:00 - [127] new probe ( cloaked ship scan probe)
Touk Shinra Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2007.02.10 10:16:00 - [128] cloaks are cloaks, they cloak you. but a way to find them would be nice, maybe a cloaker scan probe, nothing major, a range of like 500 km something like that. and it would just let you know there is a cloaker around FreeHugs
Jowen Datloran Caldari Science and Trade Institute	Posted - 2007.02.10 10:35:00 - [129] I see some pretty good predicting abilities in this thread, so predict this one: Let us imagine that cloaked ships can be probed out. Now "scary-alt" just constantly warp between multiple safespot, even making new as he goes. How will the first whine about this look like? ---------------- Mr. Science & Trade Institute
Zissou 5 November	Posted - 2007.02.10 10:37:00 - [130] Having a cloaked alt in a system 23/7 is the counter for being able to do what you want without anyone knowing.

Ernest Graefenberg Minmatar Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2007.02.10 10:38:00 - [131] Edited by: Ernest Graefenberg on 10/02/2007 10:38:17 Originally by: Jowen Datloran I see some pretty good predicting abilities in this thread, so predict this one: Let us imagine that cloaked ships can be probed out. Now "scary-alt" just constantly warp between multiple safespot, even making new as he goes. How will the first whine about this look like? He can't do it without effort anymore. Nobody cares too much. It's simply to avoid afk-cloaking as an area denial tool. Not even about the OPs complaint of one cloaker or whatnot. You can just protocloak a sizable group all across a system under the current method, and be practically as safe as in a station. It's painfully carebear to have a single module that completely eliminates any chance of being engaged at all, even while freaking afk.
ReaperOfSly Gallente Lyrus Associates Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2007.02.10 10:44:00 - [132] I've done a similar thing in my main, in a war enemy's main mining/ratting system. It was always satisfying to watch the local count drop from about 10 to 3 a couple of minutes after I logged on . Since they were war targets, I'm fairly sure I'm allowed to do that. --------------------------------------------------------------------


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