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Fester Addams
Minmatar
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Posted - 2007.01.22 12:19:00 -
[31]
Its very simple, Highsec is fairly safe so alot of people stay there for their casual play only venturing out into lowsec when they have to for some reason or other or when they go looking for troubble.
Back in the day lowsec was fairly well populated but pirates heavy cull of peacefull players have driven thise players ither into empire or out into 0.0.
Back in the day it is worth noting that just like now only specific areas were well populated back then it was mainly because of the shortage of players however.
Personally I think its a good thing that huge lowsec areas are void of people as this allowes me to go there and have some fun, especially since Im getting into exploration, I would prefer exploring in 0.0 but the logistics of clearing out the sites there would simply be too complex unless you are accepted by the locals, large empty areas of lowsec is perfect for me.
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Kagura Nikon
Minmatar
MASS HOMICIDE
FREGE Alliance
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Posted - 2007.01.22 13:07:00 -
[32]
with exception of placid) low sec is mostly empty.
So i say.. boost Privateers!!! CCP give them the hability to war dec NPC corps!!!
If brute force doesn't solve your problem.. then you are not using enough!! |
Gudrun Hart
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Posted - 2007.01.22 13:22:00 -
[33]
low sec is empty because a lot of player dont want to play your game - they want to play theyre own game.
If i'm not interested in pvp, because i want to do some missions, then i dont want to deal with gate camps or mission griefers, the same with belt ratting. If i'm setting up a low sec POS then most of the system i get trouble be pirats corps with dreads. The Investment is simply to big for a small corp and the risk is way to high - to loose the POS or just have a inaktive one.
Why do you think we all should be targets for pirats? We only loose in that game. We have to transport Fuel, BPO, Moon Mining, Ore....
Sometimes this works and more often i just dont work.
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Joshua Mendle
Gallente
The Bewlay Bros. Inc
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Posted - 2007.01.22 14:24:00 -
[34]
I have recently been venturing into 0.4 for some light belt ratting. I've done it three times already and have lost 3 ships to pirates. This is anoying when you all you want is a little more excitement and harder npcs, with better loot, without too much risk of loosing your ship.
On one occasion I was minding my own business in my Incursus, even managing to kill a Dread cruiser, before being set upon by three pirates, all in BCs or above. Hardly worth their time I would have thought, for what they would have collected from me, hardly challenging for them either.
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Hauler McTote
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Posted - 2007.01.22 14:31:00 -
[35]
Joshua, you may not have been worth the time ISK wise, but most Pirates (and some other pvp'ers maybe) are notrorious e-peeners and the Killboard comparison is way more important to them. |
Kagura Nikon
Minmatar
MASS HOMICIDE
FREGE Alliance
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Posted - 2007.01.22 14:32:00 -
[36]
 Originally by: Joshua Mendle
I have recently been venturing into 0.4 for some light belt ratting. I've done it three times already and have lost 3 ships to pirates. This is anoying when you all you want is a little more excitement and harder npcs, with better loot, without too much risk of loosing your ship.
On one occasion I was minding my own business in my Incursus, even managing to kill a Dread cruiser, before being set upon by three pirates, all in BCs or above. Hardly worth their time I would have thought, for what they would have collected from me, hardly challenging for them either.
really just keep local channel open and is almsot impossible to catch you. The only danger you have is dropping at a well made gate camp (as most simple gate camps cant catch a cruiser before it warps).
I could stay for like whole day in any low sec without being killed, on any ship you ask to (and that i can fly :P). Just paying attention to local.
I also got killed quite some times in low sec. But most were when trying to reach gate into a " hub" low sec system and being caught by a vagabond. That does not happen anymore due to WTZ. All othert times were when I was hunting pirates and trying to find them (and finding harder ones that I could handle).
Just get to low sec... ignore the first system (that is usually the msot pirated infested) go 1 or 2 deeper. And you can have long hours of fun with very little risk.
If brute force doesn't solve your problem.. then you are not using enough!! |
Pesadel0
Vagabundos
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Posted - 2007.01.22 14:39:00 -
[37]
Because they suck.
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Joshua Mendle
Gallente
The Bewlay Bros. Inc
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Posted - 2007.01.22 14:58:00 -
[38]
McTote, so you're saying if the Killboards were suddenly measured by actual mass of the kills instead, they'd all be pretty embarrased.
I'm just p@*%ed off that when you try to make the game a bit more enjoyable for yourself, you just get put down.
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Darkrogue
Standard Operations Building Services
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Posted - 2007.01.22 15:22:00 -
[39]
Danthomir, im happy you have figured this out. Something that I found out within my first few weeks of playing.
You realize, while the risk of dying might exist. Extra profits make up for any losses that may occur.
Now just to take the next step. 0.0 , its not as bad as everyone talks it up to be!
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Nash Leigth
Children of Azathoth
Brotherhood Of Steel
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Posted - 2007.01.22 15:36:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Hauler McTote
Joshua, you may not have been worth the time ISK wise, but most Pirates (and some other pvp'ers maybe) are notrorious e-peeners and the Killboard comparison is way more important to them.
An incursus does not look good on the kb at all.
Most pirates are after a gank - ANY gank. They are commonly straved for seeing more ships explode on their screens. So even if you come in a Velator, they'll blow that up, and not because a Velator kill will look good on their kb.
There are ways of keeping safe in low sec. New players don't know about a lot of these ways. They also don't come here to the forums to read about them. As a result, they get multiple ships blown up and then yes, of course, whatever rewards low sec offers just become not worth it. I think quite a few of these new players try ratting/mining in known pirate nests, being unaware that these systems have large quantities of pirates roaming about, and then they wonder why they get killed so much and complain about the f******ng griefers that blew them up n-th time in a row.
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Idami Raptor
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Posted - 2007.01.22 16:35:00 -
[41]
It's fairly simple really. Most people that are into MMO gaming simply aren't interested in uncontrolled PvP. Regardless of how much you like just being able to fight whoever you want, the majority of the potential player market doesn't want to be able to get popped whenever, regardless of how they feel about PvP in general. Sooner or later CCP is going to have to realize that if they want the game to continue to grow, but that's beside the point.
Past that, the rewards are much higher in NoSec. Rats are better, minerals are better, everything is better, by a vast amount.
NoSec is also securable. You can prevent anyone not in your 'friendlies group' from docking in your space, can kill them on sight, and use coordination and sheer population to hunt down anyone that does have the nerve to poke their nose in. Plus with Warp Bubbles, you can actually trap them and keep them from getting away.
In LowSec, anyone can dock at any station. You can't set up warp bubbles so WTZ will always work. You also can't shoot anyone on sight, unless they have a highly negative sec status. Meaning keeping hostiles out is all but impossible if they don't play along.
LowSec ends up as an insecurable, unsafe wasteland. Groups can't secure it against pirates, and solo players can't reasonably survive. The rewards for securing and exploiting 0.0 are far better, and the safety of Highsec is far far higher.
Thus the only ones who have a real reason to go to lowsec are...pirates. It offers just enough protection that they can operate without getting blasted out of hand, and yet little enough that they can blast people they find without significant consequence, particularly if they get a small group together. They can't go to Highsec because Concord will blast them. They can't go to NoSec because they'll spend most of their time trying to run from the Alliance hunters. and they won't always get away, either.
The rewards are higher in NoSec, the safety is higher in Highsec, and securability is much higher in NoSec.
Thus most people avoid Lowsec for the exact same reasons the pirates go there.
There's only two things that would make people go there.
1.) Higher rewards than NoSec currently offers.
2.) Safety at least close to what Highsec offers.
Anything aside from those two options will be ineffective. People who don't care about risk will go to NoSec as long as the rewards are higher there. People that care about safety will always stay in Highsec as long it's the only place they can be safe. People who want to work as a group in dangerous areas to make the rewards worthwhile will probably end up in a 0.0 Alliance(higher rewards AND higher securability than LowSec!)
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Wicked Spider
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Posted - 2007.01.22 16:51:00 -
[42]
is there a guide to survival in 0.0 ?
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Jas Dor
Minmatar
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Posted - 2007.01.22 16:57:00 -
[43]
Originally by: ScreamingLord Sutch
Not true!
All chokepoints to lowsec are camped by vicious giants who fart citadel torpedos and pew pew laser from thieir eyes!
I read this in SWA corp chat so it must be true!
In Battleships no less. Travelling frigs ftw.
Names, Dates, Times, Engagements, Losses, Op-Tempo or STFU! |
Jas Dor
Minmatar
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Posted - 2007.01.22 17:01:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Dagle
Originally by: Maximillian Pele
Edited by: Maximillian Pele on 22/01/2007 04:50:33
I couldn't jet can mine as the pirates camped the can or blew it up. Once they knew where I was they keep returning. Going through a gate was russian roulete. Getting the zydrine out took ages.
In the end I spent 50% of my time in a SS or docked. I made little more than I could have made in high sec for far less hassle.
That's the reason why miners don't go to low sec. It is effectively no more profitable to mine in low sec than it is to mine high sec even though the ores are more profitable per M^3. The time spent avoiding player pirates, difficulty moving the minerals and maybe using less productive ships (for multiple reasons) erodes the higher yield minerals until it is effectively no different from high sec mining.
Agreed. I know one group of miners who lost 1.2 Bil isk in 24-hours when two of their T2 haulers and cargo got popped on the way to empire. All in all I hear that taking a hulk to scordite is by far more profitable than anything you can do in low sec.
Names, Dates, Times, Engagements, Losses, Op-Tempo or STFU! |
Kanuo Ashkeron
Eve Defence Force
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Posted - 2007.01.22 18:13:00 -
[45]
According to the OP¦s question: To be actually effective in low sec you have to form a corp, get together work as a team and protect yourself from the pirates (yes, there are exceptions from the rule). When you achieved that, you probably have no problems in joining a 0.0 alliance.
Kanuo
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Idami Raptor
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Posted - 2007.01.22 18:28:00 -
[46]
Originally by: Kanuo Ashkeron
According to the OP¦s question: To be actually effective in low sec you have to form a corp, get together work as a team and protect yourself from the pirates (yes, there are exceptions from the rule). When you achieved that, you probably have no problems in joining a 0.0 alliance.
Kanuo
...which is what most people that can get that organized end up doing. Part of the problem.
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Ashina Sito
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Posted - 2007.01.22 18:47:00 -
[47]
Edited by: Ashina Sito on 22/01/2007 18:44:27
Originally by: Wicked Spider
is there a guide to survival in 0.0 ?
This is a very well written guide. It has everything you need to know as a baseline for your first trip to 0.0.
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=409879
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Forum Joe
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Posted - 2007.01.22 19:23:00 -
[48]
Topic title is : "Why on earth is low sec so empty?"
Answer is : Because the PvP mechanisms in EvE make ganking the more efficicent way to go.
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Danthomir
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Posted - 2007.01.23 03:38:00 -
[49]
Ashina: the link don't work :(
Today, after such an exciting foray into lowsec I tried exploring 0.0. Mmkay, that's a totally different story :D Let's just say I lost a battlecruiser to a gatecamp after a gatecamp (outran the first, got locked down by an intie in the next system) then spent a few hours exploring with a shuttle... Sheesh, this place is solo player-unfriendly. You need friends to survive and that's final... Between the chokepoints, pipeline-like routes, and scarse and well-defended stations here the reward for a lone ratter/miner definitely isn't worth the risk o.O
I still believe that lowsec is great for solo players though.
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Forum Troll
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Posted - 2007.01.23 04:35:00 -
[50]
You are either in High Sec or 0.0. There is no reason to go into Low Sec unless you are a pirate.
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hotgirl933
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Posted - 2007.01.23 06:16:00 -
[51]
low sec has its benefits if u pick the right region and are careful exploration is one such upsde
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Jessica May
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Posted - 2007.01.23 10:49:00 -
[52]
Low sec's Reward vs Risk doesn't stack up against High sec's Reward vs Risk. The extra isk mining in low sec doesn't cover a new Covetor if a PvP'er decides you're a fair target.
Low Sec is full of 'Carebear PvPers', those who like PVP put don't have the spheres to jump to 0.0
High Sec is full of 'CareBear Industrialists', those who like mining but don't have the spheres to jump to 0.0.
Low sec is fun for taking a team of TechI frigates and go ratting. You sometimes come across the CareBear PvPers that you can give a good spanking too and then listen to the 'Thats not fair, that was 5 against 1' whining. These are usually the folk who destroy Covetors using a HAC and think thats fair.
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Cmdr Sy
Repo Industries
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Posted - 2007.01.23 12:07:00 -
[53]
Originally by: Kanuo Ashkeron
According to the OP¦s question: To be actually effective in low sec you have to form a corp, get together work as a team and protect yourself from the pirates (yes, there are exceptions from the rule). When you achieved that, you probably have no problems in joining a 0.0 alliance.
# Time after time... #
Yeah, that's what happens. My old corp A4D has introduced a whole bunch of carebear corps to low sec, and once they can manage their affairs without A4D's input, it's not long before they join an alliance. In one case, it took 2-3 weeks. A couple of pirate attacks along the way, and as soon as they were moving only in groups, using scanner, and covering mining ops with EW, they were off.
On the other hand, those that don't like the alliance lifestyle (perhaps due to limited playing hours, or justifiably not wishing to pay their úÇ$ to mine for some arrogant clique), return to high sec once they find that the content is too spread out and in most PVP situations they can't fire pre-emptively.
Low sec is like EVE grad school. Not for everyone, can be hard to get into, and no-one hangs around for long because once you're done, there is nothing to keep you there.
Low sec needs to offer something unique, attractive and not available in either Empire or 0.0, to become anything but transit systems.
Logoffs on Fraps
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Roshan longshot
Gallente
Ordos Humanitas
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Posted - 2007.01.23 12:31:00 -
[54]
Lets use the famous PVP words here....."Risk vs Reward"
The risk is far greater the the reward...
Now the reward is far greater then the risk in 0.0
Free-form Professions, ensure no limetations on professions. Be a trader, fighter, industialist, researcher, hunter pirate or mixture of them all.
[i]As read from the original box.
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Fester Addams
Minmatar
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Posted - 2007.01.23 13:22:00 -
[55]
Originally by: Roshan longshot
Lets use the famous PVP words here....."Risk vs Reward"
The risk is far greater the the reward...
Now the reward is far greater then the risk in 0.0
Actually the PvPers version of Risk vs Reward reads
You take the risk so I can have the reward.
If there is a risk vs reward that is way out of balance its the one for lowesec campers, with very little preparation and very little risk they have a potential for rewards a non camper could only dream of.
Make camping more dangerous and you will see more people try to bust camps wich will leads to camps being less frequent wich will lead to more people braving lowsec wich will lead to non camping forms of piracy becoming more viable... I see no downside to it.
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Mr Mozzie
Eve University
Ivy League
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Posted - 2007.01.23 13:25:00 -
[56]
The lowsec-highsec thing in eve is great. People who don't want to pvp can stay safe in empire and people who want to pvp can leave empire.
Originally by: Joshua Mendle
On one occasion I was mindiation_disney_magic/western_cruise__fairfieldging to kill a Dread cruiser, before being set upon by three pirates, all in BCs or above. Hardly worth their time I would have thought, for what they would have collected from me, hardly challenging for them either.
This reminded me of the animated gif 'PvP in a nutshell'. There is a granny and a guy sitting at a table. Another guy strides up and kicks the granny in the head, so the guy sitting at the table says 'pwnt'. It was so true.
If the Privateers recent empire war on eve-uni has taugh me anything, it is pirates tend run when faced with a decent fleet.
It will be really interesting to see how lowsec and pirates evolve. Perhaps people will start using group tactics to defeat the pirates and then the pirates will need to develop other tactics. Perhaps one day there will be large convoys of freighters with escorts heading into and out of lowsec to prevent piracy.
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Blindscythe
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Posted - 2007.01.23 13:33:00 -
[57]
Edited by: Blindscythe on 23/01/2007 13:29:19
As has already been stated, low-sec is empty because of the overuse of resources, ie. pirates eating too much :)
As for 'Eve not being applicable as most MMO players prefer consentual PvP' then how come we see so many WoW defecters here? Plus, wtf? Eve has built a strong base, it hasn't sunk, if anything it has retained a lot of its roots and i'll be damned if in order to make a successful MMO you need to follow the flock.
edit: rampant typo
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Jessica May
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Posted - 2007.01.23 13:50:00 -
[58]
Edited by: Jessica May on 23/01/2007 13:47:53
I think the term 'pirate' is currently mis-used in terms of EVE.
Very few of these PvPers actually hunt/destroy other players for financial benefit. They do it simply because they enjoy it. They use ships which are greatly overpowered for the job, such as HAC's to destroy Barges. What benefit could be had by warping into a belt and destroying a barge without even requesting any ransom? Result you scare them off and you cut off your supply (which is what has happened).
Calling these types of players 'pirates' simply gives real pirates a bad name.
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Blindscythe
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Posted - 2007.01.23 14:12:00 -
[59]
Originally by: Jessica May
Edited by: Jessica May on 23/01/2007 13:47:53
I think the term 'pirate' is currently mis-used in terms of EVE.
Very few of these PvPers actually hunt/destroy other players for financial benefit. They do it simply because they enjoy it. They use ships which are greatly overpowered for the job, such as HAC's to destroy Barges. What benefit could be had by warping into a belt and destroying a barge without even requesting any ransom? Result you scare them off and you cut off your supply (which is what has happened).
Calling these types of players 'pirates' simply gives real pirates a bad name.
In relation to those being 'pirated' the term has no other meaning other than 'losing one's ship to another player'
The only way the term 'Pirate' would be in contest, is between the Pirates themselves only :)
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Jessica May
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Posted - 2007.01.23 14:14:00 -
[60]
Originally by: Blindscythe
In relation to those being 'pirated' the term has no other meaning other than 'losing one's ship to another player'
The only way the term 'Pirate' would be in contest, is between the Pirates themselves only :)
I'll take that as you're agreeing with me 
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