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Why on earth is low-sec so empty?!

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Danthomir	Posted - 2007.01.22 03:32:00 - [1] New player here. o/ I've spent the past week or two doing missions, stealing ore, and pirating in low-sec fairly close to high-population Empire space. Amamake and whatnot... Just now, however, I had to take a looong trip through lowsec's more distant parts. And they're all empty. Allright, not all: some systems are full of people, from good agents I assume. And other systems have one or two folks inside. The rest, however, are completely clear and just SCREAM "Exploit me!" All this time I was under the impression that low-sec was a dangerous place filled with roving bands of pirates, and near major hubs that looks like the case. But it's not! Deeper in, system after system are completely empty! You can go into an empty system and start ratting/mining. Pirate shows up? Safespot or go to another empty system the second they're in Local. Someone unknown shows up in a ship that -could- be a risk? Set your scanner on a few AU, and keep scanning to see if they're warping to your belt. Second they approach, safespot -> new system. Do people not realise how roomy the more distant parts of lowsec are? Do they think all of it is as dangerous as Amamake and surroundings? Is that why they cram in five to an asteroid field into highsec? I have no idea, but I know one thing: I'm packing up my stuff, selling off spare ships, and moving. Elbow room AND higher profits? Oh hell YEAH :D
Dark Shikari Caldari Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2007.01.22 03:44:00 - [2] Shhhh! Don't tell anyone! P.S. Low sec ores are now 2-3x as profitable as high sec ores yet not much less profitable than 0.0... and they're often in systems with 50% refineries... -[23] Member- Listen to EVE-Trance Radio! (DSTrance channel ingame)
Mi Lai Sanguine Legion	Posted - 2007.01.22 03:45:00 - [3] Some of the local pirates there have either become inactive or packed up to other places over the last couple of months. I'm pretty confident the action will pick up eventually, Amamake allways does.
Marcus TheMartin Gallente Tuxedo.	Posted - 2007.01.22 04:13:00 - [4] Simply put people don't like getting shot. So they go to empire. People get shot in empire and they make a post about the privateers (high sec pirates so to speak). That then leads to people proposing new shards and such so they can carebear it up without worry. Which leads to pirates making posts. Which leads to the neutrals making unbiased posts that are often called wines as a method of making said argument null and void so thusly any one asking for change is called a whiner. thats whats going on with lowsec and spilling over to the forums Please resize your signature picture to be no more than 400x120 pixels, 24000 bytes. - Devil ([email protected])
ReePeR McAllem The Carebear Stare Privateer Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.22 04:21:00 - [5] Originally by: Dark Shikari Shhhh! Don't tell anyone! P.S. Low sec ores are now 2-3x as profitable as high sec ores yet not much less profitable than 0.0... and they're often in systems with 50% refineries... Talk about digging yerself a hole... coconuts...
ScreamingLord Sutch Hand in Mouth	Posted - 2007.01.22 04:23:00 - [6] Not true! All chokepoints to lowsec are camped by vicious giants who fart citadel torpedos and pew pew laser from thieir eyes! I read this in SWA corp chat so it must be true!
Marcus TheMartin Gallente Tuxedo.	Posted - 2007.01.22 04:29:00 - [7] Originally by: ScreamingLord Sutch Not true! All chokepoints to lowsec are camped by vicious giants who fart citadel torpedos and pew pew laser from thieir eyes! I read this in SWA corp chat so it must be true! Noob corp chat is always hillarious one time some one posted pron and every one was like wow I never want to see you naked again Please resize your signature picture to be no more than 400x120 pixels, 24000 bytes. - Devil ([email protected])
RedLion Caldari evenova	Posted - 2007.01.22 04:32:00 - [8] I made tons of alts and tried traveling into all the big alliance spaces... Noone there to gank me. Ofc I couldn't dock at their stations even when i tried... and the pirate NPC battleships payed no interest in me. 0.0 is dull. I wouldn't mind moving agents out in low sec, too bad the best agents are currently in high sec.
Marcus TheMartin Gallente Tuxedo.	Posted - 2007.01.22 04:37:00 - [9] Originally by: RedLion I made tons of alts and tried traveling into all the big alliance spaces... Noone there to gank me. Ofc I couldn't dock at their stations even when i tried... and the pirate NPC battleships payed no interest in me. 0.0 is dull. I wouldn't mind moving agents out in low sec, too bad the best agents are currently in high sec. The mission runner lobby would have an uproar Please resize your signature picture to be no more than 400x120 pixels, 24000 bytes. - Devil ([email protected])
Maximillian Pele Caldari Jewel Enterprises	Posted - 2007.01.22 04:52:00 - [10] Edited by: Maximillian Pele on 22/01/2007 04:50:33 The problem is that some areas of low sec are so empty that when a pirate comes around guess who they'll be after. As soon as I got my retriever I tried ninja mining in Amarr low sec. Did everything right - set up BMs away from the warp in points, made multiple SS, and had insta dock BMs. The system I was in usually had just me, and I got to know the non-hostile locals. Sat alligned to warp, watched local like a hawk. I had all the Jaspet I could mine. So I should have got rich right? Even though I am on GMT -10 and only 13,000 K were on, I was still found by people who wanted to kill me within a couple of hours at most. I couldn't jet can mine as the pirates camped the can or blew it up. Once they knew where I was they keep returning. Going through a gate was russian roulete. Getting the zydrine out took ages. In the end I spent 50% of my time in a SS or docked. I made little more than I could have made in high sec for far less hassle. And I never lost a ship doing it. Now I mine in 0.0 and commute to high sec. In times of doubt I ask myself "What would BoB do?", and then do the opposite.

6Bagheera9 Shadows of the Dead Aftermath Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.22 05:15:00 - [11] Some areas of low-sec are persistently empty and as long as you keep your wits about you, you should be okay. Its where low-sec borders on 0.0 or high-sec that you need to really watch your ass. These places get alot of traffic, pirates will roam both areas and 0.0 alliances/corps will kill anyone that comes to their front door.
Dagle Minmatar Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency	Posted - 2007.01.22 05:19:00 - [12] Originally by: Maximillian Pele Edited by: Maximillian Pele on 22/01/2007 04:50:33 I couldn't jet can mine as the pirates camped the can or blew it up. Once they knew where I was they keep returning. Going through a gate was russian roulete. Getting the zydrine out took ages. In the end I spent 50% of my time in a SS or docked. I made little more than I could have made in high sec for far less hassle. That's the reason why miners don't go to low sec. It is effectively no more profitable to mine in low sec than it is to mine high sec even though the ores are more profitable per M^3. The time spent avoiding player pirates, difficulty moving the minerals and maybe using less productive ships (for multiple reasons) erodes the higher yield minerals until it is effectively no different from high sec mining.
Alvara	Posted - 2007.01.22 05:27:00 - [13] Originally by: Dagle Originally by: Maximillian Pele Edited by: Maximillian Pele on 22/01/2007 04:50:33 I couldn't jet can mine as the pirates camped the can or blew it up. Once they knew where I was they keep returning. Going through a gate was russian roulete. Getting the zydrine out took ages. In the end I spent 50% of my time in a SS or docked. I made little more than I could have made in high sec for far less hassle. That's the reason why miners don't go to low sec. It is effectively no more profitable to mine in low sec than it is to mine high sec even though the ores are more profitable per M^3. The time spent avoiding player pirates, difficulty moving the minerals and maybe using less productive ships (for multiple reasons) erodes the higher yield minerals until it is effectively no different from high sec mining. Hole in one!
Nikla Uthaan Caldari	Posted - 2007.01.22 06:21:00 - [14] Originally by: Dagle That's the reason why miners don't go to low sec. It is effectively no more profitable to mine in low sec than it is to mine high sec even though the ores are more profitable per M^3. The time spent avoiding player pirates, difficulty moving the minerals and maybe using less productive ships (for multiple reasons) erodes the higher yield minerals until it is effectively no different from high sec mining. But it's damn fun! I remember ninja ratting with my main and ninja mining with my alt in the same system under the noses of 8 pursuing hostiles. Tons of fun and i never lost a ship (unles it was a shuttle) ----------------- One word,, emo,,, The Mishing is an ethnic group in the districts of North Lakhimpur, Sonitput, Dhemaji, Dibrugarh, Sibsagar, Jorhat, Golaghat, Tinsukia of Assam.
Riese Blecja Gallente Merch Industrial	Posted - 2007.01.22 06:46:00 - [15] Originally by: Maximillian Pele Edited by: Maximillian Pele on 22/01/2007 04:50:33 The problem is that some areas of low sec are so empty that when a pirate comes around guess who they'll be after. As soon as I got my retriever I tried ninja mining in Amarr low sec. Did everything right - set up BMs away from the warp in points, made multiple SS, and had insta dock BMs. The system I was in usually had just me, and I got to know the non-hostile locals. Sat alligned to warp, watched local like a hawk. I had all the Jaspet I could mine. So I should have got rich right? Even though I am on GMT -10 and only 13,000 K were on, I was still found by people who wanted to kill me within a couple of hours at most. I couldn't jet can mine as the pirates camped the can or blew it up. Once they knew where I was they keep returning. Going through a gate was russian roulete. Getting the zydrine out took ages. In the end I spent 50% of my time in a SS or docked. I made little more than I could have made in high sec for far less hassle. And I never lost a ship doing it. Now I mine in 0.0 and commute to high sec. This is why you can't solo-mine lowsec. It's entirely possible to make very very good money in lowsec but you need friends and you need to be able to defend your claimed space. MRCHI has practically built their own citadel in lowsec that is probably safer than highsec a lot of the time, especially in a wardec situation. If you're going out to lowsec or 0.0, go out with friends.
Maximillian Pele Caldari Jewel Enterprises	Posted - 2007.01.22 06:58:00 - [16] Quote: This is why you can't solo-mine lowsec. It's entirely possible to make very very good money in lowsec but you need friends and you need to be able to defend your claimed space. MRCHI has practically built their own citadel in lowsec that is probably safer than highsec a lot of the time, especially in a wardec situation. If you're going out to lowsec or 0.0, go out with friends. Have friends now - went to 0.0 instead. In times of doubt I ask myself "What would BoB do?", and then do the opposite.
Monde Thor	Posted - 2007.01.22 07:14:00 - [17] Many Low Sec areas were empty because all the Pirates were shooting me. I went from a very quiet system that saw one Pirate every day or two (at peak time) to a main road in about a week.
Trolsk The Murder Plan	Posted - 2007.01.22 07:15:00 - [18] You answered your own question.... Originally by: Danthomir I've spent the past week or two ... pirating in low-sec People dont like getting randomly ganked by wandering pirates thus they don't go to low sec to become easy prey to the same wandering pirates.....
Cipher7	Posted - 2007.01.22 07:18:00 - [19] Originally by: Maximillian Pele Edited by: Maximillian Pele on 22/01/2007 04:50:33 The problem is that some areas of low sec are so empty that when a pirate comes around guess who they'll be after. As soon as I got my retriever I tried ninja mining in Amarr low sec. Did everything right - set up BMs away from the warp in points, made multiple SS, and had insta dock BMs. The system I was in usually had just me, and I got to know the non-hostile locals. Sat alligned to warp, watched local like a hawk. I had all the Jaspet I could mine. So I should have got rich right? Even though I am on GMT -10 and only 13,000 K were on, I was still found by people who wanted to kill me within a couple of hours at most. I couldn't jet can mine as the pirates camped the can or blew it up. Once they knew where I was they keep returning. Going through a gate was russian roulete. Getting the zydrine out took ages. In the end I spent 50% of my time in a SS or docked. I made little more than I could have made in high sec for far less hassle. And I never lost a ship doing it. Now I mine in 0.0 and commute to high sec. ding ding ding
Audri Fisher Caldari The Keep THE R0CK	Posted - 2007.01.22 07:31:00 - [20] why rat/mine in low sec when it is so much safer and profitable to do so in 0.0?

Andrue Amarr	Posted - 2007.01.22 08:31:00 - [21] Edited by: Andrue on 22/01/2007 08:29:22 Low-sec is stressful and hard to exploit. The stress can ruin game-play experience, the logistics can render the exercise little better than Empire mining. This is especially true for the traditional 'carebear' because they don't actually need great riches. By their nature they don't lose ships. They probably don't need the latest and greatest fittings. That means they can be quite happy pulling down 20mil a week which is easy in hi-sec. This is part of the big problem with Eve from a PvP point of view. It is possible to settle into a comfortable existance and still get value from your subscription. As a PvPer you need to replace hardware and you need the best hardware but an Empire dweller? You can spend an entire year using the same set of ships and equipment (I did) and be quite happy. I'm not a carebear (because I don't whine) but I stay out of lo-sec and 0.0 because there is nothing to be gained by going there. I can currently make 100mil a week in Empire without any hassle but since I'm a multi-billionaire I often don't bother. I'm not saying that all Empire dwellers are multi-billionaires but most of us don't need a huge income to fund our game play. I think that if you want us out of Empire you need to provide something interesting for us to do. Lvl5 agents could be just that. Oh and when it comes to PvP you're going to have give up the idea of getting your rocks off on our pain. By that I mean that we won't tolerate paying a monthly subscription just so that you can destroy our hard work. Blow my ship up, fine but not if it's going to carry the huge penalty that it currently does. Put this another way:Empire dwellers are the 'fops' or 'playboys' of Eve. We have an easy life and we like to loll around doing as little as possible. You're not going to get us to come and visit your sordid little killing fields as they currently stand. -- (Battle hardened industrialist) [Brackley, UK] Linux is only free if your time is worthless
Wild Rho Amarr Black Omega Security	Posted - 2007.01.22 08:55:00 - [22] Low sec has little to offer that's worth the hassle compare to high sec and 0.0. High sec has the concord protection keeping you safe from all but determined suicide attacks and corp wars. Ignoring those factors you can do what you want with minmal interference from other players and is a naturally preferable state of affairs for most people. You can also make a respectable income from mission running and evening mining if you have the patience. 0.0 while having no concord protection is also extremely easy to survive in as long as you maintain even a basic awareness. More recently it has become even safer with the changes to local showing standings giving you plenty of time to get out of trouble if a hostile arrives in the system. Add to that you get the best rewards from rare ores, battleship npc spawns, high end complexes and so on. There's always the risk of your space being invaded but that's more of an event than a day to day occurence. Low sec on the other hand is actually more dangerous than 0.0 but without the same rewards. The danger comes from the fact that you cannot use things like the local channel with the same reliability for intel gathering becuase many people can pass through a low sec system and you can only guess their intentions; either take a chance they have no interest in you or spend alot of time warping to a safespot/station until they leave the system. A someone else said, it's alot of hassle with no real reward. Personally I'd rather see the local channel in 0.0 gone completely as it would definetly make 0.0 alot more dangerous, the fact low sec is more dangerous is a poor joke but that's an old discussion that's been going for a long time now. Low sec really needs somthing unique that can't be found in either high sec or 0.0 to encourage more people out there. Until there is somthing worth taking the time and trouble to secure an area low sec will always be deserted. I have the body of a supermodel. I just can't remember where I left it.
Shadowsword COLSUP Tau Ceti Federation	Posted - 2007.01.22 09:35:00 - [23] Why is it so empty? Pretty simple, really: too many gate campers in the interesting spots, making any solo activity with anything the size of a cruiser or above around those spots just not worth it. Gate sentries haven't been upgraded for years, and it's now far too easy to tank them. ------------------------------------------ Every ship has a base 60-70% resist against the primary damage type of the race that is the least able to vary it's damage types.
gfldex Gallente Dark-Rising Fallen Souls	Posted - 2007.01.22 09:40:00 - [24] Good reason given here but one is missing. With the deployment of sentry guns in low sec the one and only way to protect space was taken away from players. Preemptive strikes that stop ppl from moving into a system are either impossible or depend on a lot luck. In the beginning there was no CONCORD and gate sentries. Players failed to form communities to protect each other and asked the devs to solve the problem (read: whining). Instead of a solution they got a mirror that simply showed their own stupid face. I truely believe the devs are to smart to be handled by carebears properly.
Makree Ubar Asteroid Hugging Collective	Posted - 2007.01.22 09:41:00 - [25] Originally by: Dark Shikari P.S. Low sec ores are now 2-3x as profitable as high sec ores yet not much less profitable than 0.0... and they're often in systems with 50% refineries... Shhhh! Don't tell anyone! But with exploration you can find asteroid belts containing haemoriods and other 'low sec' ores in high sec. Reducing the need to go to low sec even more. To the OP, low sec is empty cause of the warp stab nerf. Now you know that if you get into a fight you cannot bug out, like any sane person would do, if you are going to get an ass whippin.
Riho Red Wrath Exquisite Malevolence	Posted - 2007.01.22 10:45:00 - [26] Originally by: RedLion I made tons of alts and tried traveling into all the big alliance spaces... Noone there to gank me. Ofc I couldn't dock at their stations even when i tried... and the pirate NPC battleships payed no interest in me. 0.0 is dull. I wouldn't mind moving agents out in low sec, too bad the best agents are currently in high sec. not really... the corp i do missions for has the best agents in low sec and i do em there :D
Waut 0utbreak	Posted - 2007.01.22 10:46:00 - [27] They are scary and bad In Soviet EVE, roids pop YOU
Nash Leigth Children of Azathoth Brotherhood Of Steel	Posted - 2007.01.22 10:59:00 - [28] There have been quite a few good threads on the topic in the past few weeks. I'm inclined to agree with some other posters that warp core stab nerf has something to do with it. Before you could put stabs on your ratting ship or your defending ship in case of a mining op. This would give you a chance of escaping encounters with pirates. Right now, if you use warp core stabs you effectively gimp your own ability to fight back, so you can't rat with them or defend mining ops with them. I think a lot of high sec dwellers have caught on to this fact. It is much easier to sit and mine high sec ore or run missions for high sec agents than to try to fend for yourself in low sec. Sure, you're not getting paid as much but whatever is the difference, most people seem to think it is not worth the risk. Also there are a lot of misconceptions younger players have about low sec. They get into a tough situation or gate camp once, and that's it, they proclaim they are not going to low sec ever again. They are not very well aware of some of the techniques that would help them keep safe. For example, a lot of them don't know that pirates can scan for ships and determine exactly what belt a ship is in. Some have this idea that about every low sec gate is camped most of the time. I think if there was some kind of an optional tutorial educating noobs on how to keep themselves safe, they would feel more confident visiting low sec space.
Akkarin Pagan Minmatar Raddick Explorations	Posted - 2007.01.22 11:04:00 - [29] I used to live in low sec about 6 months ago. I found myself a nice little backwater in the minmatar republic (Taff) and *****d out lvl 2s to my hearts content. I never bothered with safe spots or instas, and only got shot at once in about 3 months there by CVA. Luckily for me I was in a Stiletto at the time and my T2 afterburner got me to the gate before they could breach shields. I live in low sec again now (when not in 0.0). I get to use the highest quality agent available to the corp I mission for, again in a backwater. I did get jumped on my way down by an Astarte, and thanks to luck, the ability of the Raven to tank and deal damage like a mofo, and some help from the sentries, the Astarte is now a cloud of radioactive dust, and the mods are furnishing my wallet. Now I'm installed in another backwater, I never see hostiles. A couple of systems away there are a few pilots, but my agent rareley sends me there, and they've never troubled me. I still don't have ss, and if a bunch of pirates come in system, I can dock pdq, and wait them out, and with the scanning changes, I know that a loan pirate will have a devil of a time scanning me out. I do have to pay slightly more for ammo and mods when they are required, but due to the amount of isk I can generate, I can easily swallow those costs. Now with warp to zero (I came down before Revelations) it's even easier to get ships in and out, and there is no reason why others can't come and live in low sec and mission run peacefully. It's all about location :) Akkarin <3 - Immy
Romeda Minmatar The White Star Consortium Distant Star Alliance	Posted - 2007.01.22 11:15:00 - [30] Empty? I lived in Placid for most of my time in EVE and up until about a just under a year ago it was for the most part empty, but now it's full... Of mostly pirates, there is many pirate corps operating in that region, the asteroid belts are very full and rich with low-sec ores mostly giving Jaspet and Omber. The problem is there is too much new players taking up PvP and making mining for large ammouts of minerals like Nox and Iso and others difficult, also belt ratting is somtimes an overly risky bussiness, this makes industry much more expencive in these areas. Think about it why is there no unique low-sec trade hubs? The only unique economic enviroments are some large alliance controled 0.0 regions.



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