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Sticky:Dev blog: Skill trading in New Eden

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 8 post(s)
Rain6637 GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 33233	Posted - 2016.01.22 02:23:03 - [1] - Quote I think you need to make different considerations for tiers. The scaling effectiveness is the right intent, but you'll still have low SP characters and high SP characters in the same market. There should be different extractors by SP tier. An extractor for first tier use, another for second-lowest tier use, and on. Otherwise the high SP characters who need more extractors will put more pressure on the extractor market than low SP characters (who receive more of the SP in an extractor). If you want more benefit for low SP characters, you should also insulate their market price from higher SP users... right? Secondly, to simplify the math and the process, extractors should all yield 500k SP (or another standard amount) but consume more SP in their creation based on the tier. I don't think the PLEX inflation resulting from this additional AUR sink can be helped, but you can still make extractors more granular and isolate extractor markets from each other. Help, I can't download EVE President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub PLEX: A Giffen good? (It's 1B?)
Rain6637 GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 33233	Posted - 2016.01.22 02:38:43 - [2] - Quote Zeddrick Anthar wrote: Rain6637 wrote: I think you need to make different considerations for tiers. The scaling effectiveness is the right intent, but you'll still have low SP characters and high SP characters in the same market. There should be different extractors by SP tier. An extractor for first tier use, another for second-lowest tier use, and on. Otherwise the high SP characters who need more extractors will put more pressure on the extractor market than low SP characters (who receive more of the SP in an extractor). If you want more benefit for low SP characters, you should also insulate their market price from higher SP users... right? Secondly, to simplify the math and the process, extractors should all yield 500k SP (or another standard amount) but consume more SP in their creation based on the tier. I don't think the PLEX inflation resulting from this additional AUR sink can be helped, but you can still make extractors more granular and isolate extractor markets from each other. An interesting tweak would be to have it so that high-tier extractors only extract from characters in the high-skillpoint bracket. So if you have >50mil sp you have to inject skills taken from the head of another character with >50mil SP. I was just thinking that over dinner, and wondering what the implications would be for doing it that way and not. And whether you could allow a straight 500k SP = 500k SP that way. But probably not. Help, I can't download EVE President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub PLEX: A Giffen good? (It's 1B?)
Rain6637 GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 33233	Posted - 2016.01.23 02:33:30 - [3] - Quote wait, are we unsubbing or not. I can never tell with these things. Help, I can't download EVE President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub PLEX: A Giffen good? (It's 1B?)
Rain6637 GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 33233	Posted - 2016.01.23 02:59:24 - [4] - Quote Memphis Baas wrote: Gregor Parud actually Doomheim'ed on pg. 28(?), sad. But I don't think anybody else did anything other than post. hooooo **** I caught up on his conversation after finding his posts. It was regarding the generic SP nature of extractors, and I kind of agree. It might be a bit too edgy for anyone's tastes, but I would agree to extractors whose SP is specific to a skill. So there would be incentive for someone to remap to drone skills or leadership and sell those SP. Remap-specific SP, even. So like, Intel-Mem extractors would be less valuable than whatever drone and leadership skills are. It would probably look like, in order of lowest value to highest: Intel / Mem Per / Will Will / Per Mem / Intel etc. It would be interesting to see the demand versus remap premium balance out. Trade skills, for example, would be one of those awkward remaps, but the demand would also be slightly lower than Drone or Leadership skills. Help, I can't download EVE President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub PLEX: A Giffen good? (It's 1B?)
Rain6637 GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 33233	Posted - 2016.01.23 06:56:41 - [5] - Quote Zozoll Neblyn wrote: I wonder what this will do to the market value of high SP characters? Currently you can sell an 80 mil SP character for well over 35 bil ISK. But with extractors, will that price hold up? If this is going to massively de-value characters that people have put years into building up, that might cause some unsubbing. The price could increase by quite a bit for characters with odd skills. Help, I can't download EVE President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub PLEX: A Giffen good? (It's 1B?)
Rain6637 GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 33233	Posted - 2016.01.23 13:08:58 - [6] - Quote What do you call it when you stay subbed for years on several accounts to make sure you don't miss out on SP, even though you know you won't be playing? It's the same thing. The important thing to remember is it's within the limits of what a company can do with the rule book. Whether it's Magic The Gathering and a change in the bylaws or whatever governs the card game, an SP transfer mechanic is the same thing. As for the question of "What Next?" Being able to see things through to their logical conclusions is a good skill, but another good skill is the ability to be objective about what is, and stopping short of what something might be. The extractor / SP trade mechanic is one case when you shouldn't react based on an exaggeration of the thing. Evaluate it for what it is, and go with that. It helps to not be emotional about it. Help, I can't download EVE President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub PLEX: A Giffen good? (It's 1B?)
Rain6637 GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 33233	Posted - 2016.01.23 13:11:26 - [7] - Quote I thought +10 attribute enhancement was an eye opener. But I also CBA to pay or hunt for them. I wouldn't be against it, but remember any kind of flat acceleration to SP accumulation is a discount on one of EVE's main subscription generators. Skill extractors are a sink, and the exact opposite. Help, I can't download EVE President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub PLEX: A Giffen good? (It's 1B?)
Rain6637 GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 33233	Posted - 2016.01.23 13:19:55 - [8] - Quote To accelerate SP accumulation by a year, or 20 million SP, CCP would have to recoup the cost of an annual subscription. So it would cost AUR, not ISK. Figure 12 PLEX for 20 million SP overnight, and add a 50% premium for the convenience. 18 PLEX x 3500 AUR = 63,000 AUR. It would look something like that per 20 million SP. Help, I can't download EVE President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub PLEX: A Giffen good? (It's 1B?)
Rain6637 GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 33233	Posted - 2016.01.23 13:22:27 - [9] - Quote Three of these http://i.imgur.com/U0QrLwo.png triple posting because I'm edgy Help, I can't download EVE President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub PLEX: A Giffen good? (It's 1B?)
Rain6637 GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 33233	Posted - 2016.01.23 13:42:35 - [10] - Quote Zozoll Neblyn wrote: With Injectors, all toons are equally specialized. I think what you mean is remapped. If attributes went away, this point wouldn't be an issue. And they need to go away. Help, I can't download EVE President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub PLEX: A Giffen good? (It's 1B?)

Rain6637 GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 33236	Posted - 2016.01.23 15:36:34 - [11] - Quote King Aires, you're just worried the other kid will have more fun than you even though you both have the same ball. Help, I can't download EVE President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub PLEX: A Giffen good? (It's 1B?)
Rain6637 GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 33238	Posted - 2016.01.23 16:35:57 - [12] - Quote Anabuki Tomoko wrote: anyway. this thread has become to toxic. so i'm leaving it. if the devs read it they'll see my points for why its a good idea, and see you guys crying about something that the character bazaar already lets you do. heres a tip. the skill injectors are already coming out. stop bitching and leave already if you can't handle it. Criticizes thread for being toxic. Says something toxic. Help, I can't download EVE President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub PLEX: A Giffen good? (It's 1B?)
Rain6637 GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 33239	Posted - 2016.01.24 00:08:08 - [13] - Quote Iowa Banshee wrote: Arkorina wrote: will character bazaar be removed when skill trading will be introduced? it will be a sad day It's more a case of will anyone put a character up for sale if they can make lots more by selling it piecemeal as injectors I concur. I plan to transfer some SP from my confused marauder / mining booster character, who I bought from bazaar thinking I could make something useful out of her. Plenty more where she came from. Help, I can't download EVE President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub PLEX: A Giffen good? (It's 1B?)
Rain6637 GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 33239	Posted - 2016.01.25 04:11:45 - [14] - Quote well. personally I just find that funny. But just as much as it is damning, there's the character bazaar, which is an existing corollary to SP extractors. Help, I can't download EVE President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub PLEX: A Giffen good? (It's 1B?)
Rain6637 GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 33239	Posted - 2016.01.25 05:52:48 - [15] - Quote I don't think players are as upset as they could be. The real hotness will be in buying a junk character on bazaar for six bil or so, and brain draining all that SP with dirt cheap extractors. Congratulations you just trained 20 million SP for 8 billion ISK. Help, I can't download EVE President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub PLEX: A Giffen good? (It's 1B?)
Rain6637 GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 33239	Posted - 2016.01.25 05:53:34 - [16] - Quote EVERYONE WILL BE BETTER THAN YOU FOR A SIX PACK OF PLEX Help, I can't download EVE President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub PLEX: A Giffen good? (It's 1B?)
Rain6637 GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 33253	Posted - 2016.01.27 03:27:22 - [17] - Quote I'm just glad CCP doesn't spend money on badbrained player volunteers Help, I can't download EVE President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub PLEX: A Giffen good? (It's 1B?)
Rain6637 GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 33255	Posted - 2016.01.28 10:02:35 - [18] - Quote More than SP I'd like the ability to transfer standings through sponsorship. Some type of system where infractions impact the sponsor two to five times more than normal, but the sponsoree enjoys either full or partial standings benefits. You are your friends, etc. Help, I can't download EVE President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub PLEX: A Giffen good? (It's 1B?)
Rain6637 GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 33255	Posted - 2016.01.28 10:12:00 - [19] - Quote Will you explain the Aria connection to EVE in greater detail? I found this article, but it only mentions Valkyrie. https://www.ariasystems.com/company/press-release/ccp-games-selects-aria-systems-active-monetization-platform Help, I can't download EVE President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub PLEX: A Giffen good? (It's 1B?)
Rain6637 GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 33256	Posted - 2016.01.29 02:08:51 - [20] - Quote I recall a long time ago a Dev said the most (or one of the most) OP things in the game is unallocated SP. Help, I can't download EVE President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub PLEX: A Giffen good? (It's 1B?)

Rain6637 GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 33257	Posted - 2016.01.29 03:04:21 - [21] - Quote Hey mike. So this was a nice trip down memory lane. A post of mine in response to a proposed skill reassignment mechanic. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=5475127#post5475127 Kinda proud to see my opinion on the matter is basically the same after a year. Quote: Lastly, because the skill system is the same for everyone, it's not necessarily good or bad. It is equal. Help, I can't download EVE President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub PLEX: A Giffen good? (It's 1B?)
Rain6637 GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 33257	Posted - 2016.01.29 03:25:29 - [22] - Quote yeah but higher SP players are supposed to need it less. and it is a consistent system. mike I know there's no way you do this in person. Then no one would talk to you. Help, I can't download EVE President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub PLEX: A Giffen good? (It's 1B?)
Rain6637 GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 33280	Posted - 2016.02.06 05:05:55 - [23] - Quote I thought any nonzero AUR cost was excessive, but then I remembered there are real labor costs for developing the mechanic, bug fixing, and customer service / ticket support related to the transactions. Discounting those operating costs would be bad accounting just like high sec industrialists who discount their time as "free." It was ambiguous to say "the value is in the SP" but overall I think the AUR cost is fair. Help, I can't download EVE President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub PLEX: A Giffen good? (It's 1B?)
Rain6637 GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 33280	Posted - 2016.02.06 05:21:50 - [24] - Quote Natsuko can't hear you, they're playing Blade & Soul. Help, I can't download EVE President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub PLEX: A Giffen good? (It's 1B?)
Rain6637 GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 33284	Posted - 2016.02.09 10:44:31 - [25] - Quote Congratulations you guys figured out relative hard cost. Here's the rub: PLEX will be consumed for extractors, while ISK can be won by playing. And then due to the SP penalty, the consumption to production ratio is worse than 1:1. PLEX will look something like 2 to 2.5 Billion, .54 PLEX will be 1 B. Help, I can't download EVE President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub PLEX: A Giffen good? (It's 1B?)
Rain6637 GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 33285	Posted - 2016.02.09 12:34:13 - [26] - Quote players are fighting for lowest sell order when The Americans haven't woken up yet. Help, I can't download EVE President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub PLEX: A Giffen good? (It's 1B?)
Rain6637 GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 33285	Posted - 2016.02.09 12:49:26 - [27] - Quote I quit my job just to witness the SP apocalypse Help, I can't download EVE President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub PLEX: A Giffen good? (It's 1B?)
Rain6637 GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 33288	Posted - 2016.02.09 12:56:43 - [28] - Quote I have an alt in Jita AMA Help, I can't download EVE President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub PLEX: A Giffen good? (It's 1B?)
Rain6637 GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 33291	Posted - 2016.02.11 18:05:54 - [29] - Quote Berrice Silf wrote: Memphis Baas wrote: You playing 5 accounts on WoW / Destiny? You illiterate or something, i've shut 5 accounts down now i just have this to watch the mess unfold I just have this account Berrice Silf to keep track of what is happeneing. Soft really as the dev's seem to pay more attention to whats said on reddit than where they paying customers actually post I think Memphis was just asking if you multibox WoW or Destiny Help, I can't download EVE President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub PLEX: A Giffen good? (It's 1B?)
Rain6637 GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 33293	Posted - 2016.02.12 04:31:43 - [30] - Quote I want to believe this is the intermediate step before making reps fully turret-formula. Help, I can't download EVE President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub PLEX: A Giffen good? (It's 1B?)

Rain6637 GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 33344	Posted - 2016.02.15 19:57:21 - [31] - Quote Ironbank should have kept going with more unallocated SP for the sake of future proofing. Help, I can't download EVE President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub PLEX: A Giffen good? (It's 1B?)
Rain6637 GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 33371	Posted - 2016.02.17 11:38:43 - [32] - Quote I want to see the end of the NES sale on extractor packs. Help, I can't download EVE President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub PLEX: A Giffen good? (It's 1B?)
Rain6637 GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 33959	Posted - 2016.06.23 15:00:09 - [33] - Quote Sgt Ocker wrote: OutCast EG wrote: Quote: ItGÇÖs very important to note here that this means all the skillpoints available to buy on the market in EVE will have originated on other characters where they were trained at the normal rate. Player driven economies are key to EVE design and we want you to decide the value of traded skillpoints while we make sure there is one single mechanism that brings new skillpoints in to the system GÇô training. HA HA CCP are getting pretty good at contradicting (telling lies) themselves and moving the goal posts as it suits them. Roll on Dailies - Coming May 24 2016 - SP on the market that wasn't trained by anyone at the "normal rate". Player driven economies (the key to eve design) have been replaced with CCP driven manipulation of the value of SP. This is the bait and switch I can't seem to convey to people. Help, I can't download EVE President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub PLEX: A Giffen good? (It's 1B?)

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