We werenGÇÖt sure exactly what to expect but it quickly became clear that many of you were able to see the potential benefits and that youGÇÖre also ready for some big changes in EVE, especially when they might help bring in newer players or give you more freedom with your own characters.

I'm not sure how you come to the conclusion that there was a positive attitude about TSP's. I posted many times in that dev blog & there was a majority of people against it, commonly quoting a line from a CCP guy that said something along the lines of, paying extra money into eve should never give a skill advantage over someone with a regular subscription. The point was that you shouldn't be doing this. It's a terrible idea.

I am heavily against it. There is pages and pages of rage on that thread about people not liking this pay-to-win money grabbing attitude proposed by Eve-Online.

Current:

Sorry Tommy, you can't play with us because you don't have X skill. Please wait [insert long wait time here] before you can come play with the big boys. Or you can spend hundreds of dollars buying PLEX to buy a character and give up your current character.

Future:

Hey Tommy, come play with us. Here's some SP to get you started. If you need more, you can get a jump start with a PLEX or two if you want to skip a couple weeks or a month of waiting.

Future Tommy seems to have better options...

The only thing that's destructive about this change is the death of SP leaderboard onanism. Fortunately, such masturbatory pursuits, like real masturbation, are completely meaningless.

Feels good though

I'm pretty kin about this new chapter in EVE. I don't really understand the whole "it will hurt/kill the newbro" perspective. For some reason that view point comes up every time, no matter how much or little it affects that particular segment. One thing I would like; however, is perhaps having the ability to see how many skill points a particular character has. It would be disheartening for an actual newbro to get into a duel with someone around the same toon age, but they have 20m+ for skillpoints.

300,000 SP per injector in the 50m-80m bracket is a bit too steep. Bump it up to 400k at least. That's the bracket which is going to have your #1 skill packet consumer. Put a hard 0% utilisation at around 100m SP and it's all good.

Well I can hope beyond reason CCP will see this and consider it, but my guess is going to be not likely.

One of the ways in which I think you should change this for the vets is you remove the restrictions on sp incoming if you've had sp outgoing.

For example. Lets say I'm 120mil sp. Over the years CCP has made a lot of changes to skills over time that are regarded not nearly as important as they once were and now I have *useless* (to me) sp. I'd love to be able to move that SP to other skills.

So lets say I do one extraction for 500k sp. I'm then allowed to buy an injector and use the full 500k. However, the next injector I bought would still be liable for the 150k amount.

If you want you could even subject this to certain limits, like I could only *move* 2mil sp a year like that etc.

Player is still paying market costs etc and CCP still gets its share. Otherwise will be a nice feature for noobs, something else I'm not ever going to use as a bitter vet with 3 chars above 120mil sp.

If your goal is to provide "options to help new players with progression" why is this change allowed to affect characters with more than say 50 mill SP?

Did your lead designer not pose the question of how much assistance new players needed to be competitive? Or did your Senior Producers simply rejoice at the idea of more people engaging with these micro-transactions on their older accounts?

The exclusivity of the early adoption SP pool for your title is gone, what separated a player of 4 or 10 years is now nothing other than their employment history and DOB.

Haha, yeah I remember that. Was hilarious how quickly the mood changes once Elise put his two cents in.

That being said, I was talking specifically about today's reaction, not when it was first thrown out.

Ok, now Dear CCP please explain, why whould one ever play with with all that useless starter level contenet in that game if one could just dotane x amont of PLEX and buy top tier stuff?

day 1 newbro wants to play meatshield for "big boys"? Donate and fly FOTM.

t1 frigs? Forget. Buy a drug and inject it to get that keres!.

t1 cruisers? Forget. Buy a drug and inject it to get that cerb/prot.whatever is Ishtar ATM.

Or just go big and donate your way to Caps, sit, waiting for a ping, alt+tab, play WOT.

Want to do some 1-4 missions? Forget. Buy a drug and inject it to get that AFKtar, come back to get moar SP \0/ (or use a bot in dead-end system for that extra oumpf)

Thats sad that major source of isk in that game is ratting -> grind.

Welcome the new Korean style EVE:G , grind your way to "top".

next step is enchantments for my Moros!
Great idea, to have it at least +8! It should shine with blue color!

This will be if released as planned, the very first Pay2Win item in EVE.

Up until now all items bought through the New Eden Store have been nothing more than fancy clothing and ship skins. nothing that will give a player an advantage over another. After this update, we are one step closer to a Pay2Win model.

The GÇ£Skill ExtractorGÇ¥ should be available by other methods as well as the New Eden Store. Perhaps from CONCORD and/or Sansha LP stores at a high price.

Have injectors for individual skills been considered yet?
This would solve many of the issues that have been brought up.
Not only would individual skill injectors bring more complexity to this market, but it makes things more similar to the character bazaar: in order for a skill to be marketed, someone else would've had to buy, train, and extract that specific skill.
The main advantage of this is that the skill market remains a closed bubble; this way if I sell all of the SP for Amarr Carrier V, it gets re-marketed as Amarr Carrier V to another player instead of just giving them a ton of raw SP that they can redistribute into anything they want, potentially allowing them to gain an unfair advantage.

You have had a lot of feedback, mostly negative and have chosen to ignore it, so why are you requesting more feedback?

As I said, a punch in the face for all veteran players...but sadly we are too few to be important to CCP. At least cut this stupid system at 80 million SP. You shouldn't be able to buy SP if you' character has 80+ mil SP. That makes no sense at all and shows again that CCP only wants to extract the last $$$ out of a dying game.

Be prepared to see this character in a short amount of time in the character bazaaar

That depends on the price of skills. Say it costs 2500 ISK per skillpoint to buy these (making a skillpack about the price of a PLEX). Then 10 million SP costs 30 billion ISK from 0 and more if you already have SPs, which is non-trivial. Being competitive at cruiser size ships with some options (i.e. not just one race/hull, not just one weapon system, etc) would probably need 15-20 million SP so that's quite a lot of ISK to either grind or buy.

right as a new player you tell me i need to shell out cash just to play the game then you tell me i have to pay more to play competitively that will be great for bringing in newbros

Quite a few posts in this thread are pro- this change, and I'm guessing Reddit and the internet at large aren't quite as against this as you. So why do you assume they aren't listening to player feedback? In addition, forums have about 1000 posters; the only way to reach the 30,000+ in-game is to implement this feature and see what they do.

which is why they asked new players, who it was ment for.....

Designed for New Players (or characters, depending on price it might be more difficult for them to get)
and middle class
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GZXowkNfyN8

91% agree for his video.

Since when do they do this? Ever? And if such votes are so important, why do you play a game where they never have them? Also people need to learn that feedback != a vote.

and i just started Anabuki 3 weeks ago. and was asked my opinion of it during the talk with the GM where they ask how your doing starting off.


also
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GZXowkNfyN8
11:51

Constantly, via the Bazaar, training certs, and most commonly the sub you pay to play the game. Do you think CCP doesn't know people often keep subs while inactive just for SP?

That's not what you asked, nor relevant to the fact that CCP doesn't do votes on changes. That it's this change doesn't make it somehow super special everyone gets treated like an internal decision maker time.

I don't understand why they would need to hear your opinion about how they want to earn their money? what company would let their customers vote about if they can implement a certain way to earn money? Has your bank ever let you vote, before they change how they earn money (introducing extra charges on credit cards etc)? No, they do not. I don't understand why computer game companies has to have another code of business honor, than other companies?

Quite a few posts in this thread are pro- this change, and I'm guessing Reddit and the internet at large aren't quite as against this as you. So why do you assume they aren't listening to player feedback? In addition, forums have about 1000 posters; the only way to reach the 30,000+ in-game is to implement this feature and see what they do.

Well, not really. It would be hard to know what people really want from that vote.

This is of course without considering how ridiculous it would be to get everyone to vote for something this small.

and including how many people have alts that would use the alts to gain more votes for their opinion

did you read my post at all? Because I explained in simple words, why that would be biased and not give you the answer you want.

yes, but the silent minority who would not care or be against, would not vote. They would count as pro SP trading (they are not against), from CCPs point of view. If they did the vote like you say, they fix their own survey against themselves. Who would do that?

or. CCP could look at Reddit, see how many more upvoted than downvoted.

they could compare these numbers to facebook, how many likes it recieved.

instead of putting it in 1 place(IE in game), they can get the feeling from people who are considering playing as well(potential new players)
and people who may be inactive (cause skill que online only needs you to log in once a month)
and active players.


there are college courses for polling methods. go take one =/


reddit says 88-92% support
similar number of likes on facebook to reddit
and videos talking about it that support it get 92% likes to dislikes.


so 92% support. Skill Injector is approved

LOL
sendd an EVE mail, and then read EVERY SINGLE RESPONSE.

RIP THE INTERNS. THEY NEVER HAD A CHANCE.



they did make this thread to discuss comprises (of which the ones said were limiting to a few per 6 months, or capping out at a level of SP, or keeping for new player tutorials.)

but. the thread had negative nancy doomcallers who flooded it with spam calls of greed, end of the game, and corruption.


so they likely decided "its the same 5 people spamming over and over. lets just go to other sources that don't have someone's finger on the copy paste key"



after all, its hard to have a conversation to reach a compromise when theres a 3rd person throwing crap at you in between each line of dialogue

They did ask back in October.

You can disagree all you want, it does not invalidate my point. And a faulty survey is faulty. There is no "better than what we have now", there is only reliable data and unreliable data. Your survey would paint a wrong picture of the truth, hence has no value.

it did affect the descision

for higher total SP captains. they now get more SP from injectors than was originally planned.
why? because alot of PLAYERS wanted it that way

this is a poll
http://i.imgur.com/lgXNmsG.png

a poll that is 92% positive to it


this is also a poll
http://i.imgur.com/o1k1Pxs.png

that is 88% positive to it


this is also a poll
http://i.imgur.com/Rflvo75.png

that is 92% positive to it







you know what a poll is right? it doesnt need to be on EVE's main page. because not many visit the main page. or read the launcher.

and people who CARE about the topic, have gone to these. and voted.

they not hard to find. just type eve skill injector to google.

I agree on this part. Personally I can understand though how one can loose the motivation to answer (also the very good points), when you see the tone in which some people reply. It is not optimal to ignore the threads, but I do understand it from CCPs point of view, when you are just trying to do your job, and is met with sometimes extreme negativity.

which is why you use MULTIPLE sources

reddit, facebook, various youtube videos, fanfest.

all positive.

valid eve accounts

aka, alts

which also fails to take the opinion of potential future players. or players who are taking a break from EVE


OR PLAYERS WHO AREN'T LOGGING ON CAUSE SKILL QUE ONLINE ONLY NEEDS THEM ONCE A MONTH

potential future players are needed

and again, skill que online is not a good way to get people's attention

3rd party sites that people ACTUALLY FREQUENT is better than the EVE site or in game where skill que online means people don't log in often.

as only people who frequent eve site or online are likely people who have SP already. and thus wouldnt benefit much from this.

Well, a lot of people were plainly rejecting the idea. Some were threatening to unsup. Some of the posters, like Suede (in this thread) got stuck in 2011, and are passive agressively threatening CCP that this will end like the summer of rage, eventhough it is pretty clear that ship has sailed. Do you honestly think this is constructive and worth listening to?

The only thing that could have lend you the ears of the devs, would have been an discussion on how to adjust their current idea, so it is easier for some to swallow. But that did not happen. Rejecting an idea or wanting a rollback (like the new overviewicons) is not civil, but quite aggressive, like all ultimatums are.