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Keitaro Baka Babylon Scientific and Industrial Enterprises Babylon Project	Posted - 2007.01.25 20:01:00 - [1] Been explaininig a few things far too often, lets make a thread that might help as a reference guide, while studying ofcourse .. it turned out a bit big, but I had a lot to say.. Before I start I should probably mention i'm a drone purist, the only reason I have a laser on my domi is to aggro rats (and laser means no ammo, always useful) and I now have about 5.3M sp in drones (also I can't use fighters, so these are pure drone sp). Now that I have sounded arrogant enough to say I know a thing or two about drones: I know a thing or two about drones. I'm gonna limit this story to drones and non-capital ships, ie no fighters and carriers/moros stuff here. - First things first, the ship.. Gallente have most of the drone shippies, although the amarr have a couple drone beauties too, and certain other ships work well with drones (for instance a Typhoon). There can however only be one king and for me that is the Dominix: this cheapest of battleships has a dronebay of 375 (something that the Ishtar can only achieve with lvl 5 HAC and the Eos can't even get with lvl 5 Command Ships..). I suppose the Ishtar is a close second, but with 2 low slots less and lacking the ability to put on heavy nos (something very useful for drone purists), I firmly believe the Dominix at it's lower (and insurable) price, quicker to learn BS lvl 5 and BS sized fittings is your best bet overall. Now there are ofcourse many situation where you would rather have a HAC or Recon cruiser, but at that time you will probably already have 5M sp in drones. - Secondly, the skills.. Time for the skills. As mentioned before, tech II drones are very easy to learn. T2 medium drones are however (at this time) horribly expensive, so before you go off to learn t2 drones lets get some things straight. T2 drones improve your dps considerably. I ran some tests when i could first use t2 meds and my finding was: - A Tech II drone will do hits comparable to a tech I drone of one class higher. A tech I heavy drone hurts as much per shot as a tech II medium drone. Drone dps is however not just related to damage per second while shooting. A medium drone has a higher rate of fire, but is also faster, a lot faster, and drones need to travel a lot when clearing a group of enemies. I know for a fact that 5 random t2 light drones clear a room of frigates, cruisers and battlecruisers faster than 5 t2 ogre heavy drones. So don't be afraid to use t2 light drones at first. Your ship will need to be able to tank a lot anyway, and light t2 drones are incredibly fast and have such a high rate of fire, most rats won't be able to tank anyway. - All the stuff above does not necessarily reflect my corp, my alliance or even me - Pure drone user... give us a mini carrier and faction Typhoon and Dominix please - Read up on http://mye
Keitaro Baka Babylon Scientific and Industrial Enterprises Babylon Project	Posted - 2007.01.25 20:02:00 - [2] Edited by: Keitaro Baka on 25/01/2007 20:05:17 Edited by: Keitaro Baka on 25/01/2007 20:04:41 for urls again Back to the skills: Drones û lvl 5 is a must really Drone interfacing û lvl 4 is a must, lvl 5 is really really really good (sure it takes a while but consider the impact of 20% extra damage, that's 2 levels of most of your ship skills on a drone ship..). Combat drones û lvl 4 is a must if you plan to use light and medium drones much (which you should) Scout drones û lvl 5 is a must, you start with 20km control range, 5km for each lvl of this skill is not only useful, the skill at 5 is needed to get t2 drones E/W drone operation û useful skill, but one drone link module gives 20km, lvl 5 on this skill only gives 15km drone control range.. Drone navigation û sharp double edged skill: makes your drones MWD faster, but it also makes them overshoot more, after getting it at lvl 4 I wished I left it at lvl 3.. Drone sharpshooting û the second double edged skill, far less than the first tho.. It improves your drones optimal range, I'll talk about that later, but it can lower your dps in certain scenarios.. Drone durability û funny, helps a bit, train it to lvl 4 if you have spare time, but drones pop easily, this skill will not be the tie breaker against experienced people. Then the big ones.. will you go for heavy drones or sentry drones.. in my honest opinion the ranking is a bit like this: Heavy tech II drones >> Sentry drones > Heavy tech I drones So yes, t2 heavy drones are the wtfpwnz0rbbqgrill of drones, but if you can't use em, substitute sentries iso heavy tech I.. I feel that sentry drones are great for pve and have their uses in pvp. My domi never leaves station without 'em (I tend to take wardens, since they are the long range type and kinetic damage is usually pretty good, and I also have a tech II heavy drones for short range. Before I had those I just used 5 wardens and 5 gardes and assorted t2 combat drones. For more info on sentries here). So in time you're looking at: Sentry drones û lvl 4, lvl 5 is optional and unless we get tech II sentries (please) really only if you use sentries a lot (as in you have a sentry drone dmg rig on aswell). Heavy drones û lvl 5, without question, only use tech II heavy drones, tech I are for suicide Megathrons and even they should carry sentries in my opinion. And of course there are the specialisation skills, get them all and all to lvl 2 or 4, one of the reasons drones are so hard hitting is because you can choose specific damage types, so you will want tech II drones of all types available to you (heavy t2 drones require the specialisation skills at lvl 4) and the skill gives another 2% dmg bonus to the drones that need the skill. These skills are cheapest in the racial regions, and are about 8.5M isk each iirc. - All the stuff above does not necessarily reflect my corp, my alliance or even me - Pure drone user... give us a mini carrier and faction Typhoon and Dominix please - Read up on http://mye
Keitaro Baka Babylon Scientific and Industrial Enterprises Babylon Project	Posted - 2007.01.25 20:03:00 - [3] Edited by: Keitaro Baka on 25/01/2007 20:06:05 NB: the Advanced drone interfacing skill is ONLY useful for carrier pilots, the mod you can use with it is just for carriers. third, how do I use drones in a nutshell Well to start you will need to know your enemy. Basically lets start by dividing this section into pvp and pve, starting with pve. The useful thing about fighting pve is that you (should) know exactly who they are and how their tank works, ie what kind of drone to take. Again I have to insert some personal experience here: Just because a rat is weakest on EM, doesn't mean you should bring EM drones. Unlike missiles (because lets face it, drones are a lot like missiles in that they only do one type of damage, take time to reach the enemy before they do that damage, and can be killed before they do damage) drones have dmg multipliers. Take for instance a EM drone vs a Thermal drone .. The em drone has higher tracking and higher velocity (very good) but the thermal drone has a higher dmg multiplier (think 50% higher). In most situations the Ogre II will be a better pick (most EM weakest rats have Thermal as the second lowest resistance). I should mention here: Amarr drones do EM damage, are fast and have decent hitpoints Minmatar drones do Explosive damage, are beyond fast and do good damage Caldari drones do Kinetic damage, have high shield hitpoints, will talk later on this Gallente drones do Thermal damage, slow but do the best damage The sentries not only have this setup, but add different ranges, 30, 40 , 50 and 20 km base optimal iirc. Also, although they have an activation range of 250 km, sentries very rarely do any damage beyond 100km. More on activation range later. Now you know your enemy and have picked you drone. Lets talk aggro. Most of you will know what aggro is, but for those of you that don't: A ship that commits an aggressive act on your ship is considered aggroed to you. Similarly are you aggroed towards and enemy by an aggressive act. The red blinking targetting brackets in EvE are the indication here. Lets not be comfortable with rats shooting our drones (although it can be a valid tactic, i know my sentries have taken a lot of rat aggro) and try and avoid mass aggro in mishes (missions). In some missions you will get jumped on by the entire room just for launching drones, no way to avoid that. Not shooting rat sentry turrets and structures is a good way to start and I like to get aggro on me before unleashing the drones. This means bringing something that is considered an aggressive act to get those rats going. If you use guns, any gun will of course do. If you don't there are other options. Sticking a small/medium laser on is a great way, they don't take ammo. A target painter is also useful, but takes up a med slot, while it's usually the high slots you have spare. Webbers and nos have a max range and are therefore not really useful to cause aggro. - All the stuff above does not necessarily reflect my corp, my alliance or even me - Pure drone user... give us a mini carrier and faction Typhoon and Dominix please - Read up on http://mye
Keitaro Baka Babylon Scientific and Industrial Enterprises Babylon Project	Posted - 2007.01.25 20:04:00 - [4] Edited by: Keitaro Baka on 25/01/2007 20:06:41 It does happen sometimes that you have one group aggroed and are having fun (afk?) watching your drones ignoring your commands, when suddenly you see the shields on one or more of your drones vanish.. this means your drones have somehow attracted aggro. This could have happened because they came too close to a different group (although in some missions I've seen mine kill a rat that has flown inside a non-aggroed group without any consequences, so it's a bit random). Sometimes it's best to retrieve it (return and dock), sometimes it's best to immediately attack the rat that is shooting them. Drones are very easy to hit while flying (mwd on drones works the same as on ships, exploding sig radius) so chose carefully. Since they orbit at short range they are hard to hit when attacking, especially for long range rats. Medium tech II drones rip through frigates like a mega pulse through butter, but like I said they are quite expensive and relatively slow compared to light t2 drones. For pve I therefore recommend using light t2 drones on anything that uses drones as secondary weapon (Raven, Megathron, anything with the large high dmg weapons that will have trouble with frigates). An added bonus is you can usually bring back up light t2 where a raven for instance can only carry 5 medium drones.. I also recommend light t2 drones for the domi pilots that use heavy tech II drones. If you use sentry drones I recommend using medium t2 drones, since even Garde sentry drones will have a lot of trouble killing cruisers circling within 25 km. And here we come to the afore mentioned problems the Drone sharpshooting skill can cause: I have it trained up quite high to make sure my Wardens kill anything within 100 km, sadly this also means my Gardes prefer 30km iso 20 km. They still rule for shooting stationary targets as close as 2 km, but moving targets have to be BS size to be hit nicely. Like I said, once you have tech II heavies, this isn't a problem, 25 km is a workable distance for these drones and the dmg output is great. The auxiliary drones are useless in pve unless you're remote repping someone. The webber drones are large (25m^3 each) drones and could therefore be used by a blasterthron in mishes (to compensate the lack of mwd).. but who does that anyways, just bring rails and combat drones. So now pvp.. I have to be honest here and say my pvp experience is old apart from the occasional rabble in empire. But I have been talking to a lot of people and seen/heard many ideas/tactics. Drone ships aren't in fleets. Many a fleet commander forbids it, and when you think about it, it makes sense. Drones cause lag, you can't warp instantly without losing your drones and unless you are using sentry drones, they have to travel to the enemy to start hurting them. If you do use sentries their maxium range is 100km (basic stuff really, check the tracking guide for more info, but basically guns don't do much outside optimal+fallof), which is usually not enough for fleet combat. It also means using at least 2 drone links to be able to get 100km control range, which means 2 less big guns. Bringing a domi to a fleet means you will most likely be the repair guy (and why not, you can fit a full rack of both shield and armour maintenance drones, large ones at that). Small gang pvp: well you do see the drone ships here, but to be fair you see all sorts in small gang because people become creative. I usually think of small gangs as being nimble and easily redeployed, which can be a problem with drone ships, but the Ishtar is a great HAC and performs very well in small gangs. The Ishkur is a rat ship in my opinion because of the lack of drone dmg bonus and the small drone bay (not even 2 full sets of 5 tech II lights when you have lvl 5 assault). - All the stuff above does not necessarily reflect my corp, my alliance or even me - Pure drone user... give us a mini carrier and faction Typhoon and Dominix please - Read up on http://mye
Keitaro Baka Babylon Scientific and Industrial Enterprises Babylon Project	Posted - 2007.01.25 20:05:00 - [5] The Curse and Pilgrim are great drone ships and have the natural strength of drone dmg ships in their bonus. The sucking of the cap, the draining of energy, Nos and Neut. When you can use drones as your main weapon, you get free high slots. Energy is important, so important that most pvp BS won't leave dock without a cap injector and every square cm of cargo left after ammo stuffed with cap charges. This brings us to the dreaded Nosdomi. Used mainly in solo pvp, the Nosdomi has been referred to as the 'Iwinbutton', Solopwnmobile' and what not in recent years. Since ecm was introduced to the nerfbat however, the Nosdomi has evolved. Many current Nosdomi's use a dual repper setup, with heavy injector and an array of medium nos (powergrid issues) with tracking disruptor/remote sensor dampener to help keep the drones alive. Many have been training the tech II large blasters to use 'the other' bonus on the domi, although this takes an awful lot of skills (again with the fitting). The operating range of these vessels is very short. You want to be within webber and medium nos range (12km with good mods, 10km with regular stuff). This has as a bonus the drone drag 'n drop tactic: You drop your drones on target, as soon as they get fired on, you retrieve and re-drop them with full shield (sweet stuff, the only reason drones can still be considered viable weapons in pvp tbh). What people who .. utter their concerns about this, repeatedly .. don't seem to realise, is that this drops a domi's dps considerably. If i'm hugging the enemy I can usually have them in and out within 5 seconds.. that's 2 missed salvo's. Another considerable bonus to being on top of your enemy in the fight is that you are the closest target, meaning FoF missiles will hit you and not your drones. I'm very much against gate camps, but I understand the need to protect territory, so what I would like to see is some creative drone usage. Have sentries hanging several km from the gate while you are on top of it. You will be a huge tackler for them, see em rip through anything once you have double webbed it. Sentry drones are cheap and with the warp-to-0 possibilities you could use 'em in ways new and fresh :). They also have the hitpoints of a small cruiser on a domi, making them hard to pop and smartbombs will rarely reach them. That should be enough about the combat use of drones. Now for the most important thing, drone AI operation, useful for both drone users and drone fighters. Drones right now (rev 1, Jan 25 2007) are bugged and bugged hard. They sometimes get stuck on each other when returning, causing them to hang outside scoop range, they sometimes forget your orders and just attack random viable targets, unlike any of the other weapon systems (not counting smartbombs) there are no t2 mods for them, no damage mod whatsoever, no implants and not all t2 versions are available (sentry). You can't make short cuts for them, the UI is horrible (if you're in a gang/fleet and still want to keep an eye on your drones in space and the overview, best run 1600x1200 stuff), no buttons, no info on drones apart from the base stats (so no account of your skills, ship boni, etc.) the list goes on. Then there are the changes to drones where you can't use your maintenance drones on your own drones any more (argh!, change this back please!!). - All the stuff above does not necessarily reflect my corp, my alliance or even me - Pure drone user... give us a mini carrier and faction Typhoon and Dominix please - Read up on [url="http://mye
Keitaro Baka Babylon Scientific and Industrial Enterprises Babylon Project	Posted - 2007.01.25 20:06:00 - [6] Edited by: Keitaro Baka on 25/01/2007 20:07:54 But the most important thing is people get confused with what drones will and will not do automatically. So lets learn : Drones that are within the control range of their controller will perceive anything that aggroes or has aggroed the controller, from any distance, as a viable target. It will be placed in the 'to do list'. If the drones are in attack mode they will work through this list at random until dead, the list is empty or they are put on 'return' (either to orbit or drone bay). - Drones that are idle (this is the state a drone is in after launch and after it has completed a 'to do list') will automatically attack anything that aggroes the controller, from any range. Drones that are returning and orbiting (this is the state they are in after you have recalled them to orbit you and only after that command) will only automatically attack anything the controller aggroes himself. Please read these last things again and again until you understand them. This means that if you ever tell a drone to return and orbit it will not respond to enemy aggro anymore. It also means drones will attack outside your control range and/or lock range, something very useful in missions with those pesky sentry turrets outside your control and lock range, just drop some sentries to kill the last thing you can lock and is within control range, let them destroy it and watch as they kill those 95 km turrets. Another often misunderstood thing is drone activation range or activation proximity. Lets pick a drone to explain this with. The warrior II is the scourge of any interceptor, even a snake set will have trouble surviving these puppies with proper skills, just look at them.. so what sticks out: Optimal range 1000m, activation proximity 1000m, orbit velocity 900m/s, max velocity over 5000m/s.. but what does it all mean for the drone.. A drone has several modes, or functions if you will. While in attack mode (doing the whole 'to do list') it will switch between several functions: the mwd towards target at max velocity, the shoot at enemy and the orbit enemy are the main ones here. Basically, if the enemy is within activation proximity, the drone will perform the orbit and shoot functions. If the enemy is outside activation proximity it will do the mwd function. Notice here the importance of the activation proximity: this is the orbit the drone will follow, no matter how big the optimal range!! This means some drones don't orbit at their optimal range and increasing it might be very useful or slightly harmful !! If you check out the sentries you will see they have the 250 km activation range, which is also the capped lock range in EvE atm, so they will fire on anything that aggroes you within the rules mentioned above. This means that anything travelling faster than the orbit speed of a drone but slower than the max velocity of that drone can still be killed by that drone (although the drone will like it is learning to drive with the constant mwd-ing). It is however a true mwd, so a drone will coast (I know this is one of the problems fighters have) and can therefore easily overshoot the enemy, meaning a drop in dps due to not shooting efficiently or not shooting at all for a few secs. - All the stuff above does not necessarily reflect my corp, my alliance or even me - Pure drone user... give us a mini carrier and faction Typhoon and Dominix please - Read up on http://mye
Keitaro Baka Babylon Scientific and Industrial Enterprises Babylon Project	Posted - 2007.01.25 20:06:00 - [7] Alright, that should be about enough for now, if anyone has extra info or I made a mistake, lemme know in here or in game, I'll try and rectify it asap. I'll leave you with a few useful tips: 1: Your ship is not your pod, and your drones are not your ship. I have never been in a situation where it was worth it to stay just to get my drones back, while in a burning ship with a broken tank. I know it's hard but just leave them behind if you feel like you need to get out. 2: Know the limits of your drones and ship, know when to let your drones run free and when to command them.. these days I just use my heavy t2 drones in lvl 4 mishes to kill everything, controlled BS destruction and then I let them free roam the rest: it goes faster that way, but make sure you can tank the whole room if you do that.. 3: With drones, more is better, only after that is bigger important, and sometimes you would rather have small. A full set of lights will do better than 2 meds and 1 light or 1 med and 3 lights, not to mention 1 heavy. After that you can vary if you want, but remember, with drones being the only weapon system that can be destroyed (quite easily nowadays if you know what you're doing), spare drones are good if they are you're only means of attack. 4: fly safe and take care of your drones 5: When starting a thread don't make it into an essay - All the stuff above does not necessarily reflect my corp, my alliance or even me - Pure drone user... give us a mini carrier and faction Typhoon and Dominix please - Read up on [url="http://mye
David Caldera Gallente Zalfir Industries	Posted - 2007.01.25 20:09:00 - [8] I would have liked your guide more if the links actually worked and didn't mess up the layout so much. Still a nice read though. Quite interesting. David Caldera
Keitaro Baka Babylon Scientific and Industrial Enterprises Babylon Project	Posted - 2007.01.25 20:15:00 - [9] Originally by: David Caldera I would have liked your guide more if the links actually worked and didn't mess up the layout so much. Still a nice read though. Quite interesting. Daimn you people are fast.. I noticed the url problem after the first reply, but figured i'd better copy paste reply and edit afterwards so really fast people like you wouldn't be replying between the main thread issue. Thanx tho, hope it helps :) - place holder for interesting extra info or maybe extended info - - All the stuff above does not necessarily reflect my corp, my alliance or even me - Pure drone user... give us a mini carrier and faction Typhoon and Dominix please - Read up on [url="http://mye
Valandril Caldari Resurrection R i s e	Posted - 2007.01.25 21:00:00 - [10] Sticky stick, very good guid, altho i won't agree with u about sentrys beeing so leet :P ----------------- Flamedrone II belonging to Valandril perfectly strikes you, wrecking your topic.
The Conduit	Posted - 2007.01.25 21:20:00 - [11] That's a very nice & informative guide. Thanks for taking the time to write it out & share it with us.
Tulisin Dragonflame	Posted - 2007.01.26 02:00:00 - [12] Yay, not many drone guides floating around.
Niko Succorso Red Dwarf Mining Corps	Posted - 2007.01.26 02:13:00 - [13] Excellent stuff, straightforward and informative. Who's got the sticky-paste?
Taipan Gedscho Taipan Industries	Posted - 2007.01.26 02:19:00 - [14] Edited by: Taipan Gedscho on 26/01/2007 02:20:23 im pretty sure, the thing about garde sentries and drone sharpshooting is wrong. Originally by: Keitaro Baka And here we come to the afore mentioned problems the Drone sharpshooting skill can cause: I have it trained up quite high to make sure my Wardens kill anything within 100 km, sadly this also means my Gardes prefer 30km iso 20 km. They still rule for shooting stationary targets as close as 2 km, but moving targets have to be BS size to be hit nicely. a higher sharpshooting skill gives your gardes the ability to hit at 30, where they (of course) hit better than at 20. but without the skill they cant even hit well at 30. in both cases the quality of the hits at 20 is the same. yep. im sure bout that. its late and i cba to get into the mechanics. but im sure it wont be long, till someone explains :)
Keitaro Baka Babylon Scientific and Industrial Enterprises Babylon Project	Posted - 2007.01.26 09:10:00 - [15] Originally by: Taipan Gedscho Edited by: Taipan Gedscho on 26/01/2007 02:20:23 im pretty sure, the thing about garde sentries and drone sharpshooting is wrong. Originally by: Keitaro Baka And here we come to the afore mentioned problems the Drone sharpshooting skill can cause: I have it trained up quite high to make sure my Wardens kill anything within 100 km, sadly this also means my Gardes prefer 30km iso 20 km. They still rule for shooting stationary targets as close as 2 km, but moving targets have to be BS size to be hit nicely. a higher sharpshooting skill gives your gardes the ability to hit at 30, where they (of course) hit better than at 20. but without the skill they cant even hit well at 30. in both cases the quality of the hits at 20 is the same. yep. im sure bout that. its late and i cba to get into the mechanics. but im sure it wont be long, till someone explains :) Well I had a good long think about this and know from experience that my dps at 20km has dropped considerably since learning the skill up, but I think I know what you mean: - consider this: You are absolutely right that the range penalty only comes into play beyond the optimal range. However (for me at least apperently) it's the tracking that drags down the overall performance. I agree that the maths consider there to be no difference: If you have no penalty for range up to your maximum, anything below your optimum that is hit will be hit fully on the rest of the parameters. Here that would mean an identical hit, since the enemy hasn't changed: the same orbit velocity, the same tracking, the same distance and still within optimal. So why has my experience shown differently? I'm not sure, maybe critical hits has a higher chance on optimal range (sounds logical), I'm almost completely sure it wasn't some other bonus from a ship/skill/gang that has influenced this.. So while I agree on the maths, experience has shown it's just not the case.. If someone could shed some more light on this please do, I have tried to make the 'guide' useful through experience, but I do want to keep it correct of couse. - All the stuff above does not necessarily reflect my corp, my alliance or even me - Pure drone user... give us a mini carrier and faction Typhoon and Dominix please
Miso Saemi	Posted - 2007.01.29 18:10:00 - [16] Nice guide. Sticky this please. I have a question. You use Omni Directional Tracking Link ? I was wondering how much they help your drone and if it's worth a med slot. Also, I've read some people use target painter to help drone hit there target. You know if this is true? And if the Omni Directional Tracking Link is better? Thanks for your help. P.S. If you had to chose between a Naxy Vexor and a Myrmidon for ratting which one would you use ? I know the Myrm have 25m3 more drone bay but it's slower.
Liv Dawn	Posted - 2007.01.29 19:39:00 - [17] nice guide and thanks a lot for the effort you ve had to inform the people out there. i d just suggest some more information for starting players and your reasoning more often based on facts rather than experience. not an easy thing to do with drones, i know that. nevertheless really good and informative work.
Taipan Gedscho Taipan Industries	Posted - 2007.01.29 19:40:00 - [18] Originally by: Miso Saemi Nice guide. Sticky this please. I have a question. You use Omni Directional Tracking Link ? I was wondering how much they help your drone and if it's worth a med slot. Also, I've read some people use target painter to help drone hit there target. You know if this is true? And if the Omni Directional Tracking Link is better? Thanks for your help. P.S. If you had to chose between a Naxy Vexor and a Myrmidon for ratting which one would you use ? I know the Myrm have 25m3 more drone bay but it's slower. use the links, youll love them. use the myrm, its cheaper and more effective.
Mog Carns Gallente Industrial Warlords United Confederation of Corporations	Posted - 2007.01.29 20:12:00 - [19] The Omni Directional is better for your drones than target painters, sensor boosters, or or any of the other good stuff. However, those affect you, your drones, your neighbor, his drones... the omni affects only your drones. Worth it? If you got Drone Nav 5 and/or use a drone nav computer or t2 minnie drones and really zipp the little buggers around the battlefield chasing interceptors... yeah, it is totally worth it. If you are zapping battleships with Ogres, not so much. Clueless Noob
Miso Saemi Salvation Sisterhood	Posted - 2007.01.30 15:30:00 - [20] Ok so I got a myrmidon. You think it's better for Pve only (no pvp) that I fit 5 heavys t1 or med and light t2 ? It's to rat vs sansha in 0.0, so cruiser, bc and BS spawn.
Keitaro Baka Babylon Scientific and Industrial Enterprises Babylon Project	Posted - 2007.02.02 22:24:00 - [21] Originally by: Miso Saemi Ok so I got a myrmidon. You think it's better for Pve only (no pvp) that I fit 5 heavys t1 or med and light t2 ? It's to rat vs sansha in 0.0, so cruiser, bc and BS spawn. Hmm good question. You will be ratting in 0.0, cruiser, BC, BS die well using heavy drones, they die faster using medium t2. Sansha's provide a problem tho: you will want to use EM or Thermal against them, and since thermal drones do so much more damage than em drones, in this case you will want thermal drones. Sadly hammerhead II's are (deservedly so perhaps) the most expensive ones out there. The point of using medium drones is that you can carry spares, the point of using medium t2 over heavy t1 is the difference in damage and overall dps they provide. If you carry 10 mediums and 5 lights, you could warp out when you get jumped and still have drones to defend yourself if they catch up with you. Losing 5 hammerhead II's hurts the wallet tho, ogre I's are a lot cheaper and easier to get I reckon, it will mean annoyingly slow drones and an empty bay if you ever have to warp out or get dropped.. So if money isn't an issue, t2 medium and light, otherwise ogre's would be your most efficient bet. Fly safe! All the stuff above does not necessarily reflect my corp, my alliance or even me.. Drone guide..
Pottsey Gallente Enheduanni Foundation	Posted - 2007.02.02 22:29:00 - [22] For PvE the Myrmidon could be the king with a shield tank itÆs something like 5x tougher then a Domi so lvl 4Æs are very easy to solo and it deals another damage to boot while being cheap to buy and fit. The only thing that lets it down is cargo space and drone space. Passive shield tanking guide click here
Pralay Gallente	Posted - 2007.02.03 01:37:00 - [23] Good guide but a little too opinionated and absolute on a few subjects. Like(at least from PVE perspective): * I'd train EW to 4 at least 12km for 0slot is > than 20km 1slot * Domi being best drone ship. Speed, t2 resistances are factors too. * Training all specs(ogres dam bonus almost always is more than resistance diff which you even mention latter on) * Sentries are more usefull than they seem cause they have no travel time, can be scooped instantly(if you don't move) and with simple fitting hit out to 70-80km Pralay
franny Phoenix Knights	Posted - 2007.02.03 07:50:00 - [24] I was expecting a 'drink heavily as drones are dumb as rocks' to be the basics of the post great guide CEO - PKKP Recruitment
Skuld OdinsDottir	Posted - 2007.02.03 09:10:00 - [25] You are wrong saying light drones have 'such a high rate of fire'. Each drone has the same rate of fire wich is 2 secs. still reading the rest but thats the first glaring mistake that popped up.
Keitaro Baka Babylon Scientific and Industrial Enterprises Babylon Project	Posted - 2007.02.03 22:37:00 - [26] Originally by: Skuld OdinsDottir Edited by: Skuld OdinsDottir on 03/02/2007 15:02:48 You are wrong saying light drones have 'such a high rate of fire'. Each drone(light , med, heavy) has the same rate of fire wich is 2 secs. still reading the rest but thats the first glaring mistake that popped up. Thanx for mentioning that, I can see how people might interpret my words in that way. What I meant by this is that they have a high rate of fire compared to most weapons on ships that can field a bunch of drones, not compared to other drones. This means they go through frigs very fast. If more people find the text misleading I will change it, but I think this should clear it up enough. To Pottsey: ya I must say I have been considering the myrmi shield tanked as being better than the domi and I know you have a real bond with passive shield tanked Gallie ships :). All things considered I still think a domi is better, but the myrmidon certainly is a great drone ship (until it gets the nerf bat).. To pralay: upon reading it again I honestly do get your point, I'm giving my opinion quite a lot in there. Heh feel free to step in tho, I consider any feed back cause for investigation. To franny: thnx, I'm all for heavy drinking, just be sure to stay in station or jump clones if you need to operate your vehicle after that All the stuff above does not necessarily reflect my corp, my alliance or even me.. Drone guide..
BluOrange Gallente New Fnord Industries	Posted - 2007.02.04 12:11:00 - [27] Nice guide. Your comments on the sharpshooting skill contradict the dev's explanation of how tracking works - the tracking guide clearly states that falloff applies only outside the optimal range, not inside it. So the reason your sentries are missing at close range is because they have no tracking speed, not because you trained sharpshooting. You really should mention Myrmidon, it gets the same drone bonus as Dominix and has a 125m drone bay. It's not as good, but it's 5 heavies, making it a serious drone carrier. If you want newbie drone pilots to get value, then Vexor is also worth mentioning - 75m gets you 5 medium and 5 light, or 2 heavy, 2 medium and 1 light. I like to mix light EM-dealing drones with heavier drones that do explosive. By the time the explosive drones arrive, the EM drones will have finished with the shields and the carnage intensifies. Combine that with rails or blasters, and if your opponent has a weak spot, you'll hit it. For close combat, fitting webifiers to your main ship increases the effectiveness of your drones against small targets. With a drone navigation link and a drone tracking module, you can use heavy drones effectively in PVE vs frigates and rogue drones. (Lights would be better, but if you've only got 125m to work with, you have to choose.) For group missioning, nothing wins the love and admiration of your corp better than 5 heavy maintenance bots. Each one can tank the damage per second that a battleship puts out, when combined with good resistances. When talking about drone aggro, I didn't see you mention 'engage target', which is pretty important. If you've told them to 'return and orbit', 'engage target' is a good way to get them moving again. If you're flying a Dominix, then you have more options again - sentry drones can be recalled to the drone bay as the enemy closes in and replaced with something more mobile (heavies vs cruisers and larger, lights and mediums vs frigates). I haven't done anything with utility drones yet, but it would be good if they could be covered in detail at some point.
Lady Kinla Dark Empire Fleet	Posted - 2007.02.04 12:38:00 - [28] great guide! You did a very nice job of explaining everything. I call for a sticky! --------------------------- "Did i ask for anyone to copy this into their sig? No ****heads this is my text not yours!" Already disobeyed... W00t! I am no longer a !.
Taketa De Gallente Seneca Federation	Posted - 2007.02.04 20:30:00 - [29] Good guide Originally by: Miso Saemi You use Omni Directional Tracking Link ? I was wondering how much they help your drone and if it's worth a med slot. The big advantage I see in the Tracking Link is when using Sentry drones. Adding 1-2 of them increases both your range and accuracy. But especially the range can count for a lot in some scenarios. --- The Advanced Drone Control Panel.
R34PER	Posted - 2007.02.04 20:51:00 - [30] Requesting sticky! Great guide
Ashina Sito	Posted - 2007.02.05 04:18:00 - [31] Originally by: R34PER Requesting sticky! Great guide QFT!
Atlanton Marcus Caldari Catalyst Reaction	Posted - 2007.02.05 08:57:00 - [32] I'm about to jump into my first Dominix and I have a few questions about my setup. At the moment, I have Drone Interfacing 5, Drone Navigation 5, Drone Sharpshooting 5, Heavy Drone 4, Gallente Drone 3, and Caldari Drone 4. I will be fighting Serpentis, and I'm wondering what drone/drone link combination would make my ratting most efficient.
Serapis No Quarter. C0VEN	Posted - 2007.02.05 11:07:00 - [33] Edited by: Serapis on 05/02/2007 11:13:36 Edited by: Serapis on 05/02/2007 11:12:45 Well dude, when going ratting in your Domi a must is one drone link augmentor, unless you want to catch up with a MWD those orbiting you at 55 km (certain BS only). Another advantage is that you can start sending them to engage immediately after you got the aggro (sometimes the buggers are 60km out when you arrive). For Serpentis use Thermal Drones (Gallente). The rest of your fitting depends on your skills (worse cap skills? - then you might need NOS and / or cap booster charges). In enemy low sec? You might throw in a cloak. I used to rat Sanshas in 0.0 and was all fine with Ogre II. They killed everything in no time. So with your skills I'd start off with just the drone range mod and take care of a proper tank. If you see you can tank your rats easily and can effort switching a med or low slot for a drone mod, then play with the configs. There is no THE setup. But again: First take care of your tank (survivability), THEN think of removing tank mods (survivability mods) for Drone mods (offensive mods). No need to say, that super fast drone wont save your ass, if you can't stand the heat to buy your little soldiers the time to kill the stuff :D BTW, With ~6 mill SP in drones I now it's hard - but ship mods come prior drone mods. *edit: On a last note: I think it wasn't mentioned before in this thread, but when using Heavy Drones vs. small targets (frigs/ destroyers) it may happen that your drones fail to hit all the time. Just recall them to orbit, let them travel a few seconds and order them to attack again. This helps most of the times. If the tackling frig is already sitting on your fold (I hate those NPC frigs orbiting at 5600m - out of SB range - lol), then assign you soldiers a distant target (e.g. a structure)and after a few seconds of traveling reassign them to attack the said tackle frig. This makes life a lot easier - especially, if you have no space for a set of small drones. __________________________________________________ Serapis
3rdD Dave Gallente Dark Entropy Apocalyptica.	Posted - 2007.02.05 11:58:00 - [34] i found with t 2 drone tracking mods my ogre2s wipe the floor with the fast friggies during npcing. Also has anyone ever dropped a set of sentries on top of a gate in 0.0 and controlled them via 60km ( drone augs mods ). I read this is great for when a bubble is deployed and targets warp str8 to the sentries.
Tragus	Posted - 2007.02.10 10:26:00 - [35] Great guide. What are you thoughts on rigs?
Majin82 Caldari g guild	Posted - 2007.02.10 19:22:00 - [36] slap some glue on this, its very well written! ------------------------------------- The difference between a Pirate and an Anti-Pirate is that an Anti-Pirate fights ships fitted with guns! Passive Drake For The Win
Reto The Last Resort	Posted - 2007.02.10 21:22:00 - [37] Pin it on the wall damit ! great stuff ! Originally by: s4mp3r0r "Hey man, you're mom has a cruise missile".
Kua Burrow	Posted - 2007.02.12 12:16:00 - [38] Edited by: Kua Burrow on 12/02/2007 12:21:22 Thanks for the guide :). With regards to the Drone Sharpshooting skill, it seems you are suggesting skilling this up (which improves optimal range - on the face of it a benefit with no negatives attached) actually lowers your effectiveness at the previous optimal range. I see no reason why this would not apply to skills which improve your optimal range for turrets that fit to ships. Can anyone say whether or not this is the case? If so (or even if it ONLY applies to the Drone Sharpshooting skill) it would be good to know EXACTLY what's going on here. IMO this is pretty crucial. Actually all the evidence suggests another factor was coming into play to make your drones deal out less damage (tracking etc. etc.). But I suspect you use drones often :p and your suspicions should not be ignored. This needs looking into!
Janice Warner Gallente Merch Industrial	Posted - 2007.02.12 16:44:00 - [39] Could anyone give me a steer as regards Electronic Warfare drones? I've got a Maulus and a Celestis kitted out with sensor dampers but I want to do a bit more on the Ewar front. What should I be using ECM, Tracking Disruptors, more sensor dampers drones? Not seen much out there on the non-combat drones so any ideas or tactics would be useful thanks.
WredStorm Gallente Garoun Investment Bank	Posted - 2007.02.12 16:51:00 - [40] Originally by: Tragus Great guide. What are you thoughts on rigs? I seem to remember reading either last week or the week before where drone rigs are not working. Someone started a thread on this and I believe a dev chimed in to confirm that drone rigs were not working. Perhaps someone can either provide the link to that thread or otherwise refute/confirm the problem? Wred
Ebodhisatva Gallente hunter killers	Posted - 2007.02.13 12:14:00 - [41] Edited by: Ebodhisatva on 13/02/2007 12:11:13 Thank you very much, it gives a very nice insight view on how things actually works with drones, I use an ishtar mostly, and it is fully drone based, it has 2 rigs for drone range and I also use the drone mods. I'm actually sniping my way thru level 4 missions, in most cases the sentries are very nice to get the aggro while being +100km away from the spawns... most of the rats are dead even before they can get in range to do some real damage to the sentries... When I get the sentries back in the drone bay, the rats automatically target for me, while they start doing that I tend to keep them at a certain range so only the sniper types can hit me, mostly that is easy to tank... atm i'm not able to use the t2 heavies but the t2 meds are really harsh towards fast frigs with a omni tranking link and a drone nav computer, they pop instant... the left over BS'es are easily done with t1 heavies... I guess I can say that your guide simply proves everything I experience doing level 4 missions. Very very nice! ------------------- Should you choose to test my resolve in this matter, you will be facing a finality beyond your comprehension, you will not be counting days, or months, or years but milleniums in
Alyth Gallente Battle Tech	Posted - 2007.02.13 12:34:00 - [42] I have a question about sentry drones. I've only used them a couple of times and generally have had fairly dismal results. I can order them to attack targets within my drone control range, but I am not able to make them fire at targets outside of that range. Besides drone link augmenters, is there any way to get them to fire beyond that range? Am I missing something?
Countess NotFarOut2	Posted - 2007.02.13 14:02:00 - [43] Quote: ..Myrm... 5x tougher then a Domi... Can anyone explain to me why this is?
Jamirie Amarr Lyla Syndicate	Posted - 2007.02.13 14:11:00 - [44] Nice guide, easy to read. Sticky Pl0x!
Stylom Gallente Amarr Navy Runners	Posted - 2007.02.13 14:15:00 - [45] Edited by: Stylom on 13/02/2007 14:11:40 very good guide - would like to echo a few peoples comments. Could we have expanded sections on: 1) Drone mods - pro's / cons / other options 2) Sentry drones - personally I have never got to grips with Sentry drones and like other people who have posted "wonder if I am missing something". Once again thanks for a really good post on a not much talked about subject Cheers Sty
Georges Monluc	Posted - 2007.02.13 17:28:00 - [46] Could use some enlightenment on the oft-quoted multiplier issue; I get the concept, but has anyone articulated a rat-based rule of thumb? IE, use X on Amarr, X on Gurista, X on Serpantis, etc? I'm presently using 5 sm and 5 med T1 drones of the same type as my missile loadout with my mission raven, but it'd be nice to know what I should prioritize for T2 training and when I'll need to expand the repetoire.
BluOrange Gallente New Fnord Industries	Posted - 2007.02.14 08:47:00 - [47] Originally by: Alyth I have a question about sentry drones. I've only used them a couple of times and generally have had fairly dismal results. I can order them to attack targets within my drone control range, but I am not able to make them fire at targets outside of that range. Besides drone link augmenters, is there any way to get them to fire beyond that range? Am I missing something? Try fitting a target painter - they get a massive range, and when you light something up with it, the drones add it to their aggro queue. I'm not sure if this works beyond the drone control range, unfortunately.
Jr Grae Gallente House 0f Shadows	Posted - 2007.02.15 02:43:00 - [48] Great stuff, please give this thing some glue somewhere! Thanks! I reject your reality and substitute my own!
Okapir	Posted - 2007.02.19 13:38:00 - [49] Brilliant, shame its taken me 3 months to find it, why oh! why is this not at sticky?
Damir36 Gallente PPN United Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2007.03.01 12:35:00 - [50] Very Nice, somebody needed to write this up! Dominix ftw! :-) I just wante to endorse some points that are only mentioned in passing. The Webber and the Sentries for hunting/PvP. I have up to now a lot of experience with Sentrys and with Sanshas. (Hunted them for a few Billion ISK bounty only), I have now about 6.4 Million SPs in Drones but that includes Fighters.) 1 Use Webber!!! If you go ratting with a Domi always fit a (good) Webber. I use the True Sansha on with 14 km Range. With the mentioned Droneskills your Sentries (Garde) will kill any Cruiser (Webbed if in Webberrange)in recordtime. Even Frigs up to 8-9 Km orbit you can web and often Instapop with Sentrys. With Sharpshooting and Drone Navigation 5 and the two Omnidirectionals you do not need to bring small or Medium Drones. Just some Garde Sentrys, some Curator Sentrys and some Oger II and the Rats die in no Time (Even frigs) Sometimes you have to disengage the Webber because the Oger II have too much tracking for webbed Frigs. (Do not forget the Drone Link Augumentor)Just Warp to the Belt, wait for Aggro, deploy Sentries, enjoy. If you use Garde and Curator for Sanshas your Opti is from 30-55 Km and Sansha BS orbit you from 18-49 km. In PvP the sentries can be of great value to. Agreed that a Domi or Ishtar is never used in Fleetfights but solo or in small Gangs everybody is happy to have a Nosdomi on their side to the additional damage the Drones can dish. Sentries in PvP: One of the usages is a prepared Gatecamp. You can carry up to 15 in your Domi and they are Cheap. Lets Take Wardens for Example, they have an optimal range of 50 Km, with Skills and Omnidirektionals they make very good Damage up to 80 km. So you could put them in 70-80 Km Range to the gate/Bubbel. With two Dronelinks you will have a Controllrange of 85 km. That means you can be up to 85 Km away from your Drones and still engage them on a Target. So you can MWD your Domi up to 165 Km away from the Gate and still engage with the Sentrys on halfway. Another good point for Sentries is that they do not stray form your ship. OK, you have to stop your Ship, maybe align without speed to your Warpout point, but first you can make instantly Damage where other Drones have to get in Range first, secondly you can instascoop them if you have to warp out (even after pressing the "Warp to..." button, third you can scoop one and redeploy in a second if one of the sentrys is aggroed and fourth the Sentrys are much tougher to kill than normal Drones and highly underrated because it takes some training to use them. Ever fought a Blastertron with your Nosdomi? Drop your Sentrys and mwd for the Mega comming for you. The plan ist to stop the Mega getting close to your Drones to shoot them. Blasters are Shortrange. Web and Nos the Mega till her Capboosters run out and the Sentries will kill her. (Doublerepairer/Booster setup yourself) It works! I think one module, The Drone Navigation Computer, was not discussed. Fit one of those and you will never need to worry for Interceptors again. I still found nobody who coult tell me how this module mathematical affects dronespeed, but fact is that your Drones get a lot faster mwding to their target, small T IIs fly in access of 7000 m/s. Any Ceptor that tries to stay gets his share of Damage. I love my Pets...:-) Grn¯e Damir Beware: German Link!:) Deutschprachige Piloten gesucht
Crimson Whip	Posted - 2007.03.05 00:22:00 - [51] Great guide, very usefull. Just lacking as mentioned before the vexor and new drone candy: the Myrmidon. Both these ships are quite nice for PvE and PVP. The PvE side being covered already, I'll add a bit for the PvP aspect from my own experience. The vexor is nice for new / short-on-ISK PvPers (and wannabes :), as a cruiser of it's class it can have a nice tank with mostly underrated damage potential. One thing that makes a vexor good in a smaller gang, is the fact that it's noramlly not primary and that it can help to take on any ship class. T2 light drones are the bane of any inty (gets you rid of the tacklers). Few weapons are as effective against other drones as drones of a smaller size (How to survive a 1v1 against a Nosdomi hehe) But honestly a vexor is only a little toy and it lacks the right power grid / cpu for a nicer fitting. What you want is the myrmidon. The nano/I-stab hype suits this ship perfectly it seems (I wouldn't know I despise so called "nano" setups ) One of the best ways to fit this puppy is a t2 dual rep, a DCII and actice hardeners. The high slots invite for all nos/neut (vnice to keep reppers going while chewing through a BS) but a few blasters are nice too. The midslots may vary depending on what role you will asign to your ship. The basic solo pvp would ask for afterburner, web, scram and probably 2 dampeners. The myrmidon can hold 5 T2 heavy drones and while in a small gang this is a viable option (If you can't use T2's don't you dare and put T1 heavys in the drone bay). Useing heavy drones invites to use a drone navigation mod you might wish to swap with a dampener. Anyway that setup is only a base line, the mymidon can be fitted in numerous different ways. Many consider that a drone ship is as much a fleetship as a Raven is a sniper... This is true and yet a drone ship can have it's place in any good fleet. They make great support ships, can be used as logitics ships and are very welcome next to the snipers. During longer engagements many ships need healing and a myrmidon can provide that while being very effective against smaller ships jumping into the snipers. PS: the double repper + hardener setup with nos in the highs works very nicely for PvE. (Anyone else fitting a scrambler while doing missions in low sec? )
Revolution Rising Minmatar Venture Research and Resources	Posted - 2007.03.05 00:59:00 - [52] Great guide. Please mention how EW drones and repair drones seem a little bugged. They will return to your ship at 10% speed - for no good reason currently. RR. Character Sheet -- Venture Research and Resources
CheapSunglasses	Posted - 2007.03.08 08:27:00 - [53] Great guide! This was exactly what I needed to get started on my droneage journey. I'm a relatively new player (~3 weeks) and I'm going to try out an Arbi: 4xsmall nos / 20km scram, AB, web, Disruptor / 1600 Plate, 2 EANM, SAR II. Any thoughts or advice? I'm especially interested in what types of drones I should be using at my lower SP (I mainly fight serpentis/gasti(sp?)/angels). I want to start PvEing to get me use to the way drones work and then move to PvP. Again, thanks for the great info and STICKY!!! Seriously, why hasn't this been glued yet?
Keitaro Baka Babylon Scientific and Industrial Enterprises Babylon Project	Posted - 2007.03.10 00:19:00 - [54] First of all, thanx for the replies, both in here and in game, sounds a bit corny i know, but means a lot to me (insert big carebear hug in here). When I have some more time, I'll take some of the comments into the main posts, maybe explain some more details on certain sections. Quite a few people have been asking me about my apparent dislike of the myrmidon. So let's elaborate a bit on that. First of, yay finally another true drone boat, if not the first true drone boat (gun bonus --> not a real drone boat, as people like jamesw have proven since the birth of the tech II blaster domi). So don't get me wrong, I like the looks, I like the ship, I just find it inefficient. Here's why: Drone bay. Sounds big, is big, is nothing compared to domi which can bring t2 heavies and lights. If it was 150 m^3 this argument would be gone. No gun dmg bonus, 6 turret slots, begs for projectile guns. Not really all that gallente. Or nos. Armour rep amount bous, 6 low slots. Great stuff. Domi has extra low slot and can fit large nos. Kinda balances out I must say. So in the end it's the drone space that wins it for me. The passive shield tanking of ships like the dominix and myrmidon for me is not something to be proud of. It's a clear indication that they need to bring certain armour and shield mods in line, like the whole named plates/extenders vs the tech II types (read it and weap). The vexor. Lovely ship, great for lvl mishes and I have used them in pvp more than once. For missions .. not so good, not that you can comfortably do lvl 3's in cruisers unless you have uber skills anyways. Great for the drone starters, although nothing get my blood running like using a tech II imicus for the small stuff. The Navy vexor is a different ship altogether. Superb. 6 low slots, decent hitpoints, great ship, fun to fly and gorgeous. Sure it doesn't beat an ishtar, but it's cheaper and easier to fly. Sentry drones. Heh, this is also one of those things some people know, others don't understand/care for. Eventhough I can do a lot more dps with heavy t2's I still often use my sentries. Wardens with decent skills (sentry lvl 4) and an omnidir drone mod insta pop almost any frigate from 45-85 km. So useful in missions.. And they can switch targets like guns, they don't have to fly the sometimes huge distances between rats to start doing damage, your damage over time can be easily higher with sentries. So what's against them? You need a huge drone bay. Because you will always need other drones. For pvp.. sentries can be used, but it's really only the gate camps .. As soon as you start tackling with a domi, you know you're close enough to make heavy t2's more worthwile.. I will try to update the guide SOONÖ All the stuff above does not necessarily reflect my corp, my alliance or even me.. Drone guide..
gruntarswe Gallente Hyper-Nova	Posted - 2007.03.14 14:35:00 - [55] I was looking around at the info on the modules i use on my domi yesterday...noticed that drone link augumenters(sp?) have a listed 5% dmg bonus...anyone know if that works, or anything about it at all? Otherwise great guide :)
Word Bearers	Posted - 2007.03.14 21:33:00 - [56] Very nice guide. There is one thing that seemed odd to me, however. You state that a t2 drone is roughly equivalent in DPS to a t1 drone of one size larger. However, looking at the numbers of a berserker I compared to a valkyrie II(with heavy drone IV, minmatar drones IV) there's a major DPS difference between the two. Were you assuming a skilled t2 medium against a t1 larger with no ranks in heavy drone operation, or am I running the numbers incorrectly?
bldyannoyed Standard Operations Building Services	Posted - 2007.03.14 21:43:00 - [57] Just to mention the Drone Sharpshooting skill. It has NO negative effects. Increasing optimal does not negatively affect your ability to hit closer targets. If 15km was your old optimal and 20km is your new optimal after training the skill, you are exactly as effective at 15km as you were before. You're just better off operating at 20km. ( It's all to do with transversal velocity, as a rule of thumb transversal is lower the further away your target is, and thus easier to hit ). So really , train it as high as you can be bothered to.
Yoko Nakajima Caldari Void Spiders Fate Weavers	Posted - 2007.03.30 12:37:00 - [58] Edited by: Yoko Nakajima on 30/03/2007 12:34:17 Thanks for the guide! This will be a great help in my forthcoming campign of drownage Edit: And oh, someone bring the glue! -------------------------------------------------- What would light be like, if there was no shadows?
Atreides Horza Infinitus Odium	Posted - 2007.04.07 12:11:00 - [59] Originally by: Word Bearers Very nice guide. There is one thing that seemed odd to me, however. You state that a t2 drone is roughly equivalent in DPS to a t1 drone of one size larger. However, looking at the numbers of a berserker I compared to a valkyrie II(with heavy drone IV, minmatar drones IV) there's a major DPS difference between the two. Were you assuming a skilled t2 medium against a t1 larger with no ranks in heavy drone operation, or am I running the numbers incorrectly? Good question. Anyone have an answer to this? Would packing Ogre I drones with heavy drones at lvl 4 be preferrable to Hammerhead IIs in terms of damage?
Keitaro Baka Babylon Scientific and Industrial Enterprises Babylon Project	Posted - 2007.04.10 11:41:00 - [60] Originally by: Atreides Horza Originally by: Word Bearers Very nice guide. There is one thing that seemed odd to me, however. You state that a t2 drone is roughly equivalent in DPS to a t1 drone of one size larger. However, looking at the numbers of a berserker I compared to a valkyrie II(with heavy drone IV, minmatar drones IV) there's a major DPS difference between the two. Were you assuming a skilled t2 medium against a t1 larger with no ranks in heavy drone operation, or am I running the numbers incorrectly? Good question. Anyone have an answer to this? Would packing Ogre I drones with heavy drones at lvl 4 be preferrable to Hammerhead IIs in terms of damage? Well last I checked vs my corpies (I like testing these things on TQ, sisi might run some changes in the code) it came down to that comparison: a light tech II drone does about the same dmg as a medium tech I drone. The larger tech I drone does some higher damage shots from time to time (Including skills like combat drones 5 and heavy drones 5) and you could go through some targets in pve faster with the larger drone, you always need to keep drone travel times in mind. If it takes 4 minutes to clear a room with tech II lights and 5 minutes with tech I mediums (ceteris paribus) then the damage over time is higher for the tech II lights, simple as that. Now in pvp a lot of other aspects come round too: Which are easier to lose? Which are easier to replace? Do I even want to bring replacements? Theoretical DPS is all well and good to talk about, in my experience the damage over time of tech II lights/mediums is better than that of tech I mediums/heavies. Tech II heavies can't be compared to fighters tho All the stuff above does not necessarily reflect my corp, my alliance or even me.. Drone guide..
WYLEE C0Y0TE Caldari State War Academy	Posted - 2007.04.10 12:14:00 - [61] E/W Drone Operation does more than just give an increase to drone operational rnage, such as allow you to use E/W drones to begin with............ Originally by: Kaylee Zara Try it out yourself and see what you think rather than listening to what the sheep army thinks. Originally by: Leikeze Mrotserif If it's personal, it's because of you.
Aeryn Syn	Posted - 2007.04.12 13:27:00 - [62] Great guide ... a job well done ... deserves a sticky.
Ebedar Gallente Primary Intelligence	Posted - 2007.04.12 13:51:00 - [63] Originally by: Atreides Horza Good question. Anyone have an answer to this? Would packing Ogre I drones with heavy drones at lvl 4 be preferrable to Hammerhead IIs in terms of damage? You can plug your skills into the Drone Calculator spreadsheet I've made (linked in my sig) and then compare from there. Drone Calculator
Kaylee Kaitlen Gallente Absolutely No Return	Posted - 2007.04.18 17:10:00 - [64] Edited by: Kaylee Kaitlen on 18/04/2007 17:07:22 Originally by: Ebedar Originally by: Atreides Horza Good question. Anyone have an answer to this? Would packing Ogre I drones with heavy drones at lvl 4 be preferrable to Hammerhead IIs in terms of damage? You can plug your skills into the Drone Calculator spreadsheet I've made (linked in my sig) and then compare from there. When I did this, the heavies were significantly harder hitting. For example, given my current (rookie) skills, I got the following DPS/sec with my drones: Hammerhead 2: 12.3 Ogre 1: 22.7 Warden: 23.2 However, I'm not 100% sure that this is correct, since it shows that Hammer 1s are 11.9, which seems like too small a difference, IMO. However, this does bear out my observed behavior during missions -- I couldn't break the tank of certain large BS's (particularly those in the new level 4s) with Hammer 2's alone, while the Ogre 1's could. Edit: Forgot to say: fanstastic guide! Thanks a billion. Damage is king, Speed kills, Style is everything Burn with passion, Kill with rage, Live with hope, Die with honor
Ebedar Gallente Primary Intelligence	Posted - 2007.04.18 19:17:00 - [65] Originally by: Kaylee Kaitlen When I did this, the heavies were significantly harder hitting. For example, given my current (rookie) skills, I got the following DPS/sec with my drones: Hammerhead 2: 12.3 Ogre 1: 22.7 Warden: 23.2 However, I'm not 100% sure that this is correct, since it shows that Hammer 1s are 11.9, which seems like too small a difference, IMO. However, this does bear out my observed behavior during missions -- I couldn't break the tank of certain large BS's (particularly those in the new level 4s) with Hammer 2's alone, while the Ogre 1's could. Edit: Forgot to say: fanstastic guide! Thanks a billion. Hey, thanks for your comments. I don't want to derail this thread, so if you're happy to post your drone skills in the thread for the Drone Calculator I'll gladly look over them and see if everything is working as intended. If you don't want to make them public, you can mail me them in game and I can check over them that way. Drone Calculator
Kaylee Kaitlen Gallente Absolutely No Return	Posted - 2007.04.19 20:54:00 - [66] Edited by: Kaylee Kaitlen on 19/04/2007 20:50:20 Originally by: Ebedar I don't want to derail this thread, so if you're happy to post your drone skills in the thread for the Drone Calculator I'll gladly look over them and see if everything is working as intended. If you don't want to make them public, you can mail me them in game and I can check over them that way. No problem -- I'm fine with sharing. Drone Interfacing : 4 Gallente Drone Spec: 2 Scout Drone Ops: 5 Heavy Drone Ops: 3 Sentry Drone Interfacing: 2 Combat Drone Ops: 4 Ship Bonus (10%): 3 And I had the following values in the "resistances" column: EM: 43 Exp: 55 Kin: 40 Therm: 56 This gives me the numbers I stated before. Damage is king, Speed kills, Style is everything Burn with passion, Kill with rage, Live with hope, Die with honor
Ulysses Icarusson	Posted - 2007.05.17 05:31:00 - [67] Edited by: Ulysses Icarusson on 17/05/2007 05:31:34 Nice guide and thanks. I just wanted to ring in with my 2 isk worth. Sentries.. underrated and little understood. Sentries hit hard with high drone skill levels coupled with a domi's drone bonus and a decently skilled target painter. Sentries make sense and are best used for longer range targets. They start hitting immediately after deployment rather than the delay for travel time. For PvE you will be shooting at about 50km and taking down any of the sizes of rats as they approach you at about 30-40km. Usually the rats will barely get in range to fire a shot before they pop, if they get that close. For the ones that do get in close, like an occasional frigate, you can swap out to a full flight of smalls and pop them fast immediatley or wait till the end of the engagement. Other sized ships that get in close can be webbed to give the sentries a great chance to hit, but usually a webber in combination with heavies will do better. I'm also hoping for a T2 variant on sentries soon. I agree with earlier posts on them being mainly for ships with large drone bays, as other drone types are perhaps more versatile. But still, for me the sentries will always have a niche for fast firing and takedown of rats well before Ogres would get in range and begin hitting a target. I'd also like to put in a word for Drone Durability. It can make the difference between a drone tanking damage and staying on target or needing an emergency recall which will likely fail anyway for the ones out at long ranges. It was mentioned earlier, but in my experience also, sending the drone to attack what's attacking it is much more successful in keeping it alive. Sticking a remote repper in a highslot will let you buff the armor back up on long patrols.
Kochiro Yabu	Posted - 2007.05.17 14:37:00 - [68] I was just about to spam up the board with drone questions. Thanks to this thread I don't have to. Sticky this bad boy now.
Rigsta Gallente Raddick Explorations Executive Outcomes	Posted - 2007.05.17 17:12:00 - [69] Edited by: Rigsta on 17/05/2007 17:12:07 Edited by: Rigsta on 17/05/2007 17:11:14 You've missed an important fact and I've not read the other pages yet to see if someone else has mentioned it: QuickFit shows the effects of skills and modules on drones when they're in the drone bay. Just make sure to export a character XML from the myEye page and load it into QuickFit and you're good to go. Another thing to consider when using sentry drones is the damage multiplier and the tracking speed. Aside from that, great reading. Though I knew a good deal of it already there were some useful points there :) Originally by: Jim McGregor I felt the disturbance... it was like a million voices suddenly stopped whining for a second. Unfortunantly it then continued.
Keitaro Baka Babylon Scientific and Industrial Enterprises Babylon Project	Posted - 2007.05.17 19:02:00 - [70] Well tried QuickFit again for the first time in ages: Drone Interfacing (lvl 5) -> Berserker II.damageMultiplier : 1.56 x => 3.12 x Heavy Drone Operation (lvl 5) -> Berserker II.damageMultiplier : 3.12 x => 3.9 x Drone Durability (lvl 4) -> Berserker II.shieldCapacity : 307.0 HP => 368.4 HP Drone Durability (lvl 4) -> Berserker II.armorHP : 461.0 => 553.2 Drone Durability (lvl 4) -> Berserker II.hp : 691.0 => 829.2 Drone Sharpshooting (lvl 4) -> Berserker II.maxRange : 1000.0 m => 1200.0 m Minmatar Drone Specialization (lvl 4) -> Berserker II.damageMultiplier : 3.9 x => 4.212 x Drone Navigation (lvl 4) -> Berserker II.maxVelocity : 1260.0 m/sec => 1512.0 m/sec Gallente Battleship (lvl 4) -> Berserker II.shieldCapacity : 368.4 HP => 515.76 HP Gallente Battleship (lvl 4) -> Berserker II.armorHP : 553.2 => 774.48 Gallente Battleship (lvl 4) -> Berserker II.hp : 829.2 => 1160.88 Gallente Battleship (lvl 4) -> Berserker II.damageMultiplier : 4.212 x => 5.897 x Omnidirectional Tracking Link I -> Berserker II.trackingSpeed : 0.567 rad/sec => 0.68 rad/sec Omnidirectional Tracking Link I -> Berserker II.maxRange : 1200.0 m => 1440.0 m Omnidirectional Tracking Link I -> Berserker II.trackingSpeed : 0.68 rad/sec => 0.816 rad/sec Omnidirectional Tracking Link I -> Berserker II.maxRange : 1440.0 m => 1728.0 m The problem with quickfit in general is that it has always had a lot of issues.. The drone info seems to be ok.. Berserker II, dmg mod = 1.56x base, I should get 100% from drone interfacing, 40% from gallie BS (dominix), 8% from specialisation skill and of course 25% from heavy drones.. 1.56 * 2 * 1.4 * 1.08 * 1.25 = 5.8968x, so that one is ok Sad part is... we can't be sure omnidirectional mods have a stacking penalty.. because there is no real way to tell the difference unless we get a dev to confirm anything :) The name QuickFit says it all: it's quick and pretty much accurate. It's fun to see your theoretical dps, don't expect to be doing that versus multiple enemies tho. As for the sentry drones: agreed :), although my garde's (20km optimal, say 25km on my ship) seem to have trouble hitting cruisers even when they orbit at 20km .. I use sentry drones purely to snipe. This thread is btw mentioned and linked in the sticky guides thread (thnx for your support everyone [;)]), where you can find quite a few different useful guides All the stuff above does not necessarily reflect my corp, my alliance or even me.. Drone guide..
Xeen DuWang Hell's Horsemen Phalanx Alliance	Posted - 2007.05.31 17:35:00 - [71] Sticky this!!!!! Nice work.
Visago Gallente Temasek Holdings	Posted - 2007.06.23 06:23:00 - [72] Nice guide. Anyone wants to extend this guild on the usage of Shield Maintainence drones, etc ? I cant seem to get them to work =(
PWNERIZE	Posted - 2007.06.23 06:24:00 - [73] You can't use them on yourself, in case you didn't know.
Keitaro Baka Babylon Scientific and Industrial Enterprises Babylon Project	Posted - 2007.06.23 09:18:00 - [74] I'm looking into the changes we've had recently (tech II sentries look like crap tbh, tech II logistics are 'teh win' etc), I might make an update in this thread. Drone rigs should be working now, there appears to be a new bug/old bug resurrected now where drones tend to not use their mwd when moving back to your ship when they are under attack and I've had a weird bug a few times now where when I scoop my drones but a few are just outside scoop range I get 5 drones in space (with a ' [-] ' sign for the ones that still got scooped), weird stuff. To answer the question about not getting the logistics drones to work: As mentioned you need to be able to lock a target to send your drones on that target. You can't lock yourself. You also can't aggro yourself (not even by smartbombing your own drones), so your drones can never do anything on you. All the stuff above does not necessarily reflect my corp, my alliance or even me.. Drone guide..
Hammer Judge Southern Cross Incorporated Angels Of Discord	Posted - 2007.07.15 11:12:00 - [75] Quite useful, thanks mate. - Visit my newbie guide for experienced MMO gamers.
Denuo Secus	Posted - 2007.07.23 13:48:00 - [76] Great guide, thanks a lot! Recently I discovered drones for me and I think I like them. It's great to have my own small fleet under control Though I have still a question about drone tactics. I'm currently thinking about drone ships as slower ships with a decent tank. Like a carrier - sitting around and just support his "fleet". But... is it thinkable to use a drone boat also as fast and hard attacking ship (like a thorax)? Especially I mean drone cruisers(vexor) and assault ships(ishkur). Problem here: If I go for speed, I have to sacrifice tank or drone support slots! Thanks! --Secus
Imaos	Posted - 2007.07.23 16:07:00 - [77] Originally by: Keitaro Baka Sad part is... we can't be sure omnidirectional mods have a stacking penalty.. because there is no real way to tell the difference unless we get a dev to confirm anything :) We can be pretty sure that omnies are stacking nerfed. Fill your meds with omnies, put the shortest ranged sentries in space and try to shoot a stationary target at their theoretical boosted optimum (don't forget DLAs in highslots). Watch the sentries miss all the time. Imaos
Groox Cult of War	Posted - 2007.07.24 18:54:00 - [78] Edited by: Groox on 24/07/2007 18:55:26 Originally by: Keitaro Baka I'm looking into the changes we've had recently (tech II sentries look like crap... Don't take this is as offence to your opinion, but can you explain why T2 sentries suck? For example in case of medium to large fleet fights where there are enough tacklers/webbers to pin down primary's I think T2 sentries are quite effective. I mean compared to standard heavy's. Slightly more DPS. Imune to smartbombs. No need to aproach target [read: even more DPS]. Can be scooped for quick shield recharge. In case of fleet emergency warp off you don't have to wait for them to return. Sure they are more effective due to 400m resolution aganst BC or bigger ships, but one can always fit target painter. What I'm missing here?
EvgeniyViktorovich Gallente S.P.Q.R Imperium Sanctus Formare Romanus	Posted - 2007.10.12 17:46:00 - [79] please describe what DRONOV and what things need to PVP. Thanks.
Comrade Bishka	Posted - 2007.10.18 00:49:00 - [80] i would like to thank Keitaro Baka for this great guide, i would like to add that i am having that drone bug where they get stuck, but am finding it to only be with the Hammerhead's and the Hobgoblins. (guess its still not fully fixed) still, i am loving my Drones
Pitt Bull Caldari	Posted - 2007.11.15 20:53:00 - [81] Excellent guide, but very hard to find. I'm surprised its not stickied. Thanks for your help Keitaro!
YorikR32	Posted - 2007.12.27 23:48:00 - [82] I have read this a lot of times now and being new, it was this guide that pushed me towards Drones and making my Domi a true tanking drone boat. I use Drones for ratting in 0.0 and love the versatility. My pets! Would be nice to update for the changes in Trinity as the new interface is a lot nicer and I have found the drone settings very useful for PVE. I also use Mining Drones to boost the haul of my Domi when I am mining. Drones and Domi FTW!!
Li Tha	Posted - 2008.02.22 19:14:00 - [83] Quote: Drones that are idle (this is the state a drone is in after launch and after it has completed a 'to do list') will automatically attack anything that aggroes the controller, from any range. Drones that are returning and orbiting (this is the state they are in after you have recalled them to orbit you and only after that command) will only automatically attack anything the controller aggroes himself. Is this true? I've been mining with drones orbiting me to have NPC rats target and shoot me while drones did nothing. Also, I'm almost positive that if a player targets and damages you the drones won't do anything until you tell them to engage. Can someone elaborate on what takes drones out of idle into attack mode?
Ikserak tai Caldari Ghengis Tia Corp	Posted - 2008.02.22 21:15:00 - [84] Love the guide, love my drones. Don't leave home without 'em. Th..............................................anx!! (damn this l....................ag) YOU'VE NEVER ROCKED 'TIL YOU'VE UNDOCKED.
William Darkk Gallente Garoun Investment Bank	Posted - 2008.02.23 02:14:00 - [85] Originally by: Li Tha Quote: Drones that are idle (this is the state a drone is in after launch and after it has completed a 'to do list') will automatically attack anything that aggroes the controller, from any range. Drones that are returning and orbiting (this is the state they are in after you have recalled them to orbit you and only after that command) will only automatically attack anything the controller aggroes himself. Is this true? I've been mining with drones orbiting me to have NPC rats target and shoot me while drones did nothing. Also, I'm almost positive that if a player targets and damages you the drones won't do anything until you tell them to engage. Can someone elaborate on what takes drones out of idle into attack mode? This guide seems accurate for the most part, although it could use some post-trinity updatage. Anyway the thing is that drones don't attack on their own while orbiting. If they're just sitting there after they killed a rat/player then they'll attack. -------------------------------------------------- <3 my Drones
James Strong	Posted - 2008.02.23 14:58:00 - [86] So there's a difference between drones orbiting because they're just launched and drones orbiting because they've finished their 'todo list'? I guess the reason I've seen drones attack npc rats on their own is because the rats have targetted the drones first and not me?
Alekzander Caldari Contempt.	Posted - 2008.02.23 18:25:00 - [87] This is a really good guide, I've trained my alt in drones for over a year, and I've amassed 12.2m sp so far (only have 2 non fighter skills left to train to 5 now lol) and believe me, I dont even NEED any other weapons other than the drones. T2 thermal sentries wreck on structure for over 1000 damage (shot my main, and btw, raven vs just the drones, my raven was horribly owned lol) and are scary. Half the time I have myself and my alt in a mission and I dont even need to use my guns. I just let our swarm of 10 drones, with me having med or light out and her usually heavies, do the work. It's amazingly fast and Ogre IIs are insane, but anyway great job on the guide!
Keitaro Baka Babylon Scientific and Industrial Enterprises Babylon Project	Posted - 2008.02.23 18:42:00 - [88] Originally by: YorikR32 ...Would be nice to update for the changes in Trinity as the new interface is a lot nicer and I have found the drone settings very useful for PVE... You know I've been planning to do that for a while now... I should really get on it, maybe do some screenies aswell eh Thanx for all the nice feedback, I'll be sure to post the link to the new guide here aswell (like maybe next week, since i might have some time)..(hopefully).. As for the question 'what gets drones out of their idle movements', last I checked they still attack anything that attacks you if you haven't given them any orders yet. Of course now you have the different AI settings for em so I'll have to check on sisi to be sure. fly safe All the stuff above does not necessarily reflect my corp, my alliance or even me.. Drone guide..
Mordinn The Bones Brigade	Posted - 2008.02.23 19:03:00 - [89] Wow, first time I've ever seen this guide. Pretty great info in here even if some things have changed! Thanks for the OP and looking forward to any updates if/when they come about!
Trace RT	Posted - 2008.02.23 22:10:00 - [90] I've got 11 mill sp in drones, so I hope that qualifies me to say that on a Domi, a good set of Sentry II and a sentry drone rig (name escapes me atm) along with a couple of omnidirectional tracking links kicks a whole lot of ass.
ELECTR0FREAK Dragon Wolf Enterprises The Threshold	Posted - 2008.02.23 22:12:00 - [91] Bah, why does it never remember to use my main when posting... thats me above... http://img228.imageshack.us/img228/9220/finalsigvj8.jpg signature removed (max size 24000 bytes) - please email us (with the signature URL) if you want to know why - Pirlouit([email protected]) Discoverer of the Missile Damage Formula
Wa'roun Eve University Ivy League	Posted - 2008.02.24 09:58:00 - [92] Something that should be added to the update is a guide to each of the drones, their purpose, their differences between each other in each class. For example each of the T1 scout drones (hornets, hobs, acolytes, etc), in what order are they better than each other, etc. Join channel: "Eve University" or read here
Keitaro Baka Babylon Scientific and Industrial Enterprises Babylon Project	Posted - 2008.02.27 13:26:00 - [93] Originally by: Wa'roun Something that should be added to the update is a guide to each of the drones, their purpose, their differences between each other in each class. For example each of the T1 scout drones (hornets, hobs, acolytes, etc), in what order are they better than each other, etc. Heh I'll get right on that ... Seriously tho, while rewriting I've noticed the itemdatabase has had a language overhaul (all my links don't work I guess, sorry for that), so I'll have to do that too. Also obviously a lot of new stuff is not yet available in the itemdatabase (ships like the sentinel are interesting drone ships :)), so I'll have to fudge that. Sadly there is a max number of chars available per post, so a guide like this one, even without mentioning every relevant drone and related rig/module already takes 5-6 posts (the linked items take the full url + tags, making them quite the char hoggers). That said, if anyone else has some requests for the guide, let me know now (either evemail or in here), I'll think about it. I might just make a new guide into a pdf on eve-files, for easy reading and such... maybe.. then again forum reads pretty easy aswell and I dun wanna shovel it all on chibbra's bandwidthwagon All the stuff above does not necessarily reflect my corp, my alliance or even me.. Drone guide..
Amarrian Android Slacker Industries Exuro Mortis	Posted - 2008.03.07 09:56:00 - [94] I like this. Thanks for taking the time to do your research and type this up. Good read, and everything looks accurate. /signed -AA
Dreadpilot Roberts REUNI0N Red Alliance	Posted - 2008.03.07 14:12:00 - [95] couldn't find it in the guide ... t2 drones with drone interfacing lvl IV are much better than t1 drones with drone interfacing lvl V. So always go for t2, and if you are really a drone freak ... train drone int V too. I'm sorry, did I say u could speak ?
William Darkk Garoun Investment Bank	Posted - 2008.03.16 21:31:00 - [96] All the links in the op are broken it seems. Also, I don't think T2 drones are actually as good as one category heavier - they seem about 2/3 as good based on the spreadsheet I use. ------------------------------------------------- Mac Graphics Performance Guide <3 my Drones
Keitaro Baka Babylon Scientific and Industrial Enterprises Babylon Project	Posted - 2008.03.16 22:31:00 - [97] Originally by: William Darkk All the links in the op are broken it seems. Also, I don't think T2 drones are actually as good as one category heavier - they seem about 2/3 as good based on the spreadsheet I use. Yeah the links are broken and the new one is almost done. Also : I'm not sure if your spreadsheet includes the speed and tracking too .. Anyways almost done almost done, gonna be a bit bigger again :( All the stuff above does not necessarily reflect my corp, my alliance or even me.. Drone guide..

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