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Leandro Salazar Aeon Industries Confederation of Independent Corporations	Posted - 2007.01.28 22:29:00 - [181] Can't we get Zixxa moved to the great beyond? I would even take Gronsak AND Detaurus back in exchange... --------- ZOMG my sig was concordokkened! Link removed due to bad language on remote site. -wystler
welsh wizard 0utbreak	Posted - 2007.01.28 23:12:00 - [182] Can't think of any problems with retaining a lock on a drone even when its recalled. This would counter the effect of being overdamped. What does everyone think?
Wrayeth The Black Rabbits Fatal Persuasion	Posted - 2007.01.28 23:23:00 - [183] Originally by: Gabriel Karade [Uumà. as with any BC, a decent BS steam-rollers it; big enough to be hit by BS sized weapons, while not having the endurance (read HPÆs) to survive long enough. Send that up against a competent blasterthron if you don't believe me... Yes, because using one of the highest DPS ships in the game shows balance. Riiiiight. Now try it with a tempest fitted with autocannons and hail L, and you'll find the damned thing just won't die. Trust me - I've tried it. The last time I engaged a myrmidon with 6 dual 650 II's and hail (2 gryos), it took me two minutes or so just to get the bastard to half armor. With a similar setup, a blasterthron (ions, void) has half again to twice the tempest's DPS, so of course there'd be no problem killing a myrmidon. This is why using the highest DPS battleship in an example fails - you need to use a middle-of-the-road battleship for a real example. I'm with everyone else who says the myrmidon is overpowered, just like the dominix. -Wrayeth "Look, pa! I just contributed absolutely nothing to this thread!" Might As well Train Another Race
LUKEC Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.01.28 23:34:00 - [184] Edited by: LUKEC on 28/01/2007 23:31:18 Kill the drones. 8x smartbombs & few wcs will send him back on long empire trip. Those nasty pilgrims never came back after such therapy. snip - Signature removed, email us to know why. -Ivan K
Caios Caldari	Posted - 2007.01.29 01:05:00 - [185] Edited by: Caios on 29/01/2007 01:03:32 Originally by: welsh wizard Can't think of any problems with retaining a lock on a drone even when its recalled. This would counter the effect of being overdamped. What does everyone think? Cheesy and impractical. Cheesy because it doesn't make sense that something can still be targetted whilst recalled to the mothership, or inside another ship. It's like being able to hit missiles with defenders before they've been fired, or worse, retaining lock on a whole ship after its docked into a station. It'd be an ugly and blatant hack to a problem that can be solved with more conventional rebalancing. Impractical because it doesn't seem like it would work with the EVE targetting system. I don't have the code in front of me, but it seems that once a drone is in bay, it no longer "exists" in the gameworld except as a numerical abstraction. All I can say is to be careful when calling for the nerf bat. I don't really mind rebalancing if the myrmidon is too good, but some of the suggestions being thrown around are pure overcompensation. If something needs to be done, I'd say lower the number of turrets, barring that, lower PG and maybe drop the bay size by 5-10, just enough to preclude a full load of heavies, but I think going down full to 100 is a bit much. I don't want to see the drone boat that so many gallente BC'ers have been waiting for turn into trash due to hyperbole.
Astrum Mortis	Posted - 2007.01.29 01:57:00 - [186] At most I'd say a reduction in turret hardpoints was fair, but not high slots. That does depend to a degree on plans for Nos that might be in the pipeline. A reduction in turrets and nerfed Nos would hurt the ship bad. The 5 heavies thing is over hyped, any of the BC's can counter them, it doesn't leave the redundancy required for PvP.
Sev Renard Gallente Rawr and Such	Posted - 2007.01.29 04:00:00 - [187] Quote: Decrease drone bay to 100m2 Onoez! Zixxa wants to make our drones two-dimensional! The horror! _________________________________________
Caios Caldari	Posted - 2007.01.29 05:08:00 - [188] Edited by: Caios on 29/01/2007 05:05:37 You know, maybe this uberness (by which I mean the ability to fit so many guns, I personally thing the drone bay issue is fine). is the result of some preplanning for a coming adjustment to nos. with one of the biggest edges that a drone boat can have potentially being nerfed into oblivion, I can definitley see the choice to beef up the ability to fit guns and firepower in general as compensation. think about it; if the domi had a similar setup, then there'd be less nosdomis out there (maybe), and when the hammer finally falls on nos, there'd be less whiners as well.
Player 2 Minmatar Xenobytes Stain Empire	Posted - 2007.01.29 05:53:00 - [189] Just change bonus to "10% increase to drone hitpoints and damage dealt by Medium Scout drones". And fix all other drone ships. Problem solved... Then nerf nosferatu's
Hikari Kobayashi Caldari School of Applied Knowledge	Posted - 2007.01.29 06:40:00 - [190] Originally by: Zixxa What are you doing, CCP? Is it true that you are all playing Gallente and hate Caldari because of roleplay? Caldari get the raven and drake which are by far the best mission running ships in the game.
Kldraina	Posted - 2007.01.29 08:48:00 - [191] Edited by: Kldraina on 29/01/2007 08:47:48 Edited by: Kldraina on 29/01/2007 08:44:38 Since no one has mentioned passive shield tanking yet: At the moment, the second strongest tank I can field, is a Myrmidon with a passive shield tank. It is beaten only by the Drake. After fitting a full 0 cap use tank on my BCs, I get: Myrmidon, over 800 powergrid left and 6 highs (6/0 hardpoints). Tanks 467 dps on it's lowest resist (could be higher, but I don't fear EM as much as kin and therm). Drake, over 500 powergrid left and 8 highs (0/7 hardpoints). Tanks 517 dps on it's lowest resist (I have BC 5). Hurricane, over 1100 powergrid left and 8 highs (6/3 hardpoints). Tanks 406 dps on it's lowest resist. Harbinger, over 1300 powergrid left and 8 highs (7/0 hardpoints). Tanks 384 dps on it's lowest resist. While I do think that all BCs seem a little too good at passive shield tanking (compared to other forms of tanking), the Myrmidon seems like it doesn't really sacrifice enough in exchange for it's massive drone bay. Personally, I'd recommend lowering it's powergrid, or at least removing a low slot. Heck, I think an 8-5-5 would be an improvement, just because the extra highs won't really mean much without extra PG or hardpoints, but the loss of a low slot would greatly weaken the tank. Edit: The numbers shown are including 3 Core Defence Field Purger I rigs, which increases the tank numbers to 1.95x what they would be without rigs. So without rigs, the tank numbers would be halved.
Pesadel0 Vagabundos	Posted - 2007.01.29 09:14:00 - [192] Now everyone is whining that the myrm is overpowered?I still remember the **** of alot off players in the test server ,and in the test forums. But the force of the lentes were stronger than ours and they won the whining ,and to some extent the caldari won too.Meaning -+ Myrmy:buffed TWICE Drake:NERFED,after 20 pages of whining tux caves in and boosts it a bit. Hurricane:After alot of complains by caldari and **lents nerfed taking ,one slot.After tux tells us that he would kick our arse in his hurricane ;(. Amar: Nerfed . Well we did tell tux that this was going to happen but no,he doubled boosted the myrm.Now i just
Djerin Obsidian Exploration Services The Pentagram	Posted - 2007.01.29 09:48:00 - [193] All the whining is retarded. While the myrm can be setup to do a decent amount of damage and tank very good it's pretty much the only ship in game you can actually disarm. So why don't you just stfu and do what is the most obvious instead of yelling for a nerf?
LukaG	Posted - 2007.01.29 09:57:00 - [194] Can someone point out to me why someone would want to PvP (or PvE for that matter) in a Myrmidon as a pose to a Domi? Haven't checked the market recently but aren't they almost the same price? What im trying to say is is this ship better then a domi or any other BS? This makes me think on a more general level what the point of the BC class of ships is when you put them up against BS's?
Kldraina	Posted - 2007.01.29 10:03:00 - [195] My Myrm's tank is stronger than my Domi's tank. That is why I would prefer to PvP in a Myrm rather than a Domi. The only reason I don't find that unbalancing, is because my Myrm also has 525m sig.
ookke	Posted - 2007.01.29 10:06:00 - [196] It's faster than a Dominix and suicidal hacs might engage you. Might even have a chance against an absolution without web if you have enough noss :p
Djerin Obsidian Exploration Services The Pentagram	Posted - 2007.01.29 10:15:00 - [197] A myrm is a bc and therefor doesn't need as long to be trained to level 5 as a bs does. So it's easier to gain full bonus from it - which means bs-amount of dps in this case.
Mighty Baz HUSARIA	Posted - 2007.01.29 10:20:00 - [198] Edited by: Mighty Baz on 29/01/2007 10:17:18 hey vaga pilots, lets consider myrmidon's fit as follows: 6x projectile med (650 II) - mwd, 2x trackin comp II, 2x sensor II... MAR II, dmg II, 2x nanoII, giro II, ... rigs: 2x aux nano pump drones: 5x berseker II any problems guyz :)))) I know you dont like it ______________________________________________ Husaria recruits based on legendary XVI century Polish winged cavalry
ITTigerClawIK Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2007.01.29 11:00:00 - [199] Originally by: Zixxa DPS is higher than cruise Raven's one.(more than 600-700) 11(eleven) low and mid slots - as BS and more than any BC in the game. And Myrmidon really do not need so much high slots, 6 is MORE than enough. Only with heavy drone t2 it has more dps than Drake. And it has 6 free high slots to fit anything from blasters to nosferatus. Close setup: high 2 blasters, neutralizer, 3 nosferatus med MWD, scrambler, web, capbooster, one free utility slot(sensor booster or dampener or second web). Or MWD, scrambler, web + 2xdampeners. low 2 adaptive nano, 2 MAR t2, 1 Damage control, 1 explosive hardener. drones Med t2 drones. Try to kill this with BS. Decrease drone bay to 100m2, remove one med slot. k what im about to say has probably been mentioned in the thread but i am not gunna read all 7 pages so im givieng a direct responce to the first post... im gunna say "Sensor damps and or tracking dissrupters at range" Problem solved gank from afar tryed the Harbie recently....its the mini gank boat of EVE or maybe the drake... the new cheap cerberus enhanced.. in a way... you need to know how to use them they are all fine and more nerfs to the game is stupid... ya wnana nerf another thing then please bring ECM abkc to life.... Tiggy is not happy Sig (partially) nerfed. Only one image allowed, and that one image has to be under 400x120, and below 24,000 bytes. -Conuion Meow ([email protected])
Goumindong Amarr Merch Industrial We Are Nice Guys	Posted - 2007.01.29 11:18:00 - [200] Originally by: ITTigerClawIK k what im about to say has probably been mentioned in the thread but i am not gunna read all 7 pages so im givieng a direct responce to the first post... Since I have read all seven pages, I am going to give an indirect response. If you had read the 7 pages before your post you would know exactly what is wrong with what you are saying, and would not have typed it. Please do so. ---------------------------------------- Thou Shalt "Pew Pew"
Laboratus Gallente BGG	Posted - 2007.01.29 11:57:00 - [201] Originally by: Goumindong stuff The point he makes is still valid. Stopping him nossin/shooting while ripping the 5 heavy drones ppl like to bring up, while keeping range between 12-19km and damping him to 10km he will not be able to escape(in scramble range), tank (since he gets no cap from nos), fight (once you web the heavy drones they will not make the 12+km in time before poping) and will go pop like a nice little BC should. ___ P.S. Post with your main. Mind control and tin hats
Rudy Metallo Minmatar G.H.O.S.T	Posted - 2007.01.29 12:04:00 - [202] Instead of complaining about it why dont you use it. Drakes can passive tank the world but you're not complaining about them.
Imaos	Posted - 2007.01.29 12:59:00 - [203] Because everyone is talking without trying to fit anything or showing a setup: (Btw. None is mine setup) Myrmidon 1 for gang use (no scrambler/webber): ==[ MYRMIDON ]== HIGH-SLOTS : ~~~~~~~~~~~~ - [ 98 \| 21] Heavy Electron Blaster II x2 - [ 148 \| 24] Heavy Ion Blaster II x4 MED-SLOTS : ~~~~~~~~~~~~ - [ 1 \| 28] Phased Muon Sensor Disruptor I x3 - [ 150 \| 50] Y-T8 Overcharged Hydrocarbon I Microwarpdrive - [ 150 \| 25] Medium Electrochemical Capacitor Booster I LOW-SLOTS : ~~~~~~~~~~~~ - [ 1 \| 30] Damage Control II - [ 173 \| 28] Medium Armor Repairer II x2 - [ 2 \| 30] Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II x2 - [ 1 \| 44] Armor Explosive Hardener II RIG-SLOTS : ~~~~~~~~~~~~ - [ 100] Auxiliary Nano Pump I - [ 100] Capacitor Control Circuit I x2 This setup can rep quite a lot but it drains the cap like a bottomless pit (Especially if both reppers are needed. The Muons (easiest on cap of all dampener) arent a help either). Myrmidon 2 for gang use (no scrambler/webber): ==[ MYRMIDON ]== HIGH-SLOTS : ~~~~~~~~~~~~ - [ 199 \| 26] Heavy Neutron Blaster II x6 MED-SLOTS : ~~~~~~~~~~~~ - [ 1 \| 28] Phased Muon Sensor Disruptor I x3 - [ 150 \| 50] Y-T8 Overcharged Hydrocarbon I Microwarpdrive - [ 150 \| 25] Medium Electrochemical Capacitor Booster I LOW-SLOTS : ~~~~~~~~~~~~ - [ 0 \| 15] Reactor Control Unit II - [ 173 \| 28] Medium Armor Repairer II - [ 1 \| 30] Damage Control II - [ 2 \| 30] Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II - [ 2 \| 30] Energized Reactive Membrane II - [ 1 \| 30] Magnetic Field Stabilizer II RIG-SLOTS : ~~~~~~~~~~~~ - [ 100] Auxiliary Nano Pump I - [ 100] Capacitor Control Circuit I x2 Could cripple the resists for more gyros. Might also be a good idea because after ~1min the cap is dead. Same as setup above. Myrmidon 1 for Solo ==[ MYRMIDON ]== HIGH-SLOTS : ~~~~~~~~~~~~ - [ 175 \| 20] Medium Diminishing Power System Drain I x5 - [ 1 \| 50] Drone Link Augmentor I MED-SLOTS : ~~~~~~~~~~~~ - [ 1 \| 28] Phased Muon Sensor Disruptor I - [ 150 \| 50] Y-T8 Overcharged Hydrocarbon I Microwarpdrive - [ 150 \| 25] Medium Electrochemical Capacitor Booster I - [ 1 \| 22] Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor I - [ 1 \| 36] Fleeting Warp Scrambler I LOW-SLOTS : ~~~~~~~~~~~~ - [ 173 \| 28] Medium Armor Repairer II - [ 1 \| 30] Damage Control II - [ 1 \| 44] Armor Explosive Hardener II - [ 2 \| 30] Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II x2 - [ 0 \| 0] Inertia Stabilizers II RIG-SLOTS : ~~~~~~~~~~~~ - [ 100] Auxiliary Nano Pump I - [ 100] Capacitor Control Circuit I x2 This setup actually can keep all systems running as long as the nos works. But only one Dampener as you need space for the scrambler/webber. All damage from drones and you need all the nos. All setups are pretty tight on grid and cpu. The EW modules (damp/scrambler/webber) are all calculated with max skill (-25% cap use per activation). The setups are build on the statements of the people who posted here. (Uber damage, uber tank, uber damp) To bad it didnt fit in a single setup. Every setup has a weak point and maybe it shows that you can't fit all on it, but very flexible. (Not that should be a point for a nerf. You need to dock refit and fly out again). The really weak point might be its cap. And I don't think you'll meet a lot enemies without its own nos/neut these days.
Goumindong Amarr Merch Industrial We Are Nice Guys	Posted - 2007.01.29 13:32:00 - [204] Originally by: Imaos ==[ MYRMIDON ]== HIGH-SLOTS : ~~~~~~~~~~~~ - [ 199 \| 26] Heavy Neutron Blaster II x6 MED-SLOTS : ~~~~~~~~~~~~ - [ 1 \| 28] Phased Muon Sensor Disruptor I x3 - [ 150 \| 50] Y-T8 Overcharged Hydrocarbon I Microwarpdrive - [ 150 \| 25] Medium Electrochemical Capacitor Booster I LOW-SLOTS : ~~~~~~~~~~~~ - [ 0 \| 15] Reactor Control Unit II - [ 173 \| 28] Medium Armor Repairer II - [ 1 \| 30] Damage Control II - [ 2 \| 30] Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II - [ 2 \| 30] Energized Reactive Membrane II - [ 1 \| 30] Magnetic Field Stabilizer II RIG-SLOTS : ~~~~~~~~~~~~ - [ 100] Auxiliary Nano Pump I - [ 100] Capacitor Control Circuit I x2 Could cripple the resists for more gyros. Might also be a good idea because after ~1min the cap is dead. Same as setup above. Myrmidon 1 for Solo Ion + 2 MFS > Neutron + 1 MFS Change the neutrons for ions and change the RCU to a MFS, you will do more damage. Originally by: Laboratus Originally by: Goumindong stuff The point he makes is still valid. Stopping him nossin/shooting while ripping the 5 heavy drones ppl like to bring up, while keeping range between 12-19km and damping him to 10km he will not be able to escape(in scramble range), tank (since he gets no cap from nos), fight (once you web the heavy drones they will not make the 12+km in time before poping) and will go pop like a nice little BC should. No, it is not still a valid point because that exact specific point has been addressed multipule times in different ways throughout the thread. Ill go over them in brief, since you two have seemed to miss them. The gamit of these include: 1. The myrmidon need not be setup for short range encounters. It is also the damage king in the mid range 2. The Myrmidon will typically fit a capacitor booster, which means that its capacitor is not unduly hindered in these situations. The myrmidon needs not fit blasters, it can fit autocannons just fine, which with tech 2 ammo will hit that far. 3. The myrmidon is not hindered unduly compared to any of the other short range battlecruisers when fighting ships that attempt those tactics. There is no especial weakness of the myrmidon to make up for its dominance in nearly all domains. Not that an especialy weakness, unless it was compromised of a common occurance was present in a majority of battles. ---------------------------------------- Thou Shalt "Pew Pew"
Imaos	Posted - 2007.01.29 14:25:00 - [205] Originally by: Goumindong Ion + 2 MFS > Neutron + 1 MFS Change the neutrons for ions and change the RCU to a MFS, you will do more damage. It was an only an example what could fit. I myself prefer it shield tanked with projectiles/neuts. To hell with enemy nos. Originally by: Goumindong No, it is not still a valid point because that exact specific point has been addressed multipule times in different ways throughout the thread. Ill go over them in brief, since you two have seemed to miss them. The gamit of these include: 1. The myrmidon need not be setup for short range encounters. It is also the damage king in the mid range 2. The Myrmidon will typically fit a capacitor booster, which means that its capacitor is not unduly hindered in these situations. The myrmidon needs not fit blasters, it can fit autocannons just fine, which with tech 2 ammo will hit that far. 3. The myrmidon is not hindered unduly compared to any of the other short range battlecruisers when fighting ships that attempt those tactics. There is no especial weakness of the myrmidon to make up for its dominance in nearly all domains. Not that an especialy weakness, unless it was compromised of a common occurance was present in a majority of battles. to 1) Damage king in mid range is hard to hold because if you use heavy drones in midrange the damage really shrinks fast as in mid range they could get killed before they return. to 2) AC are less damage, more range (but mostly fall-off). And as said above, scooping and deploying heavies will be hard. The myrmidon needs the cap booster because that is the only way to sustain repper and guns (unless projectile) while using the remaining mids for ew. Unless you trade guns for nos while staying under 12km. to 3) cap, mass, speed. At least that's what the poeple complain over in the myrm setup threads. The real problem is that total passive shield tanking is soo good (can beat the repair bonus) and that you better fit projectiles on any ship in nos times. That really favours ships with dronebays as they have more flexibility in the slots.
Goumindong Amarr Merch Industrial We Are Nice Guys	Posted - 2007.01.29 14:37:00 - [206] I said to read the thread for a reason, sentry drones have been mentioned many times, and the myrmidon is the king of medium range damage due to them, just as any other short range ship cannot use the same fittings in the medium and short ranges, nor can the myrmidon[though heavy drones come close] The fact that heavy drones are not good medium range DPS does not make sentry drones bad medium range DPS. 2) I am not sure what this is supposed to say? The myrmidon is not worse at this compared to other ships. 3) And these arent problems for the harbinger and hurricane to the same degree? There arent any especialy weaknesses of the myrmidon. Especial means "beyond normal", as in, there are no common situations, that other similar ships do fine in, that the myrimdon does not. ---------------------------------------- Thou Shalt "Pew Pew"
Imaos	Posted - 2007.01.29 15:02:00 - [207] Originally by: Goumindong I said to read the thread for a reason, sentry drones have been mentioned many times, and the myrmidon is the king of medium range damage due to them, just as any other short range ship cannot use the same fittings in the medium and short ranges, nor can the myrmidon[though heavy drones come close] Sentries are really really sitting ducks. The mentioned "drop the sentries move towards the enemy" gets them popped in no time. Btw I read the entire thread. Feels like many people tried the myrm on paper. > The myrmidon is not worse at this compared to other ships. Yep NOT worse. But not better either. > And these arent problems for the harbinger and hurricane to the same degree? MWD kills the cap, AB is slow to get in range. Especially if the other ship is even slightly faster and dont need to be such close. If you need to close in to keep your weapons (drones) or do damage even a slight difference in speed is deadly if it isnt in your favour. Yep the myrm can fill many roles, but not on-the-fly. It can only fill one role at a time and needs almost total refitting for a change. Might be annyoing if you see a myrm and you don't know as soon as you see it what its fitting is.
Goumindong Amarr Merch Industrial We Are Nice Guys	Posted - 2007.01.29 15:10:00 - [208] Originally by: Imaos Originally by: Goumindong I said to read the thread for a reason, sentry drones have been mentioned many times, and the myrmidon is the king of medium range damage due to them, just as any other short range ship cannot use the same fittings in the medium and short ranges, nor can the myrmidon[though heavy drones come close] Sentries are really really sitting ducks. The mentioned "drop the sentries move towards the enemy" gets them popped in no time. Btw I read the entire thread. Feels like many people tried the myrm on paper. > The myrmidon is not worse at this compared to other ships. Yep NOT worse. But not better either. The "drop and move" sentry setup is a cheap low sec gate gank setup intended to keep your drones out of the range of your target while letting your cheap drones die after you leave. Otherwise, you setup with rails and sentries and do not move. Quote: > And these arent problems for the harbinger and hurricane to the same degree? MWD kills the cap, AB is slow to get in range. Especially if the other ship is even slightly faster and dont need to be such close. If you need to close in to keep your weapons (drones) or do damage even a slight difference in speed is deadly if it isnt in your favour. Yep the myrm can fill many roles, but not on-the-fly. It can only fill one role at a time and needs almost total refitting for a change. Might be annyoing if you see a myrm and you don't know as soon as you see it what its fitting is. And im still failing to see how this doesnt affect hurricanes, and harbingers, or drakes. How do these ships not suffer the same MWD and AB problems? Im still failing to see how hurricanes, harbingers, and drakes can change on the fly to fit these many roles. They cant, they suffer the same full fitting change requirements when attempting to move from a solo to small gang to large gang to camp setups. ---------------------------------------- Thou Shalt "Pew Pew"
Darknar Gallente Ascendant Strategies Inc. The Volition Cult	Posted - 2007.01.29 15:30:00 - [209] reasons i would not fly myrmidon 1. for 10 to 20 mill i can have a dominix 2. drones as a absolute primary weapon is just stupid 3. no hybrid weapon damage bonus 4. brutix tanks just as well and is 15 mill or so cheaper as well as being able to use the same ammount of drones at the same time. but not depending on them. 5. my vexor currently outdamages my myrmidon (void soon) reason i would fly a myrmidon 1. soon i will equal my vexors drone damage and have a large drone bay for more spare mediums 2. its the best looking ship in eve(personal preference) 3. it has alot of med slots. ideal for ewarfair. 4. it can at least fit a full broardside of blasters/railguns
Goumindong Amarr Merch Industrial We Are Nice Guys	Posted - 2007.01.29 15:36:00 - [210] Originally by: Darknar 5. my vexor currently outdamages my myrmidon (void soon) Impossible unless you are trying for your myrm to be outdamaged. 4 blasters + 25% bonus = 5 normalized blasters Heavy Drones do 2x as much damage as medium drones, so 5 med drones with full bonus is 1.5 DPS and 5x heavy drones is 2 dps. With no bonuses the Myrmidon will do, at minimum 1 gun and 5/3 drones more damage than a vexor. ---------------------------------------- Thou Shalt "Pew Pew"

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