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Will Buying Skill Points Ruin The Game?

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Trader20 Hedion University Amarr Empire 5	Posted - 2016.01.30 00:13:09 - [1] - Quote WARNING: Long Post!! TLDR Version: I think it raises the bar in EvE to allow players to purchase sp. Easier for newbs to transfer into the game and gives vets more power to complete their goals. The upcoming real money trading for sp has got me thinking. Will it be that much of an impact on the game and can a complete newbie with bought skill points surpass vets that do not wish to buy sp? Here's some factors that may effect the game. So a newbie with crazy cash starts playing and buys a lot of sp on a new char........ 1. Knowing Good Fits/Ships to Fly Getting a good ship/fit requires two things, isk and knowledge whether taken off a forum/battle clinic or taught from a veteran or experience. Isk can be bought so that's not a factor but doing the research and test fits will take time and effort. 2. Rotation So a newbie has a pimped out ship/fit now what? Knowing what to do and when to do it. This is where "skill" comes in. Best learnt from experience and I believe pvp is better experienced then taught. There is no substitute for experience so vets will def have a leg up on this point. Just because you have a expensive ship/fit does not mean you will be any good at pvp. 3. Reputation This is where a huge split will be. Since you can't buy a impressive killboard (I think?) new players will obviously have less credibility then a veteran. On the other hand corps/alliances will most likely accept a newbie with a lot of sp and they may just teach him how to use those sp properly. So that's where I believe newbies will benefit from. Now for the vet alt factor. 1. Increased Accounts Players will most likely take advantage of this and skill up another alt. More accounts = More money for CCP = Better game? (I think) 2. Encouraged Solo/Alt PvP A vet gets ahold of a new skilled out alt and multiboxes whether for rr or just to melt face with. This may give a boost to solo/alt pvp which is where this game really shines (imo). I would feel more confident doing solo with a skilled out alt backing me up. 3. Leetness Suck at the game? Tired of being trampled on? Buy an ewar alt and bang, you just became leet... yes it's that easy That's it tell me what ya'll think.
Trader20 Hedion University Amarr Empire 5	Posted - 2016.01.30 00:15:18 - [2] - Quote Also an isk source for vets to sell their unwanted/misdirected sp.
Mag's Rabble Inc. Rabble Alliance 21045	Posted - 2016.01.30 00:25:11 - [3] - Quote Trader20 wrote: Will Buying Skill Points Ruin The Game? That depends on whether you think instant gratification, is good for the long term. Oh and IB4TL Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
Trader20 Hedion University Amarr Empire 5	Posted - 2016.01.30 00:27:55 - [4] - Quote Mag's wrote: Trader20 wrote: Will Buying Skill Points Ruin The Game? That depends on whether you think instant gratification, is good for the long term. Oh and IB4TL More accounts/new players is better for the game then bitter vets that are looking for reasons to leave anyway I think?
Avvy Republic University Minmatar Republic 288	Posted - 2016.01.30 00:31:14 - [5] - Quote Mag's wrote: Trader20 wrote: Will Buying Skill Points Ruin The Game? That depends on whether you think instant gratification, is good for the long term. I don't think it will matter unless you think the skill queue is a major part of the game. I don't think it is as most of the time all you are doing with the skill queue is waiting for something to finish. And waiting for a skill to finish requires no input from a player.
Mag's Rabble Inc. Rabble Alliance 21045	Posted - 2016.01.30 00:31:24 - [6] - Quote Trader20 wrote: Mag's wrote: Trader20 wrote: Will Buying Skill Points Ruin The Game? That depends on whether you think instant gratification, is good for the long term. Oh and IB4TL More accounts/new players is better for the game then bitter vets that are looking for reasons to leave anyway I think? Well time will tell I guess. Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
TigerXtrm KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation 1339	Posted - 2016.01.30 00:38:58 - [7] - Quote No. My YouTube Channel - EVE Tutorials & other game related things! My Website - Blogs, Livestreams & Forums
Daniela Doran Ministry of War Amarr Empire 434	Posted - 2016.01.30 00:43:37 - [8] - Quote I'm finally getting to the point where I don't care anymore. But I might as well try to play this insta-leveling game since I still have a decent about of playtime left. There appears to be a lot of scrubs in Eve who relish this pay2win mechanic so it's kinda hard to predict whether this feature will ruin CCPs income or not (at least in the short term), but it will definitely ruin the game. The realness of Eve has vanish and appears to be nothing more than a fake replica of it's former self. It's only a matter of time before the scrubs discover how to take full advantage of this feature and turn this farce of a game into World of Spaceships. If CCP goals where to turn this game into a space PVP game only then they have succeeded. Now the question is just how long can a PVP only insta-gratifying Eve last? My predictions is that it will hit all time high come this summer and when every settles down it will hit rock bottom within 6-12 months after. So overall I predict the remaining lifespan of Eve to be between 12-18 more months.
Leeluvv Polarized 67	Posted - 2016.01.30 00:49:07 - [9] - Quote Rich vets will buy up all the initial SP or use their own characters to fill in skill gaps. New players won't have the ISK to compete with vets, unless they buy and sell PLEX in game. Two months later the only SP for sale will be from characters farming ISK to sell.
Trader20 Hedion University Amarr Empire 5	Posted - 2016.01.30 00:49:34 - [10] - Quote Sounds like an old person not using computers because back in the day mentality....sometimes change is good. Not like they're changing the combat system
Paranoid Loyd 8313	Posted - 2016.01.30 00:51:57 - [11] - Quote Daniela Doran wrote: There appears to be a lot of scrubs in Eve who relish this pay2win mechanic That's the beauty of this whole thing. Anyone who actually understands this game knows it may seem this change is pay2win but the reality is it's far from it. No matter how many SPs bads have, they will still be bads. "Gankers are just other players, not supernatural monsters who will get you if you don't follow some arbitrary superstition. Haul responsibly and without irrational fear." Masao Kurata Fix the Prospect!
Top Guac Mexican Avacado Syndicate 114	Posted - 2016.01.30 00:54:54 - [12] - Quote Trader20 wrote: So a newbie has a pimped out ship/fit now what? Knowing what to do and when to do it. This is where "skill" comes in. Best learnt from experience and I believe pvp is better experienced then taught. There is no substitute for experience so vets will def have a leg up on this point. Just because you have a expensive ship/fit does not mean you will be any good at pvp. Seems a bit of a one dimensional view of things, but good to know skillpoint injection is only for pvp.
Trader20 Hedion University Amarr Empire 5	Posted - 2016.01.30 00:57:10 - [13] - Quote Top Guac wrote: Trader20 wrote: So a newbie has a pimped out ship/fit now what? Knowing what to do and when to do it. This is where "skill" comes in. Best learnt from experience and I believe pvp is better experienced then taught. There is no substitute for experience so vets will def have a leg up on this point. Just because you have a expensive ship/fit does not mean you will be any good at pvp. Seems a bit of a one dimensional view of things, but good to know skillpoint injection is only for pvp. Your right, my bad. Hauling, research, pve and anything else I missed would benefit too.
Avvy Republic University Minmatar Republic 288	Posted - 2016.01.30 01:02:43 - [14] - Quote Daniela Doran wrote: I'm finally getting to the point where I don't care anymore. But I might as well try to play this insta-leveling game since I still have a decent about of playtime left. There appears to be a lot of scrubs in Eve who relish this pay2win mechanic so it's kinda hard to predict whether this feature will ruin CCPs income or not (at least in the short term), but it will definitely ruin the game. The realness of Eve has vanish and appears to be nothing more than a fake replica of it's former self. It's only a matter of time before the scrubs discover how to take full advantage of this feature and turn this farce of a game into World of Spaceships. If CCP goals where to turn this game into a space PVP game only then they have succeeded. Now the question is just how long can a PVP only insta-gratifying Eve last? My predictions is that it will hit all time high come this summer and when everything settles down it will hit rock bottom within 6-12 months after. So overall I predict the remaining lifespan of Eve to be between 12-18 more months. I wouldn't really call it P2W, you are not exactly going to win EVE. PLEX already offers an advantage, instant isk when sold. But that's an advantage over a character of a similar age and sp . Although for a long established player the isk isn't really going to effect them that much. SP packets, again will offer an advantage and again that advantage will be most noticeable with younger characters. But younger character won't be winning EVE with SP packets. It will just allow them to be able to fly pre-capitals better. Alt accounts offer an advantage. The bazaar offers an advantage. Plenty of advantages already, so what's one more.
Tweek Etimua The Paragons 91	Posted - 2016.01.30 01:08:35 - [15] - Quote Trader20 wrote: And an isk source for vets to sell their unwanted/misdirected sp. Main point : The fact that you can buy chars already so....yeah. This and always this. For this post. The 12 before it. And the many sure to come. Now can we stop creating new threads on already hashed out and answered concerns?
Avvy Republic University Minmatar Republic 288	Posted - 2016.01.30 01:33:39 - [16] - Quote Leeluvv wrote: Rich vets will buy up all the initial SP or use their own characters to fill in skill gaps. That's the most likely scenario, either to use them for themselves or to try and manipulate the market. I think there should be a point at which sp packets no longer have any effect. Not sure if they've decided to have a max. limit or not yet.
Daniela Doran Ministry of War Amarr Empire 436	Posted - 2016.01.30 01:36:32 - [17] - Quote Avvy wrote: Daniela Doran wrote: I'm finally getting to the point where I don't care anymore. But I might as well try to play this insta-leveling game since I still have a decent about of playtime left. There appears to be a lot of scrubs in Eve who relish this pay2win mechanic so it's kinda hard to predict whether this feature will ruin CCPs income or not (at least in the short term), but it will definitely ruin the game. The realness of Eve has vanish and appears to be nothing more than a fake replica of it's former self. It's only a matter of time before the scrubs discover how to take full advantage of this feature and turn this farce of a game into World of Spaceships. If CCP goals where to turn this game into a space PVP game only then they have succeeded. Now the question is just how long can a PVP only insta-gratifying Eve last? My predictions is that it will hit all time high come this summer and when everything settles down it will hit rock bottom within 6-12 months after. So overall I predict the remaining lifespan of Eve to be between 12-18 more months. I wouldn't really call it P2W, you are not exactly going to win EVE. PLEX already offers an advantage, instant isk when sold. But that's an advantage over a character of a similar age and sp . Although for a long established player the isk isn't really going to effect them that much. SP packets, again will offer an advantage and again that advantage will be most noticeable with younger characters. But younger character won't be winning EVE with SP packets. It will just allow them to be able to fly pre-capitals better. Alt accounts offer an advantage. The bazaar offers an advantage. Plenty of advantages already, so what's one more. This "one more" was the straw that broke the camel's back. Char Bazaar was tolerable because of RMT abuse, but this is CCP taken full advantage of that excuse to introduce flat out pay2win in Eve to max out the mighty bucks. CCP lies, deceives, betrays and try to manipulate everyone into thinking that it's the same as Char Bazaar but better. Better? For whom? And for what purpose? ...CCP goes silent. I can see only scrubs been fully taken in by this cheap inst-gratifying feature because they never want to earn things like everyone else and is always looking for the easy win solutions.
Trader20 Hedion University Amarr Empire 5	Posted - 2016.01.30 01:40:39 - [18] - Quote First I'm confused that you keep calling people "scrubs". Don't really see how that's even relevant to the subject. Second any seasoned vet will tell you that sp do not equal win or skill. This will still be a skill based game and that skill coming from experience not sp. "Bad" players blame their lack of sp is the reason why they're bad, it's just an excuse
Avvy Republic University Minmatar Republic 288	Posted - 2016.01.30 01:44:41 - [19] - Quote Daniela Doran wrote: This "one more" was the straw that broke the camel's back. Char Bazaar was tolerable because of RMT abuse, but this is CCP taken full advantage of that excuse to introduce flat out pay2win in Eve to max out the mighty bucks. CCP lies, deceives, betrays and try to manipulate everyone into thinking that it's the same as Char Bazaar but better. Better? For whom? And for what purpose? ...CCP goes silent. I can see only scrubs been fully taken in by this cheap inst-gratifying feature because they never want to earn things like everyone else and is always looking for the easy win solutions. It's obviously going to be better for them, but it's also better for the players, especially players that went in one direction with a profession to later change profession. I thought one of the main reasons was because the bazaar operates outside of the game and they wanted a system that works inside the game.
Tiddle Jr Brutor tribe Minmatar Republic 759	Posted - 2016.01.30 01:49:45 - [20] - Quote ISD please lock redundant discussion.
Captain Tardbar Interstellar Incorporated 1143	Posted - 2016.01.30 01:59:13 - [21] - Quote I relish the bitter vet tears. Long live the scrubs! "Entitlement" is a euphemism for "I hate the way you play and it makes me cry like a baby". If you fantasize about being immoral it means you enjoy being immoral deep down.
Avvy Republic University Minmatar Republic 288	Posted - 2016.01.30 02:03:47 - [22] - Quote Tiddle Jr wrote: ISD please lock redundant discussion. What's redundant about it? There's a thread about killing players that buy sp packets (sure they meant characters). Plus a thread speculating about how much sp packets will cost. Neither of those really address the opening post of this thread. Although of course this thread also involve some degree of speculation. If you think a thread is redundant, there's nobody forcing you to read it.
Trader20 Hedion University Amarr Empire 5	Posted - 2016.01.30 02:14:10 - [23] - Quote I'm open to hearing the cons of this new system as long as you keep it civilized. Vets will still be vets and newbies will still be newbies just with the potential to get more sp faster.
Tiddle Jr Brutor tribe Minmatar Republic 760	Posted - 2016.01.30 02:15:33 - [24] - Quote Trader20 wrote: I'm open to hearing the cons of this new system as long as you keep it civilized. all here
Trader20 Hedion University Amarr Empire 5	Posted - 2016.01.30 02:17:03 - [25] - Quote Tiddle Jr wrote: Trader20 wrote: I'm open to hearing the cons of this new system as long as you keep it civilized. all here I thought you weren't reading this thread lol
Jacques d'Orleans The Scope Gallente Federation 2574	Posted - 2016.01.30 02:23:51 - [26] - Quote Daniela Doran wrote: I'm finally getting to the point where I don't care anymore. But I might as well try to play this insta-leveling game since I still have a decent about of playtime left. There appears to be a lot of scrubs in Eve who relish this pay2win mechanic so it's kinda hard to predict whether this feature will ruin CCPs income or not (at least in the short term), but it will definitely ruin the game. The realness of Eve has vanish and appears to be nothing more than a fake replica of it's former self. It's only a matter of time before the scrubs discover how to take full advantage of this feature and turn this farce of a game into World of Spaceships. If CCP goals were to turn this game into a space PVP game only then they have succeeded. Now the question is just how long can a PVP only insta-gratifying Eve last? My predictions is that it will hit an all time high come this summer and when everything settles down it will hit rock bottom within 6-12 months after. So overall I predict the remaining lifespan of Eve to be between 12-18 more months. Obligatory Your stuff? Have it? Can I? remark.
Remiel Pollard Red Federation RvB - RED Federation 7500	Posted - 2016.01.30 02:44:14 - [27] - Quote There's no point in speculating. I intend to wait and see what the outcomes are. If the result is EVE becoming not EVE anymore, I'll find something else to put my money into. For the record, I have no intention of subbing a second account ever. Never have, never will, because the way I see it, if the game can't be played with a single account, then it's probably a scam that claims to cost $15 a month but actually costs $30. Or more. GÇ£Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.GÇ¥ - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
Trader20 Hedion University Amarr Empire 5	Posted - 2016.01.30 03:08:57 - [28] - Quote Remiel Pollard wrote: There's no point in speculating. I intend to wait and see what the outcomes are. If the result is EVE becoming not EVE anymore, I'll find something else to put my money into. For the record, I have no intention of subbing a second account ever. Never have, never will, because the way I see it, if the game can't be played with a single account, then it's probably a scam that claims to cost $15 a month but actually costs $30. Or more. Good point, if Eve ever made it necessary to own more then one account then that would be a sad day. Some play styles are enhanced with a second account but from what I've seen, a person can be as effective by flying with a gang. That's the pvp side of things so I'm not going to act like I know if multiple accounts for trading/hauling/etc or required. If I get tired of pvp and want to dabble in some hauling or trading for example and I want a unique personal hauler/trader then I have the option to jump right into it without waiting for skill time. Or if you don't care about past history or name then you can buy a char.
Daniela Doran Ministry of War Amarr Empire 436	Posted - 2016.01.30 05:00:14 - [29] - Quote Jacques d'Orleans wrote: Daniela Doran wrote: I'm finally getting to the point where I don't care anymore. But I might as well try to play this insta-leveling game since I still have a decent about of playtime left. There appears to be a lot of scrubs in Eve who relish this pay2win mechanic so it's kinda hard to predict whether this feature will ruin CCPs income or not (at least in the short term), but it will definitely ruin the game. The realness of Eve has vanish and appears to be nothing more than a fake replica of it's former self. It's only a matter of time before the scrubs discover how to take full advantage of this feature and turn this farce of a game into World of Spaceships. If CCP goals were to turn this game into a space PVP game only then they have succeeded. Now the question is just how long can a PVP only insta-gratifying Eve last? My predictions is that it will hit an all time high come this summer and when everything settles down it will hit rock bottom within 6-12 months after. So overall I predict the remaining lifespan of Eve to be between 12-18 more months. Obligatory Your stuff? Have it? Can I? remark. Time for you to go enroll back into that English class you dropped out of.
Alessienne Ellecon Solitude Rangers 34	Posted - 2016.01.30 05:27:24 - [30] - Quote Paranoid Loyd wrote: Daniela Doran wrote: There appears to be a lot of scrubs in Eve who relish this pay2win mechanic That's the beauty of this whole thing. Anyone who actually understands this game knows it may seem this change is pay2win but the reality is it's far from it. No matter how many SPs bads have, they will still be bads. My thoughts exactly. If you abuse skillgoo as a pay2win mechanic, you probably have more isk than sense and you thoroughly deserve the repeated asskickings coming your way. Skill injectors are intended first and foremost as a means of reassigning skill points and breaking down unused toons into something useful. I welcome to opportunity to refine this toon into a lean, mean pvp machine and let my industrial alt do the rest.
Daniela Doran Ministry of War Amarr Empire 436	Posted - 2016.01.30 05:41:20 - [31] - Quote Alessienne Ellecon wrote: Paranoid Loyd wrote: Daniela Doran wrote: There appears to be a lot of scrubs in Eve who relish this pay2win mechanic That's the beauty of this whole thing. Anyone who actually understands this game knows it may seem this change is pay2win but the reality is it's far from it. No matter how many SPs bads have, they will still be bads. My thoughts exactly. If you abuse skillgoo as a pay2win mechanic, you probably have more isk than sense and you thoroughly deserve the repeated asskickings coming your way. Skill injectors are intended first and foremost as a means of reassigning skill points and breaking down unused toons into something useful. I welcome to opportunity to refine this toon into a lean, mean pvp machine and let my industrial alt do the rest. I agree. There is nothing wrong with using the SP Extractors to extract unwanted skills and the injectors to inject the skills elsewhere but this could have been done by simply adding a skill respecification feature or item similar to a char resculpt. But instead CCP decides to go all out with adding pay2win to Eve. Maybe they decided that Eve's time is nearing it's end and have decided that now's the time to nickle and dime every last cent out of this game while they still can.
Teckos Pech The Executives Executive Outcomes 4478	Posted - 2016.01.30 07:19:25 - [32] - Quote Trader20 wrote: I'm open to hearing the cons of this new system as long as you keep it civilized. Vets will still be vets and newbies will still be newbies just with the potential to get more sp faster. That is just it, when you change a complex and dynamic system the problems are often not readily apparent a priori. About 18 years ago, I was in my second interview for a job. It was at a utility, that had just deregulated. I asked a rather impertinent question, "How do you know the market wont be manipulated?" The reply was, "Oh, well some game theorists looked at it." I thought, "Hmmmm, yeah, let me see, repeated game...no end stage, so infinitely repeated game at that....so yeah the folk theorum, almost surely they missed something." I replied, "They missed something." A couple of years later I was posting graphs outside my cubicle with prices as high as $1,600/MW, and everyone was shocked. How could this have gone so horribly, horribly wrong? Or lets put it in game terms..... Did CCP foresee the problem with nano-ships? Nope. Did CCP foresee the problem with tracking titans? Nope. Did CCP foresee the problem with drone assist? Nope. Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence So Local Chat vanished, now what?
Akrasjel Lanate Naquatech Conglomerate Naquatech Syndicate 1862	Posted - 2016.01.30 08:11:01 - [33] - Quote Did Buying Characters(Char Bazar) Ruin The Game? Akrasjel Lanate CEO of Naquatech Conglomerate Naquatech Syndicate Citizen of Solitude
xpl0de Caldari Provisions Caldari State 33	Posted - 2016.01.30 09:03:48 - [34] - Quote I honestly feel proud of having worked my SP up. All these nooblets wont experience that joy of growing their characters over the years. But w.e, its going to be a noob harvest for us
Omar Alharazaad Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance 2731	Posted - 2016.01.30 09:48:08 - [35] - Quote Still weighing in my head the possible pros and cons of this. I do intend to take advantage of it myself, to redistribute some skills I never use into skills I will use. I'm looking forward to it, for better or for worse, because it's going to give the instant gratification players all the rope they need to hang themselves. PLEX bridged the ISK gap between newer and older players, allowing them to score the shiny toys they could never afford otherwise early in the game. Now the dreaded and mythical 'SP Wall' is going to become climbable, for a meager fee of course. There's no way this could possibly go wrong, right? I mean they're finally getting what they want? dons lobster bib I personally cannot wait to see capsuleers who are less than two weeks old flying around in faction battleships, sporting their green and purple fits, derping around high sec mission hubs. The thought of it has me positively salivating. Something something Charles Darwin.... Something something PT Barnum. But yeah. Time will tell. My big fear is the insatiable appetite of the many who crave even more concessions complaining that this is still not enough. Come hell or high water, this sick world will know I was here.
Lucas Kell Internet Terrorists SpaceMonkey's Alliance 7150	Posted - 2016.01.30 10:50:48 - [36] - Quote Paranoid Loyd wrote: Daniela Doran wrote: There appears to be a lot of scrubs in Eve who relish this pay2win mechanic That's the beauty of this whole thing. Anyone who actually understands this game knows it may seem this change is pay2win but the reality is it's far from it. No matter how many SPs bads have, they will still be bads. Which is exactly the same as any other P2W game. Pay 2 win doesn't literally mean that you pay and win, it's simply paying for an advantage over those who have not paid. An amazing free player will still win over a terrible paid player. Two players at the same level of ability however, the paid player will have a distinct advantage. The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog. Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
Avvy Republic University Minmatar Republic 289	Posted - 2016.01.30 11:13:08 - [37] - Quote Lucas Kell wrote: Paranoid Loyd wrote: Daniela Doran wrote: There appears to be a lot of scrubs in Eve who relish this pay2win mechanic That's the beauty of this whole thing. Anyone who actually understands this game knows it may seem this change is pay2win but the reality is it's far from it. No matter how many SPs bads have, they will still be bads. Which is exactly the same as any other P2W game. Pay 2 win doesn't literally mean that you pay and win, it's simply paying for an advantage over those who have not paid. An amazing free player will still win over a terrible paid player. Two players at the same level of ability however, the paid player will have a distinct advantage. This is an extract from the Urban Dictionary 'Games that let you buy better gear or allow you to make better items than everyone else at a faster rate and then makes the game largely unbalanced...' I read that as gear that is better than the normal in-game gear. Make better items than anyone else, being able to manufacture items not normally available which would be more desirable than the normal items that can be manufactured. So if that is the case then sp packets are not P2W but are an advantage to those that can afford them and they certainly won't put the game out of balance.
Rovinia Exotic Dancers Union SONS of BANE 457	Posted - 2016.01.30 11:33:46 - [38] - Quote No it won't ruin the game. The Character-Bazzar does essentially the same for years and i bet many of the Vets crying about the new mechanic have used it because they didn't have the patience to train their Titan or other Capital alts. And Eve didn't die because of it. That whole discussion gets more and more hypocritical. Doesn't mean i'm a fan of the Skillpoint Transfer (nor from the Character Bazzar). The current system won't help new players much (and they should be the target group) because i asume the prices of the Boosters will be too high for them to purchause if you don't have a sponsor.
Lan Wang Knights of the Posing Meat FETID 2357	Posted - 2016.01.30 11:37:52 - [39] - Quote Rovinia wrote: No it won't ruin the game. The Character-Bazzar does essentially the same for years and i bet many of the Vets crying about the new mechanic have used it because they didn't have the patience to train their Titan or other Capital alts. And Eve didn't die because of it. That whole discussion gets more and more hypocritical. Doesn't mean i'm a fan of the Skillpoint Transfer (nor from the Character Bazzar). The current system won't help new players much (and they should be the target group) because i asume the prices of the Boosters will be too high for them to purchause if you don't have a sponsor. Encourages people to buy plex whicb creates more supply of plex, in turn brings the price of plex down which people keep complaining about also "Yeah. Put your tears in a jet can and leave them on your undock for your assailants to pick up. If they're camping you, I'm sure they're going to get thirsty." - Darth Squeemus ............................... Angel Cartel \|\| Serpentis
Avvy Republic University Minmatar Republic 289	Posted - 2016.01.30 11:39:31 - [40] - Quote Rovinia wrote: No it won't ruin the game. The Character-Bazzar does essentially the same for years and i bet many of the Vets crying about the new mechanic have used it because they didn't have the patience to train their Titan or other Capital alts. And Eve didn't die because of it. That whole discussion gets more and more hypocritical. Doesn't mean i'm a fan of the Skillpoint Transfer (nor from the Character Bazzar). The current system won't help new players much (and they should be the target group) because i asume the prices of the Boosters will be too high for them to purchause if you don't have a sponsor. I think the affordability is one of the reasons low sp characters get the most out of them.
Jacob Holland Weyland-Vulcan Industries 443	Posted - 2016.01.30 12:09:12 - [41] - Quote Trader20 wrote: TLDR Version: I think it raises the bar in EvE to allow players to purchase sp. Easier for newbs to transfer into the game and gives vets more power to complete their goals. So no it won't ruin the game only enhance it. I would suggest that this is all illusiory. It won't be easier for newbs to transfer in - it will seem easier for newbs to transfer in until the realise how much it will cost; it moves the "bar" from time to money - and the guy who sells ten PLEX to get a start in the game still won't know how his Navy Raven (fit with the following...) got killed by the two guys in frigates. For the mid-term players (six months to a year perhaps?) who want to try something different from levelling their Raven in Osmon it does offer the opportunity to grab a load of exploration SP quickly. For Doctrine fleet based warfare it offers the F1 monkey the chance to switch to the latest fleet type immediately. For the youngish R&D alt it offers the ability to switch to the new profitable BPCs as the market shifts... For new players, discovering the game step by step... All it does is make them feel that they're missing out by not buying SP. Malcanis law, once again - the only people who're really going to get real benefit out of this change are the entrenched powerbase - the high SP characters (who will turn time into money) and the big 0.0 powerblocks (who will turn money into time)...
Arakkoa Interstellar Incorporated 0	Posted - 2016.01.30 12:56:36 - [42] - Quote Trader20 wrote: WARNING: Long Post!! Please keep thread civilized so we can (hopefully) avoid a lock. Thank You TLDR Version: I think it raises the bar in EvE to allow players to purchase sp. Easier for newbs to transfer into the game and gives vets more power to complete their goals. So no it won't ruin the game only enhance it. The upcoming buying sp has got me thinking. Will it be that much of an impact on the game and can a complete newbie with bought skill points surpass vets that do not wish to buy sp? Here's some factors that may effect the game. So a newbie with crazy cash starts playing and buys a lot of sp on a new char........ 1. Knowing Good Fits/Ships to Fly Getting a good ship/fit requires two things, isk and knowledge whether taken off a forum/battle clinic or taught from a veteran or experience. Isk can be bought so that's not a factor but doing the research and test fits will take time and effort. 2. Rotation So a newbie has a pimped out ship/fit now what? Knowing what to do and when to do it. This is where "skill" comes in. Best learnt from experience and I believe pvp is better experienced then taught. There is no substitute for experience so vets will def have a leg up on this point. Just because you have a expensive ship/fit does not mean you will be any good at pvp. 3. Reputation This is where a huge split will be. Since you can't buy a impressive killboard (I think?) new players will obviously have less credibility then a veteran. On the other hand corps/alliances will most likely accept a newbie with a lot of sp and they may just teach him how to use those sp properly. So that's where I believe newbies will benefit from. Now for the vet alt factor. 1. Increased Accounts Players will most likely take advantage of this and skill up another alt. More accounts = More money for CCP = Better game? (I think) 2. Encouraged Solo/Alt PvP A vet gets ahold of a new skilled out alt and multiboxes whether for rr or just to melt face with. This may give a boost to solo/alt pvp which is where this game really shines (imo). I would feel more confident doing solo with a skilled out alt backing me up. 3. Leetness Suck at the game? Tired of being trampled on? Buy an ewar alt and bang, you just became leet... yes it's that easy (bad joke) That's it tell me what ya'll think. I think you have a great Idea
Flitz Farseeker Mass HaVoK KAOS Unlimited 24	Posted - 2016.01.30 15:25:04 - [43] - Quote Trader20 wrote: A vet gets ahold of a new skilled out alt and multiboxes whether for rr or just to melt face with. This may give a boost to solo/alt pvp which is where this game really shines (imo). I would feel more confident doing solo with a skilled out alt backing me up. It's not 'solo' if you have an alt backing you up.
Nalia White Tencus 154	Posted - 2016.01.30 15:31:50 - [44] - Quote i am at the point of not caring about this feature at all. i mean there is already the character basar so saying stuff like "there will now be instant gratification in eve" is partly wrong because there already is. The only difference now is that it is possible to control the avatar you created with the name you chose.
sero Hita Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 120	Posted - 2016.01.30 16:33:05 - [45] - Quote Daniela Doran wrote: This "one more" was the straw that broke the camel's back. Char Bazaar was tolerable because of RMT abuse, but this is CCP taken full advantage of that excuse to introduce flat out pay2win in Eve to max out the mighty bucks. CCP lies, deceives, betrays and try to manipulate everyone into thinking that it's the same as Char Bazaar but better. Better? For whom? And for what purpose? ...CCP goes silent. I can see only scrubs been fully taken in by this cheap insta-gratifying feature because they never want to earn things like everyone else and is always looking for the easy win solutions. So, no one listened to you about the change because you went with the "Don't implement or your game will die" ultimatum argument, you are apparently not leaving the game(??????) and have resorted to name calling. That is classy "I'm all for pvp, don't get me wrong. I've ganked in Empire, blobed in low sec. Got T-shirts from every which-where.. But to be forced into a pvp confrontation that I didn't want is wrong ccp." RealFlisker
Daemun Khanid Apollo Defence Industries 265	Posted - 2016.01.30 16:40:47 - [46] - Quote Nothing will change. Ppl are just butt hurt and bitter because they think someone else will be able to get where they are faster than it took them. Who cares. Keep doing whatever it is you're doing and keep your nose in your own business. Problem solved. /thread Daemun of Khanid
Teckos Pech The Executives Executive Outcomes 4481	Posted - 2016.01.30 17:11:34 - [47] - Quote Akrasjel Lanate wrote: Did Buying Characters(Char Bazar) Ruin The Game? This isn't quite the same as the bazaar. CCP has been quite clever in that the only SP that is getting sold is SP coming out of another character, so it is similar to the bazaar. However, my concern is that a subset of players might find a way to turn this to their advantage relative to other players. And if you want an example that could have ruined the game...how about the faction war LP "exploit"? CCP did not see it coming, some players did, they warned CCP, CCP ignored them so they used the exploit massively to show CCP their folly. Or let me put it this way: Did car insurance "ruin" the economies of the world in 2008/2009? Did credit default swaps (another type of insurance) play a big role in "ruining" the economies of the world in 2008/2009? The point is that just because people cannot see the problem does not mean there isn't one. Oh...and why does the standard have to be "ruin the game"? Tracking titans weren't going to "ruin the game" they just made it less fun and pointed people to a specific end game for NS PvP. Not very appealing for those of us who don't really want a Titan. Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence So Local Chat vanished, now what?
Teckos Pech The Executives Executive Outcomes 4481	Posted - 2016.01.30 17:20:55 - [48] - Quote Omar Alharazaad wrote: Still weighing in my head the possible pros and cons of this. I do intend to take advantage of it myself, to redistribute some skills I never use into skills I will use. I'm looking forward to it, for better or for worse, because it's going to give the instant gratification players all the rope they need to hang themselves. PLEX bridged the ISK gap between newer and older players, allowing them to score the shiny toys they could never afford otherwise early in the game. Now the dreaded and mythical 'SP Wall' is going to become climbable, for a meager fee of course. There's no way this could possibly go wrong, right? I mean they're finally getting what they want? dons lobster bib I personally cannot wait to see capsuleers who are less than two weeks old flying around in faction battleships, sporting their green and purple fits, derping around high sec mission hubs. The thought of it has me positively salivating. Something something Charles Darwin.... Something something PT Barnum. But yeah. Time will tell. My big fear is the insatiable appetite of the many who crave even more concessions complaining that this is still not enough. I have to admit that part of me is looking forward to this. Now we can test alot of these claims by people about the "SP wall", "gating", etc. Why after this change we should see a strong upward trend in players on line. SoonGäó we should be back to the halcyon days of 50,000 players on during the peak and not too long after that we'll break the record. Those were the claims right? We'll be swamped with new players eager to dive in who can quickly and effectively cross the SP Speed Bump (c'mon it wont be a "wall" anymore right?). Subscription, a couple of PLEX (one for SP injectors, and 1 for ISK or some such) and you are off and running with the best of them...and the awesome thing is that the SP has come from the evil Wicked Witch of the West, aka veteran players. And yes, you are probably right in this "it won't be enough". Hanging out in Player's Features and Ideas sub-forum will show that. The vast majority of the "ideas and suggestions" can be simply summarized as "Buff my style of play". The sense of entitlement is strong in many players. Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence So Local Chat vanished, now what?
Paranoid Loyd 8322	Posted - 2016.01.30 17:43:39 - [49] - Quote Lucas Kell wrote: Which is exactly the same as any other P2W game. No Lucas, it's not, but that's some nice bait. "Gankers are just other players, not supernatural monsters who will get you if you don't follow some arbitrary superstition. Haul responsibly and without irrational fear." Masao Kurata Fix the Prospect!
Nana Skalski Poseidaon 4098	Posted - 2016.01.30 18:31:54 - [50] - Quote Its more like redistributing SP, not really buying like from CCP fresh unused SP. Redistribution is recycling. It depends on few factors, not like new, fresh SP directly from CCP that they could sell for additional money, but they dont! Redistribution depends on availability, speed of aquiring new SP, willingness to profit on them, willingness to diminish your pool, price on the market for SP, style of play, willingness to buy SP, ISK availability for characters, Willingness to buy AU, and many others.... Its hard to tell how it will end, but it allows many new possibilities for everyone, new and old, for a cost of few people resigning from the game because CCP "knifed them in the back" as they say. ( -á° -ƒ-û -í°)/ =ƒÅ¦ - my sandcastle Every part of a game helps to tell a story. =ƒôò
Teckos Pech The Executives Executive Outcomes 4482	Posted - 2016.01.30 18:43:11 - [51] - Quote Jacob Holland wrote: Trader20 wrote: TLDR Version: I think it raises the bar in EvE to allow players to purchase sp. Easier for newbs to transfer into the game and gives vets more power to complete their goals. So no it won't ruin the game only enhance it. I would suggest that this is all illusiory. It won't be easier for newbs to transfer in - it will seem easier for newbs to transfer in until the realise how much it will cost; it moves the "bar" from time to money - and the guy who sells ten PLEX to get a start in the game still won't know how his Navy Raven (fit with the following...) got killed by the two guys in frigates. For the mid-term players (six months to a year perhaps?) who want to try something different from levelling their Raven in Osmon it does offer the opportunity to grab a load of exploration SP quickly. For Doctrine fleet based warfare it offers the F1 monkey the chance to switch to the latest fleet type immediately. For the youngish R&D alt it offers the ability to switch to the new profitable BPCs as the market shifts... For new players, discovering the game step by step... All it does is make them feel that they're missing out by not buying SP. Malcanis law, once again - the only people who're really going to get real benefit out of this change are the entrenched powerbase - the high SP characters (who will turn time into money) and the big 0.0 powerblocks (who will turn money into time)... Not sure that this will will be a case of Malcanis' Law. Malcanis' Law is that any change designed specifically to help new players will be, to an overwhelming extent, a benefit to older more established players. He also generalized it along the lines of, Quote: "Any change that is made to privilege a specific group in an open, classless game will invariably be to the greater benefit of older, richer, more experienced players" While it is probably true that those who use the SP market the most will be new players, much like with the character bazaar...but that only looks at half of the picture. In the character bazaar the new players are often the buyers of characters. The sellers are most likely our older, richer, more experienced players (i.e. the veteran players). Since market transactions are voluntary it also follows that both sides are gaining--i.e. exchange, trade, market transactions are, a priori, mutually beneficial. It is absolutely not a zero sum game here. Further, IMO, the character bazaar was created for another reason: reducing one aspect of RMT, where characters are sold for RL money outside the game. Much like how PLEX are really thinly veiled ways for players to buy and sell ISK which certainly does put a serious dent in ISK RMT the same is true with the character bazaar. Since RMT can be bad for a game in general, CCP's attempt to make the game better in general (the character bazaar) is not a case of Malcanis' law. The same can be said here as well. I have an alt and I have him trained to where I want him--i.e. I am only training him because I want to use him for in game StuffGäó but essentially he is "done training for now." I could turn him into an SP farm. Now, what do we know? We know that 30 days of game time is worth, right now about 1.2 billion ISK. Breaking that down on an hourly basis is 1.6667 million ISK/day. Which divided by 2610 (the theoretical max SP one could train/hour) to about 635.57 ISK/SP/hour translating into about 1.194 billion ISK/month from SP farming. Oh look, I can just about pay for a PLEX for that account. Doing a few other things in game (e.g. ratting for a hour) will cover the rest. So now, we have a class of players who switch from RL money payments for their account to PLEX with virtually no effort. Is that potentially bad? After all, market transactions are mutually beneficial right? Well you have another class of players who are essentially paying 2 subscriptions. Passive income sources are often perceived as bad and here one is being deliberately created. v0v Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence So Local Chat vanished, now what?
sero Hita Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 121	Posted - 2016.01.30 18:43:29 - [52] - Quote Teckos Pech wrote: I have to admit that part of me is looking forward to this. Now we can test alot of these claims by people about the "SP wall", "gating", etc. Why after this change we should see a strong upward trend in players on line. SoonGäó we should be back to the halcyon days of 50,000 players on during the peak and not too long after that we'll break the record. Those were the claims right? We'll be swamped with new players eager to dive in who can quickly and effectively cross the SP Speed Bump (c'mon it wont be a "wall" anymore right?). Subscription, a couple of PLEX (one for SP injectors, and 1 for ISK or some such) and you are off and running with the best of them...and the awesome thing is that the SP has come from the evil Wicked Witch of the West, aka veteran players. And yes, you are probably right in this "it won't be enough". Hanging out in Player's Features and Ideas sub-forum will show that. The vast majority of the "ideas and suggestions" can be simply summarized as "Buff my style of play". The sense of entitlement is strong in many players. The claim from whom? I have never heard or read CCP claim this, who said it will bring 50000 players online? Do you have a link? For me it seems like you are deliberately lying or exaggerating, to create a case that would put you in a position to say "I told you it did not increase numbers". All I have read them claim is that people should have the possibility to be able to close the gap to the vetarans. And this clam is full of ambiquity, so good luck catching them on that one. I think most people understand that this is implemented for CCP to earn more money. Nothing wrong with that. "I'm all for pvp, don't get me wrong. I've ganked in Empire, blobed in low sec. Got T-shirts from every which-where.. But to be forced into a pvp confrontation that I didn't want is wrong ccp." RealFlisker
Teckos Pech The Executives Executive Outcomes 4483	Posted - 2016.01.30 18:47:25 - [53] - Quote Nana Skalski wrote: Its more like redistributing SP, not really buying like from CCP fresh unused SP. Redistribution is recycling. It depends on few more factors, than new, fresh SP directly from CCP that they could sell for additional money, but they dont! Redistribution depends on availability, speed of aquiring new SP, willingness to profit on them, willingness to diminish your pool, price on the market for SP, style of play, willingness to buy SP, ISK availability for characters, Willingness to buy AU, and many others.... Its hard to tell how it will end, but it allows many new possibilities for everyone, new and old, for a cost of few people resigning from the game because CCP "knifed them in the back" as they say. And some of the SP will be sunk out of the game for those who inject SP past the 5 million SP threshold. Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence So Local Chat vanished, now what?
Teckos Pech The Executives Executive Outcomes 4483	Posted - 2016.01.30 18:50:47 - [54] - Quote sero Hita wrote: Teckos Pech wrote: I have to admit that part of me is looking forward to this. Now we can test alot of these claims by people about the "SP wall", "gating", etc. Why after this change we should see a strong upward trend in players on line. SoonGäó we should be back to the halcyon days of 50,000 players on during the peak and not too long after that we'll break the record. Those were the claims right? We'll be swamped with new players eager to dive in who can quickly and effectively cross the SP Speed Bump (c'mon it wont be a "wall" anymore right?). Subscription, a couple of PLEX (one for SP injectors, and 1 for ISK or some such) and you are off and running with the best of them...and the awesome thing is that the SP has come from the evil Wicked Witch of the West, aka veteran players. And yes, you are probably right in this "it won't be enough". Hanging out in Player's Features and Ideas sub-forum will show that. The vast majority of the "ideas and suggestions" can be simply summarized as "Buff my style of play". The sense of entitlement is strong in many players. The claim from whom? I have never heard or read CCP claim this, who said it will bring 50000 players online? Do you have a link? For me it seems like you are deliberately lying or exaggerating, to create a case that would put you in a position to say "I told you it did not increase numbers". All I have read them claim is that people should have the possibility to be able to close the gap to the vetarans. And this clam is full of ambiquity, so good luck catching them on that one. I think most people understand that this is implemented for CCP to earn more money. Nothing wrong with that. Did I say it was from CCP? Please work on your reading comprehension here. There were a number of threads on SP, starting SP, "gating" the "SP wall" etc. from a number of players. Some even want to eliminate SP entirely, effectively set everyone's SP to level V for all skills in the game. And yes, there are a number of claims regarding how it will bring new players to the game. Your ignorance is not my problem. Oh, and might want to look towards fixing your sarcasm meter. The claims about how the game will grow are not mine, but others. Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence So Local Chat vanished, now what?
Mr Epeen It's All About Me 9798	Posted - 2016.01.30 19:20:46 - [55] - Quote Quote: Will Buying Skill Points Ruin The Game? I ask myself how making SP acquisition more efficient has affected the game in the past. Did adding an official Character Trading forum destroy the game? Did the removal of Ghost Training ruin the game as many at the time whined? Did the addition of PLEX to the game to make buying SP available with ISK kill the game was screamed in the forum? Did the removal of Training Skills ruin the game as many at the time shouted to anyone that would listen? Did the addition of a 24 hour skill queue make the game collapse as many warned would happen? Did the even more excessive addition to the skill queue destroy EVE as we know it as many espoused? Did multiple character training drop the player base by half as was told us by the forum elites? Will SP Packs kill the game? Ask me again in five years. Mr Epeen There are 86,400 seconds in a day. You just saved one of them by typing 'u' instead of 'you'.-á Congratulations, dumbass!
Bondor Zanphre Union Rebels 1	Posted - 2016.01.30 19:57:43 - [56] - Quote I think sp change will help current players consolidate or specialize characters. It will help newer players get started over the initial phase. It shouldn't ruin the game unless we the player base ruin the new player experience for the new player ourselves. Eve is a long haul type of game, I'm not sure how long instant pilots will stay when the new car smell is gone. CCP will need to create content geared to keep newer pilots interested in our sandbox. CCP has done a great job of reinventing the game. They can create new goals, skills, hulls to keep the current and future community entertained and queued up for many years to come.
Altair Taurus 37	Posted - 2016.01.30 20:59:54 - [57] - Quote sero Hita wrote: I think most people understand that this is implemented for CCP to earn more money. Nothing wrong with that. Good point! However I am afraid some haters are against this great change but CCP and majority of players will move forward regardless. CCP will earn tons of money and we will be able to fly decent ships quickly. At all events I must prepare training queue...pardon...cash for skill injectors for Vargur, Widow and Prophecy!
morion Lighting Build 60	Posted - 2016.01.30 21:36:22 - [58] - Quote ability to insta optimise SP via any means has a stelth economic consequence. It steers ship fittings toward optimal T2 fit. This has a hidden benifit for Moon holders; In moor cases players can entirly skip meta mods for T2 A marginalisation of T1 meta loot and a buff for null economically. Moor meta loot gets refined lowers bace minnerals value etcetera... good or bad it's my read on it.
Lulu Lunette Savage Moon Society 269	Posted - 2016.01.30 23:39:25 - [59] - Quote You know what's going to be killed? My ingame wallet! @lunettelulu7
Pryce Caesar Cloak and Daggers Fidelas Constans 35	Posted - 2016.01.31 01:16:27 - [60] - Quote I do not think buying skill points will ruin the game because, in the long term, a single Skill Injector will hardly make a dent. At the base level, they are only at their best when a) you have below 5 million skillpoints, and b) you are applying them to Rank 1 or 2 skills, because it is only at those levels where you can get near instant skill level ups to Level 5 (in-between 5 mill and 80 mill, the Injector only automatically gives Level 5 Rank 1 skills). True, even with 80 mill skillpoints they give out enough skillpoints (150,000) to immediately level up a Titan's skills to Level 3. But for any player who has played long enough to competently fly a Titan, it doesn't matter, because you already have so many skillpoints that adding on such a small amount doesn't mean much. At best, they would be used by veteran players to take skillpoints from skills they do not use anymore, and contracted out to their alts or corp members to give players with less game time a boost to specific skills.
Daniela Doran Ministry of War Amarr Empire 439	Posted - 2016.01.31 01:40:57 - [61] - Quote sero Hita wrote: Daniela Doran wrote: This "one more" was the straw that broke the camel's back. Char Bazaar was tolerable because of RMT abuse, but this is CCP taken full advantage of that excuse to introduce flat out pay2win in Eve to max out the mighty bucks. CCP lies, deceives, betrays and try to manipulate everyone into thinking that it's the same as Char Bazaar but better. Better? For whom? And for what purpose? ...CCP goes silent. I can see only scrubs been fully taken in by this cheap insta-gratifying feature because they never want to earn things like everyone else and is always looking for the easy win solutions. So, no one listened to you about the change because you went with the "Don't implement or your game will die" ultimatum argument, you are apparently not leaving the game(??????) and have resorted to name calling. That is classy I was really about to leave actually, but then I decided to do something that I never done before in Eve. Suicide ganking. And one of my soon to be victims is in this thread.
Mr Mieyli Hedion University Amarr Empire 151	Posted - 2016.01.31 01:46:37 - [62] - Quote To the people who say "but the char bazaar exists" I would just like to say that for many people there is an attachment to their character. Having to buy another character with it's associated past and some useless skills acts as a deterrent to taking the easy route. With these extractors where is the downside? Char bazaar and extractors are not the same thing and I could see many more people buying SP than before the extractors were released. I, like others, don't think that this move will attract the type of player that eve needs. I can only see it lessening the involvement people feel with the game. I mean isk already seems sort of meaningless given you can buy a plex, if SP is also meaningless then what about your character makes him special? Will the next change be the introduction of "classes" with SP already allocated because injectors are too much hassle? A case for more AoE in EvE
Dyllan Ma'tar Signal Cartel EvE-Scout Enclave 5	Posted - 2016.01.31 02:08:45 - [63] - Quote Mr Mieyli wrote: what about your character makes him special? SP never made your character special, it only prescribed the ability of that character in game to do a thing. Nothing more. If SP is the only thing special about your character, then I regret to inform you that your character was never special. > You can win with certainty with the spirit of "one cut". ~ Miyamoto Musashi
Avvy Republic University Minmatar Republic 290	Posted - 2016.01.31 02:44:49 - [64] - Quote ...
Nat Silverguard Aideron Robotics 258	Posted - 2016.01.31 04:36:45 - [65] - Quote Daniela Doran wrote: I'm finally getting to the point where I don't care anymore. But I might as well try to play this insta-leveling game since I still have a decent about of playtime left. There appears to be a lot of scrubs in Eve who relish this pay2win mechanic so it's kinda hard to predict whether this feature will ruin CCPs income or not (at least in the short term), but it will definitely ruin the game. The realness of Eve has vanish and appears to be nothing more than a fake replica of it's former self. It's only a matter of time before the scrubs discover how to take full advantage of this feature and turn this farce of a game into World of Spaceships. If CCP goals were to turn this game into a space PVP game only then they have succeeded. Now the question is just how long can a PVP only insta-gratifying Eve last? My predictions is that it will hit an all time high come this summer and when everything settles down it will hit rock bottom within 6-12 months after. So overall I predict the remaining lifespan of Eve to be between 12-18 more months. Legit question, what do you mean pay2win, can you explain/elaborate what you mean? can you give a specific example of a pay2win scenario in EvE? ty in advance. Just Add Water
Teckos Pech The Executives Executive Outcomes 4515	Posted - 2016.01.31 04:43:37 - [66] - Quote Avvy wrote: Mr Mieyli wrote: To the people who say "but the char bazaar exists" I would just like to say that for many people there is an attachment to their character. Having to buy another character with it's associated past and some useless skills acts as a deterrent to taking the easy route. With these extractors where is the downside? Char bazaar and extractors are not the same thing and I could see many more people buying SP than before the extractors were released. I, like others, don't think that this move will attract the type of player that eve needs. I can only see it lessening the involvement people feel with the game. I mean isk already seems sort of meaningless given you can buy a plex, if SP is also meaningless then what about your character makes him special? Will the next change be the introduction of "classes" with SP already allocated because injectors are too much hassle? I wouldn't use the character bazaar because I wouldn't feel the character is mine. Although I would have no issue in using sp packets. [snip] Which is why drawing an equivalence between the character bazaar and the SP market is not quite the same. And again, why is everyone saying "Oh, it won't destroy the game so why worry?" Really, that is the bar? It won't destroy the game so it is okay? Jesus guys, pull your head out of your fourth point of contact before you suffocate. Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence So Local Chat vanished, now what?
Divine Entervention Bridge Four 813	Posted - 2016.01.31 05:04:50 - [67] - Quote No
Frostys Virpio KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation 2541	Posted - 2016.01.31 05:18:01 - [68] - Quote Mr Mieyli wrote: what about your character makes him special? How many alts do you have in this game where the identity of your character is oh so important?
Daniela Doran Ministry of War Amarr Empire 439	Posted - 2016.01.31 05:34:12 - [69] - Quote Dyllan Ma'tar wrote: Mr Mieyli wrote: what about your character makes him special? SP never made your character special, it only prescribed the ability of that character in game to do a thing. Nothing more. If SP is the only thing special about your character, then I regret to inform you that your character was never special. That is for whom the char belongs to, to decide if their char is special or not. You or any others have no say in the matter.
Nat Silverguard Aideron Robotics 258	Posted - 2016.01.31 05:41:37 - [70] - Quote Daniela Doran wrote: Dyllan Ma'tar wrote: Mr Mieyli wrote: what about your character makes him special? SP never made your character special, it only prescribed the ability of that character in game to do a thing. Nothing more. If SP is the only thing special about your character, then I regret to inform you that your character was never special. That is for whom the char belongs to, to decide if their char is special or not. You or any others have no say in the matter. from my post earlier: Nat Silverguard wrote: Legit question, what do you mean pay2win, can you explain/elaborate what you mean? can you give a specific example of a pay2win scenario in EvE? ty in advance. Just Add Water
Rowells ANZAC ALLIANCE Fidelas Constans 2890	Posted - 2016.01.31 06:24:53 - [71] - Quote Mr Mieyli wrote: what about your character makes him special? Well,mine has my actual name on it. So there's that.
Tyberius Franklin Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation 1888	Posted - 2016.01.31 06:29:50 - [72] - Quote Teckos Pech wrote: Which is why drawing an equivalence between the character bazaar and the SP market is not quite the same. And again, why is everyone saying "Oh, it won't destroy the game so why worry?" Really, that is the bar? It won't destroy the game so it is okay? Jesus guys, pull your head out of your fourth point of contact before you suffocate. The equivalence is drawn because the points of difference are either subjective and inconsistent or more often ignoring the fact that the character bazaar is and has been used to get around SP constraints. Also you're oversimplifying or potentially reading more into some replies than you should be. "It won't destroy/ruin the game" is a response that makes sense in a thread titled "Will SP Buying Ruin the Game?" As a direct response to the question the op is asking, you should probably avoid reading anything more into it than that. Besides, given the for the most part lack of coherent negative consequences stated (despite frequent, "passionate" condemnation of the idea) I'd say there's an entirely different crowd in need of a fresh breath of air. Daniela Doran wrote: I was really about to leave actually, but then I decided to do something that I never done before in Eve. Suicide ganking. Twisted And one of my soon to be victims is in this thread. Manipulating a member of the community into participating in the destructive tendencies that fuel both your content and in game economies all from a change that the player themselves claims will destroy one if not both... ...well done CCP. Well done.
Daniela Doran Ministry of War Amarr Empire 440	Posted - 2016.01.31 06:40:42 - [73] - Quote Nat Silverguard wrote: Daniela Doran wrote: I'm finally getting to the point where I don't care anymore. But I might as well try to play this insta-leveling game since I still have a decent about of playtime left. There appears to be a lot of scrubs in Eve who relish this pay2win mechanic so it's kinda hard to predict whether this feature will ruin CCPs income or not (at least in the short term), but it will definitely ruin the game. The realness of Eve has vanish and appears to be nothing more than a fake replica of it's former self. It's only a matter of time before the scrubs discover how to take full advantage of this feature and turn this farce of a game into World of Spaceships. If CCP goals were to turn this game into a space PVP game only then they have succeeded. Now the question is just how long can a PVP only insta-gratifying Eve last? My predictions is that it will hit an all time high come this summer and when everything settles down it will hit rock bottom within 6-12 months after. So overall I predict the remaining lifespan of Eve to be between 12-18 more months. Legit question, what do you mean pay2win, can you explain/elaborate what you mean? can you give a specific example of a pay2win scenario in EvE? ty in advance. I'm trying to figure out your reasonings for asking this question? Like do you really not know? Or are trying to convince me that this feature isn't pay2win, which in this case is a waste of time. Anytime a game provides a feature that allows your char to advanced in skill or abilities by bypassing in-game mechanics in exchange for currency is what is called "pay2win". In Eve the most valuable commodities are: 1) SP (because it can only be accumulated through "time") 2) PS (Player Skill that allows you to use your SP to it's fullest potential) 3) ISK ( in game currency, needed to buy the ships, supplies and shiny trinkets) As you can see here, SP is the most valuable commodity in Eve because whether people realize it or not, Time is the one thing that cannot be bought in RL which makes it the most precious thing a person can have in his/her lifetime. What made Eve special was that it incorporated a powerful RL commodity as "Time" and made it a central part of the game's core mechanic that allows the players in it to evolve in the same way we all do as people in real time. And now that precious commodity is up for sale in exchange for the mighty buck. The people who cannot see the problem with this SP trading are the people that don't know the true value of "Time" and take it for granted. For CCP it's sheer greed. Edit: After the SP trading goes lives the most valuable commodities in Eve would be: 1) Visa, Master Card, American Express, Discover 2) PS 3) ISK
Arisidana Amadari Traders 92	Posted - 2016.01.31 06:42:46 - [74] - Quote Tyberius Franklin wrote: Daniela Doran wrote: I was really about to leave actually, but then I decided to do something that I never done before in Eve. Suicide ganking. Twisted And one of my soon to be victims is in this thread. Manipulating a member of the community into participating in the destructive tendencies that fuel both your content and in game economies all from a change that the player themselves claims will destroy one if not both... ...well done CCP. Well done. ...so, SP injectors are content creators? Brilliant idea CCP.
Tyberius Franklin Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation 1888	Posted - 2016.01.31 06:44:34 - [75] - Quote Arisidana wrote: Tyberius Franklin wrote: Daniela Doran wrote: I was really about to leave actually, but then I decided to do something that I never done before in Eve. Suicide ganking. Twisted And one of my soon to be victims is in this thread. Manipulating a member of the community into participating in the destructive tendencies that fuel both your content and in game economies all from a change that the player themselves claims will destroy one if not both... ...well done CCP. Well done. ...so, SP injectors are content creators? Brilliant idea CCP. Maybe I misread, thought she said she was suicide ganking, not selling injectors. Wait, yes, she did say ganking. Interesting.
Daniela Doran Ministry of War Amarr Empire 440	Posted - 2016.01.31 07:04:23 - [76] - Quote Arisidana wrote: Tyberius Franklin wrote: Daniela Doran wrote: I was really about to leave actually, but then I decided to do something that I never done before in Eve. Suicide ganking. Twisted And one of my soon to be victims is in this thread. Manipulating a member of the community into participating in the destructive tendencies that fuel both your content and in game economies all from a change that the player themselves claims will destroy one if not both... ...well done CCP. Well done. ...so, SP injectors are content creators? Brilliant idea CCP. This is game is gonna be dead in the water 12-18 months from now and I still have 6 months game time left, so.....might as well have some fun in that time.
Nat Silverguard Aideron Robotics 258	Posted - 2016.01.31 07:22:10 - [77] - Quote Daniela Doran wrote: Nat Silverguard wrote: Daniela Doran wrote: I'm finally getting to the point where I don't care anymore. But I might as well try to play this insta-leveling game since I still have a decent about of playtime left. There appears to be a lot of scrubs in Eve who relish this pay2win mechanic so it's kinda hard to predict whether this feature will ruin CCPs income or not (at least in the short term), but it will definitely ruin the game. The realness of Eve has vanish and appears to be nothing more than a fake replica of it's former self. It's only a matter of time before the scrubs discover how to take full advantage of this feature and turn this farce of a game into World of Spaceships. If CCP goals were to turn this game into a space PVP game only then they have succeeded. Now the question is just how long can a PVP only insta-gratifying Eve last? My predictions is that it will hit an all time high come this summer and when everything settles down it will hit rock bottom within 6-12 months after. So overall I predict the remaining lifespan of Eve to be between 12-18 more months. Legit question, what do you mean pay2win, can you explain/elaborate what you mean? can you give a specific example of a pay2win scenario in EvE? ty in advance. I'm trying to figure out your reasonings for asking this question? Like do you really not know? Or are trying to convince me that this feature isn't pay2win, which in this case is a waste of time. Anytime a game provides a feature that allows your char to advanced in skill or abilities by bypassing in-game mechanics in exchange for currency is what is called "pay2win". In Eve the most valuable commodities are: 1) SP (because it can only be accumulated through "time") 2) PS (Player Skill that allows you to use your SP to it's fullest potential) 3) ISK ( in game currency, needed to buy the ships, supplies and shiny trinkets) As you can see here, SP is the most valuable commodity in Eve because whether people realize it or not, Time is the one thing that cannot be bought in RL which makes it the most precious thing a person can have in his/her lifetime. What made Eve special was that it incorporated a powerful RL commodity as "Time" and made it a central part of the game's core mechanic that allows the players in it to evolve in the same way we all do as people in real time. And now that precious commodity is up for sale in exchange for the mighty buck. The people who cannot see the problem with this SP trading are the people that don't know the true value of "Time" and take it for granted. For CCP it's sheer greed. Edit: After the SP trading goes lives the most valuable commodities in Eve would be: 1) Visa, Master Card, American Express, Discover 2) PS 3) ISK you really can't answer my question can you, especially the part when i asked a specific scenario sample? all you ever did was label this feature as pay2win but im afraid you yourself don't understand the term. there's definitely a "pay" involved, but where's the "win" part? my point is to establish your definition of "winning". and how is having more SP = winning and therefore able to pay for SP is pay2win. if you believe that having more SP = winning then so be it, but not all of us are that dumb, sorry. Just Add Water
Daniela Doran Ministry of War Amarr Empire 440	Posted - 2016.01.31 07:35:01 - [78] - Quote Nat Silverguard wrote: Daniela Doran wrote: Nat Silverguard wrote: Daniela Doran wrote: I'm finally getting to the point where I don't care anymore. But I might as well try to play this insta-leveling game since I still have a decent about of playtime left. There appears to be a lot of scrubs in Eve who relish this pay2win mechanic so it's kinda hard to predict whether this feature will ruin CCPs income or not (at least in the short term), but it will definitely ruin the game. The realness of Eve has vanish and appears to be nothing more than a fake replica of it's former self. It's only a matter of time before the scrubs discover how to take full advantage of this feature and turn this farce of a game into World of Spaceships. If CCP goals were to turn this game into a space PVP game only then they have succeeded. Now the question is just how long can a PVP only insta-gratifying Eve last? My predictions is that it will hit an all time high come this summer and when everything settles down it will hit rock bottom within 6-12 months after. So overall I predict the remaining lifespan of Eve to be between 12-18 more months. Legit question, what do you mean pay2win, can you explain/elaborate what you mean? can you give a specific example of a pay2win scenario in EvE? ty in advance. I'm trying to figure out your reasonings for asking this question? Like do you really not know? Or are trying to convince me that this feature isn't pay2win, which in this case is a waste of time. Anytime a game provides a feature that allows your char to advanced in skill or abilities by bypassing in-game mechanics in exchange for currency is what is called "pay2win". In Eve the most valuable commodities are: 1) SP (because it can only be accumulated through "time") 2) PS (Player Skill that allows you to use your SP to it's fullest potential) 3) ISK ( in game currency, needed to buy the ships, supplies and shiny trinkets) As you can see here, SP is the most valuable commodity in Eve because whether people realize it or not, Time is the one thing that cannot be bought in RL which makes it the most precious thing a person can have in his/her lifetime. What made Eve special was that it incorporated a powerful RL commodity as "Time" and made it a central part of the game's core mechanic that allows the players in it to evolve in the same way we all do as people in real time. And now that precious commodity is up for sale in exchange for the mighty buck. The people who cannot see the problem with this SP trading are the people that don't know the true value of "Time" and take it for granted. For CCP it's sheer greed. Edit: After the SP trading goes lives the most valuable commodities in Eve would be: 1) Visa, Master Card, American Express, Discover 2) PS 3) ISK you really can't answer my question can you, especially the part when i asked a specific scenario sample? all you ever did was label this feature as pay2win but im afraid you yourself don't understand the term. there's definitely a "pay" involved, but where's the "win" part? my point is to establish your definition of "winning". and how is having more SP = winning and therefore able to pay for SP is pay2win. if you believe that having more SP = winning then so be it, but not all of us are that dumb, sorry. It's called pay2advance, you satisfied?? It still breaks the game for people who can see the problem. For those who can't then that's their problem.
Daemun Khanid Apollo Defence Industries 268	Posted - 2016.01.31 07:51:41 - [79] - Quote Perhaps the only ones who "see" the problem only see it because it's in their heads... SP injection will do nothing to EvE other than create another isk sink. Both by tempting ppl to trade in things like plex to pay for them and by flying more expensive ships that they will be able to once they have the requisite SP. Which... will then in turn create more temptation to buy more plex to get more isk to buy more shiny ships... etc etc etc. More ppl buy plex, more plex on market, plex price drops, ppl whine less and more ppl can afford to plex accounts. WHICH... means more accounts. EvE has been "dying" for 13 years according to ppl like you. News flash, it hasn't died yet, and more character SP isn't going to do it but go ahead w your sky is falling speech. It's amusing to a certain extent. (Fills my tear buckets to feed my thirst for capsuleer sorrow) Daemun of Khanid
Nat Silverguard Aideron Robotics 259	Posted - 2016.01.31 07:54:45 - [80] - Quote Daniela Doran wrote: Nat Silverguard wrote: Daniela Doran wrote: Nat Silverguard wrote: Daniela Doran wrote: I'm finally getting to the point where I don't care anymore. But I might as well try to play this insta-leveling game since I still have a decent about of playtime left. There appears to be a lot of scrubs in Eve who relish this pay2win mechanic so it's kinda hard to predict whether this feature will ruin CCPs income or not (at least in the short term), but it will definitely ruin the game. The realness of Eve has vanish and appears to be nothing more than a fake replica of it's former self. It's only a matter of time before the scrubs discover how to take full advantage of this feature and turn this farce of a game into World of Spaceships. If CCP goals were to turn this game into a space PVP game only then they have succeeded. Now the question is just how long can a PVP only insta-gratifying Eve last? My predictions is that it will hit an all time high come this summer and when everything settles down it will hit rock bottom within 6-12 months after. So overall I predict the remaining lifespan of Eve to be between 12-18 more months. Legit question, what do you mean pay2win, can you explain/elaborate what you mean? can you give a specific example of a pay2win scenario in EvE? ty in advance. I'm trying to figure out your reasonings for asking this question? Like do you really not know? Or are trying to convince me that this feature isn't pay2win, which in this case is a waste of time. Anytime a game provides a feature that allows your char to advanced in skill or abilities by bypassing in-game mechanics in exchange for currency is what is called "pay2win". In Eve the most valuable commodities are: 1) SP (because it can only be accumulated through "time") 2) PS (Player Skill that allows you to use your SP to it's fullest potential) 3) ISK ( in game currency, needed to buy the ships, supplies and shiny trinkets) As you can see here, SP is the most valuable commodity in Eve because whether people realize it or not, Time is the one thing that cannot be bought in RL which makes it the most precious thing a person can have in his/her lifetime. What made Eve special was that it incorporated a powerful RL commodity as "Time" and made it a central part of the game's core mechanic that allows the players in it to evolve in the same way we all do as people in real time. And now that precious commodity is up for sale in exchange for the mighty buck. The people who cannot see the problem with this SP trading are the people that don't know the true value of "Time" and take it for granted. For CCP it's sheer greed. Edit: After the SP trading goes lives the most valuable commodities in Eve would be: 1) Visa, Master Card, American Express, Discover 2) PS 3) ISK you really can't answer my question can you, especially the part when i asked a specific scenario sample? all you ever did was label this feature as pay2win but im afraid you yourself don't understand the term. there's definitely a "pay" involved, but where's the "win" part? my point is to establish your definition of "winning". and how is having more SP = winning and therefore able to pay for SP is pay2win. if you believe that having more SP = winning then so be it, but not all of us are that dumb, sorry. It's called pay2advance, you satisfied?? It still breaks the game for people who can see the problem. For those who can't then that's their problem. see, this is the issue, this is not your typical theme park game wherein having more XP is an advantage. it is not and never will be. again, give me a specific scenario wherein a SPed newbro will gain an advantage over you, be it PvP or PvE, just 1 example, please, i beg you. Just Add Water
xxxTRUSTxxx Galactic Rangers EVEolution. 431	Posted - 2016.01.31 08:56:29 - [81] - Quote Daniela Doran wrote: This is game is gonna be dead in the water 12-18 months from now and I still have 6 months game time left, so.....might as well have some fun in that time. wrong and right in one sentence. EVE is Dying SoonGäó --- Nope, wrong on so many levels. might as well have some fun in that time. --- Yes, now you have the idea, have some fun, nothing lasts forever so why spend the time you have worrying about something that's going to happen one day anyway? this whole predict the day EVE dies thing is pretty lame and so on par with moon hoax, flat earth, big foot is real, an asteroid is going to hit us bullshite. give it a rest and go play the fecking game.
Daniela Doran Ministry of War Amarr Empire 441	Posted - 2016.01.31 09:42:35 - [82] - Quote Nat Silverguard wrote: Daniela Doran wrote: I'm finally getting to the point where I don't care anymore. But I might as well try to play this insta-leveling game since I still have a decent about of playtime left. There appears to be a lot of scrubs in Eve who relish this pay2win mechanic so it's kinda hard to predict whether this feature will ruin CCPs income or not (at least in the short term), but it will definitely ruin the game. The realness of Eve has vanish and appears to be nothing more than a fake replica of it's former self. It's only a matter of time before the scrubs discover how to take full advantage of this feature and turn this farce of a game into World of Spaceships. If CCP goals were to turn this game into a space PVP game only then they have succeeded. Now the question is just how long can a PVP only insta-gratifying Eve last? My predictions is that it will hit an all time high come this summer and when everything settles down it will hit rock bottom within 6-12 months after. So overall I predict the remaining lifespan of Eve to be between 12-18 more months. Legit question, what do you mean pay2win, can you explain/elaborate what you mean? can you give a specific example of a pay2win scenario in EvE? ty in advance. I'm trying to figure out your reasonings for asking this question? Like do you really not know? Or are trying to convince me that this feature isn't pay2win, which in this case is a waste of time. Anytime a game provides a feature that allows your char to advanced in skill or abilities by bypassing in-game mechanics in exchange for currency is what is called "pay2win". In Eve the most valuable commodities are: 1) SP (because it can only be accumulated through "time") 2) PS (Player Skill that allows you to use your SP to it's fullest potential) 3) ISK ( in game currency, needed to buy the ships, supplies and shiny trinkets) As you can see here, SP is the most valuable commodity in Eve because whether people realize it or not, Time is the one thing that cannot be bought in RL which makes it the most precious thing a person can have in his/her lifetime. What made Eve special was that it incorporated a powerful RL commodity as "Time" and made it a central part of the game's core mechanic that allows the players in it to evolve in the same way we all do as people in real time. And now that precious commodity is up for sale in exchange for the mighty buck. The people who cannot see the problem with this SP trading are the people that don't know the true value of "Time" and take it for granted. For CCP it's sheer greed. Edit: After the SP trading goes lives the most valuable commodities in Eve would be: 1) Visa, Master Card, American Express, Discover 2) PS 3) ISK you really can't answer my question can you, especially the part when i asked a specific scenario sample? all you ever did was label this feature as pay2win but im afraid you yourself don't understand the term. there's definitely a "pay" involved, but where's the "win" part? my point is to establish your definition of "winning". and how is having more SP = winning and therefore able to pay for SP is pay2win. if you believe that having more SP = winning then so be it, but not all of us are that dumb, sorry. It's called pay2advance, you satisfied?? It still breaks the game for people who can see the problem. For those who can't then that's their problem. see, this is the issue, this is not your typical theme park game wherein having more XP is an advantage. it is not and never will be. again, give me a specific scenario wherein a SPed newbro will gain an advantage over you, be it PvP or PvE, just 1 example, please, i beg you. Sigh.. Okay I'll use PVP as an example since that's all the majority of players who are in favor of SP trading can comprehend. Fact is even with your mighty PVP skills, if you don't have the proper fitting, tank, ships, utility and weapon support skills, you're not gonna win against a newbro who bought 30 mill SP to fly a max out Deimos. It regular takes 7-8 months to obtain such skills but the newbro bought his SP and obtaining same skills in 1-2 months. That's 5-6 months more time to fly and perfect the skills needed to fly that Deimos while the regular player is still training skills to fly the Thorax. Noobs can now fly the latest ships in trend within 1 month like the HICs and T3Ds with max skills. Whereas before they had to train all the relevant skills by patiently waiting 6-12 months like everyone else did until now. I know what you're gonna say...SP don't equals actual piloting skills yada yada. But this is besides the point, even then a noob have much quicker access to top of line T2 ships that he can practice flying on SiSi and get those mighty skills that you PVP pros covet so much in no time. Within 3-6 months, these noobs flying T2 and T3Cs would be at or around equal footing with you PVP pros in SP and PS whereas it took you regular vets 1+years to reach the same level. Again I say people who don't know the value of time is oblivious to all reasons is to why this is a big problem.
Lan Wang Knights of the Posing Meat FETID 2357	Posted - 2016.01.31 10:03:28 - [83] - Quote who cares about time really? concentrate on your time because you are wasting time concerning yourself with other peoples time "Yeah. Put your tears in a jet can and leave them on your undock for your assailants to pick up. If they're camping you, I'm sure they're going to get thirsty." - Darth Squeemus ............................... Angel Cartel \|\| Serpentis
Mr Mieyli Hedion University Amarr Empire 168	Posted - 2016.01.31 10:49:40 - [84] - Quote Daniela Doran wrote: It regular takes 7-8 months to obtain such skills but the newbro bought his SP and obtaining same skills in 1-2 months. This is one of the reasons SP buying bothers me. Newbros will no longer have the same feeling we all had when we were new, flying around in frigates going "wow look at all these massive ships, one day that will be me". Now there is no wait, there is no buildup, no hype for the next ship class or whatever skills you just bought. I can see people buying the SP they want, getting into their pimp t3 and then getting bored in a short time when they have nothing to look forward to character-progression-wise. Literally the only thing about your character that will be his anymore will be his name. For the people who that is enough for, why not play CoD? A case for more AoE in EvE
Nat Silverguard Aideron Robotics 259	Posted - 2016.01.31 10:54:54 - [85] - Quote Daniela Doran wrote: Sigh.. Okay I'll use PVP as an example since that's all the majority of players who are in favor of SP trading can comprehend. Fact is even with your mighty PVP skills, if you don't have the proper fitting, tank, ships, utility and weapon support skills, you're not gonna win against a newbro who bought 30 mill SP to fly a max out Deimos. It regular takes 7-8 months to obtain such skills but the newbro bought his SP and obtaining same skills in 1-2 months. That's 5-6 months more time to fly and perfect the skills needed to fly that Deimos while the regular player is still training skills to fly the Thorax. Noobs can now fly the latest ships in trend within 1 month like the HICs and T3Ds with max skills. Whereas before they had to train all the relevant skills by patiently waiting 6-12 months like everyone else did until now. I know what you're gonna say...SP don't equals actual piloting skills yada yada. But this is besides the point, even then a noob have much quicker access to top of line T2 ships that he can practice flying on SiSi and get those mighty skills that you PVP pros covet so much in no time. Within 3-6 months, these noobs flying T2 and T3Cs would be at or around equal footing with you PVP pros in SP and PS whereas it took you regular vets 1+years to reach the same level. Again I say people who don't know the value of time is oblivious to all reasons as to why this is a big problem. this clearly shows how limited and shallow your logic is. imagine a 2013 character just as yourself (assuming you're pvp pilot as well) who knows how tracking/sig radius/optimal range/fall-off works more than the newbro on the same ship/equal footing, are you telling me you won't be able to defeat him? do you think a newbro can defeat a veteran who can do amazing things like making a warpin against an off-grid moving fleet using dscan only? now, if you have lower SP than him and he's in a better ship, why would you even engage him? one essential trait in solo pvp to have is to know your engagement profiles. if he wants to play with me then ill force him to fly a frigate and kill him then. on fleet, well his high SP doesn't really matter on a fleet fight, infact the shinier his ship is, the quicker he'll be primaried and die. he can fly the trendiest ship or even a titan for all i care, the SPed bro, would either die quickly in a shiny ship or of boredom/blue balls because nobody would play with him. and after all that money spent, he'll come to realize that SP doesn't really matter and that bigger doesn't always means better. what matters are the experiences you have accumulated in your +1 yr of playing, like to cycle your ARRs, warp to accel gates at 10km and never 0, turn-off your mwd when you tackled your target, simple things like that. Just Add Water
Nat Silverguard Aideron Robotics 261	Posted - 2016.01.31 11:04:49 - [86] - Quote Mr Mieyli wrote: Daniela Doran wrote: It regular takes 7-8 months to obtain such skills but the newbro bought his SP and obtaining same skills in 1-2 months. This is one of the reasons SP buying bothers me. Newbros will no longer have the same feeling we all had when we were new, flying around in frigates going "wow look at all these massive ships, one day that will be me". Now there is no wait, there is no buildup, no hype for the next ship class or whatever skills you just bought. I can see people buying the SP they want, getting into their pimp t3 and then getting bored in a short time when they have nothing to look forward to character-progression-wise. Literally the only thing about your character that will be his anymore will be his name. For the people who that is enough for, why not play CoD? if they left because of boredom then nothing of value was lost. besides, 7-8 months is how much SP? around 8-10M? so at 500k per extractor that would mean 16 to 20 extractors. basing on the speculation thread, that's alot of money. now, im not saying there won't be anybody capable of buying 20 extractors in one go, but imho, it would be minimal and negligible, so majority of people are still gonna train. Just Add Water
sero Hita Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 121	Posted - 2016.01.31 11:22:56 - [87] - Quote Daniela Doran wrote: Sigh.. Okay I'll use PVP as an example since that's all the majority of players who are in favor of SP trading can comprehend. Fact is even with your mighty PVP skills, if you don't have the proper fitting, tank, ships, utility and weapon support skills, you're not gonna win against a newbro who bought 30 mill SP to fly a max out Deimos. It regular takes 7-8 months to obtain such skills but the newbro bought his SP and obtaining same skills in 1-2 months. That's 5-6 months more time to fly and perfect the skills needed to fly that Deimos while the regular player is still training skills to fly the Thorax. Noobs can now fly the latest ships in trend within 1 month like the HICs and T3Ds with max skills. Whereas before they had to train all the relevant skills by patiently waiting 6-12 months like everyone else did until now. I know what you're gonna say...SP don't equals actual piloting skills yada yada. But this is besides the point, even then a noob have much quicker access to top of line T2 ships that he can practice flying on SiSi and get those mighty skills that you PVP pros covet so much in no time. Within 3-6 months, these noobs flying T2 and T3Cs would be at or around equal footing with you PVP pros in SP and PS whereas it took you regular vets 1+years to reach the same level. Again I say people who don't know the value of time is oblivious to all reasons as to why this is a big problem. Tbh. this is a weird argument. I don't see why the newbie who bought SP (Which will probably be pretty expensive) and gained player skillls superior to yours, should not be allowed to beat you? In your argument it sounds more like you are annoyed that newer players might be able to beat you, than the actual SP changes. This seems like more like an ego thing, than a problem with the implemented mechanism imo. "I'm all for pvp, don't get me wrong. I've ganked in Empire, blobed in low sec. Got T-shirts from every which-where.. But to be forced into a pvp confrontation that I didn't want is wrong ccp." RealFlisker
Avvy Republic University Minmatar Republic 291	Posted - 2016.01.31 11:29:52 - [88] - Quote Daniela Doran wrote: The people who cannot see the problem with this SP trading are the people that don't know the true value of "Time" and take it for granted. For CCP it's sheer greed. The value of time, what is that exactly. It's very subjective. Waiting for time to pass is actually quite boring. If that's what you are doing then the value isn't in time but in saving time. CCP's sheer greed? Why deny them a means of making an increased income when other companies are now doing it, they are a business after all. It seems to be the way of the modern MMO. In GW2 when that was fairly new, I spent more than a years EVE subscription on their shop in less than 2 months.
Mr Mieyli Hedion University Amarr Empire 169	Posted - 2016.01.31 11:56:02 - [89] - Quote Avvy wrote: Waiting for time to pass is actually quite boring. If that's what you are doing then the value isn't in time but in saving time. Like you say it's subjective, I find the wait builds excitement for whatever it is I'm waiting for (within reason). If you aren't a fan of waiting then I have some bad news for you, EvE is a slow game. The joy is in the journey as it were. The new players who would appreciate shortcuts like skill packets will still be massively annoyed by all the other time consuming activities in EvE. I can also see down the line, and I mean long term, that many pilots will end up with exactly the same set of min-maxed skills and I feel this is bad for the game. A case for more AoE in EvE
Avvy Republic University Minmatar Republic 291	Posted - 2016.01.31 12:19:01 - [90] - Quote Mr Mieyli wrote: The new players who would appreciate shortcuts like skill packets will still be massively annoyed by all the other time consuming activities in EvE. I can also see down the line, and I mean long term, that many pilots will end up with exactly the same set of min-maxed skills and I feel this is bad for the game. Does that really matter, the main point in a game is to enjoy it and have fun, if that's not happening then there's something wrong. Having two players evenly matched is going to create better PvP than having unevenly matched sides at least in general. I don't think in EVE there is just one right way, in groups you will still need people doing different things. I don't know if they've agreed on this next point, but I think there should be a limit to the sp packets usefulness.
Lucas Kell Internet Terrorists SpaceMonkey's Alliance 7150	Posted - 2016.01.31 13:15:09 - [91] - Quote Paranoid Loyd wrote: Lucas Kell wrote: Which is exactly the same as any other P2W game. No Lucas, it's not, but that's some nice bait. It's not bait, it's a fact. P2W is never a payment for actual victory. I don't know of a single game where you pay real money and get a button that simply makes you win. What I do know of is many games with give you better gear and more resources which give you an advantage, neither of which will do you any good if you are terrible at the game. Further, a new player buying items will still often be behind non-paying veterans but ahead of people that start alongside them but don't pay. This is no different. The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog. Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
Avvy Republic University Minmatar Republic 291	Posted - 2016.01.31 13:25:51 - [92] - Quote Lucas Kell wrote: Paranoid Loyd wrote: Lucas Kell wrote: Which is exactly the same as any other P2W game. No Lucas, it's not, but that's some nice bait. It's not bait, it's a fact. P2W is never a payment for actual victory. I don't know of a single game where you pay real money and get a button that simply makes you win. What I do know of is many games with give you better gear and more resources which give you an advantage, neither of which will do you any good if you are terrible at the game. Further, a new player buying items will still often be behind non-paying veterans but ahead of people that start alongside them but don't pay. This is no different. In reference to the underlined and bolded part. This is from an earlier post of mine Quote: This is an extract from the Urban Dictionary 'Games that let you buy better gear or allow you to make better items than everyone else at a faster rate and then makes the game largely unbalanced...' Those examples you give are P2W, sp packets only save you time, they are an advantage but not P2W.
Arthur Hannigen 30	Posted - 2016.01.31 13:48:46 - [93] - Quote 1. Urban Dictionary? Seriously? 2. Two players being equally the same in (age, skill, etc), you don't see how the one purchasing SP's will have a greater advantage over the one that doesn't?
Altair Taurus 37	Posted - 2016.01.31 13:54:53 - [94] - Quote let's face reality here - some old nerds are crying because they are narked at CCP wanting to earn some money and they hate new reality where new players can reach their SP level quite quickly. That's their own problem. EVE Online and players community will move forward regardless of stupid of arguments of those haters. EVE Online won't be over in next months. At best those haters will leave the game beaten-up in PvP by large numbers of SP boosted "scrubs". Anyway they can always try MOBA or similar game.
Lucas Kell Internet Terrorists SpaceMonkey's Alliance 7154	Posted - 2016.01.31 13:59:40 - [95] - Quote Yes, as Arthur pointed out, urban dictionary is laughable. It's not exactly a quality source of information. Avvy wrote: Those examples you give are P2W, sp packets only save you time, they are an advantage but not P2W. What game can you pay to win? Like literally win. So a game where I can pay some cash, and even if I'm completely terrible at the game and can't even figure out basic movement controls, I can win anyway from the "I win" button I bought. P2W is always pay for advantage in reality. What that urban dictionary entry is talking about is different types of advantage, between buying something unique which you can only get for cash, vs paying to skip content and get something you can get for free but without waiting. Either way it's an advantage over someone that started in the same situation but didn't pay. Not that you claim my examples are P2W, so why is buying resources in a game P2W, but buying SP - which is a resource - isn't? The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog. Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
Primary This Rifter 4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation 1073	Posted - 2016.01.31 14:04:16 - [96] - Quote Will trading SP ruin the game? I don't know. I'm no longer convinced it will. But I'm certainly not convinced it won't.
Lucas Kell Internet Terrorists SpaceMonkey's Alliance 7154	Posted - 2016.01.31 14:05:38 - [97] - Quote Altair Taurus wrote: Let's face reality here - some old-timers are crying because they are narked at CCP wanting to earn some money and they hate new reality where new players can reach their SP level quite quickly. That's their own problem! EVE Online and players community will move forward regardless of stupid arguments presented by those haters. EVE Online won't be over in the next months. At best those haters will leave the game beaten-up in PvP by large numbers of SP boosted "scrubs". Anyway they can always try MOBA games. I'm not crying at anything, I'm fully embracing the fact that CCP are chucking microtrans into the game like mad, I'm just not pretending it isn't what it is or trying to find ways to excuse it. The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog. Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
Avvy Republic University Minmatar Republic 292	Posted - 2016.01.31 14:07:50 - [98] - Quote Lucas Kell wrote: Yes, as Arthur pointed out, urban dictionary is laughable. It's not exactly a quality source of information. Avvy wrote: Those examples you give are P2W, sp packets only save you time, they are an advantage but not P2W. What game can you pay to win? Like literally win. So a game where I can pay some cash, and even if I'm completely terrible at the game and can't even figure out basic movement controls, I can win anyway from the "I win" button I bought. P2W is always pay for advantage in reality. What that urban dictionary entry is talking about is different types of advantage, between buying something unique which you can only get for cash, vs paying to skip content and get something you can get for free but without waiting. Either way it's an advantage over someone that started in the same situation but didn't pay. Not that you claim my examples are P2W, so why is buying resources in a game P2W, but buying SP - which is a resource - isn't? If you look at it the way you are the game would already be P2W even without the addition of skill packets.
Lan Wang Knights of the Posing Meat FETID 2359	Posted - 2016.01.31 14:08:58 - [99] - Quote just think though. Noob buys sp the possibilites are endless. highsec: noobs can now be in a hulk or t2 mining ship so you mining corps can swindle more tax from players and make more money. lowsec: more battleship pilots, t3, and ahac pilots. nullsec: same as lowsec sov: more monkey ratters and f1 pushers making sov more money from taxes and bigger blobs. I dont see it as an issue it gives new players the chance to be more relevant in the game, allbeit they will die alot but it does make the game much more fun when you can actually fly main doctrine ships instead of ewar or frigates for months on end. CCP are going to make a ton of money from this and it will only help the developmen of the game "Yeah. Put your tears in a jet can and leave them on your undock for your assailants to pick up. If they're camping you, I'm sure they're going to get thirsty." - Darth Squeemus ............................... Angel Cartel \|\| Serpentis
Lucas Kell Internet Terrorists SpaceMonkey's Alliance 7155	Posted - 2016.01.31 14:12:40 - [100] - Quote Avvy wrote: If you look at it the way you are the game would already be P2W even without the addition of skill packets. Indeed it is, this is just adding another aspect to that, making it "more P2W" if you will. The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog. Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
sero Hita Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 121	Posted - 2016.01.31 14:12:48 - [101] - Quote Lucas Kell wrote: Yes, as Arthur pointed out, urban dictionary is laughable. It's not exactly a quality source of information. Avvy wrote: Those examples you give are P2W, sp packets only save you time, they are an advantage but not P2W. What game can you pay to win? Like literally win. So a game where I can pay some cash, and even if I'm completely terrible at the game and can't even figure out basic movement controls, I can win anyway from the "I win" button I bought. P2W is always pay for advantage in reality. What that urban dictionary entry is talking about is different types of advantage, between buying something unique which you can only get for cash, vs paying to skip content and get something you can get for free but without waiting. Either way it's an advantage over someone that started in the same situation but didn't pay. Not that you claim my examples are P2W, so why is buying resources in a game P2W, but buying SP - which is a resource - isn't? The usual definition of pay2win is buying an advantage you could not get without paying. Which is why the new EVE model is not pay2win, in a strict sense. You can stilll get to the same point, by waiting. And let us not forget that the veterans are already there right now. Due to EVE skill hard caps people who buy SP will not be better off than the veterans who already has most of all the skills divided on 3-4 alts. My definition of pay2win is build on this article from IGN discussing free2play vs pay2win. The interesting part from the IGN article: " The much maligned GÇÿpay to winGÇÖ label in the West, where users can only really advance by handing over money, is pretty much a standard for distribution and financial gain in China. " If you can show another definition that you did not make up yourself, I would love to see it. "I'm all for pvp, don't get me wrong. I've ganked in Empire, blobed in low sec. Got T-shirts from every which-where.. But to be forced into a pvp confrontation that I didn't want is wrong ccp." RealFlisker
Arthur Hannigen 30	Posted - 2016.01.31 14:17:08 - [102] - Quote Altair Taurus wrote: Let's face reality here - some old-timers are crying because they are narked at CCP wanting to earn some money and they hate new reality where new players can reach their SP level quite quickly. That's their own problem! EVE Online and players community will move forward regardless of stupid arguments presented by those haters. EVE Online won't be over in the next months. At best those haters will leave the game beaten-up in PvP by large numbers of SP boosted "scrubs". Anyway they can always try MOBA games. I can't speak for everyone else. But in my opinion, I think CCP does not have much of a choice than to go the P2W way. I think that as of late CCP has made it crystal clear it is resolute in its intent to keep Eve a niche game meant only for the few. So at that point, what choices are there to keep it "successful" and relevant? If you have any better ideas on how to keep a game afloat without new blood, by all means please share. Like Lucas, I say "just do it". But to see some convincing themselves this is not P2W is giving me a few chuckles.
Avvy Republic University Minmatar Republic 292	Posted - 2016.01.31 14:22:32 - [103] - Quote Lucas Kell wrote: Avvy wrote: If you look at it the way you are the game would already be P2W even without the addition of skill packets. Indeed it is, this is just adding another aspect to that, making it "more P2W" if you will. Then it doesn't matter. If I was to accept your definition of P2W, which I don't. PLEX would be P2W. A character from the bazaar would be P2W A second account would be P2W. Using your definition, how many accounts do you have. Have you paid to win?
W33b3l The Scope Gallente Federation 25	Posted - 2016.01.31 14:30:25 - [104] - Quote Regardless of all the arguing over if it's good or bad. I don't like it. I don't like the fact that it's going to remove part of the game for some people that was there before. Its not a needed mechanic. I'm not up in arms about it, I just don't like the idea. If they are going to do this, they should list the amount of SP a character has where other players can see it when they click the info button on them. That way you have some clue to what is going on when you see a week old character in a BS. Gauging targets and all that.
Lucas Kell Internet Terrorists SpaceMonkey's Alliance 7155	Posted - 2016.01.31 14:31:44 - [105] - Quote sero Hita wrote: The usual definition of pay2win is buying an advantage you could not get without paying. Which is why the new EVE model is not pay2win, in a strict sense. You can stilll get to the same point, by waiting. And let us not forget that the veterans are already there right now. Due to EVE skill hard caps people who buy SP will not be better off than the veterans who already has most of all the skills divided on 3-4 alts. My definition of pay2win is build on this article from IGN discussing free2play vs pay2win. The interesting part from the IGN article: " The much maligned GÇÿpay to winGÇÖ label in the West, where users can only really advance by handing over money, is pretty much a standard for distribution and financial gain in China. " If you can show another definition that you did not make up yourself, I would love to see it. There isn't really a solid definition, since it's simply a derogatory term for games that allow microtransactions, like they say on engadget, "The problem is that there is no agreed-upon definition of pay-to-win. "Convenience" items are a good case in point. Some folks don't mind them, while others point out that they can make your character more powerful in less time, depending on the system." But consider games from companies like Zynga, like Farmville. These are pretty much all classed as pay to win games by most people, yet all (or at least most) of them can be played for free and you can advance without playing, albeit much much slower. Also, going by the overly broad IGN definition you've given above, all paid games are pay to win, since you can't progress in the game unless you are able to play it, and you aren't able to play it (legally) without paying. For subscription MMOs, paying the subscription is a prerequisite for progression. Of course though a newbie paying cash isn't going to suddenly be better than a veteran with several years of playtime, just like someone paying a few hundred dollars into Farmville won't suddenly have a bigger farm than a free to play player who's been playing for years. What they will have though is an advantage over other people starting at the same time who don't pay, and a closer to level playing field with veterans. The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog. Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
Altair Taurus 38	Posted - 2016.01.31 14:33:38 - [106] - Quote Once again - let's face reality: EVE is quite old game introduced in completely different market environment. Think a bit how MMO games business model looks today: - we have many examples of quite successful F2P games with additional extra charges (WoT, WT) - games that were based on paid subscriptions are moving away from this model (TESO) - introduction of microtransacrions is widespread (i.e. WOW Tokens and instant max. level instant boost) I don't know how CCP could escape this trend. This trend also creates new players behaviors thus new players are more and more used to new MMO reality. They want quick in-game progress and they are willing to pay for this. EVE Online with its current mechanic is not newbie friendly game and this is one of primary reasons of low player retention, shrinking playerbase and (possibly) lower CCP incomes. That's why CCP has to react accordingly.
Lucas Kell Internet Terrorists SpaceMonkey's Alliance 7155	Posted - 2016.01.31 14:35:42 - [107] - Quote Avvy wrote: Then it doesn't matter. If I was to accept your definition of P2W, which I don't. Yeah, I get that, you're only accepting it as pay to win if you can pay for an item which doesn't exist to anyone else, yet you've stated yourself that paying players will now be able to get more of an advantage that the previously available paid advantage. So effectively we agree on everything except the terminology, so let's simply call it "pay for advantage", and at the same time point out that most games called as "P2W" by the general public should also be reclassified as "pay for advantage". The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog. Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
sero Hita Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 121	Posted - 2016.01.31 14:38:40 - [108] - Quote W33b3l wrote: Regardless of all the arguing over if it's good or bad. I don't like it. I don't like the fact that it's going to remove part of the game for some people that was there before. Its not a needed mechanic. I'm not up in arms about it, I just don't like the idea. If they are going to do this, they should list the amount of SP a character has where other players can see it when they click the info button on them. That way you have some clue to what is going on when you see a week old character in a BS. Gauging targets and all that. I understand your point. I also understand why CCP won't do that. Suggesting this would lead to that people who are against it could pick out people who used SP, like a shaming process. I understand why the people against SP trading would do this. They want to limit the amount of people using SP packets, as they think it is a bad mechanic. CCP did implement this to earn more money, so I am pretty sure they have no interest giving a small minority of the community the tools to decrease their newly implemented monetization plat form. Just my opinion. "I'm all for pvp, don't get me wrong. I've ganked in Empire, blobed in low sec. Got T-shirts from every which-where.. But to be forced into a pvp confrontation that I didn't want is wrong ccp." RealFlisker
Mag's Rabble Inc. Rabble Alliance 21082	Posted - 2016.01.31 14:46:52 - [109] - Quote sero Hita wrote: W33b3l wrote: Regardless of all the arguing over if it's good or bad. I don't like it. I don't like the fact that it's going to remove part of the game for some people that was there before. Its not a needed mechanic. I'm not up in arms about it, I just don't like the idea. If they are going to do this, they should list the amount of SP a character has where other players can see it when they click the info button on them. That way you have some clue to what is going on when you see a week old character in a BS. Gauging targets and all that. I understand your point. I also understand why CCP won't do that. Suggesting this would lead to that people who are against it could pick out people who used SP, like a shaming process. I understand why the people against SP trading would do this. They want to limit the amount of people using SP packets, as they think it is a bad mechanic. CCP did implement this to earn more money, so I am pretty sure they have no interest giving a small minority of the community the tools to decrease their newly implemented monetization plat form. Just my opinion. One of the reasons most people were OK with the Bazaar, was due to it's limitations. You couldn't choose the name, had to have what you deemed acceptable in regards to the skill sheet and if someone took the time to look, had a I've bought this character post to indicate originality. Now, not so much. In fact, not at all. Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
Mr Mieyli Hedion University Amarr Empire 176	Posted - 2016.01.31 14:52:22 - [110] - Quote Altair Taurus wrote: Once again - let's face reality: EVE is quite old game introduced in completely different market environment. Think a bit how MMO business model looks today: - we have many examples of quite successful F2P games with additional extra charges included (WoT, WT) - games that were based on paid subscriptions are moving away from this model (TESO) - an introduction of microtransactions is widespread (i.e. WOW Tokens and max. level instant boost) I don't know how CCP could escape this trend. This trend also creates new players habits thus new players are more and more used to new MMO reality. They want quick in-game progress and they are willing to pay for that. They do not want to wait months to be able to fly decent ships effectively. So EVE Online with its current SP mechanic is not newbie friendly game and this is one of primary reasons of low retention, shrinking playerbase and (possibly) lower CCP incomes. That's why CCP has to react accordingly. Maybe I'm an old timer (just pretend for this analogy) but I like going to a nice restaurant and ordering a well prepared steak, it takes some time for the chef to make it just the way I like but this is the only restaurant in town that makes it how I like. McDonalds and Starbucks are popping up all over the place and making more money than my favourite restaurant, but all they offer is quick, sugary, fatty food that tastes nice but leaves you feeling bad afterwards. Should the nice restaurant say, "well we are a steak place and we have regular paying customers who will stick with us because they like their steaks, but we're going to go after more profit and turn into a fast-food joint" ? If they do are they really going to steal McDonalds crowd of customers? No. Are they going to lose the customers they do have who just want a nice steak? Yes. I personally don't see why we should lower the bar for people who don't want to play the game that we are all playing and enjoying. A case for more AoE in EvE
Avvy Republic University Minmatar Republic 292	Posted - 2016.01.31 14:53:24 - [111] - Quote Lucas Kell wrote: Avvy wrote: Then it doesn't matter. If I was to accept your definition of P2W, which I don't. Yeah, I get that, you're only accepting it as pay to win if you can pay for an item which doesn't exist to anyone else, yet you've stated yourself that paying players will now be able to get more of an advantage that the previously available paid advantage. So effectively we agree on everything except the terminology, so let's simply call it "pay for advantage", and at the same time point out that most games called as "P2W" by the general public should also be reclassified as "pay for advantage". Like a lot of gaming terms they're supposed to distinguish between different types of games. Not always to be taken literally. Which does tend to cause a lot of debate over what the terms actually mean. But if the game was already P2W, then we shouldn't be looking at a P2W reason for not adding sp packets. We should just be looking at will it benefit the game or not.
J'Poll Perkone Caldari State 6274	Posted - 2016.01.31 14:57:00 - [112] - Quote Will Buying Skill Points Ruin The Game? Let me counter question: Has buying characters from the bazaar ruined the game? As in a sense, it's just the same thing, only you can now tailor make your character and pick your own name. Personal channel: Crazy Dutch Guy Help channel: Help chat - Reloaded Public roams channels: RvB Ganked / Redemption Road / Spectre Fleet / Bombers bar / The Content Club
Mag's Rabble Inc. Rabble Alliance 21082	Posted - 2016.01.31 15:04:24 - [113] - Quote J'Poll wrote: Will Buying Skill Points Ruin The Game? Let me counter question: Has buying characters from the bazaar ruined the game? As in a sense, it's just the same thing, only you can now tailor make your character and pick your own name. I love how when someone says it's the same as the bazaar, they seems to always qualify it with 'in a sense' or 'almost', or 'nearly' or 'except that'. Another example. Stitch Kaneland wrote: The SP trading thing is no different than the character bazaar that has been around for years. Except instead of trading full characters, you can just buy/sell the SP. I almost won the lottery once. Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
sero Hita Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 123	Posted - 2016.01.31 15:10:07 - [114] - Quote Mag's wrote: sero Hita wrote: W33b3l wrote: Regardless of all the arguing over if it's good or bad. I don't like it. I don't like the fact that it's going to remove part of the game for some people that was there before. Its not a needed mechanic. I'm not up in arms about it, I just don't like the idea. If they are going to do this, they should list the amount of SP a character has where other players can see it when they click the info button on them. That way you have some clue to what is going on when you see a week old character in a BS. Gauging targets and all that. I understand your point. I also understand why CCP won't do that. Suggesting this would lead to that people who are against it could pick out people who used SP, like a shaming process. I understand why the people against SP trading would do this. They want to limit the amount of people using SP packets, as they think it is a bad mechanic. CCP did implement this to earn more money, so I am pretty sure they have no interest giving a small minority of the community the tools to decrease their newly implemented monetization plat form. Just my opinion. One of the reasons most people were OK with the Bazaar, was due to it's limitations. You couldn't choose the name, had to have what you deemed acceptable in regards to the skill sheet and if someone took the time to look, had a I've bought this character post to indicate originality. Now, not so much. In fact, not at all. True, no limitations but what the market puts on the SP packets. I am okay with this though. If one is so inclined that they don't want to buy SP packets, I still think they can compete though. EVE has so many game play mechanisms that one can use to counter better skills. An example: I earn my ISK by supplying a small tradehub, that no one else wants to seed. I earn decent enough to pvp. That people can buy SP and get better trade skills than me will not change that. They will still not go through the hassle to seed a station in the middle of no where. In PVP if someone flies a better ship, with better skills I call in reinforcements and blop the sun out of him. Regardless if he is a veteran or just bought the exp. That is the beauty of EVE with some effort, there will always be a place in space where you can be king, even if others have higher SP. That is why I am not too worried. "I'm all for pvp, don't get me wrong. I've ganked in Empire, blobed in low sec. Got T-shirts from every which-where.. But to be forced into a pvp confrontation that I didn't want is wrong ccp." RealFlisker
Avvy Republic University Minmatar Republic 292	Posted - 2016.01.31 15:22:16 - [115] - Quote sero Hita wrote: True, no limitations but what the market puts on the SP packets. The limitations will be their cost and the declining benefit. But there should also be a point where they no longer work.
Trader20 Hedion University Amarr Empire 10	Posted - 2016.01.31 15:40:58 - [116] - Quote Avvy wrote: sero Hita wrote: True, no limitations but what the market puts on the SP packets. The limitations will be their cost and the declining benefit. But there should also be a point where they no longer work. aka diminishing returns
sero Hita Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 124	Posted - 2016.01.31 15:49:21 - [117] - Quote Avvy wrote: sero Hita wrote: True, no limitations but what the market puts on the SP packets. The limitations will be their cost and the declining benefit. But there should also be a point where they no longer work. People talk about this like it is a pixel ship that should be balanced. It is not though. It is to increase the income of CCP, in a relatively harmless way imo. I am sure they have investors breathing down their necks after the last few years failed projects. They could have come up with something worse, or have closed the game for example. You also don't balance income streams negatively. I understand your point, but have to say that your expectation for them to put restrictions on something they have to live from, is naive. I also don't see why they should. "I'm all for pvp, don't get me wrong. I've ganked in Empire, blobed in low sec. Got T-shirts from every which-where.. But to be forced into a pvp confrontation that I didn't want is wrong ccp." RealFlisker
Avvy Republic University Minmatar Republic 292	Posted - 2016.01.31 15:52:40 - [118] - Quote Trader20 wrote: Avvy wrote: sero Hita wrote: True, no limitations but what the market puts on the SP packets. The limitations will be their cost and the declining benefit. But there should also be a point where they no longer work. aka diminishing returns Yeah, except that with diminishing returns you don't know where someone will deem them not worth the cost. Diminishing returns with a cut-off point I think would be better. It might mean the with diminishing returns you won't get to the cut-off point, but it doesn't hurt to have one.
Minkki University of Caille Gallente Federation 0	Posted - 2016.01.31 15:56:06 - [119] - Quote I can buy tons of plexes, go to character bazaar, buy a titan pilot, go to sell forums, buy a titan and by Friday, I am flying titan after one week in EVE.
sero Hita Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 124	Posted - 2016.01.31 15:59:40 - [120] - Quote Avvy wrote: Yeah, except that with diminishing returns you don't know where someone will deem them not worth the cost. Diminishing returns with a cut-off point I think would be better. It might mean that with diminishing returns you won't get to the cut-off point, but it doesn't hurt to have one. It also doesn't help to have a cut-off. From CCPs point of view, there is no reason to implement this. I am certain if they did that the forums would be full of vets complaining about why they get no cookies? From a business point of view your suggestion makes no sense, and it seems like something few would care for. edit. they even increased the amount of SP vets get from the injectors. This was due to complaints from the community. "I'm all for pvp, don't get me wrong. I've ganked in Empire, blobed in low sec. Got T-shirts from every which-where.. But to be forced into a pvp confrontation that I didn't want is wrong ccp." RealFlisker
Jacques d'Orleans The Scope Gallente Federation 2576	Posted - 2016.01.31 16:01:11 - [121] - Quote Minkki wrote: I can buy tons of plexes, go to character bazaar, buy a titan pilot, go to sell forums, buy a titan and by Friday, I am flying titan after one week in EVE. Technically you would fly an Titan, but the main question would be "for how long?" Skilltrading gives you skills but it doesn't give you experience. I would bet, after said pilot got his arse handed within a few days ending with a juicy killmail, the resulting whine and tears thread in the forum would be epic!
Avvy Republic University Minmatar Republic 292	Posted - 2016.01.31 16:07:14 - [122] - Quote sero Hita wrote: Avvy wrote: sero Hita wrote: True, no limitations but what the market puts on the SP packets. The limitations will be their cost and the declining benefit. But there should also be a point where they no longer work. People talk about this like it is a pixel ship that should be balanced. It is not though. It is to increase the income of CCP, in a relatively harmless way imo. I am sure they have investors breathing down their necks after the last few years failed projects. They could have come up with something worse, or have closed the game for example. You also don't balance income streams negatively. I understand your point, but have to say that your expectation for them to put restrictions on something they have to live from, is naive. I also don't see why they should. From what I remember of the purpose of sp packets. 1) So that they can do away with the bazaar (outside of the game process) and replace it with sp packets (inside the game process), sp packets also having the advantage of the player being able to develop their own character instead of taking over from someone else. 2) The reason for diminishing returns is so that lower sp characters have a means to increase their sp so that there are more options open to them earlier in their game. As I understand it its not just about sp, its about allowing players to get a more developed character so that they can do what they want to instead of having to wait months for it.
xxxTRUSTxxx Galactic Rangers EVEolution. 432	Posted - 2016.01.31 16:13:33 - [123] - Quote Minkki wrote: I can buy tons of plexes, go to character bazaar, buy a titan pilot, go to sell forums, buy a titan and by Friday, I am flying titan after one week in EVE. yes and it's been that way for years. So how come we never see a thread called does buying a character on the bazzaar ruin the game? naysayers are just not consistent at all.
Avvy Republic University Minmatar Republic 292	Posted - 2016.01.31 16:21:17 - [124] - Quote sero Hita wrote: Avvy wrote: Yeah, except that with diminishing returns you don't know where someone will deem them not worth the cost. Diminishing returns with a cut-off point I think would be better. It might mean that with diminishing returns you won't get to the cut-off point, but it doesn't hurt to have one. It also doesn't help to have a cut-off. From CCPs point of view, there is no reason to implement this. I am certain if they did that the forums would be full of vets complaining about why they get no cookies? From a business point of view your suggestion makes no sense, and it seems like something few would care for. edit. they even increased the amount of SP vets get from the injectors. This was due to complaints from the community. If you could continue buying, you will get vets saying it's unfair. If you could buy sp up until its max. you would get vets leaving, as it would negate all the effort they've put into the game over the years to get to where they are now with their sp. Which is why I think there should be a cut off point, to protect those long term players high sp levels. Sp is a means to an end and you don't really need their kind of levels to be able to get a lot out of the game.
W33b3l The Scope Gallente Federation 27	Posted - 2016.01.31 16:21:20 - [125] - Quote I get it. I think it's just tactical reasons I don't care for it. You've always had to judge a players capabilites, this just makes it harder. I agree about experience meaning as much as SP. However SP does effect things more then people give it credit for. We've tested it by putting 2 players in the same ships with the same fits. The person with all maxed skills for that ship would always win assuming it was in battleships or larger even if we purposely reversed tactics. Battleships being the main ship most noobs will buy into skill wise starting out, I'm expecting some fights to end in some head scratching ways for people. It should at least be interesting. Although we had someone buy a character once with a bunch of really shiney ships and attack is once. We blew up a lot of his crap,and won the little war because we knew what we where doing. But that was fleet composistion. So as far as PVP is concerned, it Wil probably just cause some 1v1 drama more then anything. Though be it in ships that really shouldn't be in a 1v1 fight. So it can go both ways.
Trader20 Hedion University Amarr Empire 11	Posted - 2016.01.31 16:32:58 - [126] - Quote Sorry but I don't see sp=effort. Time yes and the only effort is paying the monthly sub and skill queue. So if I see I vet whining about all of his effort in getting leet sp numbers then this is just bs and hearsay which is why I have no problem in the idea of buying sp. Some are just looking for a reason to leave anyway...any reason. I think some vets are just afraid of change because they get comfortable with a system and think it's going to stay like that forever. Or some just want to have a monopoly on an internet space game which means everyone new is a threat. Just like evolution the ability to adapt will equal survival and Eve is all about survival.
Avvy Republic University Minmatar Republic 292	Posted - 2016.01.31 16:49:14 - [127] - Quote Trader20 wrote: Sorry but I don't see sp=effort. Time yes and the only effort is paying the monthly sub and skill queue. So if I see I vet whining about all of his effort in getting leet sp numbers then this is just bs and hearsay which is why I have no problem in the idea of buying sp. Some are just looking for a reason to leave anyway...any reason. I think some vets are just afraid of change because they get comfortable with a system and think it's going to stay like that forever. Or some just want to have a monopoly on an internet space game which means everyone new is a threat. Just like evolution the ability to adapt will equal survival and Eve is all about survival. There's no effort as such in waiting, just patience but then if you are the impatient type even waiting can take effort. But they have been loyal to CCP for a long time and I know some take pride in the amount of sp they have. I guess if you were number 9 in the sp tree doing it the traditional way and somebody passed you by just paying for it, you might be miffed too. Although some of the replys makes me wonder what game some people are playing. Is it so that you can have as much sp as possible even though it may not even be useful to you.
Altair Taurus 38	Posted - 2016.01.31 16:56:29 - [128] - Quote Look how fast you can become an SP mogul! - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BsTmfuQnqJ4
W33b3l The Scope Gallente Federation 27	Posted - 2016.01.31 18:09:59 - [129] - Quote Let me get this straight. A person that has been playing and grinding the same game for over 10 freaking years has no reason to be upset that a brand new player will be able to accomplish the same thing in 10 minuts with enough real world cash flow? In an already subscription based game, that by design is supposed to protect against such a thing? Of course some people will be sandy about that. Sure the new player won't have the contacts and time to fall back on, but if it's an alt..... I understand why some people are upset. Btw, it is p2w, just not in the form most of us are used to. Also a big part of this game is time based. How many new people are going to buy into a BS and realize they still have to do level ones and quit. Or go into lowsec with there "badass" ship, die emediatly, and quit. Idk, I don't think people have fleshed this out completely.
Trader20 Hedion University Amarr Empire 13	Posted - 2016.01.31 18:18:59 - [130] - Quote W33b3l wrote: Let me get this straight. A person that has been playing and grinding the same game for over 10 freaking years has no reason to be upset that a brand new player will be able to accomplish the same thing in 10 minuts with enough real world cash flow? In an already subscription based game, that by design is supposed to protect against such a thing? Of course some people will be sandy about that. Sure the new player won't have the contacts and time to fall back on, but if it's an alt..... I understand why some people are upset. Btw, it is p2w, just not in the form most of us are used to. Also a big part of this game is time based. How many new people are going to buy into a BS and realize they still have to do level ones and quit. Or go into lowsec with there "badass" ship, die emediatly, and quit. Idk, I don't think people have fleshed this out completely. Gaining skill points is grinding? That has to be the most passive and universally easy grind and that I've ever heard of in a game or in real life. Self entitlement much?
W33b3l The Scope Gallente Federation 27	Posted - 2016.01.31 18:34:25 - [131] - Quote Trader20 wrote: W33b3l wrote: Let me get this straight. A person that has been playing and grinding the same game for over 10 freaking years has no reason to be upset that a brand new player will be able to accomplish the same thing in 10 minuts with enough real world cash flow? In an already subscription based game, that by design is supposed to protect against such a thing? Of course some people will be sandy about that. Sure the new player won't have the contacts and time to fall back on, but if it's an alt..... I understand why some people are upset. Btw, it is p2w, just not in the form most of us are used to. Also a big part of this game is time based. How many new people are going to buy into a BS and realize they still have to do level ones and quit. Or go into lowsec with there "badass" ship, die emediatly, and quit. Idk, I don't think people have fleshed this out completely. Gaining skill points is grinding? That has to be the most passive and universally easy grind and that I've ever heard of in a game or in real life. Self entitlement much? You are completely missing the point. Skill sets take months and sometimes years depending and what you are doing. Pay to rearange skill points? Sure. Make it so you can't sell plex to buy them some how? Fine. The only way this would be honestly acceptable there way planned is if the game was F2P. You also didn't bother to retort my other points. I completely understand why some people are upset and I have my doubts it will work as CCP plans.
Trader20 Hedion University Amarr Empire 13	Posted - 2016.01.31 18:41:56 - [132] - Quote So buying skill points will be the ultimate way to grief bitter vets?...I'm all for buying skill points.
Mr Mieyli Hedion University Amarr Empire 176	Posted - 2016.01.31 18:44:34 - [133] - Quote Trader20 wrote: Sorry but I don't see sp=effort. Time yes and the only effort is paying the monthly sub and skill queue. So if I see I vet whining about all of his effort in getting leet sp numbers then this is just bs and hearsay which is why I have no problem in the idea of buying sp. Some are just looking for a reason to leave anyway...any reason. I think some vets are just afraid of change because they get comfortable with a system and think it's going to stay like that forever. Or some just want to have a monopoly on an internet space game which means everyone new is a threat. Just like evolution the ability to adapt will equal survival and Eve is all about survival. Gaining SP isn't hard, nobody has claimed it is. It does however take time like you said, time for you to build an attachment to your virtual pixel man, an attachment that gives him meaning. We aren't afraid of change but we have been around long enough to predict (guess?) the likely effects of a change. You say some vets are just looking for a reason to leave but for many eve has been slowly changing from "real" to "frigate arena pvp", this is just another step away from the EvE most of us like. EvE is a complex system with different types of players interacting with each other, that's one of the things that makes the game so difficult for CCP to balance based on player feedback. An attitude of "well your opinion doesn't matter because you're just a bitter vet" is not a very helpful one. Buying SP is a "pay2advance-faster" mechanic just the same way you can buy gems/gold in most iPhone games. EvE has always had the ability to buy ISK with real money but ISK is something that you can farm at whatever rate you can manage in game anyway. It was only even introduced in the first place to combat RMT, a sort of necessary evil since people are going to buy ISK anyway. People have not before had the possibility to buy SP as easily as they will soon have, the downsides of using the char bazaar are now gone. If you have the cash there's no reason not to beef up your guy with some bought SP. Anyone claiming "but its not pay2win" you are really being pedantic; an advantage of this kind has not been in the game before now. A good day for credit-card warriors but a bad day for everyone else. A case for more AoE in EvE
Trader20 Hedion University Amarr Empire 13	Posted - 2016.01.31 19:01:04 - [134] - Quote So you can't afford it so the feature is a bad idea. That's like CCP lowering the graphics because you can't run the game properly. (srry only could understand the last sentence of your reply)
W33b3l The Scope Gallente Federation 29	Posted - 2016.01.31 19:04:41 - [135] - Quote Mr Mieyli wrote: Trader20 wrote: Sorry but I don't see sp=effort. Time yes and the only effort is paying the monthly sub and skill queue. So if I see I vet whining about all of his effort in getting leet sp numbers then this is just bs and hearsay which is why I have no problem in the idea of buying sp. Some are just looking for a reason to leave anyway...any reason. I think some vets are just afraid of change because they get comfortable with a system and think it's going to stay like that forever. Or some just want to have a monopoly on an internet space game which means everyone new is a threat. Just like evolution the ability to adapt will equal survival and Eve is all about survival. Gaining SP isn't hard, nobody has claimed it is. It does however take time like you said, time for you to build an attachment to your virtual pixel man, an attachment that gives him meaning. We aren't afraid of change but we have been around long enough to predict (guess?) the likely effects of a change. You say some vets are just looking for a reason to leave but for many eve has been slowly changing from "real" to "frigate arena pvp", this is just another step away from the EvE most of us like. EvE is a complex system with different types of players interacting with each other, that's one of the things that makes the game so difficult for CCP to balance based on player feedback. An attitude of "well your opinion doesn't matter because you're just a bitter vet" is not a very helpful one. Buying SP is a "pay2advance-faster" mechanic just the same way you can buy gems/gold in most iPhone games. EvE has always had the ability to buy ISK with real money but ISK is something that you can farm at whatever rate you can manage in game anyway. It was only even introduced in the first place to combat RMT, a sort of necessary evil since people are going to buy ISK anyway. People have not before had the possibility to buy SP as easily as they will soon have, the downsides of using the char bazaar are now gone. If you have the cash there's no reason not to beef up your guy with some bought SP. Anyone claiming "but its not pay2win" you are really being pedantic; an advantage of this kind has not been in the game before now. A good day for credit-card warriors but a bad day for everyone else. Thank you. On a side note. It won't be long before a new player buys enough plex to buy an officer fit Mach and the skills to use it with full implants, flies out of highsec (or flags himself somehow), and does emediatly day one and the forums flood with tears because the 100+ dollars of his real world money just went up in internet explosion pixels. At least with not being able to buy skills, he would be playing long enough to know better most likely by the time he could fly it. Will it be funny and awesome for the person that killed him? My god yes, but it won't do much for new player retention.
aldhura Bartledannians Nite Owls 33	Posted - 2016.01.31 19:05:07 - [136] - Quote If I could have bought skills to fly a carrier or blops in my first month I can honestly say I would have got bored of the game very quickly and left. CCP has kept me at it only because I have had long term goals I had to train for. Not saying I'm quitting, as I still have goals which sadly I need to train for as there is not value for older players to buy skill packs. It is a very unbalanced mechanic. just means a little bit of love for the game dies in me every time something crazy (unbalanced) like this comes along, and well.. I spend more time and $$$ elsewhere. Bartledannians Corporation is recruiting Nite Owls Alliance is recruiting
Trader20 Hedion University Amarr Empire 13	Posted - 2016.01.31 19:10:12 - [137] - Quote New player with snakes and faction fit man this guy won eve, or just grab your corp mates for an impressive kill mail. At least that's what I would do. Capitalize on change people, don't whine.
W33b3l The Scope Gallente Federation 30	Posted - 2016.01.31 19:26:30 - [138] - Quote Trader20 wrote: New player with snakes and faction fit man this guy won eve, or just grab your corp mates for an impressive kill mail. At least that's what I would do. Capitalize on change people, don't whine. The title of this thread, wich you created is misleading. You asked if it would hurt the game. You have done nothing but argue for it being a good thing with nothing solid to back it up. No one is whining but you. You created a thread to do it. Not sure why though since it seems you will get what you want. We've told you the bad things about it. We are old enough to know how it will effect the game. The only thing I can think of is that you are a credit card warrior posting with an alt hoping to make a point in the forums because you can't get the feedback you want in game. You are not constructive anymore and I'm begining to agree with the original idea of locking this thread.
Mr Mieyli Hedion University Amarr Empire 177	Posted - 2016.01.31 19:31:06 - [139] - Quote Trader20 wrote: So you can't afford it so the feature is a bad idea. That's like CCP lowering the graphics because you can't run the game properly. (srry only could understand the last sentence of your reply) I'm honestly having a hard time believing that you are not trolling here. If you can't understand written english (assuming that's your language) then I don't think you have much hope of understanding EvE. A case for more AoE in EvE
Trader20 Hedion University Amarr Empire 16	Posted - 2016.01.31 19:34:33 - [140] - Quote Mr Mieyli wrote: Trader20 wrote: So you can't afford it so the feature is a bad idea. That's like CCP lowering the graphics because you can't run the game properly. (srry only could understand the last sentence of your reply) I'm honestly having a hard time believing that you are not trolling here. If you can't understand written english (assuming that's your language) then I don't think you have much hope of understanding EvE. Sorry native tongue is Klingon.
Trader20 Hedion University Amarr Empire 16	Posted - 2016.01.31 19:40:45 - [141] - Quote W33b3l wrote: Trader20 wrote: New player with snakes and faction fit man this guy won eve, or just grab your corp mates for an impressive kill mail. At least that's what I would do. Capitalize on change people, don't whine. The title of this thread, wich you created is misleading. You asked if it would hurt the game. You have done nothing but argue for it being a good thing with nothing solid to back it up. No one is whining but you. You created a thread to do it. Not sure why though since it seems you will get what you want. We've told you the bad things about it. We are old enough to know how it will effect the game. The only thing I can think of is that you are a credit card warrior posting with an alt hoping to make a point in the forums because you can't get the feedback you want in game. You are not constructive anymore and I'm begining to agree with the original idea of locking this thread. I wouldn't call it whining more like rubbing salt into a wound. Also the definition of whining is "complain in a feeble or petulant way"..... which is what those opposed to the idea are doing. Also I'm snowed in and the project at work atm is email tag heavy so their is much free time.
Teckos Pech The Executives Executive Outcomes 4534	Posted - 2016.01.31 19:51:06 - [142] - Quote sero Hita wrote: True, no limitations but what the market puts on the SP packets. I am okay with this though. If one is so inclined that they don't want to buy SP packets, I still think they can compete though. EVE has so many game play mechanisms that one can use to counter better skills. An example: I earn my ISK by supplying a small tradehub, that no one else wants to seed. I earn decent enough to pvp. That people can buy SP and get better trade skills than me will not change that. They will still not go through the hassle to seed a station in the middle of no where. In PVP if someone flies a better ship, with better skills I call in reinforcements and blop the sun out of him. Regardless if he is a veteran or just bought the exp. That is the beauty of EVE with some effort, there will always be a place in space where you can be king, even if others have higher SP. That is why I am not too worried. The problem with the argument, "If you don't like it don't participate," is that the SP market can have an effect beyond just the SP market. This should be obvious. Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence So Local Chat vanished, now what?
aldhura Bartledannians Nite Owls 34	Posted - 2016.01.31 19:51:10 - [143] - Quote Trader20 wrote: W33b3l wrote: Trader20 wrote: New player with snakes and faction fit man this guy won eve, or just grab your corp mates for an impressive kill mail. At least that's what I would do. Capitalize on change people, don't whine. The title of this thread, wich you created is misleading. You asked if it would hurt the game. You have done nothing but argue for it being a good thing with nothing solid to back it up. No one is whining but you. You created a thread to do it. Not sure why though since it seems you will get what you want. We've told you the bad things about it. We are old enough to know how it will effect the game. The only thing I can think of is that you are a credit card warrior posting with an alt hoping to make a point in the forums because you can't get the feedback you want in game. You are not constructive anymore and I'm begining to agree with the original idea of locking this thread. I wouldn't call it whining more like rubbing salt into a wound. Also the definition of whining is "complain in a feeble or petulant way"..... which is what those opposed to the idea are doing. Also I'm snowed in and the project at work atm is email tag heavy so their is much free time. Sharing an opinion isn't whining. Unless your native tongue is klingon Bartledannians Corporation is recruiting Nite Owls Alliance is recruiting
Bibosikus Aliastra 200	Posted - 2016.01.31 21:44:35 - [144] - Quote The vast majority of Vets (including me and most of my Eve-playing friends) think this Extractor/Injector system is refreshing and interesting but hardly a game-changer. We're all pretty much where we want to be, and the idea of trading skill points we don't use is years old. I for one am glad it's on the way, because skill points are a drill-down resource that CCP need to tap into to keep the Eve market on its toes (read: upbeat) Unless the post-Aurum market for Extractors goes stupidly low, I don't see any of the 80+m sp players bothering much. There's better isk to be made elsewhere. *Eagles may soar, but weasels don't get sucked into jet engines.*
sero Hita Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 124	Posted - 2016.01.31 22:02:38 - [145] - Quote Teckos Pech wrote: sero Hita wrote: True, no limitations but what the market puts on the SP packets. I am okay with this though. If one is so inclined that they don't want to buy SP packets, I still think they can compete though. EVE has so many game play mechanisms that one can use to counter better skills. An example: I earn my ISK by supplying a small tradehub, that no one else wants to seed. I earn decent enough to pvp. That people can buy SP and get better trade skills than me will not change that. They will still not go through the hassle to seed a station in the middle of no where. In PVP if someone flies a better ship, with better skills I call in reinforcements and blop the sun out of him. Regardless if he is a veteran or just bought the exp. That is the beauty of EVE with some effort, there will always be a place in space where you can be king, even if others have higher SP. That is why I am not too worried. The problem with the argument, "If you don't like it don't participate," is that the SP market can have an effect beyond just the SP market. This should be obvious. Teckos please, don't reply to my posts anymore. Last time you told me to learn to read, and claimed I had written the opposite of what I had. Now you answer something that does not directly relate to what i wrote. That is just annoying. I btw. never claimed it would not have effects beyond the SP market. I said the effects you can handle by other means "I'm all for pvp, don't get me wrong. I've ganked in Empire, blobed in low sec. Got T-shirts from every which-where.. But to be forced into a pvp confrontation that I didn't want is wrong ccp." RealFlisker
Teckos Pech The Executives Executive Outcomes 4538	Posted - 2016.01.31 23:13:16 - [146] - Quote sero Hita wrote: Teckos Pech wrote: sero Hita wrote: True, no limitations but what the market puts on the SP packets. I am okay with this though. If one is so inclined that they don't want to buy SP packets, I still think they can compete though. EVE has so many game play mechanisms that one can use to counter better skills. An example: I earn my ISK by supplying a small tradehub, that no one else wants to seed. I earn decent enough to pvp. That people can buy SP and get better trade skills than me will not change that. They will still not go through the hassle to seed a station in the middle of no where. In PVP if someone flies a better ship, with better skills I call in reinforcements and blop the sun out of him. Regardless if he is a veteran or just bought the exp. That is the beauty of EVE with some effort, there will always be a place in space where you can be king, even if others have higher SP. That is why I am not too worried. The problem with the argument, "If you don't like it don't participate," is that the SP market can have an effect beyond just the SP market. This should be obvious. Teckos please, don't reply to my posts anymore. Last time you told me to learn to read, and claimed I had written the opposite of what I had. Now you answer something that does not directly relate to what i wrote. That is just annoying. I btw. never claimed it would not have effects beyond the SP market. I said the effects you can handle by other means You mean the one where I let you have it for calling me a liar? Maybe you should HTFU and while at grow up too. There have been quite a few people claiming that the problems in Eve in terms of player retention has been a direct result of SP. Some argue starting SP is too low, some argue SP altogether. Two of the people arguing for removal of SP were Dror and Aerasia (spelling on that second one might be off). Now, a careful reading of my post would clearly indicate that the claims were not mine. I have never made any claims about how to get the number of players on line up. Therefore for you to show up and call me a liar and to prove claims I think are bogus to begin with is stupid and foolish. I called you on that and now you want to pout? Fine, whatever. As for the problem with SP, as I have pointed out lots of times the problems of changing a system or trying to design a new system, especially markets, is that the problems are not apparent until after the fact. So simply saying, "I can't see a problem therefore there is no problem" as we have seen from a number of people in this thread is foolish and demonstrates a unfortunate degree of hubris. Quote: The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design.--Friedrich August von Hayek, Nobel Prize Winner 1974 Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence So Local Chat vanished, now what?
Jenshae Chiroptera 2511	Posted - 2016.01.31 23:47:58 - [147] - Quote Will Buying Skill Points Ruin The Game? Short answer: To some extent. Everyone has equal access to the extractors and injectors. Not everyone has the same access to getting them. Real life cash, ISK and time. It will widen the gap between new players and veterans via alts. CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids I will be voting for Xenuria because...
Nat Silverguard Aideron Robotics 263	Posted - 2016.02.01 04:10:49 - [148] - Quote let's be realistic here people, how much do you think the price of an extractor will be? the SP packets' price? and then of course the injectors, how much do you think it will cost as well? between those 3 items together, i bet my brown balls the whole SP transfer process would cost minimum 2-3 PLEXes. 2-3 PLEXes for 500k SP, it's not even a half-month worth of training. im not saying nobody can dish out irl cash for 15-20 PLEXs in one go to be able to fly a officer/deadspace proteus (albeit with bare minimum, sucky fitting skills), but come on, it would be minimal and negligible and those people most probably will stay in hisec to run missions making them irrelevant. now for vets with lots of isk making alts, that's a non-issue already because we already have character bizarre. Just Add Water
Daniela Doran Ministry of War Amarr Empire 444	Posted - 2016.02.01 04:17:27 - [149] - Quote Mag's wrote: J'Poll wrote: Will Buying Skill Points Ruin The Game? Let me counter question: Has buying characters from the bazaar ruined the game? As in a sense, it's just the same thing, only you can now tailor make your character and pick your own name. I love how when someone says it's the same as the bazaar, they seems to always qualify it with 'in a sense' or 'almost', or 'nearly' or 'except that'. Another example. Stitch Kaneland wrote: The SP trading thing is no different than the character bazaar that has been around for years. Except instead of trading full characters, you can just buy/sell the SP. I almost won the lottery once. It's a waste of time trying to convince the delusional people who refuses to acknowledge that these two are totally different. Some people will always believe what they want to believe regardless if what the believe is actually true or not. Others are just flat out ignorant and really can't see the difference.
Nat Silverguard Aideron Robotics 263	Posted - 2016.02.01 04:25:54 - [150] - Quote Daniela Doran wrote: Mag's wrote: J'Poll wrote: Will Buying Skill Points Ruin The Game? Let me counter question: Has buying characters from the bazaar ruined the game? As in a sense, it's just the same thing, only you can now tailor make your character and pick your own name. I love how when someone says it's the same as the bazaar, they seems to always qualify it with 'in a sense' or 'almost', or 'nearly' or 'except that'. Another example. Stitch Kaneland wrote: The SP trading thing is no different than the character bazaar that has been around for years. Except instead of trading full characters, you can just buy/sell the SP. I almost won the lottery once. It's a waste of time trying to convince the delusional people who refuses to acknowledge that these two are totally different. Some people will always believe what they want to believe regardless if what the believe is actually true or not. Others are just flat out ignorant and really can't see the difference. well, it's a waste of time trying to shed some reason to you as well. if you want to quit over this, then quit, nobody is stopping you. good luck. o7 Just Add Water
Daniela Doran Ministry of War Amarr Empire 444	Posted - 2016.02.01 04:29:06 - [151] - Quote Jenshae Chiroptera wrote: Will Buying Skill Points Ruin The Game? Short answer: To some extent. Everyone has equal access to the extractors and injectors. Not everyone has the same access to getting them. Real life cash, ISK and time. It will widen the gap between new players and veterans via alts. It will indeed ruin the game just like cancer will kill a person over time. This SP trading will have that exact same effect on Eve and will gradually eat away at the life core of this game until it becomes nothing but an empty shell of a game over time (12-18 months). PVP'ers will mostly likely be the only ones left playing this game by that time, hunting down the last remaining 1-5k scrubs left scurrying about in Dead Eden.
Daniela Doran Ministry of War Amarr Empire 444	Posted - 2016.02.01 04:33:25 - [152] - Quote Nat Silverguard wrote: Daniela Doran wrote: Mag's wrote: J'Poll wrote: Will Buying Skill Points Ruin The Game? Let me counter question: Has buying characters from the bazaar ruined the game? As in a sense, it's just the same thing, only you can now tailor make your character and pick your own name. I love how when someone says it's the same as the bazaar, they seems to always qualify it with 'in a sense' or 'almost', or 'nearly' or 'except that'. Another example. Stitch Kaneland wrote: The SP trading thing is no different than the character bazaar that has been around for years. Except instead of trading full characters, you can just buy/sell the SP. I almost won the lottery once. It's a waste of time trying to convince the delusional people who refuses to acknowledge that these two are totally different. Some people will always believe what they want to believe regardless if what the believe is actually true or not. Others are just flat out ignorant and really can't see the difference. well, it's a waste of time trying to shed some reason to you as well. if you want to quit over this, then quit, nobody is stopping you. good luck. o7 That will happen naturally on it's own as my remaining game time ticks away because I won't be putting anymore of my money into a dead game.
Nat Silverguard Aideron Robotics 263	Posted - 2016.02.01 04:57:46 - [153] - Quote Daniela Doran wrote: That will happen naturally on it's own as my remaining game time ticks away because I won't be putting anymore of my money into a dead game. thank god... can i have some of your isk/stuff? Just Add Water
Alea Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic 192	Posted - 2016.02.01 04:59:08 - [154] - Quote SP trading will wee on Eve's parade but I doubt I'll quit over it, most of the people I encounter in the game are over the 80 mill SP mark anyway so if those players can fly a few more ships with injected SP so be it, they can die just as fast as they did before.. Or kill me as fast as they did before.. It's all relevant.. But in the end SP trading will be bad for Eve, how bad only time will tell, next may be free to play then comes blatant pay to win schemes, then I will quit. Fellow Eve players please take note: In case you haven't yet noticed HTFU is going to be replaced with P(ay)TFU, that is all..
Nat Silverguard Aideron Robotics 263	Posted - 2016.02.01 05:01:04 - [155] - Quote the only thing that would make me quit EvE is golden ammos (because that is a clear pay2win) and free2play. Just Add Water
Daniela Doran Ministry of War Amarr Empire 444	Posted - 2016.02.01 05:09:17 - [156] - Quote Trader20 wrote: New player with snakes and faction fit man this guy won eve, or just grab your corp mates for an impressive kill mail. At least that's what I would do. Capitalize on change people, don't whine. I'm starting to agree with Tiddle. If you keep trolling like this OP, I'll report this thread for redundancy!
Alavaria Fera GoonWaffe 6937	Posted - 2016.02.01 05:11:46 - [157] - Quote Nat Silverguard wrote: the only thing that would make me quit EvE is golden ammos (because that is a clear pay2win) and free2play. T3 ammo, so valuable you have to pay with days off your pilot's license to CONCORD to get it it quickly became clear that many of you were able to see the potential benefits and that youGÇÖre also ready for some big changes in EVE, especially when they might help bring in newer players http://eveboard.com/ranks
Trader20 Hedion University Amarr Empire 19	Posted - 2016.02.01 05:13:02 - [158] - Quote Daniela Doran wrote: Trader20 wrote: New player with snakes and faction fit man this guy won eve, or just grab your corp mates for an impressive kill mail. At least that's what I would do. Capitalize on change people, don't whine. I'm starting to agree with Tiddle. If you keep trolling like this OP, I'll report this thread for redundancy! Coming from the person who is calling everyone scrubs.....
Daniela Doran Ministry of War Amarr Empire 444	Posted - 2016.02.01 05:23:01 - [159] - Quote Trader20 wrote: Daniela Doran wrote: Trader20 wrote: New player with snakes and faction fit man this guy won eve, or just grab your corp mates for an impressive kill mail. At least that's what I would do. Capitalize on change people, don't whine. I'm starting to agree with Tiddle. If you keep trolling like this OP, I'll report this thread for redundancy! Coming from the person who is calling everyone scrubs..... I didn't say everyone. Just the ones who fancies the pay2win feature and who intend on abusing it for instant gratification. Also reported for Redundancy!
Daniela Doran Ministry of War Amarr Empire 444	Posted - 2016.02.01 05:23:59 - [160] - Quote Nat Silverguard wrote: Daniela Doran wrote: That will happen naturally on it's own as my remaining game time ticks away because I won't be putting anymore of my money into a dead game. thank god... can i have some of your isk/stuff? The only thing I'll leave behind in this game is my vomit, if you want it you can have it.
Trader20 Hedion University Amarr Empire 19	Posted - 2016.02.01 05:28:07 - [161] - Quote Well if this thread does get locked it has been entertaining at least. Also I don't think you can report someone for hurting your feelings I believe threads like this will easy both parties ease into the idea of change instead of ccp just throwing a change in the game that hasn't been debated. Edit Grammar: Typing on a phone
sero Hita Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 124	Posted - 2016.02.01 07:16:12 - [162] - Quote Teckos Pech wrote: Now, a careful reading of my post would clearly indicate that the claims were not mine. I have never made any claims about how to get the number of players on line up. Therefore for you to show up and call me a liar and to prove claims I think are bogus to begin with is stupid and foolish. I called you on that and now you want to pout? Fine, whatever. Except i did not! Dude, please stop with the HTFU. You misunderstood that post completely(and I did not have the energy to correct you at the time). I never claimed that you claimed the number would go up. I claimed you were claiming others meant it, without supporting it.(I see now, you where referring to the other thread) Imo. opinion you only made that claim so you later on could say "I told you there was no increase in subs, so the changes are bad lol". That is what I commented on, word for word!! go back and read the post i wrote. It is unlogical to estimate if the SP changes were a success based on if it will bring more people in (especially since CCP never claimed that, but some random people in the game. It should be evaluated based on the success criteria CCP put up). That was my point. The calling you a liar part was going overboard, I will give you that, bad choice of words. The word I should have used was of course manipulative. my apologies. You still misunderstood what I wrote though. So to sum up: I think you are just looking for arguments to say that the SP change was bad .My estimation was that we will see you on the forum in three months " lol, what a fail. people said SP packages would bring more people and it did not". That is what I got from you first post, and that was all I commented on. "I'm all for pvp, don't get me wrong. I've ganked in Empire, blobed in low sec. Got T-shirts from every which-where.. But to be forced into a pvp confrontation that I didn't want is wrong ccp." RealFlisker
Robert Caldera Caldera Trading and Investment 1094	Posted - 2016.02.01 12:11:43 - [163] - Quote I dont thing so. Because in order to inject SP, someone would have to sell SP. Every time this occurs, SP are removed from the game because you receive less than someone else exported, so its a self regulating process and will lead to stagnation of SP purchases with increasing cost of SP.
Ima Wreckyou The Conference Elite CODE. 2101	Posted - 2016.02.01 12:41:10 - [164] - Quote Just prepare your forum-foo for a ton of angry new players who think that they have to purchase extremely overpriced SP with $ to overcome the slow SP accumulation paywall while at the same time having to pay a subscription. the Code ALWAYS wins Elite PvPer, #74 in 2014
Robert Caldera Caldera Trading and Investment 1095	Posted - 2016.02.01 12:46:54 - [165] - Quote after a thought, I strongly believe that the price of 2500m SP will drop to the price of plex which will be lower bound for sp price, which could start rising again as people need to plex their sp farmer alts, assumed there are enough buyers.
Jenn aSide Ascendent. Test Alliance Please Ignore 13521	Posted - 2016.02.01 13:06:59 - [166] - Quote To the original question, no it won't kill the game. It is a step further down a bad road. As usual, it will not result in the good consequences CCP predicts (though some accidental benefits may occur), it will result in yet another lesson on the laws of unintended consequences.
Jenn aSide Ascendent. Test Alliance Please Ignore 13521	Posted - 2016.02.01 13:11:31 - [167] - Quote Captain Tardbar wrote: I relish the bitter vet tears. Long live the scrubs! The irony here is that people always say that, mainly because they don't understand how things work. SP trading benefits vets, it will eventually be shown to screw new players and 'scrubs'. You just celebrated a new income stream and new set of advantages for 'bitter vets'. Does your brilliance know no bounds?
Conar My Wormhole Hurts 29	Posted - 2016.02.01 13:16:33 - [168] - Quote Give anyone a mountain of skill points (or isk) and they will be bored within a few months. I think it is a very bad idea. Why CCP would even consider it is beyond me. Sad Panda.... Conar 07
Jenn aSide Ascendent. Test Alliance Please Ignore 13524	Posted - 2016.02.01 13:34:06 - [169] - Quote Conar wrote: Give anyone a mountain of skill points (or isk) and they will be bored within a few months. I think it is a very bad idea. Why CCP would even consider it is beyond me. Sad Panda.... Conar 07 They won't be bored in the beginning. They (the ones with real life cash that is) will come in, PLEX their way into a bunch of skill points (in a similar but more streamlined and less balanced way than they do with the char baazar now), jump into ships they know nothing about, take PVP fights or do PVE content they know nothing about, blow up a lot because of their ignorance and quit even sooner than they might have otherwise.
Nat Silverguard Aideron Robotics 263	Posted - 2016.02.01 13:38:25 - [170] - Quote Conar wrote: Give anyone a mountain of skill points (or isk) and they will be bored within a few months. I think it is a very bad idea. Why CCP would even consider it is beyond me. Sad Panda.... Conar 07 mountain of SPs? i don't think an SP extractor, SP injector and the SP packets will be cheap that anybody can immediately fly T3 cruisers on day 1. i would personally sell SP packets (500k SP) for atleast a billion isk + the cost of the SP extractor, wherein some are speculating to be a PLEX each, so it would be roughly around 2B isk already. then the buyer, after buying the SP packets needs an SP injector, which i hope would be a PLEX/pc as well. so the whole process, by my speculation, would cost atleast 3B isk just to acquire 500k SPs. Just Add Water
King Aires Chicks on Speed Mordus Angels 173	Posted - 2016.02.01 13:39:00 - [171] - Quote Jenn aSide wrote: To the original question, no it won't kill the game. It is a step further down a bad road. As usual, it will not result in the good consequences CCP predicts (though some accidental benefits may occur), it will result in yet another lesson on the laws of unintended consequences. Quoting this because of the ramifications to the quantum glue that holds the universe together that I am on the exact same page as Jenn on this issue. +1
Jenn aSide Ascendent. Test Alliance Please Ignore 13524	Posted - 2016.02.01 13:43:03 - [172] - Quote I revived a notification of a King Aires like. This must mean I was mistaken, Skill Point Trading is awesome and if you do it you will get both money and women in real life. j/k it's still awful.
King Aires Chicks on Speed Mordus Angels 173	Posted - 2016.02.01 13:45:23 - [173] - Quote Jenn aSide wrote: I revived a notification of a King Aires like. This must mean I was mistaken, Skill Point Trading is awesome and if you do it you will get both money and women in real life. j/k it's still awful. The disturbance in the force was as if 100 CCP Devs cried out, and were suddenly silenced or something like that.
Lan Wang Knights of the Posing Meat FETID 2364	Posted - 2016.02.01 13:52:36 - [174] - Quote Jenn aSide wrote: Conar wrote: Give anyone a mountain of skill points (or isk) and they will be bored within a few months. I think it is a very bad idea. Why CCP would even consider it is beyond me. Sad Panda.... Conar 07 They won't be bored in the beginning. They (the ones with real life cash that is) will come in, PLEX their way into a bunch of skill points (in a similar but more streamlined and less balanced way than they do with the char baazar now), jump into ships they know nothing about, take PVP fights or do PVE content they know nothing about, blow up a lot because of their ignorance and quit even sooner than they might have otherwise. ive said this before but buying chars dont always end up like this, i had more fun in the game when i bought my char than i did when i had just started, lost alot of ships but it was fun and i still continue to have fun "Yeah. Put your tears in a jet can and leave them on your undock for your assailants to pick up. If they're camping you, I'm sure they're going to get thirsty." - Darth Squeemus ............................... Angel Cartel \|\| Serpentis
ISD Fractal isd community communications liaisons 878	Posted - 2016.02.01 15:52:26 - [175] - Quote Quote: 17. Redundant and re-posted threads will be locked. As a courtesy to other forum users, please search to see if there is a thread already open on the topic you wish to discuss. If so, please place your comments there instead. Multiple threads on the same subject clutter up the forums needlessly, causing good feedback and ideas to be lost. Please keep discussions regarding a topic to a single thread. Seeing as this thread largely is based on feedback for the new skill point trading system coming in February, please place all of your feedback in the appropriate thread. ISD Fractal Lieutenant Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department

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