What are the cost of them in jita now? I saw the injectors go for 625M as the cheapest before prices were pushed up to 700ish.

Even if people set up SP farming alts the moment it was confirmed, we're still months away from that source of SP coming online and entering the market.

There are already thousand of Alts over 5.5 mil SP, which can be used for this right now.

A common response to Skill Injector price speculation is: The price won't get too high, because people will set up farms of SP producing alts which will stabilize the cost of SP.

This is true, but what is also true is that you cannot farm SP from a character with less than 5.5m skillpoints. So there is only so much 'spare SP' available at any given moment, however demand for such SP is almost without limit. Even if people set up SP farming alts the moment it was confirmed, we're still months away from that source of SP coming online and entering the market.

So, witness the market for injectors today. Lots of people logging in to make a quick profit on unwanted mining SP, etc. Lot's of injectors on the market. A balance between supply and demand.

How long can this last, even in the short term? These market conditions are exceptional and temporary. In the coming weeks and months, before significant additional SP comes through from SP farming alts, we're going to be in a period where demand will almost certainly outstrip supply. What price instant gratification?

I predict that after the first few volatile days of people dumping unwanted SP, we're about to enter an almighty price bubble as supply rapidly contracts while demand remains undiminished.

tl;dr - buy skill injectors today/tomorrow, or wait 3+ months, because we're about to enter a massive price bubble as demand outstrips new supply due to alts requiring 5.5m SP to farm

Demand will decline somewhat.

EVE has a fair number of trillionaires. Some percentage of these people are undoubtedly looking to 'perfect' their main character and willing to spend 20b, 100b or even a quarter trillion to do so.

This is a once-off demand spike too.

we didnt get rich throwing money down the toilet for useless SP

Demand will decline somewhat.

EVE has a fair number of trillionaires. Some percentage of these people are undoubtedly looking to 'perfect' their main character and willing to spend 20b, 100b or even a quarter trillion to do so.

This is a once-off demand spike too.

Whould you pledge 20b of yours on that?

i really wonder how the prices would look like right now had ccp not intervened massively in the plex market yesterday.

Why is demand without limit?

Is the demand for Ferrari's without limit? How about private jets? What about a house in Pebble Beach? Why is demand not without limit? Oh yeah...prices. Prices influence both demand and supply.

Could there be a price bubble? Maybe, but I'm a bit skeptical, but here is how it would work. If the initial price is too low, then what could happen is people buy them up put the price on an upward trend. People note this trend and jump on the band wagon. Soon you have a self-sustaining trend....until it isn't and the price collapses.

It's a lot easier to make ISK in EVE if you are motivated to do so than in real life, so the ferrari comparison doesn't work. Grinding a wormhole for half a day to earn an extra few billion is well within the capacity of most players.

But I do take your point.

For me, it's like this:

Day 01: Demand Level: 100 // Supply Level: 100
Day 07: Demand Level: 90 // Supply Level: 70
Day 14: Demand Level: 80 // Supply Level: 50
Day 28: Demand Level: 75 // Supply Level: 30
Day 56: Demand Level: 70 // Supply Level: 20

After this period I expect skill farming alts to start extracting in sufficient numbers to meet the demand.

My feeling is that this temporary imbalance between supply and demand has the potential to generate a huge bubble, because no matter how high prices get, you cannot extract SP that isn't there to meet the demand. People become emotionally attached to their characters and won't extract SP they don't want to. This market is not going to be driven by rational market players, but by impatience and emotion. Just like Dutch tulips all that time ago.

Based on what?

there were 11k plex traded yesterday in late EU. that's 3.5 times the normal amount. there must have been something going on.

the supply is WAAAAAAY above the demand. i expect month's of underpriced SP, before it runs out and even's out with farms, which people have ready long before this was introduced

All want skills, but its more efficient to train them in time with plex. Injectors due to COST and HUGE diminushing returns, are very bad cost/effect ratio.

but also many have billions of SP, in old alts, old accounts. Characters bought from the bazzaar. The amount of SP at this moment is HUGE. But the demand not so much.

Many wanted those illusive comand ships. Or maybe that long marauder skill. But once you get those sought by skills. It's not convenient diminushing returns are quite bad. So the injectors will be used ocassionaly, by new players, or maybe for alts and so on. And i expect it only will scratch the surface of the pool.

As for farms, many have alts training already with perfect 2700 SP, with perfect 1year plans. But they arent profitable yet, and i think the margin will be very slim on those.

Something that seems to be being missed is that active, logged in players will want skills. Those who don't want them tend to either be market speculators or those who simply don't play.

The demand is driven by active players, not forum warriors, or inactive characters with loads of SP that literally will not even log in because they are unsubbed and lost interest in the game. You're underestimating I believe the demand from those who are impatient. Time will show us who is right on this.

A common response to Skill Injector price speculation is: The price won't get too high, because people will set up farms of SP producing alts which will stabilize the cost of SP.

This is true, but what is also true is that you cannot farm SP from a character with less than 5.5m skillpoints. So there is only so much 'spare SP' available at any given moment, however demand for such SP is almost without limit. Even if people set up SP farming alts the moment it was confirmed, we're still months away from that source of SP coming online and entering the market.

So, witness the market for injectors today. Lots of people logging in to make a quick profit on unwanted mining SP, etc. Lot's of injectors on the market. A balance between supply and demand.

How long can this last, even in the short term? These market conditions are exceptional and temporary. In the coming weeks and months, before significant additional SP comes through from SP farming alts, we're going to be in a period where demand will almost certainly outstrip supply. What price instant gratification?

I predict that after the first few volatile days of people dumping unwanted SP, we're about to enter an almighty price bubble as supply rapidly contracts while demand remains undiminished.

tl;dr - buy skill injectors today/tomorrow, or wait 3+ months, because we're about to enter a massive price bubble as demand outstrips new supply due to alts requiring 5.5m SP to farm

Character farms. Well, at a first glance - how do you even make those profitable, when you cannot extract below 5mil points and you have to plex these accounts (2 months of which are pretty much wasted, it's gonna be hard to sell a 5 mill sp char proftably).

So I believe that despite all the talk, very small percentage of people will do it, although a few may try to make this a big scale operation.

As for skill extractors they have already seemed to have settled near the price you estimated in that other thread I noted. I don't think we'll see much action there. We might see some in the injector market though.

Sorry for the long rambling post.

Something that seems to be being missed is that active, logged in players will want skills. Those who don't want them tend to either be market speculators or those who simply don't play.

The demand is driven by active players, not forum warriors, or inactive characters with loads of SP that literally will not even log in because they are unsubbed and lost interest in the game. You're underestimating I believe the demand from those who are impatient. Time will show us who is right on this.

Further interesting market developments.

Looking at the number of buy/sell orders, and price trends, there appears to be an over-supply of skill extractors while demand for injectors remains balanced.

Skill Extractors
Units for Sale: 6,093
Units on Buy Orders: 1,804

Skill Injectors
Units for Sale: 2,304
Units on Buy Orders: 2,353

The price of the Extractors is also on a significant downward curve, while prices for Injectors are steady. This may be due to the market being flooded with extractors but the amount of spare/unwanted SP available for extraction is, of course, declining as it is extracted in bulk.

I hate such morons like you, who is putting his nose in all char auctions and spoiling the whole trade. Get the **** out useless idiot ! No one asked your opinion !

Greetings, many of the sellers have been in touch thanking me for bringing the true value of their characters to their attention. I shall continue doing so.

All the best x

Damn Cruciflex did somebody come buy and urinate in your cheerios this morning.

Dear Mr Cruciflex, I fear you are blaming the wrong person.

I am not an re-seller.

Please blame CCP because it is their introduction of Skill Injectors which has led to this price increase. It's nothing to do with me, however I see nothing wrong with helping players fairly value their characters in light of this new mechanic.

Yeah, I repeat. because of such morons like Dr Mibbles, normal players who wants to buy a toon for playing and not for SP trading now have to overpay the cost of such toon just because this shitlord posted a stupid message in each auction that the toon worth much more.... doh.

If you are not a re-seller who the **** asked you to post in each auction ?????!!!!!!!! How dare you put your dirty nose not in your business. Are you a buyer? No! Are you a seller ? No! So what the ******* hell you are doing there? One answer, you are a f***g trololo shitlord. The END.

Burn in hell.

Why is it his fault?

Are you routinely in the habit of killing the messengers? If so, I hope I'll never be taking you any messages.

Are you really that stupid that you don't understand? No comments anymore...

The re-sellers bump up the price, not me. Have you considered using skill injectors instead of buying whole new characters?

The new prices are here to stay, I'm afraid. Best to work with it rather than rage against it.

Oh I see, he went into and auction you were bidding in and pointed out that the extractable SP is worth more than your bid. That is what has you so butthurt...he is sharing information.

Well more information usually makes for a better functioning market....

The re-sellers bump up the price, not me. Have you considered using skill injectors instead of buying whole new characters?

The new prices are here to stay, I'm afraid. Best to work with it rather than rage against it.

have a rant about it crucifail lmfao.

please continue posting butthurt comments here

CCP will bring back tear extractors - 8k aurum each, this will raise the price of tears to 2 bowls of rice & a kick in the ass.

so stop crying fgt - im losing isk

Another NPC wanker, wasting his life 24/7 in a game.

He's obviously trying to cash in on underpriced characters. The one's he is bidding on are so diverse that they make no sense in a portfolio.

Kind of sad to see so many vintage characters being completely gutted like this, thankfully Sala is spared the evils of this brain-drain trade because I'd sooner biomass her than let these jackals shred a decade old toon to make a few billion.

Oh god this thread is hilarious now.

Cruciflex - if it wasn't your friend buying and stripping these characters it would be someone else.

I do think there is overproduction of skill injectors at the moment and they will fall hard in price - well below the prices the fundamentals indicate would be a stable long-term price.

havent logged in for a few weeks, mind telling the total volume / daily volume per day figures?

Basically, the market was working as intended and some player were butthurt that other players were posting and trying to accelrate such a process.

i missed all the drama :(

I thought this forum was for discussing the market?

I can understand his frustration, however we all have our positions on the market and we're all inclined to do what is required to help our positions attain a healthy return.

For many of us, 'playing the market' isn't just about buying and selling, but also about information and informing, influencing feelings and opinions. A side benefit is that many of the sellers are grateful for being informed of the market value of their character, so warm feelings all round (SP re-sellers aside).

Market Update:

The over-supply of extractors continues. Demand for injectors remains balanced and appears to be increasing, buy orders and average prices have increased over the last 12 hours.

Skill Extractors
Units for Sale: 6,257 (+4%)
Units on Buy Orders: 1,557 (-20%)
Sell price: 293m (-4%)

Skill Injectors
Units for Sale: 2,648 (+2%)
Units on Buy Orders: 4,139 (+89%)
Sell price: 641m (+2%)

Yes! Let us return to normality.

Skill Extractor prices have hit a new, record low in Jita as supply continues to outstrip demand
Currently they have dipped to 289m per extractor
This is however matched by a decline in PLEX values, from 1.280bn yesterday to 1.238bn today

Skill Injector prices continue to hold, climbing slightly as supply and demand remain approximately in balance.

Calling the turn in the market today. Buy orders of Skill Injectors (5,700) now hugely outweighing sell orders (1,300).

Sharp contraction in Skill Injector supply and rapidly rising prices - up to 670m in Amarr and 650m in Jita, with little new stock coming on the market to settle prices back down. People are playing the 0.01isk game, but there are no substantial supply buffers to prevent prices escalating quickly.

It will only take a few more days of this for prices to escalate beyond people's expectations.

Of course there could be a new supply shock if people have been hoarding waiting for certain 'sell points' (700m, 750m, etc). Let's see what happens. The fun starts here. I wouldn't be surprised if injectors were over 800m by the end of the week.

If you are a >80m skillpoint character , which dont need any additional skillpoints, did the skllpoint trading change made this a freetoplay game for them ? (farming skillpoints then selling this skillpoints to buy plex to buy gametime) And if so, how much would this cost ccp in subscription fees ? And how long before ccp intervenes to remove this situation ?

Any ideas on injectors price forecast? Have some hundreds rotting in my hangar. Selling? Keeping?

Demand will decline somewhat.

EVE has a fair number of trillionaires. Some percentage of these people are undoubtedly looking to 'perfect' their main character and willing to spend 20b, 100b or even a quarter trillion to do so.

This is a once-off demand spike too.

People using the word "rational" to define conformity to their thinking are simply arrogant.

"Rational" is a characteristic of humans that cannot be defined in a normative way, but only in a descriptive way.

price is 1.8 trillion to max out.