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How should we 'fix' ECM?

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Hamatitio Aperture Harmonics K162 35	Posted - 2011.12.15 20:30:00 - [1] - Quote Well it seems with the hybrid buff, the playerbase has moved onto the chance based mechanic of target jamming ECM. This topic is a discussion as to what the players would feel the best solution would be. I'll update this post periodically with the various ideas that are put forth. I'll start us off with one: +10-15% (this increases time) to the cycle time of all highslot modules. Dedicated ECM ships would be able to boost this amount upwards of perhaps 30-40%. This percent boost would always apply, and be stacking penalized as the other forms of ECM. This would also make EC-xxx drones not ridiculously imbalanced in 1 v 1 fights. It would hinder logistics, neut ships, and lower incoming DPS, without being chance based, and ensure that a dedicated ECM ship is still viable to bring to a fight.
General Paul Atomic Heroes The G0dfathers 0	Posted - 2011.12.15 20:40:00 - [2] - Quote I don't get what highslots have to do with ecm.. and why dedicated ecm would boost this? Really.. wut?
Hamatitio Aperture Harmonics K162 35	Posted - 2011.12.15 20:45:00 - [3] - Quote General Paul wrote: I don't get what highslots have to do with ecm.. and why dedicated ecm would boost this? Really.. wut? You dont understand that a ECM module would change from a chance based removal of all targets, to a blanket DPS/Logistics/Neuting whatever highslot module reduction in effectivenes?
General Paul Atomic Heroes The G0dfathers 0	Posted - 2011.12.15 20:52:00 - [4] - Quote But in order to balance ecm you would severely hamper logistics, dps, alpha, salvaging (lol) And what use does a highslot bonus give to dedicated ecm ships?> I'm sorry maybe this is over my head. You seem to be changing everything but ecm
General Paul Atomic Heroes The G0dfathers 0	Posted - 2011.12.15 21:00:00 - [5] - Quote Unless your suggesting that ecm should 'dampen' highslots..? In which case this would surely be better used as a fix to sensor dampeners.. Sorry I think I figured out what you were suggesting.
Hamatitio Aperture Harmonics K162 35	Posted - 2011.12.15 21:10:00 - [6] - Quote General Paul wrote: Unless your suggesting that ecm should 'dampen' highslots..? In which case this would surely be better used as a fix to sensor dampeners.. Sorry I think I figured out what you were suggesting. You got it. Except then, if you say this should be sensor damps, then what fix would you suggest for ECM? Remove it entirely?
General Paul Atomic Heroes The G0dfathers 0	Posted - 2011.12.15 21:12:00 - [7] - Quote ECM seems fine to me, ecm drones are widely suggested to be overpowered. I see plenty of falcon lossmails on the killboard though.
Hamatitio Aperture Harmonics K162 35	Posted - 2011.12.15 21:17:00 - [8] - Quote General Paul wrote: ECM seems fine to me, ecm drones are widely suggested to be overpowered. I see plenty of falcon lossmails on the killboard though. Its not a matter of them being solo pwn mobiles, its a matter that chance based mechanics are garbage.
General Paul Atomic Heroes The G0dfathers 0	Posted - 2011.12.15 21:28:00 - [9] - Quote Thats very subjective.
Zachis TBC 7	Posted - 2011.12.15 21:30:00 - [10] - Quote Interesting idea! It fits within the racial EWAR design for Caldari as well, namely to reduce incoming DPS. But, in a way that doesn't completely cripple the target ship. Obviously, the percentages would need to be worked out, but a very clever solution. Of course, a lot of folks will dislike the fact that it removes a GTFO tool from fights if implemented this way. But, it gives room for balancing and tweaking much more than the current randomness does.
Mumtaz Khan Nagrom Security Syndicate Flatline. 14	Posted - 2011.12.15 21:47:00 - [11] - Quote Working as intended etc. etc. Why do you retards keep insisting on fixing things that aren't broken? Just accept the fact that you got owned by someone who spends more time learning to play than complaining about ****. Oh, you're not butthurt? Then quit bitching about things you don't know about.
Takeshi Yamato eXceed Inc. No Holes Barred 43	Posted - 2011.12.15 21:51:00 - [12] - Quote Hamatitio wrote: Well it seems with the hybrid buff, the playerbase has moved onto the chance based mechanic of target jamming ECM. This topic is a discussion as to what the players would feel the best solution would be. I'll update this post periodically with the various ideas that are put forth. +10-15% (this increases time) to the cycle time of all highslot modules. Dedicated ECM ships would be able to boost this amount upwards of perhaps 30-40%. This percent boost would always apply, and be stacking penalized as the other forms of ECM. This would also make EC-xxx drones not ridiculously imbalanced in 1 v 1 fights. Your idea is pretty good, but I would make it reduced damage/effect. Otherwise it doesn't protect against alpha strikes and guess who is going to be primary The foundation for this tech is in game already, see Incursion system penalties. Reasons why this idea is good: - Not chance based - Makes ECM subject to stacking penalties like everything else - Which in turn allows CCP to finally balance ECM drones against the other EWAR drones - Doesn't make the victim feel like he can't do anything - ECM no longer is a "get out of jail card". It would also boost active tanking somewhat (assuming that ECM drones + strong active tank becomes viable for some stuff, perhaps even midslot ECM depending on how strong it is for unbonused ships), which is probably a good thing.
Muad 'dib The Imperial Fedaykin 18	Posted - 2011.12.15 22:00:00 - [13] - Quote seen this come up every few months. My latest veiws are mostly the same. The effect is too strong for too long and does not scale or stack any penelties, a jam from a griffin is as good from a widow as long as the cycle works - welcome to 20 seconds of being 100% useless. ECM imo should jam properly like now for 10 seconds and then 10 seconds cool down, or a 5 sec jam and 5 second damp effect etc etc. 20 seconds full on no targetting WAY to strong and always has been, its the fun sucking vampire in any fights ESP small gang.
Duchess Starbuckington Starbuckington Manor 52	Posted - 2011.12.15 22:04:00 - [14] - Quote Diminishing returns on jam cycle duration seems like a pretty reasonable nerf.
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops 2071	Posted - 2011.12.15 22:06:00 - [15] - Quote I've always liked two rather different solutions: One is to remove the jamming time GÇö make it work like an ECM burst that doesn't affect your ability to lock targets; it just kills all your current target locks (and you're free to relock immediately). The other is that ECM reduces the number of available target locks GÇö this one is mechanically trickier because you have to decide how many lost targets a given jamming strength corresponds to and how to make the bonuses work without making the whole thing silly. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥ If not, contact Miss DSA to shed your wardecs.
1-Up Mushroom Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 326	Posted - 2011.12.15 22:07:00 - [16] - Quote Mumtaz Khan wrote: Working as intended etc. etc. Why do you retards keep insisting on fixing things that aren't broken? Just accept the fact that you got owned by someone who spends more time learning to play than complaining about ****. Oh, you're not butthurt? Then quit bitching about things you don't know about. umadbro? 5 Senses In A Person... 4 Seasons In A Year... 3 Colors In A Stoplight... 2 Poles On The Earth... ONLY 1-UP MUSHROOM!!!-á If You Like My Sig, Like Me!
Mortuus Divine Power. Cascade Imminent 0	Posted - 2011.12.15 22:08:00 - [17] - Quote ECM has killed small gang, first one to bring it usually wins. However, maybe the answer is a blanket increase in ship signal strength and a buff to ECCM modules. Then reduce the ECM cycle to 10 so a lucky jam doesn't mean auto-death.
Mumtaz Khan Nagrom Security Syndicate Flatline. 14	Posted - 2011.12.15 22:09:00 - [18] - Quote 1-Up Mushroom wrote: Mumtaz Khan wrote: Working as intended etc. etc. Why do you retards keep insisting on fixing things that aren't broken? Just accept the fact that you got owned by someone who spends more time learning to play than complaining about ****. Oh, you're not butthurt? Then quit bitching about things you don't know about. umadbro? troll harder
stoicfaux 416	Posted - 2011.12.15 22:31:00 - [19] - Quote 1. Reverse Target Painter. If you're ECM'd, your target's sig size is reduced, which reduces the effectiveness of your guns and missiles. However, you're still able to fight, and smaller guns can still hit big targets. 2. Make Scan Resolution (lock time) a factor in weapon accuracy. ECM would make your scan resolution worse, thus reducing the damage you do and makes lock times longer. tl;dr - Turn ECM into a damage debuff, instead of the current 'stun' mechanic it is today. You can tell me what is and isn't true when you pry the tinfoil from my cold, lifeless head.
Nephilius Repo. 66	Posted - 2011.12.15 22:40:00 - [20] - Quote Mumtaz Khan wrote: Working as intended etc. etc. Why do you retards keep insisting on fixing things that aren't broken? Just accept the fact that you got owned by someone who spends more time learning to play than complaining about ****. Oh, you're not butthurt? Then quit bitching about things you don't know about. I'm with this guy, ECM serves a purpose, it has a role and trying to nerf or change it will cause more problems than it will fix. You can't shield tank effectively with it, so if you miss a cycle you are probably going to explode into space pixie dust. If ECM really is that powerful, why isn't everyone using it? Hell, I have the skills trained up and I don't even use it. If you bring down a giant, you're a hero. If you kill something weak-even if it has to die-then you will endure contempt.
Ayeshah Volfield Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 2	Posted - 2011.12.15 22:42:00 - [21] - Quote Remove 20s stun effect, make it just break current locks on successful RNG.
Griznatch Xicron Syndicate 31	Posted - 2011.12.15 23:04:00 - [22] - Quote Sensor damps and tracking disruptors already do what some of you are suggesting ecm should be changed to (except againt missile boats). Ecm isnt the magic win button everyone claims it is. Yes having a falcon in your 5 man gang is a force multiplier, but so is logi. If you dont bring a gun to a gun fight, expect to lose.
Vachir Khan TriSeq Defence Group 107	Posted - 2011.12.15 23:08:00 - [23] - Quote Hamatitio wrote: Well it seems with the hybrid buff, the playerbase has moved onto the chance based mechanic of target jamming ECM. No, not at all. People have been whining about ECM since forever, nothing changed. Excellence is not a skill, it's an attitude.
Muad 'dib The Imperial Fedaykin 18	Posted - 2011.12.15 23:29:00 - [24] - Quote Griznatch wrote: Sensor damps and tracking disruptors already do what some of you are suggesting ecm should be changed to (except againt missile boats). Ecm isnt the magic win button everyone claims it is. Yes having a falcon in your 5 man gang is a force multiplier, but so is logi. If you dont bring a gun to a gun fight, expect to lose. How much more fun is a 6v5+1 falcon than a 6v5+1 scimmy? Do not pretend just because its a force multiplyer its the same as a logi.
Torin Corax Zebra Corp BricK sQuAD. 5	Posted - 2011.12.15 23:54:00 - [25] - Quote Don't have a major issue with dedicated ECM ships any more, but the drones seem a little out of wack especially when compared to other E-war drones. Personally I feel all the E-war drones need a good re-work to balance them out, or just scrap all of them and make E-war a module-only option.
DarkAegix Acetech Systems 579	Posted - 2011.12.16 00:04:00 - [26] - Quote Let sensor strength be a kind of 'hitpoints' for the ship. So, a ship has 20 sensor strength, and is facing off against a ship with 5 ECM power. The first 20 second cycle, the ECM victim has received 5 ECM points. No jam. After 40 seconds, the ECM victim has received 10 ECM points. No jam. After 60 seconds, the ECM victim has received 15 ECM points. No jam. After 80 seconds, the ECM victim has received 20 ECM points. It's jammed. Over this next 20 second period, 50% of the sensor strength 'heals'. After 100 seconds, the ECM victim has 15 ECM points. No jam. After 120 seconds, the ECM victim has 20 ECM points. Jammed. After 140 seconds, the ECM victim has 15 ECM points. No jam. Etc. Under the current system, there would be a 25% chance to jam every 20 seconds. I hate luck in games. Statistically, you will notice that the first 80 seconds are the same as current ECM. ECM needs many changes, but the above is a somewhat quick fix.
Jenna Whitestar United Mining And Distribution 1	Posted - 2011.12.16 00:13:00 - [27] - Quote Nephilius wrote: If ECM really is that powerful, why isn't everyone using it? Hell, I have the skills trained up and I don't even use it. Um, who doesn't have a falcon alt these days? Compare that number to the number of people who have an alt specifically for damping, painting, or tracking disrupting and you'll have your answer
Sam Marquez Freelance Excavation and Resistance United Outworlders 2	Posted - 2011.12.16 02:20:00 - [28] - Quote Here's my suggestion: have it break target locks and increase scan rez by a fixed amount (increased with bonuses of course) on the affected ship. Also, give it 100% chance to do so. ECM drones then would simply break target locks, and have a longer cycle than ship ECM. ECCM would prevent the lock-breaking portion of ECM, but would only reduce the scan rez penalty, so ECM still retains some usefulness. Thus it remains a fairly effective tool against ships of all sizes, without rendering the target completely helpless.
Archare SKEET ELITE Sk33t Fl33t 25	Posted - 2011.12.16 03:01:00 - [29] - Quote Ewar drones definitely could all use an overhaul in their design. As far as ecm boats themselves... mebbe reduce the jamming/lockout timer but keep module cycle time the same? Or make the time you're locked out based upon your chance to be jammed as well?
Dracko Malus Starfrackers Inc Quantum Forge 8	Posted - 2011.12.16 06:21:00 - [30] - Quote Muad 'dib wrote: ECM imo should jam properly like now for 10 seconds and then 10 seconds cool down, or a 5 sec jam and 5 second damp effect etc etc. But then they'd have to change the paper thin tank on the falcon to something a lot more substantial to bridge the cooldown. I fly Falcon and Pilgrim, and simply prefer the Pilgrim due to not having to be affected by the diceroll of success. Granted.. with 6 jammers on the Falcon they'll hardly ever get a chance to target.. but my DPS is also so abysmal, that I always need a DPS wingman to actually "get stuff done" I might not be flying the best fit falcon... skipping scram/web etc and leaving those to my buddies.. but if you add a "cooldown" you'll simply rip the "solo capabilities" out of ECM ships. Also note I fly WH's so have to scrape another hislot...

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