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SFShootme
The Carebear Stare
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Posted - 2007.02.06 11:42:00 -
[1]
Allright, this is not going to be some whiney tread, I am merely trying to get up a discussion and try to get the community's thoughts on this.
My toughts:
As we all know the T2 torpedoes got hitted with the nerve bat pretty badly. Where they where good in the previous versions of eve they are (according to my knowledge) nerved to uselessness. My t2 rage torps deal just the same amount of damage as my normall torps on a battleship. The same goes for the Jav torps, it is better to use regulair t1 torpedoes on a battlecruiser than any sort of t2 torp, the javs will lack damage and the rages won't have any damage potential on a battlecruiser. I would say, pump up the damage a little bit more again since they are useless now (except for on carriers and other big targets). This would make then usefull again. And have a little more payout for a long skill training in order to be able to handle them.
As of the range of the javelin torpedoes; If u look in the item database u'll see that they're called LONG range torpedoes. I do not see this getting reflected in game anymore. If u are flying a raven, with caldari battleship at 5, and both of the range missile skills at 5 u'll get a MAX range of 154 kilometer(according to my calculations). You do not hear my saying that they were good in the last version (jav torps reaching up to 250km). But the range on the javs can be pumped up a little but more (my opinion).
But then again, these are just my 2 cents. I would like to know what u guys think about it.
SFShootme
Tho shall give Life, for Life. |
Lord WarATron
Amarr
Black Nova Corp
Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2007.02.06 12:01:00 -
[2]
Jav torps as it currently stands, is mostly useless. Rage torps are also useless unless the target is webbed and multi-painted (and you have to use a gang mate as your cap cannot sustain webbers/painters due to rage penalty)
Of course, with that said, rage vs capital ships is pretty decent, and javalins, although nerfed, still have some uses in rare situations. Thats the problem with t2 ammo - Its only good in certain situations. Unlike faction gun ammo, which is great for all situations.
To be honest, just train up cruise and use t1/t2 cruise missiles. The dps difference makes no difference now in the age of nanoships, so you probebly do more dps with t1 cruise than jav torps vs nanoships with max skills.
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Dita Jin
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Posted - 2007.02.06 12:07:00 -
[3]
Just like the above said, the t2 torps, and all t2 ammo for that matter is specialized for one purpose, using them for something else could prove to be a fatal mistake and they will perform badly at those tasks.
IMHO the rage torps, and torps in general are better suited for taking down very large targets, changing a turret for a siege launcher on my abaddon did not improve my dps vs battleships, and it certanly didn't help taking care of smaller ships(but that was expected)
The cruise missiles are alot better atm, i recommend using them, if you got t2 torps, then t2 cruise shouldn't be many sp away.
And for the most of the part, any missile weaponry > Turrets of same class, so i think they should stay abit nerfed.
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Hoshi
Blackguard Brigade
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Posted - 2007.02.06 13:29:00 -
[4]
Edited by: Hoshi on 06/02/2007 13:25:27
 Originally by: Lord WarATron
Unlike faction gun ammo, which is great for all situations.
Now where is my faction missiles? Weren't we promised those like 2 years ago?
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A Guide to Scan Probing in Revelations |
zayanka
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Posted - 2007.02.06 13:59:00 -
[5]
i never reccomend using cruise missiles, because if u meet t2 fitted geddon or mega, u will die ...die fast.
just because cruises do a ...well almost no damage
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LUKEC
Destructive Influence
Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2007.02.06 14:03:00 -
[6]
Edited by: LUKEC on 06/02/2007 14:04:45
Edited by: LUKEC on 06/02/2007 14:04:25
Rigs are ingame. My javelin torps happily fly 200km.
Explostion radius nerf & rise of drake made raven pretty much worthless ship, though.
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SFShootme
The Carebear Stare
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Posted - 2007.02.06 14:30:00 -
[7]
Edited by: SFShootme on 06/02/2007 14:26:39
Originally by: Dita Jin
Just like the above said, the t2 torps, and all t2 ammo for that matter is specialized for one purpose, using them for something else could prove to be a fatal mistake and they will perform badly at those tasks.
What i do think however is that t2 turret/laser/etc ammo finds way better use than t2 torpedoes atm. I just find it harsh to see that t2 torps are useless now, unless used against bigass targets. My suggestion is that the range on the javs are to be increased a little bit, and the damage also.
The rage torps should have their damage increased also to make it of good use against other bs again.
The only advantage of having t2 siege launchers fitted atm is that u'll get a 2% rof increase per "advanced torpedoes" skill.
And so far i've only seen other people that think about this the same way i do. Good to see we're all on one line.
Tho shall give Life, for Life. |
SFShootme
The Carebear Stare
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Posted - 2007.02.07 11:46:00 -
[8]
any more thoughts on this?
Tho shall give Life, for Life. |
Leandro Salazar
Aeon Industries
Confederation of Independent Corporations
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Posted - 2007.02.07 15:54:00 -
[9]
Edited by: Leandro Salazar on 07/02/2007 15:51:04
I still use Rages in PvP, even though I find the 25% damage advantage over T1 torps not exactly stellar, I rather liked the old 50% with 1000m exp radius a lot more. Gave Bellicoses a purpose!
As for Javelins, long range is about the only thing they are good for anymore, their precision and their damage both got nerfed back to T1 or to even worse in the case of damage. And since using torps at long range is extremely situational at best, and usually pretty stupid, they are mostly worthless. The fix I would like to see for them is for the stuff that affects explosion radius (GMP skill, implant, rig) to affect Jav torps too. But I don't see that happening 
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ZOMG my sig was concordokkened!
Link removed due to bad language on remote site. -wystler
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Waxau
Liberty Rogues
Coalition of Carebear Killers
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Posted - 2007.02.07 17:36:00 -
[10]
ps - Its NERF 
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SFShootme
The Carebear Stare
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Posted - 2007.02.08 07:49:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Waxau
ps - Its NERF
whoops 
Tho shall give Life, for Life. |
Thetis
Caldari
NewDawn
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Posted - 2007.02.08 08:08:00 -
[12]
Quote:
The fix I would like to see for them is for the stuff that affects explosion radius (GMP skill, implant, rig) to affect Jav torps too
^^ These currently dont affect Javelins? What about Rage? or is it for Torps Overall? :s
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Leandro Salazar
Aeon Industries
Confederation of Independent Corporations
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Posted - 2007.02.08 09:21:00 -
[13]
Doesn't affect any torps.
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ZOMG my sig was concordokkened!
Link removed due to bad language on remote site. -wystler
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Gyro DuAquin1
Tri Optimum
Dusk and Dawn
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Posted - 2007.02.08 09:30:00 -
[14]
I used the t2(jav) a lot, but i must admit there was something wrong with those, i popped cruiers and bc like there where mad of paper, i killed a deimos in one volley. So i agree with ccp that those things needed some kind of balancing. Hitting this for 950 damage isnt something that must be in the game.
Originally by: Leandro Salazar
Edited by: Leandro Salazar on 07/02/2007 15:51:04
I still use Rages in PvP, even though I find the 25% damage advantage over T1 torps not exactly stellar, I rather liked the old 50% with 1000m exp radius a lot more. Gave Bellicoses a purpose!
Even painted the rage have the problem to be too slow, when a cruiser can escape ur torps there must be something wrong.
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Roemy Schneider
BINFORD
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Posted - 2007.02.08 10:11:00 -
[15]
uhmm... "hit with the nerfbat badly"? a few javelins and furies, yes. and that was totally necessary. it was like using medium turrets with largo ammo. they just had too much damage for a too tiny explosion radius.
the rage torp damage just got shoved around but it remains a weapon designed for kicking LARGE stuff. with the change, they're no longer imitations of their citadel brethren while still dealing roughly the same amount of damage against anything below ~430m signature.
oh, and you didn't notice the batter cap recharge rates with t2 missles now?
bottomline: yes, "me caldari, me raven, me kill all" got its nails clipped a bit against smaller targets and it was about time :o
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RedClaws
Amarr
Dragon's Rage
Intrepid Crossing
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Posted - 2007.02.08 10:15:00 -
[16]
Ok so t2 fury are made to fight capital ships but when does that ever happen?
Then again : what are fury cruise for then? I see no reason to use fury cruise instead of torps (except fitting issues perhaps)
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Gyro DuAquin1
Tri Optimum
Dusk and Dawn
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Posted - 2007.02.08 10:18:00 -
[17]
Originally by: RedClaws
Ok so t2 fury are made to fight capital ships but when does that ever happen?
for some ppl it happens quiet often, rage are mad for this, if u r not shooting caps or pos then this torp has no need for u.
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LUKEC
Destructive Influence
Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2007.02.08 11:50:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Gyro DuAquin1
I used the t2(jav) a lot, but i must admit there was something wrong with those, i popped cruiers and bc like there where mad of paper, i killed a deimos in one volley. So i agree with ccp that those things needed some kind of balancing. Hitting this for 950 damage isnt something that must be in the game.
3x estamel bcu ?
With 3x dg bcus i did something like 826dmg on unhardened stuff. And it only hit gallente CS for full dmg, rest was reduced.
However if retards were ramming you with mwd on, it had consequences.
My best was 4 volleying bs(mining, no explo/kin hardener), 6 volleying dual rep astarte
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SFShootme
The Carebear Stare
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Posted - 2007.02.09 15:48:00 -
[19]
If you look on quickfit u'll see that fitting rage torps for another battleship will only reduce the damage on the particulair target.... Interesting, since you would atleast expect them to give SOME more damage on another battleship.
Tho shall give Life, for Life. |
SFShootme
The Carebear Stare
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Posted - 2007.02.09 18:13:00 -
[20]
Quote:
I used the t2(jav) a lot, but i must admit there was something wrong with those, i popped cruiers and bc like there where mad of paper, i killed a deimos in one volley. So i agree with ccp that those things needed some kind of balancing. Hitting this for 950 damage isnt something that must be in the game.
Before the nerf u where not able to hit for that kind of damage either... I wonder where u get ur info from, haha
Tho shall give Life, for Life. |
Montero
Kemono.
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Posted - 2007.02.09 18:51:00 -
[21]
F != ve
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Scrapheap Challenge
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Karma Coma
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Posted - 2007.02.10 09:47:00 -
[22]
Edited by: Karma Coma on 10/02/2007 09:44:49
All T2 ammo is 'nerfed' so to speak. But at the end of the day the whole point is each T2 ammo gets an added bonus. In order to capitalize on this bonus you must be willing to sacrifice something and, they each hit something different accordingly. Its quite illogical to say that they are bad because they are giving a boost in something. Boosters are a perfect example, you gain something but you get massive pentalties as a result. Its not that the ammo is bad its just you must understand to get something you must be willing to loose something. As simple as that.
*edit* neural boosters that is... coreli corp is bad 
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Gamesguy
Amarr
E X O D U S
Imperial Republic Of the North
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Posted - 2007.02.10 11:03:00 -
[23]
A couple of heavy target painter drones will get you full damage on BS with rage, no need for a gangmate.
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Pan Crastus
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Posted - 2007.02.10 11:13:00 -
[24]
Originally by: SFShootme
If you look on quickfit u'll see that fitting rage torps for another battleship will only reduce the damage on the particulair target.... Interesting, since you would atleast expect them to give SOME more damage on another battleship.
It does give more damage on Battleships with signature radius greater than 400m (e.g. a Raven, all tier-3 BS ...).
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Sokratesz
Guardians of Hell's Gate
Tactical Narcotics Team
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Posted - 2007.02.10 12:59:00 -
[25]
Edited by: Sokratesz on 10/02/2007 12:55:52
Originally by: Montero
F != ve
getting on my nerves kid?
but seriously, this whole nerf gets me nervous
Suicide is bad, hmkay? (clickety clickety) |
SFShootme
The Carebear Stare
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Posted - 2007.02.10 20:17:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Pan Crastus
Originally by: SFShootme
If you look on quickfit u'll see that fitting rage torps for another battleship will only reduce the damage on the particulair target.... Interesting, since you would atleast expect them to give SOME more damage on another battleship.
It does give more damage on Battleships with signature radius greater than 400m (e.g. a Raven, all tier-3 BS ...).
Rages won't have their full damage potential untill the target is larger than 600m, which is basicly no battleship at all.
And they will deal less damage on a raven than normall torps, (unless the target is painted)
Tho shall give Life, for Life. |
SFShootme
The Carebear Stare
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Posted - 2007.02.13 07:49:00 -
[27]
oh... and i forgot to add that if the target is faster than 100m/s it won't deal full dmg either :)
Tho shall give Life, for Life. |
Danjira Ryuujin
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Posted - 2007.02.13 08:17:00 -
[28]
Originally by: SFShootme
oh... and i forgot to add that if the target is faster than 100m/s it won't deal full dmg either :)
This is why target painters and webifiers exist.
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SFShootme
The Carebear Stare
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Posted - 2007.02.13 11:50:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Danjira Ryuujin
Originally by: SFShootme
oh... and i forgot to add that if the target is faster than 100m/s it won't deal full dmg either :)
This is why target painters and webifiers exist.
you are forgetting that we need those precious med-slots for our tank
Tho shall give Life, for Life. |
Okamoto
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Posted - 2007.02.13 12:11:00 -
[30]
Originally by: SFShootme
Originally by: Danjira Ryuujin
Originally by: SFShootme
oh... and i forgot to add that if the target is faster than 100m/s it won't deal full dmg either :)
This is why target painters and webifiers exist.
you are forgetting that we need those precious med-slots for our tank
That is an intended game design. You give up tank for more damage. Just like most turret ships give up armor tank for damage mods.
/Y
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