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Atticus Fynch
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
1
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Posted - 2011.12.16 21:05:00 -
[1] - Quote
After reading the thread on why people suicide gank, the obvious answer..."because they can"...doesnt really address the question.
Apparently there are advantages and disadvantages involved in doing so.
The question here is, currently with present day EVE mechanics, do the advantages outweigh the disadvantages? And if so how can it be better balanced so as to discourage it.
Your thoughts/ideas? |
Ninyania alCladdyth
McLuvin AstroDynamics
3
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Posted - 2011.12.16 21:06:00 -
[2] - Quote
Why do you feel it needs to be discouraged? |
Atticus Fynch
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
1
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Posted - 2011.12.16 21:08:00 -
[3] - Quote
Ninyania alCladdyth wrote:Why do you feel it needs to be discouraged?
Good point. But it does bring up the question is it normal gameplay or just CCP sanctioned griefing?
I guess it depends who you talk to and what your idea of "game" is.
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Feligast
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
479
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Posted - 2011.12.16 21:08:00 -
[4] - Quote
Edit: Why do you feel it's griefing? |
Minister of Death
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
24
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Posted - 2011.12.16 21:10:00 -
[5] - Quote
Atticus Fynch wrote: the obvious answer..."because they can"...doesnt really address the question.
how does "because they can" not address the question?
are you daft?
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Ninyania alCladdyth
McLuvin AstroDynamics
3
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Posted - 2011.12.16 21:12:00 -
[6] - Quote
IMO, outlaws (-5 sec & lower) should be freely pod-killable with no repercussions from Concord. While this won't "fix the problem", the constant stream of high-ISK-value clone losses and/or SP losses might discourage the behavior... assuming one of us "carebears" has the balls to lock & shoot a pod.
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FuryX1013
United Space Republic Research ORPHANS OF EVE
1
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Posted - 2011.12.16 21:13:00 -
[7] - Quote
While I do not condone it or condemn it .
The answer to your question is this is a sandbox where your choices and actions have consequences. |
Ninyania alCladdyth
McLuvin AstroDynamics
3
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Posted - 2011.12.16 21:14:00 -
[8] - Quote
Minister of Death wrote:Atticus Fynch wrote: the obvious answer..."because they can"...doesnt really address the question. how does "because they can" not address the question? are you daft?
They don't do it "because they can" - they do it because of the chance of a lol-worthy killmail they can share with their peers for bragging rights. |
Pavel Bidermann
whips chains and ballgags Care Factor
53
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Posted - 2011.12.16 21:15:00 -
[9] - Quote
more importantly, why is there a need to continue to discuss this? Not sigling you out on this, I too am just asking. High sec has always had gankers, griefers, pirates and war decs. Not to forget the ever-present new guy who doesn't understand the rules of engagment and just randomly attacks somebody and then starts whining about why the po-po shot his ship. No matter how badly null sec wants to show that they are *awesome*, high sec has more challenges, game style options and more ships killed on a daily basis than null sec. As I keep pointing out though, that's the players' own fault.
Now that the null sec wars are over, there is little to do in EVE. At least that true for null sec pilots anyway. This is how they pass the time. This, and wondering why people don't think they're cool.
I guess the real question would be.....Is there a reason to log in? Probably not. |
Atticus Fynch
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
1
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Posted - 2011.12.16 21:23:00 -
[10] - Quote
Ninyania alCladdyth wrote:Minister of Death wrote:Atticus Fynch wrote: the obvious answer..."because they can"...doesnt really address the question. how does "because they can" not address the question? are you daft? They don't do it "because they can" - they do it because of the chance of a lol-worthy killmail they can share with their peers for bragging rights.
So there is an out of game advantage that being "bragging rights" even if it costs you sec status, isk and a ship. Not much of an in-game advantage though.
I like you idea about pod killing outlaws. I would like to see that implemented sometime. |
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Tribalic One
Suddenly Ninjas Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service
0
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Posted - 2011.12.16 21:25:00 -
[11] - Quote
Smell tears, I do.
I honestly don't understand why this is such a debate... It's not as if there are massive gank squadrons flying around ganking every hulk or freighter on undock. We are all playing the same game right?! Every ship I undock I know is at risk of being lost.
"Don't fly it, if you can't lose it."
- Some EvE Guy |
Krios Ahzek
Juvenis Iratus
307
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Posted - 2011.12.16 21:26:00 -
[12] - Quote
Atticus Fynch wrote:After reading the thread on why people suicide gank, the obvious answer..."because they can"...doesnt really address the question.
Apparently there are advantages and disadvantages involved in doing so.
The question here is, currently with present day EVE mechanics, do the advantages outweigh the disadvantages? And if so how can it be better balanced so as to discourage it.
Your thoughts/ideas?
Pro: You gank someone. Con: Your ship is destroyed Do not take me for some conjurer of cheap tricks. |
Doc Fury
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
13
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Posted - 2011.12.16 21:34:00 -
[13] - Quote
A housewife from Encino Whose husband's on the golf course With his book of rules Breaks and makes a 'U' and idles back, To take a second look at you You flex your rod Fish takes the hook Sweet vodka and tobacco in her breath Another number in your little black book
The accumulated filth of all their sex and murder will foam up about their waists and all the ho's and politicians will look up and shout 'Save us!' and I'll look down, and whisper 'no.' |
Jenn Makanen
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
99
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Posted - 2011.12.16 21:40:00 -
[14] - Quote
Believe it or not, there are plenty of people who suicide gank for profit. Good enough reason?
It's risky, due to the drop rate, and not quite as profitable now as it used to be, due to the concord insurance change, but it's still worth it. |
Minister of Death
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
24
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Posted - 2011.12.16 21:42:00 -
[15] - Quote
Ninyania alCladdyth wrote:Minister of Death wrote:Atticus Fynch wrote: the obvious answer..."because they can"...doesnt really address the question. how does "because they can" not address the question? are you daft? They don't do it "because they can" - they do it because of the chance of a lol-worthy killmail they can share with their peers for bragging rights.
1. i think you are wrong 2. i think you cannot prove that in any way, shape, or form 3. i cannot fathom how you can even make this assertion |
IGNATIUS HOOD
Zephyr Corp V.A.S.T.
87
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Posted - 2011.12.16 21:50:00 -
[16] - Quote
Motivation is where you find it. Never underestimate the lengths that a man will go to to punish someone he deems worthy of the treatment. This stands +100% in EVE.
For EVE is a harsh mistress, and for most death is the ultimate teacher. Thankfully its just a game and we can learn from our mistakes. 'perfer et obdura; dolor hic tibi proderit olim'
Be patient and tough; some day this pain will be useful to you. |
Atticus Fynch
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
1
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Posted - 2011.12.16 21:51:00 -
[17] - Quote
Well, I read a lot about "carebear tears" yet there is nothing to incite "pirate tears" in EVE. Seems kind'a one-sided. You are either predator or prey in EVE and the predators have the upper hand.
I think that is were the balance is lacking. |
Opertone
Signal 7 The Jagged Alliance
56
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Posted - 2011.12.16 21:57:00 -
[18] - Quote
IMHO sec status can not be gained by killing NPCs.
Sec status regain - mining in a correctional facility. You'll love care and bears, you'll adapt to society better. Work brings mind in order. People may only volunteer to enter corfac to repay debts to society. Otherwise they never get sec status back. |
Atticus Fynch
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
1
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Posted - 2011.12.16 22:00:00 -
[19] - Quote
Opertone wrote:IMHO sec status can not be gained by killing NPCs.
Sec status regain - mining in a correctional facility. You'll love care and bears, you'll adapt to society better. Work brings mind in order. People may only volunteer to enter corfac to repay debts to society. Otherwise they never get sec status back.
EVE JAIL!!!
Love it!!
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ACE McFACE
Acetech Systems
141
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Posted - 2011.12.16 22:04:00 -
[20] - Quote
Atticus Fynch wrote:Well, I read a lot about "carebear tears" yet there is nothing to incite "pirate tears" in EVE. Seems kind'a one-sided. You are either predator or prey in EVE and the predators have the upper hand.
I think that is were the balance is lacking.
The 'prey' could always tank their hulks, or not cart around 1b of stuff in a T1 Industrial, and there have been plenty of pirate tears threads. For example: Whaa Whaa why don't I get insurance from my ship being destroyed by Concord anymore!?!?
Assuming by pirate tears you mean ganker tears
Real men wear goggles and a Navy shirt! |
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Tribalic One
Suddenly Ninjas Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service
1
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Posted - 2011.12.16 22:08:00 -
[21] - Quote
Atticus Fynch wrote:Well, I read a lot about "carebear tears" yet there is nothing to incite "pirate tears" in EVE. Seems kind'a one-sided. You are either predator or prey in EVE and the predators have the upper hand.
I think that is were the balance is lacking.
Every carebear has the ability to sharpen its teeth and defend its self. Also, the shear number of 's to 's could make up for the lack of PvP experience. There just is no organization in the carebear realm, IMO.
So it's not game mechanics that have the prey at a disadvantage, it's the "deer in the headlights" stance the prey takes. |
IGNATIUS HOOD
Zephyr Corp V.A.S.T.
88
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Posted - 2011.12.16 22:11:00 -
[22] - Quote
Atticus Fynch wrote:Well, I read a lot about "carebear tears" yet there is nothing to incite "pirate tears" in EVE. Seems kind'a one-sided. You are either predator or prey in EVE and the predators have the upper hand.
I think that is were the balance is lacking.
The bears right the balance by fleeting up and defending each other. Also simply not AFK mining, watching local, gathering intel on gankers and paying attention to where they are would be a step in the right direction. You can't really stop someone determined to kill you regardless of cost but you can use the same resources he uses to find you to instead find him. Also would it really kill the bears to fit a few frigs and give these guys something to think about. Frigs are cheap and enough of them could really do something.
Also, whats stopping the bears from getting more organized into bigger corps, larger alliances, and war deccing the Pirate Corps behind all of this? Is it fear? Like I said before, Frigs are cheap. 'perfer et obdura; dolor hic tibi proderit olim'
Be patient and tough; some day this pain will be useful to you. |
Mag's
the united Negative Ten.
3200
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Posted - 2011.12.16 22:12:00 -
[23] - Quote
Atticus Fynch wrote:Ninyania alCladdyth wrote:Why do you feel it needs to be discouraged? Good point. But it does bring up the question is it normal gameplay or just CCP sanctioned griefing? I guess it depends who you talk to and what your idea of "game" is. You didn't answer, as to why you think it should be discouraged?
Also it is CCP sanctioned, it is not griefing and therefore normal game play.
Ninyania alCladdyth wrote:IMO, outlaws (-5 sec & lower) should be freely pod-killable with no repercussions from Concord. While this won't "fix the problem", the constant stream of high-ISK-value clone losses and/or SP losses might discourage the behavior... assuming one of us "carebears" has the balls to lock & shoot a pod.
I thought anyone -5 and below was pod-killable without concord intervention, or has this changed?
CCP Zulu..... Forcing players to dock at the captain's quarters is a form of what we actually wanted to get through, which is making Incarna a seamless part of the EVE Online experience. |
Generals4
Caldari State
553
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Posted - 2011.12.16 22:14:00 -
[24] - Quote
Ironically when mechanics allow "pirate tears" they whine and call "hax". Like the wardec shield "system" , apparently a blatant abuse of mechanics according to some "pirates". Or being able to kick corp members in space which ensures hilarity if that corp member was a ninja griefer who just joined to kill corp members.
Using the game mechanics in an anti-pirate way = ebil/wrong/fail Using game mechanics in an anti-carebear way = sooo tough/badass/win/trololo
Personally i enjoy both as i don't mind either and i get to enjoy watching both sides whine like little babies. -Death is nothing, but to live defeated and inglorious is to die daily. |
IGNATIUS HOOD
Zephyr Corp V.A.S.T.
88
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Posted - 2011.12.16 22:16:00 -
[25] - Quote
Generals4 wrote:Ironically when mechanics allow "pirate tears" they whine and call "hax". Like the wardec shield "system" , apparently a blatant abuse of mechanics according to some "pirates". Or being able to kick corp members in space which ensures hilarity if that corp member was a ninja griefer who just joined to kill corp members.
Using the game mechanics in an anti-pirate way = ebil/wrong/fail Using game mechanics in an anti-carebear way = sooo tough/badass/win/trololo
Personally i enjoy both as i don't mind either and i get to enjoy watching both sides whine like little babies.
You and I Sirrah, we see the same things I think. 'perfer et obdura; dolor hic tibi proderit olim'
Be patient and tough; some day this pain will be useful to you. |
Xolve
Epidemic.
181
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Posted - 2011.12.16 22:18:00 -
[26] - Quote
Ahh every day, another thread about the same thing, suicide ganking isn't going anywhere, It isn't 'griefing'.. .and if CCP didn't approve of it.. why the hell did they give us Battlecruisers with Battleship sized weapons? Oh- you thought they were for running missions
Mag's wrote:Ninyania alCladdyth wrote:IMO, outlaws (-5 sec & lower) should be freely pod-killable with no repercussions from Concord. While this won't "fix the problem", the constant stream of high-ISK-value clone losses and/or SP losses might discourage the behavior... assuming one of us "carebears" has the balls to lock & shoot a pod.
I thought anyone -5 and below was pod-killable without concord intervention, or has this changed?
They are still pod killable, some people just havn't sorted out what the color 'red' means in EvE yet. You can shoot their ships, you can shoot their pods. Regular people that go GCC with about -5 sec status can have their ships shot at by anyone near by, but their pod is still protected by CONCORD. Lady Spank for C&P Moderator.
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Mag's
the united Negative Ten.
3202
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Posted - 2011.12.16 22:22:00 -
[27] - Quote
Xolve wrote:Ahh every day, another thread about the same thing, suicide ganking isn't going anywhere, It isn't 'griefing'.. .and if CCP didn't approve of it.. why the hell did they give us Battlecruisers with Battleship sized weapons? Oh- you thought they were for running missions Mag's wrote:Ninyania alCladdyth wrote:IMO, outlaws (-5 sec & lower) should be freely pod-killable with no repercussions from Concord. While this won't "fix the problem", the constant stream of high-ISK-value clone losses and/or SP losses might discourage the behavior... assuming one of us "carebears" has the balls to lock & shoot a pod.
I thought anyone -5 and below was pod-killable without concord intervention, or has this changed? They are still pod killable, some people just havn't sorted out what the color 'red' means in EvE yet. You can shoot their ships, you can shoot their pods. Regular people that go GCC with about -5 sec status can have their ships shot at by anyone near by, but their pod is still protected by CONCORD. Ahh so it's just another person complaining about game mechanics, they have absolutely no clue about. Thanks bud.
CCP Zulu..... Forcing players to dock at the captain's quarters is a form of what we actually wanted to get through, which is making Incarna a seamless part of the EVE Online experience. |
Ninyania alCladdyth
McLuvin AstroDynamics
4
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Posted - 2011.12.16 22:23:00 -
[28] - Quote
. |
Generals4
Caldari State
554
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Posted - 2011.12.16 22:23:00 -
[29] - Quote
IGNATIUS HOOD wrote:Generals4 wrote:Ironically when mechanics allow "pirate tears" they whine and call "hax". Like the wardec shield "system" , apparently a blatant abuse of mechanics according to some "pirates". Or being able to kick corp members in space which ensures hilarity if that corp member was a ninja griefer who just joined to kill corp members.
Using the game mechanics in an anti-pirate way = ebil/wrong/fail Using game mechanics in an anti-carebear way = sooo tough/badass/win/trololo
Personally i enjoy both as i don't mind either and i get to enjoy watching both sides whine like little babies. You and I Sirrah, we see the same things I think.
Yeah, i don't see why people complain that much, this is a sandbox, sandboxes are supposed to have few rules, if people find ingenious ways to grief or protect themselves, more power to them. There are equally as many ways to get back at them anyway. -Death is nothing, but to live defeated and inglorious is to die daily. |
Atticus Fynch
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
1
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Posted - 2011.12.16 22:25:00 -
[30] - Quote
Ninyania alCladdyth wrote:.
Im not too clear on this either. |
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