Pages: 1 2 3 [4] 5 :: one page |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Ladie Harlot
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1749
|
Posted - 2012.03.03 18:42:00 -
[91] - Quote
D'Kelle wrote:Dont get angry
Somebody needs to take their own advice.
The artist formerly known as Ladie Scarlet. |
ReiAnn
Nova-Tek
0
|
Posted - 2012.03.03 19:22:00 -
[92] - Quote
Yes, please, threaten me with suicide ganking crew. Grow up. This is the prime example of the people who need to go back to playing WOW. They don't have the intellect to do anything that might actually force them into a fight they might loose. No where in the world do legimate corporations openningly consort with criminals. If you want to be a criminal, then you have to deal with the conseqences of your actions. CCP really needs to institute a prison system like Escape from New York or better yet place them in a padded cell like any suicidal person is kept in by authorities for a long length of time. Keep players from clone jumping so they are forced to risk the fancy implants they don't want to risk while suiciding themselves. Force gankers to pay for damages done before being allowed to grind back their security status. If a PVE player is forced to deal wtih PVP players, then at least make the losses equal.
And by the way, there is no where on the main site that claims EVE is a pvp only game. so either the developers need to change their advertising or actually make EVE a game of all varieties. |
Basileus Volkan
Merch Industrial Goonswarm Federation
97
|
Posted - 2012.03.03 19:52:00 -
[93] - Quote
ReiAnn wrote:They don't have the intellect to do anything that might actually force them into a fight they might loose.
Kinda like all those bots miners during the Interdiction who didn't have the intellect to take proper precautions, huh? |
Ladie Harlot
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1754
|
Posted - 2012.03.03 20:00:00 -
[94] - Quote
ReiAnn wrote:Yes, please, threaten me with suicide ganking crew. Grow up. This is the prime example of the people who need to go back to playing WOW. They don't have the intellect to do anything that might actually force them into a fight they might loose. No where in the world do legimate corporations openningly consort with criminals. If you want to be a criminal, then you have to deal with the conseqences of your actions. CCP really needs to institute a prison system like Escape from New York or better yet place them in a padded cell like any suicidal person is kept in by authorities for a long length of time. Keep players from clone jumping so they are forced to risk the fancy implants they don't want to risk while suiciding themselves. Force gankers to pay for damages done before being allowed to grind back their security status. If a PVE player is forced to deal wtih PVP players, then at least make the losses equal.
And by the way, there is no where on the main site that claims EVE is a pvp only game. so either the developers need to change their advertising or actually make EVE a game of all varieties.
1. "Go back to WoW"
2. Suicide gankers are too stupid to play the game the "right" way
3. Suicide gankers are pathological and belong in padded cells.
4. Eve isn't a PvP game.
5. There are no consequences for suicide ganking.
It's amazing that you managed to fit every fallacy or cliche about suicide ganking into a single paragraph. There should be some sort of medal. The artist formerly known as Ladie Scarlet. |
Psychotic Monk
The Hebrew In Me Pinked
100
|
Posted - 2012.03.03 21:45:00 -
[95] - Quote
Eve's uniqueness lies in the fact that it lets us to terrible things to each other. Everything about this game sucks except that. This is the only game where we can actually effect other players.
Why do you want to crush such a beautiful and unique precious animal? There are a thousand MMOs where you will be protected. Hell, you guys already have way too much protection.
After all the game is literally called Everybody vs. Everybody. |
D'Kelle
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
14
|
Posted - 2012.03.03 21:51:00 -
[96] - Quote
Ladie Harlot wrote:ReiAnn wrote:Yes, please, threaten me with suicide ganking crew. Grow up. This is the prime example of the people who need to go back to playing WOW. They don't have the intellect to do anything that might actually force them into a fight they might loose. No where in the world do legimate corporations openningly consort with criminals. If you want to be a criminal, then you have to deal with the conseqences of your actions. CCP really needs to institute a prison system like Escape from New York or better yet place them in a padded cell like any suicidal person is kept in by authorities for a long length of time. Keep players from clone jumping so they are forced to risk the fancy implants they don't want to risk while suiciding themselves. Force gankers to pay for damages done before being allowed to grind back their security status. If a PVE player is forced to deal wtih PVP players, then at least make the losses equal.
And by the way, there is no where on the main site that claims EVE is a pvp only game. so either the developers need to change their advertising or actually make EVE a game of all varieties. 1. "Go back to WoW" 2. Suicide gankers are too stupid to play the game the "right" way 3. Suicide gankers are pathological and belong in padded cells. 4. Eve isn't a PvP game. 5. There are no consequences for suicide ganking. It's amazing that you managed to fit every fallacy or cliche about suicide ganking into a single paragraph. There should be some sort of medal.
Ah there speaks a typical Goon wanabe one of your ah dim witted just like your compatriot John Zorg Vhttps://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=832884&
Who attempted rather patetically to this my statement shown below. Sorry bub no matter what you put forward or how eloquently you put it over, most EVE players just wouldnGÇÖt trust anyone involved or attached to Goons, you have made your selves a universal pariah to the majority of normal players, so the trust level relating to your group to actually do as to what you so blithely portray would register as -99.9 Goons have stood for too much griefing and other crap in the past to be trusted to being balanced. You have cut your cloth now wear the suit. Players donGÇÖt want an EVE according to the book of Goon
You are not even a true Goon. just a wannabe Goon trailing along in their great shadow. like some beggar attempting to be what youre not.
|
Adranamnamnmalalmnalmanl
Blue Mondays Hauling
0
|
Posted - 2012.03.03 21:55:00 -
[97] - Quote
OP has 'suicide ganked' his character and biomassed. Also, I love goons. |
Cyprus Black
Cowboy Diplomacy
151
|
Posted - 2012.03.03 22:06:00 -
[98] - Quote
Atticus Fynch wrote:After reading the thread on why people suicide gank, the obvious answer..."because they can"...doesnt really address the question.
Apparently there are advantages and disadvantages involved in doing so.
The question here is, currently with present day EVE mechanics, do the advantages outweigh the disadvantages? And if so how can it be better balanced so as to discourage it.
Your thoughts/ideas? Suicide ganks are so prevalent in highsec because highsec PvP is broken. It's so broken that it's the only viable offensive method left. Even the GMs will freely admit this. They'll tell you that yes Wardec mechanics are broken and the only viable way to get at someone is to suicide gank them.
Follow my EvE blog at: http://cyprusblack.blogspot.com/ |
D'Kelle
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
14
|
Posted - 2012.03.03 22:09:00 -
[99] - Quote
Ninyania alCladdyth wrote:Mag's wrote:Atticus Fynch wrote:Ninyania alCladdyth wrote:. Im not too clear on this either. We as -5 and below understand that having such a low sec status, opens us up to being shootable anywhere any time. This includes pods. One of the reasons we run through empire in pods, isn't due to them not being shootable, but simply because they insta warp. Sorry for seeming so dense... I've been having a problem finding a clear-cut statement on whether or not Outlaw (-5 sec and lower) pods were "fair game" - every other thread I've searched out and read through made it sound like pod-kills always invoked a security status drop, and then de-evolved into carebear-vs-pirate flamewars before actually *answering the question*.
just keep a few cheap alts to suicide podkill the bas*ards then recycle your throwaway alt char. keep em in an npc corp with no link too you just like they do. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
5203
|
Posted - 2012.03.03 22:13:00 -
[100] - Quote
ReiAnn wrote:And by the way, there is no where on the main site that claims EVE is a pvp only game. so either the developers need to change their advertising or actually make EVE a game of all varieties. Have you tried actually visiting the main site before making these kinds of claims?
When I go there now, its main feature is a rolling slideshow showing four particular areas: GÇ£One universeGÇ¥, GÇ£Discover the sandboxGÇ¥, GÇ£EVE's creationsGÇ¥ and GÇ£Be a capsuleerGÇ¥.
One universe: a lot of talk about dominating the galaxy, taking part in warfare, engaging in politics, competing against other players. Discover the sandbox: discusses how every action you take affects the rest of the universe. EVE's creations: mainly videos featuring combat. Be a capsuleer: mentions that there are other playersGǪ
GǪof these four highlights, only the last one does not feature combat and competition in a very clear way (and even the capsuleer page shows competition between players). In addition, all of their advertising is about the PvP. So yeah, no, you'd have to be pretty darn daft to look at the main page or read anything about EVE anywhere and not grasp the PvP nature of the game.
They advertise the game for what it is GÇö there is no need to change it to make it GÇ£a game of all varietiesGÇ¥ (largely because it would be impossible and because it would actually ruin everything that makes the game special). GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Find more rants over at Tippis' Rants. |
|
Xorv
Questionable Acquisitions
137
|
Posted - 2012.03.03 22:15:00 -
[101] - Quote
Cyprus Black wrote:Suicide ganks are so prevalent in highsec because highsec PvP is broken. It's so broken that it's the only viable offensive method left. Even the GMs will freely admit this. They'll tell you that yes Wardec mechanics are broken and the only viable way to get at someone is to suicide gank them.
This is the answer to the OP. Fix Wardecs and NPC corps and suicide ganking will rapidly diminish. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
5203
|
Posted - 2012.03.03 22:20:00 -
[102] - Quote
Also, new stats from CCP: less than 900 ships per day are used for suicide ganks in February. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Find more rants over at Tippis' Rants. |
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
763
|
Posted - 2012.03.03 22:32:00 -
[103] - Quote
Atticus Fynch wrote:
The question here is, currently with present day EVE mechanics, do the advantages outweigh the disadvantages?
Yes. Absolutely
Quote: And if so how can it be better balanced so as to discourage it.
It's an integral part of the EVE experience. I wouldn't go as far as to say discourage the practice but as it stands right now the consequences are just too non existent to make it anything but encouraged. It's like CCP are trying to prove how bad ass they are by making griefing online instead of EVE online.
Suicide ganking should be something you need to think about. Something you need to take the time to balance the pros and cons before heading off to destroy someones hard earned ship. Not something you do on a whim because you are bored.
So... never discourage it, but don't make it so easy either. A little balance in the mechanic and things would be improved. I find if they tweak it so that both the gankers and the gankees are bitching then it's just about where it should be. Only one side is complaining right now. To me, that says there's a problem.
Mr Epeen
Me too!-á I ate one sour, too! |
Corina Jarr
Spazzoid Enterprises Purpose Built
594
|
Posted - 2012.03.03 22:51:00 -
[104] - Quote
D'Kelle wrote:Ninyania alCladdyth wrote:Mag's wrote:Atticus Fynch wrote:Ninyania alCladdyth wrote:. Im not too clear on this either. We as -5 and below understand that having such a low sec status, opens us up to being shootable anywhere any time. This includes pods. One of the reasons we run through empire in pods, isn't due to them not being shootable, but simply because they insta warp. Sorry for seeming so dense... I've been having a problem finding a clear-cut statement on whether or not Outlaw (-5 sec and lower) pods were "fair game" - every other thread I've searched out and read through made it sound like pod-kills always invoked a security status drop, and then de-evolved into carebear-vs-pirate flamewars before actually *answering the question*. just keep a few cheap alts to suicide podkill the bas*ards then recycle your throwaway alt char. keep em in an npc corp with no link too you just like they do. This is bannable. |
Serene Repose
Perkone Caldari State
343
|
Posted - 2012.03.03 22:52:00 -
[105] - Quote
Suicide missions of any sort should be a last resort. The gain should accrue to a general benefit to whom the operative represents, but the operative should gain no benefit from the act. An example from history would be Japan's lack of anti-tank landmines. To overcome this, they placed soldiers in chameoflaged holes on roads, with a howitzer shell and a hammer. Tanks drives over hole. Soldier hits shell with hammer. Tank disabled or destroyed.
The victim loses something. The Japanese army gains only in not having to face the tank. The soldier loses everything but the supposed appreciation of a grateful nation. Don't go squawking about this isn't real life. Take the idea to another extreme in EVE. I suicide gank a station, my corp salvages and loots the station, which spews all the contents of all the players with cargo holds in that station. The salvage and loot would pay for a hundred more suicide ships. A corp would be limited only by time.
This puts me in mind of when ship prices fell beneath insurance payout amounts. You could actually make ISK (remember?) by buying ships and SD-ing them for the insurance payout. In a world without rules there would seem to be no problem with this. However, when you want an internal calibration of values, this would be seen as a bulge in the form of the economic ideal.
The other major point would be if you can suicide gank for significant profit to the ganker, there's no point in anyone doing anything else in the game - chokepoint - fundamental design flaw.
Smokestack lightnin' shinin' just like gold. |
Herping yourDerp
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
404
|
Posted - 2012.03.03 23:15:00 -
[106] - Quote
use a cheap ship to kill expensive ship potential profit if not for profit it makes your killboard look better then when u get killed to badgers. not for killboards, for tears not for any of those, just bored i guess
why is it bad? because look at the penalties. you lose your ship, woopee, it probably worth less then 100mil security status drop, this is irrelavant if you live in 0.0 or lowsec, can be grinded back up decently fast, and unless they fixed it even -10 people can go to highsec in a pod and jump into a ship to suicide gank people. isk faucet, as both people get insurance payouts
why is it good? carrying expensive stuff in cargo requires planning lolsauce killmails when people lose supercarrier bpos in frigates and stuff. helps eve economy a bit mineral sink, minerals to make the ship are lost to make new ones.
what they could do is offer incentives to keep your sec status high.. if you have +5 its about the same is having 0. |
Pok Nibin
Viziam Amarr Empire
83
|
Posted - 2012.03.03 23:27:00 -
[107] - Quote
Looks like you were really scratching to come up with those. Simple pleasures for simple minds. Don't fight it.-á Rejoin your Amarrian patriarchs.-á You know you want to. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
5206
|
Posted - 2012.03.03 23:41:00 -
[108] - Quote
Serene Repose wrote:Suicide missions of any sort should be a last resort. GǪand the thing (that others have pointed out already) is that it most likely already is. The problem is rather that, after years of security buffs and a complete abandonment of policing various exploits, suicide ganking is the last and only resort. If there has been any real increase in ganks (and I still doubt it on a longer scale, even though February had more of them than January according to CCP) then it's because there's nowhere else to go.
Quote:The other major point would be if you can suicide gank for significant profit to the ganker, there's no point in anyone doing anything else in the game - chokepoint - fundamental design flaw. That's part of it, and it kind of follows on the above point: it's not necessarily that ganks pay too much GÇö it's that the alternatives pay too little compared to the effort involved, due to how difficult they have become to set up in the GÇ£security creepGÇ¥ that has happened over the years. In addition, this security creep negatively feeds the profit mechanism: the safer people think they are, the more value they put into (or onto) their ships without worrying about it, so the better-paid the ganks become, the more the effort/reward for this kind of piracy goes out of whackGǪ
I still maintain that the best thing that can happen to highsec is to make it much less inherently safe, which requires people to adopt safety behaviour to decrease their risks, which improves their chances to avoid or just plain old survive ganks, which forces attackers to adopt better-planned strategies (that the lower safety level now allows for)GǪ
GǪand everyone wins (kind of): people are effectively more secure; that security is player-made; more combat options are available for the pirates; and more variety, choice and planning is available to all.
The design flaw is in the increased security, which gives the wrong signals to the victims and which lock attackers into a single tactic, and how these two then keep reinforcing themselves. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Find more rants over at Tippis' Rants. |
Ladie Harlot
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1757
|
Posted - 2012.03.03 23:45:00 -
[109] - Quote
D'Kelle wrote:Ah there speaks a typical Goon wanabe just like one of your ah dim witted kindyour compatriot John Zorg who pretends EVE needs ballance that from another Goon wannabe lol yeah and pigs might fly. LOL your'e agroup of dim bas*ards you cant even aggree amongst yourselves whats good or not for or in EVE. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=832884&Who attempted rather patetically to answer this my statement shown below. Sorry bub no matter what you put forward or how eloquently you put it over, most EVE players just wouldnGÇÖt trust anyone involved or attached to Goons, you have made your selves a universal pariah to the majority of normal players, so the trust level relating to your group to actually do as to what you so blithely portray would register as -99.9 Goons have stood for too much griefing and other crap in the past to be trusted to being balanced. You have cut your cloth now wear the suit. Players donGÇÖt want an EVE according to the book of Goon or Goonwaffe whatever that is. You are not even a true Goon. Just a wannabe Goon trailing along in their great shadow. like some beggar attempting to be what youre not. "Goonwaffe" sounds like some watered down erzats version of the "True Goons".
Can I get a translation of whatever this is into English?
The artist formerly known as Ladie Scarlet. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
5206
|
Posted - 2012.03.03 23:54:00 -
[110] - Quote
Ladie Harlot wrote:Can I get a translation of whatever this is into English? GÇ£Goons are meanGÇ¥.
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Find more rants over at Tippis' Rants. |
|
Ladie Harlot
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1757
|
Posted - 2012.03.03 23:56:00 -
[111] - Quote
Actually I just realized that anybody who starts spouting off about what it means to be a "True Goon" is a Xenuria alt. The artist formerly known as Ladie Scarlet. |
Psychotic Monk
The Hebrew In Me Pinked
100
|
Posted - 2012.03.04 00:16:00 -
[112] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Serene Repose wrote:Suicide missions of any sort should be a last resort. GǪand the thing (that others have pointed out already) is that it most likely already is. The problem is rather that, after years of security buffs and a complete abandonment of policing various exploits, suicide ganking is the last and only resort. If there has been any real increase in ganks (and I still doubt it on a longer scale, even though February had more of them than January according to CCP) then it's because there's nowhere else to go. Quote:The other major point would be if you can suicide gank for significant profit to the ganker, there's no point in anyone doing anything else in the game - chokepoint - fundamental design flaw. That's part of it, and it kind of follows on the above point: it's not necessarily that ganks pay too much GÇö it's that the alternatives pay too little compared to the effort involved, due to how difficult they have become to set up in the GÇ£security creepGÇ¥ that has happened over the years. In addition, this security creep negatively feeds the profit mechanism: the safer people think they are, the more value they put into (or onto) their ships without worrying about it, so the better-paid the ganks become, the more the effort/reward for this kind of piracy goes out of whackGǪ I still maintain that the best thing that can happen to highsec is to make it much less inherently safe, which requires people to adopt safety behaviour to decrease their risks, which improves their chances to avoid or just plain old survive ganks, which forces attackers to adopt better-planned strategies (that the lower safety level now allows for)GǪ GǪand everyone wins (kind of): people are effectively more secure; that security is player-made; more combat options are available for the pirates; and more variety, choice and planning is available to all. The design flaw is in the increased security, which gives the wrong signals to the victims and which lock attackers into a single tactic, and how these two then keep reinforcing themselves.
I wish I could give this more likes. I wish I could paste this on walls everywhere.
I'd love to be doing other forms of ******* with other people than safaris and suicide ganks. Seriously. Fights would be ******* excellent, but there's a whole buffet of **** I'd love to be doing to people but has been nerfed and nerfed and nerfed again. But these is the tools I am reduced to. If you don't like people like me suicide ganking you or awoxing you, then give us something else interesting to do.
Or, as my father once told me 'Son, you can only **** with the **** god gave you.' |
Cipher Jones
341
|
Posted - 2012.03.04 00:21:00 -
[113] - Quote
Serene Repose wrote:Suicide missions of any sort should be a last resort. The gain should accrue to a general benefit to whom the operative represents, but the operative should gain no benefit from the act. An example from history would be Japan's lack of anti-tank landmines. To overcome this, they placed soldiers in chameoflaged holes on roads, with a howitzer shell and a hammer. Tanks drives over hole. Soldier hits shell with hammer. Tank disabled or destroyed.
The victim loses something. The Japanese army gains only in not having to face the tank. The soldier loses everything but the supposed appreciation of a grateful nation. Don't go squawking about this isn't real life. Take the idea to another extreme in EVE. I suicide gank a station, my corp salvages and loots the station, which spews all the contents of all the players with cargo holds in that station. The salvage and loot would pay for a hundred more suicide ships. A corp would be limited only by time.
This puts me in mind of when ship prices fell beneath insurance payout amounts. You could actually make ISK (remember?) by buying ships and SD-ing them for the insurance payout. In a world without rules there would seem to be no problem with this. However, when you want an internal calibration of values, this would be seen as a bulge in the form of the economic ideal.
The other major point would be if you can suicide gank for significant profit to the ganker, there's no point in anyone doing anything else in the game - chokepoint - fundamental design flaw.
I totally agree. When you attack someone in Hisec and they concord your ship, its not suicide however. The pilot(s) running the op don't lose their life, they lose their ship.
04:25:37 Notify Cipher Jones, criminals are not welcome here. Leave now or be destroyed. |
D'Kelle
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
15
|
Posted - 2012.03.04 11:39:00 -
[114] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Ladie Harlot wrote:Can I get a translation of whatever this is into English? GÇ£Goons are meanGÇ¥. Thank you for that. Its our communal duty to aid the uneducated and illiterate :) |
Orion GUardian
120
|
Posted - 2012.03.04 13:55:00 -
[115] - Quote
You know? You really need just ONE very very true statement and take it to your heart:
Stop being stupid in Highsec and try to be as cautious as nullsec dwellers are:
-> Get into an alliance, or at least a corp -> Set standings to known suicide gankers to -10, same for anyone who would be your enemy in any way -> Set up a channel "Intel" -> If you see a "red" in local: Tell your mates in" intel" -> If a red enters system with you mining ie: Get safe till he leaves or go to another system! -> ??? -> Profit, you got your own intel channel, know where threats are, can avoid them and prevent being suicided
DO NOT BE STUPID and transport valuables in easily gankable ships! If LOSING a ship or a fleet of ships just to get a chance to loot it and MAKE A PROFIT then why wouldn't anyone suice it?
DO NOT BE STUPID = BE SAFE! |
Bumblefck
Kerensky Initiatives
2914
|
Posted - 2012.03.04 15:50:00 -
[116] - Quote
Atticus Fynch wrote:Well, I read a lot about "carebear tears" yet there is nothing to incite "pirate tears" in EVE. Seems kind'a one-sided. You are either predator or prey in EVE and the predators have the upper hand.
I think that is were the balance is lacking.
Oh, really? Pirates whine about neutral RR, wardec mechanics, etc etc. This thread is just a thinly-veiled cheese and whine fest about how CCP won't protect your self-entitled carebear lifestyle.
---- CONCORD arrested two n00bs yesterday, one was drinking battery acid, the other was eating fireworks. They charged one and let the other one off. |
Nick Bison
Bison Industrial Inc Thundering Herd
14
|
Posted - 2012.03.04 16:07:00 -
[117] - Quote
Opertone wrote:IMHO sec status can not be gained by killing NPCs.
Sec status regain - mining in a correctional facility. You'll love care and bears, you'll adapt to society better. Work brings mind in order. People may only volunteer to enter corfac to repay debts to society. Otherwise they never get sec status back.
Awesome troll! +1 |
Scien Inkunen
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
16
|
Posted - 2012.03.04 17:24:00 -
[118] - Quote
Atticus Fynch wrote:After reading the thread on why people suicide gank, the obvious answer..."because they can"...doesnt really address the question.
Apparently there are advantages and disadvantages involved in doing so.
The question here is, currently with present day EVE mechanics, do the advantages outweigh the disadvantages? And if so how can it be better balanced so as to discourage it.
Your thoughts/ideas?
Because almost everything is allowed and nobody gives an s**t - it so human, isn't it? Read the "Fart file" and you will understand the meaning of life ! |
Cain Blazed
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
1
|
Posted - 2012.03.04 17:36:00 -
[119] - Quote
While i dont mind ganking happening and such. I do feel alot of potential new eve gamers are lost since they easly loose their new mining/industrial ship. Its maybe to easy to kill them?? |
Sharptons Hare
Hedion University Amarr Empire
1
|
Posted - 2012.03.04 18:09:00 -
[120] - Quote
I miss my goats. |
|
|
|
|
Pages: 1 2 3 [4] 5 :: one page |
First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |