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Atticus Fynch
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
1
|
Posted - 2011.12.16 21:05:00 -
[1] - Quote
After reading the thread on why people suicide gank, the obvious answer..."because they can"...doesnt really address the question.
Apparently there are advantages and disadvantages involved in doing so.
The question here is, currently with present day EVE mechanics, do the advantages outweigh the disadvantages? And if so how can it be better balanced so as to discourage it.
Your thoughts/ideas? |
Ninyania alCladdyth
McLuvin AstroDynamics
3
|
Posted - 2011.12.16 21:06:00 -
[2] - Quote
Why do you feel it needs to be discouraged? |
Atticus Fynch
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
1
|
Posted - 2011.12.16 21:08:00 -
[3] - Quote
Ninyania alCladdyth wrote:Why do you feel it needs to be discouraged?
Good point. But it does bring up the question is it normal gameplay or just CCP sanctioned griefing?
I guess it depends who you talk to and what your idea of "game" is.
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Feligast
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
479
|
Posted - 2011.12.16 21:08:00 -
[4] - Quote
Edit: Why do you feel it's griefing? |
Minister of Death
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
24
|
Posted - 2011.12.16 21:10:00 -
[5] - Quote
Atticus Fynch wrote: the obvious answer..."because they can"...doesnt really address the question.
how does "because they can" not address the question?
are you daft?
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Ninyania alCladdyth
McLuvin AstroDynamics
3
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Posted - 2011.12.16 21:12:00 -
[6] - Quote
IMO, outlaws (-5 sec & lower) should be freely pod-killable with no repercussions from Concord. While this won't "fix the problem", the constant stream of high-ISK-value clone losses and/or SP losses might discourage the behavior... assuming one of us "carebears" has the balls to lock & shoot a pod.
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FuryX1013
United Space Republic Research ORPHANS OF EVE
1
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Posted - 2011.12.16 21:13:00 -
[7] - Quote
While I do not condone it or condemn it .
The answer to your question is this is a sandbox where your choices and actions have consequences. |
Ninyania alCladdyth
McLuvin AstroDynamics
3
|
Posted - 2011.12.16 21:14:00 -
[8] - Quote
Minister of Death wrote:Atticus Fynch wrote: the obvious answer..."because they can"...doesnt really address the question. how does "because they can" not address the question? are you daft?
They don't do it "because they can" - they do it because of the chance of a lol-worthy killmail they can share with their peers for bragging rights. |
Pavel Bidermann
whips chains and ballgags Care Factor
53
|
Posted - 2011.12.16 21:15:00 -
[9] - Quote
more importantly, why is there a need to continue to discuss this? Not sigling you out on this, I too am just asking. High sec has always had gankers, griefers, pirates and war decs. Not to forget the ever-present new guy who doesn't understand the rules of engagment and just randomly attacks somebody and then starts whining about why the po-po shot his ship. No matter how badly null sec wants to show that they are *awesome*, high sec has more challenges, game style options and more ships killed on a daily basis than null sec. As I keep pointing out though, that's the players' own fault.
Now that the null sec wars are over, there is little to do in EVE. At least that true for null sec pilots anyway. This is how they pass the time. This, and wondering why people don't think they're cool.
I guess the real question would be.....Is there a reason to log in? Probably not. |
Atticus Fynch
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
1
|
Posted - 2011.12.16 21:23:00 -
[10] - Quote
Ninyania alCladdyth wrote:Minister of Death wrote:Atticus Fynch wrote: the obvious answer..."because they can"...doesnt really address the question. how does "because they can" not address the question? are you daft? They don't do it "because they can" - they do it because of the chance of a lol-worthy killmail they can share with their peers for bragging rights.
So there is an out of game advantage that being "bragging rights" even if it costs you sec status, isk and a ship. Not much of an in-game advantage though.
I like you idea about pod killing outlaws. I would like to see that implemented sometime. |
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Tribalic One
Suddenly Ninjas Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service
0
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Posted - 2011.12.16 21:25:00 -
[11] - Quote
Smell tears, I do.
I honestly don't understand why this is such a debate... It's not as if there are massive gank squadrons flying around ganking every hulk or freighter on undock. We are all playing the same game right?! Every ship I undock I know is at risk of being lost.
"Don't fly it, if you can't lose it."
- Some EvE Guy |
Krios Ahzek
Juvenis Iratus
307
|
Posted - 2011.12.16 21:26:00 -
[12] - Quote
Atticus Fynch wrote:After reading the thread on why people suicide gank, the obvious answer..."because they can"...doesnt really address the question.
Apparently there are advantages and disadvantages involved in doing so.
The question here is, currently with present day EVE mechanics, do the advantages outweigh the disadvantages? And if so how can it be better balanced so as to discourage it.
Your thoughts/ideas?
Pro: You gank someone. Con: Your ship is destroyed Do not take me for some conjurer of cheap tricks. |
Doc Fury
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
13
|
Posted - 2011.12.16 21:34:00 -
[13] - Quote
A housewife from Encino Whose husband's on the golf course With his book of rules Breaks and makes a 'U' and idles back, To take a second look at you You flex your rod Fish takes the hook Sweet vodka and tobacco in her breath Another number in your little black book
The accumulated filth of all their sex and murder will foam up about their waists and all the ho's and politicians will look up and shout 'Save us!' and I'll look down, and whisper 'no.' |
Jenn Makanen
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
99
|
Posted - 2011.12.16 21:40:00 -
[14] - Quote
Believe it or not, there are plenty of people who suicide gank for profit. Good enough reason?
It's risky, due to the drop rate, and not quite as profitable now as it used to be, due to the concord insurance change, but it's still worth it. |
Minister of Death
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
24
|
Posted - 2011.12.16 21:42:00 -
[15] - Quote
Ninyania alCladdyth wrote:Minister of Death wrote:Atticus Fynch wrote: the obvious answer..."because they can"...doesnt really address the question. how does "because they can" not address the question? are you daft? They don't do it "because they can" - they do it because of the chance of a lol-worthy killmail they can share with their peers for bragging rights.
1. i think you are wrong 2. i think you cannot prove that in any way, shape, or form 3. i cannot fathom how you can even make this assertion |
IGNATIUS HOOD
Zephyr Corp V.A.S.T.
87
|
Posted - 2011.12.16 21:50:00 -
[16] - Quote
Motivation is where you find it. Never underestimate the lengths that a man will go to to punish someone he deems worthy of the treatment. This stands +100% in EVE.
For EVE is a harsh mistress, and for most death is the ultimate teacher. Thankfully its just a game and we can learn from our mistakes. 'perfer et obdura; dolor hic tibi proderit olim'
Be patient and tough; some day this pain will be useful to you. |
Atticus Fynch
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
1
|
Posted - 2011.12.16 21:51:00 -
[17] - Quote
Well, I read a lot about "carebear tears" yet there is nothing to incite "pirate tears" in EVE. Seems kind'a one-sided. You are either predator or prey in EVE and the predators have the upper hand.
I think that is were the balance is lacking. |
Opertone
Signal 7 The Jagged Alliance
56
|
Posted - 2011.12.16 21:57:00 -
[18] - Quote
IMHO sec status can not be gained by killing NPCs.
Sec status regain - mining in a correctional facility. You'll love care and bears, you'll adapt to society better. Work brings mind in order. People may only volunteer to enter corfac to repay debts to society. Otherwise they never get sec status back. |
Atticus Fynch
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
1
|
Posted - 2011.12.16 22:00:00 -
[19] - Quote
Opertone wrote:IMHO sec status can not be gained by killing NPCs.
Sec status regain - mining in a correctional facility. You'll love care and bears, you'll adapt to society better. Work brings mind in order. People may only volunteer to enter corfac to repay debts to society. Otherwise they never get sec status back.
EVE JAIL!!!
Love it!!
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ACE McFACE
Acetech Systems
141
|
Posted - 2011.12.16 22:04:00 -
[20] - Quote
Atticus Fynch wrote:Well, I read a lot about "carebear tears" yet there is nothing to incite "pirate tears" in EVE. Seems kind'a one-sided. You are either predator or prey in EVE and the predators have the upper hand.
I think that is were the balance is lacking.
The 'prey' could always tank their hulks, or not cart around 1b of stuff in a T1 Industrial, and there have been plenty of pirate tears threads. For example: Whaa Whaa why don't I get insurance from my ship being destroyed by Concord anymore!?!?
Assuming by pirate tears you mean ganker tears
Real men wear goggles and a Navy shirt! |
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Tribalic One
Suddenly Ninjas Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service
1
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Posted - 2011.12.16 22:08:00 -
[21] - Quote
Atticus Fynch wrote:Well, I read a lot about "carebear tears" yet there is nothing to incite "pirate tears" in EVE. Seems kind'a one-sided. You are either predator or prey in EVE and the predators have the upper hand.
I think that is were the balance is lacking.
Every carebear has the ability to sharpen its teeth and defend its self. Also, the shear number of 's to 's could make up for the lack of PvP experience. There just is no organization in the carebear realm, IMO.
So it's not game mechanics that have the prey at a disadvantage, it's the "deer in the headlights" stance the prey takes. |
IGNATIUS HOOD
Zephyr Corp V.A.S.T.
88
|
Posted - 2011.12.16 22:11:00 -
[22] - Quote
Atticus Fynch wrote:Well, I read a lot about "carebear tears" yet there is nothing to incite "pirate tears" in EVE. Seems kind'a one-sided. You are either predator or prey in EVE and the predators have the upper hand.
I think that is were the balance is lacking.
The bears right the balance by fleeting up and defending each other. Also simply not AFK mining, watching local, gathering intel on gankers and paying attention to where they are would be a step in the right direction. You can't really stop someone determined to kill you regardless of cost but you can use the same resources he uses to find you to instead find him. Also would it really kill the bears to fit a few frigs and give these guys something to think about. Frigs are cheap and enough of them could really do something.
Also, whats stopping the bears from getting more organized into bigger corps, larger alliances, and war deccing the Pirate Corps behind all of this? Is it fear? Like I said before, Frigs are cheap. 'perfer et obdura; dolor hic tibi proderit olim'
Be patient and tough; some day this pain will be useful to you. |
Mag's
the united Negative Ten.
3200
|
Posted - 2011.12.16 22:12:00 -
[23] - Quote
Atticus Fynch wrote:Ninyania alCladdyth wrote:Why do you feel it needs to be discouraged? Good point. But it does bring up the question is it normal gameplay or just CCP sanctioned griefing? I guess it depends who you talk to and what your idea of "game" is. You didn't answer, as to why you think it should be discouraged?
Also it is CCP sanctioned, it is not griefing and therefore normal game play.
Ninyania alCladdyth wrote:IMO, outlaws (-5 sec & lower) should be freely pod-killable with no repercussions from Concord. While this won't "fix the problem", the constant stream of high-ISK-value clone losses and/or SP losses might discourage the behavior... assuming one of us "carebears" has the balls to lock & shoot a pod.
I thought anyone -5 and below was pod-killable without concord intervention, or has this changed?
CCP Zulu..... Forcing players to dock at the captain's quarters is a form of what we actually wanted to get through, which is making Incarna a seamless part of the EVE Online experience. |
Generals4
Caldari State
553
|
Posted - 2011.12.16 22:14:00 -
[24] - Quote
Ironically when mechanics allow "pirate tears" they whine and call "hax". Like the wardec shield "system" , apparently a blatant abuse of mechanics according to some "pirates". Or being able to kick corp members in space which ensures hilarity if that corp member was a ninja griefer who just joined to kill corp members.
Using the game mechanics in an anti-pirate way = ebil/wrong/fail Using game mechanics in an anti-carebear way = sooo tough/badass/win/trololo
Personally i enjoy both as i don't mind either and i get to enjoy watching both sides whine like little babies. -Death is nothing, but to live defeated and inglorious is to die daily. |
IGNATIUS HOOD
Zephyr Corp V.A.S.T.
88
|
Posted - 2011.12.16 22:16:00 -
[25] - Quote
Generals4 wrote:Ironically when mechanics allow "pirate tears" they whine and call "hax". Like the wardec shield "system" , apparently a blatant abuse of mechanics according to some "pirates". Or being able to kick corp members in space which ensures hilarity if that corp member was a ninja griefer who just joined to kill corp members.
Using the game mechanics in an anti-pirate way = ebil/wrong/fail Using game mechanics in an anti-carebear way = sooo tough/badass/win/trololo
Personally i enjoy both as i don't mind either and i get to enjoy watching both sides whine like little babies.
You and I Sirrah, we see the same things I think. 'perfer et obdura; dolor hic tibi proderit olim'
Be patient and tough; some day this pain will be useful to you. |
Xolve
Epidemic.
181
|
Posted - 2011.12.16 22:18:00 -
[26] - Quote
Ahh every day, another thread about the same thing, suicide ganking isn't going anywhere, It isn't 'griefing'.. .and if CCP didn't approve of it.. why the hell did they give us Battlecruisers with Battleship sized weapons? Oh- you thought they were for running missions
Mag's wrote:Ninyania alCladdyth wrote:IMO, outlaws (-5 sec & lower) should be freely pod-killable with no repercussions from Concord. While this won't "fix the problem", the constant stream of high-ISK-value clone losses and/or SP losses might discourage the behavior... assuming one of us "carebears" has the balls to lock & shoot a pod.
I thought anyone -5 and below was pod-killable without concord intervention, or has this changed?
They are still pod killable, some people just havn't sorted out what the color 'red' means in EvE yet. You can shoot their ships, you can shoot their pods. Regular people that go GCC with about -5 sec status can have their ships shot at by anyone near by, but their pod is still protected by CONCORD. Lady Spank for C&P Moderator.
|
Mag's
the united Negative Ten.
3202
|
Posted - 2011.12.16 22:22:00 -
[27] - Quote
Xolve wrote:Ahh every day, another thread about the same thing, suicide ganking isn't going anywhere, It isn't 'griefing'.. .and if CCP didn't approve of it.. why the hell did they give us Battlecruisers with Battleship sized weapons? Oh- you thought they were for running missions Mag's wrote:Ninyania alCladdyth wrote:IMO, outlaws (-5 sec & lower) should be freely pod-killable with no repercussions from Concord. While this won't "fix the problem", the constant stream of high-ISK-value clone losses and/or SP losses might discourage the behavior... assuming one of us "carebears" has the balls to lock & shoot a pod.
I thought anyone -5 and below was pod-killable without concord intervention, or has this changed? They are still pod killable, some people just havn't sorted out what the color 'red' means in EvE yet. You can shoot their ships, you can shoot their pods. Regular people that go GCC with about -5 sec status can have their ships shot at by anyone near by, but their pod is still protected by CONCORD. Ahh so it's just another person complaining about game mechanics, they have absolutely no clue about. Thanks bud.
CCP Zulu..... Forcing players to dock at the captain's quarters is a form of what we actually wanted to get through, which is making Incarna a seamless part of the EVE Online experience. |
Ninyania alCladdyth
McLuvin AstroDynamics
4
|
Posted - 2011.12.16 22:23:00 -
[28] - Quote
. |
Generals4
Caldari State
554
|
Posted - 2011.12.16 22:23:00 -
[29] - Quote
IGNATIUS HOOD wrote:Generals4 wrote:Ironically when mechanics allow "pirate tears" they whine and call "hax". Like the wardec shield "system" , apparently a blatant abuse of mechanics according to some "pirates". Or being able to kick corp members in space which ensures hilarity if that corp member was a ninja griefer who just joined to kill corp members.
Using the game mechanics in an anti-pirate way = ebil/wrong/fail Using game mechanics in an anti-carebear way = sooo tough/badass/win/trololo
Personally i enjoy both as i don't mind either and i get to enjoy watching both sides whine like little babies. You and I Sirrah, we see the same things I think.
Yeah, i don't see why people complain that much, this is a sandbox, sandboxes are supposed to have few rules, if people find ingenious ways to grief or protect themselves, more power to them. There are equally as many ways to get back at them anyway. -Death is nothing, but to live defeated and inglorious is to die daily. |
Atticus Fynch
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
1
|
Posted - 2011.12.16 22:25:00 -
[30] - Quote
Ninyania alCladdyth wrote:.
Im not too clear on this either. |
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IGNATIUS HOOD
Zephyr Corp V.A.S.T.
90
|
Posted - 2011.12.16 22:25:00 -
[31] - Quote
ACE McFACE wrote:Atticus Fynch wrote:Well, I read a lot about "carebear tears" yet there is nothing to incite "pirate tears" in EVE. Seems kind'a one-sided. You are either predator or prey in EVE and the predators have the upper hand.
I think that is were the balance is lacking. The 'prey' could always tank their hulks, or not cart around 1b of stuff in a T1 Industrial, and there have been plenty of pirate tears threads. For example: Whaa Whaa why don't I get insurance from my ship being destroyed by Concord anymore!?!? Assuming by pirate tears you mean ganker tears
ACE, popping someone for a case of stupid is not ganking, it would be a sin to do anything else becuase some lessons are expensive. Those are the best kind in my opinion. I only have issue with jerks being jerks for the sake of being jerks.
'perfer et obdura; dolor hic tibi proderit olim'
Be patient and tough; some day this pain will be useful to you. |
Mag's
the united Negative Ten.
3202
|
Posted - 2011.12.16 22:28:00 -
[32] - Quote
Atticus Fynch wrote:Ninyania alCladdyth wrote:. Im not too clear on this either. We as -5 and below understand that having such a low sec status, opens us up to being shootable anywhere any time. This includes pods. One of the reasons we run through empire in pods, isn't due to them not being shootable, but simply because they insta warp.
CCP Zulu..... Forcing players to dock at the captain's quarters is a form of what we actually wanted to get through, which is making Incarna a seamless part of the EVE Online experience. |
Xolve
Epidemic.
185
|
Posted - 2011.12.16 23:05:00 -
[33] - Quote
Mag's wrote:We as -5 and below understand that having such a low sec status, opens us up to being shootable anywhere any time. This includes pods. One of the reasons we run through empire in pods, isn't due to them not being shootable, but simply because they insta warp.
We still fall victim to that 'landing short' phenomenon though... Lady Spank for C&P Moderator.
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How2FoldSoup
Hull Tanking Elitists
8
|
Posted - 2011.12.16 23:19:00 -
[34] - Quote
Atticus Fynch wrote:Well, I read a lot about "carebear tears" yet there is nothing to incite "pirate tears" in EVE. Seems kind'a one-sided. You are either predator or prey in EVE and the predators have the upper hand.
I think that is were the balance is lacking.
Lucky for us Eve is a sandbox and you can become whatever you want so the "predators" are safe forever.
oh wait... |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
2083
|
Posted - 2011.12.16 23:19:00 -
[35] - Quote
Generals4 wrote:Ironically when mechanics allow "pirate tears" they whine and call "hax". Like the wardec shield "system" , apparently a blatant abuse of mechanics according to some "pirates". No, you're confusing two rather different things here.
The problem with allowing decshields is that it renders certain highsec property completely safe that shouldn't be safe GÇö most notably POSes GÇö which means that, through poorly thought-through (and completely unnecessary) policy, they've broken a couple of rather important gameplay mechanics and as a result broken a part of the industrial economy.
Pirates don't give a crap about wardecs; proper industrialists do. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
If not, contact Miss DSA to shed your wardecs. |
Fallenlassen
0
|
Posted - 2011.12.16 23:23:00 -
[36] - Quote
Tippia wrote:
Pirates don't give a crap about wardecs; proper industrialists do.
and high sec mercenaries, griefers, eve-uni.. what?
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
2083
|
Posted - 2011.12.16 23:28:00 -
[37] - Quote
Fallenlassen wrote:and high sec mercenaries, griefers, eve-uni.. what? Mercenaries don't care about POSes GÇö their employers (who wanted that POS killed) do. Griefers don't care about POSes (too much work, no grief, not worth getting banned over). EVE Uni might like it, but for the exact reason it's a very bad change.
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
If not, contact Miss DSA to shed your wardecs. |
yopparai
ASTARTES CORP
5
|
Posted - 2011.12.16 23:29:00 -
[38] - Quote
Atticus you sir are a F*gg*t & not the good kind.
You know the ones I'm talking about |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
2083
|
Posted - 2011.12.16 23:33:00 -
[39] - Quote
yopparai wrote:Atticus you sir are a F*gg*t & not the good kind. You know the ones I'm talking about So, he's more of a bassoon? GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
If not, contact Miss DSA to shed your wardecs. |
Crystal Liche
ACME Mineral and Gas
48
|
Posted - 2011.12.17 01:06:00 -
[40] - Quote
Atticus Fynch wrote:After reading the thread on why people suicide gank, the obvious answer..."because they can"...doesnt really address the question.
Apparently there are advantages and disadvantages involved in doing so.
The question here is, currently with present day EVE mechanics, do the advantages outweigh the disadvantages? And if so how can it be better balanced so as to discourage it.
Your thoughts/ideas?
Pros to suicide gank?
I have no idea, to me it doesn't even look fun.
I think you have to be like a 14 year old boy, to me it has that "smash stuff" aura that little boys like about the age right before they discover girls.
I guess if a person is bored?
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Samillian
Trojan Trolls Controlled Chaos
61
|
Posted - 2011.12.17 01:13:00 -
[41] - Quote
Of the few HiSec gankers I know a minority are true pirate and do it for profit, they are well organised and focused on choosing a good profitable target the rest tend to be bored or a bit to timid to take a fight with a target that shoots back.
Make of that what you will. |
Jita Alt666
659
|
Posted - 2011.12.17 01:17:00 -
[42] - Quote
Opertone wrote:IMHO sec status can not be gained by killing NPCs.
Sec status regain - mining in a correctional facility. You'll love care and bears, you'll adapt to society better. Work brings mind in order. People may only volunteer to enter corfac to repay debts to society. Otherwise they never get sec status back.
That is essentially the same as running missions or killing NPC pirates to lift sec status. The issue is that clever players have figured out how to raise their sec status quicker than CCP originally intended for it to rise.
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Bo Bojangles
Interstellar eXodus BricK sQuAD.
6
|
Posted - 2011.12.17 01:35:00 -
[43] - Quote
Likewise, sec status falls far more than CCP originally intended for it to fall. |
Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1345
|
Posted - 2011.12.17 01:41:00 -
[44] - Quote
Mag's wrote:Ninyania alCladdyth wrote:IMO, outlaws (-5 sec & lower) should be freely pod-killable with no repercussions from Concord. While this won't "fix the problem", the constant stream of high-ISK-value clone losses and/or SP losses might discourage the behavior... assuming one of us "carebears" has the balls to lock & shoot a pod.
I thought anyone -5 and below was pod-killable without concord intervention, or has this changed?
They are. |
Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1345
|
Posted - 2011.12.17 01:44:00 -
[45] - Quote
My idea is that suicide ganks on NPC corp characters should grant a significantly lower sec status hit than suicide ganks on player corp members. Mining while in an NPC corp makes you immune to wardecs, the 11% tax doesn't apply to you - NPC corps should not be "shelters." |
Ocih
Space Mermaids
16
|
Posted - 2011.12.17 01:47:00 -
[46] - Quote
Pro's do it in Rens Con's do it in Jita |
Keno Skir
39
|
Posted - 2011.12.17 02:46:00 -
[47] - Quote
I think it might just be a good thing to allow pod killing for very low sec criminals, might add some more depth to the criminal aspect of the game. The Apostle : I want a kangeroo Captain Kirk : Silly Austrians Sarmatiko : Let me guess: you're from US? Captain Kirk : Yeah Riverside IA - why? |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
2083
|
Posted - 2011.12.17 02:53:00 -
[48] - Quote
Keno Skir wrote:I think it might just be a good thing to allow pod killing for very low sec criminals, might add some more depth to the criminal aspect of the game. No, that doesn't seem to do much difference. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
If not, contact Miss DSA to shed your wardecs. |
Lady Spank
GET OUT NASTY FACE
514
|
Posted - 2011.12.17 02:57:00 -
[49] - Quote
Tribalic One wrote:Smell tears, I do. I honestly don't understand why this is such a debate... It's not as if there are massive gank squadrons flying around ganking every hulk or freighter on undock. We are all playing the same game right?! Every ship I undock I know is at risk of being lost. "Don't fly it, if you can't lose it." - Some EvE Guy
If I couldn't lose it, I would fly it all the time. (a¦á_a¦â) ~ http://getoutnastyface.blogspot.com/ ~ (a¦á_a¦â) |
Crumplecorn
Eve Cluster Explorations
41
|
Posted - 2011.12.17 03:03:00 -
[50] - Quote
Atticus Fynch wrote:Good point. But it does bring up the question is it normal gameplay or just CCP sanctioned griefing? The fact that it is CCP santioned means it is not griefing, and thus it is normal gameplay.
Generals4 wrote:Ironically when mechanics allow "pirate tears" they whine and call "hax". Like the wardec shield "system" , apparently a blatant abuse of mechanics according to some "pirates". I think what you meant to say here is that when CCP call something an exploit, pirates call it an exploit too, but when CCP say something is ok, carebears call it an exploit/griefing anyway. Funny how that works. |
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Mors Sanctitatis
Death of Virtue MeatSausage EXPRESS
25
|
Posted - 2011.12.17 04:02:00 -
[51] - Quote
Atticus Fynch wrote:After reading the thread on why people suicide gank, the obvious answer..."because they can"...doesnt really address the question.
Apparently there are advantages and disadvantages involved in doing so.
The question here is, currently with present day EVE mechanics, do the advantages outweigh the disadvantages? And if so how can it be better balanced so as to discourage it.
Your thoughts/ideas?
So, just in case you were really looking for an answer, here goes:
There are a few key groups of players that suicide gank and they are focused around various ideologies; here's a quick breakdown of what I think those are, and an in depth review of the most important ones:
[in no particular order of importance]
1. Players who do it for profit. Pirates essentially. 2. Players who do it for "the lulz". Because they can. 3. Players who are attempting to control resources with no other tool to do so. (killing NPC Corp miners in high sec ice belts for example) 4. Players who are trying to disrupt RMT and botting operations.
Hmm, that was a lot shorter than I thought.
Let's address the most trivial reasons first (in order of magnitude/importance, least to greatest): Players who do it for fun- enough said. Some players just like to annoy other players "because they can". Players who attempt to disrupt RMT operations. Do they really think they're changing anything on a larger scale? I doubt it. Players who are attempting to control resources with no other recourse- this is the first "real" reason here, but it's still less important overall than the best/final reason: PLAYER PROFIT.
Some more detail on why players suicide gank for profit:
Basically, it's CCP's fault that suicide ganking is as prevalent as it is. CCP has gone to *great* lengths to deter suicide ganking, with little real effect, and indeed it has only continued to grow in popularity. The reason why is simple: CCP is doing a terrible job of making "carebear" wealth accessible to PVP centric players.
Players, and specifically pirates, always go where the money is. "Back in the day", there was little suicide ganking (I can remember chasing Iteron Vs fitted with Local Expanders worth over a hundred million ISK in expanders alone lol!). The reason being is because the vast majority of the wealth was in 0.0 and before Warp To Zero (WTZ) was implemented, there was plenty of opportunity to attack ships while traveling. Oh, did I mention stupidity like Jump Bridges and Jump Freighters didn't exist either? If you wanted to haul massive amounts of resources anywhere you had to engage in huge freighter ops that took a lot of coordination and involved a lot of risk. Good times. Then CCP introduced WTZ and further streamlined (read: removed all need for) logistics.
All that the above changes managed to do was reduce the window of opportunity for players (and pirates in particular) to access other player's wealth via PVP. Currently, the only reasonably reliable way to do so now is through suicide ganking in high sec space. The killers will go where the money is. Since CCP insists on allowing all the hyper rich carebears to live out their entire existence in high sec, the hunters have to adapt. And adapt they have.
CCP has *REPEATEDLY* nerfed the process by doing everything from decreasing Concord response times to adding in stupid pop-up windows to annoy and deter would-be high sec pirates. Clearly it hasn't worked.
Want to actually decrease suicide ganking? Push the same ultra-concentrated wealth into an area where it's more readily accessible by PVP players and you'll see a rapid decrease in the number of suicide ganks. Otherwise, it will only continue to escalate. I'm a pirate in a pirate's body. |
Federigo Mondial
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
8
|
Posted - 2011.12.17 04:43:00 -
[52] - Quote
If you can't afford to lose it, don't fly it. |
Phizban
The Needs Of The Few The Needs Of The Few Many
11
|
Posted - 2011.12.17 05:50:00 -
[53] - Quote
Atticus Fynch wrote:Well, I read a lot about "carebear tears" yet there is nothing to incite "pirate tears" in EVE. Seems kind'a one-sided. You are either predator or prey in EVE and the predators have the upper hand.
I think that is were the balance is lacking.
Liberal D-Bag spotted! |
Drachiel
Mercury LLC
0
|
Posted - 2011.12.17 05:59:00 -
[54] - Quote
It's fun.
BOOM! ZAP! PEW!
CONCORDOKKENED!
*tears*
ITT: Nerf fun.
|
Generals4
Caldari State
555
|
Posted - 2011.12.17 09:08:00 -
[55] - Quote
Crumplecorn wrote:[ Generals4 wrote:Ironically when mechanics allow "pirate tears" they whine and call "hax". Like the wardec shield "system" , apparently a blatant abuse of mechanics according to some "pirates". I think what you meant to say here is that when CCP call something an exploit, pirates call it an exploit too, but when CCP say something is ok, carebears call it an exploit/griefing anyway. Funny how that works.
Unless i've missed it CCP said it was perfectly fine and the pirates were like "nonono, it was an exploit and it still should be!". -Death is nothing, but to live defeated and inglorious is to die daily. |
Destination SkillQueue
Are We There Yet
200
|
Posted - 2011.12.17 09:42:00 -
[56] - Quote
Generals4 wrote:Crumplecorn wrote:[ Generals4 wrote:Ironically when mechanics allow "pirate tears" they whine and call "hax". Like the wardec shield "system" , apparently a blatant abuse of mechanics according to some "pirates". I think what you meant to say here is that when CCP call something an exploit, pirates call it an exploit too, but when CCP say something is ok, carebears call it an exploit/griefing anyway. Funny how that works. Unless i've missed it CCP said it was perfectly fine and the pirates were like "nonono, it was an exploit and it still should be!".
Propably because it was an exploit and understandably so, since allowing it breaks the entire system and gives practical immunity to certain highsec assets. The system went from somewhat working thanks to GM enforcement to being horribly broken like the current bounty system. So while there certainly have been tears about it, it's basicly just players trying to get CCP to properly fix the system, instead of giving up on it and abandoning yet another mechanic in a broken state. |
Ludi Burek
The Player Haters Corp
9
|
Posted - 2011.12.17 11:26:00 -
[57] - Quote
Mors Sanctitatis wrote: spot on
Very well explained. Pitty that not a single bear will read it with an open mind because bad people are bad and how dare they play one of the pillar roles in this game.
To me high sec suiciding for profit is the truest form of piracy there is. Plundering the shipping lanes and all that.
And suiciding random people is just damn fun when you can't be arsed playing long or can't make time. Or simply can't be arsed with the tedium in every other awsum, honorable form of PvP.
All that just doesn't fit into the little closed minds that just want to do their grind and expect everyone to act like little npcs and any act of interference with their game is griefing.
Onto the other OP point, cons of suicide ganking...listening to dumb people explaining why it "should be removed" and even dumber people that go out of their way to call high sec pirates cowards. It can't be that they just do the job they want and don't give a crap about what YOUR ideals are. |
Solstice Project
Cult of Personality
287
|
Posted - 2011.12.17 11:27:00 -
[58] - Quote
From an occiasional bounty hunters POV ...
Pros of suicide ganking ...
... red flashy ships to shoot. ... red flashy pods to shoot. ... red flashy ships that get CONCORDed and reveal red flashy pods with bounties to collect.
Cons of suicide ganking ...
... a severe secloss after shooting a ship that got CONCORDed, because the bounty pod isn't free to shoot.
In my thread, where i asked to make pods with GCC legal targets, CCP SoundWave approved of that and wrote he will bring this into the game. It's not much of a change, but it helps people like me big time and it makes sense, too.
Sadly, there's no "when" to that, so i have to keep seccing up every time i shoot a pod with a high bounty that's not flashy ... Inappropriate signature removed. Spitfire |
Prince Kobol
101
|
Posted - 2011.12.17 13:16:00 -
[59] - Quote
There are many ways of limiting the chances that you will be a victim of a gank however a lot of people don't use them and then come crying on the forums that they were ganked.
Tank your hulks, you can get 25k EHP and still have a mining output of over 4000m3 per cycle.
Spend some time on the forums and you will find the a good number of corps who specialize in suicide ganking.. set them up in your overview to show as red.
As for haulers, you do not need to fly with BPO's for billions of isk in your badger for crying out load.
Use a frig fitted for speed.
If you are carrying cargo worth a lot of isk then tank your ship and don't AFK Travel.
Doing these simple things will limit the chances of you being ganked.
The majority of people who come crying on the forums that the were ganked deserved to be ganked because they were fly ****** fitted ships afk or were mining in a hulk with zero tank.
If you take precautions and are still then ganked then you can either put it down to experience and move on or fight back but for gods sakes stop coming here and crying about it trying to convince people that its griefing and should be banned |
Generals4
Caldari State
556
|
Posted - 2011.12.17 13:22:00 -
[60] - Quote
Quote:Propably because it was an exploit and understandably so, since allowing it breaks the entire system and gives practical immunity to certain highsec assets. The system went from somewhat working thanks to GM enforcement to being horribly broken like the current bounty system. So while there certainly have been tears about it, it's basicly just players trying to get CCP to properly fix the system, instead of giving up on it and abandoning yet another mechanic in a broken state.
But it doesn't give total immunity, you just have to spend a lot more money or use suicide ganking means. It's merely a use of mechanics to make it harder to be griefed. Just like using aggression mechanics in a dodgy way is a mean to make griefing easier. What bugs me is that using mechanics in dodgy ways to increase griefing is right while the opposite is somehow a "Gamebreaking exploit". And sure if CCP classifies it as an exploit than it is , but seeing as how the dec shield lost that status it isn't anymore and the whining is just as justified as the whining about any pro-griefing use of certain mechanics. It doesn't mean the mechanics cannot be changed in a way or an other but all the whining sometimes comes off as pathetic in my opinion. -Death is nothing, but to live defeated and inglorious is to die daily. |
|
Kalle Demos
Helix Protocol
3
|
Posted - 2011.12.17 13:49:00 -
[61] - Quote
Pros - Amarr, Caldari and Minmatar space are safe Cons - Gallente space isnt safe |
Scrindle Kavees
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
0
|
Posted - 2011.12.17 13:49:00 -
[62] - Quote
Before I stopped playing EVE a few years ago, we used to get masses of domis together and gank freighters in high sec as they jumped in from gates provided they had decent stuff in them.
Does this still go on? |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
2086
|
Posted - 2011.12.17 13:56:00 -
[63] - Quote
Generals4 wrote:But it doesn't give total immunity, you just have to spend a lot more money or use suicide ganking means. GǪgood luck suicide ganking a POS (and no, money will not help you). GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
If not, contact Miss DSA to shed your wardecs. |
Anela Cistine
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
97
|
Posted - 2011.12.17 14:00:00 -
[64] - Quote
Atticus Fynch wrote: And if so how can it be better balanced so as to discourage it.
Remove killmails. No killmails means no killboards, and therefore no epeen strokeing. No crowing over bad fits, or expensive implants. No killmails means no way to prove you killed anything, so no way to collect bounties, reimbursements, or goonsurance. Nothing would discourage ganking (and pvp in general) more than removing killmails.
Note: This is a bad idea and would be very bad for the game. But it would reduce ganking. |
Lady Spank
GET OUT NASTY FACE
528
|
Posted - 2011.12.17 16:28:00 -
[65] - Quote
I gank stuff for profit or because its mildly amusing. If I didn't Api verify my kills I wouldn't bother posting them. (a¦á_a¦â) ~ http://getoutnastyface.blogspot.com/ ~ (a¦á_a¦â) |
Max Khaos
Element 27 Intrepid Crossing
3
|
Posted - 2011.12.19 11:41:00 -
[66] - Quote
Its all about risk v reward.
Suicide ganking for no risk can only be defended by the people doing it or by people who haven't got a clue. |
Jaroslav Unwanted
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
138
|
Posted - 2011.12.19 12:01:00 -
[67] - Quote
Minister of Death wrote:Atticus Fynch wrote: the obvious answer..."because they can"...doesnt really address the question. how does "because they can" not address the question? are you daft?
human nature ? People are ****** ? or something like that.. |
Ladie Harlot
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1063
|
Posted - 2011.12.19 14:14:00 -
[68] - Quote
Max Khaos wrote:Its all about risk v reward.
Suicide ganking for no risk can only be defended by the people doing it or by people who haven't got a clue. No risk or no consequences? Risk isn't really a factor because if you suicide gank you *will* lose your ship.
The artist formerly known as Ladie Scarlet. |
Ghoest
31
|
Posted - 2011.12.19 14:19:00 -
[69] - Quote
pro - you ganked someone
con - you lost a ship
Did this really need a thread? Wherever You Went - Here You Are |
Ninyania alCladdyth
McLuvin AstroDynamics
5
|
Posted - 2011.12.19 15:20:00 -
[70] - Quote
Mag's wrote:Atticus Fynch wrote:Ninyania alCladdyth wrote:. Im not too clear on this either. We as -5 and below understand that having such a low sec status, opens us up to being shootable anywhere any time. This includes pods. One of the reasons we run through empire in pods, isn't due to them not being shootable, but simply because they insta warp.
Sorry for seeming so dense... I've been having a problem finding a clear-cut statement on whether or not Outlaw (-5 sec and lower) pods were "fair game" - every other thread I've searched out and read through made it sound like pod-kills always invoked a security status drop, and then de-evolved into carebear-vs-pirate flamewars before actually *answering the question*.
|
|
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
1456
|
Posted - 2011.12.19 15:26:00 -
[71] - Quote
Atticus Fynch wrote:Ninyania alCladdyth wrote:Why do you feel it needs to be discouraged? Good point. But it does bring up the question is it normal gameplay or just CCP sanctioned griefing? I guess it depends who you talk to and what your idea of "game" is.
CCP have repeatedly affirmed that it's "normal gameplay" ie: intended and within the rules.
Malcanis' Law: Any proposal justified on the basis that "it will benefit new players" is invariably to the greater advantage of older, richer players.
Things to do in EVE:-áhttp://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/ |
ReiAnn
Nova-Tek
0
|
Posted - 2012.03.03 04:58:00 -
[72] - Quote
Suicide ganking needs to be address more by CCP. Just killing the insurance payout is in essense the least they could do. There are mega-corps/alliances that pay people to do it in order to manipulate item markets. Just taking away isk is like telling a serial killer he's been bad and sending him on his way. It's sad when high sec is riskier than null sec. Plus, people use it as a griefing mechanism which is strictly against policy, but nothing ever gets done about it. If you're going to be a pirate, be a pirate. Don't gank ships to pad your killboard, then grind sec status because you don't want to be stuck in low sec. Entire corp and alliances should be forced to bare the weight of their member actions. I would rather compete with a bot than deal with an idoit who is getting free ships to mess with me while I mine. If you want to stop my mining operation, declare war and bring it like a real man. |
Ladie Harlot
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1734
|
Posted - 2012.03.03 05:30:00 -
[73] - Quote
ReiAnn wrote:Suicide ganking needs to be address more by CCP. Just killing the insurance payout is in essense the least they could do. There are mega-corps/alliances that pay people to do it in order to manipulate item markets. Just taking away isk is like telling a serial killer he's been bad and sending him on his way. It's sad when high sec is riskier than null sec. Plus, people use it as a griefing mechanism which is strictly against policy, but nothing ever gets done about it. If you're going to be a pirate, be a pirate. Don't gank ships to pad your killboard, then grind sec status because you don't want to be stuck in low sec. Entire corp and alliances should be forced to bare the weight of their member actions. I would rather compete with a bot than deal with an idoit who is getting free ships to mess with me while I mine. If you want to stop my mining operation, declare war and bring it like a real man. Better yet, make everyone with a negative status killable both ship and pod. It's REALISTIC. I love how everyone says fight back, but EVE is suppose to have an aspect for every player and every player doesnt want to PVP.
Oh man I missed this thread. Thanks for bringing it back to life with a big spergy whine.
The artist formerly known as Ladie Scarlet. |
Jaroslav Unwanted
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
1356
|
Posted - 2012.03.03 05:35:00 -
[74] - Quote
My alt has been suicide ganked once. By two cruisers .. omen and thorax i believe. I had an friendly chat with them afterwards wished them good luck and moved on. |
Jita Alt666
944
|
Posted - 2012.03.03 05:38:00 -
[75] - Quote
ReiAnn wrote:Suicide ganking needs to be address more by CCP. Just killing the insurance payout is in essense the least they could do. There are mega-corps/alliances that pay people to do it in order to manipulate item markets. Just taking away isk is like telling a serial killer he's been bad and sending him on his way. It's sad when high sec is riskier than null sec. Plus, people use it as a griefing mechanism which is strictly against policy, but nothing ever gets done about it. If you're going to be a pirate, be a pirate. Don't gank ships to pad your killboard, then grind sec status because you don't want to be stuck in low sec. Entire corp and alliances should be forced to bare the weight of their member actions. I would rather compete with a bot than deal with an idoit who is getting free ships to mess with me while I mine. If you want to stop my mining operation, declare war and bring it like a real man. Better yet, make everyone with a negative status killable both ship and pod. It's REALISTIC. I love how everyone says fight back, but EVE is suppose to have an aspect for every player and every player doesnt want to PVP.
You raised a terrible thread from the dead with a terrible post?
Prepare to have everything you hold dear and of value attacked.
|
Dbars Grinding
Garoun Investment Bank Gallente Federation
369
|
Posted - 2012.03.03 05:40:00 -
[76] - Quote
Because it is easy elite pvp and good fights. |
Cipher Jones
341
|
Posted - 2012.03.03 05:50:00 -
[77] - Quote
The cost of a couple dessies is less than the cost of some intact armor plates, so its generally profitable.
I would like to thank the goons for teaching me how.
04:25:37 Notify Cipher Jones, criminals are not welcome here. Leave now or be destroyed. |
Postumius Aculeo
Viziam Amarr Empire
0
|
Posted - 2012.03.03 06:14:00 -
[78] - Quote
IGNATIUS HOOD wrote:Atticus Fynch wrote:Well, I read a lot about "carebear tears" yet there is nothing to incite "pirate tears" in EVE. Seems kind'a one-sided. You are either predator or prey in EVE and the predators have the upper hand.
I think that is were the balance is lacking. The bears right the balance by fleeting up and defending each other. Also simply not AFK mining, watching local, gathering intel on gankers and paying attention to where they are would be a step in the right direction. You can't really stop someone determined to kill you regardless of cost but you can use the same resources he uses to find you to instead find him. Also would it really kill the bears to fit a few frigs and give these guys something to think about. Frigs are cheap and enough of them could really do something. Also, whats stopping the bears from getting more organized into bigger corps, larger alliances, and war deccing the Pirate Corps behind all of this? Is it fear? Like I said before, Frigs are cheap.
Question: Why is it that whenever the balance question comes up, the first solution suggested is ALWAYS for the carebears to radically change their playstyle to that of the gankers (PvP)? I've got nothing against PvP, but why should the PvE players be FORCED to switch to PvP in order to survive? |
Ann133566
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
98
|
Posted - 2012.03.03 06:17:00 -
[79] - Quote
Simple answer is to remove all astaroid belts from high sec. Maybe leave a pitiful amount behind for noob players. Hulks and the rest don't belong in high sec, period. Manufacturing doesn't belong there either. People who get fat and rich in high-sec are just laziness and cowardly. Stop clinging to concords skirts and man up! Join a Corp, make some friends and do mining ops with them and who knows, you might start learning about the game. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
5147
|
Posted - 2012.03.03 06:22:00 -
[80] - Quote
Postumius Aculeo wrote:Question: Why is it that whenever the balance question comes up, the first solution suggested is ALWAYS for the carebears to radically change their playstyle to that of the gankers (PvP)? I've got nothing against PvP, but why should the PvE players be FORCED to switch to PvP in order to survive? Because the GÇ£problemsGÇ¥ the carebears face are not actually problems GÇö they're purposefully designed game elements that have existing solutions. The only real problem is that the carebears refuse to make use of those solutions and instead want to change the game to fit their playstyle.
The reason they should adopt a more secure play style is because they're in a PvP game GÇö it's up to you to ensure your own survival, not the game, and if they don't want to take care of themselves, they have no-one but themselves to blame for failing to survive. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Find more rants over at Tippis' Rants. |
|
Grumpy Owly
293
|
Posted - 2012.03.03 06:32:00 -
[81] - Quote
Pro PvP and like to encorage more?
Actually like situations where ships shoot back?
You agree that pilots should adapt to challenging situations in a risky EvE?
Vote: Bounty Hunting for CSM7. Bounty Hunting for CSM 7
Stop EvE Apathy |
Ann133566
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
98
|
Posted - 2012.03.03 06:40:00 -
[82] - Quote
Grumpy Owly wrote:Pro PvP and like to encorage more? Actually like situations where ships shoot back? You agree that pilots should adapt to challenging situations in a risky EvE? Vote: Bounty Hunting for CSM7.
CSM = Glorified tourist. |
Lady Spank
Genos Occidere HYDRA RELOADED
1699
|
Posted - 2012.03.03 11:43:00 -
[83] - Quote
ReiAnn I am calling you out for bumping moronic troll threads. (a¦á_a¦â) ~ http://getoutnastyface.blogspot.com/ ~ (a¦á_a¦â) |
D'Kelle
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
14
|
Posted - 2012.03.03 15:32:00 -
[84] - Quote
The main problem is most suicide gankers are in cheap throw away ships and alts and go for soft targets so obviously have the desperate need to brag how brave they are to kill an unarmed mining ship or indy or what ever usually because they haven't the balls to use their main or a decent ship that they will loose, this kind are classified as "knuckledraging WOW intelect kiddie types" mainly, The fun thing to do is lure them to a tempting target, which turns out to be able to tank them then put "SUCKERS" in local its as funny as f*ck to watch them pop and you would be suprised then how many mouth off back to you cos their little boy mentality cant accept they were stung and tricked by a miner. :] There are various way to carry this out just be inventive. the better you are at it the more of them together are needed and/or more expensive ships they need to make their hit work that pushes up their costs as well. Dont get angry get EVEn :] |
Cipher Jones
341
|
Posted - 2012.03.03 15:38:00 -
[85] - Quote
D'Kelle wrote:The main problem is most suicide gankers are in cheap throw away ships and alts and go for soft targets so obviously have the desperate need to brag how brave they are to kill an unarmed mining ship or indy or what ever usually because they haven't the balls to use their main or a decent ship that they will loose, this kind are classified as "knuckledraging WOW intelect kiddie types" mainly, The fun thing to do is lure them to a tempting target, which turns out to be able to tank them then put "SUCKERS" in local its as funny as f*ck to watch them pop and you would be suprised then how many mouth off back to you cos their little boy mentality cant accept they were stung and tricked by a miner. :] There are various way to carry this out just be inventive. the better you are at it the more of them together are needed and/or more expensive ships they need to make their hit work that pushes up their costs as well. Dont get angry get EVEn :]
Or it could just be profitable.
04:25:37 Notify Cipher Jones, criminals are not welcome here. Leave now or be destroyed. |
Tanya Powers
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
831
|
Posted - 2012.03.03 15:49:00 -
[86] - Quote
IGNATIUS HOOD wrote:Atticus Fynch wrote:Well, I read a lot about "carebear tears" yet there is nothing to incite "pirate tears" in EVE. Seems kind'a one-sided. You are either predator or prey in EVE and the predators have the upper hand.
I think that is were the balance is lacking. The bears right the balance by fleeting up and defending each other. Also simply not AFK mining, watching local, gathering intel on gankers and paying attention to where they are would be a step in the right direction. You can't really stop someone determined to kill you regardless of cost but you can use the same resources he uses to find you to instead find him. Also would it really kill the bears to fit a few frigs and give these guys something to think about. Frigs are cheap and enough of them could really do something. Also, whats stopping the bears from getting more organized into bigger corps, larger alliances, and war deccing the Pirate Corps behind all of this? Is it fear? Like I said before, Frigs are cheap.
It's easier to join null buy a 10$ bot on the internet and make gazillions isk in total safety while being afk watching tv, go out do real good stuff. Then it's always nice to log on forums and play forum games that are obviously entertaining. |
D'Kelle
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
14
|
Posted - 2012.03.03 15:50:00 -
[87] - Quote
If you want CCP to improove the ballance, personally I think you are wasting your time and effort, its one of their stealth ways of making Empire gaming more of a chore, however the following might be a considered way they could do it, and that would be for Concorde to tractor/transport the offending POD Pilots off to an In system Prison which holds the POD for upto max 5 gaming days depending upon the cost of damage they caused so that they cannot clone jump or warp out to either a safe spot or out of system. pluss the other in system pilots can verbally take the Pi*s out of them in local then whilst in there, and I guess they may gain some Kudos for having been "inside". it wont stop them but it will cause them inconvenience and reduce the incentive, and perhaps force them to war dec corps as they should doThat is if they have what it takes to do that, which i doubt. |
D'Kelle
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
14
|
Posted - 2012.03.03 15:53:00 -
[88] - Quote
Tanya Powers wrote:IGNATIUS HOOD wrote:Atticus Fynch wrote:Well, I read a lot about "carebear tears" yet there is nothing to incite "pirate tears" in EVE. Seems kind'a one-sided. You are either predator or prey in EVE and the predators have the upper hand.
I think that is were the balance is lacking. The bears right the balance by fleeting up and defending each other. Also simply not AFK mining, watching local, gathering intel on gankers and paying attention to where they are would be a step in the right direction. You can't really stop someone determined to kill you regardless of cost but you can use the same resources he uses to find you to instead find him. Also would it really kill the bears to fit a few frigs and give these guys something to think about. Frigs are cheap and enough of them could really do something. Also, whats stopping the bears from getting more organized into bigger corps, larger alliances, and war deccing the Pirate Corps behind all of this? Is it fear? Like I said before, Frigs are cheap. It's easier to join null buy a 10$ bot on the internet and make gazillions isk in total safety while being afk watching tv, go out do real good stuff. Then it's always nice to log on forums and play forum games that are obviously entertaining.
Because most are in NPC corps in cheap thowaway alts and ships dumb ass. and you cant dec an NPC obviously youre EVE ignorant!
|
Ladie Harlot
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1748
|
Posted - 2012.03.03 18:03:00 -
[89] - Quote
D'Kelle wrote:Because most are in NPC corps in cheap thowaway alts and ships dumb ass. and you cant dec an NPC obviously your`e EVE ignorant! Dont get angry get EVEn :]
I do all my ganking from Goonwaffe characters.
The artist formerly known as Ladie Scarlet. |
gfldex
335
|
Posted - 2012.03.03 18:17:00 -
[90] - Quote
Even if the mechanics are changed _again_ (that would be round 10 IIRC) good players would still find ways to farm bad players. The game has a tutorial that gives you a mining laser and a railgun and tells you to go shoot rocks and red crosses. It teaches you nothing else. It's been that way for 8 years, so are you really surprised that there are people who aren't aware that this is a pvp game? --Jafit McJafitson |
|
Ladie Harlot
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1749
|
Posted - 2012.03.03 18:42:00 -
[91] - Quote
D'Kelle wrote:Dont get angry
Somebody needs to take their own advice.
The artist formerly known as Ladie Scarlet. |
ReiAnn
Nova-Tek
0
|
Posted - 2012.03.03 19:22:00 -
[92] - Quote
Yes, please, threaten me with suicide ganking crew. Grow up. This is the prime example of the people who need to go back to playing WOW. They don't have the intellect to do anything that might actually force them into a fight they might loose. No where in the world do legimate corporations openningly consort with criminals. If you want to be a criminal, then you have to deal with the conseqences of your actions. CCP really needs to institute a prison system like Escape from New York or better yet place them in a padded cell like any suicidal person is kept in by authorities for a long length of time. Keep players from clone jumping so they are forced to risk the fancy implants they don't want to risk while suiciding themselves. Force gankers to pay for damages done before being allowed to grind back their security status. If a PVE player is forced to deal wtih PVP players, then at least make the losses equal.
And by the way, there is no where on the main site that claims EVE is a pvp only game. so either the developers need to change their advertising or actually make EVE a game of all varieties. |
Basileus Volkan
Merch Industrial Goonswarm Federation
97
|
Posted - 2012.03.03 19:52:00 -
[93] - Quote
ReiAnn wrote:They don't have the intellect to do anything that might actually force them into a fight they might loose.
Kinda like all those bots miners during the Interdiction who didn't have the intellect to take proper precautions, huh? |
Ladie Harlot
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1754
|
Posted - 2012.03.03 20:00:00 -
[94] - Quote
ReiAnn wrote:Yes, please, threaten me with suicide ganking crew. Grow up. This is the prime example of the people who need to go back to playing WOW. They don't have the intellect to do anything that might actually force them into a fight they might loose. No where in the world do legimate corporations openningly consort with criminals. If you want to be a criminal, then you have to deal with the conseqences of your actions. CCP really needs to institute a prison system like Escape from New York or better yet place them in a padded cell like any suicidal person is kept in by authorities for a long length of time. Keep players from clone jumping so they are forced to risk the fancy implants they don't want to risk while suiciding themselves. Force gankers to pay for damages done before being allowed to grind back their security status. If a PVE player is forced to deal wtih PVP players, then at least make the losses equal.
And by the way, there is no where on the main site that claims EVE is a pvp only game. so either the developers need to change their advertising or actually make EVE a game of all varieties.
1. "Go back to WoW"
2. Suicide gankers are too stupid to play the game the "right" way
3. Suicide gankers are pathological and belong in padded cells.
4. Eve isn't a PvP game.
5. There are no consequences for suicide ganking.
It's amazing that you managed to fit every fallacy or cliche about suicide ganking into a single paragraph. There should be some sort of medal. The artist formerly known as Ladie Scarlet. |
Psychotic Monk
The Hebrew In Me Pinked
100
|
Posted - 2012.03.03 21:45:00 -
[95] - Quote
Eve's uniqueness lies in the fact that it lets us to terrible things to each other. Everything about this game sucks except that. This is the only game where we can actually effect other players.
Why do you want to crush such a beautiful and unique precious animal? There are a thousand MMOs where you will be protected. Hell, you guys already have way too much protection.
After all the game is literally called Everybody vs. Everybody. |
D'Kelle
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
14
|
Posted - 2012.03.03 21:51:00 -
[96] - Quote
Ladie Harlot wrote:ReiAnn wrote:Yes, please, threaten me with suicide ganking crew. Grow up. This is the prime example of the people who need to go back to playing WOW. They don't have the intellect to do anything that might actually force them into a fight they might loose. No where in the world do legimate corporations openningly consort with criminals. If you want to be a criminal, then you have to deal with the conseqences of your actions. CCP really needs to institute a prison system like Escape from New York or better yet place them in a padded cell like any suicidal person is kept in by authorities for a long length of time. Keep players from clone jumping so they are forced to risk the fancy implants they don't want to risk while suiciding themselves. Force gankers to pay for damages done before being allowed to grind back their security status. If a PVE player is forced to deal wtih PVP players, then at least make the losses equal.
And by the way, there is no where on the main site that claims EVE is a pvp only game. so either the developers need to change their advertising or actually make EVE a game of all varieties. 1. "Go back to WoW" 2. Suicide gankers are too stupid to play the game the "right" way 3. Suicide gankers are pathological and belong in padded cells. 4. Eve isn't a PvP game. 5. There are no consequences for suicide ganking. It's amazing that you managed to fit every fallacy or cliche about suicide ganking into a single paragraph. There should be some sort of medal.
Ah there speaks a typical Goon wanabe one of your ah dim witted just like your compatriot John Zorg Vhttps://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=832884&
Who attempted rather patetically to this my statement shown below. Sorry bub no matter what you put forward or how eloquently you put it over, most EVE players just wouldnGÇÖt trust anyone involved or attached to Goons, you have made your selves a universal pariah to the majority of normal players, so the trust level relating to your group to actually do as to what you so blithely portray would register as -99.9 Goons have stood for too much griefing and other crap in the past to be trusted to being balanced. You have cut your cloth now wear the suit. Players donGÇÖt want an EVE according to the book of Goon
You are not even a true Goon. just a wannabe Goon trailing along in their great shadow. like some beggar attempting to be what youre not.
|
Adranamnamnmalalmnalmanl
Blue Mondays Hauling
0
|
Posted - 2012.03.03 21:55:00 -
[97] - Quote
OP has 'suicide ganked' his character and biomassed. Also, I love goons. |
Cyprus Black
Cowboy Diplomacy
151
|
Posted - 2012.03.03 22:06:00 -
[98] - Quote
Atticus Fynch wrote:After reading the thread on why people suicide gank, the obvious answer..."because they can"...doesnt really address the question.
Apparently there are advantages and disadvantages involved in doing so.
The question here is, currently with present day EVE mechanics, do the advantages outweigh the disadvantages? And if so how can it be better balanced so as to discourage it.
Your thoughts/ideas? Suicide ganks are so prevalent in highsec because highsec PvP is broken. It's so broken that it's the only viable offensive method left. Even the GMs will freely admit this. They'll tell you that yes Wardec mechanics are broken and the only viable way to get at someone is to suicide gank them.
Follow my EvE blog at: http://cyprusblack.blogspot.com/ |
D'Kelle
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
14
|
Posted - 2012.03.03 22:09:00 -
[99] - Quote
Ninyania alCladdyth wrote:Mag's wrote:Atticus Fynch wrote:Ninyania alCladdyth wrote:. Im not too clear on this either. We as -5 and below understand that having such a low sec status, opens us up to being shootable anywhere any time. This includes pods. One of the reasons we run through empire in pods, isn't due to them not being shootable, but simply because they insta warp. Sorry for seeming so dense... I've been having a problem finding a clear-cut statement on whether or not Outlaw (-5 sec and lower) pods were "fair game" - every other thread I've searched out and read through made it sound like pod-kills always invoked a security status drop, and then de-evolved into carebear-vs-pirate flamewars before actually *answering the question*.
just keep a few cheap alts to suicide podkill the bas*ards then recycle your throwaway alt char. keep em in an npc corp with no link too you just like they do. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
5203
|
Posted - 2012.03.03 22:13:00 -
[100] - Quote
ReiAnn wrote:And by the way, there is no where on the main site that claims EVE is a pvp only game. so either the developers need to change their advertising or actually make EVE a game of all varieties. Have you tried actually visiting the main site before making these kinds of claims?
When I go there now, its main feature is a rolling slideshow showing four particular areas: GÇ£One universeGÇ¥, GÇ£Discover the sandboxGÇ¥, GÇ£EVE's creationsGÇ¥ and GÇ£Be a capsuleerGÇ¥.
One universe: a lot of talk about dominating the galaxy, taking part in warfare, engaging in politics, competing against other players. Discover the sandbox: discusses how every action you take affects the rest of the universe. EVE's creations: mainly videos featuring combat. Be a capsuleer: mentions that there are other playersGǪ
GǪof these four highlights, only the last one does not feature combat and competition in a very clear way (and even the capsuleer page shows competition between players). In addition, all of their advertising is about the PvP. So yeah, no, you'd have to be pretty darn daft to look at the main page or read anything about EVE anywhere and not grasp the PvP nature of the game.
They advertise the game for what it is GÇö there is no need to change it to make it GÇ£a game of all varietiesGÇ¥ (largely because it would be impossible and because it would actually ruin everything that makes the game special). GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Find more rants over at Tippis' Rants. |
|
Xorv
Questionable Acquisitions
137
|
Posted - 2012.03.03 22:15:00 -
[101] - Quote
Cyprus Black wrote:Suicide ganks are so prevalent in highsec because highsec PvP is broken. It's so broken that it's the only viable offensive method left. Even the GMs will freely admit this. They'll tell you that yes Wardec mechanics are broken and the only viable way to get at someone is to suicide gank them.
This is the answer to the OP. Fix Wardecs and NPC corps and suicide ganking will rapidly diminish. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
5203
|
Posted - 2012.03.03 22:20:00 -
[102] - Quote
Also, new stats from CCP: less than 900 ships per day are used for suicide ganks in February. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Find more rants over at Tippis' Rants. |
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
763
|
Posted - 2012.03.03 22:32:00 -
[103] - Quote
Atticus Fynch wrote:
The question here is, currently with present day EVE mechanics, do the advantages outweigh the disadvantages?
Yes. Absolutely
Quote: And if so how can it be better balanced so as to discourage it.
It's an integral part of the EVE experience. I wouldn't go as far as to say discourage the practice but as it stands right now the consequences are just too non existent to make it anything but encouraged. It's like CCP are trying to prove how bad ass they are by making griefing online instead of EVE online.
Suicide ganking should be something you need to think about. Something you need to take the time to balance the pros and cons before heading off to destroy someones hard earned ship. Not something you do on a whim because you are bored.
So... never discourage it, but don't make it so easy either. A little balance in the mechanic and things would be improved. I find if they tweak it so that both the gankers and the gankees are bitching then it's just about where it should be. Only one side is complaining right now. To me, that says there's a problem.
Mr Epeen
Me too!-á I ate one sour, too! |
Corina Jarr
Spazzoid Enterprises Purpose Built
594
|
Posted - 2012.03.03 22:51:00 -
[104] - Quote
D'Kelle wrote:Ninyania alCladdyth wrote:Mag's wrote:Atticus Fynch wrote:Ninyania alCladdyth wrote:. Im not too clear on this either. We as -5 and below understand that having such a low sec status, opens us up to being shootable anywhere any time. This includes pods. One of the reasons we run through empire in pods, isn't due to them not being shootable, but simply because they insta warp. Sorry for seeming so dense... I've been having a problem finding a clear-cut statement on whether or not Outlaw (-5 sec and lower) pods were "fair game" - every other thread I've searched out and read through made it sound like pod-kills always invoked a security status drop, and then de-evolved into carebear-vs-pirate flamewars before actually *answering the question*. just keep a few cheap alts to suicide podkill the bas*ards then recycle your throwaway alt char. keep em in an npc corp with no link too you just like they do. This is bannable. |
Serene Repose
Perkone Caldari State
343
|
Posted - 2012.03.03 22:52:00 -
[105] - Quote
Suicide missions of any sort should be a last resort. The gain should accrue to a general benefit to whom the operative represents, but the operative should gain no benefit from the act. An example from history would be Japan's lack of anti-tank landmines. To overcome this, they placed soldiers in chameoflaged holes on roads, with a howitzer shell and a hammer. Tanks drives over hole. Soldier hits shell with hammer. Tank disabled or destroyed.
The victim loses something. The Japanese army gains only in not having to face the tank. The soldier loses everything but the supposed appreciation of a grateful nation. Don't go squawking about this isn't real life. Take the idea to another extreme in EVE. I suicide gank a station, my corp salvages and loots the station, which spews all the contents of all the players with cargo holds in that station. The salvage and loot would pay for a hundred more suicide ships. A corp would be limited only by time.
This puts me in mind of when ship prices fell beneath insurance payout amounts. You could actually make ISK (remember?) by buying ships and SD-ing them for the insurance payout. In a world without rules there would seem to be no problem with this. However, when you want an internal calibration of values, this would be seen as a bulge in the form of the economic ideal.
The other major point would be if you can suicide gank for significant profit to the ganker, there's no point in anyone doing anything else in the game - chokepoint - fundamental design flaw.
Smokestack lightnin' shinin' just like gold. |
Herping yourDerp
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
404
|
Posted - 2012.03.03 23:15:00 -
[106] - Quote
use a cheap ship to kill expensive ship potential profit if not for profit it makes your killboard look better then when u get killed to badgers. not for killboards, for tears not for any of those, just bored i guess
why is it bad? because look at the penalties. you lose your ship, woopee, it probably worth less then 100mil security status drop, this is irrelavant if you live in 0.0 or lowsec, can be grinded back up decently fast, and unless they fixed it even -10 people can go to highsec in a pod and jump into a ship to suicide gank people. isk faucet, as both people get insurance payouts
why is it good? carrying expensive stuff in cargo requires planning lolsauce killmails when people lose supercarrier bpos in frigates and stuff. helps eve economy a bit mineral sink, minerals to make the ship are lost to make new ones.
what they could do is offer incentives to keep your sec status high.. if you have +5 its about the same is having 0. |
Pok Nibin
Viziam Amarr Empire
83
|
Posted - 2012.03.03 23:27:00 -
[107] - Quote
Looks like you were really scratching to come up with those. Simple pleasures for simple minds. Don't fight it.-á Rejoin your Amarrian patriarchs.-á You know you want to. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
5206
|
Posted - 2012.03.03 23:41:00 -
[108] - Quote
Serene Repose wrote:Suicide missions of any sort should be a last resort. GǪand the thing (that others have pointed out already) is that it most likely already is. The problem is rather that, after years of security buffs and a complete abandonment of policing various exploits, suicide ganking is the last and only resort. If there has been any real increase in ganks (and I still doubt it on a longer scale, even though February had more of them than January according to CCP) then it's because there's nowhere else to go.
Quote:The other major point would be if you can suicide gank for significant profit to the ganker, there's no point in anyone doing anything else in the game - chokepoint - fundamental design flaw. That's part of it, and it kind of follows on the above point: it's not necessarily that ganks pay too much GÇö it's that the alternatives pay too little compared to the effort involved, due to how difficult they have become to set up in the GÇ£security creepGÇ¥ that has happened over the years. In addition, this security creep negatively feeds the profit mechanism: the safer people think they are, the more value they put into (or onto) their ships without worrying about it, so the better-paid the ganks become, the more the effort/reward for this kind of piracy goes out of whackGǪ
I still maintain that the best thing that can happen to highsec is to make it much less inherently safe, which requires people to adopt safety behaviour to decrease their risks, which improves their chances to avoid or just plain old survive ganks, which forces attackers to adopt better-planned strategies (that the lower safety level now allows for)GǪ
GǪand everyone wins (kind of): people are effectively more secure; that security is player-made; more combat options are available for the pirates; and more variety, choice and planning is available to all.
The design flaw is in the increased security, which gives the wrong signals to the victims and which lock attackers into a single tactic, and how these two then keep reinforcing themselves. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Find more rants over at Tippis' Rants. |
Ladie Harlot
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1757
|
Posted - 2012.03.03 23:45:00 -
[109] - Quote
D'Kelle wrote:Ah there speaks a typical Goon wanabe just like one of your ah dim witted kindyour compatriot John Zorg who pretends EVE needs ballance that from another Goon wannabe lol yeah and pigs might fly. LOL your'e agroup of dim bas*ards you cant even aggree amongst yourselves whats good or not for or in EVE. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=832884&Who attempted rather patetically to answer this my statement shown below. Sorry bub no matter what you put forward or how eloquently you put it over, most EVE players just wouldnGÇÖt trust anyone involved or attached to Goons, you have made your selves a universal pariah to the majority of normal players, so the trust level relating to your group to actually do as to what you so blithely portray would register as -99.9 Goons have stood for too much griefing and other crap in the past to be trusted to being balanced. You have cut your cloth now wear the suit. Players donGÇÖt want an EVE according to the book of Goon or Goonwaffe whatever that is. You are not even a true Goon. Just a wannabe Goon trailing along in their great shadow. like some beggar attempting to be what youre not. "Goonwaffe" sounds like some watered down erzats version of the "True Goons".
Can I get a translation of whatever this is into English?
The artist formerly known as Ladie Scarlet. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
5206
|
Posted - 2012.03.03 23:54:00 -
[110] - Quote
Ladie Harlot wrote:Can I get a translation of whatever this is into English? GÇ£Goons are meanGÇ¥.
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Find more rants over at Tippis' Rants. |
|
Ladie Harlot
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1757
|
Posted - 2012.03.03 23:56:00 -
[111] - Quote
Actually I just realized that anybody who starts spouting off about what it means to be a "True Goon" is a Xenuria alt. The artist formerly known as Ladie Scarlet. |
Psychotic Monk
The Hebrew In Me Pinked
100
|
Posted - 2012.03.04 00:16:00 -
[112] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Serene Repose wrote:Suicide missions of any sort should be a last resort. GǪand the thing (that others have pointed out already) is that it most likely already is. The problem is rather that, after years of security buffs and a complete abandonment of policing various exploits, suicide ganking is the last and only resort. If there has been any real increase in ganks (and I still doubt it on a longer scale, even though February had more of them than January according to CCP) then it's because there's nowhere else to go. Quote:The other major point would be if you can suicide gank for significant profit to the ganker, there's no point in anyone doing anything else in the game - chokepoint - fundamental design flaw. That's part of it, and it kind of follows on the above point: it's not necessarily that ganks pay too much GÇö it's that the alternatives pay too little compared to the effort involved, due to how difficult they have become to set up in the GÇ£security creepGÇ¥ that has happened over the years. In addition, this security creep negatively feeds the profit mechanism: the safer people think they are, the more value they put into (or onto) their ships without worrying about it, so the better-paid the ganks become, the more the effort/reward for this kind of piracy goes out of whackGǪ I still maintain that the best thing that can happen to highsec is to make it much less inherently safe, which requires people to adopt safety behaviour to decrease their risks, which improves their chances to avoid or just plain old survive ganks, which forces attackers to adopt better-planned strategies (that the lower safety level now allows for)GǪ GǪand everyone wins (kind of): people are effectively more secure; that security is player-made; more combat options are available for the pirates; and more variety, choice and planning is available to all. The design flaw is in the increased security, which gives the wrong signals to the victims and which lock attackers into a single tactic, and how these two then keep reinforcing themselves.
I wish I could give this more likes. I wish I could paste this on walls everywhere.
I'd love to be doing other forms of ******* with other people than safaris and suicide ganks. Seriously. Fights would be ******* excellent, but there's a whole buffet of **** I'd love to be doing to people but has been nerfed and nerfed and nerfed again. But these is the tools I am reduced to. If you don't like people like me suicide ganking you or awoxing you, then give us something else interesting to do.
Or, as my father once told me 'Son, you can only **** with the **** god gave you.' |
Cipher Jones
341
|
Posted - 2012.03.04 00:21:00 -
[113] - Quote
Serene Repose wrote:Suicide missions of any sort should be a last resort. The gain should accrue to a general benefit to whom the operative represents, but the operative should gain no benefit from the act. An example from history would be Japan's lack of anti-tank landmines. To overcome this, they placed soldiers in chameoflaged holes on roads, with a howitzer shell and a hammer. Tanks drives over hole. Soldier hits shell with hammer. Tank disabled or destroyed.
The victim loses something. The Japanese army gains only in not having to face the tank. The soldier loses everything but the supposed appreciation of a grateful nation. Don't go squawking about this isn't real life. Take the idea to another extreme in EVE. I suicide gank a station, my corp salvages and loots the station, which spews all the contents of all the players with cargo holds in that station. The salvage and loot would pay for a hundred more suicide ships. A corp would be limited only by time.
This puts me in mind of when ship prices fell beneath insurance payout amounts. You could actually make ISK (remember?) by buying ships and SD-ing them for the insurance payout. In a world without rules there would seem to be no problem with this. However, when you want an internal calibration of values, this would be seen as a bulge in the form of the economic ideal.
The other major point would be if you can suicide gank for significant profit to the ganker, there's no point in anyone doing anything else in the game - chokepoint - fundamental design flaw.
I totally agree. When you attack someone in Hisec and they concord your ship, its not suicide however. The pilot(s) running the op don't lose their life, they lose their ship.
04:25:37 Notify Cipher Jones, criminals are not welcome here. Leave now or be destroyed. |
D'Kelle
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
15
|
Posted - 2012.03.04 11:39:00 -
[114] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Ladie Harlot wrote:Can I get a translation of whatever this is into English? GÇ£Goons are meanGÇ¥. Thank you for that. Its our communal duty to aid the uneducated and illiterate :) |
Orion GUardian
120
|
Posted - 2012.03.04 13:55:00 -
[115] - Quote
You know? You really need just ONE very very true statement and take it to your heart:
Stop being stupid in Highsec and try to be as cautious as nullsec dwellers are:
-> Get into an alliance, or at least a corp -> Set standings to known suicide gankers to -10, same for anyone who would be your enemy in any way -> Set up a channel "Intel" -> If you see a "red" in local: Tell your mates in" intel" -> If a red enters system with you mining ie: Get safe till he leaves or go to another system! -> ??? -> Profit, you got your own intel channel, know where threats are, can avoid them and prevent being suicided
DO NOT BE STUPID and transport valuables in easily gankable ships! If LOSING a ship or a fleet of ships just to get a chance to loot it and MAKE A PROFIT then why wouldn't anyone suice it?
DO NOT BE STUPID = BE SAFE! |
Bumblefck
Kerensky Initiatives
2914
|
Posted - 2012.03.04 15:50:00 -
[116] - Quote
Atticus Fynch wrote:Well, I read a lot about "carebear tears" yet there is nothing to incite "pirate tears" in EVE. Seems kind'a one-sided. You are either predator or prey in EVE and the predators have the upper hand.
I think that is were the balance is lacking.
Oh, really? Pirates whine about neutral RR, wardec mechanics, etc etc. This thread is just a thinly-veiled cheese and whine fest about how CCP won't protect your self-entitled carebear lifestyle.
---- CONCORD arrested two n00bs yesterday, one was drinking battery acid, the other was eating fireworks. They charged one and let the other one off. |
Nick Bison
Bison Industrial Inc Thundering Herd
14
|
Posted - 2012.03.04 16:07:00 -
[117] - Quote
Opertone wrote:IMHO sec status can not be gained by killing NPCs.
Sec status regain - mining in a correctional facility. You'll love care and bears, you'll adapt to society better. Work brings mind in order. People may only volunteer to enter corfac to repay debts to society. Otherwise they never get sec status back.
Awesome troll! +1 |
Scien Inkunen
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
16
|
Posted - 2012.03.04 17:24:00 -
[118] - Quote
Atticus Fynch wrote:After reading the thread on why people suicide gank, the obvious answer..."because they can"...doesnt really address the question.
Apparently there are advantages and disadvantages involved in doing so.
The question here is, currently with present day EVE mechanics, do the advantages outweigh the disadvantages? And if so how can it be better balanced so as to discourage it.
Your thoughts/ideas?
Because almost everything is allowed and nobody gives an s**t - it so human, isn't it? Read the "Fart file" and you will understand the meaning of life ! |
Cain Blazed
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
1
|
Posted - 2012.03.04 17:36:00 -
[119] - Quote
While i dont mind ganking happening and such. I do feel alot of potential new eve gamers are lost since they easly loose their new mining/industrial ship. Its maybe to easy to kill them?? |
Sharptons Hare
Hedion University Amarr Empire
1
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Posted - 2012.03.04 18:09:00 -
[120] - Quote
I miss my goats. |
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Bootleg Jack
Potters Field
21
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Posted - 2012.03.04 19:06:00 -
[121] - Quote
Atticus Fynch wrote:After reading the thread on why people suicide gank, the obvious answer..."because they can"...doesnt really address the question.
Apparently there are advantages and disadvantages involved in doing so.
The question here is, currently with present day EVE mechanics, do the advantages outweigh the disadvantages? And if so how can it be better balanced so as to discourage it.
Your thoughts/ideas?
If it is fun people will do it.
Look at how people flog dead horses...
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Ladie Harlot
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1765
|
Posted - 2012.03.05 09:32:00 -
[122] - Quote
Cain Blazed wrote:While i dont mind ganking happening and such. I do feel alot of potential new eve gamers are lost since they easly loose their new mining/industrial ship. Its maybe to easy to kill them??
New people aren't flying around in Exhumers.
The artist formerly known as Ladie Scarlet. |
Tarryn Nightstorm
Hellstar Towing and Recovery
248
|
Posted - 2012.03.05 10:58:00 -
[123] - Quote
Tribalic One wrote:Smell tears, I do. I honestly don't understand why this is such a debate... It's not as if there are massive gank squadrons flying around ganking every hulk or freighter on undock. We are all playing the same game right?! Every ship I undock I know is at risk of being lost. "Don't fly it, if you can't lose it." - Some EvE Guy
There aren't, but maybe there should be? Their targets should be Incursions, for obvious reasons.
Hulkageddon, you've 30 minutes to clean out your desk, and then security will escort you from the building. You've been replaced by...Incursion-geddon!
Oh Gods, please, DO EET!!
In irae, veritas. |
Krixtal Icefluxor
Bison - Ammatar Thunder Thundering Herd
361
|
Posted - 2012.03.05 11:08:00 -
[124] - Quote
Ninyania alCladdyth wrote:Why do you feel it needs to be discouraged?
Because every time a ship is ganked, or a Cheetoh eaten, God kills a kitten. OMG He Spent His Free-áAURUM ! God is simply-áthe very extraordinary power of the Universe to organize Itself as percieved. -á-á- Lee Smolin "Three Roads to Quantum Gravity" |
Tarryn Nightstorm
Hellstar Towing and Recovery
248
|
Posted - 2012.03.05 11:13:00 -
[125] - Quote
Crystal Liche wrote:Atticus Fynch wrote:After reading the thread on why people suicide gank, the obvious answer..."because they can"...doesnt really address the question.
Apparently there are advantages and disadvantages involved in doing so.
The question here is, currently with present day EVE mechanics, do the advantages outweigh the disadvantages? And if so how can it be better balanced so as to discourage it.
Your thoughts/ideas? Pros to suicide gank? I have no idea, to me it doesn't even look fun. I think you have to be like a 14 year old boy, to me it has that "smash stuff" aura that little boys like about the age right before they discover girls. I guess if a person is bored?
I'm pushing age 40. And I like "smashing stuff" on occasion, too. Much more so than I did when I was a kid, actually.
There's a little more to it than that, I think...
In irae, veritas. |
Tarryn Nightstorm
Hellstar Towing and Recovery
248
|
Posted - 2012.03.05 11:31:00 -
[126] - Quote
ReiAnn wrote:Suicide ganking needs to be address more by CCP. Just killing the insurance payout is in essense the least they could do. There are mega-corps/alliances that pay people to do it in order to manipulate item markets. Just taking away isk is like telling a serial killer he's been bad and sending him on his way. It's sad when high sec is riskier than null sec. Plus, people use it as a griefing mechanism which is strictly against policy, but nothing ever gets done about it. If you're going to be a pirate, be a pirate. Don't gank ships to pad your killboard, then grind sec status because you don't want to be stuck in low sec. Entire corp and alliances should be forced to bare the weight of their member actions. I would rather compete with a bot than deal with an idoit who is getting free ships to mess with me while I mine. If you want to stop my mining operation, declare war and bring it like a real man. Better yet, make everyone with a negative status killable both ship and pod. It's REALISTIC. I love how everyone says fight back, but EVE is suppose to have an aspect for every player and every player doesnt want to PVP.
ArtyNado pilots, x-up.
In irae, veritas. |
Tarryn Nightstorm
Hellstar Towing and Recovery
248
|
Posted - 2012.03.05 11:41:00 -
[127] - Quote
D'Kelle wrote:If you want CCP to improve the ballance, personally I think you are wasting your time and effort, its one of their stealth ways of making Empire gaming more of a chore, however the following might be a considered way they could do it, and that would be for Concorde to tractor/transport the offending POD Pilots off to an In system Prison which holds the POD for upto max 5 gaming days depending upon the cost of damage they caused so that they cannot clone jump or warp out to either a safe spot or out of system. pluss the other in system pilots can verbally take the Pi*s out of them in local then whilst in there, and I guess they may gain some Kudos for having been "inside". It wont stop them but it will cause them inconvenience and reduce the incentive, and perhaps force them to war dec corps as they should do;That is if they have what it takes to do that, which I doubt. Dont get angry get EVEn :]
You:
Uninstall.
Now.
(If troll: 0/10, no originality or style whatsoever--don't quit your day-job!) In irae, veritas. |
Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2295
|
Posted - 2012.03.05 11:49:00 -
[128] - Quote
D'Kelle wrote:You are not even a true Goon. Just a wannabe Goon trailing along in their great shadow. like some beggar attempting to be what youre not. "Goonwaffe" sounds like some watered down erzats version of the "True Goons".
Please point out where the true goons are, NPC corp alt posting pubbie "WeGÇÖre a professional Merc Alliance, like PL" ~ snot shot, 2012 |
Tarryn Nightstorm
Hellstar Towing and Recovery
248
|
Posted - 2012.03.05 11:59:00 -
[129] - Quote
D'Kelle wrote:
just keep a few cheap alts to suicide podkill the bas*ards then recycle your throwaway alt char. keep em in an npc corp with no link too you just like they do.
Yes, please do this:
Recycling sui-gank alts is an exploit that will get you banned, so then we have one less perpetual willing victim shitting up these forums trying to force utter pants-on-head stupidity on the rest of us (in-system 5 day "jail." Oh, Mother of All Gods...) to justify its miserable, lifeless existence.
But before you do that and get yourself banned for exploiting, remember to contract your assets/send your ISK to me, as you won't be needing it anymore.
Yes, please! In irae, veritas. |
Lady Mariko
Jigoku's Atomic Pimpz
5
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Posted - 2012.03.05 13:47:00 -
[130] - Quote
ReiAnn wrote:Yes, please, threaten me with suicide ganking crew. Grow up. This is the prime example of the people who need to go back to playing WOW. They don't have the intellect to do anything that might actually force them into a fight they might loose. No where in the world do legimate corporations openningly consort with criminals. If you want to be a criminal, then you have to deal with the conseqences of your actions. CCP really needs to institute a prison system like Escape from New York or better yet place them in a padded cell like any suicidal person is kept in by authorities for a long length of time. Keep players from clone jumping so they are forced to risk the fancy implants they don't want to risk while suiciding themselves. Force gankers to pay for damages done before being allowed to grind back their security status. If a PVE player is forced to deal wtih PVP players, then at least make the losses equal.
And by the way, there is no where on the main site that claims EVE is a pvp only game. so either the developers need to change their advertising or actually make EVE a game of all varieties.
Wow you the crazy angry person
Gank is more fun if miner has protection. Just watch and wait for him let the guard down. Or do it under his nose. Some one say not to use cheap ship.....what a dumbazz. |
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Sisohiv
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
26
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Posted - 2012.03.06 10:07:00 -
[131] - Quote
Preview: There was an issue with parsing this post's BBCode
Of course.
Taking it too far
I contracted him his stuff. Mailed and suggested he just quit. I can't be bothered to defend a game company that looks the other way when people treat thier new players like that. |
NuMaiky
Ring of Honor
0
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Posted - 2012.03.07 13:39:00 -
[132] - Quote
ok at this time i have both Pros and cons to this idea of "GANK"
Pros
1: they get a kill mail thats over costs there lose in isk over all its not a battle of who's lost the most ships its a fight over isk 1 mill isk can tell who won or who lost
2: the Gankers noraml have a loot stealer on site ( alts always alts ) to steal the loot and rarely but sometimes u get a loot kill thats worth a few 500 mill or so and even better they drop "faction" loot my corp mate from a long time ago lost a 4 bill is mac trying to def vs 4 gankers sad part is they failed the frist time and he got 4 Kill mails but he still lost it cuz of there 2end time around
3: Stop the botting thats has made the game AFK all the time
now this is the cons
1: Gank all the miners stops mining for a bit lowering the amount of Ore coming to station and ore is sent to builders and builders build the ships that we love and use all the time over all Ganking a mining ship means u are "ACTIVELY" asking to have ship prices go higher
2: Sec standings yes we lose it all but i do not understand a few things about that so i will not say much
add:
now what CCP should add to this game is not letting players with -3.00 standings in 0.6 or higher as EVE is all about what u do has a bad thing come with it
they can freely roam in high sec with -10.00 and another thing HIGH SEC is meaning safer peaceful i have seen players sit out side of "new palyer starting zones" and insta pop players left and right how do they even get a chance?
there is a few ways to stop gankers all together
1: make Concord timing 5 secs fastter with insta pop 2: Force concord to demand a payment paid too the person being attacked in question or be killed 3: adding more harder Tank to mining ships and Hualers to stop this Ganking 4: removeing all Ganking idea permantly and adding a ban for Gank ( would not be my frist choice as its 5: Adding more CPU and PowerGrid to all Exumers class ships ( +100 Being a med class ship and having less then most frigs is not what i call fair )
i belive alot of players who Suicide Gank is cuz they want too win at PVP but suck at it so they need a LARGE handny cap by killing miners who have no HOPE of winning
gankers have done it soo much that there is now SET FITS for every class fit for mining ships
all i can say is that there are many forums of what is now called Carebears
i belive that Gankers are called CareBears Gankers cuz killing unlessly hulks and mac and not "other" class ships gets to be lame and wasteful more or less
i am a mininer i have delt with MANY MANY CLASS of them i care not for the Trash talking they do i just take it 1 day at a time with EVE
this is just my mind of what i see it as if u have any coments on this plz EVE mail me
if u wish to Rage and lol at me your going to get nothing but a nice block cuz i care not and don't honest have the time
Sigh by NuMaiky |
Nirnias Stirrum
Ore Mongers BricK sQuAD.
23
|
Posted - 2012.03.07 13:41:00 -
[133] - Quote
Pros: You can get phat lootz It creates delicious tears
Cons: You lose a ship |
Cipher Jones
343
|
Posted - 2012.03.07 21:59:00 -
[134] - Quote
Nirnias Stirrum wrote:Pros: You can get phat lootz It creates delicious tears
Cons: You lose a ship
Eloquent in its simplicity.
04:25:37 Notify Cipher Jones, criminals are not welcome here. Leave now or be destroyed. |
Cletus Graeme
North Eastern Swat Pandemic Legion
18
|
Posted - 2012.03.08 02:06:00 -
[135] - Quote
Atticus Fynch wrote: The question here is, currently with present day EVE mechanics, do the advantages outweigh the disadvantages?
Take a look at these kills and tell me if you think it's worth it
Alliance details - Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service |
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