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Pator Noster
Pandemic Rust
3
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Posted - 2016.03.17 19:33:39 -
[1] - Quote
I've just got a whooping reward of 7.125 LPs from deplexing Large Plex in Todifrauan, 63%-contested system (in the time of writing). Minmatar faction is currently in distressing defense, being marginalized at 15,7% zone control, T1. Back when it was sitting at almost T4, I used to gain around 30.000 LPs from Large Plexes in ~50%-contested systems. This clearly indicates that the better the faction does, the higher rewards its followers can gain. This in turn provokes people from losing faction to switch sides, because winning side provides better rewards. From deplexing, invading enemy plexes as well as from missioning. This is called a snowball effect and should NEVER exist in any tug of war activity.
I'd suggest making LP gains the smaller, the more influence the winning faction acquires and increase them for the losing faction to encourage pilots to defend it.
Until CCP fixes this, I'm not gonna participate in any kind of factional warfare. |

Oreb Wing
Arm of Coryphaeus
155
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Posted - 2016.03.17 19:50:11 -
[2] - Quote
Don't be a ninny. When it hits the fan you have to turn offensive and be aggressive with systems that are undefended and upgraded. Why the Minnie spirit always breaking under pressure?
You waste your time defensive plexing. Camp the mission lanes. Bring down their tier and make LP while you're at it.
There is no grey area when the light of reason directs wisdom.
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Pator Noster
Pandemic Rust
3
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Posted - 2016.03.17 20:11:58 -
[3] - Quote
Why waste time and effort while I can just switch to Amarr militia and earn more LP?
...see? Exactly that's why I think the system's broken. |

Oreb Wing
Arm of Coryphaeus
155
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Posted - 2016.03.17 20:14:25 -
[4] - Quote
I think you allowed the monster to roll itself to this point.
There is no grey area when the light of reason directs wisdom.
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Pator Noster
Pandemic Rust
3
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Posted - 2016.03.17 20:20:17 -
[5] - Quote
I'm only one person and there is over a thousand folks on each side of the conflict. Only a fraction of them sticks to one team. Whole rest prefers to calculate income and loss. Ans that's the reason behind my way of thinking. I'd rather quit than switch sides. |

Paranoid Loyd
8727
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Posted - 2016.03.17 20:24:41 -
[6] - Quote
It's human nature, deal with it. It does no good to whine about it.
Fix the Prospect! New Server Hardware!
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Crosi Wesdo
War and Order
1813
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Posted - 2016.03.17 20:27:03 -
[7] - Quote
Pator Noster wrote:Why waste time and effort while I can just switch to Amarr militia and earn more LP?
...see? Exactly that's why I think the system's broken.
Why dont you? Thats what amarr always do when their back is against the wall. That worked out well for them over the last several years where they have been in the gutter for the most of it.
You are facing a more active, and more determined foe for the time being.
Dont fret, you will earn less LP, but your LP will be worth more. While you may lose out overall, if the only reason you do anything in militia is to make isk then im afraid minmatar militia is going to be a slightly rougher place for you in the meantime.
Please also understand, that even at tier 1, once the ISK/LP has settled, the ISK/hr will still be pretty decent in comparison to other entry level income.
Pator Noster wrote:I'm only one person and there is over a thousand folks on each side of the conflict. Only a fraction of them sticks to one team. Whole rest prefers to calculate income and loss. Ans that's the reason behind my way of thinking. I'd rather quit than switch sides.
Then ride it out. Do what you can. Dont complain about isk. Try to recognize how to make their efforts fall short or minimize their progress in any way you can. You cannot make the difference alone. But if you are loyal to your faction i doubt you are alone. |

Pator Noster
Pandemic Rust
3
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Posted - 2016.03.17 20:41:29 -
[8] - Quote
Crosi Wesdo wrote:Then ride it out. Do what you can. Dont complain about isk. Try to recognize how to make their efforts fall short or minimize their progress in any way you can. You cannot make the difference alone. But if you are loyal to your faction i doubt you are alone.
It's hard to be loyal when you're being ignored in the militia channel, asking for fleets, reporting enemy activity and being alone in the most contested system while 9 WTs are capturing it... while everyone else just posts their KMs in the channel...
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Crosi Wesdo
War and Order
1813
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Posted - 2016.03.17 21:01:17 -
[9] - Quote
That would be hard.
Build, dont blame.
Hardest part of eve is clicking the 'form fleet' button.
I personally hate doing it, but i do it before posting about bad mechanics on the forum. |

X Gallentius
Justified Chaos Spaceship Bebop
2926
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Posted - 2016.03.17 23:23:58 -
[10] - Quote
Pator Noster wrote:It's hard to be loyal when you're being ignored in the militia channel, asking for fleets, reporting enemy activity and being alone in the most contested system while 9 WTs are capturing it... while everyone else just posts their KMs in the channel...
Didn't you get anything out of Captain America: Winter Soldier?
Steve Rogers: Attention all S.H.I.E.L.D. agents, this is Steve Rogers. You're heard a lot about me over the last few days. Some of you were even ordered to hunt me down. But I think it's time to tell the truth. S.H.I.E.L.D. is not what we thought it was. It's been taken over by HYDRA. Alexander Pierce is their leader. The S.T.R.I.K.E. and Insight crew are HYDRA as well. I don't know how many more, but I know they're in the building. They could be standing right next to you. They almost have what they want. Absolute control. They shot Nick Fury. And it won't end there. If you launch those helicarriers today, HYDRA will be able to kill anyone that stands in their way. Unless we stop them. I know I'm asking a lot. But the price of freedom is high. It always has been. And it's a price I'm willing to pay. And if I'm the only one, then so be it. But I'm willing to bet I'm not.
Cap "gets it." He puts his faction first, and he's willing to go it alone. That's why others follow him. Not the other way around.
JUSTK is recruiting.
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Yang Aurilen
The Mjolnir Bloc The Bloc
1062
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Posted - 2016.03.18 00:23:47 -
[11] - Quote
Crosi Wesdo wrote:That would be hard.
Build, dont blame.
Hardest part of eve is clicking the 'form fleet' button.
I personally hate doing it, but i do it before posting about bad mechanics on the forum.
You must be in soul crushing agony every time you fleet up with your links boat huh?
Post with your NPC alt main and not your main main alt!
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Crosi Wesdo
War and Order
1814
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Posted - 2016.03.18 01:17:05 -
[12] - Quote
Yang Aurilen wrote:Crosi Wesdo wrote:That would be hard.
Build, dont blame.
Hardest part of eve is clicking the 'form fleet' button.
I personally hate doing it, but i do it before posting about bad mechanics on the forum. You must be in soul crushing agony every time you fleet up with your links boat huh? 
Yeah, because once im in fleet with my alt im pretty much immortal
Im sorrt if a fleet of 20 dudes were still vulnerable to a very narrow edge case. Therefor game broken? |

ARES-DESIDERATUS
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
0
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Posted - 2016.03.18 01:56:31 -
[13] - Quote
Did you just imply that links aren't broken because they only allow you to sometimes take on 20-dude fleets?
Don't like my post.
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Crosi Wesdo
War and Order
1814
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Posted - 2016.03.18 02:56:21 -
[14] - Quote
Did i kill any of those dudes with 5 t2 RR ships of their own and probable links too? |

Rovain Sess
Kameiran Order Team Amarrica
43
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Posted - 2016.03.18 03:09:20 -
[15] - Quote
Funny, where was this concern when the Amarr where down 2 four systems. You complain when the tide has turned - deal with it. Complaints when loosing are slow whines and not deserving of consideration. The mechanic is what it is - so earn back the WZ or take ur loosing cycle for what it is - a cycle that will pass in time. |

Arla Sarain
762
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Posted - 2016.03.18 12:02:40 -
[16] - Quote
Pator Noster wrote:I've just got a whooping reward of 7.125 LPs from deplexing Large Plex in Todifrauan, 63%-contested system (in the time of writing). Minmatar faction is currently in distressing defense, being marginalized at 15,7% zone control, T1. Back when it was sitting at almost T4, I used to gain around 30.000 LPs from Large Plexes in ~50%-contested systems. This clearly indicates that the better the faction does, the higher rewards its followers can gain. This in turn provokes people from losing faction to switch sides, because winning side provides better rewards. From deplexing, invading enemy plexes as well as from missioning. This is called a snowball effect and should NEVER exist in any tug of war activity.
I'd suggest making LP gains the smaller, the more influence the winning faction acquires and increase them for the losing faction to encourage pilots to defend it.
Until CCP fixes this, I'm not gonna participate in any kind of factional warfare. At high Tiers you run out of defensive plexes to run, particularly when you occupy a large part of WZ and most of your systems are close to stable. The high LP modifier becomes trivial for running plexs and you get forced to run missions. The people that were "provoked to switch sides" switch sides again - there is little opposition for them to start offensive plexing against the winning side and the LP is worth more due to the strained market supply.
Also, once the items on the market stabilize your LP is rarely worth as much as the modifier states. State Pro LP in T2 was only worth about 30%-50% (at most 50%) than in T1, because despite the double LP gain the ISK/LP value dropped to about 1000-1500 |

RavenPaine
RaVeN Alliance
1210
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Posted - 2016.03.18 15:47:52 -
[17] - Quote
So, you want the losing side to get paid more than the winning side? ...... Pretty sure that's NOT a good gaming strategy.
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Nameira Vanis-Tor
Pyre Falcon Defence and Security Multicultural F1 Brigade
343
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Posted - 2016.03.18 16:04:27 -
[18] - Quote
My poor Min Mil friends 
Free strategic advice:
1) Attack the Amarr Mils tier. Farmers rarely invest their LP into I-Hubs. If you keep sabotaging the upgraded systems then you will increase tension within Amarr Mil as their core militia will feel frustrated for having to 'carry' the farmers.
2) Keep attacking Amarr Mils tier! Eventually the LP value for Amarr Mil will crash and the farmers will start to fall silent.
3) Prioritise the defense of systems with occupants. It is harder for the enemy militia to contest systems that have neutrals living in them. These neutrals will hunt the enemy militia for easy content. From your perspective treat this as a D-Plexing force multiplier. It is much easier to D-Plex a pirate occupied system than to o-plex it. Likewise when the pendulum swings again you don't want to attack these systems either, so better not to lose them.
4) Become rich - all that LP you got from your high tier escapades? Well it's going to increase in value.
Other tips are available on request. |

Silverbackyererse
The Church of Awesome
204
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Posted - 2016.03.18 23:16:30 -
[19] - Quote
Pator Noster wrote: Until CCP fixes this, I'm not gonna participate in any kind of factional warfare.
Can I has your warp core stabilisers?  |

X Gallentius
Justified Chaos Spaceship Bebop
2929
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Posted - 2016.03.19 19:32:44 -
[20] - Quote
Silverbackyererse wrote:Pator Noster wrote: Until CCP fixes this, I'm not gonna participate in any kind of factional warfare.
Can I has your warp core stabilisers?  Don't you have enough Caldari Navy Warp Core Stabilizers from turning in all your State Protectorate LP?
JUSTK is recruiting.
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Silverbackyererse
The Church of Awesome
206
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Posted - 2016.03.20 01:50:06 -
[21] - Quote
X Gallentius wrote:Silverbackyererse wrote:Pator Noster wrote: Until CCP fixes this, I'm not gonna participate in any kind of factional warfare.
Can I has your warp core stabilisers?  Don't you have enough Caldari Navy Warp Core Stabilizers from turning in all your State Protectorate LP?
Tier 2 is expensive mmk!!  |

Abannan
Nocturnal Romance Cynosural Field Theory.
115
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Posted - 2016.03.23 11:53:24 -
[22] - Quote
They ruin it for the winning side too |

erg cz
Eleutherian Guard Villore Accords
417
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Posted - 2016.03.23 12:41:51 -
[23] - Quote
Pator Noster wrote:Why waste time and effort while I can just switch to Amarr militia and earn more LP?
...see? Exactly that's why I think the system's broken.
It is not broken, quite opposite. The LP/ISK tides makes regoins switch hands over nad over again, cause army of warp stabbed farmers keep switching sides.
Anyway. There is a very simple solution to your personal situation : earn ISK somewhere else, become independent from FW LP rewards and enjoy FW regardless to the tier. I make ISK in high sec and come into low sec to spend them.
IMHO, FW is fun because it has some meaning of fair battles (PLEXes filter ship classes and if you pay attention to D-Scan you will avoid 2 vs 1 fights), best chances to get into battle quicker (back times in minmatar militia I was used to be attacked in PLEX in Bosboger just 1 or 2 minutes after I get into it) and it is one of the last places, where EvE is really a game with historical background, lore, role play etc...
Absolutely free trial extension. Just click the link and get your extra week of Eve for free!
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Corvald Tyrska
Valknetra
99
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Posted - 2016.03.24 04:49:50 -
[24] - Quote
Arla Sarain wrote: At high Tiers you run out of defensive plexes to run, particularly when you occupy a large part of WZ and most of your systems are close to stable. The high LP modifier becomes trivial for running plexs and you get forced to run missions.
You're not forced to run missions you want to run missions. They have a way better LP payout than plexing anyway. Farmers want to get to Tier 3 or 4 to run as many missions as possible to bank LP to spend when the tier crashes back down and the market stabilizes (the only people who try to cash in LP immediately at high tiers don' t understand the EVE economy at all).
As to the OPs point, I would suggest that the LP scale work in reverse for defensive plexing, i.e. at high tiers you are rewarded less LP for deplexing and at low tiers more. Players on the defensive side who actually defend are rewarded better and players on the attacking side are focused more on offensive plexing for rewards or will drop the tier.
Honestly I'm not sure what to do about the missions. I haven't tried to run them for a while. Certainly it was easy enough to run the lvl 4 missions in a stealth bomber as recently as a couple of years back and at tier 4 it was simple to grind out over a million LP in under a week of casual playing. If that is still case then their payout should be nerfed into the ground or the difficulty kicked right up. Burner mission style targets would be much better anyway for those missions as FW is supposed to be PVP focused and it would certainly put an end to stealth bomber missions.
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Thanatos Marathon
Black Fox Marauders
613
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Posted - 2016.03.24 14:57:04 -
[25] - Quote
Fixed that for you. They changed FW missions to make it much harder to run them in a stealth bomber, and it was never super easy to run gal mil missions in one to begin with.
Corvald Tyrska wrote:not aware of changes in the game but feel like making random suggestions anyways.
Black Fox Marauders is Recruiting
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Master Sergeant MacRobert
Pyre Falcon Defence and Security Multicultural F1 Brigade
258
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Posted - 2016.03.24 17:11:32 -
[26] - Quote
the A vs M warzone has always been full of "flip-flop farmers".
It is encouraged by the design. ergo the design is poor.
A reduction of the Tier level bonus's (and a removal of the penalty for tier 1) would go some way to encouraging faction loyalty (albeit more could and should have been done).
"I dream a dream" ... that one day CCP gives FW a true, measured, considered and positive update to encourage long term commitment and account for those that play 1-5 hours a week as well as those that are on 30+ hrs .. but I guess part time/casual players sub's are not wanted
Ahh... so much opportunity lost. Still at least A vs M warzone has been busy lately.
"Remedy this situation or you shall live out the rest of your life in a pain amplifier"
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Corvald Tyrska
Valknetra
100
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Posted - 2016.03.24 23:49:49 -
[27] - Quote
Thanatos Marathon wrote:Fixed that for you. They changed FW missions to make it much harder to run them in a stealth bomber, and it was never super easy to run gal mil missions in one to begin with. Corvald Tyrska wrote:not aware of changes in the game but feel like making random suggestions anyways.
Well I just gave one a shot to see how different they are and promptly lost a Purifier . Seriously though, they are definitely still doable. I can see exactly where I messed up and how to avoid it. It would require a little more cherry picking and some slightly different tactics but the Minmatar ones are definitely still doable in stealth bombers, especially if you have two characters running them together, which is easy enough on a dual monitor PC.
The real way to fix it is to ensure the mission objectives aren't so vulnerable to torpedoes which is why I suggested Burner style missions. The current targets tend to be battleships, transports or structures which can all be hammered from 70-80 km away whilst outrunning the pursuing ships with a MWD. |

Abannan
Nocturnal Romance Cynosural Field Theory.
117
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Posted - 2016.03.25 11:38:12 -
[28] - Quote
Corvald Tyrska wrote:Thanatos Marathon wrote:Fixed that for you. They changed FW missions to make it much harder to run them in a stealth bomber, and it was never super easy to run gal mil missions in one to begin with. Corvald Tyrska wrote:not aware of changes in the game but feel like making random suggestions anyways. Well I just gave one a shot to see how different they are and promptly lost a Purifier  . Seriously though, they are definitely still doable. I can see exactly where I messed up and how to avoid it. It would require a little more cherry picking and some slightly different tactics but the Minmatar ones are definitely still doable in stealth bombers, especially if you have two characters running them together, which is easy enough on a dual monitor PC. The real way to fix it is to ensure the mission objectives aren't so vulnerable to torpedoes which is why I suggested Burner style missions. The current targets tend to be battleships, transports or structures which can all be hammered from 70-80 km away whilst outrunning the pursuing ships with a MWD.
Stop |

greg01
Inglorious-Basterds
46
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Posted - 2016.03.28 17:46:35 -
[29] - Quote
Tier 1 is best tier! Best contribution I could think of. Who wants my stuff?? Silver? |

Flyinghotpocket
Amarrian Vengeance Team Amarrica
569
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Posted - 2016.03.28 23:39:28 -
[30] - Quote
Corvald Tyrska wrote:Thanatos Marathon wrote:Fixed that for you. They changed FW missions to make it much harder to run them in a stealth bomber, and it was never super easy to run gal mil missions in one to begin with. Corvald Tyrska wrote:not aware of changes in the game but feel like making random suggestions anyways. Well I just gave one a shot to see how different they are and promptly lost a Purifier  . Seriously though, they are definitely still doable. I can see exactly where I messed up and how to avoid it. It would require a little more cherry picking and some slightly different tactics but the Minmatar ones are definitely still doable in stealth bombers, especially if you have two characters running them together, which is easy enough on a dual monitor PC. The real way to fix it is to ensure the mission objectives aren't so vulnerable to torpedoes which is why I suggested Burner style missions. The current targets tend to be battleships, transports or structures which can all be hammered from 70-80 km away whilst outrunning the pursuing ships with a MWD. burner style? so a minmatar maelstrom that has nyx tank moros dps and windicator webs. seems legit. need 20 people to run fw missions yay.
Amarr Militia Representative - A jar of nitro
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