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CCP Fozzie
C C P C C P Alliance
14064

|
Posted - 2016.04.01 10:52:55 -
[1] - Quote
Hello folks! We're ready to announce another change we're planning on making for our Citadel release next month, this one relating to Higgs Anchor rigs and interdiction nullified ships.
Over recent months we have been seeing an increase in the use of interdiction nullified cruisers (especially the Victorieux Luxury Yacht) combined with Higgs Anchor rigs for rolling wormholes. This is a very clever and effective use of the game mechanics, but arguments have been raised that it is currently too strong. This topic was raised by the CSM at our most recent summit, and we have been taking a closer look at it since then.
Corbexx started a discussion thread on the wormhole forums for this topic after the summit, and I want to thank everyone who participated in that debate.
We generally prefer to leave creative uses of game mechanics in place if possible, but sometimes certain mechanics combine to create unhealthy situations that must be changed. We've been watching closely as tactics involving rolling yachts have evolved over the recent months, and have determined that this meta is heading in a harmful direction. Excellent posts like this one from Axel Stenmark were especially helpful when we were making our decision.
Our current plan is that as of the Citadel release, fitting a Higgs Anchor rig will disable any Interdiction Nullification on the fitted ship.
This means you will continue to be free to use the Higgs Anchor on Yachts, T3 Cruisers and Interceptors, but that while the rig is fitted those ships will be susceptible to non-targeted interdiction effects (bubbles) like a normal ship. Players will also be able to continue to roll wormholes with non-higgs Yachts and Strategic Cruisers while enjoying the benefits of cloaking and nullification, but will take twice as many jumps to close a hole.
We will be keeping a close eye on how this change impacts the wormhole meta, and will be ready to step in and make tweaks as necessary.
Thanks and happy Truthful Friday!
Game Designer | Team Five-0
https://twitter.com/CCP_Fozzie
http://www.twitch.tv/ccp_fozzie/
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Winthorp
3826
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Posted - 2016.04.01 10:58:22 -
[2] - Quote
This is really the best change you could have made. Thanks.
Also FIRST. |

Borat Guereen
Chao3 Chao3 Alliance
58
|
Posted - 2016.04.01 11:08:12 -
[3] - Quote
Great to hear!
Join our Minarchist Revolution!
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Foedus Latro
Hard Knocks Inc. Hard Knocks Citizens
236
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Posted - 2016.04.01 11:08:53 -
[4] - Quote
What a great decision ;)
Isogen 5 | Wormhole PvP Corporation
Director and Diplomat
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Anthar Thebess
1484
|
Posted - 2016.04.01 11:09:13 -
[5] - Quote
Now just create lowsec gate to Stain and Venal and this will be best day for eve in years.
Stop discrimination, help in a fight against terrorists
Show your support to The Cause!
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Jezza McWaffle
Overload This
278
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Posted - 2016.04.01 11:13:50 -
[6] - Quote
Personally CCP I think you missed the critical issue of Yacht rolling, which is being able to fit a 100mn AB, a Yacht one way without a higgs still has, what 64 million mass? Thats 128 in and out which I think is still way too high without higgs. It was higgs combined with 100mn that was ludicrous, but if you lower the PG and / or low slots to prevent a 100mn being fitted then it solves the issue much better. Removing higgs does not solve the issue of uncatchable, cheap and no sp required ships.
Wormholes worst badass | Checkout my Wormhole blog
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Serg Sinist
Without
0
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Posted - 2016.04.01 11:18:50 -
[7] - Quote
Please, add this feature too: Higgs rigs turn off MWD and MJD, because Megatrons (or others BS) with Higgs rig is imbalance too (so fast closing!) or increase hole mass. |

yamamoto suhara
Stain Forever Happy Cartel
10
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Posted - 2016.04.01 11:19:16 -
[8] - Quote
CCP PLZ How about exporation modules fitted on non exploration designed ships(aka ceptors).I know load of explorers gona go mad but isome special modules should go on ly for designed ships |

ChromeStriker
Out of Focus Odin's Call
1025
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Posted - 2016.04.01 11:25:14 -
[9] - Quote
Serg Sinist wrote:Please, add this feature too: if Higgs rigs is installed then pilot can't activate MWD and MJD, because Megatrons (or others BS) with Higgs rig is imbalance too (so fast closing!) or increase hole mass.
Please ignore this comment thank you 
No Worries
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Snoooow
Hard Knocks Inc. Hard Knocks Citizens
1
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Posted - 2016.04.01 11:25:36 -
[10] - Quote
Serg Sinist wrote:Please, add this feature too: if Higgs rigs is installed then pilot can't activate MWD and MJD, because Megatrons (or others BS) with Higgs rig is imbalance too (so fast closing!) or increase hole mass.
They're not imbalanced, they spawn like 15km from the hole and only reapproach at like 100m/s. They're easy to catch and kill. |

Serg Sinist
Without
0
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Posted - 2016.04.01 11:27:31 -
[11] - Quote
Snoooow wrote:Serg Sinist wrote:Please, add this feature too: if Higgs rigs is installed then pilot can't activate MWD and MJD, because Megatrons (or others BS) with Higgs rig is imbalance too (so fast closing!) or increase hole mass. They're not imbalanced, they spawn like 15km from the hole and only reapproach at like 100m/s. They're easy to catch and kill. Overblob kills always. |

ChromeStriker
Out of Focus Odin's Call
1025
|
Posted - 2016.04.01 11:29:37 -
[12] - Quote
Serg Sinist wrote:Snoooow wrote:Serg Sinist wrote:Please, add this feature too: if Higgs rigs is installed then pilot can't activate MWD and MJD, because Megatrons (or others BS) with Higgs rig is imbalance too (so fast closing!) or increase hole mass. They're not imbalanced, they spawn like 15km from the hole and only reapproach at like 100m/s. They're easy to catch and kill. Overblob kills always.
.... Or a bubble.... a single bubble and a little dps... maybe a web and a scram to stop an mjd... no blob needed lol
No Worries
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Serg Sinist
Without
0
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Posted - 2016.04.01 11:48:26 -
[13] - Quote
Or this feature:
Ship with Higgs anchor rig may with the Icelandic chance close wormhole whatever life or mass (if not verge of collapce of course). |

Dominus Alterai
Star Freaks
113
|
Posted - 2016.04.01 11:51:56 -
[14] - Quote
Please choose a better date to release feature posts. I'm not 100% certain that this isn't some elaborate ruse.
Good change, however. Gets rid of both the yacht rolling and Cloaky T3 rolling safety nets.
Reducing your holes to a quivering mess since 2009.
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Dewey Cheetham
No Vacancies
0
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Posted - 2016.04.01 11:55:18 -
[15] - Quote
April fool's day change. |

Mai Khumm
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
826
|
Posted - 2016.04.01 12:03:17 -
[16] - Quote
April 1st...I'm not believing the Internet today!
Come back tomorrow... |

Callduron
SniggWaffe WAFFLES.
635
|
Posted - 2016.04.01 12:05:06 -
[17] - Quote
Came expecting an April Fool's post about interdiction nullified Citadels warping around being immune to bubbles.
Left disappointed.
I write http://stabbedup.blogspot.co.uk/
I post on reddit as /u/callduron.
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Duo Roman
Warp Nomads
10
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Posted - 2016.04.01 12:33:21 -
[18] - Quote
No matter the solution to the "No risk in rolling Wormholes" problem, Yachts should have at least Evasive Maneuvering lvl 5 (same as interceptors which has the same nullifying bonus).
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FT Diomedes
The Graduates
2372
|
Posted - 2016.04.01 14:21:00 -
[19] - Quote
Good change.
CCP should add more NPC 0.0 space to open it up and liven things up: the Stepping Stones project.
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Desiree Moufette
SarahG CO
0
|
Posted - 2016.04.01 14:51:41 -
[20] - Quote
is this an April's fools joke? |

Ransu Asanari
V0LTA WE FORM V0LTA
491
|
Posted - 2016.04.01 15:58:31 -
[21] - Quote
I can accept this change, because it still leaves the option to roll a hole with a 100MN Yacht. It'll just take a lot longer to do it, but with enough of them you can still mass holes. If the only choices are doing this in the face of a gang you can't possibly fight - it's giving them an option, rather than just POS up or log off for the day.
It'll give more time for the invaders to set up some kind of attempt to catch the Yachts or bring ships to roll prematurely and trap them, or try to decloak them with capitals and target with remote sensor boosters.
|

Iam Cloaked
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
6
|
Posted - 2016.04.01 17:05:03 -
[22] - Quote
Goons + W-space = bad, mmkay? |

Domminique Francon
Federal Defense Union Gallente Federation
0
|
Posted - 2016.04.01 17:44:30 -
[23] - Quote
Will we be able to unfit the rigs then? |

Chesterfield Fancypantz
The Golden Horde.
59
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Posted - 2016.04.01 18:01:48 -
[24] - Quote
Honestly, I wanted yachts nerfed as much as anyone and I am okay with that.
I feel that the t3s getting nerfed at the same time is heavy handed. I felt that they were in a good place with the risk of being caught not impossible, and expensive/sp loss etc.
I think that the correct change was to pull nullification off of the yacht itself and leave t3's alone. I also proposed that t3s should have their align time increased a bit to make them easier to catch.
This is heavy handed, and in reality all it means is that everyone will just have MORE alts, and make MORE passes, and waste more of our time. |

Alexhandr Shkarov
Swamphole Inc. Swamphole
30
|
Posted - 2016.04.01 19:30:24 -
[25] - Quote
Or you know,
Commit more ISK and fight for the connection if it's contested. Which you used to do, Chester.
All my posts are on my personal title and should not be confused as me speaking for anyone else.
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Flyinghotpocket
Amarrian Vengeance Team Amarrica
569
|
Posted - 2016.04.01 20:02:58 -
[26] - Quote
thats cute. but from what i read. the collapsing happens during no combat activities. so this change is pointless unless you plan on gate camping the wh permanently.
Amarr Militia Representative - A jar of nitro
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Kenneth Feld
Habitual Euthanasia Pandemic Legion
335
|
Posted - 2016.04.01 20:07:18 -
[27] - Quote
Dewey Cheetham wrote:April fool's day change.
You realize Fozzie has a penchant for posting on April first, but none have been jokes.
He is setting us up for a doozie |

Alyssia Benar
Vision Inc Hole Control
33
|
Posted - 2016.04.01 20:14:09 -
[28] - Quote
If this is going live, THANK YOU Fozzie! |

FT Diomedes
The Graduates
2372
|
Posted - 2016.04.02 00:41:46 -
[29] - Quote
Domminique Francon wrote:Will we be able to unfit the rigs then?
Yes, you can destroy them.
CCP should add more NPC 0.0 space to open it up and liven things up: the Stepping Stones project.
|

Sentamon
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
2338
|
Posted - 2016.04.02 04:46:33 -
[30] - Quote
Hah! Intentionally collapsing holes is terrible and you should feel bad for your carebear ways.
~ Professional Forum Alt -á~
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Aluka 7th
202
|
Posted - 2016.04.02 08:54:40 -
[31] - Quote
Remove Data Sheet requirement for Copying Higgs rig BPOs!! This was removed for all other rigs before Higgs existed and somehow it got back into game with Higgs BPO introduction. Probably copy paste error from old database. |

Ruby Burke
Lazerhawks
0
|
Posted - 2016.04.02 11:03:46 -
[32] - Quote
I'm not convinced this will be enough since people might just roll without higgs rigs in their yachts, but at least it's a change that also affects rolling T3s and not just yachts. I'm holding my breath for now and we'll see how it'll work out I guess... |

Narthe Raytei
Semper Ubi Sub Ubi
10
|
Posted - 2016.04.03 14:31:11 -
[33] - Quote
So now instead of rolling 70m mass, they roll 60m.... as they can still fit a 100mn.
gg CCP you really thought that one through. |

Tim Nering
R3d Fire
170
|
Posted - 2016.04.03 19:48:25 -
[34] - Quote
i love that this is being looked at but there is one huge problem... this change doesnt fix anything even with a higgs rig. here watch.
Jump hole, the entire meme squad is there with bubbles up to gank you. 1. open fitting window 2. rip the higgs rig 3. peace out
=\ |

Ruby Burke
Lazerhawks
0
|
Posted - 2016.04.05 09:34:01 -
[35] - Quote
Tim Nering wrote:i love that this is being looked at but there is one huge problem... this change doesnt fix anything even with a higgs rig. here watch.
Jump hole, the entire meme squad is there with bubbles up to gank you. 1. open fitting window 2. rip the higgs rig 3. peace out
=\
Yes, with medium higgs only costing ~1 million isk or so that is not even an expensive thing to do... especially since you only have to do it if a bubble is actually up. |

XSANATOS
Bane and Pain Limited Expectations
1
|
Posted - 2016.04.08 11:21:31 -
[36] - Quote
To change the ability to fit a higgs anchor on a luxury yacht and not be able to fly nullified its okay, but to remove this ability from T3-¦s is bad, the risk to use a T3 with higgs anchor is much bigger, a yacht cost 100m and you dont loose a skill if you die, using a T3 cost +-500m ISK and loosing a skill if you get catched should be enough effort to be able to fly nullified with higgs anchor.
Anyways, if you can jump through a wormhole and you can just destroy the higgs anchor in the time you are cloak after jump its not a solution for this because guys just adapt this ability and will have enough higgs anchor riggs to refit with them.
The only thing i see here is risk vs. reward with yacht rolling wormholes is almost zero risk at all.
|

FT Diomedes
The Graduates
2391
|
Posted - 2016.04.08 13:05:30 -
[37] - Quote
Tim Nering wrote:i love that this is being looked at but there is one huge problem... this change doesnt fix anything even with a higgs rig. here watch.
Jump hole, the entire meme squad is there with bubbles up to gank you. 1. open fitting window 2. rip the higgs rig 3. peace out
=\
You cannot unfit a rig without a mobile depot or SMA.
CCP should add more NPC 0.0 space to open it up and liven things up: the Stepping Stones project.
|

Winthorp
3832
|
Posted - 2016.04.08 13:29:11 -
[38] - Quote
FT Diomedes wrote:Tim Nering wrote:i love that this is being looked at but there is one huge problem... this change doesnt fix anything even with a higgs rig. here watch.
Jump hole, the entire meme squad is there with bubbles up to gank you. 1. open fitting window 2. rip the higgs rig 3. peace out
=\ You cannot unfit a rig without a mobile depot or SMA.
LOL, lay off the crack pipe son.
You can do it without any of that, you can even do it cloaked. |

Ransu Asanari
V0LTA WE FORM V0LTA
491
|
Posted - 2016.04.10 17:01:15 -
[39] - Quote
Someone brought up a good point that we may want to take into account with the rolling T3 Strategic Cruisers. I'm not sure if there is a rebalance of the T3 Cruisers that will address this, but I thought I'd bring up this scenario.
We may want to consider making it impossible to fit the Interdiction Nullification subsystem if a Higgs anchor is fitted. The reason, is that you can warp to a hostile hole (if it's not bubbled both sides), run the 100MN AB, jump through, then destroy your Higgs anchor and warp off cloaked and nullified on the side the fleet has hole control.
Then just Mobile Depot, put another Higgs rig on, and repeat. This won't be a problem with the Yachts, because they won't have the cargo space to fit a stack of Higgs anchor rigs. But the rig is only 10m3, so a rolling T3 could hold a stack of them easily.
This is still slightly worked around by carrying the subsystems and refitting on the fly, but it'll be a lot harder if the Interdiction Nullification subsystem can't be fit at all, because it'll take up more space in the cargo. |

XSANATOS
Bane and Pain Limited Expectations
19
|
Posted - 2016.04.11 11:07:10 -
[40] - Quote
Ransu Asanari wrote:Someone brought up a good point that we may want to take into account with the rolling T3 Strategic Cruisers. I'm not sure if there is a rebalance of the T3 Cruisers that will address this, but I thought I'd bring up this scenario.
We may want to consider making it impossible to fit the Interdiction Nullification subsystem if a Higgs anchor is fitted. The reason, is that you can warp to a hostile hole (if it's not bubbled both sides), run the 100MN AB, jump through, then destroy your Higgs anchor and warp off cloaked and nullified on the side the fleet has hole control.
Then just Mobile Depot, put another Higgs rig on, and repeat. This won't be a problem with the Yachts, because they won't have the cargo space to fit a stack of Higgs anchor rigs. But the rig is only 10m3, so a rolling T3 could hold a stack of them easily.
This is still slightly worked around by carrying the subsystems and refitting on the fly, but it'll be a lot harder if the Interdiction Nullification subsystem can't be fit at all, because it'll take up more space in the cargo.
For sure you whrote that because you dont like that i close Thera all the time if its close to my home ^^ But i tell you, it will change nothing, because when this changes are coming then i just take 10 closing yachts accounts without higgs and close it anyways... |

Luscius Uta
Anomalous Existence Low-Class
210
|
Posted - 2016.04.11 12:02:26 -
[41] - Quote
I'd prefer if you just nerfed Yacht's powergrid since the whole problem came from Yachts, not from Higgs rigged T3s and Interceptors. But Fozzie has his own way of doing things.
Workarounds are not bugfixes.
|

Zamyslinski
V0LTA WE FORM V0LTA
17
|
Posted - 2016.04.13 10:39:40 -
[42] - Quote
higged nullified t3s are more common than yahts by now and they are simply not killable. we encounter them all the time and we werent able to kill a single one so far |

Odessa Day
Velocette.
1
|
Posted - 2016.04.13 14:28:08 -
[43] - Quote
Got to this party too late!
I think a lighter touch would be for
1. Higgs rigs to double decloak range
2. Double how far they throw you from the hole
3. Half the Yachts agility
just my 2 cents |

aldhura
Bartledannians Nite Owls
37
|
Posted - 2016.04.14 00:45:04 -
[44] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:Hello folks! We're ready to announce another change we're planning on making for our Citadel release next month, this one relating to Higgs Anchor rigs and interdiction nullified ships. Over recent months we have been seeing an increase in the use of interdiction nullified cruisers (especially the Victorieux Luxury Yacht) combined with Higgs Anchor rigs for rolling wormholes. This is a very clever and effective use of the game mechanics, but arguments have been raised that it is currently too strong. This topic was raised by the CSM at our most recent summit, and we have been taking a closer look at it since then. Corbexx started a discussion thread on the wormhole forums for this topic after the summit, and I want to thank everyone who participated in that debate. We generally prefer to leave creative uses of game mechanics in place if possible, but sometimes certain mechanics combine to create unhealthy situations that must be changed. We've been watching closely as tactics involving rolling yachts have evolved over the recent months, and have determined that this meta is heading in a harmful direction. Excellent posts like this one from Axel Stenmark were especially helpful when we were making our decision. Our current plan is that as of the Citadel release, fitting a Higgs Anchor rig will disable any Interdiction Nullification on the fitted ship. This means you will continue to be free to use the Higgs Anchor on Yachts, T3 Cruisers and Interceptors, but that while the rig is fitted those ships will be susceptible to non-targeted interdiction effects (bubbles) like a normal ship. Players will also be able to continue to roll wormholes with non-higgs Yachts and Strategic Cruisers while enjoying the benefits of cloaking and nullification, but will take twice as many jumps to close a hole. We will be keeping a close eye on how this change impacts the wormhole meta, and will be ready to step in and make tweaks as necessary. Thanks and happy Truthful Friday!
How is this an any worse mechanic than miner bumping and hyperduncking ?? oh wait, the goonie CSM doesn't like it :/
Bartledannians Corporation is recruiting
Nite Owls Alliance is recruiting
|

XSANATOS
Bane and Pain Limited Expectations
19
|
Posted - 2016.04.14 02:07:51 -
[45] - Quote
Zamyslinski wrote:higged nullified t3s are more common than yahts by now and they are simply not killable. we encounter them all the time and we werent able to kill a single one so far
Here we go, because you guys fail all the time you try it, this need a change 
|

XSANATOS
Bane and Pain Limited Expectations
19
|
Posted - 2016.04.14 02:09:21 -
[46] - Quote
Odessa Day wrote:Got to this party too late!
I think a lighter touch would be for
1. Higgs rigs to double decloak range
2. Double how far they throw you from the hole
3. Half the Yachts agility
just my 2 cents
I like the idea with the "double decloak range", but your second idea is not really working because everyone want to be as far as possible spawn away from the wormhole...
|

Ooohhmmm
suicide b.y cop
1
|
Posted - 2016.04.15 13:20:58 -
[47] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote: Our current plan is that as of the Citadel release, fitting a Higgs Anchor rig will disable any Interdiction Nullification on the fitted ship.
Thanks and happy Truthful Friday!
Isnt this kind of "shoting fish in a barrel using shotgun" approach to a limited issue. Imho this easy fix, will have an impact of gameplay in the know universe you havent even began to consider, limeting the very creative gameplay mentioned. All because One ship in One small setting is used creativly.
If this is how you problem solve, you should make scamming agains the euala to help new players. And believe me, new player scam, has lost you thousands and thousands of potential players over the years |

Frostys Virpio
KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation
2777
|
Posted - 2016.04.15 13:33:08 -
[48] - Quote
Luscius Uta wrote:I'd prefer if you just nerfed Yacht's powergrid since the whole problem came from Yachts, not from Higgs rigged T3s and Interceptors. But Fozzie has his own way of doing things.
I'd like to know what are the other use for higgs on nullified T3 and inty since apparently, this change affect other play style. |

XSANATOS
Bane and Pain Limited Expectations
19
|
Posted - 2016.04.15 16:14:45 -
[49] - Quote
Fozzie wrote in https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=5159286#post5159286 :
Quote:We expect that this will have a few somewhat niche uses right away for miners and residents of wormholes (especially lower-class holes) and that players can come up with more creative ways to use it over time.
Now:
Quote:This is a very clever and effective use of the game mechanics, but arguments have been raised that it is currently too strong.
Quote: Our current plan is that as of the Citadel release, fitting a Higgs Anchor rig will disable any Interdiction Nullification on the fitted ship.
Ok, but take away abilitys to be nullified when Higgs anchor fitted is just making them useless for all the guys they found out the clever use of it in case of closing wormholes |

XSANATOS
Bane and Pain Limited Expectations
19
|
Posted - 2016.04.25 12:58:52 -
[50] - Quote
Patch notes for EVE Online: Citadel Released on Wednesday, April 27, 2016
Quote:Higgs rigs will now negate interdiction nullification.
Thanks for not listen to players ccp...
My adaption: creating new accounts, inject skillpoints for using fitt for closing yacht, close wormholes like before  |

NotTheSmartestCookie
new order logistics CODE.
128
|
Posted - 2016.05.10 10:46:30 -
[51] - Quote
XSANATOS wrote:.... My adaption: creating new accounts, inject skillpoints for using fitt for closing yacht, close wormholes like before 
So you are now playing with more accounts? That will certainly show CCP who is boss! Keep up the good work.
Making New Eden a better place 8 rounds of Void at a time.
Funny, smartest, pretty and relevant. Pick 3.
Proud shareholder in Halaima MinerBumping
|

XSANATOS
Bane and Pain Limited Expectations
19
|
Posted - 2016.05.11 02:04:48 -
[52] - Quote
NotTheSmartestCookie wrote:XSANATOS wrote:.... My adaption: creating new accounts, inject skillpoints for using fitt for closing yacht, close wormholes like before  So you are now playing with more accounts? That will certainly show CCP who is boss! Keep up the good work.
New accounts are almost free since skill extractor farming toons...
|

FT Diomedes
The Graduates
2546
|
Posted - 2016.05.11 10:57:53 -
[53] - Quote
XSANATOS wrote:NotTheSmartestCookie wrote:XSANATOS wrote:.... My adaption: creating new accounts, inject skillpoints for using fitt for closing yacht, close wormholes like before  So you are now playing with more accounts? That will certainly show CCP who is boss! Keep up the good work. New accounts are almost free since skill extractor farming toons...
I bet you also think the minerals you mine are also free?
CCP should add more NPC 0.0 space to open it up and liven things up: the Stepping Stones project.
|

XSANATOS
Bane and Pain Limited Expectations
19
|
Posted - 2016.05.11 15:53:35 -
[54] - Quote
I like the way you troll around... TBH idk about isk... The only thing what changed here is they changed something what changed nothing at the end... |

Frostys Virpio
KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation
2819
|
Posted - 2016.05.12 13:14:56 -
[55] - Quote
XSANATOS wrote:NotTheSmartestCookie wrote:XSANATOS wrote:.... My adaption: creating new accounts, inject skillpoints for using fitt for closing yacht, close wormholes like before  So you are now playing with more accounts? That will certainly show CCP who is boss! Keep up the good work. New accounts are almost free since skill extractor farming toons...
CCP still turn in more money because of your alts. You are effectively validating their change with extra income. |
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