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PreTender
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Posted - 2003.12.15 15:53:00 -
[61]
How is this going to effect the people with 5/5 refining skill ?
are they going to be the same as now and the new skill will only make it better
or are they going down in minerals ? and im just talking about the ore refining not loot
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http://www.eve-extra.com |
QSquared
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Posted - 2003.12.15 16:15:00 -
[62]
As an Freelance miner I'm kinda worried, I never trained my refine skills up, I trained my mining skills up, and sold to the master refiners. Now that I have reached ref 5 ref eff 4 it's feasible for me to refine my own minerals, and I don't have to rely on buy orders for specific ores, and will never have to worry abotu selling off trit, and rarely pyr.
However... am I now going to have all my hard-erned refining skills nerfed? was this a big wast eof tme in the last month going from refine 1 to ref5 ref eff4? shoudl I stop training Ref-eff five and save myself 2 and 1/2 weeks? whats the deal? it's kinda confusing.
Also what squaters, are they killing the transport loot drops or rat loot drops? because I liek to kill rats, but the value of everythign they drop is so worthless that I just end up refining 95% of it all. Will that be nerfed? I mainly just want a nice ol' sec status, will stations be ****ed at you for killing rats? that makes no sence....
~Q
~Q |
Camoss
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Posted - 2003.12.15 16:23:00 -
[63]
Edited by: Camoss on 15/12/2003 16:26:30
This is really gonna be a kick in the pants for people like me who have very limited time to play EVE. I'm having troubles as it is trying to earn enough to buy a Thorax for myself.
Now I have to spend my very-hard-earned ISK on a new skill to get the best out of my refining? Give us little guys a break we don't have a bank account of a billion ISK!
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PreTender
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Posted - 2003.12.15 16:38:00 -
[64]
yeah or what of those people like me who trained a long time to get both skills at lvl 5
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http://www.eve-extra.com |
Uuldahan
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Posted - 2003.12.15 16:42:00 -
[65]
 Quote:
Edited by: Camoss on 15/12/2003 16:26:30
This is really gonna be a kick in the pants for people like me who have very limited time to play EVE. I'm having troubles as it is trying to earn enough to buy a Thorax for myself.
Now I have to spend my very-hard-earned ISK on a new skill to get the best out of my refining? Give us little guys a break we don't have a bank account of a billion ISK!
You aren't obliged to buy them. But if you want to be more efficient, you'll have to.
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Pod Me
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Posted - 2003.12.15 16:45:00 -
[66]
Edited by: Pod Me on 15/12/2003 16:48:22
Edited by: Pod Me on 15/12/2003 16:47:53
Quote:
Since release we have had support for station equipment quality and that is now worked into the over all effect. Equipment quality ranges from 20%-50% combined with skill mean that a refiner that has trained refining, refining efficiency and the specialty skill required can refine at no loss at 50% and 40% stations. At 30% stations his net efficiency is 91.8%. This is excluding all "we take" due to standing
Maybe you guys missed this bit, the bit I've emboldened?
Looks like the key is having good refine, refinery efficiency, speciality skills, a good standing with the corp owning the station and being in a good station.
If you're missing any of those the result will be lower yield, but having 5 + 5 you've already got a head start on anybody with lesser skills. Where's the panic?
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Dianabolic
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Posted - 2003.12.15 17:09:00 -
[67]
Quote:
Edited by: Camoss on 15/12/2003 16:26:30
This is really gonna be a kick in the pants for people like me who have very limited time to play EVE. I'm having troubles as it is trying to earn enough to buy a Thorax for myself.
Now I have to spend my very-hard-earned ISK on a new skill to get the best out of my refining? Give us little guys a break we don't have a bank account of a billion ISK!
Then don't train it - nor refine it - sell it to me, I'll buy it at a rate that you won't make refining it yourself.
THIS IS THE POINT!
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QSquared
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Posted - 2003.12.15 17:12:00 -
[68]
Quote:
Edited by: Camoss on 15/12/2003 16:26:30
This is really gonna be a kick in the pants for people like me who have very limited time to play EVE. I'm having troubles as it is trying to earn enough to buy a Thorax for myself.
Now I have to spend my very-hard-earned ISK on a new skill to get the best out of my refining? Give us little guys a break we don't have a bank account of a billion ISK!
So So So F'ing true. Sigh. hope it's not as bad as it seems it probably isn't I'm more worried about travel times and pirate cvamping, seems liek we'll be trapped on jump-in now by default, and terribly screwed if we're using autopilot, because if we aren't we have 1 minute cover-time but if we are we begin moving instantly....
~Q |
j0sephine
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Posted - 2003.12.15 17:20:00 -
[69]
"yeah or what of those people like me who trained a long time to get both skills at lvl 5"
Uhmm, they still have the advantage over people who didn't train those skills to the top level... because you need both the 'old' and 'new' skills for maximum efficiency?
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Luther Pendragon
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Posted - 2003.12.15 17:53:00 -
[70]
Edited by: Luther Pendragon on 15/12/2003 17:57:18
Actually, this should be coupled with advanced mining skill...1 for each roid class. I think they should come in at the same time, mining and refining skills.
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Taggart wants YOU. Join TTi!
*waves his hand in your face in the jedi way* |
GFLTorque
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Posted - 2003.12.15 18:29:00 -
[71]
"...affecting Squaters..."
As player owned stations are NOT in use yet, and there are some corps like ours that are based in 0.0 systems (as I thought was desired), I certainly hope that killing NPC's in the same system as the only STATION within 10 systems does not keep you from fully utilizing that one and only station.
If it does, then corporations will head right back to the super highway and Empire space.
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StealthNet
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Posted - 2003.12.15 19:08:00 -
[72]
Be careful CCP: you guys are tweaking things that are working, making things so much complicated.
The learning curve of this game is already steep, and instead of making things SIMPLER, you are making them harder to operate, understand and make.
Thats a really explosive combination.
I hope you guys have ever read a book called The Mythical Man-Month. It is starting to appear that you guys are trying to fix everything and in fact, you will get nothing fixed by introducing new code.
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SerpentBlade
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Posted - 2003.12.15 20:08:00 -
[73]
Edited by: SerpentBlade on 15/12/2003 20:10:33
As more time progresses, the more skills people can finish off... so without more skills to each specialty, people end up turning into all around characters. By adding new refining skills, you now have to make refiners work a bit hard to be the best at refining, preventing them from becomming masters of 1, 2, or even 3 other things in the game. We need specialization now, as to not allow people to end up being masters of all aspects of the game.
More skills = specialization. More time = despecialization. More skills now, the better
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I don't have a signature. |
Teeth
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Posted - 2003.12.15 20:26:00 -
[74]
Any chance the output of roids in general will be increased to accomodate for these changes so people still get the same raw stuff before and after patch?
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Anima1
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Posted - 2003.12.15 22:20:00 -
[75]
Edited by: Anima1 on 15/12/2003 22:26:02
Quote:
I think this is a cool idea.
The more skills available the better.
any monkey can spare the time to get Ref and RefEff, it's hardly specialising.
Now it will make a difference.
I can't understand all the moaning that people are being nerfed, though. everyone with refeff5 will *still* have refeff5 after the patch.
The only difference will be the people who want to shave a little more off the cost will train up the necessary skills to do that.
It's not like you'l lbe banned from refining this stuff if you haven't learnt the skill.
I wish the other skill areas had trees as complex as this one, the gunnery one, and the new science ones.
As for any monkey can refine LOL not many people take the 20+ days total to get that skill. I know you dont have it. Though your gunnery rank is prolly 4 to 5 on everythin.
Yep this is good for you cause miners/producers will be busy specializing now instead of catching up to you on gunneryskills. YOu come in try to promote this, kiss devs arses.
Does anyone see a target here besides me??? MINERS/PRODUCERS getting nerfed. mr si you should be supporting the miner/producer side cause the wealthier we are the more wealthy you will become in general.
MORE SKILLS TO DO THE SAME D**NED THING WE BEEN DOIN. Cuts into my time that i have spent here and the projection of where I wanna be in the game. Now everything must be done in a team or nothing. Small corps are gonna die everywhere and only be reduced to mininig dirt. Means more bodies for pirates or more bodies for megacorps.
Pls devs, let us keep on doin our solo thing if we wanted to. I know I dont wanna worry bout 10 other guys who needs what, I have to study while I mine, I cant have my eyes on them, and the book at the same time. You let guys do missions solo, but that is not everyones profession nor desire to do. I have done a whopping 12 missions. I wont do anymore, I would rather fight, burn rock all day, or burn in hell.
I see it this way, if im burning rox im keepin the systems from overloading, im not moving round to the same places your researchers/mission puppets are going, which will eventually lead to more systems overloading with players. Your current system that is inplace wont handle it.*** MARK these words.
Think about the most extreme carebear, then think bout the most extreme pvpers. Meet in the middle. Force wars by introducing a Mega Super Highway. Somethin that would warp you 25 to 30 jumps into a region. The more wars, the more ships, the more minerals, we all get happy.
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Paul Dubois
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Posted - 2003.12.15 22:57:00 -
[76]
Definitely going to have a major impact on the income of those who 'farm' npc pirates in their own space.
Only place to get NPC cruisers generally is outside of empire space, for a lot of people the recycling of the junk you mainly get forms a good part of the income you make. But of course killing rats drops your standing with them which means that they will take a large chunk of your recycling if youre doing it in thier own territory :-)
Which together with the fact that the price people will pay for rare pirate drop modules is going to drop with tech 2 modules coming in will mean a substantial drop in income for those who farm npc pirates in their own territory. How much of a drop remains to be seen. Plus with the introduction of the new skill for recycling loot you have a decision to make about whether to pump skill points in to it or not.
Assuming, of course, that my understanding of this is correct. All in all, a lot of hard choices going to have to be made in all areas cos from now on you really can't be good at everything, youre gonna have to choose - specialise and be good in one area or generalise and just be okay in most things.
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Marvel Master
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Posted - 2003.12.16 00:50:00 -
[77]
Hello hellmar,
please remove this new 16 skills to refine ore.
Better, delete the entire new patch.
You write, that EVE can be played by Freelancers. If i need 16 skills to refine my ore, then i need the help from a corporation.
Marvel
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Dianabolic
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Posted - 2003.12.16 00:58:00 -
[78]
Massively MULTIPLAYER online game.
U could play this game as a solo - perhaps SPECIALISE in refining scordite.
Or building Tech II Reactor Control Units.
Or supplying implants or research skills.
Or hauling.
Or spying.
Or researching, supplying Tech II bp's.
So, who can't be a freelance?
The more skills, the more opportunity to make money. Bring it on.
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Braccas
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Posted - 2003.12.16 01:15:00 -
[79]
Edited by: Braccas on 16/12/2003 01:19:14
Ehm..i¦m more one of the calm people around. Like everybody i got my own thoughts about tweaks, nerfs, patches however you may call it.
Maybe it¦s just a guess or the way i explain things to myself, but did anyone of you sometimes think about CCP could have had these things laying on their desks for a long time?
It¦s not like 4 people script a little here a little there, but developers getting things to run that were supposed to be in the game back when it was in an early state of design.
We truely came to a point where people even whine about specialized skills!?! I mean, hey...that¦s exactly what i expect from this awesome game. On top of that i bow down on bloodsweating coders who¦re implementing stuff that was planned to hit the screen much later.
Go contemplate and you¦ll discover that you¦re not whining about the game, but about yourself lacking imagination and creativity.
@devs: Aces! Keep it up!
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Kalar Vrask
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Posted - 2003.12.16 02:40:00 -
[80]
Quote:
Massively MULTIPLAYER online game.
U could play this game as a solo - perhaps SPECIALISE in refining scordite.
Or building Tech II Reactor Control Units.
Or supplying implants or research skills.
Or hauling.
Or spying.
Or researching, supplying Tech II bp's.
So, who can't be a freelance?
The more skills, the more opportunity to make money. Bring it on.
Yes, but your points are all 'ors'.
And lets face it, how goddamn boring will it be if all you do is refine? Specialisation is one thing, 17 skills for refining? 
I think 17 skills is over the top. I think this is a half-cocked attempt at nerfing the player bases income, and therefore slowing down player progress because they can't get their patches & content out quick enough. Of course that could be due to stupid last-minute ideas like this.
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FREAKZILLA1
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Posted - 2003.12.16 06:13:00 -
[81]
u have got to be F-ing kidding me  I thought that 1254 was an excellent patch, but this patch just plain sucks all around, other than roid respawns and bs npc's, 17 skills!! 
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Slithereen
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Posted - 2003.12.16 06:32:00 -
[82]
Instead of an Ore Refining Skills (17), I propose a simpler and more direct subsitute.
Mineral Refining Skills
Tritium
Pyerite
Mexallon
Isogen
Noxcium
Zydrine
Megacyte
So instead of 17 skills, you only have seven.
The purpose of these skills is to maximize yield and reduce wastage of a particular mineral regardless of what type of ore or loot.
Thus a refininer with Isogen Refinement skills would get more isogen whether the person is mining Omber, Kermite or Jaspet, or if it's from loot.
_______________________________________________
"Is it me or the bad guys just getting totally pathetic?"---Clover, Totally Spies,
"Hope is wasted on the Hopeless."---Mandy, The Grim Adventures of Billy and Mandy.
"Stars are holes in the sky from which the light of the Infinite shine through."---Confucius.
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Tarlamara Laeladithar
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Posted - 2003.12.16 07:10:00 -
[83]
As a refiner/production specialist, Ive spent the time getting ref and ref eff to lvl 5 as well as every other industrial skill except Factory Managment.
When the new skills get here Ill pick them up to and hopefully get better at what I do then I am now... although being 99% efficient at this point while refining seems to indicate that just my current skills will yield less then that after patch with out the new ones.
Personally I find it annoying... im never going to be able to stop working on this character and finish my researcher which now needs a ton more skills too... but I will live with it.
What bothers me is the 'we take' is now based on the Net minerals refined... that means us uber specialized refiners are going to be paying more cause were better at what we do and our net yield will be larger.
Maybe it should just be a lump sum based on the total amount and modified by faction standing.....
Although I dont know how Im going to effect faction standing much considering Im flying a mammoth for hauling and only have the basic weapons skills that I started with on this character which means... yay go civ gatling.
So to sum most of that up....
Why the hell do I have to pay more because im better at what I do?
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"Wait a minute here... Im the specialist why do I have to fly to you to refine your ore. You bring your 4.0M scordite here, I'll wait. |
Braccas
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Posted - 2003.12.16 09:17:00 -
[84]
Quote:
...Personally I find it annoying... im never going to be able to stop working on this character and finish my researcher which now needs a ton more skills too... but I will live with it...
There¦s my point. When exactly did you finish your real life character?
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Kipkruide
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Posted - 2003.12.16 09:53:00 -
[85]
Uhm not to be dissing the dev's but i take it they took into account something for 0.0 space,
It's a bit hard to mine there without killing a lot of the region specific type pirates, since the stations are there too are we going to be uber penalized for being in 0.0 space, which has nothing to do with 1) loot camping stations and 2) getting out of empire space which the devs seem to want for high end corps and chars.
I don't give a rats ass if they nerf loot campers to death but i will get slightly annoyed if they kill all stations for us in 0.0 space since most peeps here have a -9/10 standing towards the relevant faction.
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Ruffles
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Posted - 2003.12.16 10:00:00 -
[86]
Specialisation. Yes, what a wonderful thing, or is it?
Did I join this game to specialise to mine all hours of my free time? Hell no.
As the reporter from Gamespot put it. Investing time in the Mining skill isn't a choice as much a necessity. This games economy is based on minerals and the output of the market, in theory...
I joined this game for the eventual PvP potential it has. The more and more I look at it, the less and less I wonder why I bothered with other skills. It seems that the more and more specialised you get, the worse and worse the potential will be for others not already specialised in those combatting types.
Just be extremely careful how much 'specialisation' you put into incredibly mundane and BORING tasks! Its a game. Remember that last bit, entertainment should be the key here for people, not months of mundane. Yes, its good for your reoccuring revenue. If people find it fun enough to do.
Personally, I look forward to the day when mixed fleets arrive, and newbie people can also join the freys in their frigates and have fun. Not feeling they are training totally pointless skills and getting bored doing those mundane tasks, but just enjoying themselves and not feeling like risking their current ship is above their afordability.
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Stradivarious Hawke
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Posted - 2003.12.16 11:29:00 -
[87]
Perhaps I'm wrong but it seems to me that , judging by what the devs said ,with these changes you will still get less minerals than you can do now,even with all the proper skills at level 5 and good standings, ie more time required for a lower return.
Perhaps it makes more sense that stations belonging to factions you're on friendly terms with would charge you less but still ! .. having to specialize this much is a bit too extreme,more so if you end up getting less than before anyway. 
And muplitplying skills in order to specialize in ammo types ? maybe not ..
Nemo me impune lacessit |
Dragothmar
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Posted - 2003.12.16 11:57:00 -
[88]
Errrr let's see... I have a song!
&# Swing that funky nerf bat white boy &# ow! &#
yeah ok so I butchered a disco classic...
at least they're adding something new though - I approve of the new stuff(TM) but why does something new always involve nerfing something old? (ahem! New AB system (new) and travel times (nerfed) ahem!) isn't there a niche somewhere where you could just cram in something entirely new that changes the way we play and yet make the old ways still do-able?
*Wesside?*
*Nah, NOOOORTHSIIIIHEEEEEED in da house!* |
Chatelaine
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Posted - 2003.12.16 13:03:00 -
[89]
Quote:
u have got to be F-ing kidding me I thought that 1254 was an excellent patch, but this patch just plain sucks all around, other than roid respawns and bs npc's, 17 skills!!
More skills = more content
This new patch will include an enormous amount of new content, that everyone screamed for: More content! Where is the content? I'll quit if you don't give me more content!!!
WTF are you guys crying about now? Now you don't want more content??? You have problems coping with change? Get used to it!
I say, bring it on! Flood the game with new thing to do, new skills to train etc etc.
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Cao Cao
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Posted - 2003.12.16 13:14:00 -
[90]
Quote:
Any chance the output of roids in general will be increased to accomodate for these changes so people still get the same raw stuff before and after patch?
In case you haven't noticed, the whole point is to reduce the rate at which people make money in the game. They don't like people mining in battleships, they don't like so many people in battleships period. The idea is that people make money too easily, thats why DCM takes special, low-turret ships to do.
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