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Hellmar
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Posted - 2003.12.14 22:04:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Hellmar on 14/12/2003 22:07:05
As promised we will start to address the squatters with Castor. Squatters are player corps/alliances that reside at NPC stations, kill the members of the corp owning the NPC station and even refine the loot from said killings at no cost at the station. This is of course only the first step to address them, docking fees are the ultimate of course.
We have done the following:
- The "we take" part of refining is now calculated from the net yield of the refine, not the unrecoverable part. This makes players with uber skill still affected by "we take", thus no squatting unless with alts, but there is little fighting that
 , at least they have to be uber alts now due to new skills 
- There are 17 new specialty skills added. 16 skills per ore type for refining and one Scrapmetal Processing for reprocessing
- Since release we have had support for station equipment quality and that is now worked into the over all effect. Equipment quality ranges from 20%-50% combined with skill mean that a refiner that has trained refining, refining efficiency and the specialty skill required can refine at no loss at 50% and 40% stations. At 30% stations his net efficiency is 91.8%. This is excluding all "we take" due to standing
- Most of these information is now shown in the reprocessing window and how your skills and standing affect your return
- Currently all stations are 50% and will stay like that for some time. We are data mining existing refinery and market transaction logs to define the refinery equipment quality for stations.
- Currently all corporations use the same values for "we take" standing discount or surcharge, we will evolve the severity the corporations regard good and bad standing as their corporate cultures get more defined.
Please review and give us your comments.
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Morkt Drakt
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Posted - 2003.12.14 22:27:00 -
[2]
 Quote:
The "we take" part of refining is now calculated from the net yield of the refine, not the unrecoverable part. This makes players with uber skill still affected by "we take", thus no squatting unless with alts, but there is little fighting that , at least they have to be uber alts now due to new skills
Me not understand the bit about squatting and alts....
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Victoria Madison
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Posted - 2003.12.14 22:32:00 -
[3]
You're not the only one confused here Morkt.
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ClawHammer III
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Posted - 2003.12.14 22:33:00 -
[4]
Quote:
Quote:
The "we take" part of refining is now calculated from the net yield of the refine, not the unrecoverable part. This makes players with uber skill still affected by "we take", thus no squatting unless with alts, but there is little fighting that , at least they have to be uber alts now due to new skills
Me not understand the bit about squatting and alts....
I think he means that this is an attempt to combat why my corp calls ôloot miningö. The simplest solution to me would be to decrease the amount of loot drops. Most of the stuff they drop is worthless anyway. ThatÆs the main reason why it is recycled.
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ga'ia
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Posted - 2003.12.14 22:36:00 -
[5]
eh? 
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Morkt Drakt
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Posted - 2003.12.14 22:37:00 -
[6]
Edited by: Morkt Drak on 14/12/2003 22:38:57
I know the aim Claw, just the method is entirely unclear.
I "think" hes saying that if the playr char that refines the loot is also one that killed the NPC that the loot came from, and that that NPC faction owns the station, then the "we take" element will be much higher.
In which case:
How do you determine this?
and:
Alts or non-hunting refiners completely bypass this anyway so...
erm..
more details pls 
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Arthur Guinness
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Posted - 2003.12.14 22:43:00 -
[7]
The we-take part will be affected by the standing that's what it means.
bad standings from killing lots of npc's = bad recycle results.
basically it means, refiner shouldn't kill npc's and they should do missions to gain standings. |
Halo Jones
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Posted - 2003.12.14 22:46:00 -
[8]
what i think they mena, is if u stay in a rat infetsed area, kill the rats, lose standing to the station, now the station will fine your corp, by increasing the 'we take' component
thus if u have a trained refine alt at the station, they wont lose fation, so thats a 'workaround' for the initial we take.
isn't 50% one hell of a lot, for basic players?
Oberon Incorporated. |
Victoria Madison
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Posted - 2003.12.14 22:49:00 -
[9]
I didn't know this is such a big problem. I've killed lots of Serpentis rats, but I've never been to a Serpentis station.
Hmmmmm...would love to have Hellmar clarify things a bit. 
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nono
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Posted - 2003.12.14 22:52:00 -
[10]
17 new skills? 16 PER ore type?
So instead of nerfing two skills people have trained forever to get (REF/REF EFF)you introduce another set of skills 17! in total to achieve the same effect? Are we going to need lvl 5 in each specialty too? 85 levels?!
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PsychoClown
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Posted - 2003.12.14 22:55:00 -
[11]
So your reducing ways to get mega even more.
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Artean
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Posted - 2003.12.14 22:59:00 -
[12]
Players have demanded an increased specialization in EVE since day one. This is an additional step in that direction. |
Chepe Nolon
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Posted - 2003.12.14 23:01:00 -
[13]
I like it. Now I won't train refining at all. One thing I felt when starting with eve, was that everybody could do everything, as long as they played long enough.
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Jash Illian
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Posted - 2003.12.14 23:05:00 -
[14]
Edited by: Jash Illian on 14/12/2003 23:14:20
Edited by: Jash Illian on 14/12/2003 23:06:54
Looks like:
- Refining + Refining Efficiency 5 != 0 loss any more. May now need a specialization skill for the ore type being refined not to waste minerals
- Stations have a quality level for their refining equipment. Stations with subpar equipment can cause you to lose minerals while refining regardless of your skill
- NPC corps currently charge the same rate for refining at their stations. Will change sometime in the future based on the NPC corporation's culture (mining corps charge less/more for refining at their station than military corps)
- NPC corps ignore standings when charging for using their refinery. Will change in the future based on your standings towards that corporation
So in the end a station in Fountain might have subpar equipment (since they're pirates, not miners), might charge more for using their refineries (since they're not miners, they need more minerals) and will charge more for using their refineries if you or your corp been out killing their corpmates all day.
I mean its like you want corporations to oblige each other like its sex or something. Pffft I would rather **** my enemy.- Rohann
Be careful out there. That other guy waiting in the queue for the gate MIGHT be a baby-munching frock-burner, YOU JUST DON'T KNOW!- Lallante |
Blueblooded
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Posted - 2003.12.14 23:06:00 -
[15]
Quote:
So your reducing ways to get mega even more.
That could be compensated with more ore respawn and the reintroducing of arcanor...right?
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"The royal blood is blue, hence my name"
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Morkt Drakt
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Posted - 2003.12.14 23:10:00 -
[16]
He means 1 per ore type (1 extra skill per ore type) and 1 for "scrap/loot" making 17 in all.
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Halo Jones
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Posted - 2003.12.14 23:13:00 -
[17]
Edited by: Halo Jones on 14/12/2003 23:17:22
Edited by: Halo Jones on 14/12/2003 23:16:26
16 ores types? eh?
1 Veldspar
2 Scordite
3 Pyroxeres
4 Plagioclase
5 Omber
6 Kernite
7 Jaspet
8 Hemorphite
9 Hedbergite
10 Gneiss
11 Dark Ochre
12 Spodumain
13 Crokite
14 Bistot
15 Arkonor
and our new best friend
16 Mercoxit/morphite gah can't remember which is which
17 Scrap metal
Oberon Incorporated. |
PropanElgen
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Posted - 2003.12.14 23:14:00 -
[18]
Oh great. Nerfing refiners too.
What is up with the nerfbat swinging these days?
All the angels and the puny men of god looked away...
Frightened to death by the evil that was born on that day!
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Morkt Drakt
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Posted - 2003.12.14 23:21:00 -
[19]
Edited by: Morkt Drak on 14/12/2003 23:22:17
it looks like a nerf superficially but its a bit deeper than that and may well work out rather well... certainly encourages some dedicated specialisation and (down the line) hoepfullly positive standings will count just as much as negative standings for specific refinery corps/players.
Interesting times.
(Especially for those in sovereign space)
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Stoop
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Posted - 2003.12.14 23:30:00 -
[20]
From the way I am reading it, you only need to train the skill to lvl 1 and then you can refine that ore type. Even if the skill is a lvl 8, thats still only a couple hours per one. And dont tell me you have all 17 different things to refine right now. Within a few horus you could train all the skills that are immediately pertinent to you.
If this is the case, ti really doesnt cause speciliazation, its not that big of a deal to lose 1 day time for all of this.
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Darkwolf
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Posted - 2003.12.14 23:32:00 -
[21]
You know the irony?
Hellmar wishes to stop 'squatters', so he introduces SIXTEEN new skills to mess up ORE refiners, and only ONE skill to mess up LOOT refiners.
Thus, your loot squatter just trains up one skill to an acceptable margin, and off he goes. Your ore refiners, all over EVE, suddenly find they have to train 6 or so of those skills to remain competitive (no miner exclusively mines just one ore - remember how we need proportions of all minerals to build stuff?).
Madness.
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Darkwolf
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Posted - 2003.12.14 23:34:00 -
[22]
Edited by: Darkwolf on 14/12/2003 23:40:40
Finally, I can edit this post - I had to make a post in a different board first.
Damn double posts.
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nono
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Posted - 2003.12.14 23:40:00 -
[23]
Edited by: nono on 14/12/2003 23:43:22
With Hellmar dropping these wonderful changes and disappearing we can only speculate eh?
You there Hellmar or to busy enjoying the show to reply? Popcorn anyone?
On with the speculation on this wonderous world of specialization.
You train Refining and then Refining efficiency to be able to refine at the most efficient level. Somewhere around a months time (average). To go to this level you have specialized somewhat already as most will use thier time for other skills.
Now you need a new skill to refine EACH ore. If for instance they are all rank 1 (Ref Eff is rank3)you will need approx 17 weeks to get back to where you were when you trained up to lvl5 RefEff. NPC standings asidde from this.
Talk about moving the goal post into the next district. Can we look forward to 17 new navigation/gunnery/missle/engineering/electronics.....etc. skills as well?
And like the 17 new research skills will we have to blow agents for these as well?
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SerpentBlade
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Posted - 2003.12.15 00:32:00 -
[24]
WHINE WHINE WHINE WHINE WHINE...
Can we just see how this all turns out before you people explode about what it may turn into. So this game is forcing you to specialize.. i'd say its about time, and perhaps you'll now have to be specializing in certain ores only.
Flame me all you want.. but the only thing i EVER see on these boards is whining about something you aren't even sure about. I've finally snapped while reading this thread. So a refiner now needs more skills (which you don't know what they actually do, be it give ore bonuses and whatnot). How about we wait for some sort of confirmation on whats coming out, before you people start running your mouth about you being displeased... i saw it on another post, so credit to whoever first said it: "Games evolving, start doing it yourselves"
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I don't have a signature. |
j0sephine
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Posted - 2003.12.15 00:35:00 -
[25]
Edited by: j0sephine on 15/12/2003 00:38:43
"Talk about moving the goal post into the next district. Can we look forward to 17 new navigation/gunnery/missle/engineering/electronics.....etc. skills as well?"
... There already is separate skill for each gun type and size, as well as for each missile type and for each class of equipment, plus additional skills to increase efficiency. Ironically enough it makes more than 17 skills in just the Gunnery branch, with other combat equipment requiring well over 30 extra skills.
The miners only now receive the same treatment. (and still to limited degree)
"And like the 17 new research skills will we have to blow agents for these as well?"
Try 25 skills, that's the Science skill tree in Castor. :s
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Blueblooded
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Posted - 2003.12.15 01:02:00 -
[26]
I think that it is good to make more specialized characters - and this change might make the refining profession more valueble...but
16+1 skills is alot...I would rather had seen maby 4+1:
1 skill for common ore (veldespar - Omber)
1 skill for semi rare ore (kernite - Gneiss)
1 skill for rare ore (Dark Ochre - Arkonor)
1 skill for deap core ore (the new one..=)
1 skill for reprocessing
And to make it more worth the time, set the rank to at least 5 as with the new research skills...
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"The royal blood is blue, hence my name"
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Long Reach
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Posted - 2003.12.15 01:10:00 -
[27]
I believe the sqauters he refers to are convoy killers who just wait till they can dock after smacking a convoy down that just left station and for example sahtogas which is claimed by blood raiders, hunting there killing blood raiders then going to the blood raider logistical support base to recycle.
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Uuldahan
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Posted - 2003.12.15 01:11:00 -
[28]
On the paper it's good.
More specialisations -> various ways of playing -> each player has his own strategy / departments in corps make sense -> feeling to be unique -> better.
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Reah
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Posted - 2003.12.15 01:16:00 -
[29]
if refining becomes standing based
it wont matter mutch for those who operate mostly in 0.0 space as u dont lose standings there and thus the worst ur gonna be is neutral
or am i wrong? or are u planing to make it so that u can gain/lose strandings in non empire space? :)
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Morkt Drakt
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Posted - 2003.12.15 01:17:00 -
[30]
Im not sure i understand the angst from these changes - the position is equal to all palyers so everything remains relative.
All it does is encourage, rather create, the opportunity for specialisation.
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