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Posted - 2003.12.15 01:47:00 -
[31]
All of this looks cherry to me, whatever can slow this damn game down a little, it progresses WAY too fast.
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http://ota-corps.otaku.jp -- Anime l33t level
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Kaylon Syi
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Posted - 2003.12.15 01:55:00 -
[32]
 Quote:
From the way I am reading it, you only need to train the skill to lvl 1 and then you can refine that ore type. Even if the skill is a lvl 8, thats still only a couple hours per one. And dont tell me you have all 17 different things to refine right now. Within a few horus you could train all the skills that are immediately pertinent to you.
If this is the case, ti really doesnt cause speciliazation, its not that big of a deal to lose 1 day time for all of this.
Are you missiong the big picture ? I could have a level 1 of anything in the game but if I want the skill to make me money or keep my but alive I need to train it higher than lvl 1.
Thus if I find a belt with Dark Ochre and want to make my time count... I need to have the best refine ability for Dark Ochre or find someone who does. Im not gonna mine DO and then waste everything at lvl 1. I'm sure that there will be a bonus per lvl trained like the other skills.
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Annatar
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Posted - 2003.12.15 02:06:00 -
[33]
Intresting, intresting.
More specialisation would be good for the community. But hey, i mean 17 New Skill¦s does that make sense? 3 Skills in Meachanic, and 1 at leadership, 1 at trade, but 17 in Mining...
i like the way you deal CCP if you nerve err.. i mean "specialised" something than you do with full force. like with a 1400mm Scout on a Shuttle. The Post above about 4+1 New skills sounds good.
Next time i open my Skills i have a 45 sec. lag due load laggggg.. *just kidding*
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Never argue with an Idoit, they will drag you down to their Level and beat you with experience. |
Cao Cao
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Posted - 2003.12.15 03:27:00 -
[34]
Ace idea, Hellmar. I like it, and I have an alt with refining 5 / refinery efficiency 5. Too many people can do just what I have done --- now the people who truly want to specialize in refining have a way to distinguish themselves from people like me who drop three weeks and get the l33t abilities.
Very very good.... I think the developers are finally learning how to develop.
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Luther Pendragon
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Posted - 2003.12.15 08:11:00 -
[35]
yay! excellent changes! more specializations, more chances for more people to pay a role, spreading the wealth and creating dynamic player interact.
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Taggart wants YOU. Join TTi!
*waves his hand in your face in the jedi way* |
MyZteRio
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Posted - 2003.12.15 08:25:00 -
[36]
Coming Tuesday i finally reach RE5 and am now punished for training it, this is just great.
In one post i see no warp field inhibitor on every gate so i say hey why not renew for 6 months.
Now i read this and it counts 17x more to not doing so.
Abit of extra couldn't hurt, but 17 skills is madness.
Maybe 3 would be ok:
- Low Ores Rank 2
- Mid Ores Rank 3
- High Ores Rank4
Or something like this if u really want to kill miners and refiners do it the 17 skills way.
Im a treu miner refiner and now when i mine i shoot rats to defend myself, the dock at station and get punished for defending myself?
So harder rats will hurt me when mining and refining nerf will hurt me when refining.
At least i can still haul the old way else it would be triple hurt.
Sometimes u amaze me to how u can do all this and still think it will get better.
Why do u always think up crazy stuff need alot of *****ing then realize what u did and change it back again to something better?
Anyway, i will see how it turns out on tq after patch, but prepare for the "Eternal Flame."
Why am i not surprised?
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A virtual Life takes 1/2 a lifetime, if it's worth living. |
Luther Pendragon
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Posted - 2003.12.15 08:37:00 -
[37]
Edited by: Luther Pendragon on 15/12/2003 08:38:21
Quote:
Coming Tuesday i finally reach RE5 and am now punished for training it, this is just great.
Punished? Yeah right. This is the chance where you have just caught up with all the other people with lvl 5 skills and are now on an even footing with them to be one of the very few best to specialize in a niche field. The others have been lvl 5 for months and now a runt like you who just trained up has now exactly the same chance to be the best speicalist? I dont feel sorry for you at all.
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Taggart wants YOU. Join TTi!
*waves his hand in your face in the jedi way* |
Artean
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Posted - 2003.12.15 09:07:00 -
[38]
Punished? Are u just plain stupid, or was it a bad joke? |
Pod Me
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Posted - 2003.12.15 09:20:00 -
[39]
I *think* I like this idea, so long as these are not just enabling skills. By that I mean "don't have skill you can't do it, have lvl1 skill you're perfect".
So long as there will be additional benefit to training the skills beyond lvl1, this is a nice idea, otherwise it'll just clutter up the character sheet.
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MyZteRio
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Posted - 2003.12.15 09:39:00 -
[40]
Read punished as in i trained as long as others but cannot get the same result from it.
Ok so EVE changes, everyone knows and i accept that, thats in part what makes it fun.
Also i wanted to specialise in refining abit so i trained 3 weeks to get to RE5 above also the Refining 5.
Now i will get punished to specialise because i must train 17 skills to attain my first set goal.
If it is so this will be ingame for sure yes i will also have an advantage for already having this base skill i realise that, but 17 skills is madness.
I agree with that it would be good to have some extra skills for refining to make it a better specialisation.
But do i really train 17 skills to sit in station making isk's from refining?
U can state yeah but fighting has so many skills also etc etc.
A miner needs hauling skills besides mining skils to haul, drone skills or gunnery skills to defend when solo mining refine skills to refine what he mined, do we really need 17 skills to make it a specialisation?
So in short punished is a strong word i know for what i mean. But 17 skills is a very big change aswell. Noone is going to sit in station refining to make money.
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A virtual Life takes 1/2 a lifetime, if it's worth living. |
Vector Victor
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Posted - 2003.12.15 09:54:00 -
[41]
Quote:
Read punished as in i trained as long as others but cannot get the same result from it.
Ok so EVE changes, everyone knows and i accept that, thats in part what makes it fun.
Also i wanted to specialise in refining abit so i trained 3 weeks to get to RE5 above also the Refining 5.
Now i will get punished to specialise because i must train 17 skills to attain my first set goal.
Uhm, youre still not getting it. REF and REFEFF skills are not being nullified, the new skills have ADDED benefits ABOVE REFEFF.
Granted, in the future, stations will take into effect standing and other factors to increase the amount thats wasted when refining, BUT thats why you get the added skills to SPECIALIZE even further to countermand these.
Being against more specialization of classes in a game that only has miners and fighters just mindboggles me 
At least after this we will have Researchers, Manufacturers, Miners, Refiners and Fighters - either as primary og secondary specialization/profession 
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BlackPlague
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Posted - 2003.12.15 10:11:00 -
[42]
So i guess when they introduce ... "ammo skills" you will be jumping up and down for joy?
I can see it now... Im trained for antimatter, carbonized lead, and radio crystals.
Hey... you want specialization!
Additional skills to achieve what i already spent weeks in getting.... that's gonna keep me motivated... (not to mention the increased travel times...etc that will reduce the productivity anyway)
Patch Peeps... step AWAY from the nerfbat..
My Siggie Scares Seleene... Boo! |
MyZteRio
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Posted - 2003.12.15 10:12:00 -
[43]
Quote from my previous post.
I agree with that it would be good to have some extra skills for refining to make it a better specialisation.
But do i really train 17 skills to sit in station making isk's from refining?
U state i am against further specialisation but when u quote, quote rest as well and read what i type all the way. What i state is that in my opinion (so thats not i say its a fact) 17 skills is going over the top.
Just quoting what u need to twist is too easy.
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A virtual Life takes 1/2 a lifetime, if it's worth living. |
j0sephine
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Posted - 2003.12.15 10:23:00 -
[44]
"So i guess when they introduce ... "ammo skills" you will be jumping up and down for joy?"
... Might surprise you, but i suspect most people affected by it would love the idea of say "Advanced Antimatter Ammo Usage" skill that'd increase damage dealt by antimatter ammo by 5% per level. I know i would :s
"Additional skills to achieve what i already spent weeks in getting.... that's gonna keep me motivated..."
You are reading way too much into simple statement:
"There are 17 new specialty skills added. 16 skills per ore type for refining and one Scrapmetal Processing for reprocessing"
... nowhere it says these skills replace your current skills, or how they affect the play at all.
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BlackPlague
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Posted - 2003.12.15 11:12:00 -
[45]
Quote:
... Might surprise you, but i suspect most people affected by it would love the idea of say "Advanced Antimatter Ammo Usage" skill that'd increase damage dealt by antimatter ammo by 5% per level. I know i would :s
You say "advanced" with "increased damage"... that's not what's being introduced. Along the same lines... if you could only hit like a frigate in one sector... a civ gat gun in another, and full force in another, unless you trained for these new per type ammo skills..... etc etc.
Quote:
You are reading way too much into simple statement:
"There are 17 new specialty skills added. 16 skills per ore type for refining and one Scrapmetal Processing for reprocessing"
... nowhere it says these skills replace your current skills, or how they affect the play at all.
The "we take" part of refining is now calculated from the net yield of the refine, not the unrecoverable part.
My Siggie Scares Seleene... Boo! |
Blueblooded
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Posted - 2003.12.15 11:32:00 -
[46]
A modified idea...
Isn't it mineral extraction? then maby you should have like a Tritanium extraction skill to maximize the amount of tritanium extraxted, if you get my point...
Instead of having 16 skills, one for each ore type you could have 8, one for each mineral type instead witch affect the amount extracted of that specific mineral.
It feels more logic...I think 
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"The royal blood is blue, hence my name"
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Cikster
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Posted - 2003.12.15 12:13:00 -
[47]
Quote:
A modified idea...
Isn't it mineral extraction? then maby you should have like a Tritanium extraction skill to maximize the amount of tritanium extraxted, if you get my point...
Instead of having 16 skills, one for each ore type you could have 8, one for each mineral type instead witch affect the amount extracted of that specific mineral.
It feels more logic...I think
I agree with this, 1 skill per mineral sounds much more locical then 1 skill per ore.
Maybe there should be 1 skill per gun insted of 1 skill per size of gun. (sorry, just hope hellmar does not read this comment of mine)
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Kerr AVON
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Posted - 2003.12.15 13:21:00 -
[48]
nice idea Blueblooded.
Mineral extraction is an interesting way to go - higher level skills for zydrine/mega.
I love extra specialisation, as I have Refining 5 / Refining Efficiency 5, and would like to add more value to my character in this field.
_____________________
Questions are a burden to others; answers a prison for oneself
Combat Your 250mm Railgun II perfectly strikes Blood Arch Engraver, wrecking for 737.7 damage. |
Ruffles
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Posted - 2003.12.15 13:50:00 -
[49]
I am sorry, but I agree with Darkwolf and MyZteRio.
To distract from the market that is Loot-harvesting, and make that more involved I can understand. After all, it isn't as mind numbingly boring as mining the ore.
I don't care what you say to be honest, you also should consider the commercials. People play to have fun, and if this is going to impact as massively on the mineral supply chain as I can picture, then you have a very poor understanding of fun.
I do NOT, may I repeat that do NOT, nor do I believe anyone else that has mined for hours on end finds it FUN. Most people I know spend hours reading books or web pages, and just dragging ore from hold-to-can.
Hellmar, seriously, refining additional skills. Nice idea.
Quantity of implementation: A little silly I am sorry to say. Really I don't see why you haven't just introduced a Recycling Skill to address the loot-harvest mining you seem to be concerned about.
I really don't intend to spend my time mining all the time, and mining more hours because of potentiall big cuts like this might bring may very well bore some customers.
Hell I have mined for months as my characters main contribution to the corp is mining and building. I have a lot of patience, but even now the mining is starting to annoy me. Its brainless, lacking involvement, lacking variation, lacking lots.
If this has as big an impact on the available supply of minerals, you could see more people 'having' to mine more to just get the same output that the factories won't change. Lets face it, unless you have changed the factories output, the demand will be the same, the supply will be weaker.
That additional mining time isn't exciting.
Thats your big issue here. The losses are respectible, the number of additional skills a little toooo over the top as regards the One-for-each-ore type in an honest opinion.
SerpentBlade: Sorry bud, but you have to factor in the work-to-fun ratio. This is a PAID for game after all, and if you want to spend your months paying to sit and watch a rock even more, thats fine for you. The work-to-fun ratio is already too high in my opinion when it comes to mining (well, where is the fun to be brutially honest?) and you really have to factor that into choices like this. That additional mining time won't interest that many people I am sorry to say. Its not a whine, thats an honest piece of constructive criticism.
If you like it or not, people have already left the game due to the comparison to a big mining simulator with less involvement/interaction. Bare in mind these are customers, and you need to keep their attention. Mining more just won't do that. Sorry.
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Redundancy
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Posted - 2003.12.15 13:51:00 -
[50]
From what I've read in the first post, this will reduce the station camping because now the 'we take' part remains a big art of the equation regardless of how high your own efficiency skills are. If you're blowing up their convoy ships outside the station, you're going to be paying them a lot of it in terms of the we-take. Additionally, once they've finished data mining for what they're looking for, they can reduce the quality of the equipment at those stations where the effect is worst.
Redundancy |
drunkenmaster
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Posted - 2003.12.15 13:54:00 -
[51]
I think this is a cool idea.
The more skills available the better.
any monkey can spare the time to get Ref and RefEff, it's hardly specialising.
Now it will make a difference.
I can't understand all the moaning that people are being nerfed, though. everyone with refeff5 will *still* have refeff5 after the patch.
The only difference will be the people who want to shave a little more off the cost will train up the necessary skills to do that.
It's not like you'l lbe banned from refining this stuff if you haven't learnt the skill.
I wish the other skill areas had trees as complex as this one, the gunnery one, and the new science ones.
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Ruffles
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Posted - 2003.12.15 13:57:00 -
[52]
Blueblood, that is a far better thought to be fair. Its far more logical idea which has more merit then the current slight overdose of skills imo.
Redundancy, I still don't see why the additional 16 skills are needed for miners to hit the same issues though?
If this is some means to address this convo-nailing-refining situation you are talking about, what is the reasoning for the ore skills? Why not just make a Equipment Recycling skill if thats the main focus?
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Shevar
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Posted - 2003.12.15 13:59:00 -
[53]
Edited by: Shevar on 15/12/2003 14:00:26
ARCH why is this put into castor this late? Hadnt you guys put in a code stop last week? Shouldnt you guys just patch more often so you dont have to put stuff in last min... Since i really dont see why the hybrid weapons balance, new faction systems, bs npc's should be put back again for this..
 
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-The only real drug problem is scoring real good drugs
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Albar Gray
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Posted - 2003.12.15 14:00:00 -
[54]
As I see it mining and refining are 2 completely different things. I can mine real good  , but can't refine for **** . That's what my corp mates are for, filling in where I don't have the skills.
And I don't see why this should cut your income as a miner. If you sell your ore, then the new fractional pricing sould possibly see you getting richer.
And if as a refiner, there are less minerals, then increase the price when you sell them on, or try to get the ore cheaper. Specialise in an area and make your profit there.
The market is dynamic, and mineral supply to the big manufacturing corps will change with time. There is no reason why all, if any reduction has to be carried by the refiner.
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IÆm not schizophrenic...
ThatÆs my alt
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Deus
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Posted - 2003.12.15 14:04:00 -
[55]
introducing these skills like this is nuts.
A better way for "specialisation" would definately be the per mineral, or the low/mid/high/recycle.
I'd put money on it that to get the same refine as you did with just ref and prod eff5, your going to need lvl5 in the particular asteroid skill and probably 5.0+ standing with the corporation/faction. (once they implement all the changes properly)
Now they need to introduce skills for each ammo type, skills for "mining" each asteroid type, etc etc.
STK Scientific
Vae, puto deus fio! |
Ruffles
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Posted - 2003.12.15 14:39:00 -
[56]
Quote:
I'd put money on it that to get the same refine as you did with just ref and prod eff5, your going to need lvl5 in the particular asteroid skill and probably 5.0+ standing with the corporation/faction. (once they implement all the changes properly)
Lacking further information on it, this is all we can likely assume the effect will be. Please, if someone has more information I would love to hear it  (Please give us an answer on that one hellmar).
IF this is the case, it would be more akin to saying your weapon ammo will do 25% or 50% less damage then they currently do until you spec level 5 in each ammo type. Would this be a more acceptable conversion for you combat turret spec'd people already (purely a question)?
Refining and mining aren't completely seperate, and I am not complaining about my individual ability to make money, please don't view this that way. I am saying if you instantly reduce the output of refining the same quantity of ore, and require specialisation to get the same result you previously had, the supply of minerals on a GLOBAL scale will not continue to meet the ability to consume those resources in construction.
That will mean more mining to meet the same requirements, which is where and why I brought in the link.
Yes I have a curse of viewing too many links down from a cause, sorry about that, and you will likely always see me posting comments about negative effects. Sorry again, but someone has to surely put in the counter views?
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Balack
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Posted - 2003.12.15 15:02:00 -
[57]
Could somebody who know's for CERTAIN please answer the following questions to stop all this pointless chatter and speculation:-
- What are the skill training multipliers?
- Where will we get the skills from ( agents for market)?
- Currently RE5 gives you +30%, has this changed?
Balack.
Also my preferred choice would also be based on the minerals not the ores
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Juan Andalusian
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Posted - 2003.12.15 15:09:00 -
[58]
Quote:
"So i guess when they introduce ... "ammo skills" you will be jumping up and down for joy?"
... Might surprise you, but i suspect most people affected by it would love the idea of say "Advanced Antimatter Ammo Usage" skill that'd increase damage dealt by antimatter ammo by 5% per level. I know i would :s
"Additional skills to achieve what i already spent weeks in getting.... that's gonna keep me motivated..."
You are reading way too much into simple statement:
"There are 17 new specialty skills added. 16 skills per ore type for refining and one Scrapmetal Processing for reprocessing"
... nowhere it says these skills replace your current skills, or how they affect the play at all.
Give me 20 more skills for ammo types, another 20 for turret range types, another 20 for turret size types and i 'll be your gimp for life.
**Pain is meant to be felt** |
Newg Runecasting
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Posted - 2003.12.15 15:35:00 -
[59]
Quote:
- Currently RE5 gives you +30%, has this changed?
Me Thinks it's 32%
_______________________________
Newg Runecasting -- CEO
-(o)-
Red Eye
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Uuldahan
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Posted - 2003.12.15 15:49:00 -
[60]
Yeah introduce as many skills as you can CCP. I was thinking the other day about a skill specialisation per ship? This could be a good idea to drive some ships better than others? Also, That'd make sense, each ship'd have some bonus relative to their style 
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