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MaidMarion
FarCry Inc
Curse Alliance
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Posted - 2007.02.17 16:12:00 -
[31]
 Originally by: Jiekon
If you are talking about shooting his containers or wrecks to cause agression, then no, it is not allowed. This is an exploit and it will be fixed ASAP.
If you are sitting with a guy and he says "ok, i'm logging off now" and you shoot him, that is fine.
Visible Aggro Timer in 0.0 now pls !!!
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Einheriar Ulrich
Minmatar
FATAL REVELATIONS
FATAL Alliance
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Posted - 2007.02.17 16:13:00 -
[32]
Originally by: NightmareX
Edited by: NightmareX on 17/02/2007 15:51:44
Originally by: Einheriar Ulrich
Originally by: Goumindong
Originally by: Dark Shikari
1. The titan pilot was outside of the bubble. AFAIK, inside, you cannot set off a smartbomb.
2. The titan pilot had damage messages off.
If either of these were not true, the titan would likely have not been lost.
True, but that matters little to the question of whether or not maniuplating game mechanics in order to achieve an unintended result is an exploit or not.
CCP states "It Is Not An Exploit", and still you question if the tactic was an exploit....
Aye, CCP doesn't say anything about that's an exploit, CCP is only saying that it's allowed to shoot a ship after he's logged off.
But that doesn't mean you can use cheap noob tactics ingame to keep the ship there to 15 more mins ONLY because a friendly did shoot you. No enemy, listen what i'm saying here, NOOOOOO ENEMY was at the titan there to agress him when he logged off.
The point by an agression timer is to avoid peoples to NOT log off WHILE you are in combat. Was the Titan in Combat?, ask your self that question, and answer it to
I don't care where or how the Titan pilot logged off, he had no enemy agression timer on him, so then he should not die whatever that are happening after he have logged off.
Your wrong Nightmare, there was a enemy when he logged, who passive targeted him, and fired a single shoot, thus he was agroed, you can say its a cheap trick, that it was not fair.....But it is not cheating nor an exploit, Jiekon, stated it himself, here is a qoute from the D2 statement about the incident.
Originally by: D2/Stament
It seems that the Erebus was being scouted by a internal Spy who has since been identified. This character was flying a cloaked Anathema Covert Ops frigate. Shortly before the Pilot was going to log off, he uncloaked and used a Passive Targeter to lock the Erebus and fired a single shot on him. Seconds after this, the Titan pilot logged.
EVE isnt fair, its unforgiving if you make mistakes.
Originally by: Jiekon/CCP
If you are sitting with a guy and he says "ok, i'm logging off now" and you shoot him, that is fine.
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NightmareX
Caldari
Infinitus Odium
Curse Alliance
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Posted - 2007.02.17 16:19:00 -
[33]
Edited by: NightmareX on 17/02/2007 16:19:36
Edited by: NightmareX on 17/02/2007 16:17:30
Originally by: Einheriar Ulrich
Your wrong Nightmare, there was a enemy when he logged, who passive targeted him, and fired a single shoot, thus he was agroed, you can say its a cheap trick, that it was not fair.....But it is not cheating nor an exploit, Jiekon, stated it himself, here is a qoute from the D2 statement about the incident.
It doesn't help to say if the spy was an enemy or not, HE WAS IN THE SAME CORP / ALLIANCE AS THE TITAN PILOT, yes i writed that in caps-lock.
And therefor no real agression timer, is it really that hard to understand how the agression timer system is working?. Even my grandmother that almost don't know what a computer is can understand that.
Infinitus Odium - We Are The Bringers Of Hatred |
Pepperami
Art of War
Cult of War
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Posted - 2007.02.17 16:22:00 -
[34]
Originally by: NightmareX
Originally by: Einheriar Ulrich
Your wrong Nightmare, there was a enemy when he logged, who passive targeted him, and fired a single shoot, thus he was agroed, you can say its a cheap trick, that it was not fair.....But it is not cheating nor an exploit, Jiekon, stated it himself, here is a qoute from the D2 statement about the incident.
It doesn't help to say if the spy was an enemy or not, HE WAS IN THE SAME CORP / ALLIANCE AS THE TITAN PILOT, yes i writed that in caps-lock. And therefor no agression timer by a friendly shoot.
Actually I think this is a great mechanic. It stops people who web their freighters(unintended mechanic) from also logging them to save them(unintended mechanic).
Instead of concentrating so much on whining hard on the forums, perhaps you should 'help' your coalition in more practical terms in game.
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holla alt
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Posted - 2007.02.17 16:24:00 -
[35]
log a 50-60bn ship in open space outside a pos bubble?
wtf? |
NightmareX
Caldari
Infinitus Odium
Curse Alliance
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Posted - 2007.02.17 16:24:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Pepperami
Originally by: NightmareX
Originally by: Einheriar Ulrich
Your wrong Nightmare, there was a enemy when he logged, who passive targeted him, and fired a single shoot, thus he was agroed, you can say its a cheap trick, that it was not fair.....But it is not cheating nor an exploit, Jiekon, stated it himself, here is a qoute from the D2 statement about the incident.
It doesn't help to say if the spy was an enemy or not, HE WAS IN THE SAME CORP / ALLIANCE AS THE TITAN PILOT, yes i writed that in caps-lock. And therefor no agression timer by a friendly shoot.
Actually I think this is a great mechanic. It stops people who web their freighters(unintended mechanic) from also logging them to save them(unintended mechanic).
Instead of concentrating so much on whining hard on the forums, perhaps you should 'help' your coalition in more practical terms in game.
And you still refuse to accept how the agression timer is supposed to works. I really don't get it
Infinitus Odium - We Are The Bringers Of Hatred |
Pepperami
Art of War
Cult of War
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Posted - 2007.02.17 16:28:00 -
[37]
Originally by: NightmareX
And you still refuse to accept how the agression timer is supposed to works. I really don't get it
If you're engaged in any form of pvp within 15miniutes of logging off you don't disappear for 15 minutes after logging.
Uhm.. It was and it didn't.
The only point that should come from this is the need for a visible timer, much like the criminal one.
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NightmareX
Caldari
Infinitus Odium
Curse Alliance
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Posted - 2007.02.17 16:28:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Pepperami
Originally by: NightmareX
And you still refuse to accept how the agression timer is supposed to works. I really don't get it
If you're engaged in any form of pvp within 15miniutes of logging off you don't disappear for 15 minutes after logging.
Uhm.. It was and it didn't.
The only point that should come from this is the need for a visible timer, much like the criminal one.
Did the Titan PVP at all before he logged?
Infinitus Odium - We Are The Bringers Of Hatred |
Pepperami
Art of War
Cult of War
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Posted - 2007.02.17 16:29:00 -
[39]
Originally by: NightmareX
Originally by: Pepperami
Originally by: NightmareX
And you still refuse to accept how the agression timer is supposed to works. I really don't get it
If you're engaged in any form of pvp within 15miniutes of logging off you don't disappear for 15 minutes after logging.
Uhm.. It was and it didn't.
The only point that should come from this is the need for a visible timer, much like the criminal one.
Did the Titan PVP at all before he logged?
Yes. He was smartbombed.
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NightmareX
Caldari
Infinitus Odium
Curse Alliance
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Posted - 2007.02.17 16:31:00 -
[40]
Edited by: NightmareX on 17/02/2007 16:27:42
Originally by: Pepperami
Originally by: NightmareX
Originally by: Pepperami
Originally by: NightmareX
And you still refuse to accept how the agression timer is supposed to works. I really don't get it
If you're engaged in any form of pvp within 15miniutes of logging off you don't disappear for 15 minutes after logging.
Uhm.. It was and it didn't.
The only point that should come from this is the need for a visible timer, much like the criminal one.
Did the Titan PVP at all before he logged?
Yes. He was smartbombed.
By a friendly spy yes, so that doesn't count as PVP
Infinitus Odium - We Are The Bringers Of Hatred |
Pepperami
Art of War
Cult of War
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Posted - 2007.02.17 16:32:00 -
[41]
Originally by: NightmareX
By a friendly yes, so that doesn't count as PVP
Yes it does. I've been shot by blues before and I know that was pvp.
Haven't you been shot by blues before? I'm pretty sure I remember a story.. Was that not pvp?
I'll answer for you; it was.
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Wibiq
Cloak and Daggers
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Posted - 2007.02.17 16:33:00 -
[42]
Originally by: NightmareX
Edited by: NightmareX on 17/02/2007 16:27:42
Originally by: Pepperami
Originally by: NightmareX
Originally by: Pepperami
Originally by: NightmareX
And you still refuse to accept how the agression timer is supposed to works. I really don't get it
If you're engaged in any form of pvp within 15miniutes of logging off you don't disappear for 15 minutes after logging.
Uhm.. It was and it didn't.
The only point that should come from this is the need for a visible timer, much like the criminal one.
Did the Titan PVP at all before he logged?
Yes. He was smartbombed.
By a friendly spy yes, so that doesn't count as PVP
A (p)layer shot at (v) another (p)layer. How is this not PVP? Intentions don't matter in 0.0 any more than low sec or Empire.
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NightmareX
Caldari
Infinitus Odium
Curse Alliance
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Posted - 2007.02.17 16:36:00 -
[43]
Edited by: NightmareX on 17/02/2007 16:34:29
Originally by: Wibiq
Originally by: NightmareX
Edited by: NightmareX on 17/02/2007 16:27:42
Originally by: Pepperami
Originally by: NightmareX
Originally by: Pepperami
Originally by: NightmareX
And you still refuse to accept how the agression timer is supposed to works. I really don't get it
If you're engaged in any form of pvp within 15miniutes of logging off you don't disappear for 15 minutes after logging.
Uhm.. It was and it didn't.
The only point that should come from this is the need for a visible timer, much like the criminal one.
Did the Titan PVP at all before he logged?
Yes. He was smartbombed.
By a friendly spy yes, so that doesn't count as PVP
A (p)layer shot at (v) another (p)layer. How is this not PVP? Intentions don't matter in 0.0 any more than low sec or Empire.
Say whatever you want, as long the titan pilot was de-agressed for like 3 hours and didn't got ANY messages on that he got a new agression timer right before he logged off, then i will say no, it was no PVP
Infinitus Odium - We Are The Bringers Of Hatred |
Pepperami
Art of War
Cult of War
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Posted - 2007.02.17 16:41:00 -
[44]
Originally by: NightmareX
Say whatever you want, as long the titan pilot was de-agressed for like 3 hours and didn't got ANY messages on that he got a new agression timer right before he logged off, then i will say no, it was no PVP
You get a damage message when smartbombed, your hitpoints also change. Turning off these messages and claiming ignorance is akin to saying a blind person wasn't hit by a bus because he didn't see it coming
Please stop being a fool. I have a lot of friends in infod and it pains me to see your drivel with their corp name under yours.
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Malthros Zenobia
Caldari Independent Navy Reserve
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Posted - 2007.02.17 16:46:00 -
[45]
Originally by: Brukar Vilor
Even if it's friendly fire?
Am rather new to EVE, but the system seems pretty messed up to me with no visible aggro timer and such as far as I get it.
There's nothing 'friendly' about intentionally shooting someone.
Originally by: kieron
The Carrier was never intended to be a solo OMGWTF mission-farming PWNmobile.
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Malthros Zenobia
Caldari Independent Navy Reserve
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Posted - 2007.02.17 16:49:00 -
[46]
Originally by: Zissou
Originally by: Jiekon
If you are sitting with a guy and he says "ok, i'm logging off now" and you shoot him, that is fine.
It's not really fine is it Jiekon? It's an abuse of poorly implemented game mechanics that allow one party to engineer the destruction of a capital asset when a player isn't online.
This is EVE-ONLINE after all.
But if nobody at CCP can appreciate the damage incidents such as this are doing to your game or your reputation then so be it.
If the guy hadn't made it public knowledge he was logging, he'd have lived. Personally, if I have to log in space, I do it in mid-warp.
Originally by: kieron
The Carrier was never intended to be a solo OMGWTF mission-farming PWNmobile.
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Venkul Mul
Gallente
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Posted - 2007.02.17 16:53:00 -
[47]
Originally by: NightmareX
Edited by: NightmareX on 17/02/2007 16:27:42
Originally by: Pepperami
Originally by: NightmareX
Originally by: Pepperami
Originally by: NightmareX
And you still refuse to accept how the agression timer is supposed to works. I really don't get it
If you're engaged in any form of pvp within 15miniutes of logging off you don't disappear for 15 minutes after logging.
Uhm.. It was and it didn't.
The only point that should come from this is the need for a visible timer, much like the criminal one.
Did the Titan PVP at all before he logged?
Yes. He was smartbombed.
By a friendly spy yes, so that doesn't count as PVP
By that logic, I want no PvP flag when shooted by a pirate gatecamp, I wasn't PvPing, they were.
Beging shooted start a PvP flag, and you PvPers can't start saying "but that is no regular PvP" unless you want to be derided by all carebears forever.
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Lori Carlyle
LuthorCorp Combat Division
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Posted - 2007.02.17 16:53:00 -
[48]
Originally by: Pepperami
You get a damage message when smartbombed, your hitpoints also change. Turning off these messages and claiming ignorance is akin to saying a blind person wasn't hit by a bus because he didn't see it coming
Sorry but thats funny as hell 
I do see Nightmares point kinda.. She does have a argument(sp?) but I "think" thats only for aggressive action requireing a target lock.
I could be wrong so please don't flame the smeg outta me if i'm wrong 
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Hong Fire
Will I Ever Forget To Remember..?
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Allantia
FW Inc
Kith of Venal
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Posted - 2007.02.17 16:56:00 -
[49]
Originally by: Jiekon
If you are talking about shooting his containers or wrecks to cause agression, then no, it is not allowed. This is an exploit and it will be fixed ASAP.
By "fixed" do you mean "the actual game bug fixed" or "you'll get your stuff reimbursed if it happens to you"?
If the latter I'd really like to know how you're supposed get your stuff reimbursed when your GM's say that the logs don't contain enough information to confirm that the aggression timer which got you killed came from wreck-sploiting instead of actual PvP.
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Laendra
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Posted - 2007.02.17 16:57:00 -
[50]
Originally by: NightmareX
By a friendly spy yes, so that doesn't count as PVP
Oh, so you're saying that webbing a freighter shouldn't count towards PvP timer? I am all for that. PvP is NOT consentual. Industrial pilots do not have a choice about whether or not they have PvP timer after they get shot, when clearly they didn't engage. Rogue pilots have been in corps for as long as EVE has been around. PvP is Player vs. Player...nowhere in there does it say "Only Corp x against Corp y"
Now that the NightmareX bashing is done, I would be in favor of an Aggro Timer in 0.0 too, so that you KNOW without a doubt that you have PvP timer on. We should not have to rely on out of game methods (checking game logs, which aren't always accurate) to know when it is safe to log off.
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Allantia
FW Inc
Kith of Venal
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Posted - 2007.02.17 17:03:00 -
[51]
Originally by: NightmareX
Say whatever you want, as long the titan pilot was de-agressed for like 3 hours and didn't got ANY messages on that he got a new agression timer right before he logged off, then i will say no, it was no PVP
You know, you don't get any kind of obvious warning that you have aggro (and yes, blue-on-blue gives aggro).
Considering that the majority of people PvP with all effects, sound and damage messages/logging turned off to try and minimize lag, especially in fleet engagements, the Titan pilot probably had no idea at all that it happened. Hence the need for a visible timer everywhere in EVE.
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Audri Fisher
Caldari
The Keep
THE R0CK
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Posted - 2007.02.17 17:31:00 -
[52]
Originally by: Dark Shikari
1. The titan pilot was outside of the bubble. AFAIK, inside, you cannot set off a smartbomb.
2. The titan pilot had damage messages off.
If either of these were not true, the titan would likely have not been lost.
How can you truelly say that if he had damage messeges on, he would have not crashed and been killed cyvok style?
Your signature exceeds the maximum allowed filesize of 24000 bytes -Kreul Intentions ([email protected])
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Vastation
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Posted - 2007.02.17 18:05:00 -
[53]
Seems to me that CCP are making up the rules as they go. So I guess we can go ahead and do whatever we want, if it's easier to endorse it then to fix it then that's what they'll do.
Come on people, come up with very creative ways of manipulating the game mechanics to your advantage!
V
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Crass Spektakel
Amarr
Coreward Technologies
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Posted - 2007.02.17 18:26:00 -
[54]
Well, who cares, even CNN-germany brought the story about the cheating Eve-Devs and so did Golem.de and slashdot.org and tagesschaude.de (the biggest news-tv site in germany) and whoever and still CCP doesn't change anything, I got the hint: Whatever you glitch is ok as long as you alongside with the BoD. Nothing to see, move along.
May Bob win Eve and rule over a Server with maximum 900 players from which 300 are Bob and 100 are Devs. But thats the same anyway.
Crass Spektakel
life is short and in most cases it ends with death
but my tombstone will carry the hiscore
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Sentinel Eeex
Caldari
Gekidoku
Koroshiya Buntai
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Posted - 2007.02.17 18:39:00 -
[55]
Originally by: Jiekon
If you are talking about shooting his containers or wrecks to cause agression, then no, it is not allowed. This is an exploit and it will be fixed ASAP.
If you are sitting with a guy and he says "ok, i'm logging off now" and you shoot him, that is fine.
Then, couldn't you VISUALLY display the damn aggro timer, so that we know we've been shot at?
Many people have sound/effects/messages turned off, because it helps (a lot) with lag.
Are we only supposed to choose between "know if you've been shot, but have 1FPS" and "have 15FPS, but don't know if you've been shot at"?
People have been asking for it, for ages, and CCP is ignoring it. Seeing how Titans are dying, I get to think there might be a "reason" why CCP is avoiding this feature...
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Royaldo
Old Farts
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Posted - 2007.02.17 18:48:00 -
[56]
this is so weak im speachless.
its not even a cheap trick. its just plain weak.
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DunNa
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Posted - 2007.02.17 19:00:00 -
[57]
Originally by: Royaldo
this is so weak im speachless.
its not even a cheap trick. its just plain weak.
Its BoD at there finest
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Larice
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Posted - 2007.02.17 19:04:00 -
[58]
Real life should not cause players to lose ingame stuff, simple as that. The titan pilot was not playing when he lost his ship, so reimbursement is the only logical conclusion.
I have only recently started playing, but the moment I lose stuff when I am eating or sleeping (and not in the game) while I have spent hours playing to get it in the first place, is the moment I move on to other games.
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Ling Xiao
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Posted - 2007.02.17 19:09:00 -
[59]
Real life didn't cause him to lose anything. His own lack of safety precautions, and the vigilance of the spy did.
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Kirov VIII
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Posted - 2007.02.17 19:16:00 -
[60]
I play to EvE-Online or CheatsAllowed-Online ?
I ask me now ... You ban a lot of people for nothing (somes players for have reveal the truth) and when you need to use the ban button, you make nothing or it's not a exploit, not a bug, it's a mistake .. sorry ...
Bump, it's a regular thing too ? Use a collision bug (ship with 1k m3 VS 1b m3, yes a mostico move my car of +200km/h to -3000km/h all day ...)for bump a titan and after use a smartbomb for reactivate the 15min timer (timer used for prevent logoff button) ...
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