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baltec1
Bat Country Pandemic Legion
17631
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Posted - 2016.05.06 12:40:22 -
[331] - Quote
Dracvlad wrote:baltec1 wrote:Dracvlad wrote:
Actually the Goons were funding CODE, we know differently.
Problem with this argument is code didn't exist back then. OK lets deal with that one: http://www.minerbumping.com/2012/12/any-day-now.html And the first sentence is: Nearly five months ago, I declared I was taking command of the ice field in Halaima. Since then, my Agents and I have been endlessly threatened and conspired against by our enemies. For some reason, though, the Big Attack never seems to occur. So July 2012.
Bat Countrys Ice interdiction, February 2012. |
Lucas Kell
Evolution. SpaceMonkey's Alliance
7632
|
Posted - 2016.05.06 13:06:03 -
[332] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Ganks happen, profitable ganks don't. Sure they do, just not apparently by you because your target selection and attack methods are flawed because you're lazy.
baltec1 wrote:No you didn't. This is just like when you "saw" people bumping freighters for an hour or when "saw" no freighters making it past the famous choke points. Yes I did. Feel free to look up the recent orca kill by Manjiro within the last few days on zkb.
At the end of the day you're still banging on about procurers and skiffs as if they are the only barges used, ignoring the fact that by choosing them the pilot is choosing to tank (thus are not untanked), and you're still pretending the only method of pirating people in highsec is ganking and that ganking isn't profitable which is demonstrably false. You are a prime example of the type of player you claim to hate. HTFU.
The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.
Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
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baltec1
Bat Country Pandemic Legion
17632
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Posted - 2016.05.06 13:20:29 -
[333] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:baltec1 wrote:Ganks happen, profitable ganks don't. Sure they do, just not apparently by you because your target selection and attack methods are flawed because you're lazy. baltec1 wrote:No you didn't. This is just like when you "saw" people bumping freighters for an hour or when "saw" no freighters making it past the famous choke points. Yes I did. Feel free to look up the recent orca kill by Manjiro within the last few days on zkb. At the end of the day you're still banging on about procurers and skiffs as if they are the only barges used, ignoring the fact that by choosing them the pilot is choosing to tank (thus are not untanked), and you're still pretending the only method of pirating people in highsec is ganking and that ganking isn't profitable which is demonstrably false. You are a prime example of the type of player you claim to hate. HTFU.
I have twice now shown you the maths on this, twice I have shown you that its a loss making operation. If there was money to be had we wouldn't be in the situation where code is the only organisation ganking miners.
We also should not be in the situation where CCP are pre fitting our ships for us. |
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine Second-Dawn
1511
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Posted - 2016.05.06 13:33:52 -
[334] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Dracvlad wrote:baltec1 wrote:Dracvlad wrote:
Actually the Goons were funding CODE, we know differently.
Problem with this argument is code didn't exist back then. OK lets deal with that one: http://www.minerbumping.com/2012/12/any-day-now.html And the first sentence is: Nearly five months ago, I declared I was taking command of the ice field in Halaima. Since then, my Agents and I have been endlessly threatened and conspired against by our enemies. For some reason, though, the Big Attack never seems to occur. So July 2012. Bat Countrys Ice interdiction, February 2012. Hulkageddon started in 2009. Code wasnt a power until after the barge changes when people joined its rank in protest of CCP removing their professions and content.
Bat County was Goons, hi Endie..., James 315 was is a Goon, do you remember Gobby's screen print of his thefts and how many of the ships including Talos's and Brutix's were called John Maddens whatever.
Hulkageddon was started by a non-Goon, but that matters not.
Code was operating before the buff to tank on mining ships, they were especially active in Gallente and Caldari space and that was linked in with certain top level Goons having lots of Gallente ice. I rather like that as a reason to gank mining ships, to put the price up of Gallente ice.
Ella's Snack bar. The Hisec sandbox is basically no longer a themepark for gankers now that CCP have rebalanced key areas. Well done CCP
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Geronimo McVain
McVain's Minning and Exploration Inc
50
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Posted - 2016.05.06 13:46:31 -
[335] - Quote
Memphis Baas wrote:Geronimo McVain wrote:Without minerals no ships or modules. If you can't make a buck with mining where do you think the minerals will come from? High sec mining, which is one side of the argument in this thread, is completely unnecessary to the economy. They're arguing about the profitability of mining and the availability of miners as gank targets, when in fact it's a situation similar to lowsec being "empty" (full of pirates, no carebears can be convinced to go there). Now, if CCP could accomplish making all other high-sec activities completely unnecessary to the economy, easily supplanted by low or null or wormhole activities, then we'd have something. Just take a look at the economic Report: mining. And have a look which Null/low regions are in the upper tiers: None. Why not? You pointed out yourself that the ores are much better.
Eves strength is, that there is something for everybody. Do you really think that all miners will go to Null/Low or will they just cancel their account? IMHO this would be a fatal step towards a pure shooter and not a living breathing universe with a niche for everybody. |
Lucas Kell
Evolution. SpaceMonkey's Alliance
7633
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Posted - 2016.05.06 14:04:24 -
[336] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:I have twice now shown you the maths on this, twice I have shown you that its a loss making operation. If there was money to be had we wouldn't be in the situation where code is the only organisation ganking miners.
We also should not be in the situation where CCP are pre fitting our ships for us. No you haven't, you simply stated that it's not then pointed at the tankiest mining barges and said "those can't be ganked for profit if they are empty, therefore highsec piracy is dead". People do gank other exhumers and barges for profit and there's other methods of piracy that also work.
Code already aren't the only group that gank miners, there's plenty of independent gankers, code are just the loudest because their entire existence comes from someone complaining about change and refusing to adapt.
We aren't in a situation where CCP fit our ship for us, different ships simply have different base statistics helping them excel at different tasks. The Ares for example has a better ability to point a target while the Taranis has more damage output naturally. It's the same for barges, there's one that naturally has more yield, one that naturally has more capacity and one that naturally has more tank, then you can build whatever you want into that hull. Your entire problem comes down to being upset that if someone chooses a ship that favours tank over yield that they become more difficult to gank. You're sad that there's not enough stupid people for you to be able to fill your boots with gank victims loot. Get better at piracy.
The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.
Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
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Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
7649
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Posted - 2016.05.06 16:14:14 -
[337] - Quote
Dracvlad wrote:Tisiphone Dira wrote:lol people sending mails thanking you for your valiant posting on eve forums? I call bull. People have sent me mails saying well done and thanks for standing up on the forums, I had two this week. It is fine taht you do not believe me.
Same thing happens to me. Though not as much.
Bring back DEEEEP Space!
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baltec1
Bat Country Pandemic Legion
17634
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Posted - 2016.05.06 16:20:27 -
[338] - Quote
Dracvlad wrote:
Code was operating before the buff to tank on mining ships, they were especially active in Gallente and Caldari space and that was linked in with certain top level Goons having lots of Gallente ice. I rather like that as a reason to gank mining ships, to put the price up of Gallente ice.
Gal ice got targeted because of the bottleneck in POS operations, not because of anything code may or may not have been up to. These attempts are reworking history isn't going to work any better than your claims that barges were profitable to kill no matter what they fitted. |
baltec1
Bat Country Pandemic Legion
17634
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Posted - 2016.05.06 16:22:04 -
[339] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:No you haven't, you simply stated that it's not then pointed at the tankiest mining barges and said "those can't be ganked for profit if they are empty, therefore highsec piracy is dead". People do gank other exhumers and barges for profit and there's other methods of piracy that also work.
I used the hulk because not only was that the ship everyone was flying back then but also because it was the ship with the most potential profit. |
baltec1
Bat Country Pandemic Legion
17634
|
Posted - 2016.05.06 16:24:19 -
[340] - Quote
Geronimo McVain wrote: Just take a look at the economic Report: mining. And have a look which Null/low regions are in the upper tiers: None. Why not? You pointed out yourself that the ores are much better.
Eves strength is, that there is something for everybody. Do you really think that all miners will go to Null/Low or will they just cancel their account? IMHO this would be a fatal step towards a pure shooter and not a living breathing universe with a niche for everybody.
EVE grew for a decade while miners were profitable to gank and while jetcan theft operated. Your argument is a hollow one. |
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Dracvlad
Taishi Combine Second-Dawn
1518
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Posted - 2016.05.06 16:26:31 -
[341] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Dracvlad wrote:
Code was operating before the buff to tank on mining ships, they were especially active in Gallente and Caldari space and that was linked in with certain top level Goons having lots of Gallente ice. I rather like that as a reason to gank mining ships, to put the price up of Gallente ice.
Gal ice got targeted because of the bottleneck in POS operations, not because of anything code may or may not have been up to. These attempts are reworking history isn't going to work any better than your claims that barges were profitable to kill no matter what they fitted.
Well that was also because the best Super and the best carrier in terms of DPS were Gallente. And the rumour was that certain Goons had a stockpile, a lot of people had taht view or understanding, of course I don't know if those Goons had a stockpile, but it seemed plausible.
As for your second point, T1 fitted Catalysts for the profit...
Ella's Snack bar. The Hisec sandbox is basically no longer a themepark for gankers now that CCP have rebalanced key areas. Well done CCP
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Lucas Kell
Evolution. SpaceMonkey's Alliance
7637
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Posted - 2016.05.06 16:39:58 -
[342] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:I used the hulk because not only was that the ship everyone was flying back then but also because it was the ship with the most potential profit. Where did you use the hulk? An untanked hulk can be killed by what, 2 gankers in 1.5-2m isk catalysts (and much cheaper if built in bulk) and as a T2 fit ice miner will carry a minimum of 10m in modules and upgrades, not to mention that half of the gankers fit will also drop. Hell, a T2 ganker can drop a hulk solo and get 5m from the hulk and 3.5m back from the catalyst quite happily at a cost of about 8m, and that's if you don't even bother shopping around or building your ships.
Not to mention that this is still irrelevant since ships aren't balanced on "their ability to be profitable when ganked empty", and there's a whole array of other ways to commit highsec piracy against miners and profit even more.
Ed: Oh and just so you know, a quick check on osmium tells me that the zealot and the hulk have the same EHP without modules, so since you were using the zealot as the "Oh but this can be ganked" ship, that argument pretty much falls apart when comparing it to the hulk.
The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.
Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
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Frostys Virpio
KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation
2813
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Posted - 2016.05.06 17:01:29 -
[343] - Quote
baltec1 wrote: profitable ganks don't.
That does not mean much unless you somehow manage to prove that the game is supposed to be in a state where ganking is supposed to be profitable. If it's not intended, then piracy, profitable or not is all piracy. Saying it does not happen is also blanketing all the possible stupid fit that can get ganked profitably.
At the end of the day, until someone whose word hold any real weight actaully state if it should be a thing or not, no one can really say if the current or the previous situation is more "normal" than the other. |
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
7649
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Posted - 2016.05.06 17:11:41 -
[344] - Quote
Dracvlad wrote:baltec1 wrote:Dracvlad wrote:
Code was operating before the buff to tank on mining ships, they were especially active in Gallente and Caldari space and that was linked in with certain top level Goons having lots of Gallente ice. I rather like that as a reason to gank mining ships, to put the price up of Gallente ice.
Gal ice got targeted because of the bottleneck in POS operations, not because of anything code may or may not have been up to. These attempts are reworking history isn't going to work any better than your claims that barges were profitable to kill no matter what they fitted. Well that was also because the best Super and the best carrier in terms of DPS were Gallente. And the rumour was that certain Goons had a stockpile, a lot of people had taht view or understanding, of course I don't know if those Goons had a stockpile, but it seemed plausible. As for your second point, T1 fitted Catalysts for the profit...
Leik Darz once gave one of my alts a fitting for a T1 cat saying that an all T2 fit was overkill.
Bring back DEEEEP Space!
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Brokk Witgenstein
Extreme Agony The Wraithguard.
281
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Posted - 2016.05.06 17:12:32 -
[345] - Quote
It was my understanding that minerganking was more of a public relations stunt (which worked wonders as some guys poop their pants even when not in danger) but that this was nothing but an entertaining pass-time.
The PROFIT is made by haulers; and I'm not even talking freighters here but overcharged bestowers, badgers, expensive mods on incursion runners etc. - and yes, expanded cargohold freighters.
I have no idea what Baltec is trying to prove here; we've been wondering for years why gankers blow up our barges if there's no profit to be made, never got a straight reply aside from "UR TEARZ R DELICIUSS" Okay. Fine. You do it for tears, do it for tears then. Don't harp on about profit. You want profit, go after the haulers or the assembly yard POS.
(plus, let's not forget your cheap catalysts were covered by insurance back in the day -- you didn't actually PAY for your loss now did ya?) |
Brokk Witgenstein
Extreme Agony The Wraithguard.
281
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Posted - 2016.05.06 17:15:43 -
[346] - Quote
baltec1 wrote: This thread is about CCP removing content and in this case they have. To me thats not a good thing to be doing, especially given that pvp is the only content mining has.
.....not true. There are social, organized groups at work with anti-gank defenses, boosts, haulers, reprocessing POSses ... there's a lot more at play here than merely sitting in the belt. |
Ralph King-Griffin
Devils Rejects 666 The Devil's Warrior Alliance
15491
|
Posted - 2016.05.06 17:54:57 -
[347] - Quote
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:Dracvlad wrote:Tisiphone Dira wrote:lol people sending mails thanking you for your valiant posting on eve forums? I call bull. People have sent me mails saying well done and thanks for standing up on the forums, I had two this week. It is fine taht you do not believe me. Same thing happens to me. Though not as much. likewise , though the hatemail sorta balances it out.
Better the Devil you know.
=]|[=
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baltec1
Bat Country Pandemic Legion
17634
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Posted - 2016.05.06 19:32:38 -
[348] - Quote
Brokk Witgenstein wrote:It was my understanding that minerganking was more of a public relations stunt (which worked wonders as some guys poop their pants even when not in danger) but that this was nothing but an entertaining pass-time.
The PROFIT is made by haulers; and I'm not even talking freighters here but overcharged bestowers, badgers, expensive mods on incursion runners etc. - and yes, expanded cargohold freighters.
I have no idea what Baltec is trying to prove here; we've been wondering for years why gankers blow up our barges if there's no profit to be made, never got a straight reply aside from "UR TEARZ R DELICIUSS" Okay. Fine. You do it for tears, do it for tears then. Don't harp on about profit. You want profit, go after the haulers or the assembly yard POS.
(plus, let's not forget your cheap catalysts were covered by insurance back in the day -- you didn't actually PAY for your loss now did ya?)
The gank catalyst didnt exist when insurance payouts were a thing, that was an age where the gank battleship was the go to ship.
These days there isn't any reason to gank barges. It really is just for the tears and to make things go boom. |
baltec1
Bat Country Pandemic Legion
17634
|
Posted - 2016.05.06 19:38:28 -
[349] - Quote
Brokk Witgenstein wrote:baltec1 wrote: This thread is about CCP removing content and in this case they have. To me thats not a good thing to be doing, especially given that pvp is the only content mining has.
.....not true. There are social, organized groups at work with anti-gank defenses, boosts, haulers, reprocessing POSses ... there's a lot more at play here than merely sitting in the belt.
You sit a skiff in a belt and go watch TV or play another game, thats as hard as it gets. There is no challenge, no risk, no choices to be made. Just sit there and suck on a rock. It is the single most boring activity in EVE simply because miners whined until CCP removed everything that could possibly make them fail at their task. Literally the only thing left is a gank organisation that will last only so long as people keep on donating to them, and even they will very very rarely form up enough people to take down a skiff. |
Hawke Frost
66
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Posted - 2016.05.06 19:52:50 -
[350] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Brokk Witgenstein wrote:baltec1 wrote: This thread is about CCP removing content and in this case they have. To me thats not a good thing to be doing, especially given that pvp is the only content mining has.
.....not true. There are social, organized groups at work with anti-gank defenses, boosts, haulers, reprocessing POSses ... there's a lot more at play here than merely sitting in the belt. You sit a skiff in a belt and go watch TV or play another game, thats as hard as it gets. There is no challenge, no risk, no choices to be made. Just sit there and suck on a rock. It is the single most boring activity in EVE simply because miners whined until CCP removed everything that could possibly make them fail at their task. Literally the only thing left is a gank organisation that will last only so long as people keep on donating to them, and even they will very very rarely form up enough people to take down a skiff.
You make it sound as if CODE is doing it for the good of humanity. |
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Bumblefck
Kerensky Initiatives
11934
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Posted - 2016.05.06 20:13:50 -
[351] - Quote
Perhaps they are.
Perfection is a dish best served like wasabi .
Bumble's Space Log
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Chewytowel Haklar
Project RESET
146
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Posted - 2016.05.06 20:27:05 -
[352] - Quote
It seems that many players are so disgusted by high sec space they would love for it to stop existing all together. I suppose they don't want there to be any safety's at all, and frankly no need for a war dec system either. I doubt it is simply because they love to explode ships that they hunt down miners or haulers. They simply want all out chaos all the time. No safe havens, no ways to hide, and no safety to help keep you from shooting the wrong things. They want the game to be harder and meaner and remove completely all the things that were done to the game over the years that make space safer.
To them high security space is a perverse piece of cancer in a game that is supposed to be about risk. Those people that have never left high security space are denying them the content they rightly deserve! There is no reason for high sec space to even exist anyway, and it's industrial community isn't needed anyway as they are sufficient without them.
Take off the safety's, remove Concord and their stupid gate guns, and let anyone be targeted all the time without need for wardec's!
That about sum it up? |
John E Normus
New Order Logistics CODE.
798
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Posted - 2016.05.06 21:03:17 -
[353] - Quote
Chewytowel Haklar wrote:It seems that many players are so disgusted by high sec space they would love for it to stop existing all together. I suppose they don't want there to be any safety's at all, and frankly no need for a war dec system either. I doubt it is simply because they love to explode ships that they hunt down miners or haulers. They simply want all out chaos all the time. No safe havens, no ways to hide, and no safety to help keep you from shooting the wrong things. They want the game to be harder and meaner and remove completely all the things that were done to the game over the years that make space safer.
To them high security space is a perverse piece of cancer in a game that is supposed to be about risk. Those people that have never left high security space are denying them the content they rightly deserve! There is no reason for high sec space to even exist anyway, and it's industrial community isn't needed anyway as they are sufficient without them.
Take off the safety's, remove Concord and their stupid gate guns, and let anyone be targeted all the time without need for wardec's!
That about sum it up?
Nah, you're way off.
Between Ignorance and Wisdom
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Hawke Frost
66
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Posted - 2016.05.06 21:14:08 -
[354] - Quote
Chewytowel Haklar wrote:It seems that many players are so disgusted by high sec space they would love for it to stop existing all together. I suppose they don't want there to be any safety's at all, and frankly no need for a war dec system either. I doubt it is simply because they love to explode ships that they hunt down miners or haulers. They simply want all out chaos all the time. No safe havens, no ways to hide, and no safety to help keep you from shooting the wrong things. They want the game to be harder and meaner and remove completely all the things that were done to the game over the years that make space safer.
To them high security space is a perverse piece of cancer in a game that is supposed to be about risk. Those people that have never left high security space are denying them the content they rightly deserve! There is no reason for high sec space to even exist anyway, and it's industrial community isn't needed anyway as they are sufficient without them.
Take off the safety's, remove Concord and their stupid gate guns, and let anyone be targeted all the time without need for wardec's!
That about sum it up?
It's much more simple than that. It's clowns who aren't good enough to actually fight, so their mains are in massive alliances where they just follow orders or they're frustrated industrialists, who then create alts to shoot people who don't shoot back. That's really all there is to it, the rest is all nonsense.
There is an overarching thing going on, or at least there used to be, but the rank & file gankers are not in on that or even aware of it.
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Sentamon
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
2363
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Posted - 2016.05.06 21:25:12 -
[355] - Quote
baltec1 wrote: There is no challenge, no risk, no choices to be made.
Sounds like joining some bloated nullsec corporation.
baltec1 wrote: It is the single most boring activity in EVE .
Yes ... indeed it is.
If you're bored pick a fight with PL. I'm sure they'll provide you with enough excitement and ISK loss that you'll learn to appreciate having a save area to recover in.
Until then you're just an entitled biomass that wants to pick on the weak.
~ Professional Forum Alt -á~
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Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
7652
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Posted - 2016.05.06 21:48:06 -
[356] - Quote
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:Dracvlad wrote:Tisiphone Dira wrote:lol people sending mails thanking you for your valiant posting on eve forums? I call bull. People have sent me mails saying well done and thanks for standing up on the forums, I had two this week. It is fine taht you do not believe me. Same thing happens to me. Though not as much. likewise , though the hatemail sorta balances it out.
From customers or "customers"?
Bring back DEEEEP Space!
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baltec1
Bat Country Pandemic Legion
17635
|
Posted - 2016.05.07 00:26:12 -
[357] - Quote
Sentamon wrote:baltec1 wrote: There is no challenge, no risk, no choices to be made. Sounds like joining some bloated nullsec corporation. baltec1 wrote: It is the single most boring activity in EVE . Yes ... indeed it is. If you're bored pick a fight with PL. I'm sure they'll provide you with enough excitement and ISK loss that you'll learn to appreciate having a highsec area to recover in. Until then you're just an entitled biomass that wants to pick on the weak.
Do we tell him or let him figure this one out? |
Shae Tadaruwa
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
365
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Posted - 2016.05.07 00:29:15 -
[358] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Do we tell him or let him figure this one out? Well, if you can't beat 'em, join 'em.
@Sentamon...in addition to having an unusual fetish for Megathron's, Baltec has an who fleet of them named after him. That's not because of highsec shenanigans. |
Ssabat Thraxx
DUST Expeditionary Team Good Sax
1172
|
Posted - 2016.05.07 00:51:34 -
[359] - Quote
Chewytowel Haklar wrote:It seems that many players are so disgusted by high sec space they would love for it to stop existing all together. I suppose they don't want there to be any safety's at all, and frankly no need for a war dec system either. I doubt it is simply because they love to explode ships that they hunt down miners or haulers. They simply want all out chaos all the time. No safe havens, no ways to hide, and no safety to help keep you from shooting the wrong things. They want the game to be harder and meaner and remove completely all the things that were done to the game over the years that make space safer.
To them high security space is a perverse piece of cancer in a game that is supposed to be about risk. Those people that have never left high security space are denying them the content they rightly deserve! There is no reason for high sec space to even exist anyway, and it's industrial community isn't needed anyway as they are sufficient without them.
Take off the safety's, remove Concord and their stupid gate guns, and let anyone be targeted all the time without need for wardec's!
That about sum it up?
That about sums it up.
Im not a ganker (well I used to gank haulers for profit, but that was a long time ago,) but I think hisec is for the birds.
Also, there's plenty of industry in nullsec. It's not like the games industrial base would crumble witout hisec. It'd probably become more profitable.
\m/ O.o \m/
"You're a freak ..." - Solecist Project
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Ralph King-Griffin
Devils Rejects 666 The Devil's Warrior Alliance
15504
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Posted - 2016.05.07 01:03:37 -
[360] - Quote
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:Ralph King-Griffin wrote:Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:Dracvlad wrote:Tisiphone Dira wrote:lol people sending mails thanking you for your valiant posting on eve forums? I call bull. People have sent me mails saying well done and thanks for standing up on the forums, I had two this week. It is fine taht you do not believe me. Same thing happens to me. Though not as much. likewise , though the hatemail sorta balances it out. From customers or "customers"? Oh thatd be telling , i will say though it ranges from " **** off and die " to " my friends and i think you should be csm ".
Honestly i just think its hilarious anyone cares that much about my rampant shiptoasting, nevermind enough to actually tell me.
Better the Devil you know.
=]|[=
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