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baltec1
Bat Country Pandemic Legion
17609
|
Posted - 2016.05.03 19:56:59 -
[151] - Quote
Well we have the three people who every time the subject of ganking and ganking nerfs come up always ask for and support just one more nerf.
As per the topic yes, CCP has removed pvp content from highsec via the endless nerfs and buffs they have made. |
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
26142
|
Posted - 2016.05.03 19:57:43 -
[152] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Shayla Etherodyne wrote:Shae Tadaruwa wrote:Geronimo McVain wrote: By the way: In another thread someone was complaining that his hulk got blown up in High. One reply was to find some Null-Sec miners. That's safer because you have all the intel in Null that you don't have in High. So much for the safety/unsafety of High and Null.
You should learn the difference between risk and risk management. If highsec miners used nullsec risk management in highsec, what do you think would happen? Beside the little fact that they can't because they can't kill someone as a proactive defense measure? If highsec miners used nullsec risk management CODE would lose plenty of ships. But CONCORD avenge CODE too. Code ships are profitable to gank. That's before we get into the fact that the majority of suicide gankers are kill on sight due to their security status, Concord aren't going to blap anybody that makes them explode.
Civilized behaviour is knowing that violence is barbaric, but paying other people to do it is business.
Nil mortifi sine lucre.
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Shayla Etherodyne
United Nations Industrial Holdings
45
|
Posted - 2016.05.03 20:02:43 -
[153] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Lucas Kell wrote: But defense is what the skiff is naturally designed to have. A zealot is naturally cheaper, smaller, faster and more agile then has far more capability to improve than a skiff thanks to it's slots, CPU and PG.
The zealot is a heavy assault ship, barges are just industrial ships, its bonkers that every subcap combat ship is profitable to gank if you fit t2 mods to them with no tank but the barges which are industrial ships are not. By all means ships such as the skiff should be able to be tanky but that should come from the fittings you chose, not come directly from the hull. If you choose to fit no tank on your hulk, retriever or skiff then your ship should be profitable to gank just like every other ship out there.
I fail to see why suiciding a T2 assault ship should pay back at all. you are really convinced that killing a ship priced at about 190 millions will a ship worth about 190 millions that will be destroyed in the process should give you a profit?
If it did work that way I would buy skif hulls with an alt, wardec his corp and harvest skiff kills. Or you pretend that every skiff should run around with at least 400 millions in modules so that you get back the price of your assault ship and equipment plus a bit of profit from the drops?
Really, your argument seem to be that T2 mining equipment is to cheap.
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Dracvlad
Taishi Combine Second-Dawn
1463
|
Posted - 2016.05.03 20:10:44 -
[154] - Quote
I love these comparisons with null sec, for example in Null sec I would use a bubble and that Catalyst would not make it to its target.
Ella's Snack bar. The Hisec sandbox is basically no longer a themepark for gankers now that CCP have rebalanced key areas. Well done CCP
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baltec1
Bat Country Pandemic Legion
17609
|
Posted - 2016.05.03 20:15:28 -
[155] - Quote
Shayla Etherodyne wrote:baltec1 wrote:Lucas Kell wrote: But defense is what the skiff is naturally designed to have. A zealot is naturally cheaper, smaller, faster and more agile then has far more capability to improve than a skiff thanks to it's slots, CPU and PG.
The zealot is a heavy assault ship, barges are just industrial ships, its bonkers that every subcap combat ship is profitable to gank if you fit t2 mods to them with no tank but the barges which are industrial ships are not. By all means ships such as the skiff should be able to be tanky but that should come from the fittings you chose, not come directly from the hull. If you choose to fit no tank on your hulk, retriever or skiff then your ship should be profitable to gank just like every other ship out there. I fail to see why suiciding a T2 assault ship should pay back at all. you are really convinced that killing a ship priced at about 190 millions will a ship worth about 190 millions that will be destroyed in the process should give you a profit? If it did work that way I would buy skif hulls with an alt, wardec his corp and harvest skiff kills. Or you pretend that every skiff should run around with at least 400 millions in modules so that you get back the price of your assault ship and equipment plus a bit of profit from the drops? Really, your argument seem to be that T2 mining equipment is to cheap.
You kill the untanked zealot with a catalyst and harvest the dropped t2 mods. You don't always win vs the loot fairy but you win enough in the long run to turn a profit. Barges and exhumers used to be profitable to kill due to people fitting no tank and slapping on expanders. |
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine Second-Dawn
1467
|
Posted - 2016.05.03 20:17:36 -
[156] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Shayla Etherodyne wrote:baltec1 wrote:Lucas Kell wrote: But defense is what the skiff is naturally designed to have. A zealot is naturally cheaper, smaller, faster and more agile then has far more capability to improve than a skiff thanks to it's slots, CPU and PG.
The zealot is a heavy assault ship, barges are just industrial ships, its bonkers that every subcap combat ship is profitable to gank if you fit t2 mods to them with no tank but the barges which are industrial ships are not. By all means ships such as the skiff should be able to be tanky but that should come from the fittings you chose, not come directly from the hull. If you choose to fit no tank on your hulk, retriever or skiff then your ship should be profitable to gank just like every other ship out there. I fail to see why suiciding a T2 assault ship should pay back at all. you are really convinced that killing a ship priced at about 190 millions will a ship worth about 190 millions that will be destroyed in the process should give you a profit? If it did work that way I would buy skif hulls with an alt, wardec his corp and harvest skiff kills. Or you pretend that every skiff should run around with at least 400 millions in modules so that you get back the price of your assault ship and equipment plus a bit of profit from the drops? Really, your argument seem to be that T2 mining equipment is to cheap. You kill the untanked zealot with a catalyst and harvest the dropped t2 mods. You don't always win vs the loot fairy but you win enough in the long run to turn a profit. Barges and exhumers used to be profitable to kill due to people fitting no tank and slapping on expanders.
So because people are fitting a tank its unfair...
Ella's Snack bar. The Hisec sandbox is basically no longer a themepark for gankers now that CCP have rebalanced key areas. Well done CCP
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Shae Tadaruwa
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
323
|
Posted - 2016.05.03 20:19:37 -
[157] - Quote
Dracvlad wrote:I love these comparisons with null sec, for example in Null sec I would use a bubble and that Catalyst would not make it to its target. I love the idea that you think people use catalysts much in null.
Your bubble is going to be pretty ineffective against the interceptor that comes as scout/tackle. |
baltec1
Bat Country Pandemic Legion
17609
|
Posted - 2016.05.03 20:19:59 -
[158] - Quote
Dracvlad wrote:baltec1 wrote:Shayla Etherodyne wrote:baltec1 wrote:Lucas Kell wrote: But defense is what the skiff is naturally designed to have. A zealot is naturally cheaper, smaller, faster and more agile then has far more capability to improve than a skiff thanks to it's slots, CPU and PG.
The zealot is a heavy assault ship, barges are just industrial ships, its bonkers that every subcap combat ship is profitable to gank if you fit t2 mods to them with no tank but the barges which are industrial ships are not. By all means ships such as the skiff should be able to be tanky but that should come from the fittings you chose, not come directly from the hull. If you choose to fit no tank on your hulk, retriever or skiff then your ship should be profitable to gank just like every other ship out there. I fail to see why suiciding a T2 assault ship should pay back at all. you are really convinced that killing a ship priced at about 190 millions will a ship worth about 190 millions that will be destroyed in the process should give you a profit? If it did work that way I would buy skif hulls with an alt, wardec his corp and harvest skiff kills. Or you pretend that every skiff should run around with at least 400 millions in modules so that you get back the price of your assault ship and equipment plus a bit of profit from the drops? Really, your argument seem to be that T2 mining equipment is to cheap. You kill the untanked zealot with a catalyst and harvest the dropped t2 mods. You don't always win vs the loot fairy but you win enough in the long run to turn a profit. Barges and exhumers used to be profitable to kill due to people fitting no tank and slapping on expanders. So because people are fitting a tank its unfair...
The unfair part is barges and exhumers were buffed in such a way that makes them the only subcap you cant gank for profit in this way. |
Kiandoshia
Gambrini
2434
|
Posted - 2016.05.03 20:20:11 -
[159] - Quote
Shayla Etherodyne wrote:Note that the ability to bump hasn't been removed, simply there is a 3 minute timer for it.
There actually isn't. You can still keep bumping them for the rest of time (or at least until downtime). All you need for this are alts. Freighter pilots have had to use web and cyno alts since the beginning of time. I wouldn't call it a nerf, just a balancing?
Besides, anything that makes people create more alts is yay, I suppose. |
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
7624
|
Posted - 2016.05.03 20:22:45 -
[160] - Quote
Dracvlad wrote:I love these comparisons with null sec, for example in Null sec I would use a bubble and that Catalyst would not make it to its target.
If it even makes it to the bubble because intel channels.
Heck, if it even makes it past the lowsec gate camps or past the high-sec to nullsec fatal funnels. Oh it would need say a cloak and a stab? Less DPS then - more of a travel boat than a gank boat (more of a coffin than anything with that lack of tank).
But no no no - let the easy kill harvesters project "want of easy" on us. It's obviously a form of therapy for them.
Bring back DEEEEP Space!
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Dracvlad
Taishi Combine Second-Dawn
1467
|
Posted - 2016.05.03 20:24:14 -
[161] - Quote
Shae Tadaruwa wrote:Dracvlad wrote:I love these comparisons with null sec, for example in Null sec I would use a bubble and that Catalyst would not make it to its target. I love the idea that you think people use catalysts much in null. Your bubble is going to be pretty ineffective against the interceptor that comes as scout/tackle.
Well ypu are the one who is suggesting that hisec people follow null sec risk management, I am just pointing out with a simple example why your suggestion is rubbish. An interceptor is no threat in hisec...
Ella's Snack bar. The Hisec sandbox is basically no longer a themepark for gankers now that CCP have rebalanced key areas. Well done CCP
|
Giaus Felix
Hedion University Amarr Empire
147
|
Posted - 2016.05.03 20:26:36 -
[162] - Quote
Dracvlad wrote:baltec1 wrote:Shayla Etherodyne wrote:baltec1 wrote:Lucas Kell wrote: But defense is what the skiff is naturally designed to have. A zealot is naturally cheaper, smaller, faster and more agile then has far more capability to improve than a skiff thanks to it's slots, CPU and PG.
The zealot is a heavy assault ship, barges are just industrial ships, its bonkers that every subcap combat ship is profitable to gank if you fit t2 mods to them with no tank but the barges which are industrial ships are not. By all means ships such as the skiff should be able to be tanky but that should come from the fittings you chose, not come directly from the hull. If you choose to fit no tank on your hulk, retriever or skiff then your ship should be profitable to gank just like every other ship out there. I fail to see why suiciding a T2 assault ship should pay back at all. you are really convinced that killing a ship priced at about 190 millions will a ship worth about 190 millions that will be destroyed in the process should give you a profit? If it did work that way I would buy skif hulls with an alt, wardec his corp and harvest skiff kills. Or you pretend that every skiff should run around with at least 400 millions in modules so that you get back the price of your assault ship and equipment plus a bit of profit from the drops? Really, your argument seem to be that T2 mining equipment is to cheap. You kill the untanked zealot with a catalyst and harvest the dropped t2 mods. You don't always win vs the loot fairy but you win enough in the long run to turn a profit. Barges and exhumers used to be profitable to kill due to people fitting no tank and slapping on expanders. So because people are fitting a tank its unfair... I think the point he is trying to make is that since they were rebalanced barges are no longer as profitable to gank regardless of whether a tank is fitted or not, primarily due to the increase in EHP they received as part of the balance pass on them.
Whereas before the balance pass it was possible to solo most of them, loot the modules and make a profit, now it takes multiple people and any resulting loot is split between them, hence no longer profitable.
I am Ralph's junk DNA.
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Shae Tadaruwa
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
323
|
Posted - 2016.05.03 20:28:04 -
[163] - Quote
Shayla Etherodyne wrote:Shae Tadaruwa wrote:Geronimo McVain wrote: By the way: In another thread someone was complaining that his hulk got blown up in High. One reply was to find some Null-Sec miners. That's safer because you have all the intel in Null that you don't have in High. So much for the safety/unsafety of High and Null.
You should learn the difference between risk and risk management. If highsec miners used nullsec risk management in highsec, what do you think would happen? Beside the little fact that they can't because they can't kill someone as a proactive defense measure? If highsec miners used nullsec risk management CODE would lose plenty of ships. But CONCORD avenge CODE too. If you think risk management for miners in null is just simply killing other ships, then you lack understanding of risk management in null. |
Amyclas Amatin
SUNDERING Goonswarm Federation
732
|
Posted - 2016.05.03 20:29:04 -
[164] - Quote
Bexol Regyri wrote:I have only been playing eve for about 5 months and started out a high sec miner. One of the things that attracted me to eve was that it was pretty much what I expected of space from all the scifi books I read full of good guys and bad guys and that space is not a safe place. One of the things I found out right away was about 1/2 the players in space were not engaged in the game. There would be an ice belt with 30 people in it, but no one was really there. Their ships just mining away while they did stuff in real life. I almost fell into the same trap but then I met the pirates, as I later found out where called gankers in this game, mercs and griefers. At first I was like these guys are jerks to put it nicely. The more I watched them blow up people the more I realized they are forcing people to stay engaged in the game. At the same time I watched CCP make changes to hamper the high sec content creators and cater people to people that are not actively engaged while undocked. How does that help a healthy community?
so my question is why does it seem like CCP wants to stop or make close to impossible all non PVE highsec content when players have tons of in game tools avoid dying like d-scan, local chat, kills in system on map, etc...?
Because many pvpers eat in highsec...
For more information on the New Order of High-Sec, please visit: http://www.minerbumping.com/
Remember that whenever you have a bad day in EVE, the correct reponse is "Thank you CCP, may I please have another?"
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Shae Tadaruwa
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
323
|
Posted - 2016.05.03 20:31:57 -
[165] - Quote
Dracvlad wrote:Shae Tadaruwa wrote:Dracvlad wrote:I love these comparisons with null sec, for example in Null sec I would use a bubble and that Catalyst would not make it to its target. I love the idea that you think people use catalysts much in null. Your bubble is going to be pretty ineffective against the interceptor that comes as scout/tackle. Well you are the one who is suggesting that hisec people follow null sec risk management, I am just pointing out with a simple example why your suggestion is rubbish. An interceptor is no threat in hisec... No I didn't suggest that at all. Go back and re read what was written.
Maybe slower this time so it sinks in. |
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine Second-Dawn
1467
|
Posted - 2016.05.03 20:32:10 -
[166] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Dracvlad wrote:So because people are fitting a tank its unfair... The unfair part is barges and exhumers were buffed in such a way that makes them the only subcap you cant gank for profit in this way.
So you are upset is because barges are mainly structure and that got an adjustment because of changes in certain mechanics, but it is entirely logical that a ship that stores lots of loose ore would have imposing bulk heads and an impact from storing all that ore in theory against weapons fire against a more flexible light hull which is designed for fast combat. It still makes no sense.
You are in PL now, Grath and co are having great fun with the new capitals, wouldn't you be better off doing that sort of thing rather than whining about logical mechanics and suggesting that mining ships should not have a tank so your gankers can blow them up to make ISK
Ella's Snack bar. The Hisec sandbox is basically no longer a themepark for gankers now that CCP have rebalanced key areas. Well done CCP
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Dracvlad
Taishi Combine Second-Dawn
1467
|
Posted - 2016.05.03 20:33:59 -
[167] - Quote
Shae Tadaruwa wrote:Dracvlad wrote:Shae Tadaruwa wrote:Dracvlad wrote:I love these comparisons with null sec, for example in Null sec I would use a bubble and that Catalyst would not make it to its target. I love the idea that you think people use catalysts much in null. Your bubble is going to be pretty ineffective against the interceptor that comes as scout/tackle. Well you are the one who is suggesting that hisec people follow null sec risk management, I am just pointing out with a simple example why your suggestion is rubbish. An interceptor is no threat in hisec... No I didn't suggest that at all. Go back and re read what was written. Maybe slower this time so it sinks in. Alternatively, please quote where at all I suggested that. You can't because it never happened.
There you go:
Shae Tadaruwa wrote:You should learn the difference between risk and risk management.
If highsec miners used nullsec risk management in highsec, what do you think would happen?
Ella's Snack bar. The Hisec sandbox is basically no longer a themepark for gankers now that CCP have rebalanced key areas. Well done CCP
|
Shae Tadaruwa
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
323
|
Posted - 2016.05.03 20:41:39 -
[168] - Quote
Dracvlad wrote:Shae Tadaruwa wrote:Dracvlad wrote:
Well you are the one who is suggesting that hisec people follow null sec risk management, I am just pointing out with a simple example why your suggestion is rubbish. An interceptor is no threat in hisec...
No I didn't suggest that at all. Go back and re read what was written. Maybe slower this time so it sinks in. Alternatively, please quote where at all I suggested that. You can't because it never happened. There you go: Shae Tadaruwa wrote:You should learn the difference between risk and risk management.
If highsec miners used nullsec risk management in highsec, what do you think would happen? Like I said. Maybe read it slower so what was written actually sinks in. Exactly where did I suggest using nullsec risk management in highsec?
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baltec1
Bat Country Pandemic Legion
17609
|
Posted - 2016.05.03 20:45:20 -
[169] - Quote
Dracvlad wrote:baltec1 wrote:Dracvlad wrote:So because people are fitting a tank its unfair... The unfair part is barges and exhumers were buffed in such a way that makes them the only subcap you cant gank for profit in this way. So your upset is because barges are mainly structure and that got an adjustment because of changes in certain mechanics, but it is entirely logical that a ship that stores lots of loose ore would have imposing bulk heads and an impact from storing all that ore in theory against weapons fire against a more flexible light hull which is designed for fast combat. It still makes no sense. You are in PL now, Grath and co are having great fun with the new capitals, wouldn't you be better off doing that sort of thing rather than whining about logical mechanics and suggesting that mining ships should not have a tank so your gankers can blow them up to make ISK
The changes to barge HP happened years ago, the DCU change is a different thing that caused other problems.
The effect of the barge HP changes resulted in barges and exhumers gaining an unfair advantage that no other subcap enjoys and is inherently unbalanced. It ended barge piracy as a viable activity. The barge changes also killed the far bigger content provider that was jetcan mining. Jetcan theft and the baiting that happened around the activity provided a huge amount of content but that was all wiped out simply because of the introduction of the ore bays and the way they work.
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NEONOVUS
Diabolically Sexy Eureka-Secret Science R Us
995
|
Posted - 2016.05.03 20:55:18 -
[170] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Dracvlad wrote:baltec1 wrote:Dracvlad wrote:So because people are fitting a tank its unfair... The unfair part is barges and exhumers were buffed in such a way that makes them the only subcap you cant gank for profit in this way. So your upset is because barges are mainly structure and that got an adjustment because of changes in certain mechanics, but it is entirely logical that a ship that stores lots of loose ore would have imposing bulk heads and an impact from storing all that ore in theory against weapons fire against a more flexible light hull which is designed for fast combat. It still makes no sense. You are in PL now, Grath and co are having great fun with the new capitals, wouldn't you be better off doing that sort of thing rather than whining about logical mechanics and suggesting that mining ships should not have a tank so your gankers can blow them up to make ISK The changes to barge HP happened years ago, the DCU change is a different thing that caused other problems. The effect of the barge HP changes resulted in barges and exhumers gaining an unfair advantage that no other subcap enjoys and is inherently unbalanced. It ended barge piracy as a viable activity. The barge changes also killed the far bigger content provider that was jetcan mining. Jetcan theft and the baiting that happened around the activity provided a huge amount of content but that was all wiped out simply because of the introduction of the ore bays and the way they work. It also made it so there was a reason to other barges than hulk/covetor. Even more so after the minimining ships became logi.
The real issue was that jetcan mining was the only expectable way to provoke a fight, which inherantly meant basically a combat ship can flipping or the miner just logging. So it didn't really do much, at least not in the sense of anything other than idiots. Same thing for Code bumping, it fell apart once it was pointed that they had to leave people in peace after some time.
The bigger issue is that you have an interest in content that you provoke, not so much a mutual interest. Where functionally you are pushing it on other people in an effort to get them to play your game, and they would rather not.
For a triteness, The wolf and the sheep held a vote, and there were plenty of rams at the table. |
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Bing Bangboom
DAMAG Safety Commission
460
|
Posted - 2016.05.03 21:03:23 -
[171] - Quote
You shouldn't worry about highsec content creators. We will, as after every nerf, be fine. Its why "one more nerf" is and has always been a punchline.
In many ways all this is a compliment. We have become so effective at doing Eve, you know, blowing up spaceships and stuff, that CCP finally had to throw in the towel and give the carebears magic "get out of jail" buttons that THEY DON"T EVEN HAVE TO PUSH. The increases in EHP and now the auto-warp timer are a plain admission that we are better than their mechanics and always find a way to win.
I mean, when you put in a feature that allows an autopiloting freighter pilot to escape bumps when he's out having a cigarette or doing the laundry you have just given up on giving them tools to protect themselves and are shoving them out of the way and saying, "OK, you idiot... let me save your stupid ass". Its a shame when you think about it but hey, we told them not to go down that path.
With The Conference Elite back into CODE., numbers back up to full strength and donations continuing to pour in, highsec's explosive future is still in front of us. People that think they are so safe in highsec that they can half-ass their way around will continue to die horribly and will continue to chant "One more nerf" like some space aged BLMers.
It is truly impressive what a dedicated, well-led, group of homicidal zealots can accomplish. Just seeing the way we've driven the changes in the game would be quite edifying if it wasn't that the changes were so poorly thought out and implemented. Still, as you all know, we always win.
Short of turning off all offensive modules in highsec... we can't be stopped.
Highsec is worth fighting for.
By choosing to mine in New Order systems, highsec miners have agreed to follow the New Halaima Code of Conduct.-á www.minerbumping.com
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Kaska Iskalar
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
58
|
Posted - 2016.05.03 21:06:18 -
[172] - Quote
Agreed. They should make high sec what it was in beta. Down with Space-Trammel! |
baltec1
Bat Country Pandemic Legion
17609
|
Posted - 2016.05.03 21:08:05 -
[173] - Quote
NEONOVUS wrote: It also made it so there was a reason to other barges than hulk/covetor. Even more so after the minimining ships became logi.
The first buff to barges was a total disaster and it simply made the retriever king of the barges. The second revamp while better than the first still falls well short of what was needed with the barges still not the well balanced with eachother. They are also shoehorned into just one or two viable fits, you no longer have to make sacrifices on them for storing ore for example. If you want max cargo space for your rocks you should have to fit for max cargo not get it right out of the box.
NEONOVUS wrote: The real issue was that jetcan mining was the only expectable way to provoke a fight, which inherantly meant basically a combat ship can flipping or the miner just logging. So it didn't really do much, at least not in the sense of anything other than idiots. Same thing for Code bumping, it fell apart once it was pointed that they had to leave people in peace after some time.
The bigger issue is that you have an interest in content that you provoke, not so much a mutual interest. Where functionally you are pushing it on other people in an effort to get them to play your game, and they would rather not.
For a triteness, The wolf and the sheep held a vote, and there were plenty of rams at the table.
The shenanigans that happened around jetcans in belts was hugely enjoyable and productive in terms of pvp. I used to have great fun baiting fights out of pilots using my battle iteron V and there was countless others all happily blowing eachother up all overhighsec. All of that activity is gone which has lead to much more boring highsec which is not good for the game. |
Bing Bangboom
DAMAG Safety Commission
461
|
Posted - 2016.05.03 21:17:30 -
[174] - Quote
baltec1 wrote: The shenanigans that happened around jetcans in belts was hugely enjoyable and productive in terms of pvp. I used to have great fun baiting fights out of pilots using my battle iteron V and there was countless others all happily blowing eachother up all overhighsec. All of that activity is gone which has lead to much more boring highsec which is not good for the game.
In many ways, the massive increase in ganking was driven by the end of can flipping. Along with the effective end of ninja salvaging and eventually awoxing all the destructive impulses of the highsec "content creaters" (staying on topic) was funnelled into one channel, ie, the gank. Where before the miner could just write off that can of ore and go about filling the next now destruction comes without him making that one fatal error.
Not as fun by a long shot. Knowing exactly which buttons to push to make the miner flip out and either take back the ore or go get his version of a pvp ship and shoot your apparently harmless little frigate was a talent unmatched in todays game. It was REAL pvp, both shipwise and psychological.
Nerfs created the ganking explosion. The energy had to go somewhere. It won't disappear.
Highsec is worth fighting for.
By choosing to mine in New Order systems, highsec miners have agreed to follow the New Halaima Code of Conduct.-á www.minerbumping.com
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Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
7624
|
Posted - 2016.05.03 21:26:07 -
[175] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Dracvlad wrote:baltec1 wrote:Dracvlad wrote:So because people are fitting a tank its unfair... The unfair part is barges and exhumers were buffed in such a way that makes them the only subcap you cant gank for profit in this way. So your upset is because barges are mainly structure and that got an adjustment because of changes in certain mechanics, but it is entirely logical that a ship that stores lots of loose ore would have imposing bulk heads and an impact from storing all that ore in theory against weapons fire against a more flexible light hull which is designed for fast combat. It still makes no sense. You are in PL now, Grath and co are having great fun with the new capitals, wouldn't you be better off doing that sort of thing rather than whining about logical mechanics and suggesting that mining ships should not have a tank so your gankers can blow them up to make ISK The changes to barge HP happened years ago, the DCU change is a different thing that caused other problems. The effect of the barge HP changes resulted in barges and exhumers gaining an unfair advantage that no other subcap enjoys and is inherently unbalanced. It ended barge piracy as a viable activity. The barge changes also killed the far bigger content provider that was jetcan mining. Jetcan theft and the baiting that happened around the activity provided a huge amount of content but that was all wiped out simply because of the introduction of the ore bays and the way they work.
WTF did I just read?
I thought you guys were more careful about what you called unfair. But this is an Orwellian display of blind(to your own)sidedness.
Even the gankers are calling stuff "unfair" - even using that word. What's this world coming to?
Bring back DEEEEP Space!
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Lucas Kell
Internet Terrorists
7608
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Posted - 2016.05.03 22:15:14 -
[176] - Quote
Giaus Felix wrote:I think the point he is trying to make is that since they were rebalanced, barges are no longer as profitable to gank regardless of whether a tank is fitted or not, primarily due to the increase in EHP they received as part of the balance pass on them. Except the part he's still missing is that he's comparing a ship specifically designed to tank to a very versatile ship with a focus on damage. Of course the ship designed to tank will naturally have a higher tank. As usual when it comes to baltec though, when these things are pointed out he simply ignores them and pushes on with his nonsense.
The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.
Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
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NEONOVUS
Diabolically Sexy Eureka-Secret Science R Us
996
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Posted - 2016.05.04 00:13:31 -
[177] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:NEONOVUS wrote: It also made it so there was a reason to other barges than hulk/covetor. Even more so after the minimining ships became logi.
The first buff to barges was a total disaster and it simply made the retriever king of the barges. The second revamp while better than the first still falls well short of what was needed with the barges still not the well balanced with eachother. They are also shoehorned into just one or two viable fits, you no longer have to make sacrifices on them for storing ore for example. If you want max cargo space for your rocks you should have to fit for max cargo not get it right out of the box. NEONOVUS wrote: The real issue was that jetcan mining was the only expectable way to provoke a fight, which inherantly meant basically a combat ship can flipping or the miner just logging. So it didn't really do much, at least not in the sense of anything other than idiots. Same thing for Code bumping, it fell apart once it was pointed that they had to leave people in peace after some time.
The bigger issue is that you have an interest in content that you provoke, not so much a mutual interest. Where functionally you are pushing it on other people in an effort to get them to play your game, and they would rather not.
For a triteness, The wolf and the sheep held a vote, and there were plenty of rams at the table.
The shenanigans that happened around jetcans in belts was hugely enjoyable and productive in terms of pvp. I used to have great fun baiting fights out of pilots using my battle iteron V and there was countless others all happily blowing eachother up all overhighsec. All of that activity is gone which has lead to much more boring highsec which is not good for the game. Agreed, first buff mostly just turned the hulk into the retriever, though this doesn't seem unlikely what so ever as miners would always go for the largest bay. It means the least interaction on a boring job. Even now many still use it, rather than the procurer for gank areas. THis however speaks more on what a person is interested in than on the changer proper.
As for battle indies, you sir, have poor taste. Battle badger all the way. And just for you having such an offensive taste, I would rather harm myself and remove the content than let you sully the name of battle industrials.
But really, now you can still grab their rat wrecks or duel them. Its just now you have much less chance of 'leet pvp and much more trying to cajole somebody to stick their hand in a running garbage disposal for some reason. |
Yang Aurilen
The Mjolnir Bloc The Bloc
1144
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Posted - 2016.05.04 00:50:46 -
[178] - Quote
Dracvlad wrote:I love these comparisons with null sec, for example in Null sec I would use a bubble and that Catalyst would not make it to its target.
So will the freighter. Imagine having multiple bubbles on the gate and the freighter has to slowburn to it.
Post with your NPC alt main and not your main main alt!
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Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
7626
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Posted - 2016.05.04 01:32:34 -
[179] - Quote
Yang Aurilen wrote:Dracvlad wrote:I love these comparisons with null sec, for example in Null sec I would use a bubble and that Catalyst would not make it to its target. So will the freighter. Imagine having multiple bubbles on the gate and the freighter has to slowburn to it.
Why would a freighter end up like that though?
There was once a time when we had to escort freighters, back in the days of olde when I had a mullet (but no Camaro)
Bring back DEEEEP Space!
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Dracvlad
Taishi Combine Second-Dawn
1472
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Posted - 2016.05.04 05:35:35 -
[180] - Quote
Yang Aurilen wrote:Dracvlad wrote:I love these comparisons with null sec, for example in Null sec I would use a bubble and that Catalyst would not make it to its target. So will the freighter. Imagine having multiple bubbles on the gate and the freighter has to slowburn to it.
I was responding to a certain person suggesting that miners in hisec use null sec risk management, don't know why you are referring to a freighter in terms of my replies to that. In fact your post just backed me up.
Ella's Snack bar. The Hisec sandbox is basically no longer a themepark for gankers now that CCP have rebalanced key areas. Well done CCP
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