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Lygos Amarr Rhetra Succession	Posted - 2007.02.23 06:26:00 - [391] As a sometime industrialist, there are things which are needed to make competition work. The most important is PRESSURE. 1)If you operate equipment, it requires upkeep, maintenance, and licensing fees. If you aren't able and willing to meet this, you fall behind or go out of business. T2 BPO corps could easily bill T2 AND T1 producers a monthly fee. Fail to meet it, and kiss your license goodbye. BPOs that gather dust should not be prevalent. Thus, people that have the ability to create something do so aggressively, or they do not do so at all. Ideally, fees should be flexible, and based on the number of licensed BPO in existence. 2)Warehouse space. You gotta have it, but nobody can afford to keep endless amounts of it. There needs to be a marketting penalty for just sitting on merchandise. Pressure to move merchandise should be omnipresent for any retailer. Occasionally liquidating merchandise at cut-rates is usually a cost-saving measure. Combining risk with overhead concerns will thin out all areas of the market, and allow competition to identify itself prominently. Economics in EVE is supposed to be about WAR, not a pleasant little sidequest labelled with a theme song in the background intoning "Gotta-catch-em-all." If you really have no idea how to put competition in your game, drag the company bean counters away from their spreadsheets for an hour or so. --- T2 Risk \| Corp Divisions
Lygos Amarr Rhetra Succession	Posted - 2007.02.23 06:26:00 - [392] As a sometime industrialist, there are things which are needed to make competition work. The most important is PRESSURE. 1)If you operate equipment, it requires upkeep, maintenance, and licensing fees. If you aren't able and willing to meet this, you fall behind or go out of business. T2 BPO corps could easily bill T2 AND T1 producers a monthly fee. Fail to meet it, and kiss your license goodbye. BPOs that gather dust should not be prevalent. Thus, people that have the ability to create something do so aggressively, or they do not do so at all. Ideally, fees should be flexible, and based on the number of licensed BPO in existence. 2)Warehouse space. You gotta have it, but nobody can afford to keep endless amounts of it. There needs to be a marketting penalty for just sitting on merchandise. Pressure to move merchandise should be omnipresent for any retailer. Occasionally liquidating merchandise at cut-rates is usually a cost-saving measure. Combining risk with overhead concerns will thin out all areas of the market, and allow competition to identify itself prominently. Economics in EVE is supposed to be about WAR, not a pleasant little sidequest labelled with a theme song in the background intoning "Gotta-catch-em-all." If you really have no idea how to put competition in your game, drag the company bean counters away from their spreadsheets for an hour or so. --- T2 Risk \| Corp Divisions
Aiyleena Iluvatar	Posted - 2007.02.23 06:46:00 - [393] I hope they implement something to the low lvl r&d agents... otherwise every1 will run to the high lvls to get the RPs today it makes at least a little sence to have different types of agents to get more chances for the lotterie but what happens when u only get RPs for datathingies
Aiyleena Iluvatar	Posted - 2007.02.23 06:46:00 - [394] I hope they implement something to the low lvl r&d agents... otherwise every1 will run to the high lvls to get the RPs today it makes at least a little sence to have different types of agents to get more chances for the lotterie but what happens when u only get RPs for datathingies
Xelios Minmatar Rampage Eternal Ka-Tet	Posted - 2007.02.23 07:05:00 - [395] Whatever they do with the BPO's the first step to this is to fix invention. The chance based system needs to go, every attempt should generate a bpc of varying quality. Once this change is in the rest needs to be rebalanced anyway.
Xelios Minmatar Rampage Eternal Ka-Tet	Posted - 2007.02.23 07:05:00 - [396] Whatever they do with the BPO's the first step to this is to fix invention. The chance based system needs to go, every attempt should generate a bpc of varying quality. Once this change is in the rest needs to be rebalanced anyway.
Petrothian Tong Gallente	Posted - 2007.02.23 07:14:00 - [397] Edited by: Petrothian Tong on 23/02/2007 07:11:19 It wouldnt be so bad if you could "INVENT" T2 BPOs... make it takes Tons of RP (like a year's worth of RP for a T2 Crusier BPO..) that way T2 BPOs wont be flooded but yet, it allows people for a chance to get them still, if they are persistent enough. but the current Chance based is bad... no way to compete against someone with an researched original: now, scenario, assumping same ME level. BPO owner: constant production, no interruption. BPC inventor: wait 2 weeks to collect enough RP to attempt to invent a BPC, tries to invent BPC: succeeed(not likely with the current randomness and low success rate) produce limited amount, If fail.. wait 2 more weeks to try again... now, if the RP gained from a lvl 4 agent in 1 day can buy several cores, then sure, invention would work nicely.. but at the moment is not worth it and NO way it will be able to compete against T2 BPO owners... THATS the problem. I win buttons are bad... T2 BPO owners got the I win Market PVP forever button... ""PvP" isn't only direct person to person combat, it can be very indirect. Selling an item on the market which somebody buys from you is resulting in another guy not getting a sale." Oveur
Petrothian Tong Gallente	Posted - 2007.02.23 07:14:00 - [398] Edited by: Petrothian Tong on 23/02/2007 07:11:19 It wouldnt be so bad if you could "INVENT" T2 BPOs... make it takes Tons of RP (like a year's worth of RP for a T2 Crusier BPO..) that way T2 BPOs wont be flooded but yet, it allows people for a chance to get them still, if they are persistent enough. but the current Chance based is bad... no way to compete against someone with an researched original: now, scenario, assumping same ME level. BPO owner: constant production, no interruption. BPC inventor: wait 2 weeks to collect enough RP to attempt to invent a BPC, tries to invent BPC: succeeed(not likely with the current randomness and low success rate) produce limited amount, If fail.. wait 2 more weeks to try again... now, if the RP gained from a lvl 4 agent in 1 day can buy several cores, then sure, invention would work nicely.. but at the moment is not worth it and NO way it will be able to compete against T2 BPO owners... THATS the problem. I win buttons are bad... T2 BPO owners got the I win Market PVP forever button... ""PvP" isn't only direct person to person combat, it can be very indirect. Selling an item on the market which somebody buys from you is resulting in another guy not getting a sale." Oveur
Daenrys	Posted - 2007.02.23 07:41:00 - [399] After Reading all ... There are many good ideas in all that have been said. Invention for me means : something Bright, something new, something strange, something unexpected, something rare, something odd ... something SMART ... For Eve Invention seems to mean something that already exist .... And for the moment it means only something ... bad Bad ME, Bad Cost, Bad Production I would prefer that invention give you a BPc with low runs but with UNEXPECTED results. (bonus or malus ...) The market will be so divided in two -Producer with BPO in large Corporation -Scientist with Invention in small units The name Invention deserve something better An invention should be priceless but highly complicated to obtain. As explained by others there will never be competition between BPO and Invention. So the WORST thing to do is to removeLottery and keep older BPO in game But for fun, it will be good to have a nice invention system. Something that create odd object, it is true that inventors have a lot to do to obtain something ... so gives player an opportunity to really be inventor by giving them smart object (even with very low runs BPc)
Daenrys	Posted - 2007.02.23 07:41:00 - [400] After Reading all ... There are many good ideas in all that have been said. Invention for me means : something Bright, something new, something strange, something unexpected, something rare, something odd ... something SMART ... For Eve Invention seems to mean something that already exist .... And for the moment it means only something ... bad Bad ME, Bad Cost, Bad Production I would prefer that invention give you a BPc with low runs but with UNEXPECTED results. (bonus or malus ...) The market will be so divided in two -Producer with BPO in large Corporation -Scientist with Invention in small units The name Invention deserve something better An invention should be priceless but highly complicated to obtain. As explained by others there will never be competition between BPO and Invention. So the WORST thing to do is to removeLottery and keep older BPO in game But for fun, it will be good to have a nice invention system. Something that create odd object, it is true that inventors have a lot to do to obtain something ... so gives player an opportunity to really be inventor by giving them smart object (even with very low runs BPc)

Lunhara Darkblade	Posted - 2007.02.23 09:15:00 - [401] I notice a lot of people are talking about the profit that can be gained from tech 2 BPO's. It should also not be forgotten that owning a tech 2 BPO gives a corp or alliance a large tactical advantage too. They will not need to make billions of isk to keep a war machine oing because they have access to cheap tech 2 equipment of an unlimited supply. Stopping people getting tech 2 BPO's means that those who already have them will be able to hold on to this advantage without anyone new being able to challenge it. This is why you see many people buying BPO's for billions. It will take a year or more to recoup the cost not major profit gain there for a while. It is the tactical advantage that many are paying for.
Lunhara Darkblade	Posted - 2007.02.23 09:15:00 - [402] I notice a lot of people are talking about the profit that can be gained from tech 2 BPO's. It should also not be forgotten that owning a tech 2 BPO gives a corp or alliance a large tactical advantage too. They will not need to make billions of isk to keep a war machine oing because they have access to cheap tech 2 equipment of an unlimited supply. Stopping people getting tech 2 BPO's means that those who already have them will be able to hold on to this advantage without anyone new being able to challenge it. This is why you see many people buying BPO's for billions. It will take a year or more to recoup the cost not major profit gain there for a while. It is the tactical advantage that many are paying for.
Ruffio Sepico Minmatar Hidden Agenda Deep Space Engineering	Posted - 2007.02.23 09:29:00 - [403] Edited by: Ruffio Sepico on 23/02/2007 10:13:23 The t2 lottery isn't really broken, but its flawed because you get RP's without have to work for it. Change it so you only continue gain RP's by doing the agent missions. Would be a nightmare for those who have multiple characters with R&D agent all over the place, but it would put more effort into it. Just as it require more effort with invention. It would still end up be a chance of luck, but at least those involved worked for it and it stop be a "passive" system where you get thrown RP's at daily for no effort. If this happend, a new system to make datacores available would be needed. Maybe why not make datacores a item players can make? Just as RAM Tech's did way back. Home: http://www.hidden-agenda.co.uk
Ruffio Sepico Minmatar Hidden Agenda Deep Space Engineering	Posted - 2007.02.23 09:29:00 - [404] Edited by: Ruffio Sepico on 23/02/2007 10:13:23 The t2 lottery isn't really broken, but its flawed because you get RP's without have to work for it. Change it so you only continue gain RP's by doing the agent missions. Would be a nightmare for those who have multiple characters with R&D agent all over the place, but it would put more effort into it. Just as it require more effort with invention. It would still end up be a chance of luck, but at least those involved worked for it and it stop be a "passive" system where you get thrown RP's at daily for no effort. If this happend, a new system to make datacores available would be needed. Maybe why not make datacores a item players can make? Just as RAM Tech's did way back. Home: http://www.hidden-agenda.co.uk
Ruffio Sepico Minmatar Hidden Agenda Deep Space Engineering	Posted - 2007.02.23 09:38:00 - [405] Originally by: Lunhara Darkblade I notice a lot of people are talking about the profit that can be gained from tech 2 BPO's. Not every t2 print is a "money printing machine", far from it. Some hardly break even, others not worth build from at all. Build something just because you got the print doesnt pan out well when you can do other things that bring in more profit. Those with a low/mid level t2 bpo wouldn't fancy CCP to dish out another xx amount of the same bpo when they already hardly can keep head above water. Imho CCP need to look into the demand of t2 modules/ships and seed new bpo's acordingly. Although a working invention system would help fix this inbalance as players would always go for the high profit modules/ships. Fix invention dont break everything else. Home: http://www.hidden-agenda.co.uk
Ruffio Sepico Minmatar Hidden Agenda Deep Space Engineering	Posted - 2007.02.23 09:38:00 - [406] Originally by: Lunhara Darkblade I notice a lot of people are talking about the profit that can be gained from tech 2 BPO's. Not every t2 print is a "money printing machine", far from it. Some hardly break even, others not worth build from at all. Build something just because you got the print doesnt pan out well when you can do other things that bring in more profit. Those with a low/mid level t2 bpo wouldn't fancy CCP to dish out another xx amount of the same bpo when they already hardly can keep head above water. Imho CCP need to look into the demand of t2 modules/ships and seed new bpo's acordingly. Although a working invention system would help fix this inbalance as players would always go for the high profit modules/ships. Fix invention dont break everything else. Home: http://www.hidden-agenda.co.uk
Bermag Point-Zero Ratel Alliance	Posted - 2007.02.23 10:03:00 - [407] Originally by: Vansard Trying to fix the T2 BPO issue without really developing the scientist career path doesn't make much sense to me. The true problem what a scientist is in eve? Because after being a lottery ticked, it becomes a datacore gatherer with some datacore/euro(usd) ratio. Well currently a scientist is just a lottery player When it comes to the inventor (which is the real profession) it is much more of a real profession IMO. It require a lot of investment in skills to be succesful (lvl 4 in the science skills used for a specific invention work + encryption skill). But still alts will be used to gather RP for data cores.
Bermag Point-Zero Ratel Alliance	Posted - 2007.02.23 10:03:00 - [408] Originally by: Vansard Trying to fix the T2 BPO issue without really developing the scientist career path doesn't make much sense to me. The true problem what a scientist is in eve? Because after being a lottery ticked, it becomes a datacore gatherer with some datacore/euro(usd) ratio. Well currently a scientist is just a lottery player When it comes to the inventor (which is the real profession) it is much more of a real profession IMO. It require a lot of investment in skills to be succesful (lvl 4 in the science skills used for a specific invention work + encryption skill). But still alts will be used to gather RP for data cores.
Bermag Point-Zero Ratel Alliance	Posted - 2007.02.23 10:35:00 - [409] Most of the posts in this thread is not talking about the changes proposed but instead vent their T2 envy First of all, T2 lottery doesn't happen that often. Usually when new T2 items are introduced in the game, with the exception of the "replacement" seeding made now for Revelation. before that it was 6 months without any T2 BPOs available. Question is if there will be that many new T2 items coming. Devs already said before that T3 will be seeded through invention. I have myself counted on that after the current T2 BPOs in lottery is gone that most of my RPs will be used for invention. I don't think it is necessary to remove the T2 BPOs. The value of T2 bpos comes from the profits you make on them. Invention will bring down because of increased supply. Lower profits will mean the T2 bpos will be less valuable. Sure, T2 BPO owners will still have a nice advantage with better ME/PE and not having to spend any time/ISK on inventing BPCs but let them have that advantage. And when new tech levels are introduced they will be even less valuable. Anyway, back to invention: I think it is much better to replace the lottery with invention IMO. But of course invention need some tweaks and fixes: - Cost of data cores - Drop rates of data interface bpcs/components - Drop rates of data cores - Max number of runs on invented bpcs - Probability of succesful invention - Remove the limit of buying only 4 data cores/ day. Serves no purpose IMO. - Let use buy cores from remote (just let us talk to agent no matter where we are and buy the data cores). Possibly also let us get the cores delivered to one location because it is a pain collecting cores form 5 agents spread out all over the galaxy.
Bermag Point-Zero Ratel Alliance	Posted - 2007.02.23 10:35:00 - [410] Most of the posts in this thread is not talking about the changes proposed but instead vent their T2 envy First of all, T2 lottery doesn't happen that often. Usually when new T2 items are introduced in the game, with the exception of the "replacement" seeding made now for Revelation. before that it was 6 months without any T2 BPOs available. Question is if there will be that many new T2 items coming. Devs already said before that T3 will be seeded through invention. I have myself counted on that after the current T2 BPOs in lottery is gone that most of my RPs will be used for invention. I don't think it is necessary to remove the T2 BPOs. The value of T2 bpos comes from the profits you make on them. Invention will bring down because of increased supply. Lower profits will mean the T2 bpos will be less valuable. Sure, T2 BPO owners will still have a nice advantage with better ME/PE and not having to spend any time/ISK on inventing BPCs but let them have that advantage. And when new tech levels are introduced they will be even less valuable. Anyway, back to invention: I think it is much better to replace the lottery with invention IMO. But of course invention need some tweaks and fixes: - Cost of data cores - Drop rates of data interface bpcs/components - Drop rates of data cores - Max number of runs on invented bpcs - Probability of succesful invention - Remove the limit of buying only 4 data cores/ day. Serves no purpose IMO. - Let use buy cores from remote (just let us talk to agent no matter where we are and buy the data cores). Possibly also let us get the cores delivered to one location because it is a pain collecting cores form 5 agents spread out all over the galaxy.

Dominique Vasilkovsky Techmart Industries	Posted - 2007.02.23 10:46:00 - [411] I did post a few pages back but after rethinking the whole situation here is another idea. Keep the T2 lottery as it is but only for currently seeded items, all new T2 ships/modules should be invention only. Eve is in a desperate need of isk sinks hence the blog about the new mission levels only giving LPs. How about changing it so datacores and decryptors only are available as exploration loot and in the lowsec NPC market? After all with the lottery remaining as is no sane players will convert their RPs into datacores. This would put an artificial cap on the max price of the datacores you get from exploration but since it is in lowsec I bet some people will find a good way to make money moving them to high sec. Also NPC prices adjust quickly if the demand gets too high, especially if the availability is in the 2-4 item range per station. And finally adjust the invention so the BPCs will be at ME0/PE0 and a minimum success rate of 50%. The BPO owners shouldn't be worried considering they still will have better ME/PE as well as no additional overhead caused by datacores, decryptors and invention slots. For example if the datacores will be at 1 mill each and decryptors starting from say 1 mill for the worst a 1 run HAC BPC would cost about 20 mill to make plus the interface which still should be exploration drop only. The BPO owners will still have an upper hand however they can kiss the 1000% markup prices goodbye. Everyone will be living happy ever after (except those currently with ISK printers).
Damir36 Gallente PPN United Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2007.02.23 10:56:00 - [412] OK, so just maker Tech II BPOs available on the Market (Its still more difficult to built than Tech I) to buy and start the Invention thing on Tech III! Grn¯e Damir Beware: German Link!:) Deutschprachige Piloten gesucht
Xander XacXorien	Posted - 2007.02.23 10:57:00 - [413] Some people have been talking about the loss of existing T2 BPOs being unfair. There ARE some problems with loosing T2 BPOs as a whole as the justification for moon mining suffers somewhat. However if there was sufficient demand for moon materials then this would not be a problem. The justification for the loss of T2 BPOs being unfair. Well there is NO fairness in Eve, I only have to look back at the changes in each patch. Some times you win and some times you loose. I happened to loose about a billion in the last patch, what's fair about that ? Things change, get used to the fact. What justification has there been for the T2 product monopoly ? It's done nothing but harm Eve for years, some lucky people have the chance to play Eve to the full while others play for years and cannot even scratch the surface of the game based on luck ? What's worse than this is you get people trying to force people into lowsec and 0.0 to face corps who CANNOT be beaten - they have far, far more resources than anyone else can even dream of if they played Eve for 10 years or more. Some may argue they put in the effort. For those that have put in the effort and got nothing I feel sorry for. However, those that have many research R&D alts, already have T2 BPOs and want more and more. That's just greedy and is in fact equivalent to a service denial to potentially 100's if not 1000's of accounts (I include the friends of people wishing to form 0.0 corps here). In my honest opinion T2 as a whole should be nerfed, down graded a lot. From this "nerfed" point a new system could be produced where a technological leap would have to be researched. Without the T2 nerf there is little space in the design of ships and modules for there to be research and development. One way it could be done is to research from T1. The next level of research being made easier if it has already been researched and an example of the technology is put into the process. If this would be done exponentially then progress would be rapid from the lower levels to progressively harder to the higher until everyone was on a similar playing field. Looking at missiles, the technological levels could be T1, "Makluth", "Limos", "TE2100", "Arbalest" and then "T2". This would make the current T2 BPOs obsolete in time. However I suggest that any development of T2 BPOs be put on hold until the system is working and people have had a chance to have an effect on the current T2 monopoly. Perhaps a further point on this research point. It would be good if the NPC corporations would tally the interactions between faction ships. Who wins and who looses in what should be a 50/50 encounter. The tally could then be used as a basis for NPC upgrading T1 design - hence bringing some form of balance. I know this is difficult but clearly a 90% win ratio between ships of a similar class is a warning flag no one should miss.
Chruker	Posted - 2007.02.23 10:58:00 - [414] I think that all tech levels should have BPOs available ingame. And here is how it could be made to work: * Make the tech 2 BPOs available in the market. Their prizes of cause being x times as expensive as the tech 1. BPCs would still be usefull to allow people to manufacture an item without having to buy the more expensive BPO. * Keep the BPO lottery and the work with R&D agents to gain RP. Inventioning has always had a bit of luck in the real world. So why shouldn't the R&D agents in EVE get the occational bright idea. The BPO lottery should however contain BPOs for all the tech levels (T1, T2, T3 etc). However the lower levels would just cost some amount of RP. Only the cutting edge BPOs would drain the RP count totally. * 'Invention' should be done from both BPOs and BPCs, since the only thing differentiating them is the licensed number of runs. However it would be a chance based output (lower than today). in a ME0/PE0 of the next tech level. It seems logical that first the nextgen technology is implented, then the ME and PE are improved. R&D agents should also sell interfaces (both build and as BPC) and decrypters for RP. These changes, would make tech 2 become more mainstream. While the cutting-edge tech 3 stuff is coming from the labs. When tech 4 eventually becomes introduced, tech 3 slips into mainstream, and the cycle can begins again. To me that seems to be the way it works in the real world. In the end: - Existing tech 2 BPOs owners would be keeping their BPOs, and they could even continue with collecting the tech 3 and other cutting-edge BPOs. - Those who want a tech 2 BPO, can either buy one on the market. Or try to use invention to gain one from a tech 1. - New cutting-edge BPOs will be available from the lottery/R&D agents, or through invention. And eventually from the market once the cycle repeat. Also CCP need to put the missing T1 BPOs on the market. Like: - Strip Miner I - Containers, ex: Giant Secure Container Finally, you could introduce Reverse Engineering, where you would give an agent a version of a ship, and then they would return a BPO. ----- CCP: Please make ship loot to drop in a can next to the wrecks.
Betonela Caldari School of Applied Knowledge	Posted - 2007.02.23 10:58:00 - [415] to make a HAC atm if u have a BPO cost u 30m/run question: will someone get same costs/run whit invention ? (atm no) --------- join on New Movement:Market Traders snip Sig removed as it is inappropriate. -Conuion Meow ([email protected])
Rabiator	Posted - 2007.02.23 11:01:00 - [416] Originally by: Graalum Many people and alliances put in large amounts of effort to procure their T2 BPO's. Many of the people complain about "isk printers" are nothing more than jealous, and debase the months of years of research to get an offer or the many hours of mining or ratting to buy one. People worked hard to get them, and if you want them, you can also get them. Deleting or somehow modifying BPO's serves an injustice to those who worked hard to get them, far greater than to those who did not have a chance to win them through lottery. Any one can get a T2 bpo, go out and earn one. Actually, Oveur hints at a possible end of the BPO lottery, so anyone might not be able to get T2 BPOs anymore. And that is something I would not accept as a new player, unless the old BPOs go: In the long run, I want a chance to catch up to those who have T2 BPOs now. Either by getting my own BPOs or by the existing ones being removed. If CCP makes that impossible, I might as well look for another game...
Ruffio Sepico Minmatar Hidden Agenda Deep Space Engineering	Posted - 2007.02.23 11:07:00 - [417] Edited by: Ruffio Sepico on 23/02/2007 11:08:19 Originally by: Dominique Vasilkovsky I did post a few pages back but after rethinking the whole situation here is another idea. Keep the T2 lottery as it is but only for currently seeded items, all new T2 ships/modules should be invention only. Eve is in a desperate need of isk sinks hence the blog about the new mission levels only giving LPs. How about changing it so datacores and decryptors only are available as exploration loot and in the lowsec NPC market? After all with the lottery remaining as is no sane players will convert their RPs into datacores. This would put an artificial cap on the max price of the datacores you get from exploration but since it is in lowsec I bet some people will find a good way to make money moving them to high sec. Also NPC prices adjust quickly if the demand gets too high, especially if the availability is in the 2-4 item range per station. And finally adjust the invention so the BPCs will be at ME0/PE0 and a minimum success rate of 50%. The BPO owners shouldn't be worried considering they still will have better ME/PE as well as no additional overhead caused by datacores, decryptors and invention slots. For example if the datacores will be at 1 mill each and decryptors starting from say 1 mill for the worst a 1 run HAC BPC would cost about 20 mill to make plus the interface which still should be exploration drop only. The BPO owners will still have an upper hand however they can kiss the 1000% markup prices goodbye. Everyone will be living happy ever after (except those currently with ISK printers). If you want science to be a player profession for real. Make Datacores and decryptors something players can build. Have the blueprints for these drop as datainterface blueprints today does. Skill requirement should be fairly high (science as a profession should require high skills anyways). Have decryptors and datacores make use of moon minerals (maybe some new reactions). It would boost pos's too which really need some love. Make copy time of tech1 prints longer, and have the result of the invention job based more on the runs/pe/me value of the tech1 copy + your skills. Make the decryptors enhance the ME/PE value on invented bpc, but have them take more time. So better the decryptor the longer time to do the job. Home: http://www.hidden-agenda.co.uk
Ruffio Sepico Minmatar Hidden Agenda Deep Space Engineering	Posted - 2007.02.23 11:10:00 - [418] Originally by: Betonela to make a HAC atm if u have a BPO cost u 30m/run question: will someone get same costs/run whit invention ? (atm no) Its not about how much it cost to make, but how much you earn from do it. So you earn xx mill less than someone with a bpo, but you still earn xxx mill more than you would not doing it. Its in the nature of the players to get as much as you can from your time/effort. A t2 bpo holder wouldnt start sell at cost price just because invetors hit the market. Home: http://www.hidden-agenda.co.uk
Betonela Caldari School of Applied Knowledge	Posted - 2007.02.23 11:15:00 - [419] Originally by: Ruffio Sepico Originally by: Betonela to make a HAC atm if u have a BPO cost u 30m/run question: will someone get same costs/run whit invention ? (atm no) Its not about how much it cost to make, but how much you earn from do it. So you earn xx mill less than someone with a bpo, but you still earn xxx mill more than you would not doing it. Its in the nature of the players to get as much as you can from your time/effort. A t2 bpo holder wouldnt start sell at cost price just because invetors hit the market. i talk about cost price because on war time u buy stuff at cost price if u dont have a BPO u cant get that prices --------- join on New Movement:Market Traders snip Sig removed as it is inappropriate. -Conuion Meow ([email protected])
Evandra Gallente	Posted - 2007.02.23 11:17:00 - [420] i think that this could work in the long run when ppl start spending their r&d points on the cores and such. i am all for it altough those who spent quite some time/money in earning t2 bpo's will understandable whine about it but with the given system we have i really think this is much more fun and if invention process is tweaked a bit it will lower the t2 prices in the long run i think - which is heavily needed. just think of the hulk with like what ? 40 mil cost for materials and we all know what it sells for. further more we players can activly work to get t2 items beside earning isk and buying them and i for one love to make my own stuff whenever possible :) but as some posters said i think adding the chance of creating a bpo with invention is no bad idea at all and adds some higher goal to invention to obtain as well - you know we players always love higher goals you can't reach fast and they keep us playing :) eve is full of such goals why leave it out here. keep up the good work O/ so far -evandra



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