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XGP Darkside
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Posted - 2007.02.22 11:23:00 -
[1]
How many hulk BPOs are currently in circulation in Eve, the prices of this ship have gone beyond a joke now at 595mil for the ship that is ment to operate in 0.0 space.. along with 100mil fittings you are looking at floating through 0.0 space in 700mils worth of mining barge that is nearly unprotected.
I know what people will say about the fact that you shouldnt lose a barge because the pilot should watch local & dock but at these prices a simple mistake can cost you more than it should.. along with the risk factor you also have the t1 version the covetor going at 20-25mil each and only 15% less efficient if i'm correct.
I think more BPOs should be introduced into the game to create competition between sellers and allow more people to produce them.. competition between sellers means prices will drop.
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JForce
N.W.A
Soldiers of the Forgotten Abyss
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Posted - 2007.02.22 11:26:00 -
[2]
The Hulk is the single biggest crock of **** in Eve today when it comes to the market. People will buy them tho, so it is market forces.
Doesn't make it right tho. |
Tista
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Posted - 2007.02.22 11:31:00 -
[3]
Edited by: Tista on 22/02/2007 11:28:43
Bleh wrong post!
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XGP Darkside
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Posted - 2007.02.22 11:32:00 -
[4]
 Originally by: JForce
The Hulk is the single biggest crock of **** in Eve today when it comes to the market. People will buy them tho, so it is market forces.
Doesn't make it right tho.
the hulk was an example.. to be honest i think CCP needs to re-think how they address their customers.. since there is no clear goal of CCP such as why should t2 ships cost 100x the t1 versions price?
and why should t2 ships be un-insurable.. is it because the market is so inbalanced that at any point the insurance cost of a t2 ship could be more than the ship sales price?
To be perfectly honest i think i could run customer relations for CCP better than they do currently and im a 17 year old school drop-out.
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Bienurdau Hywoaf
Minmatar
Matari Holo News Network
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Posted - 2007.02.22 11:33:00 -
[5]
I've noticed fewer Hulks on the market lately.
This could be a result of the war. It is possible that someone involved in the war owns a majority of the Hulk BPOs as such with efforts turned towards combat ships, we might see less Hulks in the future.
I look for all ship prices to increase because I believe that mineral prices are going to rise in the coming 2 months of the war. Most of the alliances stockpiles can probably take them 1 to 2 months, beyond that prices will begin to rise as folks try to keep fighting ships going.
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Hennry Fromer
Gallente
radiated space gerbils
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Posted - 2007.02.22 11:35:00 -
[6]
As you can see from the thread about tech2 lottery gooing away and the dev blog there is some discussion and planning going on now. Your right the hulks are overpriced and no matter what cost if you want one you will spend what you have to to get one.
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Bienurdau Hywoaf
Minmatar
Matari Holo News Network
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Posted - 2007.02.22 11:35:00 -
[7]
Originally by: XGP Darkside
Originally by: JForce
The Hulk is the single biggest crock of **** in Eve today when it comes to the market. People will buy them tho, so it is market forces.
Doesn't make it right tho.
the hulk was an example.. to be honest i think CCP needs to re-think how they address their customers.. since there is no clear goal of CCP such as why should t2 ships cost 100x the t1 versions price?
and why should t2 ships be un-insurable.. is it because the market is so inbalanced that at any point the insurance cost of a t2 ship could be more than the ship sales price?
To be perfectly honest i think i could run customer relations for CCP better than they do currently and im a 17 year old school drop-out.
Insurance is based on the minerals it takes to build a ship for all ship types. Tech 2 market prices are out of whack because they have kept the supply small due to the lottery.
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XGP Darkside
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Posted - 2007.02.22 11:39:00 -
[8]
i know a hulk BPO owner myself and i know that he has personal goals.. such as obtaining 100billion isk by summer.
this is where the problem lies in Eve.. people with no buisness sense or experience running something for personal profit.. now when it effects the other 30000 players it becomes an issue.
Now i dont blame people with no knowladge of buisness but when they own the market for one of the most wanted ships in eve it is problem.
If things were as they should be.. which they arnt.. things would happen in this order:
Hulk prices rise for owners personal benifit.
Hulk prices rise too high and people stop buying them.
Seller relises this is an issue.
Seller reduces prices and stock sells like hot-cakes.
but this doesnt happen in eve.. as we can see with the price of the Cerberus class heavy assault ship, this ship is currently sold for anything between 200mil and 250mil.. this ship is most certainly one of the most wanted in eve but because the BPOs are so few and the owners become greedy they just arnt worth the isk.
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JForce
N.W.A
Soldiers of the Forgotten Abyss
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Posted - 2007.02.22 11:42:00 -
[9]
Originally by: XGP Darkside
i know a hulk BPO owner myself and i know that he has personal goals.. such as obtaining 100billion isk by summer.
this is where the problem lies in Eve.. people with no buisness sense or experience running something for personal profit.. now when it effects the other 30000 players it becomes an issue.
Now i dont blame people with no knowladge of buisness but when they own the market for one of the most wanted ships in eve it is problem.
If things were as they should be.. which they arnt.. things would happen in this order:
Hulk prices rise for owners personal benifit.
Hulk prices rise too high and people stop buying them.
Seller relises this is an issue.
Seller reduces prices and stock sells like hot-cakes.
but this doesnt happen in eve.. as we can see with the price of the Cerberus class heavy assault ship, this ship is currently sold for anything between 200mil and 250mil.. this ship is most certainly one of the most wanted in eve but because the BPOs are so few and the owners become greedy they just arnt worth the isk.
That's just the market at work tho, and to be honest I think that's a good thing, as it shows the market as it is, WORKS.
That DOESN'T mean I don't think the market should be changed. |
Lord WarATron
Amarr
Black Nova Corp
Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2007.02.22 11:45:00 -
[10]
Edited by: Lord WarATron on 22/02/2007 11:47:55
As you have guessed, demand outweighs supply. Hulks only sell for that price because the people who make them sell them for maximum profit. Nothing wrong with that. The extra mining amount that a hulk can bring means that it will repay for itself in a few days mining. But thats not the main reason - the hulk can tank 0.0 spawns, which covetors cannot do, thus this is factored into the equasion.
Insurance value is baised on mineral value to prevent scams, so insurance can never give you 600mil back for a hulk, otherwise the hulk producers will just sell hulks at 100billion each, and self destruct for 100bil.
CCP is taking steps at the moment, as can be seen via the bpo seeding. Just be patient and mine in a battleship or covetor till things settle down. CCP did say that they wanted t2 to be a baseline for when t3 is launched, so affordable t2 to the majority is one of their goals. This can only happen if supply is such that the prices would decrease.
But till then - lets see if hulks get more expensive than carriers :)
--
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Dark Shikari
Caldari
Imperium Technologies
Firmus Ixion
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Posted - 2007.02.22 11:46:00 -
[11]
There are roughly 20 BPOs of each type, plus those released in the new reseeding, so I'd guess 25-30.
Hulks only build about one a day, and carebears keep buying them; so the price stays high.
EVE-Trance Radio--The EVE Textboard |
XGP Darkside
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Posted - 2007.02.22 11:47:00 -
[12]
A solution to this issue is to simply impliment more T2 BPOs into the game.. now CCP wont take notice of this because they hardly know what they are doing when it comes to game balance or decency.. though i must admit they are getting better.
Introduce lets say.. 1000% more of each t2 BPO currently in existence in Eve.. which basicly means 10x the amount.
After a while enough ships will be produced to reduce the price through competition.
Along with future plans for getting more miners by myself and others i think this would benifit eve as a whole.
At current people moan and complain about just about anything in eve.. the introduction of more BPOs would reduce this considerably since people would not feel as frustrated when losing their last months hard earned isk in an instant.
Along with this change CCP should introduce a cap.. or limit to the price certain things can be sold at.. though this isnt really nessasery it might help prices drop then the cap could be removed after a months use and prices cna go free again.
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XGP Darkside
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Posted - 2007.02.22 11:50:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Dark Shikari
There are roughly 20 BPOs of each type, plus those released in the new reseeding, so I'd guess 25-30.
Hulks only build about one a day, and carebears keep buying them; so the price stays high.
tripple that amount and it will almost certainly solve this.
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kember
Gallente
Orion Faction
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Posted - 2007.02.22 11:57:00 -
[14]
Let us invent Hulk BPC's from Coveter BPC's.
Then we all get Hulks and clean the galaxy of all roids.
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XGP Darkside
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Posted - 2007.02.22 11:59:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Lord WarATron
Edited by: Lord WarATron on 22/02/2007 11:44:47
CCP is taking steps at the moment, as can be seen via the bpo seeding. Just be patient and mine in a battleship or covetor till things settle down. CCP did say that they wanted t2 to be a baseline for when t3 is launched, so affordable t2 to the majority is one of their goals. This can only happen if supply is such that the prices would decrease.
But till then - lets see if hulks get more expensive than carriers :)
CCP has made steps to solve things in the past such as balancing ships.. or the idea of changing the MWD to reduce i-stab nano ship.. as can be seen by these changes CCP doesnt really know what they are doing as far as they go.
Yes Eve needs to be balanced and altered for the benifit of the players but the way it is gone about such as when it comes to balancing a single ship of a class... lets say the Apocalypse.. CCP wouldn't usualy improve that single ship.. they would just nerf the other 11 battleships.. but as i said beore they are getting better at this and starting to see that nerfing the others doesnt make that one any better.
removing BPOs from Eve wouldnt help anyone.. the addition of invention is a bonus but for its own reasons.. this has nothing to do with production and BPOs.
CCP needs to stop doing year old decisions on the game and start changing things now, by this i mean every single decision made takes around 6 months to be implimented.. even though most assume it is so they can obtain "feed-back" from players about the changes.. most of the time our requests do not influence the game atall.
Drones as an example have been an issue for years now.. an issue CCP seems determind not to sort, even though i believe they said they would have a new dev working on that issue it will be months before we get anything new on that single issue.
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halic
Gallente
The Scope
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Posted - 2007.02.22 12:10:00 -
[16]
it has to do with seeding i feel if people want to sell them for 500mill so be it you don't have to buy i can afford to buy one but i wont cause the price is insane the t2 lottery has been screwed up for a long time, eve will never be balenced-perfect and thats ok with me. it is just a game.
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Crumplecorn
Gallente
Eve Cluster Explorations
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Posted - 2007.02.22 12:13:00 -
[17]
Originally by: XGP Darkside
A solution to this issue is to simply impliment more T2 BPOs into the game.. now CCP wont take notice of this because they hardly know what they are doing when it comes to game balance or decency.. though i must admit they are getting better.
Neither do you apparently, since this is probably the most commonly shot down 'solution' to T2.
CCP are fine at balancing stuff, it's just that Eve's playerbase are even better at breaking stuff.
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Verone for President of EVE |
Magnum III
Journey On Squad
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Posted - 2007.02.22 12:15:00 -
[18]
Edited by: Magnum III on 22/02/2007 12:15:51
Edited by: Magnum III on 22/02/2007 12:13:38
It is unrealistic not to have plenty of T2 BPO's.
There should be as many as BPO's as there are people working hard to get them from agents.
How can more people work to get them and more often and the same amount of new T2 BPO's are made? That is bull.
Also do the people who collect all the supplies and minerals to make these Hulks get most of the profit or just the guy with the BPO who only owns it? Why should he get most of the profit just for owning the BPO?
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XGP Darkside
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Posted - 2007.02.22 12:15:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Crumplecorn
Originally by: XGP Darkside
A solution to this issue is to simply impliment more T2 BPOs into the game.. now CCP wont take notice of this because they hardly know what they are doing when it comes to game balance or decency.. though i must admit they are getting better.
Neither do you apparently, since this is probably the most commonly shot down 'solution' to T2.
yep but im not paid to do it though.
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XGP Darkside
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Posted - 2007.02.22 12:18:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Magnum III
It is unrealistic not to have plenty of T2 BPO's.
Also do the people who collect all the supplies and minerals to make these Hulks get most of the profit or just the guy with the BPO who only owns it? Why should he get most of the profit just for owning the BPO?
Yes the BPO owner for a hulk earns roughly 550mil per sale every 22 hours a new hulk is produced.
it is roughly 40mil for the production of each hulk.
Cerberus, ishtar, vagabond, and zealot all cost roughly 17mil to make and they then sell at 10/20x that price.
If you own a popular T2 bpo in eve you can effectivly buy a titan in 100 days.
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Crumplecorn
Gallente
Eve Cluster Explorations
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Posted - 2007.02.22 12:23:00 -
[21]
Originally by: XGP Darkside
Originally by: Crumplecorn
Originally by: XGP Darkside
A solution to this issue is to simply impliment more T2 BPOs into the game.. now CCP wont take notice of this because they hardly know what they are doing when it comes to game balance or decency.. though i must admit they are getting better.
Neither do you apparently, since this is probably the most commonly shot down 'solution' to T2.
yep but im not paid to do it though.
You cut out the bit where I said CCP do it just fine. And they are paid for it. And so the world is safe again.
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Verone for President of EVE |
Malcanis
Galactech Industries Ltd.
Freelancer Alliance
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Posted - 2007.02.22 12:28:00 -
[22]
"along with the risk factor you also have the t1 version the covetor going at 20-25mil each and only 15% less efficient if i'm correct."
So... you'll have to mine something like 3 or 3.5Bn ISK worth of ore to make the Hulk start paying for itself over the Covetor (not to mention that you can skill up for t2 mining drones quite quickly)?
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Gnulpie
Minmatar
Miner Tech
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Posted - 2007.02.22 12:30:00 -
[23]
LOL
You sound as if you have a _right_ to have a Hulk for a low price. Very funny.
If you think the Hulk is not worth its price, don't buy it, simple enough. If you think it is worth its price, why the fuss? 
The op says the covetor is is only 15% less efficient and costs only 25 mil? Yes? Then why doesn't he stick to it if the Hulk is that exorbitant expensive?
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Imuran
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Posted - 2007.02.22 12:33:00 -
[24]
Originally by: kember
Let us invent Hulk BPC's from Coveter BPC's.
Then we all get Hulks and clean the galaxy of all roids.
Am the Strip Miner II to go with them
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XGP Darkside
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Posted - 2007.02.22 12:33:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Malcanis
"along with the risk factor you also have the t1 version the covetor going at 20-25mil each and only 15% less efficient if i'm correct."
So... you'll have to mine something like 3 or 3.5Bn ISK worth of ore to make the Hulk start paying for itself over the Covetor (not to mention that you can skill up for t2 mining drones quite quickly)?
i dont think you understand my point.
if you go into 0.0 space in 700mils worth of ship you are at risk of losing 700mil.
Now the covetor lacks some things the hulk has such as resists and the 3% per exhumer level but at 22 million isk its far far less of a risk.
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XGP Darkside
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Posted - 2007.02.22 12:36:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Gnulpie
LOL
You sound as if you have a _right_ to have a Hulk for a low price. Very funny.
If you think the Hulk is not worth its price, don't buy it, simple enough. If you think it is worth its price, why the fuss?
This is a general theme for t2 ships, the hulk is just a good example of the issue.
I believe eve is about the players.. not the players with BPOs.. balance is key in this game and is strived for.. but when the market aspect of the game is off the charts.. how can CCP expect it to be balanced?
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Malcanis
Galactech Industries Ltd.
Freelancer Alliance
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Posted - 2007.02.22 12:52:00 -
[27]
Originally by: XGP Darkside
Originally by: Malcanis
"along with the risk factor you also have the t1 version the covetor going at 20-25mil each and only 15% less efficient if i'm correct."
So... you'll have to mine something like 3 or 3.5Bn ISK worth of ore to make the Hulk start paying for itself over the Covetor (not to mention that you can skill up for t2 mining drones quite quickly)?
i dont think you understand my point.
if you go into 0.0 space in 700mils worth of ship you are at risk of losing 700mil.
Now the covetor lacks some things the hulk has such as resists and the 3% per exhumer level but at 22 million isk its far far less of a risk.
I understood what you were saying, I just wanted to check if my maths was correct and that it would be a waste of ISK buying a Hulk right now; apparently it would be.
Cool! Now I can spend the money on something more fun instead.
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Serendib
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Posted - 2007.02.22 13:55:00 -
[28]
There will never be more HULK Bpo's to be even more correct forget about the tec 2 BPO. For the ones that wrote on this post and haven't been reading the dev blogs a newsflash for you. !!! END OF LOTTERY SYSTEM, WANT A TEC 2 ITEM GO INVENT IT !!!
Yeah i know ccp screwed up and forgot to had the possibility of inventing Hulks, but this is easily fixed and they will do it soon.
Now Another point think a bit about the reseeding of tec 2 BPO, like 1 previous poster said my friend objective is to reach 100 billion ISK by the summer... If a new BPO would be inserted in game do you really think this guy or 1 of the another 1000 very rich players that want to get richer wouldn't buy it just to keep the MONOPOLY of the sales?? Think about it... What would stop them? The owner not selling the BPO? If it got in the hands of another greedy one bye bye cheaper hulks... Reseeding is not the solution and CCP FINALLY seen it.
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Live Eye
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Posted - 2007.02.22 15:18:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Serendib
There will never be more HULK Bpo's to be even more correct forget about the tec 2 BPO. For the ones that wrote on this post and haven't been reading the dev blogs a newsflash for you. !!! END OF LOTTERY SYSTEM, WANT A TEC 2 ITEM GO INVENT IT !!!
Nothing you just said as a statement is even close to an official thing that "will" be happening. Just your opinion worked into a fact in your own mind...
Live Eye
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agel blonde
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Posted - 2007.02.22 15:20:00 -
[30]
I know CCP is allowing supply and demand to control the markets, but surely than can include some script such that if a particular item reached a certain price then some become seeded on the market at a lower price to increase competition and force the market down.
This would have the same effect as releasing more bpos and allow CCP to somewhat stop things on the market from getting out of control |
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