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XGP Darkside
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Posted - 2007.02.22 11:23:00 -
[1]
How many hulk BPOs are currently in circulation in Eve, the prices of this ship have gone beyond a joke now at 595mil for the ship that is ment to operate in 0.0 space.. along with 100mil fittings you are looking at floating through 0.0 space in 700mils worth of mining barge that is nearly unprotected.
I know what people will say about the fact that you shouldnt lose a barge because the pilot should watch local & dock but at these prices a simple mistake can cost you more than it should.. along with the risk factor you also have the t1 version the covetor going at 20-25mil each and only 15% less efficient if i'm correct.
I think more BPOs should be introduced into the game to create competition between sellers and allow more people to produce them.. competition between sellers means prices will drop.
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JForce
N.W.A
Soldiers of the Forgotten Abyss
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Posted - 2007.02.22 11:26:00 -
[2]
The Hulk is the single biggest crock of **** in Eve today when it comes to the market. People will buy them tho, so it is market forces.
Doesn't make it right tho. |
Tista
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Posted - 2007.02.22 11:31:00 -
[3]
Edited by: Tista on 22/02/2007 11:28:43
Bleh wrong post!
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XGP Darkside
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Posted - 2007.02.22 11:32:00 -
[4]
 Originally by: JForce
The Hulk is the single biggest crock of **** in Eve today when it comes to the market. People will buy them tho, so it is market forces.
Doesn't make it right tho.
the hulk was an example.. to be honest i think CCP needs to re-think how they address their customers.. since there is no clear goal of CCP such as why should t2 ships cost 100x the t1 versions price?
and why should t2 ships be un-insurable.. is it because the market is so inbalanced that at any point the insurance cost of a t2 ship could be more than the ship sales price?
To be perfectly honest i think i could run customer relations for CCP better than they do currently and im a 17 year old school drop-out.
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Bienurdau Hywoaf
Minmatar
Matari Holo News Network
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Posted - 2007.02.22 11:33:00 -
[5]
I've noticed fewer Hulks on the market lately.
This could be a result of the war. It is possible that someone involved in the war owns a majority of the Hulk BPOs as such with efforts turned towards combat ships, we might see less Hulks in the future.
I look for all ship prices to increase because I believe that mineral prices are going to rise in the coming 2 months of the war. Most of the alliances stockpiles can probably take them 1 to 2 months, beyond that prices will begin to rise as folks try to keep fighting ships going.
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Hennry Fromer
Gallente
radiated space gerbils
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Posted - 2007.02.22 11:35:00 -
[6]
As you can see from the thread about tech2 lottery gooing away and the dev blog there is some discussion and planning going on now. Your right the hulks are overpriced and no matter what cost if you want one you will spend what you have to to get one.
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Bienurdau Hywoaf
Minmatar
Matari Holo News Network
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Posted - 2007.02.22 11:35:00 -
[7]
Originally by: XGP Darkside
Originally by: JForce
The Hulk is the single biggest crock of **** in Eve today when it comes to the market. People will buy them tho, so it is market forces.
Doesn't make it right tho.
the hulk was an example.. to be honest i think CCP needs to re-think how they address their customers.. since there is no clear goal of CCP such as why should t2 ships cost 100x the t1 versions price?
and why should t2 ships be un-insurable.. is it because the market is so inbalanced that at any point the insurance cost of a t2 ship could be more than the ship sales price?
To be perfectly honest i think i could run customer relations for CCP better than they do currently and im a 17 year old school drop-out.
Insurance is based on the minerals it takes to build a ship for all ship types. Tech 2 market prices are out of whack because they have kept the supply small due to the lottery.
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XGP Darkside
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Posted - 2007.02.22 11:39:00 -
[8]
i know a hulk BPO owner myself and i know that he has personal goals.. such as obtaining 100billion isk by summer.
this is where the problem lies in Eve.. people with no buisness sense or experience running something for personal profit.. now when it effects the other 30000 players it becomes an issue.
Now i dont blame people with no knowladge of buisness but when they own the market for one of the most wanted ships in eve it is problem.
If things were as they should be.. which they arnt.. things would happen in this order:
Hulk prices rise for owners personal benifit.
Hulk prices rise too high and people stop buying them.
Seller relises this is an issue.
Seller reduces prices and stock sells like hot-cakes.
but this doesnt happen in eve.. as we can see with the price of the Cerberus class heavy assault ship, this ship is currently sold for anything between 200mil and 250mil.. this ship is most certainly one of the most wanted in eve but because the BPOs are so few and the owners become greedy they just arnt worth the isk.
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JForce
N.W.A
Soldiers of the Forgotten Abyss
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Posted - 2007.02.22 11:42:00 -
[9]
Originally by: XGP Darkside
i know a hulk BPO owner myself and i know that he has personal goals.. such as obtaining 100billion isk by summer.
this is where the problem lies in Eve.. people with no buisness sense or experience running something for personal profit.. now when it effects the other 30000 players it becomes an issue.
Now i dont blame people with no knowladge of buisness but when they own the market for one of the most wanted ships in eve it is problem.
If things were as they should be.. which they arnt.. things would happen in this order:
Hulk prices rise for owners personal benifit.
Hulk prices rise too high and people stop buying them.
Seller relises this is an issue.
Seller reduces prices and stock sells like hot-cakes.
but this doesnt happen in eve.. as we can see with the price of the Cerberus class heavy assault ship, this ship is currently sold for anything between 200mil and 250mil.. this ship is most certainly one of the most wanted in eve but because the BPOs are so few and the owners become greedy they just arnt worth the isk.
That's just the market at work tho, and to be honest I think that's a good thing, as it shows the market as it is, WORKS.
That DOESN'T mean I don't think the market should be changed. |
Lord WarATron
Amarr
Black Nova Corp
Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2007.02.22 11:45:00 -
[10]
Edited by: Lord WarATron on 22/02/2007 11:47:55
As you have guessed, demand outweighs supply. Hulks only sell for that price because the people who make them sell them for maximum profit. Nothing wrong with that. The extra mining amount that a hulk can bring means that it will repay for itself in a few days mining. But thats not the main reason - the hulk can tank 0.0 spawns, which covetors cannot do, thus this is factored into the equasion.
Insurance value is baised on mineral value to prevent scams, so insurance can never give you 600mil back for a hulk, otherwise the hulk producers will just sell hulks at 100billion each, and self destruct for 100bil.
CCP is taking steps at the moment, as can be seen via the bpo seeding. Just be patient and mine in a battleship or covetor till things settle down. CCP did say that they wanted t2 to be a baseline for when t3 is launched, so affordable t2 to the majority is one of their goals. This can only happen if supply is such that the prices would decrease.
But till then - lets see if hulks get more expensive than carriers :)
--
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Dark Shikari
Caldari
Imperium Technologies
Firmus Ixion
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Posted - 2007.02.22 11:46:00 -
[11]
There are roughly 20 BPOs of each type, plus those released in the new reseeding, so I'd guess 25-30.
Hulks only build about one a day, and carebears keep buying them; so the price stays high.
EVE-Trance Radio--The EVE Textboard |
XGP Darkside
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Posted - 2007.02.22 11:47:00 -
[12]
A solution to this issue is to simply impliment more T2 BPOs into the game.. now CCP wont take notice of this because they hardly know what they are doing when it comes to game balance or decency.. though i must admit they are getting better.
Introduce lets say.. 1000% more of each t2 BPO currently in existence in Eve.. which basicly means 10x the amount.
After a while enough ships will be produced to reduce the price through competition.
Along with future plans for getting more miners by myself and others i think this would benifit eve as a whole.
At current people moan and complain about just about anything in eve.. the introduction of more BPOs would reduce this considerably since people would not feel as frustrated when losing their last months hard earned isk in an instant.
Along with this change CCP should introduce a cap.. or limit to the price certain things can be sold at.. though this isnt really nessasery it might help prices drop then the cap could be removed after a months use and prices cna go free again.
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XGP Darkside
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Posted - 2007.02.22 11:50:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Dark Shikari
There are roughly 20 BPOs of each type, plus those released in the new reseeding, so I'd guess 25-30.
Hulks only build about one a day, and carebears keep buying them; so the price stays high.
tripple that amount and it will almost certainly solve this.
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kember
Gallente
Orion Faction
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Posted - 2007.02.22 11:57:00 -
[14]
Let us invent Hulk BPC's from Coveter BPC's.
Then we all get Hulks and clean the galaxy of all roids.
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XGP Darkside
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Posted - 2007.02.22 11:59:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Lord WarATron
Edited by: Lord WarATron on 22/02/2007 11:44:47
CCP is taking steps at the moment, as can be seen via the bpo seeding. Just be patient and mine in a battleship or covetor till things settle down. CCP did say that they wanted t2 to be a baseline for when t3 is launched, so affordable t2 to the majority is one of their goals. This can only happen if supply is such that the prices would decrease.
But till then - lets see if hulks get more expensive than carriers :)
CCP has made steps to solve things in the past such as balancing ships.. or the idea of changing the MWD to reduce i-stab nano ship.. as can be seen by these changes CCP doesnt really know what they are doing as far as they go.
Yes Eve needs to be balanced and altered for the benifit of the players but the way it is gone about such as when it comes to balancing a single ship of a class... lets say the Apocalypse.. CCP wouldn't usualy improve that single ship.. they would just nerf the other 11 battleships.. but as i said beore they are getting better at this and starting to see that nerfing the others doesnt make that one any better.
removing BPOs from Eve wouldnt help anyone.. the addition of invention is a bonus but for its own reasons.. this has nothing to do with production and BPOs.
CCP needs to stop doing year old decisions on the game and start changing things now, by this i mean every single decision made takes around 6 months to be implimented.. even though most assume it is so they can obtain "feed-back" from players about the changes.. most of the time our requests do not influence the game atall.
Drones as an example have been an issue for years now.. an issue CCP seems determind not to sort, even though i believe they said they would have a new dev working on that issue it will be months before we get anything new on that single issue.
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halic
Gallente
The Scope
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Posted - 2007.02.22 12:10:00 -
[16]
it has to do with seeding i feel if people want to sell them for 500mill so be it you don't have to buy i can afford to buy one but i wont cause the price is insane the t2 lottery has been screwed up for a long time, eve will never be balenced-perfect and thats ok with me. it is just a game.
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Crumplecorn
Gallente
Eve Cluster Explorations
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Posted - 2007.02.22 12:13:00 -
[17]
Originally by: XGP Darkside
A solution to this issue is to simply impliment more T2 BPOs into the game.. now CCP wont take notice of this because they hardly know what they are doing when it comes to game balance or decency.. though i must admit they are getting better.
Neither do you apparently, since this is probably the most commonly shot down 'solution' to T2.
CCP are fine at balancing stuff, it's just that Eve's playerbase are even better at breaking stuff.
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Verone for President of EVE |
Magnum III
Journey On Squad
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Posted - 2007.02.22 12:15:00 -
[18]
Edited by: Magnum III on 22/02/2007 12:15:51
Edited by: Magnum III on 22/02/2007 12:13:38
It is unrealistic not to have plenty of T2 BPO's.
There should be as many as BPO's as there are people working hard to get them from agents.
How can more people work to get them and more often and the same amount of new T2 BPO's are made? That is bull.
Also do the people who collect all the supplies and minerals to make these Hulks get most of the profit or just the guy with the BPO who only owns it? Why should he get most of the profit just for owning the BPO?
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XGP Darkside
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Posted - 2007.02.22 12:15:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Crumplecorn
Originally by: XGP Darkside
A solution to this issue is to simply impliment more T2 BPOs into the game.. now CCP wont take notice of this because they hardly know what they are doing when it comes to game balance or decency.. though i must admit they are getting better.
Neither do you apparently, since this is probably the most commonly shot down 'solution' to T2.
yep but im not paid to do it though.
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XGP Darkside
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Posted - 2007.02.22 12:18:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Magnum III
It is unrealistic not to have plenty of T2 BPO's.
Also do the people who collect all the supplies and minerals to make these Hulks get most of the profit or just the guy with the BPO who only owns it? Why should he get most of the profit just for owning the BPO?
Yes the BPO owner for a hulk earns roughly 550mil per sale every 22 hours a new hulk is produced.
it is roughly 40mil for the production of each hulk.
Cerberus, ishtar, vagabond, and zealot all cost roughly 17mil to make and they then sell at 10/20x that price.
If you own a popular T2 bpo in eve you can effectivly buy a titan in 100 days.
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Crumplecorn
Gallente
Eve Cluster Explorations
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Posted - 2007.02.22 12:23:00 -
[21]
Originally by: XGP Darkside
Originally by: Crumplecorn
Originally by: XGP Darkside
A solution to this issue is to simply impliment more T2 BPOs into the game.. now CCP wont take notice of this because they hardly know what they are doing when it comes to game balance or decency.. though i must admit they are getting better.
Neither do you apparently, since this is probably the most commonly shot down 'solution' to T2.
yep but im not paid to do it though.
You cut out the bit where I said CCP do it just fine. And they are paid for it. And so the world is safe again.
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Verone for President of EVE |
Malcanis
Galactech Industries Ltd.
Freelancer Alliance
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Posted - 2007.02.22 12:28:00 -
[22]
"along with the risk factor you also have the t1 version the covetor going at 20-25mil each and only 15% less efficient if i'm correct."
So... you'll have to mine something like 3 or 3.5Bn ISK worth of ore to make the Hulk start paying for itself over the Covetor (not to mention that you can skill up for t2 mining drones quite quickly)?
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Gnulpie
Minmatar
Miner Tech
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Posted - 2007.02.22 12:30:00 -
[23]
LOL
You sound as if you have a _right_ to have a Hulk for a low price. Very funny.
If you think the Hulk is not worth its price, don't buy it, simple enough. If you think it is worth its price, why the fuss? 
The op says the covetor is is only 15% less efficient and costs only 25 mil? Yes? Then why doesn't he stick to it if the Hulk is that exorbitant expensive?
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Imuran
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Posted - 2007.02.22 12:33:00 -
[24]
Originally by: kember
Let us invent Hulk BPC's from Coveter BPC's.
Then we all get Hulks and clean the galaxy of all roids.
Am the Strip Miner II to go with them
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XGP Darkside
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Posted - 2007.02.22 12:33:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Malcanis
"along with the risk factor you also have the t1 version the covetor going at 20-25mil each and only 15% less efficient if i'm correct."
So... you'll have to mine something like 3 or 3.5Bn ISK worth of ore to make the Hulk start paying for itself over the Covetor (not to mention that you can skill up for t2 mining drones quite quickly)?
i dont think you understand my point.
if you go into 0.0 space in 700mils worth of ship you are at risk of losing 700mil.
Now the covetor lacks some things the hulk has such as resists and the 3% per exhumer level but at 22 million isk its far far less of a risk.
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XGP Darkside
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Posted - 2007.02.22 12:36:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Gnulpie
LOL
You sound as if you have a _right_ to have a Hulk for a low price. Very funny.
If you think the Hulk is not worth its price, don't buy it, simple enough. If you think it is worth its price, why the fuss?
This is a general theme for t2 ships, the hulk is just a good example of the issue.
I believe eve is about the players.. not the players with BPOs.. balance is key in this game and is strived for.. but when the market aspect of the game is off the charts.. how can CCP expect it to be balanced?
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Malcanis
Galactech Industries Ltd.
Freelancer Alliance
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Posted - 2007.02.22 12:52:00 -
[27]
Originally by: XGP Darkside
Originally by: Malcanis
"along with the risk factor you also have the t1 version the covetor going at 20-25mil each and only 15% less efficient if i'm correct."
So... you'll have to mine something like 3 or 3.5Bn ISK worth of ore to make the Hulk start paying for itself over the Covetor (not to mention that you can skill up for t2 mining drones quite quickly)?
i dont think you understand my point.
if you go into 0.0 space in 700mils worth of ship you are at risk of losing 700mil.
Now the covetor lacks some things the hulk has such as resists and the 3% per exhumer level but at 22 million isk its far far less of a risk.
I understood what you were saying, I just wanted to check if my maths was correct and that it would be a waste of ISK buying a Hulk right now; apparently it would be.
Cool! Now I can spend the money on something more fun instead.
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Serendib
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Posted - 2007.02.22 13:55:00 -
[28]
There will never be more HULK Bpo's to be even more correct forget about the tec 2 BPO. For the ones that wrote on this post and haven't been reading the dev blogs a newsflash for you. !!! END OF LOTTERY SYSTEM, WANT A TEC 2 ITEM GO INVENT IT !!!
Yeah i know ccp screwed up and forgot to had the possibility of inventing Hulks, but this is easily fixed and they will do it soon.
Now Another point think a bit about the reseeding of tec 2 BPO, like 1 previous poster said my friend objective is to reach 100 billion ISK by the summer... If a new BPO would be inserted in game do you really think this guy or 1 of the another 1000 very rich players that want to get richer wouldn't buy it just to keep the MONOPOLY of the sales?? Think about it... What would stop them? The owner not selling the BPO? If it got in the hands of another greedy one bye bye cheaper hulks... Reseeding is not the solution and CCP FINALLY seen it.
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Live Eye
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Posted - 2007.02.22 15:18:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Serendib
There will never be more HULK Bpo's to be even more correct forget about the tec 2 BPO. For the ones that wrote on this post and haven't been reading the dev blogs a newsflash for you. !!! END OF LOTTERY SYSTEM, WANT A TEC 2 ITEM GO INVENT IT !!!
Nothing you just said as a statement is even close to an official thing that "will" be happening. Just your opinion worked into a fact in your own mind...
Live Eye
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agel blonde
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Posted - 2007.02.22 15:20:00 -
[30]
I know CCP is allowing supply and demand to control the markets, but surely than can include some script such that if a particular item reached a certain price then some become seeded on the market at a lower price to increase competition and force the market down.
This would have the same effect as releasing more bpos and allow CCP to somewhat stop things on the market from getting out of control |
Lord Dynastron
Mystical Knights
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Posted - 2007.02.22 16:46:00 -
[31]
Originally by: agel blonde
I know CCP is allowing supply and demand to control the markets, but surely than can include some script such that if a particular item reached a certain price then some become seeded on the market at a lower price to increase competition and force the market down.
This would have the same effect as releasing more bpos and allow CCP to somewhat stop things on the market from getting out of control
you know what? That is actually a really good idea! Hulks will soon reach 600 million each,, and that is a little silly. TBH,, I think they are reseeding some Hulks,, well,, some of everything no?
However, these things continue to sell (<--very key issue) as fast as they can be built, so the problem may be lots of people have too much money. Eve needs more isk sinks. Money that does not go from player to player but out of the game comletely. Custom ship colors come to mind.
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Father Weebles
North Face Force
Privateer Alliance
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Posted - 2007.02.22 17:14:00 -
[32]
gg's ccp
way to make sure your customers are happy
pathetic on ccp's part, truly sad they have left this issue to stagnate for so long and only fix it when one of their own gives free t2 bpos to alliance.
/me gives CCP the finger
"Welcome to EVE, where inflation is out of control."
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Cloora
APEX Unlimited
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Posted - 2007.02.22 17:24:00 -
[33]
If I were a Hulk BPO owner I would sell Hulk's for 200 million on purpose.
Because very few people are willing or able to pay 600 million ISK for an Exhumer.
You would make WAAAY more ISK in volume to more people buying them at 200 mil then 600 mil.
The BPO owners do not know how to run a business.
So in response, Cloora should be given a copy of all T2 BPO's as she would use it to better the community of EVE. 
========================================
Production Assistant of APEX Unlimited
I don't want to be forced to Jet Can mine or buy a hauler alt to mine effectivly. BIGGER CARGO HOLDS IN BARGES NOW! |
Montaire
Lacedaemon.
Sparta Alliance
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Posted - 2007.02.22 17:38:00 -
[34]
You dont seem to understand.
I make about 1 hulk per day, and it sells within 1 hour at 500m. At 600m it sells within a day.
You CANT make up for it with volume. Since there is a game-enforced limit to the number that can be produced (About 28 per day right now).
Its impossible to produce more of them. Your claim that BPO owners know nothing about running a business is countered by you knowing nothing about how T2 works in EVE.
Originally by: Cloora
If I were a Hulk BPO owner I would sell Hulk's for 200 million on purpose.
Because very few people are willing or able to pay 600 million ISK for an Exhumer.
You would make WAAAY more ISK in volume to more people buying them at 200 mil then 600 mil.
The BPO owners do not know how to run a business.
So in response, Cloora should be given a copy of all T2 BPO's as she would use it to better the community of EVE.
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Fabrica
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Posted - 2007.02.23 12:00:00 -
[35]
Can someone sell me a Bugatti Veyron for ú100 because i think the ú850,000 price tag on them is a bit steep.
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Xander XacXorien
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Posted - 2007.02.23 12:28:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Fabrica
Can someone sell me a Bugatti Veyron for ú100 because i think the ú850,000 price tag on them is a bit steep.
If the demand was there people would produce the car for less money.
In fact if you notice the base performance of cars is going up everyday.
In the years to come no doubt the car will be seen as less and less of an upgrade. It is the nature of progress.
However, if Bugatti never sold a car due to the price they would go out of business. Hence the price has to be reasonable to those that can afford to pay the money, the cost to produce and the demand.
No account is made of demand because no one can invent a BPO.
No account is made of costs, because it is impossible for a T2 BPO to go out of business, they can only leave the game.
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Kur'Dekaija
Atomic Heroes
The OSS
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Posted - 2007.02.23 12:38:00 -
[37]
well I might get flamed for this but I only see bunch of whiners in this thread on all other "t2 is to expensive" threads.
Its good imo that t2 prices are like this, the one who can afford it gets a sense of eliteness over the other  And their are ways to get cheaper t2 items/ships, just gotta work on what EVE is about, interaction between players.
If you are wondering then NO I don't have a t2 BPO, if I had one then everyone in my corp would be flying carriers by now
I blame the mission runners for the high prices.. if there weren't so much isk in game(they injected it with whoring missions) prices wouldn't be so high.. its way to easy to get isk nowadays.
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Eilene Fernite
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Posted - 2007.02.23 12:49:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Xander XacXorien
Originally by: Fabrica
Can someone sell me a Bugatti Veyron for ú100 because i think the ú850,000 price tag on them is a bit steep.
If the demand was there people would produce the car for less money.
In fact if you notice the base performance of cars is going up everyday.
In the years to come no doubt the car will be seen as less and less of an upgrade. It is the nature of progress.
However, if Bugatti never sold a car due to the price they would go out of business. Hence the price has to be reasonable to those that can afford to pay the money, the cost to produce and the demand.
No account is made of demand because no one can invent a BPO.
No account is made of costs, because it is impossible for a T2 BPO to go out of business, they can only leave the game.
Except there's only a finite number of Veyrons ever produced. Then again, their buildcost is way more than 850k, so it's a wrong analogy on many levels.
On topic. Think a hulk is too expensive? Don't buy it. If enough people follow your example, prices will drop. It really is that simple.
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Auron Shadowbane
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Posted - 2007.02.23 12:51:00 -
[39]
well tbh buying a hulk is like buying these designer label clothes or that super-expensive car:
its for your ego and some minor comforts.
A hulk can maybe tank 0.0 spawn, but a battleship/bc can so with ease and without the risk to loose 700mil+ (ships + gistii), so tbh I see not many people tanking in their hulks.
What they can is:
add another 21% mining yield over the covetor (15% by exhumer 5 and 5% by a 2nd mining upgrade)
have enough capacitor to fire 3 strip IIs at once (a covetor has to cycle those which was going on my nerves realy fast)
have twice the cargo capacity, so you are cool with emptying your cargo every 6 mins (with rigs).
have enough resists and mids for resists to be able to survive a 0.0 spawn long enough for a friendly ratter to kill it or you to dock.
if you calculate it ISK wise the hulk isnt worth its 500mil since you can pay for a 2nd covetor with the 80% more mining 2 covetors would mean over 1 hulk, for the gtc for the 2nd acc.
and finally they have style :).
yeah I would like to see their prices at 100-200mil too (and by god in heaven I'd instantly sell my bpo for 100bil if I'd win one and dont stick to it), but as long as invention isnt boosted & allowed to invent hulks, it wont happen.
and even if we can ivnent hulks it will take many motnhs for the prices to fall as the first 100-200 hulks invented will shurely be sold as expensive as the bpo ones. If not, resellers will do the trick.
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illusionary beauty
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Posted - 2007.02.23 13:02:00 -
[40]
I once talked to someone who owned a Hulk BPO. They said they would give me a discounted one for 450 mil. He said he loses 75 mil selling them to alliance members but he was willing to take the isk loss to help out. I shouldve told him to go **** himself since he still makes tons of money off selling them to alliance members for what a 75 mil discount. pft. Sad thing is if i dont buy it from him for the discount, my only other option is to buy it in empire for max cost and all the ones at max cost are his anyways. So i said screw mining and went back to ratting.
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Xaildaine
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Posted - 2007.02.23 13:09:00 -
[41]
Originally by: illusionary beauty
So i said screw mining and went back to ratting.
And so the mining industry suffers.
Invention of barges is a must... after they make invention woth the time effort and risk.
Along with invention id also like to see another NPC corp other than ORE get into the buisness of makeing some mining barges and ships....
The lack of options in mining is realy sad
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kember
Gallente
Orion Faction
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Posted - 2007.02.23 13:10:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Auron Shadowbane
have enough capacitor to fire 3 strip IIs at once (a covetor has to cycle those which was going on my nerves realy fast)
Eh? I must have some weird uber skills, as my covey keeps all 3 blazing away with no problems.
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ghosttr
Amarr
The Silent Rage
FREGE Alliance
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Posted - 2007.02.23 13:20:00 -
[43]
Hopefully ccp will at least fix the invention so t2 hulk bps can be invented, that should drop down the prices from wtf, to just omg
Looking to join an allaince with 0.0 access where i am allowed to build poses. EVE-Mail me if you have any opportunities. |
Auron Shadowbane
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Posted - 2007.02.23 13:26:00 -
[44]
Originally by: kember
Originally by: Auron Shadowbane
have enough capacitor to fire 3 strip IIs at once (a covetor has to cycle those which was going on my nerves realy fast)
Eh? I must have some weird uber skills, as my covey keeps all 3 blazing away with no problems.
maybe you just use noob crystalls or dont udnerstand me:
a strip mienr II with bistot/ark/crokit t2 crystall takes 175 cap to fire and a covetor has ~300+skills.
shure it can run them, if you leave time, but he cant fire them simultaneous.
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Auron Shadowbane
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Posted - 2007.02.23 13:26:00 -
[45]
Originally by: kember
Originally by: Auron Shadowbane
have enough capacitor to fire 3 strip IIs at once (a covetor has to cycle those which was going on my nerves realy fast)
Eh? I must have some weird uber skills, as my covey keeps all 3 blazing away with no problems.
maybe you just use noob crystalls or dont udnerstand me:
a strip mienr II with bistot/ark/crokit t2 crystall takes 175 cap to fire and a covetor has ~300+skills.
shure it can run them, if you leave time, but he cant fire them simultaneous.
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Auron Shadowbane
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Posted - 2007.02.23 13:26:00 -
[46]
Originally by: kember
Originally by: Auron Shadowbane
have enough capacitor to fire 3 strip IIs at once (a covetor has to cycle those which was going on my nerves realy fast)
Eh? I must have some weird uber skills, as my covey keeps all 3 blazing away with no problems.
maybe you just use noob crystalls or dont udnerstand me:
a strip mienr II with bistot/ark/crokit t2 crystall takes 175 cap to fire and a covetor has ~300+skills.
shure it can run them, if you leave time, but he cant fire them simultaneous.
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Allen Deckard
Gallente
WTB Supplies
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Posted - 2007.02.23 13:39:00 -
[47]
duno personally I believe you have left out 1 very important thing the hulk offers the covetor cant.
It can solo tank any .0 spawn forever without worry.
means if you dont have a second account and nobody is around you can still mine.
Means if you do have a second account you can use it to haul while your mining.
Means if someone or couple others come to mine with you they can be using covetors or whatever to mine without worrying about tanking.
Anyway just a note.
OH and one other thing.
IF you saw 20 hulks on the market tommarrow for 100mil each AND had the isk. Would you leave them on the market? Or would you scarf them up knowing for a fact that you could sell them in the next week for 550mil.
Just currious. Personally I aint stupid and would scarf them up.
I think the price of trit is overpriced atm. so why dont all you put ur trit on the market at 1.5 like it used to be ur makin 2x the profit I did when I mined alot it gouging I say.
One last note.
A good portion of t2 bpo owners didnt win their bpo's they bought them. They paid a price that typically takes near 2 years for the bpo to pay for itself. To just take the bpo's away from them aint all that fair. No more than if ccp decided that nobody should have more than 1 ship and just took everyones.
Kentucky where the goats roam and the rednecks run free |
Allen Deckard
Gallente
WTB Supplies
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Posted - 2007.02.23 13:39:00 -
[48]
duno personally I believe you have left out 1 very important thing the hulk offers the covetor cant.
It can solo tank any .0 spawn forever without worry.
means if you dont have a second account and nobody is around you can still mine.
Means if you do have a second account you can use it to haul while your mining.
Means if someone or couple others come to mine with you they can be using covetors or whatever to mine without worrying about tanking.
Anyway just a note.
OH and one other thing.
IF you saw 20 hulks on the market tommarrow for 100mil each AND had the isk. Would you leave them on the market? Or would you scarf them up knowing for a fact that you could sell them in the next week for 550mil.
Just currious. Personally I aint stupid and would scarf them up.
I think the price of trit is overpriced atm. so why dont all you put ur trit on the market at 1.5 like it used to be ur makin 2x the profit I did when I mined alot it gouging I say.
One last note.
A good portion of t2 bpo owners didnt win their bpo's they bought them. They paid a price that typically takes near 2 years for the bpo to pay for itself. To just take the bpo's away from them aint all that fair. No more than if ccp decided that nobody should have more than 1 ship and just took everyones.
Kentucky where the goats roam and the rednecks run free |
Allen Deckard
Gallente
WTB Supplies
|
Posted - 2007.02.23 13:39:00 -
[49]
duno personally I believe you have left out 1 very important thing the hulk offers the covetor cant.
It can solo tank any .0 spawn forever without worry.
means if you dont have a second account and nobody is around you can still mine.
Means if you do have a second account you can use it to haul while your mining.
Means if someone or couple others come to mine with you they can be using covetors or whatever to mine without worrying about tanking.
Anyway just a note.
OH and one other thing.
IF you saw 20 hulks on the market tommarrow for 100mil each AND had the isk. Would you leave them on the market? Or would you scarf them up knowing for a fact that you could sell them in the next week for 550mil.
Just currious. Personally I aint stupid and would scarf them up.
I think the price of trit is overpriced atm. so why dont all you put ur trit on the market at 1.5 like it used to be ur makin 2x the profit I did when I mined alot it gouging I say.
One last note.
A good portion of t2 bpo owners didnt win their bpo's they bought them. They paid a price that typically takes near 2 years for the bpo to pay for itself. To just take the bpo's away from them aint all that fair. No more than if ccp decided that nobody should have more than 1 ship and just took everyones.
Kentucky where the goats roam and the rednecks run free |
Caligulus
Caldari
Eve University
Ivy League
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Posted - 2007.02.23 13:45:00 -
[50]
Originally by: Cloora
If I were a Hulk BPO owner I would sell Hulk's for 200 million on purpose.
Because very few people are willing or able to pay 600 million ISK for an Exhumer.
You would make WAAAY more ISK in volume to more people buying them at 200 mil then 600 mil.
The BPO owners do not know how to run a business.
So in response, Cloora should be given a copy of all T2 BPO's as she would use it to better the community of EVE.
Volume is indeed the punch line. You can't produce any more than 1/22 hours. End of story. Your volume is a flat rate. Therefor you can't sell it at 200mill and make up the difference in volume. ...and why the frack would you when people will buy the same ship at 500+ mill??
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Caligulus
Caldari
Eve University
Ivy League
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Posted - 2007.02.23 13:45:00 -
[51]
Originally by: Cloora
If I were a Hulk BPO owner I would sell Hulk's for 200 million on purpose.
Because very few people are willing or able to pay 600 million ISK for an Exhumer.
You would make WAAAY more ISK in volume to more people buying them at 200 mil then 600 mil.
The BPO owners do not know how to run a business.
So in response, Cloora should be given a copy of all T2 BPO's as she would use it to better the community of EVE.
Volume is indeed the punch line. You can't produce any more than 1/22 hours. End of story. Your volume is a flat rate. Therefor you can't sell it at 200mill and make up the difference in volume. ...and why the frack would you when people will buy the same ship at 500+ mill??
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Sergio Ling
Dark Centuri Inc.
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Posted - 2007.02.23 14:11:00 -
[52]
Originally by: XGP Darkside
To be perfectly honest i think i could run customer relations for CCP better than they do currently and im a 17 year old school drop-out.
In which case I recommend you set up your own company and amaze us with your well-rounded business ideas. OR of course, GTFO
_
Your sig is pwn - Eris
*snip* This is a english speeking forum, for moderation perposes - hutch |
Kolwrath
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Posted - 2007.02.23 21:52:00 -
[53]
Back on topic:
So I take it you can't invent hulks at the moment? anyone care to explain why not? (I dont know much about invention at all but I thought that all t2 was inventable)
from reading the thread, my guess is the reason hulks are so expensive is the high demand and slow slow manf time. Coulden't CCP just halve the manf time or something? (thus doubling the amount available in game in one fell swoop?)
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Auron Shadowbane
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Posted - 2007.02.23 22:12:00 -
[54]
Originally by: Allen Deckard
duno personally I believe you have left out 1 very important thing the hulk offers the covetor cant.
It can solo tank any .0 spawn forever without worry.
try sanhsa/blood raider and then come back and tell us how you tanked tripple 1.8mil spawns :P.
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Nymos
Fimbulvintr
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Posted - 2007.02.23 22:19:00 -
[55]
if rich ppl buy them... and the hulk is every new miner's wet dream so they sell at such a price.
are they that much better than a covetor? i mean really worth 600m more? so if you have a tank in that belt the covetor can mine just fine. at a fraction of the costs.
--
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Cloora
APEX Unlimited
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Posted - 2007.02.23 23:09:00 -
[56]
Originally by: Montaire
You dont seem to understand.
I make about 1 hulk per day, and it sells within 1 hour at 500m. At 600m it sells within a day.
You CANT make up for it with volume. Since there is a game-enforced limit to the number that can be produced (About 28 per day right now).
Its impossible to produce more of them. Your claim that BPO owners know nothing about running a business is countered by you knowing nothing about how T2 works in EVE.
Originally by: Cloora
If I were a Hulk BPO owner I would sell Hulk's for 200 million on purpose.
Because very few people are willing or able to pay 600 million ISK for an Exhumer.
You would make WAAAY more ISK in volume to more people buying them at 200 mil then 600 mil.
The BPO owners do not know how to run a business.
So in response, Cloora should be given a copy of all T2 BPO's as she would use it to better the community of EVE.
I'm sorry I thought the smiley would show I was joking. Looks like I have to put the j/k there instead. 
========================================
Production Assistant of APEX Unlimited
I don't want to be forced to Jet Can mine or buy a hauler alt to mine effectivly. BIGGER CARGO HOLDS IN BARGES NOW! |
Ky Vatta
Caldari
Empire Mining and Industrial Taskforce
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Posted - 2007.02.24 00:35:00 -
[57]
Originally by: kember
Originally by: Auron Shadowbane
have enough capacitor to fire 3 strip IIs at once (a covetor has to cycle those which was going on my nerves realy fast)
Eh? I must have some weird uber skills, as my covey keeps all 3 blazing away with no problems.
Using tech 2 crystals, I don`t have problems running 3 Strip-miner IIs either...methinks he has less skills trained up... (capacitor skills, lol)
---
CEO |
Ce Domina
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Posted - 2007.02.24 00:46:00 -
[58]
Edited by: Ce Domina on 24/02/2007 00:42:56
The reason people sell Hulks for 600 mil is because they'll sell at that price. It's just the market at work.
CCP said they're going to revamp T2 production, so you may as well just wait and see what happens, starting 'Complaining about T2 BPOs Thread #109583' isn't going to make it happen any faster, and its not going to lower the price of Hulks. |
Siriyana
Astrum Contract Services Group
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Posted - 2007.02.24 00:48:00 -
[59]
It's called supply and demand, folks. If nobody was willing to pay the market price for the ship, then the price would drop. The CovOps cloak suffers from the same thing- incredibly high demand, and so the prices they are sold at have skyrocketed.
Learn how to use things like this to your advantage to make money. Do market control in a smaller market with plenty of T2 items to sell- buy at a good price, sell for a few M higher, turn a profit.
If people were less willing to blow 600m on a mining barge, then the prices would be lower...
-----
CEO, Astrum Contract Services Group
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Frieswithyourmilkshake
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Posted - 2007.02.24 00:59:00 -
[60]
Meh you brought this all on yourselves. You all whined about a broken t2 system. CPP responded and introduced invention. Now you continue to whine and ask CCP to remove all T2 bpos.
Whats my reponse as a T2 bpo owner?
I'm going to use these last weeks to grief as much ******* isk as i possibly can from you ***** whiny bears 
I'm gonna be laughing my **** off when the T2 market self destructs, and hulk/hac prices are higher in 6 months time than they are now.
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Kazuo Ishiguro
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Posted - 2007.02.24 01:10:00 -
[61]
I agree with Ce Domina. In EVE, prices are extremely arbitrary, a kind of shared hallucination. As long as there are enough people who accept that a Hulk is worth 500,000,000 isk, prices will inflate to match the limits of their expectations. There are plenty of people who will venture their capital to cause this hallucination to persist, and at the moment the risk to them is tiny because the production of these ships is so limited and there is a market of determined buyers. There is nothing surprising about what has happened.
------
Top speed calculation spreadsheet - feedback welcome :) |
Necronomicon
Caldari
KIA Corp
KIA Alliance
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Posted - 2007.02.24 01:27:00 -
[62]
Frieswithyourmilkshake - Post with your main....troll.
Hulks cannot be invented, hence the BPO Owners have seen their wildest dreams come true, and you are all paying for it.
CCP need to fix this as Elite barges are one of the very few (if not the only) T2 ships that cannot be invented, can we only assume a CCP/Alliance handholding conspiracy on this?
Carlsberg dont make Eve Pilots, but if they did, i wouldnt be one of them.
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Siriyana
Astrum Contract Services Group
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Posted - 2007.02.24 01:46:00 -
[63]
Prices will be insane if there are no T2 BPOs and only BPCs. There won't be any more ME/PE research, and so forth. It would be fairly tragic. I guess I'm gonna buy all my T2 gear now while I can get it for cheap...
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CEO, Astrum Contract Services Group
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Siriyana
Astrum Contract Services Group
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Posted - 2007.02.24 01:46:00 -
[64]
Prices will be insane if there are no T2 BPOs and only BPCs. There won't be any more ME/PE research, and so forth. It would be fairly tragic. I guess I'm gonna buy all my T2 gear now while I can get it for cheap...
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CEO, Astrum Contract Services Group
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Xaildaine
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Posted - 2007.02.24 03:50:00 -
[65]
Edited by: Xaildaine on 24/02/2007 03:49:59
Originally by: Frieswithyourmilkshake
Meh you brought this all on yourselves. You all whined about a broken t2 system. CPP responded and introduced invention. Now you continue to whine and ask CCP to remove all T2 bpos.
If invention was working then there would be no need for T2 bpos and the massive profit hording potential that some of them have.
Plus the idea to remove the existing BPOs is in responce to CCP wanting to kill the lotto thus removing the chance of any new bpos coming into the picture.
With no new BPOs comming in .. how long do you think it would be till all T2 bpo were in the hands of the Massive Alliance leaders... not long
Originally by: Frieswithyourmilkshake
Whats my reponse as a T2 bpo owner?
I'm going to use these last weeks to grief as much ******* isk as i possibly can from you ***** whiny bears
This is somthing new?
I figured most high income bpo owners were already bending us "Bears" over a barrel.
And hang on one seccond... If your a Hulk BPO owner ... isnt siting in Jita squirting out Hulks 24/7 basicly being a station jocky?
Whats more "bearish" than that... all reward no risk...
Originally by: Frieswithyourmilkshake
I'm gonna be laughing my **** off when the T2 market self destructs, and hulk/hac prices are higher in 6 months time than they are now.
Cant see it..
lets say 20 ppl can build Hulks atm .. they have set their price.. thats is as far as a the "Market forces" they experiance.
thus we have 600 mill Hulks
now if 200 ppl could build Hulks .. as with invention ... then Suply and demand comes into the picture.
Guess how many Hulks your gona sell for 600 mill if the other 199 are will sell for 500 mill.
I guess you all missed what happend with the CPR II market after invention (pre CCP panic nerf) started working.
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Verite Rendition
Caldari
AUS Corporation
CORE.
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Posted - 2007.02.24 04:45:00 -
[66]
Originally by: Montaire
You dont seem to understand.
I make about 1 hulk per day, and it sells within 1 hour at 500m. At 600m it sells within a day.
You CANT make up for it with volume. Since there is a game-enforced limit to the number that can be produced (About 28 per day right now).
Its impossible to produce more of them. Your claim that BPO owners know nothing about running a business is countered by you knowing nothing about how T2 works in EVE.
There is a way. How many people are using T2 ship assembly arrays to build them with? If all the Hulk BPOs are made out of assembly arrays, that's 33% more(roughly another 9) that can be made & sold per day.
----
AUS Corp
Lead Megalomanic |
Revolution Rising
Minmatar
Paxton Industries
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Posted - 2007.02.24 05:03:00 -
[67]
Ishtar = same problem.
RR.
--
Paxton Industries.
"I'm mostly a miner, but in your case I'll make an exception." |
Father Weebles
North Face Force
Privateer Alliance
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Posted - 2007.02.24 05:20:00 -
[68]
Originally by: Frieswithyourmilkshake
Meh you brought this all on yourselves. You all whined about a broken t2 system. CPP responded and introduced invention. Now you continue to whine and ask CCP to remove all T2 bpos.
People continue to whine because ccp ****** up invention and ****** up t2 idiot.
"Welcome to EVE, where inflation is out of control."
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Xaildaine
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Posted - 2007.02.24 10:43:00 -
[69]
Originally by: XGP Darkside
i know a hulk BPO owner myself and i know that he has personal goals.. such as obtaining 100billion isk by summer.
100 BILLION ... in empire.. on an alt with probly less then 3 months training... Never having to leave a station...
Broken beyond broken
Originally by: XGP Darkside
Hulk prices rise for owners personal benifit.
Hulk prices rise too high and people stop buying them.
Seller relises this is an issue.
Seller reduces prices and stock sells like hot-cakes.
No
The price goes up past what the bulk of miners are willing to spend and stays there.
Id say any Hulk BPO owner can and will weather any storm with the amount of isk he has already built up already.
So he sells a few less ships for a few weeks till some other Uber rich Plex farmer comes and buys the lot.
Nearing 100 billion isk the market nolonger applys to ppl like this.
They have no idea what an isk is realy worth... out of touch.. much like the plex farmer
To much wealth in one place
Originally by: XGP Darkside
but this doesnt happen in eve.. as we can see with the price of the Cerberus class heavy assault ship, this ship is currently sold for anything between 200mil and 250mil.. this ship is most certainly one of the most wanted in eve but because the BPOs are so few and the owners become greedy they just arnt worth the isk.
Yes this is true.. but the profits are so large and the stockpiles of it already so massive that any dip in sales will go un-noticed so no price drop.
The only answer to T2 production is Invention or seeding the BPOs on the market.
I would rather have invention.
Put the Power of T2 in the hands of the moon miners .. not fat station jockys who wana make 100 billion with out ever leaveing Jita
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Lara Hellfire
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Posted - 2007.02.24 11:40:00 -
[70]
I laugh every time i see a thread like this. Laugh. Out loid and till I puke. Why? What is the point? You want to have some control of Hulk BPO'and guilt the owners or CCP into saying "Wow what have we been doing? How stupid are we, lets make the Hulk and the Cerberus worth 40 million so everyone can have one and be happy". Is that the aim, it seems to sound like it from some of the posts I have read in here.
If I had a T2 BPO, particularly a Hulk BPO, I would go on a bender that would make my liver eject through my stomach. I would make as much profit as I could, for as long as I could. Why? Because I COULD
T2 BPO owners have been fortunate enough to gain THE most sought after items in the game through a flawed system. Good on em, I wasn;t lucky enough, and I will battle on with missions and mining and PvP until I reach the endstate of the game. But to those lads and lasses who have had the luck and good fortune to get a sought after T2 BPO. Go Nuts and make what you can, cos I would.
To those that dont have one, the ONLY option you have to try and make a difference, is to NOT buy any T2 ships or components. Vote with your wallet and dont buy anything. You can solo Lvl 4 missions in a T1 BS, and you can PVP in the same. If it bothers you so much, personally veto it. Me? I will continue to buy T2 stuff cos it rocks. It's a game, and If I have to spend 100 game hours doing whatever to own a Hulk (because I really want one) then thats what I will do.
Let me caveat that by saying that neither myself or any of my altsm corps or closest friends in game own a T2 BPO, or BPC. Yes it is a license to print ISK. Good luck to the lucky bastards that have them.
Peace
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