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What's Happened To The Eve So Many Of Us Remember?

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Verone Veto. Veto Corp	Posted - 2007.02.22 17:02:00 - [1] The forums have always been the center of controversy in Eve, alliances duking it out with their PR and propoganda, people throwing insults at eachother and everyone generally getting eachother's backs up. It's all a pleasure to read, especially when people throw their weight and ingame egos around for a bit of fun, and to make the game that much more humerous to be a part of. I've watched these forums for years now, seen alliances rise and fall, seen corporations born and flattened, and watched a thousand names and corporate entities come and go. I've never wanted to be a part of the whole "We're better than you, ner ner" style gameplay, I play for fun, as do my corp, not to prove anything, or try to be the best. Which brings me to my point. Veto Corp have recently returned to the north, Lonetrek being my spiritual home in Eve where I grew up pirating after a short stint in Essence where I started. But for a number of reasons it's not the same. Some great fights have been had with Celestial Apocaylpse and Outbreak so far, I thank these two corps for some kick ass fun over the last couple of weeks, we've made new friends and enemies up here already, but there is a sad overtone to the whole game at present, given the behaviour of most of the larger powers that reside here. Over the last two weeks we've seen two particular alliances log in trapping ourselves and others in Obe, P3EN-E, and M-OEE8, then today another alliance had a gang invite spamming our members during an engagement in M-OEE8. It's disheartening, watching Eve degenorate into a game where people need to run borderline exploit tactics to even score a kill, and one begs to ask the question, where has the Eve gone that so many of us remember from long ago, the Eve that we enjoyed and felt a part of before all this crap started to be used to score kills? Coming from a guy who has never before questioned the position of CCP, or their dedication to the continued survival of te game, I have to say that Eve is in a sad state of affairs at present, and something needs to be done to curb the use of tactics like Logging in, Logging out, Invite spamming, and agression timer abuse in future. Personally I can't possibly see how any of these tactics are either legitimate, or not easily tracked by the GM team. Oveur, Hellmar, TomB and the rest of you, you've made a ***ing game, a real unique piece of work that captivates tens of thousands into playing together in the most rich and immersive virtual world available, but the inconsistency and lapses in upholding the EULA is starting to HEAVILY effect gameplay for a lot of people. Sort it out guys because myself, like another 150,000 people who spend their time in Eve need consistency in your descisions. NEWEST MOVIE : VETO FOR HIRE**
Evelyn Lavi Independent Fleet O X I D E	Posted - 2007.02.22 17:08:00 - [2] Metagaming has mutated from exploit to "legitimate" tactics, cloaked in immersion-blurring explanations (such as the node crash in the recent EVE news being called a "spatial distortion caused by so many ships jumping in") and more often, silence from the developers. For what it's worth, I wholeheartedly agree with the OP. Login traps, logoffsky, log-OFF traps (passive targeter sploits) and more have made the game a lot less fun of late.
Valan	Posted - 2007.02.22 17:09:00 - [3] Because an EVE player used to be a certain type of person. popularity and marketing menas more players. Unfortunately that means more w***ers. We were being smack talked in a station a couple of weeks ago by a guy who bought his account. I'm damn sure it wasn't bought on the forums. I may petition next time. It'll save everyone elses eyes from reading the purile drivel in local. /start sig I love old characters that post 'I've beeen playing the game three years' when I know their account has been sold on. /end sig
Arcticblue2 Gallente Nordic Freelancers inc	Posted - 2007.02.22 17:09:00 - [4] Well vote with what you got... I know I did... and to those who flamed my previous post do lock, this is the answer. "Subscription Status: Active Cancellation Pending Expires: 02.March.2007 Total Charges Made: 26" See... 2nd of march you no longer will see me in the game, I have voted with my wallet, I wish there where more. I would and will come back once I see my vote is heard. ---------------------------------------------- "When I was a child, I spoke as a child, I felt as a child, I thought as a child: now that I am become a man, I have put away childish things." 1 cor.
Nero Scuro Caldari Jejaikaro Corporation	Posted - 2007.02.22 17:09:00 - [5] It's inevitable when you start to reach a bloated playerbase. Reputation based consequence takes a dive. It has nothing to do with who the players are or what they're doing, when you get too many of them together they act like jackasses. ___ "have u seen my employ history? u better go as i have more friends in thisgame then in my real life"
Zhaine Coreli Corporation Corelum Syndicate	Posted - 2007.02.22 17:09:00 - [6] /semi signed I don't know if I've just become more aware of it or whether it's actually getting worse but I'm pretty dissapointed in the community, (mainly) on the forums and (also) in game. Some of the issues should be sorted by CCP, and some of them are out of their control. . . - - - - - - - - - - http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=473471
maarud Coreli Corporation Corelum Syndicate	Posted - 2007.02.22 17:11:00 - [7] Spamming convo's and gang invites is a exploit, petition it and get the scum banned, the less the better. Maarud. Proudly a Ex-BYDI member
Balklanac Wise Guys	Posted - 2007.02.22 17:12:00 - [8] Loggin in and loggin off need a better solution than the current crapola. --------- I would love to see a bounty pilot get some friend or an alt to pod them to collect the isk if that resulted in a two week delay before their 'personality' was uploaded to a new clone.
Death Kill Caldari direkte	Posted - 2007.02.22 17:12:00 - [9] Edited by: Death Kill on 22/02/2007 17:09:29 Originally by: Verone I love typing rubbish Tux+stacking nerf. we want pvp to last longer so we nerf damage and increase hitpoints....simple see?
Evelyn Lavi Independent Fleet O X I D E	Posted - 2007.02.22 17:13:00 - [10] Pretty much all the major alliances depend on one of these "tactics" or another, and CCP better fix it's leaky boat, or EVE may wind up like the (once believed to be "unhackable) Diablo 2: a battle of which script kiddie has the best 'sploitz.
Ion Flux No Quarter. C0VEN	Posted - 2007.02.22 17:27:00 - [11] Greets Veto/Verone Make sure you are seeing the whole picture here you are talking about a Empire Border system m-o sure we like to camp it ...sure we got ya good one time...why?...maybe luck well you had Bigger Ships then us, LOL we have empire war on...2 jumps away is our empire fleet sitting in empire you know whats gonna happen now.....MC/Toxin did it to us...they bait us with small group...have the heavy hitters 2 jmps out....and when u go fer the bait.....well we know what happens....as far as NoQ is concerned we will not log off- we wont log in...want a fair fight ..bring it ...cheers Ion
Horza Otho Minmatar Infortunatus Eventus	Posted - 2007.02.22 17:30:00 - [12] I wholeheartedly agree with what you've typed. Eve is no doubt going down hill, and its happening fast. Recent scandles that shall remain nameless, the exploits that go unseen by a dev/GM eye. They all effect the communities desire to play this game. I have even thought to myself for a while now, 'when is this game going to end?'. --- Eris Discordia is miiiiiine uhhh, you sure? -Eris ofc i am pets voodoo eris doll
Okkie2	Posted - 2007.02.22 17:31:00 - [13] Edited by: Okkie2 on 22/02/2007 17:28:38 CCP should start warning/banning grievers instead of protecting them by telling it's all game mechanics. And yes, empire shouldn't be 100% safe, corp thieving should be possible, but people who are abusing game mechanics (freeform contracts, the gang-war kills, spamming gang invites during battles etc. log-on traps, agression timer abuse etc.) should get a warning and eventually be banned. Furthermore, POS-bugs and node crashes must be handled better and should not -like it's now- be used as viable tactics.
Bazuka	Posted - 2007.02.22 17:33:00 - [14] The answer allways is : Dont take the game too seriously , become a casual player and laugh at people that go mouth foaming about an online game. If you follow that advice EVE or any online game will become so much more enjoyable. Ever since I cut down my playtime to 2-3 hours a day I`m having a blast playing the game ( at home ) and reading the forums ( from work ) . You can have your alliances , corps , wars and whatever.... and stuff it.
Montague Zooma Imperial Dreams Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2007.02.22 17:37:00 - [15] Crap flows downhill. Sure, every MMO has its metagamers and cheaters, but Eve is apparently unique in that its developers promote such behavior. The devs have set a very bad example (OK, one that we know of for sure...but is that an isolated case or the result of the overall dev culture here?). It's become a "win no matter what" kind of game. The "screw you" mentality pervades the galaxy. Why should subscribers play "fair" when even the devs cheat? Quote: Coming from a guy who has never before questioned the position of CCP, or their dedication to the continued survival of the game... Welcome to reality, Verone. In God we trust. All others need their own special GM to watch over them.
Haniblecter Teg F.R.E.E. Explorer EVE Animal Control	Posted - 2007.02.22 17:39:00 - [16] What's happened is lame trigger-happy merc corps are geying up EVE. Act accordingly. ---------------------------------------- Friends Forever
Azerrad InExile	Posted - 2007.02.22 17:47:00 - [17] If you can't catch them with a logged-in blob, then catch them with a logged-out/login trap blob. Brilliant! Even ignoring the meta-gaming borderline exploits, this game has become way to focused on blob tactics for my liking. Its nearly impossible to get a fight that is X3 vs X. t20: "So Let us play and enjoy the game you and I both love on the same level."*
Zizoo No Quarter. C0VEN	Posted - 2007.02.22 17:53:00 - [18] That sucks, I know ive seen you guys a bunch up here. So far ive enjoyed the fights. Name, names! Anyway we all hate these panzy tactics. We dont support them and dont use them. cheers
Name Lips	Posted - 2007.02.22 17:56:00 - [19] You're suffering from nostalgia. Things change. Sometimes for the better, sometimes for the worse. It's inevitable. You can bet you'll be hearing the same thing in a few years from those, like me, who just joined and are really liking the game as it is right now.
Major Stormer Caldari Celestial Apocalypse Insurgency	Posted - 2007.02.22 17:57:00 - [20] Some of these responses make me wonder why people bother posting in the first place. Verone, first, your welcome, second, totally agreed. Mabye with all these people who are "outraged" and "cancalling" do, then mabye it will improve. However, CCP need to improve with the points you mentioned.
Jerick Ludhowe Internet Tough Guys Inc.	Posted - 2007.02.22 17:57:00 - [21] Originally by: Azerrad InExile If you can't catch them with a logged-in blob, then catch them with a logged-out/login trap blob. Brilliant! Even ignoring the meta-gaming borderline exploits, this game has become way to focused on blob tactics for my liking. Its nearly impossible to get a fight that is X3 vs X. Pretty much hit the nail on the head. The problem comes when we try and figure out a way to make splitting up forces more effective. Currently it's extremely easy to jump a couple people with a couple ships and get them to engage then have 10 of your buddies jump through the gate and warp into the fight. Sadly people don't give a rats ass about a good fight, it's all about being on a killmail so that their e-peen can grow another couple mm. I love this game to the point where I've been trying to get almost all of my RL friends to subscribe and give it a try. However as of late I'm finding that the game is just not what it use to be. There are just too many unimersive aspects to the game such as rigs and pos's. Secondly the player base has just gone down hill. A year ago people I died to or killed would be willing to have a good chat about the fight after the fact. Now I find myself being smacked for stupid ass reasons such as "ecm drone noob, ect" or "lawl we pwned you 10v1". As of this momment my subscription will run out march 1st and I'm not sure if I will ever come back sadly. Hopefully I'll change my mind but I really would like to see some improvments to existing problems rather than adding new overpowered FOTM content. Heinrich Klaus: "You need to get a leet signature you***got"
Eldar Curunirr	Posted - 2007.02.22 18:06:00 - [22] Originally by: Verone Eve that we enjoyed and felt a part of before all this crap started to be used to score kills? I /sign or whatever everyone uses these days on the forums, your entire post verone. I think the problem is, it's only the people who have played for a very very long time, understand what people are missing. I stopped playing for a year and a half, and came back to a vastly different player base, and player mentality. I hear all these references to 'meta-gaming' I have no idea what it means. I hear log-on/log-off tactics are use regularly now, before I left the game, people were named and shamed constantly for logging on, or logging off. Now it seems to have become an accepted part of gameplay, I've heard people brag about beating someone because of log on tactics. But I think the above I quoted says it all. I for one, have always been against kill-boards. Let your guns do the talking, not your kill-boards. The kill-mails have always seemed to me to be a notch on the belt, not a bragging tool for out of corp/alliance masses. Eldar
Copenhagen JuBa Corp Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2007.02.22 18:06:00 - [23] Originally by: Verone Coming from a guy who has never before questioned the position of CCP, or their dedication to the continued survival of te game, I have to say that Eve is in a sad state of affairs at present, and something needs to be done to curb the use of tactics like Logging in, Logging out, Invite spamming, and agression timer abuse in future. Personally I can't possibly see how any of these tactics are either legitimate, or not easily tracked by the GM team. Oveur, Hellmar, TomB and the rest of you, you've made a *****ing game, a real unique piece of work that captivates tens of thousands into playing together in the most rich and immersive virtual world available, but the inconsistency and lapses in upholding the EULA is starting to HEAVILY effect gameplay for a lot of people. Sort it out guys because myself, like another 150,000 people who spend their time in Eve need consistency in your descisions. Verone I totally agree with you. This certainly isnt the game that it used to be. Dont get me wrong I love this game. But there is no honor anymore. People are so afraid of losing a fake ship/item/whatever that they are willing to do things that they would never do in real life, or at least I hope they wouldnt. The 3 worst aspects of EVE as I see it are: 1 - POS Warfare - I wish they never existed. They truly take the fun out of this GAME. They have been bugged to some extent since the day they came into EVE. The folks that manage them dont like it, the people defending them dont like it, and the people having to shoot them dont like it. 2 - T2 Lottery - the rich get richer and us poor shmucks have to bend over and take it. Put every BPO in the game on the NPC market. Make them super expensive if you want. This will allow even the smallest corps something to work for. 3 - GM Inconsistency - hey they are human also, but OMG its like talking to Dell tech support. They either respond from a script or use a WIJI board to come up with a answer. Make a set of rules and follow them for everybody everytime!! CCP really needs to get a handle on things now. Its starting to spiral out of control. They will end up losing a lot of us old timers. We will be replaced with people that wont stick around for years and years like we did.
Jim McGregor	Posted - 2007.02.22 18:11:00 - [24] What happened is that the Eve playerbase grew to double and triple its original size, and with that comes a lot of consequences, some of which are not so good. A lot of players today dont hesitate to use cheap tricks to win. They dont see anything wrong with it and its so easy to do. Everything thats possible today, like spamming invites etc, has always been possible since Eve started. Its the players that have changed. I hope ccp manages to sort the "good" whine from the "bad", because some things are important to fix while others can safely be ignored since its just people whining because they are tired of Eve itself and want the game to be something its not. The OP is one of the good constructive ones. I hope its listened to. --- Eve Wiki \| Eve Tribune
000Hunter000 Gallente Magners Marauders	Posted - 2007.02.22 18:14:00 - [25] I know it's kinda sad and may make me sound like an old grumpy fart but i liked the game a lot more 2 years ago and with a lot less players... it made eve feel huge and u could actually travel to systems where nobody else would come in days/weeks even. Now everywhere u go there are ****ers, gankers and griefers... Anyways as always i will (try to) adapt, but with every asshat change ccp tries to shove down our throats i find it harder to do. (so no, u cannot have my stuff just yet ) Resized tag... again... hope this pleases the tag ninjas from ccp... again :p
Humpalot	Posted - 2007.02.22 18:18:00 - [26] I can't speak for anyone else but I for one wouldn't mind it if CCP put everything (bug fixes, new content, balancing, etc.) on hold for a month or two and devoted ALL their resources (or as much as is practical) to policing the game. Have every Dev, every GM, Marketing, HR, their lawyers and the receptionist deal with exploit petitions. Hire more people on a temporary basis if necessary. Make it it clear that logoffski and other such tactics are a no go. Crashes happen and whatnot. But surely they would be able to discern a pattern in people's play and if that pattern starts to fit such boderline exploits then they get hit with an escalating system of warnings. Get a warning, a more serious warning, a three day ban, a two week ban, a perma ban if your play consistently shows such borderline tactics. Ok, so some of the above is written over-the-top a bit but in general I am serious. Whether CCP uses existing resources or hires more (either temp or permanent I don't care) they need to put more police on the street as it were. Send a loud and clear message that players are expected to play within the spirit of the game. After a month or two of cleaning out the riff-raff they can probably ease up some and get back to new content and all the rest but best to fix what is here and now first. Just my 0.02 ISK P.S. Not to hijack this Verone but did you ever put out a follow-up to your excellent Episode_I video? Seemed there were to be follow-ups and have been looking forward to it.
Le Pecarosh	Posted - 2007.02.22 18:22:00 - [27] More and more people are playing to "win EVE", instead of "having fun".
Hellspawn01 Amarr Falcon Advanced Industries	Posted - 2007.02.22 18:25:00 - [28] Afaik convo/invite spamming is not allowed. If they continue to do this wiht alts, petition them. Ship lovers click here
000Hunter000 Gallente Magners Marauders	Posted - 2007.02.22 18:32:00 - [29] Originally by: Le Pecarosh More and more people are playing to "win EVE", instead of "having fun". sadly... /signed Resized tag... again... hope this pleases the tag ninjas from ccp... again :p
Galk Gallente Autumn Tactics All the things she said	Posted - 2007.02.22 18:37:00 - [30] Edited by: Galk on 22/02/2007 18:34:37 Originally by: Humpalot Send a loud and clear message that players are expected to play within the spirit of the game. CCP would 'never' issue such a definite statement that held any meaning what so ever. They wouldn't care to alienate any section of a playerbase for a starters, it normaly spells doom, or the start of it. And from a point of view, it's practically imposable to do so anyway without being totaly hypocritical, given they promote metagaming in the form of gtc/isk sales and multiple character accounts. Somebody said it... it's win at all costs... Don't think for a single minute that ccp will stand in the way of that... Thats where your games gone. ______

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