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Oveur... do we (the ones without T2 BPOs, ) errr gonna need vasaline?

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Jennifer Meek Gallente Planck Bubble Generation Technologies	Posted - 2007.02.24 00:58:00 - [91] Originally by: Xander XacXorien I would say the maximum is closer to 10+ billion a day for a good T2 BPO. Given research it could be a lot higher. Work it out for a Hulk, I dont know the exact figures but the production cost is something less than 50 million but sells for 550 million plus. I read somewhere you can manufacture 24 a day. 24 x 500 = 12 billion a day. That's a potential of 360 billion a month. Research the BPO and you get better production. L O L Hulk BPO is 3 billion a week more or less. ---
Frieswithyourmilkshake	Posted - 2007.02.24 01:08:00 - [92] Originally by: Jennifer Meek Originally by: Xander XacXorien I would say the maximum is closer to 10+ billion a day for a good T2 BPO. Given research it could be a lot higher. Work it out for a Hulk, I dont know the exact figures but the production cost is something less than 50 million but sells for 550 million plus. I read somewhere you can manufacture 24 a day. 24 x 500 = 12 billion a day. That's a potential of 360 billion a month. Research the BPO and you get better production. L O L Hulk BPO is 3 billion a week more or less. Please provide proof of this amazing 360b isk per month generating T2 bpo or STFU and GTFO
Aramendel Amarr Queens of the Stone Age Anarchy Empire	Posted - 2007.02.24 01:24:00 - [93] Originally by: Jennifer Meek Originally by: Fakespace Pretty much everyone that is saying to NOT remove T2 bpos, own a t2 bpo... Pretty much everyone that is saying to remove T2 bpos, doesnt own a t2 bpo... What's your point? Well, there are only 2 possible options - either a person argues for a point because of egoistic motives or because it thinks from a neutral viewpoint that it would be best for the game. If "egoistic motives" are the reason for the vast majority it applies to both sides - unless you have an explanation how being lucky (or having multiple research farm accounts) if making one less selfish. So basically almost everyone who argues for BPOs does because he is greedy and almost everyone who argues against them is jealous. In which case any discussion is pretty pointless because almost everyone argues for his own wallet and not for the game and the few neutral people have no impact. Or we have a noticeable amount of people who manage to remain neutral and say what they think it's best. If that is the case and if people would think that BPOs are good we would see almost noone from the BPO holders arguing against BPOs and a very sizeable part of the non BPO holders arguing for BPOs. My impression however is more of the opposite.
Xander XacXorien	Posted - 2007.02.24 01:59:00 - [94] Originally by: Frieswithyourmilkshake Originally by: Jennifer Meek Originally by: Xander XacXorien I would say the maximum is closer to 10+ billion a day for a good T2 BPO. Given research it could be a lot higher. Work it out for a Hulk, I dont know the exact figures but the production cost is something less than 50 million but sells for 550 million plus. I read somewhere you can manufacture 24 a day. 24 x 500 = 12 billion a day. That's a potential of 360 billion a month. Research the BPO and you get better production. Hulk BPO is 3 billion a week more or less. Please provide proof of this amazing 360b isk per month generating T2 bpo or STFU and GTFO As I stated in my post I did not check the figures but used a previous post to demonstrate. The figure on an unreserached BPO is some around 6.5 billion a week or about 17 billion a month on an unresearched BPO. I don't see any missioners making anywhere near that amount as was quoted or infact anywhere near that amount. Otherwise the allainces would be in there doing nothing but missions. T2 BPO should go,,, bye bye to the free ride in 0.0 STFU and GTFO - how sad and pathetic.
Frieswithyourmilkshake	Posted - 2007.02.24 09:00:00 - [95] Originally by: Xander XacXorien As I stated in my post I did not check the figures but used a previous post to demonstrate. The figure on an unreserached BPO is some around 6.5 billion a week or about 17 billion a month on an unresearched BPO. You've just done it again - which bpo is this? perhaps an expanded cargo 2 bpo on the first day they were released? A few posts above it stated a hulk bpo producing 1 ship per day may turn 3b a week. Even cap recharger 2 bpos now earn less than 2b a week. Any how do you get 17b per month if there is a bpo with the potential to earn you 6.5b a week? I suggest to you if a bpo can earn you 6.5b (using your number) in a week then you should be able to turn 26b a month. The majority of t2 bpos are not huge isk printers, there have been plenty of threads on invention detailing the one or 2 bpos able to make large profits form. I suggest to you perhaps using numbers plucked from nowhere with no supporting evidence = sad and pathetic Most t2 bpo information is accessable from the market how about next time perfor you post completely irrelevant information you actually make an effort to get a clue.
Jenn Atreides	Posted - 2007.02.24 09:35:00 - [96] I see this response as a very kneejerk reaction. So one dev got caught big deal, We are not talking about enuf interfence to totally destroy the economy. But instead what we are talking about is the loss of faith in the ottery system. Does anyone really think that is new. People have been complaining about the lottery system for 4 years but CCP did nothing. I have been researching Starship RP for a loing time and have never had an offer while I guy in my corp has had like 3 major offers inreasing his personal isk value to the neighbourhood of about 100bisk, which instead of being jealous I am happy for him. So as I said this is a kneejerk reaction aimed at damage control. They want nothing to do with fixing this but they have to do something and this is a simpler means to save face then anything else. What should have happened all along was the research agents should have been rewarding missioners with BPC's much the same as mission offers from other agent types. But they didn't so now there is 2 classes in eve. I have been playing for over 2.5 years and I have seen ccp do everything to make the long term player happy and screw about teh new player. This is just another example of pandering to their long term friends. It is a fact that Dev's play in the game and in the alliances etc. They are human and it is human after all to become friends with people you spend time with. So they are friends with the people that own the BPO's ergo it follows that nothing will be done about the BPO's that exist. IN fact this is just a ploy to increase the value of their friends BPO's to withering heights. So the point is that there is no way that they can change to lottery to make it more fair without screwing us or screwing their friends. Either all BPO's have to be changed into limited run BPC's and the BPO holders haev to suck it up or they have to continue down the same path and make it so that the lottery is much more transparent IE: publish the names of the winners and then remove them from the lottery pool completely by removing all their RP's etc. This is CCP's mess and there is no real way to fix it, so at least make it fair. I hope my middle of the night rambling makes sence
Shayla Etherodyne	Posted - 2007.02.24 09:54:00 - [97] Originally by: KHEN T2 BPOs should be simply removed from EVE with no compensation for the holders. Don't whine you made enough profits from these and EVE got wicked enough by that (hmm, faction ships with officer mods in pvp, renewed immediately if destroyed ). The license to print isks must stop now. that will be good to limit the inflation. Change that to "Don't whine I made enough profits from these". On the other hand I have got my first T2 BPO a week ago, and I have spent 6 months of training time on 3 characters to get there. I count to profit from it for a reasonable amount of time before it turn to dust. What most of the "destroy the BPO" people forget is that there are persons getting now the BPO for whick they worked, and they are aspecting a fair return for the work involved. Getting in the lottery is as skill intensive as learning to pilot capitals, currently in the science field I have about 4,5 millions SP, without counting the "support" SP spent in industry and social to build the stuff and rise the standing with the R&D corporation. So I want at least a return from my investment, and a 1000 runs Ammo BPC it is not that.
Jenn Atreides	Posted - 2007.02.24 10:00:00 - [98] Hey Shayla, are you my long lost twin sister? HAHA Look at portraits :):):) Jenn
Shayla Etherodyne	Posted - 2007.02.24 10:26:00 - [99] True , and we both work on research I suppose. We should meet and share a quafe ultra.
Shayla Etherodyne	Posted - 2007.02.24 10:38:00 - [100] An option I feel can be more fair than changing the current existing T" BPO to BPC could be putting them on sale. Something like the hinted system for the LP store. You go to the R&D agent, look the list of T2 blueprint available from that agent and buy the ones you are interested in. The RP you have accumulated give a discount to the BPO price and with the standing you have put a cap to the best BPO you can buy. You have a bad standing with the Amarr R&D corporations but for some reason you absolutly want to get some Amarr ship, only way to go is invention. You are the belowed milk brother of the Corporation CEO, with 10,00 standing and are ready to cash 100.000 RP, you get a T2 BC at a price like 2x a standard BC BPO (RP and ISK cost are very random examples). for lesser RP costs you will get the other tools for invention and construction.

Illuminaty	Posted - 2007.02.25 01:07:00 - [101] T2 BPO owners should be compensated at fair market values when their BPOs are converted into high run BPCs. Going with a 100% carebear solution is easiest, as some people can't accept that if they can't afford to lose it, they shouldn't have invested in it. If T2 BPOs are not I-WIN buttons, then this should not screw over the BPO holders, since they are given time (high run BPC), and resources to shift their industry over to the new game mechanics. If T2 BPOs are I-WIN buttons, then too bad. You were getting over and you damn well knew it. Nobody should be allowed to cash their wallet out and get a free ride until the servers shut down. Anyone with a calculator and access to Jita knows that most of the owners of decent BPOs are simply compulsive liars about their profitablity.
Mentor Grange Minmatar	Posted - 2007.02.25 01:28:00 - [102] CCP should do itself a favor, and before they make this decision, they should hire an actual economist to model the economy and make some recommendations. Economists cost less than computer scientists, and they could probably keep one employed full time looking after their economy. As with real economies, there are unintended consequences of nearly every action, but at least a professional should be able to anticipate most of them, allowing decision makers to mitigate the worst of them and choose between the rest. Mentor
MrPops Caldari Foundation R0ADKILL	Posted - 2007.02.25 01:40:00 - [103] Originally by: Genericforumalt Originally by: Dessa DesPlains Whats not to understand about economics? You have an ISK printer. In the time it take to invent 25 pieces of a T2 item, a bpo holder can churn out 1000. And at a better material level. Doesn't cost a bpo holder datacores. Or invention slots. Or decryptors. Yah, my lack of understand of economics must be preventing me from seeing the massive profit I will invent. TMO No proof-check No reasonable numbers-check Lack of knowledge of the profitability of most T2 bpos-check mindless flame-check yep it's all here. QFT FTW! All these people are special magicians, they have the ability to pull facts, statistics, and general information with extreme certainty and accuracy out of their rear. They are so special.
TorquePSA Forsaken Empire The Forsaken Empire	Posted - 2007.02.25 09:54:00 - [104] Wait, I have a T2 BPO. Just got it a couple weeks ago. I'm not rich... WTF. So 3 years to get 1 BPO and you all just want to take it away before I can make 1 billion let alone "x" billion. I know I'm not down with that. If it were to vanish, I'm sure I wouldn't be far behind. Not griping, just stating what I'm sure would happen. Also, some have pointed this out, but not all T2 BPO are mega-high profit items. The one I have is an OK mod, but the markup is probably less than any of you out there wearing designer name clothes paid when you bought that shirt you are wearing. For sure some will make you very rich very quick, but probably the majority of them just make good money but not exorbitant. If you want to see prices soar, get 1/3 of the current T2 producers to get fed up and leave without selling their backstock or producing anything further. Also, since they are the rich evil T2 goons, that would be a sizable chunk of isk taken out of the general EVE economy as well. Now, I only had 1 economics class in college, but I'm pretty sure that would have a fairly negative impact.
Allen Deckard Gallente WTB Supplies	Posted - 2007.02.25 11:34:00 - [105] Originally by: Petrothian Tong Edited by: Petrothian Tong on 22/02/2007 21:10:46 true..but yeah, I rather would like to see an Research point store like thing... 50000000 RP for a T2 crusier BPO or something like that.. edit: (okay, maybe too far, just found out that with 1 agent, 50000000 RP takes 342 years to accumulate....maybe 100000 RPs.. which is about a year of running one mission for your R&D (can only do 1 a day anyways). worth of RP ) Actually I like the first number you gave. BUT Add to it the ability to sell your rp's to another player. Kentucky where the goats roam and the rednecks run free
Illuminaty	Posted - 2007.02.25 11:36:00 - [106] Originally by: TorquePSA Edited by: TorquePSA on 25/02/2007 09:57:44 Wait, I have a T2 BPO. Just got it a couple weeks ago. I'm not rich... WTF. So 3 years to get 1 BPO and you all just want to take it away before I can make 1 billion let alone "x" billion. I know I'm not down with that. If it were to vanish, I'm sure I wouldn't be far behind. Not griping, just stating what I'm sure would happen. Also, some have pointed this out, but not all T2 BPO are mega-high profit items. The one I have is an OK mod, but the markup is probably less than any of you out there wearing designer name clothes paid when you bought that shirt you are wearing. For sure some will make you very rich very quick, but probably the majority of them just make good money but not exorbitant. Oh, and they build quite slow as well. I just have a normal ship mod BPO and I can only produce 300 a month with it running non-stop, so I don't know where this 1000 crap comes from that would take me 3 1/2 months to produce 1000 units. If you want to see prices soar, get 1/3 of the current T2 producers to get fed up and leave without selling their backstock or producing anything further. Also, since they are the rich evil T2 goons, that would be a sizable chunk of isk taken out of the general EVE economy as well. Now, I only had 1 economics class in college, but I'm pretty sure that would have a fairly negative impact. And I only had one political science class in college, but I'm pretty sure that is FUD. - I don't see many people saying that T2 BPOs should be deleted and no compensation given in there place. - I don't find it likely that anyone who holds a number of T2 BPOs is going to quit this game even if they knew the next patch was going to give them cancer. What I DO see people saying is that the T2 lottery was a poorly designed game mechanic, and that with a little fine tuning and love, invention will be a better game mechanic. I see people saying that as long as the fruits of the T2 lottery are still in the game, it won't be a full migration to the better game mechanic. I don't think anyone is agianst the idea that money makes money if you put it to work properly. I think people are agianst the idea that once you get enough money, you can buy an invulnerable isk printing machine that will last until the server shuts down.
Malthros Zenobia Caldari Independent Navy Reserve	Posted - 2007.02.25 14:56:00 - [107] Edited by: Malthros Zenobia on 25/02/2007 14:53:41 Originally by: Haffrage I can't tell who's saying what in this post. You do know about these things called quote tags, right? Basicly, he's upset because in the end, we're going to have a group of people with T2 BPOs, and everyone else will have to rely on a much more expensive invention process that will never compete on the same level of a BPO. I honestly see no reason whatsoever for us to be unable to try and make a bad ME/PE T2 BPO, even if you have to risk losing all the items in the process. Originally by: kieron The Carrier was never intended to be a solo OMGWTF mission-farming PWNmobile.
Kruugore Minmatar Vigilant Justice	Posted - 2007.02.25 15:14:00 - [108] I do like the idea of invention. But It is absolutely stupid that they won't level the playing field. I'd just declare that within one year all T2 BPO's will become long run BPC's Most T2 BPO prices are based on their value for one year. If they don't take out the BPO's their game is still broken. It gives potential players yet another reason to NOT start playing Eve. Personally, if they leave T2 BPO's. Make them work for their money printer. Require them to be built in <0.4 POS's Mr. K VIGILANT JUSTICE CEO/FOUNDER EVE Vault, A Great Community
Sophia Germain Gallente Fluxion	Posted - 2007.02.25 15:32:00 - [109] Edited by: Sophia Germain on 25/02/2007 15:34:44 Edited by: Sophia Germain on 25/02/2007 15:32:27 Originally by: Kruugore If they don't take out the BPO's their game is still broken. It gives potential players yet another reason to NOT start playing Eve. It also gives existing players a reason to quit playing. I've run daily R&D missions on several characters almost every single fcking day for years now, and have received 1 BPO in return. I'd be absolutely gutted if CCP took the BPO away that I've gained with a lot of hard work and perseverance. If we're counting the amount of work, let's say 3 hours a day on average just for bettering my chances in the lottery. Multiply that by couple of years worth of days, and you get over 2100 hours* of work put into getting a single BPO. Do you call that "just sitting still and waiting for a BPO to drop for no work at all?" If they go there and remove BPOs, they might as well start taking other assets away from people completely randomly. One titan there, one outpost there, maybe a few POS here and there. I'm not saying the lottery is right, but there's still those of us out there who spend hours every single day trying to better our probabilities in it. For those of you who say building T2 means amazing profits and no work at all, you should give it a shot. There's a whole chain of logistics involved, and profit margins on a lot of T2 prints are very small apart from a couple of exceptions such as Hulk.
MrDisposable Caldari Science and Trade Institute	Posted - 2007.02.25 17:32:00 - [110] Originally by: Sophia Germain Edited by: Sophia Germain on 25/02/2007 15:41:47 Edited by: Sophia Germain on 25/02/2007 15:37:14 Edited by: Sophia Germain on 25/02/2007 15:36:07 Originally by: Kruugore If they don't take out the BPO's their game is still broken. It gives potential players yet another reason to NOT start playing Eve. It also gives existing players a reason to quit playing. I've run daily R&D missions on several characters almost every single fcking day for years now, and have received 1 BPO in return. I'd be absolutely gutted if CCP took the BPO away that I've gained with a lot of hard work and perseverance. If we're counting the amount of work, let's say 3 hours a day on average just for bettering my chances in the lottery. Multiply that by couple of years worth of days, and you get over 2100 hours* of work put into getting a single BPO, with no guarantee that you're ever actually going to get anything. Do you call that "just sitting still and waiting for a BPO to drop for no work at all?" If they go there and remove BPOs, they might as well start taking other assets away from people completely randomly. One titan there, one outpost there, maybe a few POS here and there. I'm not saying the lottery is totally right, but there's still those of us out there who spend hours every single day trying to better our probabilities in it. For those of you who say building T2 means amazing profits and no work at all, you should give it a shot. There's a whole chain of logistics involved, and profit margins on a lot of T2 prints are very small apart from a couple of exceptions such as Hulk. Sorry to sound insensitive, but you are being selfish. What is the greatest good here? To protect the interest of maybe 200 players or 200,000 players? If you think of it in that light the answer is fairly obvious. Just in case the answer does somehow elude you, its in 99.9% of the playerbase's best interest to do away with T2 BPOs. Anyway you will still be far ahead of everyone else given the amount of rp you should still have stored up. What you are asking for is an insurmountable advantage for everyone who has been playing the game for a while, this is not in the spirit of EvE. ______________ BoB Alts "This isn't about Dev misconduct.... ban the Ctrl+q'rs! They are the real problem behind it ALL!!!!!" "Devs stole BPOs for the good of eve."

Sophia Germain Gallente Fluxion	Posted - 2007.02.25 18:28:00 - [111] Edited by: Sophia Germain on 25/02/2007 18:30:39 What I don't see is, why do BPOs have to be completely taken out? Why can't CCP just distribute more BPOs via invention or seed them on the market/agents instead of punishing the players who've worked the horribly boring R&D mission grind for years? There's already been several ideas about how BPOs could be bought for RP from agents instead of using the lottery. Is the only solution to slap some old players on the wrist, basically destroying everything they've worked for for their whole Eve lives? I'm not being any more selfish than anyone else. I'm protecting an asset I worked extremely hard to get. If CCP suddenly decided "right, let's delete all faction-kitted ravens from mission runners", that decision would be fairly similar to deleting T2 BPOs. Some people (not all by any means) put in a lot of work to get their assets or income-generating tools, and you can't just take those away. To answer the previous post, the greatest good would be to make BPOs more accessible to everyone via market/agents, and NOT take them away from those of us who have them. If everyone can work to get a BPO via some new system, what harm does it do it the players who got theirs from lottery get to keep them?
Denrace Amarr JEM Industries	Posted - 2007.02.25 18:34:00 - [112] Edited by: Denrace on 25/02/2007 18:31:36 Edited by: Denrace on 25/02/2007 18:30:50 Originally by: Jennifer Meek What I don't want is CCP abnormally taking away what I worked for. Getting rich of a decent T2 BPO (like an ISK printing HAC or an expanded cargo II) is about as easy as stepping on kittens. There is no "work" for something like that. Just complete luck. Solution: TII BPO's available from NPCs at high prices, and roll on T3. Easy, eh? Den ________________________________________ Forum Signatures for just 10Million ISK Just EVEMail me a request ☺
Sophia Germain Gallente Fluxion	Posted - 2007.02.25 18:43:00 - [113] Edited by: Sophia Germain on 25/02/2007 18:41:59 Originally by: Denrace There is no "work" for something like that. Just complete luck. So when does mission running not count as work? It's as much of a grind as anything out there. Try putting a few thousand hours into it before you say it's COMPLETE luck.
MrDisposable Caldari Science and Trade Institute	Posted - 2007.02.25 19:12:00 - [114] Originally by: Sophia Germain Edited by: Sophia Germain on 25/02/2007 18:41:59 Originally by: Denrace There is no "work" for something like that. Just complete luck. So when does mission running not count as work? It's as much of a grind as anything out there. Try putting a few thousand hours into it before you say it's COMPLETE luck. Easy, mission running has a set amount of isk you get back for effort in just about every time guaranteed. You make 20 or so mil isk per hour doing lvl 4 combat missions. Effort in = reward every time. R&D agents require you to just grind standings (corp and faction) and a few skills, then wait. You can do what equates to a 3 minute mission (maybe 5) to double that per agent per day. Then you wait to get lucky. Effort in does not necessarily equal reward. If you truly spent anything more than 5 minutes per agent (more like 30 secs) per day then you are not very good at it. I would be fine with T2 BPOs being available for like 160k RP or something. Lets assume you can get at max 200 rp per day per agent with a max of 6 agents. This means you would need at a minimum 130 days (assuming you could pool 6 agents' worth of RP into an "RP wallet") of doing research missions. That is more than reasonable. Of course you would change the rps/day and the rps needed for a BPO based upon the field multiplier. I still stand by my argument that they can change all T2 BPOs in-game to BPCs if they feel its a good idea because it would only effect 0.1% of the game. The interest of whats good for the game far outweighs what is good for a minuet percentage of the playbase. Think about it from CCP's point of view. Would allowing more people to participate in higher level production and reducing the costs of T2 items increase or decrease the playerbase and/or make the playerbase as a whole happier? I think in those terms the answer is quite clear. ______________ BoB Alts "This isn't about Dev misconduct.... ban the Ctrl+q'rs! They are the real problem behind it ALL!!!!!" "Devs stole BPOs for the good of eve."
Sophia Germain Gallente Fluxion	Posted - 2007.02.25 19:16:00 - [115] Edited by: Sophia Germain on 25/02/2007 19:14:07 Originally by: MrDisposable R&D agents require you to just grind standings (corp and faction) and a few skills, then wait. You can do what equates to a 3 minute mission (maybe 5) to double that per agent per day. Then you wait to get lucky. Effort in does not necessarily equal reward. If you truly spent anything more than 5 minutes per agent (more like 30 secs) per day then you are not very good at it. Really, how do you travel from one end of the universe to the other in 5 minutes? Some of my agents are deep into low sec, and I do several hundred jumps each day to run the missions for all my agents. You don't maximize the RP by just sitting in 1 station in handing the agent trit. Try running missions just for 12 agents every day for a week, then post again and let me know if you did all that in 5 minutes. Just look at distances between locations such as Reisen and Bapraya to get a clue of what sort of distances we're talking about. Going to Bapraya for example means flying through pirate-infested territory in an indy once a day.
MrDisposable Caldari Science and Trade Institute	Posted - 2007.02.25 19:25:00 - [116] Originally by: Sophia Germain Edited by: Sophia Germain on 25/02/2007 19:14:07 Originally by: MrDisposable R&D agents require you to just grind standings (corp and faction) and a few skills, then wait. You can do what equates to a 3 minute mission (maybe 5) to double that per agent per day. Then you wait to get lucky. Effort in does not necessarily equal reward. If you truly spent anything more than 5 minutes per agent (more like 30 secs) per day then you are not very good at it. Really, how do you travel from one end of the universe to the other in 5 minutes? Some of my agents are deep into low sec, and I do several hundred jumps each day to run the missions for all my agents. You don't maximize the RP by just sitting in 1 station in handing the agent trit. Try running missions just for 12 agents every day for a week, then post again and let me know if you did all that in 5 minutes. Just look at distances between locations such as Reisen and Bapraya to get a clue of what sort of distances we're talking about. Going to Bapraya for example means flying through pirate-infested territory in an indy once a day. No your logic is flawed. You are talking about using multiple characters when you should be arguing based upon one character. Most of the time all an agent whats is trit, 8100 trit... that means a one time supply of 1 mil trit to a station will tide you over for quite some time. Courier missions can be done in a interceptor most times, and of course if you are traveling to the agent you should be using an interceptor anyway. Leave a hauler per agent (whats that gonna cost 1 mil isk?) and get a jump clone. most of your R&D agents should all be located within a few jumps and if you really do have any that are 20 jumps or whatever away (unlikely) then jump clone to it. Take however long you spend on agents and divide it by 2, thats what it is for one character to do it. Then if you optimize yourself it should take you maybe 1 hour per day. To claim otherwise just shows your trying to protect your own interest at the cost of everyone else's. ______________ BoB Alts "This isn't about Dev misconduct.... ban the Ctrl+q'rs! They are the real problem behind it ALL!!!!!" "Devs stole BPOs for the good of eve."
Sophia Germain Gallente Fluxion	Posted - 2007.02.25 19:30:00 - [117] Edited by: Sophia Germain on 25/02/2007 19:33:28 You can only clone jump once a day max. Talking to agent remotely doesn't work either, you have to fly to the agent in question to do the daily mission. Even done in an interceptor with pirate implants on, 20+ trips still take you a lot of time back and forth, and is considered very much active playing. If you want the best LV4 agents, you just don't find them in 1 constellation. They're scattered around space, and probably this has been done on purpose to make travel distances and times longer. Oh, and why is talking about multiple characters flawed logic? I'm trying to cover as many different corps/agents as possible, so naturally I do different daily missions for different agents on each account. There's nothing flawed with that logic. The less duplicates, the better the chances of success. All in all, it takes about 3 hours every day to do the missions. Do I really have to provide fraps of this for you?
Acheron Cyc Caldari	Posted - 2007.02.25 19:43:00 - [118] The quick solution to the question of the OP is: Get Dev or a GM into your corp. ------------------------------------------ "To do something right it must be done twice. The first time instructs the second." Simon Bolivar.
MrDisposable Caldari Science and Trade Institute	Posted - 2007.02.25 19:45:00 - [119] Originally by: Sophia Germain Edited by: Sophia Germain on 25/02/2007 19:28:21 You can only clone jump once a day max. Talking to agent remotely doesn't work either, you have to fly to the agent in question to do the daily mission. Even done in an interceptor with pirate implants on, 20+ trips still take you a lot of time back and forth, and is considered very much active playing. If you want the best LV4 agents, you just don't find them in 1 constellation. They're scattered around space, and probably this has been done on purpose to make travel distances and times longer. yes once per day... this means that at the end of your run of local agents (all within a few jumps) you jump clone to the other cluster of agents. The next day you complete your cluster and jump clone back. 20+ trips is so exaggerated its not funny. In an interceptor you can cover 1 jump per minute (actually faster but whatever) and the average courier mission is 4 jumps. thats 4 minutes for 1 mission. Lets say that 3 of your agents give courier mission and three give trit request. you will spend approx 12 minutes doing courier missions and that will leave you with 48 jumps (48 minutes) to travel between the rest of your agents; more than ample time. If you choose to use autopilot your just wasting time. BTW the longest I have had to travel between 2 lvl 4 R&D agents is 12 jumps. The shortest would be in the same system. Basically I do what you are talking about and you are not gonna be able to fool me. As to your thousands of hours claim. Lets say 2 hours per day is spent (I just doubled your amount of time btw) on R&D running. too get to the actual thousand mark would take 500 days, thousands would take in excess of 1000 days. ______________ BoB Alts "This isn't about Dev misconduct.... ban the Ctrl+q'rs! They are the real problem behind it ALL!!!!!" "Devs stole BPOs for the good of eve."
Sophia Germain Gallente Fluxion	Posted - 2007.02.25 19:56:00 - [120] Edited by: Sophia Germain on 25/02/2007 19:56:21 OK, if you want number, here you go. Real systems, route goes through low secs, tweak the waypoints any way you want. It's one of the routes I take every day on one of my characters, all the agents are very good quality: aydoteaux - bapraya - ghesis - reisen - atlulle That's 100 jumps no matter how you twist it, and there's certainly no "cluster" with it anywhere. 1 minute per jump means 100 minutes per day excluding mission times. If you got an idea how to reach all of those locations in 20 jumps max like you said, I'm all ears here. My point is, doing R&D the active way is every bit as much playing the game actively as anything else. If you want the best quality agents out there, you work for it, but punishing people for choosing to work in game like this is just plain wrong.



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