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LordChaos Amarr Celestial Apocalypse Insurgency	Posted - 2007.02.23 14:49:00 - [1] Drone ship? Missle ship? Nos Ship do you think its fittings will change too? i want it to be a drone ship lol since i got 4.5 mill in drones :) ................ i just got a wicked idea Smartbomb damage and range :) lol that be funny what u guys think The Master Of Chaos Celes
Lord WarATron Amarr Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.02.23 14:58:00 - [2] o/ my old friend LordChaos. Well, my friend if we are both not in the same system in 0.0 :) But I think that the apoc would be fine if the 10% laser bonus got changed to a 10% Optimal range bonus. Suddenly the apoc becomes a sniperboat that is actually different in role to a Abaddon, without obsoleting them --
LordChaos Amarr Celestial Apocalypse Insurgency	Posted - 2007.02.23 15:01:00 - [3] Originally by: Lord WarATron o/ my old friend LordChaos. Well, my friend if we are both not in the same system in 0.0 :) But I think that the apoc would be fine if the 10% laser bonus got changed to a 10% Optimal range bonus. Suddenly the apoc becomes a sniperboat that is actually different in role to a Abaddon, without obsoleting them bah we still can pew pew and laugh after it :) anyways that idea be boring lol we want something different we have enough gun boats The Master Of Chaos Celes
Sku1ly STK Scientific INVICTUS.	Posted - 2007.02.23 15:04:00 - [4] Give it interceptor speeds and agility, 50,000PG and CPU, NOS range bonus, NOS amount bonus, and a 1000m3 drone bay. 8/8/8 layout. Win! STK-S
Marcus Alkhaar Exotic Dancers Club Curse Alliance	Posted - 2007.02.23 15:20:00 - [5] I think it could be cool to switch the roles of the amarr battleships so it would be like the following.... Armageddon - keeps the same Bonuses, they're fitting this ship perfectly. Though it could be nice with just a bit more grid... and a tiny bit more CPU. Apocalypse - give it the resistance bonus and the cap reduction bonus, it makes it into the amarr tanker-ship, grid could be revaluated on this ship too.... but its kinda fine as it is atm, unless you try to fit Tachs. Abaddon, Damage bonus to lasers and reduce 7.5 or 10% cap recharge per level. It'll leave you able to run your guns more or less 24/7 with the bonus, and who would really want to use autocannons on a ship with damage bonus to lasers that run 24/7? ------------------ Might Aswell Train Another Race Idiot
Toaster Oven	Posted - 2007.02.23 15:28:00 - [6] Drone boat with bonus to "capacitor warfare"
Horza Otho Minmatar Infortunatus Eventus	Posted - 2007.02.23 15:45:00 - [7] Originally by: Toaster Oven Drone boat with bonus to "capacitor warfare" If it had this bonus then i would have to train amarr for my new found domi. --- Eris Discordia is miiiiiine uhhh, you sure? -Eris ofc i am pets voodoo eris doll
The GR8One	Posted - 2007.02.23 15:51:00 - [8] Drone Boat with a Nos bonus would be lovely...since Amarr already have a handful of ships that do either of this on the smaller scale (Curse, Pilgrim, Arby). Seriously, I would love that kind of a setup since it is less effective to use an Apoc as a gunboat.
Kruel Blunt Force Syndicate	Posted - 2007.02.23 15:53:00 - [9] It would be nice to have an Amarr droneboat battleship. I wonder if that would be stepping on Gallente's toes, but we have the Arby, so I dunno.
Nir The Doldrums	Posted - 2007.02.23 16:11:00 - [10] Neut/Nos bonus is fine, aslong as its dronebay stays the same size it is now. Drone bonus is fine aslong as it isn't in conjunction with a Nos bonus. The combination of both would turn it into the next gen iwin ship. I'm inclined to agree with waratron -keep it a turret boat but apply a different role that Amarr doesn't have yet- make a sniper out of it.
Lord WarATron Amarr Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.02.23 16:26:00 - [11] Originally by: LordChaos Originally by: Lord WarATron o/ my old friend LordChaos. Well, my friend if we are both not in the same system in 0.0 :) But I think that the apoc would be fine if the 10% laser bonus got changed to a 10% Optimal range bonus. Suddenly the apoc becomes a sniperboat that is actually different in role to a Abaddon, without obsoleting them bah we still can pew pew and laugh after it :) anyways that idea be boring lol we want something different we have enough gun boats Yeah. However I doubt the devs would ever change amarr BS's from being turret focused. Drones Boats wont happen because the Gallente will complain, Torp boats wont happen because Caldari will complain. But There is only two real options that I can think of that are practical. The first being the 10% Optimal Range bonus, so the apoc becomes the Long Range, though not high damage, fleet ship. Or, as a smartbomb boat with a Smartbomb Range/Damage Bonus. I would love a torp firing, Drone spamming, Nos Sucking, Armour Tanking Behemoth... or any of those, but I just dont beleive ccp listen enough to Amarr players to make any movement into these directions. Otherwise, the apoc just becomes what it is today - A sustainable Neut boat. --
Admiral Bosch	Posted - 2007.02.23 16:35:00 - [12] give it 20% bonus to nos range per lvl and 10% bonus to nos amount per lvl. :D suxking cap at 50km. It would be like an over grown balh. minus the webber bonus
LordChaos Amarr Celestial Apocalypse Insurgency	Posted - 2007.02.23 16:45:00 - [13] Originally by: Lord WarATron Originally by: LordChaos Originally by: Lord WarATron o/ my old friend LordChaos. Well, my friend if we are both not in the same system in 0.0 :) But I think that the apoc would be fine if the 10% laser bonus got changed to a 10% Optimal range bonus. Suddenly the apoc becomes a sniperboat that is actually different in role to a Abaddon, without obsoleting them bah we still can pew pew and laugh after it :) anyways that idea be boring lol we want something different we have enough gun boats Yeah. However I doubt the devs would ever change amarr BS's from being turret focused. Drones Boats wont happen because the Gallente will complain, Torp boats wont happen because Caldari will complain. But There is only two real options that I can think of that are practical. The first being the 10% Optimal Range bonus, so the apoc becomes the Long Range, though not high damage, fleet ship. Or, as a smartbomb boat with a Smartbomb Range/Damage Bonus. I would love a torp firing, Drone spamming, Nos Sucking, Armour Tanking Behemoth... or any of those, but I just dont beleive ccp listen enough to Amarr players to make any movement into these directions. Otherwise, the apoc just becomes what it is today - A sustainable Neut boat. but i dont get it why would people complain? Caldari has 3 completely different BS Gallente have 2 megat and hyp a bit the same but different Minnie have Typhoon which is a missle spamming gun spamming drone spamming ownage of a ship and tempest best alpha and a tanker for a malestrom and what does amarr have? Gunship1= awesome long range short range ship and good solo btw Gunship2= Worthless after introduction of Gunship3 Gunship3= nice fleet ship boring really The Master Of Chaos Celes
Erim Solfara Amarr Tarlos INC	Posted - 2007.02.23 16:48:00 - [14] DRONES?! NOS?! HEATHENS I SAY New ship class
Jamirie ironwood ink	Posted - 2007.02.23 16:51:00 - [15] Originally by: Erim Solfara DRONES?! NOS?! HEATHENS I SAY What's wrong with Nos? /boggle Signatures made upon request, comes with free hosting, contact me in-game for a quote
Lord WarATron Amarr Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.02.23 17:02:00 - [16] Originally by: LordChaos Originally by: Lord WarATron Originally by: LordChaos Originally by: Lord WarATron o/ my old friend LordChaos. Well, my friend if we are both not in the same system in 0.0 :) But I think that the apoc would be fine if the 10% laser bonus got changed to a 10% Optimal range bonus. Suddenly the apoc becomes a sniperboat that is actually different in role to a Abaddon, without obsoleting them bah we still can pew pew and laugh after it :) anyways that idea be boring lol we want something different we have enough gun boats Yeah. However I doubt the devs would ever change amarr BS's from being turret focused. Drones Boats wont happen because the Gallente will complain, Torp boats wont happen because Caldari will complain. But There is only two real options that I can think of that are practical. The first being the 10% Optimal Range bonus, so the apoc becomes the Long Range, though not high damage, fleet ship. Or, as a smartbomb boat with a Smartbomb Range/Damage Bonus. I would love a torp firing, Drone spamming, Nos Sucking, Armour Tanking Behemoth... or any of those, but I just dont beleive ccp listen enough to Amarr players to make any movement into these directions. Otherwise, the apoc just becomes what it is today - A sustainable Neut boat. but i dont get it why would people complain? Caldari has 3 completely different BS Gallente have 2 megat and hyp a bit the same but different Minnie have Typhoon which is a missle spamming gun spamming drone spamming ownage of a ship and tempest best alpha and a tanker for a malestrom and what does amarr have? Gunship1= awesome long range short range ship and good solo btw Gunship2= Worthless after introduction of Gunship3 Gunship3= nice fleet ship boring really Amarr people would not complain for something different, but sadly, as was demonstrated on the forums during the great 100 ~~years~~ page war, lots of great ideas came out. However the chances of any of them taking form in practical reality are close to zero. Insted, I think what we should do is pitch for something that is acheivable, such as a smartbomb boat or a optimal range boat. As much as I would like to have the apoc becoming a Battleship "Curse", or a 8 Torp EM Damage bonus spammer, I doubt that will ever happen in this game. --
Toaster Oven	Posted - 2007.02.23 17:11:00 - [17] Battleship "Curse" might be asking too much. But I think a drone boat with armor resist bonus works just fine and fits in with Amarr racial design. There's no reason there can be only 1 BS drone boat in this game.
Mrski Okupator Amarr Cry Me A River Inc.	Posted - 2007.02.23 17:37:00 - [18] Ahh, list of wishes; #1 Missile ship. We don't have one. And rats/missions are a big effin pain in the arse with just EM/Thermal dmg and teh worst tracking. Yes, I'll take one, thank you. Jut expand the missile slots to 4. At least. #2 Nos/neutralizer ship, won't be overpowered after nos nerf (?) #3 Drone ship (although geddon is decent enough in that area.) Cry Me A River Inc. We Care. For a small donation.
Nyxus GALAXIAN Rule of Three	Posted - 2007.02.23 17:45:00 - [19] Turn the Apoc into the Capacitor warfare boat that it deserves to be. Give it a large dronebay (smaller than a domi) and perhaps 2 more missile hardpoints. Amarr Battleship Skill Bonus: 10% bonus to Energy Vampire drain amount per level, 10% reduction in laser energy use per level. 150m3 dronespace Consider going 6 turrets/4 missile hardpoints. Distinctly Amarrian, balanced similar to a Bhaalgorn vampire wise, very usefull in small gang action with it's flexibility. Less drones than a domi, different than the other Amarrian battleships. Nyxus The Gallente ideals of Freedom, Liberty and Equality will be met by the Amarr realities of Lasers, Armor and Battleships.
X99 Z990	Posted - 2007.02.23 17:55:00 - [20] Id love drones or nos or dronos or nosrones. No missiles please. They would only make it worse than a raven just for balance sake so lets build it Amarr + Good.
Felix Dzerzhinsky Pirates of Destruction Union Freelancer Alliance	Posted - 2007.02.23 18:05:00 - [21] A Nos/Drone boat Apoc would be overpowered. . . And everyone would train Amarr again. . . I alreay hate seeing people train for FOTM stuff (currently Minmatar) and trying to Min/Max. The role change would prbably be as a capital support ship, with energy transfer bonus'. . . you wait and see, money says its something like this.
Mastin Dragonfly Amarr	Posted - 2007.02.23 18:09:00 - [22] 6 launchers 200 m3 dronebay 5% RoF for cruise and torpedos 10% drone hitpoint and damage Finally a missionboat that doesn't look like either a turd or a flatted insect.
ArtemisEntreri	Posted - 2007.02.23 18:36:00 - [23] Originally by: Mastin Dragonfly 6 launchers 200 m3 dronebay 5% RoF for cruise and torpedos 10% drone hitpoint and damage Finally a missionboat that doesn't look like either a turd or a flatted insect. This ship would have 1200 dps+ at 60km range... GOOD IDEA!!!
Mastin Dragonfly Amarr	Posted - 2007.02.23 19:04:00 - [24] Originally by: ArtemisEntreri Originally by: Mastin Dragonfly 6 launchers 200 m3 dronebay 5% RoF for cruise and torpedos 10% drone hitpoint and damage Finally a missionboat that doesn't look like either a turd or a flatted insect. This ship would have 1200 dps+ at 60km range... GOOD IDEA!!! I didn't say I'd believe they'd ever do that. Of course the thing is overpowered.
Agillious Gallente Inner Circle Helter-Skelter	Posted - 2007.02.23 19:30:00 - [25] Edited by: Agillious on 23/02/2007 19:27:21 The big issue that I have with any kind of boost to the damage output of the Apoc is that I think it needs three different bonuses to be effective. Lasers need a damage boost to overcome resists, need a cap/use bonus to be viable in sustained combat, and then something that isn't damage related otherwise its just a weapons platform with no character. Yeah, I know, needing that last bonus isn't necessary, but to define the Apoc it is. As it stands I'm expecting one "weapon" bonus and one "non-weapon" bonus. Sigh. I like (Aside from the fact that the Bhaalgorn, or however it is spelled, is based on the Geddon...): 5% bonus to cycle time on NOS + Neuts/lvl 5% bonus to armor resist/lvl Just no launchers or you have another prime Nano-boat. Pulse Boat! 5% bonus to cycle time on NOS + Neuts/lvl 5% bonus to lg lsr cap use/lvl Pulse Boat (mk2)! 7.5% bonus to lg lsr cap use/lvl 10% bonus to AB cycle time/lvl (or AB effectiveness) Yeah, yeah... afterburners? do people still use these? I like them for the not so scary fittings compared to MWD as well as the less cap use. Makes sense for the Amarr. I don't see them ever implementing a Smart Bomb bonus because of the empire complications. MORE SHINY, PLEASE!!!
Kruel Blunt Force Syndicate	Posted - 2007.02.23 19:39:00 - [26] Well first of all CCP needs to ditch the laser cap use (non)bonus and make lasers use less cap. Amarr ships effectively have 1 bonus. Either that or make lasers pwn a lot more. Perhaps the "heat" idea will do that.
Gaius Kador PIE Inc.	Posted - 2007.02.23 19:53:00 - [27] Originally by: Nyxus Turn the Apoc into the Capacitor warfare boat that it deserves to be. Give it a large dronebay (smaller than a domi) and perhaps 2 more missile hardpoints. Amarr Battleship Skill Bonus: 10% bonus to Energy Vampire drain amount per level, 10% reduction in laser energy use per level. 150m3 dronespace Consider going 6 turrets/4 missile hardpoints. Distinctly Amarrian, balanced similar to a Bhaalgorn vampire wise, very usefull in small gang action with it's flexibility. Less drones than a domi, different than the other Amarrian battleships. Nyxus I liked the first sentence, but then you lost the thread. Give the Apoc a sustainability role, let it become The tank within the Amarr arsenal. Change the cap bonus into a rep amount, or resistance based bonus. That would be a hell of a lot more useful, as the capsize bonus is effectively another indirect bonus. I sure dont want a tier2 Amarr Dominix. ----------------------------------------------
Silas Vitalia Khanid Provincial Vanguard Khanid Provincial Authority	Posted - 2007.02.23 20:20:00 - [28] My 2 cents: 1. As Gaius stated, perhaps give it a rep bonus amount per level and armor resist per level, make it the obvious tanker of the three. 2. As many others have stated, turn it into a real, viable cap warfare vessel. I really like the Nos/neut bonus ideas, but after the nos nerf that is coming, perhaps this won't be as useful? 3. SB bonus would be wonderful, but never going to happen since empire pilots will be Concorded regularly and the powers that be won't waste a bonus like that. (I'm skipping the obvious joke about wasting a bonus on every single amarr ship for laser cap use) 4. Hesitant to ask for grid/cpu upgrades on the apoc, since I think those issues are more race-wide than any specific ship. If lasers are 'fixed' then we hopefully won't be wasting too many ship bonuses on them, unlike currently giving amarr boats only one effective bonus. 5. On that note, make lasers deal "heat" (not thermal) damage after heat management is incorporated into combat. I think that might start to balance out many laser issues; if we can have a significant racial bonus in being able to deal heat-system damage, it might make all the fitting/capacitor issues worth it. Then maybe we get a few specialized ships with bonuses to heat damage, say the apoc. But that's probably a pipe dream. Let's just go with nos/drone boat or some sort of wacky transfer bonus.
Goumindong Amarr Merch Industrial We Are Nice Guys	Posted - 2007.02.23 20:21:00 - [29] Edited by: Goumindong on 23/02/2007 20:19:54 Originally by: Agillious snip ABs on pulse battleship are a waste, i could go into why, but im not going to bother. Nos is right out, i doubt they will want to introduce another nos boat, especialy a tech 1 battleship version. The bhaalgorn is faction and hard to get a hold of at the least. So lets examine some bonuses and whether or not we expect to get them, trying to whittle down answers until we get something concrete. 1) RoF, Damage, Resistance: These are unlikly because they overlap with the Abaddon and Geddon already. Since this is a "role change" and the Apocalypse has the role that the Abaddon and Geddon already run it means that we are unlikly to see these bonuses. 2) 10% cap use/level: This is also unlikly since we are seeing a role change. It is possible however, in conjunction with number 3. 3) 10% optimal range/level: This is unlikly because it pushes the Apocs pulse range into the stratosphere, allowing it to use shorter range ammo creating a real effective damage boost. However, it would create a real niche in the laser line of ships with the Abaddon being the solo ship[zomg armor], the geddon being the gang ship and the Apoc being the fleet ship. An optimal bonused apoc infringes on the Geddons small gang role[60km pulses zomg] though not too severely due to drones 4) Tracking dusrupting range/effectiveness/etc: This works for the arbitrator line of ships, there is an awesome black khanid model for the apoc floating around and only one other battleship has an EW bonus. It certianly is a role change and would require a large fitting change to accomidate TDs in the mide 5) Drones: We have em on the cruiser and recon level, makes sense we might get one on the Battleship level. This fits in line with the tracking disrupting bonus above. Problems include the age old drone problems, what to do about NOS. Especialy when the Apoc will likly have the powergrid to fit a full rack of Heavy Nos due to the nessesity to be able to fit racial weapons. 6) Nosferatu bonus: Right out, range, strength whatever, its not going to be in. Its broken, its not going in on a tech 1 battleship with Heavy Nos. I dont think Tux is the brighest bulb in the bunch, but he isnt dim, and certianly isnt THAT dim. 7) Capacitor Bonus: Likly seeing as it already has one. A cap bonus can only work with a boat that isnt a laser boat. This is due to the ship getting a role change and well, Cap/cap use is what we have already. 8) Neutralizer Cap use Bonus: This would be an interesting bonus. Very strong, possibly overpowered, probably not. It would work with a cap bonus, drone bonus, and a tracking disruptor bonus, or another neutralizer bonus[like range] 9) Energy Transfer Bonus: This would also be an interesting bonus, turning the Apoc into the first battleship sized logistics ship. Similar in effect to the scorpion being the only EW battleship. It has its issues, but it certianly would be a role change 10) Energy Emissions Systems bonus: 8 and 9, but at the same time. If done correctly can ignore NOS boosts. While giving the augororpoc a real offense. 11) Armor size bonus: See augoror. Unlikly due to high battleships armor HP already and less nessesity for HP buffers due to ease of 1600 plate fitting. Still very strong under concentrated fire and great for a logistics ship. All in all i think the combinations that are most likly, in no paticular order are: Optimal/Energy use Tracking Disruptor/Drone Cap/neutralizer Neut/drone Energy Transfer/Drone Energy Emmissions/Drone *Neut/cap etc etc etc ED: hadnt thought about smartbomb bonuses, but i dont think those are likly. Double tanking bonuses, especialy ones using gallente racial tanking bonuses are right out. ---------------------------------------- Thou Shalt "Pew Pew"
Kazuo Ishiguro	Posted - 2007.02.23 20:55:00 - [30] I quite like the idea of a smartbomb battleship - in particular, putting a cloak on one and using it to ambush people. 20% per level to smartbomb radius and 5% per level to damage would make for a volley of over 3k before people even knew what hit them... ------ Top speed calculation spreadsheet - feedback welcome :)
Kerdrak Amarr 3B Legio IX Freelancer Alliance	Posted - 2007.02.23 21:15:00 - [31] Yes, an Arbitrapoc would be awesome ________________________________________ First atheist amarr on EVE
Arthur Guinness Caldari Finite Horizon	Posted - 2007.02.23 22:15:00 - [32] Originally by: Sku1ly Give it interceptor speeds and agility, 50,000PG and CPU, NOS range bonus, NOS amount bonus, and a 1000m3 drone bay. 8/8/8 layout. Win! Post of the week for me tbh, cheers sku1ly, and btw am I the only 1 who appreciated the joke?
Goumindong Amarr Merch Industrial We Are Nice Guys	Posted - 2007.02.23 22:35:00 - [33] Originally by: Kazuo Ishiguro I quite like the idea of a smartbomb battleship - in particular, putting a cloak on one and using it to ambush people. 20% per level to smartbomb radius and 5% per level to damage would make for a volley of over 3k before people even knew what hit them... 10km tech 1 smartbombs @ 500 or so DPS seems a bit excessive. Smartbomb specialization is dangerous. Especialy with officer smartbombs. I want to see it work, but not sure it would. anyway: 6/6/6 arbypoc would get my vote. It would even have the ideal slot layout of an apocalpyse. ---------------------------------------- Thou Shalt "Pew Pew"
Scordite	Posted - 2007.02.23 23:49:00 - [34] Originally by: Goumindong 6/6/6 arbypoc would get my vote. It would even have the ideal slot layout of an apocalpyse. Heh. Anyways, the more I think of it, the more the laser cap use bonus annoys me. Not because I really think it's useless (if armor omnitanks weren't so common/effective it certainly wouldn't be), but more because it's the root of all amarr ship role problems. So hard to make several ships of the same class varied compared to each other with only 1 bonus to work with. ----------------------------------------------- The only legitimate use of the BLINK tag: Schr÷dinger's cat is [BLINK] not [/BLINK] dead.
Goumindong Amarr Merch Industrial We Are Nice Guys	Posted - 2007.02.23 23:54:00 - [35] Originally by: Scordite Originally by: Goumindong 6/6/6 arbypoc would get my vote. It would even have the ideal slot layout of an apocalpyse. Heh. Anyways, the more I think of it, the more the laser cap use bonus annoys me. Not because I really think it's useless (if armor omnitanks weren't so common/effective it certainly wouldn't be), but more because it's the root of all amarr ship role problems. So hard to make several ships of the same class varied compared to each other with only 1 bonus to work with. You should go tell Tuxford that over in his blog post. Maybe a second voice will help. ---------------------------------------- Thou Shalt "Pew Pew"
Mastin Dragonfly Amarr	Posted - 2007.02.24 00:23:00 - [36] Originally by: Goumindong 6/6/6 arbypoc would get my vote. It would even have the ideal slot layout of an apocalpyse. The Apocalypse comes from God, not the Devil iirc.
Goumindong Amarr Merch Industrial We Are Nice Guys	Posted - 2007.02.24 01:30:00 - [37] Originally by: Mastin Dragonfly Originally by: Goumindong 6/6/6 arbypoc would get my vote. It would even have the ideal slot layout of an apocalpyse. The Apocalypse comes from God, not the Devil iirc. So does the devil. And the beast, whose number it is, comes during the apocalypse. Though its not like Amarran lore follows earths bible. ---------------------------------------- Thou Shalt "Pew Pew"
Toolivus	Posted - 2007.02.24 02:22:00 - [38] Energy Transfer amount bonus (amount + range might be a bit powerful) Logistic Drone rep/boost and hp Bonus With an hefty base capacitor, 275m3 drone bay, 6/5/7 6/2 layout.
Valadeya uthanaras	Posted - 2007.02.24 03:40:00 - [39] Well i made some math and here what i came with for a arbypoc: first the idea of a 6/6/6 layout is completly irrationnal, no amarr ship should be allowed to use: speed gear AND takler gear AND disruption(damp/TD/ECM)on a ship, its a amarrian flaw and having 4 med is a absolute maximum (except for curse and pilgrim...T2..) that said lets think of a more rationnal setup that wont be overpowered and that will have a nice role I would like to keep the idea of a bs sized arby,and introducing cap warfare, but a 6/6/6 layout is a dream we will never have so lets be constructive. apocalypse: 8/4/7 150m3 drone bay 2 launchers hardpoints 4 turrets hardpoints same armor/sheild/hull and a bit less initial speed bonus would go 10% bonus to (nos/neut) drain amount per level and a 10% bonus to drone lower grid to 13000( a lot harder to fit) keep the same cpu(nos/neut cost a lot of cpu....for amarr) with this current layout, amarr wil finally get a decent tier 2 bs that wont be overpowered turret and launcher are unbonused and with its fairly low grid, unless you fit RCU, you wont be able to fits dual rep + nos/neut + guns.....making it harder to fit but still making it possible to feild a decent setup. It sure require some testing but imo...it would be far worse to allow like i said before, to have a handfull of mid, than having a ship that would feild a nice tank without being too powerfull. To the gallente who started the game on the "EASY MODE" and would complain that an amarr ship is getting better than a domi......just lol.....150m3....not a really big drone bay.......and you where supossed to fit gun in those high.... Any opinion.....it should be a ship capable of doing some solo work, but still having the problem of its low grid.....we wont see 8 nos/3 rep + hardener setup.....not even with rigs
Audri Fisher Caldari The Keep THE R0CK	Posted - 2007.02.24 03:50:00 - [40] Change the 5% cap per level to 10% armor hp per level... The anti-Doomsday Battlship....
Rania Serlia World Order The Imperial Order	Posted - 2007.02.24 05:06:00 - [41] Lose highslots for mids(+1 or +2 would be nice), drop cap bonus for tracking disruptor effectiveness bonus, increase dronebay to 125 m3, reduce powergrid slightly. A pulse(or more likely to most just nos) using ewaring ship with 5 heavy drones? 7-5-7 with tracking disruptor and a gun cap use bonus(drone damage would cause gallente screaming and pain) would be nice... Resist bonus would be nice, failing that, of course, but the abbadon alreay fulfills the role of tank nicely. I'm just dreaming, but I like the looks of the apoc, and just never got one because it sucked so much.
Terazuk Amarr FIRMA Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.02.24 07:34:00 - [42] Edited by: Terazuk on 24/02/2007 07:31:22 Er... doesn't the Geddon have a 125m3 drone bay? And I quite like the Apoc. It has good cap performance, at least compared to the geddon or dare I even say it the... aBADdon /emote shudders (FFS FIX IT!!!!) The Apoc is the most versatile Amarr BS but dont expect miracles :s I just wish training time for armour tanking turret ships was more in line with shield tanking missile ships. NERF CALDARI -~- Take the above post seriously at your peril -~-
Goumindong Amarr Merch Industrial We Are Nice Guys	Posted - 2007.02.24 11:38:00 - [43] Originally by: Valadeya uthanaras first the idea of a 6/6/6 layout is completly irrationnal, no amarr ship should be allowed to use: speed gear AND takler gear AND disruption(damp/TD/ECM)on a ship, its a amarrian flaw and having 4 med is a absolute maximum (except for curse and pilgrim...T2..) that said lets think of a more rationnal setup that wont be overpowered and that will have a nice role I would like to keep the idea of a bs sized arby,and introducing cap warfare, but a 6/6/6 layout is a dream we will never have so lets be constructive. The arbitrator has the most mids of any non-shield tanking cruiser in the game. It has more mids than any Gallente or Minmatar cruiser. Giving an Arbypoc 4 mids is just frankly stupid. Its like giving the scorpion 2 lows because "it shouldnt be able to fit EW and a strong armor tank". The problem is that in doing so it kills the ability of the ship to do its primary job. Which would be turret jam. As well the larger number of highs would just open up the ship to more neutralizer abuse. ESPECIALY WITH A NOS/NEUT DRAIN AMOUNT bonus. You think the dominix is nasty now? Just wait till you see one with two more high slots 50% more damaging heavy NOS/neuts and the same slot of tank. Oh, and the drone-bay is too small for a drone battleship. 6/6/6 4 launchers, 4 turrets 300 m^3 drone bay Lots of CPU, less powergrid +Tracking Disruptor Optimal Range +Drone Damage/HP ------------------------------------- Another interesting option would be a singular bonus: +1 rig slot/level. But that would probably get broken pretty fast :) ---------------------------------------- Thou Shalt "Pew Pew"
Mastin Dragonfly Amarr	Posted - 2007.02.24 11:47:00 - [44] Originally by: Goumindong Originally by: Valadeya uthanaras first the idea of a 6/6/6 layout is completly irrationnal, no amarr ship should be allowed to use: speed gear AND takler gear AND disruption(damp/TD/ECM)on a ship, its a amarrian flaw and having 4 med is a absolute maximum (except for curse and pilgrim...T2..) that said lets think of a more rationnal setup that wont be overpowered and that will have a nice role I would like to keep the idea of a bs sized arby,and introducing cap warfare, but a 6/6/6 layout is a dream we will never have so lets be constructive. The arbitrator has the most mids of any non-shield tanking cruiser in the game. It has more mids than any Gallente or Minmatar cruiser. Giving an Arbypoc 4 mids is just frankly stupid. Its like giving the scorpion 2 lows because "it shouldnt be able to fit EW and a strong armor tank". The problem is that in doing so it kills the ability of the ship to do its primary job. Which would be turret jam. As well the larger number of highs would just open up the ship to more neutralizer abuse. ESPECIALY WITH A NOS/NEUT DRAIN AMOUNT bonus. You think the dominix is nasty now? Just wait till you see one with two more high slots 50% more damaging heavy NOS/neuts and the same slot of tank. Oh, and the drone-bay is too small for a drone battleship. 6/6/6 4 launchers, 4 turrets 300 m^3 drone bay Lots of CPU, less powergrid +Tracking Disruptor Optimal Range +Drone Damage While I agree on your reasoning, the first thought I had when seeing 6 midslots and 6 lowslots was: shieldtanking nanoship with heavy drone damage.
Goumindong Amarr Merch Industrial We Are Nice Guys	Posted - 2007.02.24 12:09:00 - [45] Originally by: Mastin Dragonfly While I agree on your reasoning, the first thought I had when seeing 6 midslots and 6 lowslots was: shieldtanking nanoship with heavy drone damage. Going to nano a ship with less low slots than a domi, that goes slower, and has a higher mass? Yea, if you want to explode... a lot ---------------------------------------- Thou Shalt "Pew Pew"
Wizard Without Reason FATAL Alliance	Posted - 2007.02.24 12:15:00 - [46] Edited by: Wizard on 24/02/2007 12:13:41 Originally by: LordChaos Drone ship? Missle ship? Nos Ship do you think its fittings will change too? i want it to be a drone ship lol since i got 4.5 mill in drones :) ................ i just got a wicked idea Smartbomb damage and range :) lol that be funny what u guys think Nos ship sounds gd but i think they are overpowered kinda at the moment, id like to see a stacking penelty and any ship that is meant to fit NOS to be immune from the stacking penelty like the appoc ( if changes ) and bhaalgorn/ashimmuu etc. Without Reason corp website ^^looking for a PvP corp with little stress then
Lakotnik The Legion of Spoon Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2007.02.24 12:15:00 - [47] What about giving apoc armor resist instead of cap use? Remove 3 turret hardpoints and give 3 missile ones. Remove 1 hislot for 1 med. It would be a decent unpredictible heavy tank ship. Probably pure nos setup if nos doesnt change... It would probably see a lot of use against capital ships but might become too uber that way... -- Smile, tomorrow will be worse.
Nyxus GALAXIAN Rule of Three	Posted - 2007.02.24 15:08:00 - [48] TBH I think that while some slot changes would be nice, I don't see it happening as it is more difficult than the easiest road to balancing is merely "change the bonus" which I think is more practical. Now, as to a Nos/Neut bonus similar to what a the Bhaalgorn has. Tux has already stated that Amarr of all races should get a bonus to capacitor warfare. Originally by: Tuxford The Amarr were supposed to be the capacitor race, today that can be best characterized by the fact that they need most of it. It seems blatantly obvious that they should get bonus to capacitor warfare. Of course that is totally dependant on how we're "overhauling" nosferatus. So not only is a nos bonus possible possible, it seems likely that it's already in development with the overall nos nerf. It's our job to throw ideas out to make it balanced. Now several people have said that it would be unbalanced. I disagree, as long as the nos bonus is on the Apoc. The current reason that nos is unbalanced on ships like the domi is that it can fit a rack of nos, a tank, AND it's primary form of dps via it's no fitting cost, bonused drones. It makes no compromises between damage, cap warfare, and tanking. The Apoc does not have this luxury, and would thereby keep it balanced. Here is a damage chart of the Apoc with 4 turrets/4 nos + ogre IIs and an Apoc with 4 Siege/4nos + ogre IIs compared to standard fit nos bs out there now. 4 weapon/4 nos Apoc with 5 Ogre IIs dps comparison As is plain to see, the Apoc's damage is nothing spectacular, especially compared to a Typhoon. Most of the damage comes from the Ogres. Without the ogres the Apoc's unbonused damage is 280dps or so. And thats just too craptacular. A nos/nuet Apoc is balanced by fitting requirements. It has to make compromises in it's fitting. A domi or speed phoon doesn't. Thats why the cap warfare apoc would be balanced while the nos domi definitely is not. Nyxus The Gallente ideals of Freedom, Liberty and Equality will be met by the Amarr realities of Lasers, Armor and Battleships.
Scordite	Posted - 2007.02.24 15:45:00 - [49] Originally by: Goumindong You should go tell Tuxford that over in his blog post. Maybe a second voice will help. Done. ----------------------------------------------- The only legitimate use of the BLINK tag: Schr÷dinger's cat is [BLINK] not [/BLINK] dead.
Erim Solfara Amarr Tarlos INC	Posted - 2007.02.24 16:35:00 - [50] Originally by: Jamirie Originally by: Erim Solfara DRONES?! NOS?! HEATHENS I SAY What's wrong with Nos? /boggle Well the problem I have is our lack of turrets in some groups, I always thought Amarr should be the race most able to viably fit a full rack of guns, and lots of guns. But that's just me. New ship class
Arx Impera Amarr Gr0und Zer0	Posted - 2007.02.24 18:07:00 - [51] Bonus to Cap Transfer Bonus to Nos/Neutralizer Amarr Warfare at its best. ...who of course promptly went bat****, flipped out and killed some people.
Gaius Kador PIE Inc.	Posted - 2007.02.24 18:20:00 - [52] Originally by: Goumindong Originally by: Kazuo Ishiguro I quite like the idea of a smartbomb battleship - in particular, putting a cloak on one and using it to ambush people. 20% per level to smartbomb radius and 5% per level to damage would make for a volley of over 3k before people even knew what hit them... 10km tech 1 smartbombs @ 500 or so DPS seems a bit excessive. Smartbomb specialization is dangerous. Especialy with officer smartbombs. I want to see it work, but not sure it would. anyway: 6/6/6 arbypoc would get my vote. It would even have the ideal slot layout of an apocalpyse. Too many mids ;) ----------------------------------------------
Captain Crimson Caldari CoreTech Industries	Posted - 2007.02.24 19:22:00 - [53] Long range pew pewer..... or make it into a tank boat. Originally by: Tuxford I have already expressed my personal opinion on this and it was very positive (something about happy in the pants).
Kidd Billups Reflex.	Posted - 2007.02.24 19:25:00 - [54] Edited by: Kidd Billups on 24/02/2007 19:23:00 honestly, i'll be happy as long as it gets one of the following: Drone Bay Increase Optimal Range Bonus NOS amount/range/cycle time (doesnt matter) Damage Bonus Resistance Bonus some people might think NOS bonuses would overpower the apoc but it wouldn't do that at all. The scorp is Spec'd in Jamming and isnt overpowered b/c of it's lack of tank. The apoc would have a NOS bonus at the expense of it's damage output. But then again, there are a lot of more details i have over looked. just an idea
Shinjuro Chaos Reborn	Posted - 2007.02.24 19:54:00 - [55] Ohh LC, you really have had it now. If you give that ship a nos bonus, it becomes the most overpowered ship in game like that. If you give it bonuses for drone damage, and god forbid some mid slots, then you have a complete role change (this is what people are yelling for), and it will be used often. I would like to see a smartbombing bonus on a ship someday, just not on an apoc..
BlackHorizon Caldari Umbra Congregatio Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.02.24 20:15:00 - [56] Originally by: Goumindong Originally by: Valadeya uthanaras first the idea of a 6/6/6 layout is completly irrationnal, no amarr ship should be allowed to use: speed gear AND takler gear AND disruption(damp/TD/ECM)on a ship, its a amarrian flaw and having 4 med is a absolute maximum (except for curse and pilgrim...T2..) that said lets think of a more rationnal setup that wont be overpowered and that will have a nice role I would like to keep the idea of a bs sized arby,and introducing cap warfare, but a 6/6/6 layout is a dream we will never have so lets be constructive. The arbitrator has the most mids of any non-shield tanking cruiser in the game. It has more mids than any Gallente or Minmatar cruiser. Giving an Arbypoc 4 mids is just frankly stupid. Its like giving the scorpion 2 lows because "it shouldnt be able to fit EW and a strong armor tank". The problem is that in doing so it kills the ability of the ship to do its primary job. Which would be turret jam. As well the larger number of highs would just open up the ship to more neutralizer abuse. ESPECIALY WITH A NOS/NEUT DRAIN AMOUNT bonus. You think the dominix is nasty now? Just wait till you see one with two more high slots 50% more damaging heavy NOS/neuts and the same slot of tank. Oh, and the drone-bay is too small for a drone battleship. 6/6/6 4 launchers, 4 turrets 300 m^3 drone bay Lots of CPU, less powergrid +Tracking Disruptor Optimal Range +Drone Damage/HP The 6/6/6 Arbyapoc was my suggestion in this forum about 3 months ago and it definitely gets my vote. It should have similar powergrid as the scorpion with slightly inferior CPU. I disgree on the 300 m3 drone bay -- it should be 225 m3 max. Unlike the domi, it should not have the ability to send wave after wave of heavy drones.
Von Zarovick The Collective Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2007.02.24 21:02:00 - [57] If i know ccp right, they will put 10% mining laser duration or something as usefull. Signature removed - please email us to find out why - Jacques([email protected])
adriaans Amarr The Sirius Cybernetics	Posted - 2007.02.24 22:06:00 - [58] sniping or missiles --sig-- Knowledge is power!
Kara Kaprica Minmatar Warspite Developments	Posted - 2007.02.24 23:43:00 - [59] They wont give it an Optimal range bonus or large lasers as it will be exactly like when everyone was taking the **** with Pulse in fleet combat at 70-100k. Those were the days when everybody flew an armageddon, and an optiamal range bonus will turn the apoc into that armageddon, and the 25% rof will be conteracted by the 8th gun and lower range ammo. As much as i loved it, the Universe doesnt need that kind of ship back in the game. Always Outnumbered. Never Outgunned.
Nyxus GALAXIAN Rule of Three	Posted - 2007.02.25 01:41:00 - [60] To those saying "make it a tank boat". Why? What could the Apoc with a resist bonus offer that the Abaddon could not? With only 7 lows wouldn't it always be sub-par unless it got a resist + amount bonus, which to me is more suitable to a T2 ship? I don't want to see a clone of the Geddon, and I don't want to see a clone of the Abaddon. I want something unique, yet distinctly Amarr which is why I based the concept off the Bhaalgorn (Amarr cap tech + Matari webbing tech). The only problem with that is that 4 unbonused (or just cap bonus) lasers have TERRIBLE dps for a battleship. It would NEED an enlarged dronebay in the same fashion that the Typhoon has a larger dronebay than average for Matari just to be competative in a purely dps sense. Nyxus The Gallente ideals of Freedom, Liberty and Equality will be met by the Amarr realities of Lasers, Armor and Battleships.
Tulisin Dragonflame	Posted - 2007.02.25 03:39:00 - [61] Problem with apoc droneboat is that it is tier 2, while the domi is tier 1, the second the apoc gets drone bonuses, Gallente are now second-best in drones, especially if the other bonus is non weapon-based (allowing an even more effective total-drone setup than the domi).
Xendie Celestial Apocalypse Insurgency	Posted - 2007.02.25 03:49:00 - [62] drone boat with split 8slot and 6/4 missiles and guns 5 mids and 6 lows with a drone bonus. would be nice and much more versatile and more khanid then anything amarr got now. Originally by: "darth solo" bad men came, bad men didnt go home, bad men left containers.
Xendie Celestial Apocalypse Insurgency	Posted - 2007.02.25 03:51:00 - [63] Originally by: Tulisin Dragonflame Problem with apoc droneboat is that it is tier 2, while the domi is tier 1, the second the apoc gets drone bonuses, Gallente are now second-best in drones, especially if the other bonus is non weapon-based (allowing an even more effective total-drone setup than the domi). the domi is as you say a tier 1 ship. and the bonuses and drone bay amount can be modified to just hold 5heavies and 5 lights wich would be less then a domi anyway. Originally by: "darth solo" bad men came, bad men didnt go home, bad men left containers.
Mastin Dragonfly Amarr	Posted - 2007.02.25 11:19:00 - [64] Whatever it's gonna end up to, there is also the Navy Issue, which should be a fair amount stronger. Making it a drone or missile ship, or even combined could lead to a very, very strong mission ship.
Lysseth Caldari Reflex.	Posted - 2007.02.25 11:38:00 - [65] It'd be pretty neat to see an amarrian tempest. I'd imagine that the upcoming changes are going to indefinately reduce the capacitor consumption or maybe even the PG cost's to lasers. So, with that said i'd love to see something like the following: 5% Damage per level 5% RoF Per level (6)5/5/8 175m3 Drone space. It hits harder then the abaddon , but nowhere near it's tanking ability. It tanks harder then the geddon, but nowhere near it's damaging ability. And it still hold's true to the amarrian tank and spank philosophy while remaining extremely versatile which the current apoc does not. -Lysseth Merp!
Goumindong Amarr Merch Industrial We Are Nice Guys	Posted - 2007.02.25 12:45:00 - [66] Originally by: Lysseth It'd be pretty neat to see an amarrian tempest. I'd imagine that the upcoming changes are going to indefinately reduce the capacitor consumption or maybe even the PG cost's to lasers. So, with that said i'd love to see something like the following: 5% Damage per level 5% RoF Per level (6)5/5/8 175m3 Drone space. It hits harder then the abaddon , but nowhere near it's tanking ability. It tanks harder then the geddon, but nowhere near it's damaging ability. And it still hold's true to the amarrian tank and spank philosophy while remaining extremely versatile which the current apoc does not. That is one utterly broken and ridiculous design. It hits nearly as hard as a geddon and has 5 mids. ---------------------------------------- Thou Shalt "Pew Pew"

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