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Novacula Vindicta	Posted - 2007.02.23 18:24:00 - [1] OK ill try this againà This is the problem, we have a good deal of players exploiting the alt feature of the game by building char just to steal ore and wreaks from other charÆs. Now while I understand that thieves are part of the game and even make it more interesting I do not agree with the idea that someone can steal what I work for with no consequence but a short agg counter they can avoid by simply docking and logging. And that is what has been happing. We have a great deal of players who build a thief char as an alt, keep there alt in a newb corp and just use them to jump out in a hauler steal your ore return to there station and log. We as miners have no chance to respond to this the agg counter does no good unless we are waiting or setting traps for thieves. Now instead of just whining about it I have a solution. The agg counter is fine but how about also setting it so if you steal you also cannot dock until your agg counters up? Once the thief has docked and logged we have no way of identifying who there main char is that is stealing from us. I would love to here other ideas on this I really believe this is an exploit of the game.
The Pointless Gallente Lacks a Point Ltd	Posted - 2007.02.23 18:30:00 - [2] Edited by: The Pointless on 23/02/2007 18:33:33 It's not an exploit. Ore theft is legal in EULA terms, as is using an Alt to do it. An exploit is the abuse of an unintentional feature such as a glitch of some sort. Now, you have two options to combat Ore theft: 1) Stop using Jetcans. Get a Secure Container or 5 and use them instead. 2) Just pop him! Get a friend to gang with you and lie in wait (Cloaked possibly?) and the next time the theif swipes something, scram and nos the loser and pop! ----------------------------------------------- I'd rather be a jack of all trades than a master of one.
Name Lips	Posted - 2007.02.23 18:36:00 - [3] Put a bounty on his ass. Hard stealing ore when your ship keeps getting ganked by bounty hunters.
darklegionca Caldari Bluetech Corp	Posted - 2007.02.23 18:39:00 - [4] bountys are just a waste of your own isk as you wouldnt get it back ------------------------------------ darklegionca - One name. One legend.
Kumu Honua	Posted - 2007.02.23 18:42:00 - [5] Nor would a bounty hunter as the ore thief would either have an alt or a friend pod him if it's worth doing, or it would be totally ignored if it was a pathetic amount. Bounties do nothing.
Snake Doctor Guardians of Hell's Gate Tactical Narcotics Team	Posted - 2007.02.23 18:45:00 - [6] evemail me. I like to play with ore thieves..... I'll do it for free....
Mastin Dragonfly Amarr	Posted - 2007.02.23 19:09:00 - [7] I'm not an ore thief, nor a miner but I find it odd that you willingly empty the contents of your cargobay into space and then complain when someone else takes it away.
Kerfira	Posted - 2007.02.23 19:19:00 - [8] Please don't re-open this issue. It has been discussed to death a gazillion times before (do a search for it on EVE-Search), the latest one a multi-page thread a couple of weeks ago. To sum it up: 1. You (the miner) is abusing an unintended game mechanic (yes, CCP has acknowledged that jet-cans were never supposed to be used for mining). 2. They (the thieves) are taking advantage of you abusing game mechanics to get rich. 3. You have the right to shoot at the thieves. If you choose not to use that right, don't whine about it. 4. EVE is not 'My Little Pony In Space'. It is a game where there basically are no rules except what concord enforces. Life is hard, then you die..... General advice: Stop whining!
Renfus FM Corp	Posted - 2007.02.23 19:22:00 - [9] Honestly the only thing you can do is join a corp and mine in gangs.. miner/haulers and a couple people running Security... all ya need is a fast targeting tackler that can scramble & jam and a Damage dealer... even if the theif is in a corp, his corp mates can't help him once he steals from you.. BUT if he flips the ore to his can and you take it back the person taking the ore back will be fair game to the theifs corp.
Gnulpie Minmatar Miner Tech	Posted - 2007.02.23 19:26:00 - [10] The agression counter is not long enough. And the higher the sec rating of the system, the longer the counter should run. 1.0 system = 1+ hour counter, 0.5 = 15 mins, unchanged. Everything else in between.

Name Lips	Posted - 2007.02.23 19:30:00 - [11] I don't think you shouldn't be able to dock with an aggression counter, but I do think it should stop counting down while you're docked (or logged off) and only resume counting down after you're back in space.
darklegionca Caldari Bluetech Corp	Posted - 2007.02.23 19:35:00 - [12] Originally by: Kerfira Edited by: Kerfira on 23/02/2007 19:16:17 Please don't re-open this issue. It has been discussed to death a gazillion times before (do a search for it on EVE-Search), the latest one a multi-page thread a couple of weeks ago. To sum it up: 1. You (the miner) is abusing an unintended game mechanic (yes, CCP has acknowledged that jet-cans were never supposed to be used for mining). 2. They (the thieves) are taking advantage of you abusing game mechanics to get rich. 3. You have the right to shoot at the thieves. If you choose not to use that right, don't whine about them stealing from you. 4. EVE is not 'My Little Pony In Space'. It is a game where there basically are no rules except what concord enforces. Life is hard, then you die..... ok then what are the jet cans actualy to be used for in game adverts for your corp i dont think so ------------------------------------ darklegionca - One name. One legend.
The Pointless Gallente Lacks a Point Ltd	Posted - 2007.02.23 19:48:00 - [13] Originally by: darklegionca Originally by: Kerfira Edited by: Kerfira on 23/02/2007 19:16:17 Please don't re-open this issue. It has been discussed to death a gazillion times before (do a search for it on EVE-Search), the latest one a multi-page thread a couple of weeks ago. To sum it up: 1. You (the miner) is abusing an unintended game mechanic (yes, CCP has acknowledged that jet-cans were never supposed to be used for mining). 2. They (the thieves) are taking advantage of you abusing game mechanics to get rich. 3. You have the right to shoot at the thieves. If you choose not to use that right, don't whine about them stealing from you. 4. EVE is not 'My Little Pony In Space'. It is a game where there basically are no rules except what concord enforces. Life is hard, then you die..... ok then what are the jet cans actualy to be used for in game adverts for your corp i dont think so No, it's for making some room in an emergency (like when you find you have no room for that sweet module you just found) ----------------------------------------------- I'd rather be a jack of all trades than a master of one.
CodeR70 Gallente The Dutch	Posted - 2007.02.23 19:55:00 - [14] Originally by: Novacula Vindicta I do not agree with the idea that someone can steal what I work for I see this a lot, but what do you mean with "work"? Is that sitting in a belt and hit the miner button once in a while? Dont get me wrong, I'm a miner myself sometimes, but mining is the least I consider "work". You can however make it interesting for yourself by having a hauler or just not mine in a can and travel up and down to the station. Then you may even consider it "work". Seriously, it's very easy to avoid thieves robbing you, but most miners are to lazy I guess.
Name Lips	Posted - 2007.02.23 19:59:00 - [15] Originally by: The Pointless Originally by: darklegionca Originally by: Kerfira Edited by: Kerfira on 23/02/2007 19:16:17 Please don't re-open this issue. It has been discussed to death a gazillion times before (do a search for it on EVE-Search), the latest one a multi-page thread a couple of weeks ago. To sum it up: 1. You (the miner) is abusing an unintended game mechanic (yes, CCP has acknowledged that jet-cans were never supposed to be used for mining). 2. They (the thieves) are taking advantage of you abusing game mechanics to get rich. 3. You have the right to shoot at the thieves. If you choose not to use that right, don't whine about them stealing from you. 4. EVE is not 'My Little Pony In Space'. It is a game where there basically are no rules except what concord enforces. Life is hard, then you die..... ok then what are the jet cans actualy to be used for in game adverts for your corp i dont think so No, it's for making some room in an emergency (like when you find you have no room for that sweet module you just found) Every now and then I have some cargo I just don't want to drop. So I can it and leave it floating. If nothing else it'll amuse somebody else to find a can of refugees or something.
Adunh Slavy Ammatar Trade Syndicate	Posted - 2007.02.23 20:16:00 - [16] Originally by: Kerfira 1. You (the miner) is abusing an unintended game mechanic (yes, CCP has acknowledged that jet-cans were never supposed to be used for mining). Can someone please show me the refrence to where CCP says this? I see people write it, but never see a refrence to this ruling. And if it is an "unintended" game mechanic, does that constitute an exploit, and if it does, how is the thief any better than the person that used the jet can in the first place? Also, why are jet cans so big, and why can you put more stuff in a jet can if the sole purpose was to jettison unwanted cargo? Doesn't it seem likely that the player would know what they wanted to throw away the first time? As to the OP, it happens, until you can blow them up, learn to live with it or find a way to avoid it, or go do it your self, until of course someone blows you up. -AS
Bish Ounen Gallente Omni-Core Freedom Fighters	Posted - 2007.02.23 20:19:00 - [17] I had this happen to me. ONE TIME. Me and a buddy were out mining, sharing a Jet Can. He would go back and get his Indy ship periodically and empty the can. An ore thief came out and stole some ore from us to bait us into a trap and ended up blowing both our ships (thankfully, they were only inexpensive T1 cruisers). I learned from that mistake the same lesson you should: Use Secure cans to mine with. Even Giant cans only take Anchoring 1 to anchor down, and one load of Kernite (or similarly valuable ore) for each can will pay for it. After that it's all pure profit. Oh, and in case anyone doesn't think "what goes around comes around", Not one day went by and that very same pirate (and some buddies) tried to bubble a 0.4 system gate to highsec. OCFF came in, drove off all his buddies, and podded his butt while he had no less than 4 implants in. All told he lost nearly 1 Bil isk worth of ships and implants. He stole only about 1300 Kernite from me, and destroyed a cheap cruiser. Life's a BlTCH, but revenge is sweet. (p.s. I joined OCFF less than 2 weeks later.)
Voron Keithel	Posted - 2007.02.23 21:01:00 - [18] Originally by: Name Lips Put a bounty on his ass. Hard stealing ore when your ship keeps getting ganked by bounty hunters. If someone's got a bounty on them, can anyone attack them without worrying about concord or do you still have to catch them in lowsec?
The Pointless Gallente Lacks a Point Ltd	Posted - 2007.02.23 21:07:00 - [19] Originally by: Voron Keithel Originally by: Name Lips Put a bounty on his ass. Hard stealing ore when your ship keeps getting ganked by bounty hunters. If someone's got a bounty on them, can anyone attack them without worrying about concord or do you still have to catch them in lowsec? They still have to catch them in Low-sec, unless the bounty's in a system he's been banned from due to his sec status... ----------------------------------------------- I'd rather be a jack of all trades than a master of one.
MassonA Caldari coracao ardente Privateer Alliance	Posted - 2007.02.23 21:08:00 - [20] Originally by: Mastin Dragonfly I find it odd that you willingly empty the contents of your cargobay into space and then complain when someone else takes it away. end ___________________________

Popsikle Shadows of the Dead Aftermath Alliance	Posted - 2007.02.23 21:13:00 - [21] Last I heard from CCP recycling alts for scamming/ore thieving/ect was a warnable (maybe banable) offense. I dont remember where I saw that maybe in the Yarr section of these forums, but if someone just keeps recycling alts to steal ore I think you can petition it. I dont remember, so dont quote me. __________________________________________ -= We Fly for our people =- -= I fly for Blood =-
Illyria Ambri Caldari	Posted - 2007.02.23 21:18:00 - [22] Originally by: Mastin Dragonfly I'm not an ore thief, nor a miner but I find it odd that you willingly empty the contents of your cargobay into space and then complain when someone else takes it away. Can I follow you around and steal anything you ever put down? ------------ This is not War... This is pest control - Dalek Sek Happiness is a warm railgun, Love is a stocked missle launcher. Sexual extacy is watching that NME Battleship go boom. "Will i
Mastin Dragonfly Amarr	Posted - 2007.02.23 21:25:00 - [23] Edited by: Mastin Dragonfly on 23/02/2007 21:22:19 Originally by: Illyria Ambri Originally by: Mastin Dragonfly I'm not an ore thief, nor a miner but I find it odd that you willingly empty the contents of your cargobay into space and then complain when someone else takes it away. Can I follow you around and steal anything you ever put down? Feel free... But like I said, I'm not a miner, I don't jettison unless I actually want to get rid of it.
Illyria Ambri Caldari	Posted - 2007.02.23 21:47:00 - [24] Originally by: Mastin Dragonfly Edited by: Mastin Dragonfly on 23/02/2007 21:22:19 Originally by: Illyria Ambri Originally by: Mastin Dragonfly I'm not an ore thief, nor a miner but I find it odd that you willingly empty the contents of your cargobay into space and then complain when someone else takes it away. Can I follow you around and steal anything you ever put down? Feel free... But like I said, I'm not a miner, I don't jettison unless I actually want to get rid of it. I never said in game ------------ This is not War... This is pest control - Dalek Sek Happiness is a warm railgun, Love is a stocked missle launcher. Sexual extacy is watching that NME Battleship go boom. "Will i
Aldirien Rathmore	Posted - 2007.02.24 00:15:00 - [25] Just as a related question, since I have never encountered an ore thief. What kind of ships do these hi-sec ore thieves run around in trying to bait people with? I realize probably all types but are cruisers the most common, or battleships or just combat equipped frigates?
Mastin Dragonfly Amarr	Posted - 2007.02.24 00:38:00 - [26] Originally by: Illyria Ambri Originally by: Mastin Dragonfly Edited by: Mastin Dragonfly on 23/02/2007 21:22:19 Originally by: Illyria Ambri Originally by: Mastin Dragonfly I'm not an ore thief, nor a miner but I find it odd that you willingly empty the contents of your cargobay into space and then complain when someone else takes it away. Can I follow you around and steal anything you ever put down? Feel free... But like I said, I'm not a miner, I don't jettison unless I actually want to get rid of it. I never said in game Ah, real life analogies, they always work well... As you may know, RL is filled with thieves as well, and any well-thinking person takes precautions when caring around valuable stuff. Dumping ore into space would be like putting your days work out on the street hoping everyone is a decent person and they won't nick it behind your back or just take it by force. You could dump all your work on the public street and hope the police will come stand around it and protect it, but more likely the police will come to tell you to clean up your mess if they don't just fine you right out for littering. Another analogy: if you park your car you have the choice to lock it or to not lock it. Weither it's locked or not, it's still a crime to steal it. Do you do the sensible thing and take precautions (locked, car alarm, etc) or do you just leave it open and then complain when it's gone?
Ky Vatta Caldari Empire Mining and Industrial Taskforce	Posted - 2007.02.24 00:41:00 - [27] Edited by: Ky Vatta on 24/02/2007 00:39:16 Originally by: Aldirien Rathmore Just as a related question, since I have never encountered an ore thief. What kind of ships do these hi-sec ore thieves run around in trying to bait people with? I realize probably all types but are cruisers the most common, or battleships or just combat equipped frigates? They often use cheap frigates to bait people into attacking them, then swap to a HAC (or similar ship) to gank the miners.... Real ore thieves are in Indies.... --- CEO
Giles665	Posted - 2007.02.24 03:36:00 - [28] It's all pretty simple. A barge has a few spare mid slots (especially the Hulk and you SHOULD be using a hulk if you are even half arsed about mining). Fit a booster a web and a scram. When the thief grabs your ore web him and scram him and let you tech 2 drones rip him to pieces. THe tank on th Hulk is more than sufficient to withstand a BC or below. If they look scarier than that just let them take the ore. You can also just whack a combat alt at a safe in system. Then the barge just scrams and webs the target and the combat ship can warp in for the kill. Nice and easy fixed.
Menod Penter Gallente	Posted - 2007.02.24 03:53:00 - [29] Originally by: Aldirien Rathmore Just as a related question, since I have never encountered an ore thief. What kind of ships do these hi-sec ore thieves run around in trying to bait people with? I realize probably all types but are cruisers the most common, or battleships or just combat equipped frigates? I use my Iteron IV for the actual theft of the ore. If a miner has the 'roids to fire at my Iteron I usally come back with a little something more to show him I'll be taking any ore he leaves out in a can :) Have a Nice Day :) Menod Penter - Mayor of Rens
Asimov Andies Gallente Red Blade Industries	Posted - 2007.02.24 04:01:00 - [30] I didn't read the entire thread, but felt I needed to throw a comment in anyway. The funniest thing in the world is to see a hauler get popped by a retriever. I personally fit a warp scram on it and wait for the stupid thief to warp in, lock them, wait for them to steal my ore, warp jam them then kill them with drones. they don't expect it and it is hilarious. Now I personally steal ore from farmers, but that in my opinion is different. I classify a farmer as a miner in a noob corp utilizing anything but a frig. -=#=- Sig removed, lacks Eve-related content. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] -Targoviste Originally by: High Sierra note to self - don't ever provide ANYONE with quoteable material EVER AGAIN.



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