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Wizard
Without Reason FATAL Alliance
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Posted - 2007.02.26 17:31:00 -
[1]
Is there any kind of idea as to how long till nanos etc get the stacking nerf that they so desperatly require?
I read in the dev blog that the devs want people to be commited to a fight 100% once engaged and i whole heartedly aggree with this.
Obviously things like sensor damps/inertia stabs and nosferatos also fall into the overpowered category, would just like some clarification on the timescale of all these FIXS to be implemented?
Getting tired of trying to pvp only to watch as bs orbit at insane speed whilst nossing stupidly with no risk to themselves whatsoever.
Jus planning on going afk for a few weeks or whatever till it gets sorted is all.
I fully expect the trolls who forum ***** constantly and like/use overpowered setups to give the informative "whine whine whine " replys, but im just a guy who wants to pvp which means both parties getting a enjoyable experiance out of it.
Thks in advance to all the adults that read and post replys befitting of the title " adult ".
Without Reason corp website
^^looking for a PvP corp with little stress then |
Kehmor
Caldari PAK
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Posted - 2007.02.26 17:34:00 -
[2]
1st and IBTL
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CharlieMurphy
Amarr Viziam
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Posted - 2007.02.26 17:45:00 -
[3]
Edited by: CharlieMurphy on 26/02/2007 17:43:52
Originally by: Wizard I read in the dev blog that the devs want people to be commited to a fight 100% once engaged and i whole heartedly aggree with this.
you sure you really want the game to go that way ? im sure i dont and im not convinced that nanos need to be nerfed in any way at all they have been in the game and functioning the way they do sinse i started playing if there really was a problem with nanos it would have shown up long b4 now, its not nanos that are broken the problem is elsewhere
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Haffrage
Less than Ideal
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Posted - 2007.02.26 17:51:00 -
[4]
Originally by: CharlieMurphy Edited by: CharlieMurphy on 26/02/2007 17:46:18
Originally by: Wizard I read in the dev blog that the devs want people to be commited to a fight 100% once engaged and i whole heartedly aggree with this.
you sure you really want the game to go that way ? im sure i dont and im not convinced that nanos need to be nerfed in any way at all they have been in the game and functioning the way they do sinse i started playing if there really was a problem with nanos it would have shown up long b4 now, its not nanos that are broken and the problem, if there even is one, is elsewhere
speed is a legitimate tactic and if you bite off more than you can chew you should be able to disengage
Tell that to the pilot being ganked by the nano ship. What, that's their fault because they didn't fit a full nano setup themselves? -----
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Anaalys Fluuterby
Caldari
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Posted - 2007.02.26 18:09:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Haffrage Tell that to the pilot being ganked by the nano ship. What, that's their fault because they didn't fit a full nano setup themselves?
There are a thousand ways to gank someone in this game that have nothing to do with nanos. You could just as easily scream "Nerf ECM more!!!! I didn't have ECCM fitted and got perma-jammed by a scorpion with 6 ECM modules".
<-----------> oveur --> Eve is PRIMARILY a PvP game.
Primarily != 100% |
Haffrage
Less than Ideal
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Posted - 2007.02.26 18:32:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Anaalys Fluuterby
Originally by: Haffrage Tell that to the pilot being ganked by the nano ship. What, that's their fault because they didn't fit a full nano setup themselves?
There are a thousand ways to gank someone in this game that have nothing to do with nanos. You could just as easily scream "Nerf ECM more!!!! I didn't have ECCM fitted and got perma-jammed by a scorpion with 6 ECM modules".
And I have a funny hat. How are either of these facts relevant to the nano ship argument?
Hint: they're not -----
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Plutoinum
German Cyberdome Corp Cult of War
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Posted - 2007.02.26 18:35:00 -
[7]
Edited by: Plutoinum on 26/02/2007 18:31:57 Hope the nano nerf takes some time. I was always to lazy to train large tech-2 drones. In a few days I'm ready and get a nanophoon, too. Want also to be flamed in local. _______ I came, I read, I lol'ed. |
Turin
Caldari RONA Deepspace Rule of Three
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Posted - 2007.02.26 18:37:00 -
[8]
People who reply in favor of the nano ships basically are nano ship flyers who dont want their solowtfpwnmobile taken away from them. They are to lazy to get kills in any real way that might risk them.
Hint: Remember when CCP took away dual MWD's? Why did they do that? To NERF BATTLESHIP SPEED.
Why should this be any differant.
Yes, you CAN fit to kill a nanoship. The problem is, that in doing so, you wont kill anything else.
so right now you have two choices when fitting for combat.
Fit to kill nanoships.
Fit to kill everything else.
My caracal was slammed by a nanophoon doing 15,000 KMS. It booted me over 100kms into space away from the gate.
THATS STUPID.
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CharlieMurphy
Amarr Viziam
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Posted - 2007.02.26 19:02:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Turin People who reply in favor of the nano ships basically are nano ship flyers who dont want their solowtfpwnmobile taken away from them. They are to lazy to get kills in any real way that might risk them.
i am not for or against nano ships but i am very much against nerfing nanos
Originally by: Wizard Is there any kind of idea as to how long till nanos etc get the stacking nerf that they so desperatly require?
nanos dont need a stacking penalty and if etc means i-stabs then they already have it i have never flown a nano ship into a serious fight but just messing about i have managed to get a phoon up to a little bit less than 4k with a t2 mwd no rigs and no implants i came to the conclusion that nano bs are only good for cheap ganks on unwary people and unless they are fitted with with a faction mwd backed up with rigs and snake implants they arnt half of what they get made out to be
it seems that a nano phoons real power is not in its speed but more in its ability to upset people that die to one to start bleating on these forums about nerfing nanos.. the nano module needs to be left well alone as it affects all ships not just extream fitted bs
Originally by: Turin My caracal was slammed by a nanophoon doing 15,000 KMS. It booted me over 100kms into space away from the gate
im guessing this was in empire? sounds more like you got greifed and that has nothing to do with combat balance issues the thought of your poor caracal speeding away from the gate is making me chuckle tbh
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Turin
Caldari RONA Deepspace Rule of Three
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Posted - 2007.02.26 19:17:00 -
[10]
Originally by: CharlieMurphy
Originally by: Turin People who reply in favor of the nano ships basically are nano ship flyers who dont want their solowtfpwnmobile taken away from them. They are to lazy to get kills in any real way that might risk them.
i am not for or against nano ships but i am very much against nerfing nanos
Originally by: Wizard Is there any kind of idea as to how long till nanos etc get the stacking nerf that they so desperatly require?
nanos dont need a stacking penalty and if etc means i-stabs then they already have it i have never flown a nano ship into a serious fight but just messing about i have managed to get a phoon up to a little bit less than 4k with a t2 mwd no rigs and no implants i came to the conclusion that nano bs are only good for cheap ganks on unwary people and unless they are fitted with with a faction mwd backed up with rigs and snake implants they arnt half of what they get made out to be
it seems that a nano phoons real power is not in its speed but more in its ability to upset people that die to one to start bleating on these forums about nerfing nanos.. the nano module needs to be left well alone as it affects all ships not just extream fitted bs
Originally by: Turin My caracal was slammed by a nanophoon doing 15,000 KMS. It booted me over 100kms into space away from the gate
im guessing this was in empire? sounds more like you got greifed and that has nothing to do with combat balance issues the thought of your poor caracal speeding away from the gate is making me chuckle tbh
Then one question, if speed doesnt need to be nerfed, why did they nerf dual MWD's so long ago?
And actually no, it wasnt in empire, it got nailed at a gate camp in 0.0. :) I was about to align and warp, when a phoon, that was about 70km away from me, slammed me. It actually was quute funny, I had to give the guy props. It was an awesome slam and cost me the ship.
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CharlieMurphy
Amarr Viziam
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Posted - 2007.02.26 19:23:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Turin Then one question, if speed doesnt need to be nerfed, why did they nerf dual MWD's so long ago?
i cant speak for the devs obviously but if i had to guess i would say its because with 2 mwd you get to go really fast but still have your lows open for tank or gank
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Turin
Caldari RONA Deepspace Rule of Three
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Posted - 2007.02.26 19:52:00 -
[12]
Originally by: CharlieMurphy
Originally by: Turin Then one question, if speed doesnt need to be nerfed, why did they nerf dual MWD's so long ago?
i cant speak for the devs obviously but if i had to guess i would say its because with 2 mwd you get to go really fast but still have your lows open for tank or gank
No. the reason the Devs stated was that Battleships were going far faster than they had ever intended. That was a CCP stated reason.
So, carry that forward to the nano ships. I see no differance.
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Milonia
Caldari APEX Unlimited
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Posted - 2007.02.26 20:21:00 -
[13]
I REALLY hope they speed up the Nano-ship nerf.
I got to experiance first hand the retardedness of a BS (Machrial I thinkit was) going 7000 m/s while our Intys couldn't catch him to hold him down. Our Inty pilots are good and highly skilled but couldn't tackle him.
And I am to understand that nano-BSes are very weak once you can tackle them. But how the heck can you tackle them if a tackler can't match thier speed?
Not only is it a game mechanics issue but it is INCREDIBLY DUMB for a massive ship like a BS to be outrunning an Interceptor.
Everyone in support of nanos as is has one and doesn't want thier ownmobile to be nerfed thats all.
NERF the NANOS!! ============================== Milonia Combat Pilot of the ACV Acadia (Moa) I'm new so be nice!
"Talent is a gift... training opens the Box." |
Damien Smith
Turbulent
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Posted - 2007.02.26 20:35:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Milonia I REALLY hope they speed up the Nano-ship nerf.
I got to experiance first hand the retardedness of a BS (Machrial I thinkit was) going 7000 m/s while our Intys couldn't catch him to hold him down. Our Inty pilots are good and highly skilled but couldn't tackle him.
And I am to understand that nano-BSes are very weak once you can tackle them. But how the heck can you tackle them if a tackler can't match thier speed?
Not only is it a game mechanics issue but it is INCREDIBLY DUMB for a massive ship like a BS to be outrunning an Interceptor.
Everyone in support of nanos as is has one and doesn't want thier ownmobile to be nerfed thats all.
NERF the NANOS!!
7k? We had a 15k/s nanomachariel come through one of our camps.
The thing about the current nano/istab setups is that it has no counter except for another nano/istab ship.
Any webbers, including ones fitted to a minmatar recon are useless, as the battleship's momentum just carries it far out of web range and it just accelerates again.
Nano ships in their old style were ok. They took massive amounts of skill and funding to get to be uber. Now any noob can fly one and think he's 1337.
Hmm, kind of like the old probe system where only well practiced players got the kills, and the new one where any noob with a bought covert alt can get good results.
What's next? T2 weapons on noobships as standard?
----------- Join channel 'Turby' or die! (bring pie) Damien's our #1 subscriber!! - CCP |
Nanobotter Mk2
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Posted - 2007.02.26 20:53:00 -
[15]
"Tell that to the pilot being ganked by the nano ship. What, that's their fault because they didn't fit a full nano setup themselves? "
Ya right stop the BS , why havent you been posting to nerf inty's? Ya you know the same thing. So tell that to the guy in the slower ship being ganked by the inty...
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Damien Smith
Turbulent
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Posted - 2007.02.26 20:55:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Nanobotter Mk2 "Tell that to the pilot being ganked by the nano ship. What, that's their fault because they didn't fit a full nano setup themselves? "
Ya right stop the BS , why havent you been posting to nerf inty's? Ya you know the same thing. So tell that to the guy in the slower ship being ganked by the inty...
You mean the paper thin, easily webbed due to their low momentum, killable by anyone with a clue inties? Those kind?
Yeah, those suck, nerf them... ----------- Join channel 'Turby' or die! (bring pie) Damien's our #1 subscriber!! - CCP |
Nanobotter Mk2
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Posted - 2007.02.26 20:57:00 -
[17]
"People who reply in favor of the nano ships basically are nano ship flyers who dont want their solowtfpwnmobile taken away from them. They are to lazy to get kills in any real way that might risk them.
Hint: Remember when CCP took away dual MWD's? Why did they do that? To NERF BATTLESHIP SPEED.
Why should this be any differant.
Yes, you CAN fit to kill a nanoship. The problem is, that in doing so, you wont kill anything else.
so right now you have two choices when fitting for combat.
Fit to kill nanoships.
Fit to kill everything else."
Man so many frigging hypocrites posting. You know the same can be said for anything in eve. you know those pve players you seem to feel you have the right to solowtfbbq when ever you feel like it? Ya well they can fit for their pve or fit for pvp, and that has been 100% okay since day 1.
Further more you can fit to kill inty's or fit to kill BS You can fit to kill frigates or fit to kill BS.
The only whines we got here are people used to flying cheap disposible fast ships who are no longer 100% safe when jumping on a BS, END OF STORY.
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Krugerrand
0utbreak
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Posted - 2007.02.26 20:59:00 -
[18]
Several nano ships have died today...they don't last very long.
Combat isn't meant to be 1v1
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Nanobotter Mk2
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Posted - 2007.02.26 21:01:00 -
[19]
"You mean the paper thin, easily webbed due to their low momentum, killable by anyone with a clue inties? Those kind?
Yeah, those suck, nerf them..."
Ya just like those paper thin NANO BS, which are also easily webbed and killable by anyone with a clue nanoBS those kind. Still hearin the same whine, waaaaah I can;t fly my nearly 100% safe and yet ready to tackle anything generic inty ship. Waaaaaah why should I have to specialize my set up and be weak vs other oppenents to catch and kill a specialized set up opponent.
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Milonia
Caldari APEX Unlimited
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Posted - 2007.02.26 21:14:00 -
[20]
What a dumb argument. YOU CAN'T WEB THEM! Not with an Inty because THEY don't go that fast! The nano-BS has to screw up to be killed. What other ship does that sound like? Hmmmm unkillable unless they screw up? Oh yeah! A titan! ROFL!
My experiance with the Nano-Mach wasn't 1v1. It was 6 v around the same amount. We were flying a fast attack force with a BC as our biggest ship. A few Cruisers (I was in a Moa) and most were in Intys and AF. Our covops Manticore spotted our target Macharial and we warped to it and our FC called it primary. We started firing and then he started zipping around at the aforementioned 7k m/s and none of us could hit him. He kept flying out of range and then back again so we would have to relock. By the time we called another target his friends warped in and we had to skitdattle.
It was the most BROKEN and UNIMMERSIVE gameplay I have yet to experiance in an MMO. It doesn't make any sence for a BS to fly faster then a Speedy Frig (Inty). A civilization with the tech to make a BS fly that fast can make a ship MUCH smaller fly faster. But NOT in EVE because of a BROKEN game mechanic.
FIX the NANOS! ============================== Milonia Combat Pilot of the ACV Acadia (Moa) I'm new so be nice!
"Talent is a gift... training opens the Box." |
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Pepperami
Art of War Cult of War
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Posted - 2007.02.26 21:57:00 -
[21]
Webber drones are very effective, I can tell you from both sides of experience.
As I said before in other threads, instead of nerfing the tactic by removing it, they should create better counters, such as longer range weaker webbers or more capable webber drones, just for instance.
Also it should be noted that the primary use of nanophoons is to kill npc'ers/travellers who are both easy to kill and full of whines/smack in equal measure whichever way they die.
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Ragornok
Multiversal Enterprise Inc. Privateer Alliance
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Posted - 2007.02.26 21:57:00 -
[22]
And that is the problem, is that they just can't be webbed down to viable speeds even if you do have the gear to try it.
Last time we engaged one in a serious attempt, we had a rapier and huggin, both with dual 90% webbers. A hawk, also with a 90% webber. And 5 webber drones from one of our BS pilots . So that's 5 full webbers and 5 drones, and it STILL didn't slow down enough to actually fight the thing. The inertia just carries them too well, and while you do cap the maximum speed it takes far far too long to actually slow down.
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Cent 02
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Posted - 2007.02.26 22:35:00 -
[23]
The question is should a BS be able to out run an Inty? and how do you catch a nano BS ship unless you are in one yourself?
My experience of Nano BS is that, they tend not to engage superior numbers because they know that they have no tank, and they are more likely to get caught, when we have engaged either 1 or a few of em, i get the fleet closely packed, that way if they come close they are likely to get hit by every one, but as we all know we are not allways out in groups.
One of the latest tactics i have seen from the Nano BS pilot, is they will fly accompanied by co-vert opps, who will scan the system for Ratters and miners, and once the nano BS gets you; you are usaully dead, the only ship that i believe they are afraid of is the Dommi, since they have to get in scrambling range at least 20km, then a tanked dommi can unleash its own NOS and its drones, and i would recall my normal drones and deploy sentry's which will not miss a large ship, and with a tank and lots of Nos you will out last them! they will end up with drawing. This is assuming you are fighting one! I know this works because i had one try it on me and he withdrew he was in a Nano Dommi travelling at aprox 7km/sec which is ridiculous.
whats the point of using Intys when you can use BS to tackle! the introduction of rigs has made these ships even more formidable.
The Nano Dommi i mentioned above has killed many peeps in our alliance, we have tried every way to get him and we have failed! on one occassion we had 3 intys get near him, 2 of em got him he just nossed em instantly and got away before our BSs had time to even lock him!
On another occascion we dropped a few bubbles round the gate, he turned up, before we even had a chance to lock him he was like 200km away! in a space of a 6/8secs!, and even if we had are own nano BS, if he gets a slight start its still going to be difficult to catch them!
So where will it all end? I agree you should be able to make BS fast, but only up to a point, yes make it so you can posibly get to a gate, or you can warp quickly, (like i my BS does 1100km with MWD but thats to get me out of a bubble or to a gate!) and i think thats reasonable speed and i can still get caught by an inty, in which case i use other counter measures, but speed should not be used on a BS as the ultimate counter, then you deprive the inty of its usefulness! which should not be the case. And on one final note, the danger is if people cant beat it, they will join it, making the use of BS one Dimensional and this will take away all the other wonderful tactics and setups that make it very interesting.
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Haffrage
Less than Ideal
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Posted - 2007.02.26 22:40:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Nanobotter Mk2 "You mean the paper thin, easily webbed due to their low momentum, killable by anyone with a clue inties? Those kind?
Yeah, those suck, nerf them..."
Ya just like those paper thin NANO BS, which are also easily webbed and killable by anyone with a clue nanoBS those kind. Still hearin the same whine, waaaaah I can;t fly my nearly 100% safe and yet ready to tackle anything generic inty ship. Waaaaaah why should I have to specialize my set up and be weak vs other oppenents to catch and kill a specialized set up opponent.
So you went from pulling things out of your ass to mockery, and all while spelling and generally just looking like an idiot! Brilliant defense. I hereby forfeit my argument, you sir are a master of debate!
(Tip: Battleships have several if not tens of thousands of HP. I'm not sure any given ceptor breaks 2 thousand. Paper thin like corrugated cardboard) -----
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Linium
Without Reason FATAL Alliance
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Posted - 2007.02.26 22:44:00 -
[25]
BS shouldn't be able to fly @ 10000m/s FULL STOP, well not unless everything else can fly at 50000m/s. ----------------------------------------------------
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Wizard
Without Reason FATAL Alliance
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Posted - 2007.02.26 22:52:00 -
[26]
At the end of the day..............
Damage mods got stacking peneltys.........good
Hardners of any kind got stacking peneltys......good
duel mwds got nerfed.........good
EW was overpowered so got nerfed...........good
Why should nanos etc be any different.
I lost a perfectly good myrmidion to a RAT gate camp earlier, why you say.........because the dominix and typhoon orbitted me at 15-22km at speeds my drones couldnt keep up with let alone my medium guns could track whilst using another overpowered module ( heavy nosferatos ) on me. Oh did i mention the drake in there gang with full nano setups. Where is the risk to themselves?
Im a big beleiver of dont fly it if you can afford to loose it, of course im basing on there being a risk flying the ship, you have to be a complete **** to loose a nano ship and there lies no risk/worry.
I like pvping, it would be very easy for me to nanofit and join the tard race but i like having a fight where tactics and effort into ship setups can be used.
Without Reason corp website
^^looking for a PvP corp with little stress then |
Ruri
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Posted - 2007.02.26 23:06:00 -
[27]
How i love to read this topic, I don't fly a nano BS, hell I'm not even checked out for BS yet but i love to see people learning to adapt and not screaming for nerfs.
wait, are those same people who are always telling carebears and missions runners "learn to adapt" now screaming for nerfs because they themselves can't learn to adapt? OMFG
Sounds like a way to deal with gate camps and etc has been found, and people are now crying to nerf.
I think what we need here is a change to all ships and all modules:
All ships can now only travel 100 m/s
no medium slots, this might let people think and find a way to do thing s
no low slots, this might let people think and find a way to do things
only 4 high slots for guns/missiles only, no other module type is allowed
ships are now not allow to warp because people might not "100% engage"
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Linium
Without Reason FATAL Alliance
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Posted - 2007.02.26 23:19:00 -
[28]
The OP requested no idiots to post.
How do you adapt? nothng can catch them except other nano BS. CCP have already stated that BS isn't supposed to go at 10k m/s. Its impossible to try solo your bs VS a nano bs. You just can't hit them, drones won't catch them and your nos only counters theirs and does nothing to slow them down. Intys should be the fastest ships not BS, no arguing with that. Only mistakes, lag or CTD will kill a savvy nano bs pilot and NOT legitimate combat tactics. ----------------------------------------------------
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BANDID
NED-Clan R i s e
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Posted - 2007.02.26 23:21:00 -
[29]
I guess the prob is just that it is unbelievable and should not be able to that a Battleship which size is like 10 times a interceptor is faster then that interceptor weighs more then an interceptor and with the nice faction mods implants and a Typhoon got 7 lows + 3 rig slots is able to outrun a ceptor with same faction mods and just have 3 lows and 2 rig slots ? That is the biggest issue in my opinion. Interceptors are built to tackle with their amazing agility and speed, Now u just need a nab with little skills and a phoon with a big wallet and he is able to kill everything he wishes. So yes like the gyro/magstab etc get a stacking penalty and eve pvp gets more stabilized. A Battleship is the Ship to Dish the dmg out and not an Oversized interceptor who can just keep orbitting at 9-10k/s and wait to blow u up. That is just not right. They nerfed in the early days that u couldnt put an 100mn mwd to a stabber to get those speeds going down i have seen crows doing 20k/s
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Nanobotter Mk2
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Posted - 2007.02.26 23:30:00 -
[30]
"I guess the prob is just that it is unbelievable and should not be able to that a Battleship which size is like 10 times a interceptor is faster then that interceptor weighs more then an interceptor and with the nice faction mods implants and a Typhoon got 7 lows + 3 rig slots is able to outrun a ceptor with same faction mods and just have 3 lows and 2 rig slots ? "
I think you just described why. Remember this is space we are flying in right...Ie the Bs has all the lows..
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