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Wizard Without Reason FATAL Alliance	Posted - 2007.02.26 17:31:00 - [1] Is there any kind of idea as to how long till nanos etc get the stacking nerf that they so desperatly require? I read in the dev blog that the devs want people to be commited to a fight 100% once engaged and i whole heartedly aggree with this. Obviously things like sensor damps/inertia stabs and nosferatos also fall into the overpowered category, would just like some clarification on the timescale of all these FIXS to be implemented? Getting tired of trying to pvp only to watch as bs orbit at insane speed whilst nossing stupidly with no risk to themselves whatsoever. Jus planning on going afk for a few weeks or whatever till it gets sorted is all. I fully expect the trolls who forum ***** constantly and like/use overpowered setups to give the informative "whine whine whine " replys, but im just a guy who wants to pvp which means both parties getting a enjoyable experiance out of it. Thks in advance to all the adults that read and post replys befitting of the title " adult ". Without Reason corp website ^^looking for a PvP corp with little stress then
Kehmor Caldari PAK	Posted - 2007.02.26 17:34:00 - [2] 1st and IBTL
CharlieMurphy Amarr Viziam	Posted - 2007.02.26 17:45:00 - [3] Edited by: CharlieMurphy on 26/02/2007 17:43:52 Originally by: Wizard I read in the dev blog that the devs want people to be commited to a fight 100% once engaged and i whole heartedly aggree with this. you sure you really want the game to go that way ? im sure i dont and im not convinced that nanos need to be nerfed in any way at all they have been in the game and functioning the way they do sinse i started playing if there really was a problem with nanos it would have shown up long b4 now, its not nanos that are broken the problem is elsewhere
Haffrage Less than Ideal	Posted - 2007.02.26 17:51:00 - [4] Originally by: CharlieMurphy Edited by: CharlieMurphy on 26/02/2007 17:46:18 Originally by: Wizard I read in the dev blog that the devs want people to be commited to a fight 100% once engaged and i whole heartedly aggree with this. you sure you really want the game to go that way ? im sure i dont and im not convinced that nanos need to be nerfed in any way at all they have been in the game and functioning the way they do sinse i started playing if there really was a problem with nanos it would have shown up long b4 now, its not nanos that are broken and the problem, if there even is one, is elsewhere speed is a legitimate tactic and if you bite off more than you can chew you should be able to disengage Tell that to the pilot being ganked by the nano ship. What, that's their fault because they didn't fit a full nano setup themselves? -----
Anaalys Fluuterby Caldari	Posted - 2007.02.26 18:09:00 - [5] Originally by: Haffrage Tell that to the pilot being ganked by the nano ship. What, that's their fault because they didn't fit a full nano setup themselves? There are a thousand ways to gank someone in this game that have nothing to do with nanos. You could just as easily scream "Nerf ECM more!!!! I didn't have ECCM fitted and got perma-jammed by a scorpion with 6 ECM modules". <-----------> oveur --> Eve is PRIMARILY a PvP game. Primarily != 100%
Haffrage Less than Ideal	Posted - 2007.02.26 18:32:00 - [6] Originally by: Anaalys Fluuterby Originally by: Haffrage Tell that to the pilot being ganked by the nano ship. What, that's their fault because they didn't fit a full nano setup themselves? There are a thousand ways to gank someone in this game that have nothing to do with nanos. You could just as easily scream "Nerf ECM more!!!! I didn't have ECCM fitted and got perma-jammed by a scorpion with 6 ECM modules". And I have a funny hat. How are either of these facts relevant to the nano ship argument? Hint: they're not -----
Plutoinum German Cyberdome Corp Cult of War	Posted - 2007.02.26 18:35:00 - [7] Edited by: Plutoinum on 26/02/2007 18:31:57 Hope the nano nerf takes some time. I was always to lazy to train large tech-2 drones. In a few days I'm ready and get a nanophoon, too. Want also to be flamed in local. _______ I came, I read, I lol'ed.
Turin Caldari RONA Deepspace Rule of Three	Posted - 2007.02.26 18:37:00 - [8] People who reply in favor of the nano ships basically are nano ship flyers who dont want their solowtfpwnmobile taken away from them. They are to lazy to get kills in any real way that might risk them. Hint: Remember when CCP took away dual MWD's? Why did they do that? To NERF BATTLESHIP SPEED. Why should this be any differant. Yes, you CAN fit to kill a nanoship. The problem is, that in doing so, you wont kill anything else. so right now you have two choices when fitting for combat. Fit to kill nanoships. Fit to kill everything else. My caracal was slammed by a nanophoon doing 15,000 KMS. It booted me over 100kms into space away from the gate. THATS STUPID. ________________________________________________________
CharlieMurphy Amarr Viziam	Posted - 2007.02.26 19:02:00 - [9] Originally by: Turin People who reply in favor of the nano ships basically are nano ship flyers who dont want their solowtfpwnmobile taken away from them. They are to lazy to get kills in any real way that might risk them. i am not for or against nano ships but i am very much against nerfing nanos Originally by: Wizard Is there any kind of idea as to how long till nanos etc get the stacking nerf that they so desperatly require? nanos dont need a stacking penalty and if etc means i-stabs then they already have it i have never flown a nano ship into a serious fight but just messing about i have managed to get a phoon up to a little bit less than 4k with a t2 mwd no rigs and no implants i came to the conclusion that nano bs are only good for cheap ganks on unwary people and unless they are fitted with with a faction mwd backed up with rigs and snake implants they arnt half of what they get made out to be it seems that a nano phoons real power is not in its speed but more in its ability to upset people that die to one to start bleating on these forums about nerfing nanos.. the nano module needs to be left well alone as it affects all ships not just extream fitted bs Originally by: Turin My caracal was slammed by a nanophoon doing 15,000 KMS. It booted me over 100kms into space away from the gate im guessing this was in empire? sounds more like you got greifed and that has nothing to do with combat balance issues the thought of your poor caracal speeding away from the gate is making me chuckle tbh
Turin Caldari RONA Deepspace Rule of Three	Posted - 2007.02.26 19:17:00 - [10] Originally by: CharlieMurphy Originally by: Turin People who reply in favor of the nano ships basically are nano ship flyers who dont want their solowtfpwnmobile taken away from them. They are to lazy to get kills in any real way that might risk them. i am not for or against nano ships but i am very much against nerfing nanos Originally by: Wizard Is there any kind of idea as to how long till nanos etc get the stacking nerf that they so desperatly require? nanos dont need a stacking penalty and if etc means i-stabs then they already have it i have never flown a nano ship into a serious fight but just messing about i have managed to get a phoon up to a little bit less than 4k with a t2 mwd no rigs and no implants i came to the conclusion that nano bs are only good for cheap ganks on unwary people and unless they are fitted with with a faction mwd backed up with rigs and snake implants they arnt half of what they get made out to be it seems that a nano phoons real power is not in its speed but more in its ability to upset people that die to one to start bleating on these forums about nerfing nanos.. the nano module needs to be left well alone as it affects all ships not just extream fitted bs Originally by: Turin My caracal was slammed by a nanophoon doing 15,000 KMS. It booted me over 100kms into space away from the gate im guessing this was in empire? sounds more like you got greifed and that has nothing to do with combat balance issues the thought of your poor caracal speeding away from the gate is making me chuckle tbh Then one question, if speed doesnt need to be nerfed, why did they nerf dual MWD's so long ago? And actually no, it wasnt in empire, it got nailed at a gate camp in 0.0. :) I was about to align and warp, when a phoon, that was about 70km away from me, slammed me. It actually was quute funny, I had to give the guy props. It was an awesome slam and cost me the ship. ________________________________________________________
CharlieMurphy Amarr Viziam	Posted - 2007.02.26 19:23:00 - [11] Originally by: Turin Then one question, if speed doesnt need to be nerfed, why did they nerf dual MWD's so long ago? i cant speak for the devs obviously but if i had to guess i would say its because with 2 mwd you get to go really fast but still have your lows open for tank or gank
Turin Caldari RONA Deepspace Rule of Three	Posted - 2007.02.26 19:52:00 - [12] Originally by: CharlieMurphy Originally by: Turin Then one question, if speed doesnt need to be nerfed, why did they nerf dual MWD's so long ago? i cant speak for the devs obviously but if i had to guess i would say its because with 2 mwd you get to go really fast but still have your lows open for tank or gank No. the reason the Devs stated was that Battleships were going far faster than they had ever intended. That was a CCP stated reason. So, carry that forward to the nano ships. I see no differance. ________________________________________________________
Milonia Caldari APEX Unlimited	Posted - 2007.02.26 20:21:00 - [13] I REALLY hope they speed up the Nano-ship nerf. I got to experiance first hand the retardedness of a BS (Machrial I thinkit was) going 7000 m/s while our Intys couldn't catch him to hold him down. Our Inty pilots are good and highly skilled but couldn't tackle him. And I am to understand that nano-BSes are very weak once you can tackle them. But how the heck can you tackle them if a tackler can't match thier speed? Not only is it a game mechanics issue but it is INCREDIBLY DUMB for a massive ship like a BS to be outrunning an Interceptor. Everyone in support of nanos as is has one and doesn't want thier ownmobile to be nerfed thats all. NERF the NANOS!! ============================== Milonia Combat Pilot of the ACV Acadia (Moa) I'm new so be nice! "Talent is a gift... training opens the Box."
Damien Smith Turbulent	Posted - 2007.02.26 20:35:00 - [14] Originally by: Milonia I REALLY hope they speed up the Nano-ship nerf. I got to experiance first hand the retardedness of a BS (Machrial I thinkit was) going 7000 m/s while our Intys couldn't catch him to hold him down. Our Inty pilots are good and highly skilled but couldn't tackle him. And I am to understand that nano-BSes are very weak once you can tackle them. But how the heck can you tackle them if a tackler can't match thier speed? Not only is it a game mechanics issue but it is INCREDIBLY DUMB for a massive ship like a BS to be outrunning an Interceptor. Everyone in support of nanos as is has one and doesn't want thier ownmobile to be nerfed thats all. NERF the NANOS!! 7k? We had a 15k/s nanomachariel come through one of our camps. The thing about the current nano/istab setups is that it has no counter except for another nano/istab ship. Any webbers, including ones fitted to a minmatar recon are useless, as the battleship's momentum just carries it far out of web range and it just accelerates again. Nano ships in their old style were ok. They took massive amounts of skill and funding to get to be uber. Now any noob can fly one and think he's 1337. Hmm, kind of like the old probe system where only well practiced players got the kills, and the new one where any noob with a bought covert alt can get good results. What's next? T2 weapons on noobships as standard? ----------- Join channel 'Turby' or die! (bring pie) Damien's our #1 subscriber!! - CCP
Nanobotter Mk2	Posted - 2007.02.26 20:53:00 - [15] "Tell that to the pilot being ganked by the nano ship. What, that's their fault because they didn't fit a full nano setup themselves? " Ya right stop the BS , why havent you been posting to nerf inty's? Ya you know the same thing. So tell that to the guy in the slower ship being ganked by the inty...
Damien Smith Turbulent	Posted - 2007.02.26 20:55:00 - [16] Originally by: Nanobotter Mk2 "Tell that to the pilot being ganked by the nano ship. What, that's their fault because they didn't fit a full nano setup themselves? " Ya right stop the BS , why havent you been posting to nerf inty's? Ya you know the same thing. So tell that to the guy in the slower ship being ganked by the inty... You mean the paper thin, easily webbed due to their low momentum, killable by anyone with a clue inties? Those kind? Yeah, those suck, nerf them... ----------- Join channel 'Turby' or die! (bring pie) Damien's our #1 subscriber!! - CCP
Nanobotter Mk2	Posted - 2007.02.26 20:57:00 - [17] "People who reply in favor of the nano ships basically are nano ship flyers who dont want their solowtfpwnmobile taken away from them. They are to lazy to get kills in any real way that might risk them. Hint: Remember when CCP took away dual MWD's? Why did they do that? To NERF BATTLESHIP SPEED. Why should this be any differant. Yes, you CAN fit to kill a nanoship. The problem is, that in doing so, you wont kill anything else. so right now you have two choices when fitting for combat. Fit to kill nanoships. Fit to kill everything else." Man so many frigging hypocrites posting. You know the same can be said for anything in eve. you know those pve players you seem to feel you have the right to solowtfbbq when ever you feel like it? Ya well they can fit for their pve or fit for pvp, and that has been 100% okay since day 1. Further more you can fit to kill inty's or fit to kill BS You can fit to kill frigates or fit to kill BS. The only whines we got here are people used to flying cheap disposible fast ships who are no longer 100% safe when jumping on a BS, END OF STORY.
Krugerrand 0utbreak	Posted - 2007.02.26 20:59:00 - [18] Several nano ships have died today...they don't last very long. Combat isn't meant to be 1v1
Nanobotter Mk2	Posted - 2007.02.26 21:01:00 - [19] "You mean the paper thin, easily webbed due to their low momentum, killable by anyone with a clue inties? Those kind? Yeah, those suck, nerf them..." Ya just like those paper thin NANO BS, which are also easily webbed and killable by anyone with a clue nanoBS those kind. Still hearin the same whine, waaaaah I can;t fly my nearly 100% safe and yet ready to tackle anything generic inty ship. Waaaaaah why should I have to specialize my set up and be weak vs other oppenents to catch and kill a specialized set up opponent.
Milonia Caldari APEX Unlimited	Posted - 2007.02.26 21:14:00 - [20] What a dumb argument. YOU CAN'T WEB THEM! Not with an Inty because THEY don't go that fast! The nano-BS has to screw up to be killed. What other ship does that sound like? Hmmmm unkillable unless they screw up? Oh yeah! A titan! ROFL! My experiance with the Nano-Mach wasn't 1v1. It was 6 v around the same amount. We were flying a fast attack force with a BC as our biggest ship. A few Cruisers (I was in a Moa) and most were in Intys and AF. Our covops Manticore spotted our target Macharial and we warped to it and our FC called it primary. We started firing and then he started zipping around at the aforementioned 7k m/s and none of us could hit him. He kept flying out of range and then back again so we would have to relock. By the time we called another target his friends warped in and we had to skitdattle. It was the most BROKEN and UNIMMERSIVE gameplay I have yet to experiance in an MMO. It doesn't make any sence for a BS to fly faster then a Speedy Frig (Inty). A civilization with the tech to make a BS fly that fast can make a ship MUCH smaller fly faster. But NOT in EVE because of a BROKEN game mechanic. FIX the NANOS! ============================== Milonia Combat Pilot of the ACV Acadia (Moa) I'm new so be nice! "Talent is a gift... training opens the Box."
Pepperami Art of War Cult of War	Posted - 2007.02.26 21:57:00 - [21] Webber drones are very effective, I can tell you from both sides of experience. As I said before in other threads, instead of nerfing the tactic by removing it, they should create better counters, such as longer range weaker webbers or more capable webber drones, just for instance. Also it should be noted that the primary use of nanophoons is to kill npc'ers/travellers who are both easy to kill and full of whines/smack in equal measure whichever way they die. [EVE TASK BAR?]
Ragornok Multiversal Enterprise Inc. Privateer Alliance	Posted - 2007.02.26 21:57:00 - [22] And that is the problem, is that they just can't be webbed down to viable speeds even if you do have the gear to try it. Last time we engaged one in a serious attempt, we had a rapier and huggin, both with dual 90% webbers. A hawk, also with a 90% webber. And 5 webber drones from one of our BS pilots . So that's 5 full webbers and 5 drones, and it STILL didn't slow down enough to actually fight the thing. The inertia just carries them too well, and while you do cap the maximum speed it takes far far too long to actually slow down.
Cent 02	Posted - 2007.02.26 22:35:00 - [23] The question is should a BS be able to out run an Inty? and how do you catch a nano BS ship unless you are in one yourself? My experience of Nano BS is that, they tend not to engage superior numbers because they know that they have no tank, and they are more likely to get caught, when we have engaged either 1 or a few of em, i get the fleet closely packed, that way if they come close they are likely to get hit by every one, but as we all know we are not allways out in groups. One of the latest tactics i have seen from the Nano BS pilot, is they will fly accompanied by co-vert opps, who will scan the system for Ratters and miners, and once the nano BS gets you; you are usaully dead, the only ship that i believe they are afraid of is the Dommi, since they have to get in scrambling range at least 20km, then a tanked dommi can unleash its own NOS and its drones, and i would recall my normal drones and deploy sentry's which will not miss a large ship, and with a tank and lots of Nos you will out last them! they will end up with drawing. This is assuming you are fighting one! I know this works because i had one try it on me and he withdrew he was in a Nano Dommi travelling at aprox 7km/sec which is ridiculous. whats the point of using Intys when you can use BS to tackle! the introduction of rigs has made these ships even more formidable. The Nano Dommi i mentioned above has killed many peeps in our alliance, we have tried every way to get him and we have failed! on one occassion we had 3 intys get near him, 2 of em got him he just nossed em instantly and got away before our BSs had time to even lock him! On another occascion we dropped a few bubbles round the gate, he turned up, before we even had a chance to lock him he was like 200km away! in a space of a 6/8secs!, and even if we had are own nano BS, if he gets a slight start its still going to be difficult to catch them! So where will it all end? I agree you should be able to make BS fast, but only up to a point, yes make it so you can posibly get to a gate, or you can warp quickly, (like i my BS does 1100km with MWD but thats to get me out of a bubble or to a gate!) and i think thats reasonable speed and i can still get caught by an inty, in which case i use other counter measures, but speed should not be used on a BS as the ultimate counter, then you deprive the inty of its usefulness! which should not be the case. And on one final note, the danger is if people cant beat it, they will join it, making the use of BS one Dimensional and this will take away all the other wonderful tactics and setups that make it very interesting.
Haffrage Less than Ideal	Posted - 2007.02.26 22:40:00 - [24] Originally by: Nanobotter Mk2 "You mean the paper thin, easily webbed due to their low momentum, killable by anyone with a clue inties? Those kind? Yeah, those suck, nerf them..." Ya just like those paper thin NANO BS, which are also easily webbed and killable by anyone with a clue nanoBS those kind. Still hearin the same whine, waaaaah I can;t fly my nearly 100% safe and yet ready to tackle anything generic inty ship. Waaaaaah why should I have to specialize my set up and be weak vs other oppenents to catch and kill a specialized set up opponent. So you went from pulling things out of your ass to mockery, and all while spelling and generally just looking like an idiot! Brilliant defense. I hereby forfeit my argument, you sir are a master of debate! (Tip: Battleships have several if not tens of thousands of HP. I'm not sure any given ceptor breaks 2 thousand. Paper thin like corrugated cardboard) -----
Linium Without Reason FATAL Alliance	Posted - 2007.02.26 22:44:00 - [25] BS shouldn't be able to fly @ 10000m/s FULL STOP, well not unless everything else can fly at 50000m/s. ----------------------------------------------------
Wizard Without Reason FATAL Alliance	Posted - 2007.02.26 22:52:00 - [26] At the end of the day.............. Damage mods got stacking peneltys.........good Hardners of any kind got stacking peneltys......good duel mwds got nerfed.........good EW was overpowered so got nerfed...........good Why should nanos etc be any different. I lost a perfectly good myrmidion to a RAT gate camp earlier, why you say.........because the dominix and typhoon orbitted me at 15-22km at speeds my drones couldnt keep up with let alone my medium guns could track whilst using another overpowered module ( heavy nosferatos ) on me. Oh did i mention the drake in there gang with full nano setups. Where is the risk to themselves? Im a big beleiver of dont fly it if you can afford to loose it, of course im basing on there being a risk flying the ship, you have to be a complete **** to loose a nano ship and there lies no risk/worry. I like pvping, it would be very easy for me to nanofit and join the tard race but i like having a fight where tactics and effort into ship setups can be used. Without Reason corp website ^^looking for a PvP corp with little stress then
Ruri	Posted - 2007.02.26 23:06:00 - [27] How i love to read this topic, I don't fly a nano BS, hell I'm not even checked out for BS yet but i love to see people learning to adapt and not screaming for nerfs. wait, are those same people who are always telling carebears and missions runners "learn to adapt" now screaming for nerfs because they themselves can't learn to adapt? OMFG Sounds like a way to deal with gate camps and etc has been found, and people are now crying to nerf. I think what we need here is a change to all ships and all modules: All ships can now only travel 100 m/s no medium slots, this might let people think and find a way to do thing s no low slots, this might let people think and find a way to do things only 4 high slots for guns/missiles only, no other module type is allowed ships are now not allow to warp because people might not "100% engage"
Linium Without Reason FATAL Alliance	Posted - 2007.02.26 23:19:00 - [28] The OP requested no idiots to post. How do you adapt? nothng can catch them except other nano BS. CCP have already stated that BS isn't supposed to go at 10k m/s. Its impossible to try solo your bs VS a nano bs. You just can't hit them, drones won't catch them and your nos only counters theirs and does nothing to slow them down. Intys should be the fastest ships not BS, no arguing with that. Only mistakes, lag or CTD will kill a savvy nano bs pilot and NOT legitimate combat tactics. ----------------------------------------------------
BANDID NED-Clan R i s e	Posted - 2007.02.26 23:21:00 - [29] I guess the prob is just that it is unbelievable and should not be able to that a Battleship which size is like 10 times a interceptor is faster then that interceptor weighs more then an interceptor and with the nice faction mods implants and a Typhoon got 7 lows + 3 rig slots is able to outrun a ceptor with same faction mods and just have 3 lows and 2 rig slots ? That is the biggest issue in my opinion. Interceptors are built to tackle with their amazing agility and speed, Now u just need a nab with little skills and a phoon with a big wallet and he is able to kill everything he wishes. So yes like the gyro/magstab etc get a stacking penalty and eve pvp gets more stabilized. A Battleship is the Ship to Dish the dmg out and not an Oversized interceptor who can just keep orbitting at 9-10k/s and wait to blow u up. That is just not right. They nerfed in the early days that u couldnt put an 100mn mwd to a stabber to get those speeds going down i have seen crows doing 20k/s
Nanobotter Mk2	Posted - 2007.02.26 23:30:00 - [30] "I guess the prob is just that it is unbelievable and should not be able to that a Battleship which size is like 10 times a interceptor is faster then that interceptor weighs more then an interceptor and with the nice faction mods implants and a Typhoon got 7 lows + 3 rig slots is able to outrun a ceptor with same faction mods and just have 3 lows and 2 rig slots ? " I think you just described why. Remember this is space we are flying in right...Ie the Bs has all the lows..
Nanobotter Mk2	Posted - 2007.02.26 23:37:00 - [31] "The OP requested no idiots to post. How do you adapt? nothng can catch them except other nano BS." right but it is okay that the only thing that can catch a tricked out inty is another inty? I mean your lame arguement comes down to the same thing. there is bound to be one ship that is the fastest and the only way to catch that ship will be to fly that ship. Why is it that it should be any different for a nano BS? Look every arguement is lame I have seen. It is all about you don;t want to have to fly a nanoBS to beat one. I see a bunch of spoiled players who are used to having there 1 set up wins all ships and you don;t want to have to alter that to handle a specialized ship. I mean lets be honest, how the hell is a inty blocking the warp droves of a BS? How the hell are frigates and inty's able to not get pwned by a battleship with immensly more fire power? Why are BS supposed to be the one ship able to get pwned by everything and pwn nothing but other BS... It would be a shame if CCP caved to this silly nerf whine. There is a penalty for Nano's they don;t need a stackign penalty. The only thing I could see being reasonable is maybe alter nano mods so they might lower inertia so they are a little more easier to web. Honestly though, scramblers and webbers themselves work to well already. they are essentially 100% activatables, and msot of this whining is because finally there is a ship you cvannot be assured to web with certainty. tip to web a NANO bs you need to be moving fast with it and web.... it will slow down some and you won;t making it unable to get away, but I know that requires special set up and actually piloting your ship isntead of sitting there tapping IWIN buttons.....
Savio Caldari The Knights Of Camelot DeStInY.	Posted - 2007.02.26 23:47:00 - [32] They realy need to nerf the NanoBS.. its just stupid seing a BS going 15km/s or what ever.. just stupid.. BTW recall seing a dev post there they stated they WILL be nerfed... . Need a Sign? Click Here
Haffrage Less than Ideal	Posted - 2007.02.27 00:14:00 - [33] Originally by: Nanobotter Mk2 "The OP requested no idiots to post. How do you adapt? nothng can catch them except other nano BS." right but it is okay that the only thing that can catch a tricked out inty is another inty? I mean your lame arguement comes down to the same thing. there is bound to be one ship that is the fastest and the only way to catch that ship will be to fly that ship. Why is it that it should be any different for a nano BS? Because nano inties can't singlehandedly take out players in EVERY ship class short of a dread, and that's all it comes down to. A nano bs will be able to take out ceptors, af's, cruisers, battlecruisers, battleships, hacs, command ships, recons, and the list goes on as the game expands. Nano ceptors? Well, for one thing, I've literally TANKED T2 precision crows in an ishkur after the thing's killed my drones. It's called balance. The only ceptors with threatening dps have to go in close to deal it, and what happens when you're in close range? Web+nos. If it can't be killed, it shouldn't be too much of a threat on its own. -----
Linium Without Reason FATAL Alliance	Posted - 2007.02.27 17:16:00 - [34] Originally by: Nanobotter Mk2 "The OP requested no idiots to post. How do you adapt? nothng can catch them except other nano BS." right but it is okay that the only thing that can catch a tricked out inty is another inty? I mean your lame arguement comes down to the same thing. there is bound to be one ship that is the fastest and the only way to catch that ship will be to fly that ship. Why is it that it should be any different for a nano BS? Look every arguement is lame I have seen. It is all about you don;t want to have to fly a nanoBS to beat one. I see a bunch of spoiled players who are used to having there 1 set up wins all ships and you don;t want to have to alter that to handle a specialized ship. I mean lets be honest, how the hell is a inty blocking the warp droves of a BS? How the hell are frigates and inty's able to not get pwned by a battleship with immensly more fire power? Why are BS supposed to be the one ship able to get pwned by everything and pwn nothing but other BS... It would be a shame if CCP caved to this silly nerf whine. There is a penalty for Nano's they don;t need a stackign penalty. The only thing I could see being reasonable is maybe alter nano mods so they might lower inertia so they are a little more easier to web. Honestly though, scramblers and webbers themselves work to well already. they are essentially 100% activatables, and msot of this whining is because finally there is a ship you cvannot be assured to web with certainty. tip to web a NANO bs you need to be moving fast with it and web.... it will slow down some and you won;t making it unable to get away, but I know that requires special set up and actually piloting your ship isntead of sitting there tapping IWIN buttons..... I understand the principle of catching a nano bs, it is very easy for ANY ceptor to catch a nano crow or crusader, just get within 10km and stick a web on him. Even if your stilleto or ranis is slower it is still possible catch them due to skills and tactics. My corp mate makes a living out of killing standard missle nano fit crows. It is not possible to do the same to a nano bs however as multiple posters have indicated. Even if a huggy could web a bs to a stop its still not right that only one race, let alone just recons in that race can. Nano BS are a step too far, unsetting the balance between the races and ship classes to sometimes an un-winable level. I only ever ask for a chance to be able to win any battle, this situation is however only winable using another nano bs. ----------------------------------------------------
Nyxus GALAXIAN Rule of Three	Posted - 2007.02.27 17:36:00 - [35] I have to agree with Wizard, an ETA on the nanonerf implementation is greatly needed. And remember kids, Tuxford has ALREADY said that the days of nos/drone/missile bs moving at 10,000m/s is numbered. Thats not "if they are nerfed" it's "when they are nerfed". So the question is how long should we carebear and not bother to pvp with the absurd ships in play. 10 days? 15 days? 30 days? I would really like to have a guesstimate of the timeframe. Otherwise I may just as well give in and buy a nanophoon since the omfgstupidspeeds are ruining pvp gameplay. Nyxus The Gallente ideals of Freedom, Liberty and Equality will be met by the Amarr realities of Lasers, Armor and Battleships.
Sorela Gallente hirr Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2007.02.27 17:49:00 - [36] Personally before they do any nerfing I'd like to see them fix webs and see how that works. The biggest problem with nano BS's specifically is that they don't slow down fast enough. All a web does is kill their max speed and wait for them to lose inertia. Make the web actually slow them down quickly and then it might not be a problem.
Krugerrand 0utbreak	Posted - 2007.02.27 18:05:00 - [37] The biggest fear is that nanos/inertia's being nerfed will also affect the ships that are "meant" to be fast. Why should inties/dictors/other fast ships be nerfed due to the "problem" (I use that lightly) that nanoBS create.
Tsunari	Posted - 2007.02.27 18:49:00 - [38] Edited by: Tsunari on 27/02/2007 18:48:34 I have no problem with BSs going fast. Even really fast. Just having a multi-megaton battleship turning on a dime is stupid. The mathematics and physics when you apply inertial dampeners etc. is flawed. Its like saying you can make a 5 ton semi truck make a 90 degree turn at an intersection going 95 MPH. So i think the correct thing to nerf is the intertial stabs and make them more realistic according to mass of the ship you fit them on. Therefore, for a BS to reach high, even insane speeds, it should take a rather long acceleration period and make turns wider the faster they are going. As for lighter ships, ie. interceptors, should be little or no change as iStabs will be mass dependant. Ever warp into an asteroid with your BS and get bumped off at very high speeds and its hard to turn? That's realistic (xept for the rubber asteroid). Inertial stabs should help but not help to the point where a BS can fly like a frigate. I think there is a use for speed, especially with battleships. Nothing wrong with giving a close range setup an option to be able to charge their opponent effectively, even joust them. But orbiting like an interceptor is an obvious flaw and no argument can say otherwise IMHO.
Turin Caldari RONA Deepspace Rule of Three	Posted - 2007.02.27 19:26:00 - [39] Originally by: Nanobotter Mk2 "People who reply in favor of the nano ships basically are nano ship flyers who dont want their solowtfpwnmobile taken away from them. They are to lazy to get kills in any real way that might risk them. Hint: Remember when CCP took away dual MWD's? Why did they do that? To NERF BATTLESHIP SPEED. Why should this be any differant. Yes, you CAN fit to kill a nanoship. The problem is, that in doing so, you wont kill anything else. so right now you have two choices when fitting for combat. Fit to kill nanoships. Fit to kill everything else." Man so many frigging hypocrites posting. You know the same can be said for anything in eve. you know those pve players you seem to feel you have the right to solowtfbbq when ever you feel like it? Ya well they can fit for their pve or fit for pvp, and that has been 100% okay since day 1. Further more you can fit to kill inty's or fit to kill BS You can fit to kill frigates or fit to kill BS. The only whines we got here are people used to flying cheap disposible fast ships who are no longer 100% safe when jumping on a BS, END OF STORY. Ah.... you must be a nanoshipper. Lame. Of course your going to argue against it. ________________________________________________________
Angelus Riptalon	Posted - 2007.02.27 19:34:00 - [40] Originally by: Wizard At the end of the day.............. Damage mods got stacking peneltys.........good Hardners of any kind got stacking peneltys......good duel mwds got nerfed.........good EW was overpowered so got nerfed...........good Why should nanos etc be any different. You're missing the point of risk verses reward... The cost of stacking a few modules is relatively small. That's why people used to go out in dominix's with a full compliment of ecm. It required few skills, was cheap and was effective. ECM got rightly nerfed. However, i am sure most people have at least once tried to fit their bs with nano's and a MWD to see how fast they go. Yeh for most people, including me, the won't go very fast. Nano ships only become effective when you invest a LOT of isk and time into it. I can assure faction MWD's and a full snake set are little bit more expensive than your standard bs. So if someone invests in excess of 1 billion isk into their battleship then maybe it shouldn't come as too much of a shock if you can't kill it. Nano pilots have a greater risk of flying their ships and getting podded so the reward of being difficult to kill is greater. It is similar to me whining that a drake pilot with a crystal set can out tank my dominix. He shouldn't be able to, after all i'm in a battleship he's in a battlecruiser, my ship should have the better tank right? Ps. The reason you lost your ship in a gatecamp was not because they were moving too fast, it was because you were in a myrmidon and you were up against a dominix, a typhoon and a drake. You were simply outnumbered. Stop being so sour.
Nite Angelus Gallente Warped Mining Gunboat Diplomacy	Posted - 2007.02.27 19:40:00 - [41] Originally by: Wizard At the end of the day.............. Damage mods got stacking peneltys.........good Hardners of any kind got stacking peneltys......good duel mwds got nerfed.........good EW was overpowered so got nerfed...........good Why should nanos etc be any different. You're missing the point of risk verses reward... The cost of stacking a few modules is relatively small. That's why people used to go out in dominix's with a full compliment of ecm. It required few skills, was cheap and was effective. ECM got rightly nerfed. However, i am sure most people have at least once tried to fit their bs with nano's and a MWD to see how fast they go. Yeh for most people, including me, the won't go very fast. Nano ships only become effective when you invest a LOT of isk and time into it. I can assure faction MWD's and a full snake set are little bit more expensive than your standard bs. So if someone invests in excess of 1 billion isk into their battleship then maybe it shouldn't come as too much of a shock if you can't kill it. Nano pilots have a greater risk of flying their ships and getting podded so the reward of being difficult to kill is greater. It is similar to me whining that a drake pilot with a crystal set can out tank my dominix. He shouldn't be able to, after all i'm in a battleship he's in a battlecruiser, my ship should have the better tank right? Ps. The reason you lost your ship in a gatecamp was not because they were moving too fast, it was because you were in a myrmidon and you were up against a dominix, a typhoon and a drake. You were simply outnumbered. Stop being so sour.
jaezebelle Gallente ORB enterprises	Posted - 2007.02.27 19:48:00 - [42] Take a person with maxed missile skill using a ship with a bonus for missile speed fitted with whatever implants he can get to make them go even faster and that missiles speed IMHO is the cap they should put on any ship being able travell at. The reasoning is missiles are just propellent and a guidance system and therefore alot more simpler design than the shps that fire them. I think that it should be reduced further by ship size etc so the fastest would be intis and the slowest BS sized craft. In the meantime untill they are changed I shall carry on using them along with other ships I enjoy flying!
Force Works Amarr	Posted - 2007.02.27 20:10:00 - [43] I was a part of a Nano-thron kill... Basically was me (inty) and about 4 others-inty,bs,bs,cruiser) to take him down. Problem was that no one could keep up with him.. Only reason we go em was because we coralled him into our home system that had a bubble up and he didn'thave the momentum to start with.. just before he cleared the bubble, we blew him up, good.
Kristoffer Amarr Blackguard Brigade	Posted - 2007.02.27 20:35:00 - [44] Originally by: Nite Angelus You're missing the point of risk verses reward... So if someone invests in excess of 1 billion isk into their battleship then maybe it shouldn't come as too much of a shock if you can't kill it. Nano pilots have a greater risk of flying their ships and getting podded so the reward of being difficult to kill is greater. It is similar to me whining that a drake pilot with a crystal set can out tank my dominix. He shouldn't be able to, after all i'm in a battleship he's in a battlecruiser, my ship should have the better tank right? So by that logic should my vindicator with two bil plus in modules on it shouldn't be able to get killed by a standard nanophoon or domi who's only invested 100mil into his ship right? Oh wait, he sits there and orbits me till my cap dies and I can't ever hit him.
Aramendel Amarr Queens of the Stone Age Anarchy Empire	Posted - 2007.02.27 21:23:00 - [45] Jepp, exactly. It might be a shock to certain people, but if you spend 2 bil on your BS for a non-nano setup and jump into a 5 BS gatecamp you are pretty much dead. Faction/officer fittings can enable you to survive 2 ond even 3 times the odds, but past that they don't help much.
Masempa	Posted - 2007.02.27 21:25:00 - [46] Originally by: Aramendel Jepp, exactly. It might be a shock to certain people, but if you spend 2 bil on your BS for a non-nano setup and jump into a 5 BS gatecamp you are pretty much dead. Faction/officer fittings can enable you to survive 2 ond even 3 times the odds, but past that they don't help much. Ewar and Nos means a faction BS can bearly survive a fight against 1 battleship let alone 4 or 5
Ihar Enda Caldari	Posted - 2007.02.27 21:27:00 - [47] Here's a suggestion: nerf nano BATTLESHIPS, not nanos / istabs.
Mechanikus Gallente	Posted - 2007.02.27 21:39:00 - [48] They could simply just set a limit on the speed of a battleship so that no matter what you do to it, it will only go so fast. This way they don't have to adjust how nano's work, they just make it so that battleships go the speed that they want them to go, which according to the dev blog, they want them to go slower.
Alowishus Shadows of the Dead Aftermath Alliance	Posted - 2007.02.27 21:48:00 - [49] Isn't it lovely that players in this game ASK CCP to punish people for coming up with good ideas? And unfortunately they usually get there way. It's sad that people who get all their setups from "the stickies" and don't realize "the best ship" with the "best setup" won't win 100% of the time are the ones who get to decide what gets nerfed. The mechanics of Eve are controlled by the 99% of people who suck at PvP but are awesome at whining.
sr blackout Minmatar	Posted - 2007.02.27 22:11:00 - [50] some of you people forget that even cruiser sized nano ships can bump ppl off and its very easy to fit those as well... they are not as effective as a nano bs but they sure work that way... or how about any hac or cs? with that fit... when people say nerf nano it doesnt matter how they fix it... they mean this type of fitting, be it improve or change other modules to be able to counter... like i had suggested class sized webbers.. that counter solely the class mwd!! 1mn 10mn 100mn... and they would have accuracy so that a 100mn web would not be very effective at stopping a 1mn fitted ceptor... it would do a fraction of its web strength there are only a few modules in eve that are signature and class size independent and that is BAD, it would be ok if most of them worked on the ship size/mass/sig etc... that is the way the game should be, all but jammers are fine as each ship has different strength due to its size
Nanobotter Mk2	Posted - 2007.02.28 03:21:00 - [51] This seems to be the way EVE keeps going down the crapper. BS keeps getting the tar kicked out of them and none of you have the balls to answer me when the question is presented why is it that a inty or a frigate can orbit a BS staying out of the guns range for like ever unhittable, but heaven forbid a BS can be fitted to do the same thing. This game gets lamers each week as all the whiners keep tearing down BS's because they like to fly cheap little **** boxes and over whelm people with lame blobs. Look it is simple if you want to kill a nano BS FLY ONE. Lord knows a Bs cannot expect to kill a well piloted inty, so wtf MUSt we expect a inty to kill a nanobs? PS no I do not fly NanoBs either. I am usually in a very well tanked BS that slowly get pwned by a bunch of fruits in little cheap ships that i cannot get into my gun range simply because I chose to fly a more expensive ship. Battleships are way to farking nerfed this game is getting dumb where a 500 mill BS is cannon fodder for a handful of 3 mill ships.
Kaar Art of War Cult of War	Posted - 2007.02.28 03:29:00 - [52] Where did all these nano ships come from????? --- ---
Flinx Evenstar Minmatar Momentum. Dusk and Dawn	Posted - 2007.02.28 03:31:00 - [53] Edited by: Flinx Evenstar on 28/02/2007 03:32:33 Nano BS are useless in Fleet combat, by the time the torps or drones even reach the target, the FC is calling out the secondary. They can't do insta damage, they can't tank sentry guns, they dont even make good ratters or mission ships. So how is that overpowered? They are fast, they make good roaming ships, that is what they do... If they were overpowered, they would be great at everything...they are not Edit: ^^ LOVE your vid Kaar, awsome stuff...and the chilli peppers soundtrack....that is one of my all time fav vids mate http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=47466
Ragornok Multiversal Enterprise Inc. Privateer Alliance	Posted - 2007.02.28 03:35:00 - [54] Edited by: Ragornok on 28/02/2007 03:33:38 Originally by: Nanobotter Mk2 This seems to be the way EVE keeps going down the crapper. BS keeps getting the tar kicked out of them and none of you have the balls to answer me when the question is presented why is it that a inty or a frigate can orbit a BS staying out of the guns range for like ever unhittable, but heaven forbid a BS can be fitted to do the same thing. This game gets lamers each week as all the whiners keep tearing down BS's because they like to fly cheap little **** boxes and over whelm people with lame blobs. Look it is simple if you want to kill a nano BS FLY ONE. Lord knows a Bs cannot expect to kill a well piloted inty, so wtf MUSt we expect a inty to kill a nanobs? PS no I do not fly NanoBs either. I am usually in a very well tanked BS that slowly get pwned by a bunch of fruits in little cheap ships that i cannot get into my gun range simply because I chose to fly a more expensive ship. Battleships are way to farking nerfed this game is getting dumb where a 500 mill BS is cannon fodder for a handful of 3 mill ships. It's pretty simple. An interceptor is unhittable and is armed with with a couple small turrets and standard missles. A nano-phoon comes with potentially 5 T2 heavy drones, 4 cruise launchers and whatever he wants to fit in the OTHER 4 high slots, and is unhittable while it gets almost full DPS against you. Throw in a FEW sensor dampners on top of that as well. Plus, interceptors have counters that can be reasonably effective and are readily available. If you can't kill it, you can usually at least drive it off fairly well. It takes pure luck and a heck of a lot of assets to lock down a nano-phoon. An interceptor bumping you at undock will push you a couple KM's. A nano-phoon will push you possibly 125km depending on what you're in. We don't want an inty to be able to kill a battleship. But 3 Battleships, a pair of Minmatar recon's, two interceptors and a battlecruiser SHOULD be able to at least get to hit the thing once in a while.
Ragornok Multiversal Enterprise Inc. Privateer Alliance	Posted - 2007.02.28 03:37:00 - [55] Originally by: Kaar Where did all these nano ships come from????? I believe it originally started with mission-ratting ravens looking for something to fit in place of warp core stabs.
ArtemisEntreri	Posted - 2007.02.28 03:53:00 - [56] Originally by: Ragornok Originally by: Kaar Where did all these nano ships come from????? I believe it originally started with mission-ratting ravens looking for something to fit in place of warp core stabs. He was being sarcastic, he's the one that made if famous in his video way prior to kali

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