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Nanobotter Mk2	Posted - 2007.02.26 23:37:00 - [31] "The OP requested no idiots to post. How do you adapt? nothng can catch them except other nano BS." right but it is okay that the only thing that can catch a tricked out inty is another inty? I mean your lame arguement comes down to the same thing. there is bound to be one ship that is the fastest and the only way to catch that ship will be to fly that ship. Why is it that it should be any different for a nano BS? Look every arguement is lame I have seen. It is all about you don;t want to have to fly a nanoBS to beat one. I see a bunch of spoiled players who are used to having there 1 set up wins all ships and you don;t want to have to alter that to handle a specialized ship. I mean lets be honest, how the hell is a inty blocking the warp droves of a BS? How the hell are frigates and inty's able to not get pwned by a battleship with immensly more fire power? Why are BS supposed to be the one ship able to get pwned by everything and pwn nothing but other BS... It would be a shame if CCP caved to this silly nerf whine. There is a penalty for Nano's they don;t need a stackign penalty. The only thing I could see being reasonable is maybe alter nano mods so they might lower inertia so they are a little more easier to web. Honestly though, scramblers and webbers themselves work to well already. they are essentially 100% activatables, and msot of this whining is because finally there is a ship you cvannot be assured to web with certainty. tip to web a NANO bs you need to be moving fast with it and web.... it will slow down some and you won;t making it unable to get away, but I know that requires special set up and actually piloting your ship isntead of sitting there tapping IWIN buttons.....
Savio Caldari The Knights Of Camelot DeStInY.	Posted - 2007.02.26 23:47:00 - [32] They realy need to nerf the NanoBS.. its just stupid seing a BS going 15km/s or what ever.. just stupid.. BTW recall seing a dev post there they stated they WILL be nerfed... . Need a Sign? Click Here
Haffrage Less than Ideal	Posted - 2007.02.27 00:14:00 - [33] Originally by: Nanobotter Mk2 "The OP requested no idiots to post. How do you adapt? nothng can catch them except other nano BS." right but it is okay that the only thing that can catch a tricked out inty is another inty? I mean your lame arguement comes down to the same thing. there is bound to be one ship that is the fastest and the only way to catch that ship will be to fly that ship. Why is it that it should be any different for a nano BS? Because nano inties can't singlehandedly take out players in EVERY ship class short of a dread, and that's all it comes down to. A nano bs will be able to take out ceptors, af's, cruisers, battlecruisers, battleships, hacs, command ships, recons, and the list goes on as the game expands. Nano ceptors? Well, for one thing, I've literally TANKED T2 precision crows in an ishkur after the thing's killed my drones. It's called balance. The only ceptors with threatening dps have to go in close to deal it, and what happens when you're in close range? Web+nos. If it can't be killed, it shouldn't be too much of a threat on its own. -----
Linium Without Reason FATAL Alliance	Posted - 2007.02.27 17:16:00 - [34] Originally by: Nanobotter Mk2 "The OP requested no idiots to post. How do you adapt? nothng can catch them except other nano BS." right but it is okay that the only thing that can catch a tricked out inty is another inty? I mean your lame arguement comes down to the same thing. there is bound to be one ship that is the fastest and the only way to catch that ship will be to fly that ship. Why is it that it should be any different for a nano BS? Look every arguement is lame I have seen. It is all about you don;t want to have to fly a nanoBS to beat one. I see a bunch of spoiled players who are used to having there 1 set up wins all ships and you don;t want to have to alter that to handle a specialized ship. I mean lets be honest, how the hell is a inty blocking the warp droves of a BS? How the hell are frigates and inty's able to not get pwned by a battleship with immensly more fire power? Why are BS supposed to be the one ship able to get pwned by everything and pwn nothing but other BS... It would be a shame if CCP caved to this silly nerf whine. There is a penalty for Nano's they don;t need a stackign penalty. The only thing I could see being reasonable is maybe alter nano mods so they might lower inertia so they are a little more easier to web. Honestly though, scramblers and webbers themselves work to well already. they are essentially 100% activatables, and msot of this whining is because finally there is a ship you cvannot be assured to web with certainty. tip to web a NANO bs you need to be moving fast with it and web.... it will slow down some and you won;t making it unable to get away, but I know that requires special set up and actually piloting your ship isntead of sitting there tapping IWIN buttons..... I understand the principle of catching a nano bs, it is very easy for ANY ceptor to catch a nano crow or crusader, just get within 10km and stick a web on him. Even if your stilleto or ranis is slower it is still possible catch them due to skills and tactics. My corp mate makes a living out of killing standard missle nano fit crows. It is not possible to do the same to a nano bs however as multiple posters have indicated. Even if a huggy could web a bs to a stop its still not right that only one race, let alone just recons in that race can. Nano BS are a step too far, unsetting the balance between the races and ship classes to sometimes an un-winable level. I only ever ask for a chance to be able to win any battle, this situation is however only winable using another nano bs. ----------------------------------------------------
Nyxus GALAXIAN Rule of Three	Posted - 2007.02.27 17:36:00 - [35] I have to agree with Wizard, an ETA on the nanonerf implementation is greatly needed. And remember kids, Tuxford has ALREADY said that the days of nos/drone/missile bs moving at 10,000m/s is numbered. Thats not "if they are nerfed" it's "when they are nerfed". So the question is how long should we carebear and not bother to pvp with the absurd ships in play. 10 days? 15 days? 30 days? I would really like to have a guesstimate of the timeframe. Otherwise I may just as well give in and buy a nanophoon since the omfgstupidspeeds are ruining pvp gameplay. Nyxus The Gallente ideals of Freedom, Liberty and Equality will be met by the Amarr realities of Lasers, Armor and Battleships.
Sorela Gallente hirr Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2007.02.27 17:49:00 - [36] Personally before they do any nerfing I'd like to see them fix webs and see how that works. The biggest problem with nano BS's specifically is that they don't slow down fast enough. All a web does is kill their max speed and wait for them to lose inertia. Make the web actually slow them down quickly and then it might not be a problem.
Krugerrand 0utbreak	Posted - 2007.02.27 18:05:00 - [37] The biggest fear is that nanos/inertia's being nerfed will also affect the ships that are "meant" to be fast. Why should inties/dictors/other fast ships be nerfed due to the "problem" (I use that lightly) that nanoBS create.
Tsunari	Posted - 2007.02.27 18:49:00 - [38] Edited by: Tsunari on 27/02/2007 18:48:34 I have no problem with BSs going fast. Even really fast. Just having a multi-megaton battleship turning on a dime is stupid. The mathematics and physics when you apply inertial dampeners etc. is flawed. Its like saying you can make a 5 ton semi truck make a 90 degree turn at an intersection going 95 MPH. So i think the correct thing to nerf is the intertial stabs and make them more realistic according to mass of the ship you fit them on. Therefore, for a BS to reach high, even insane speeds, it should take a rather long acceleration period and make turns wider the faster they are going. As for lighter ships, ie. interceptors, should be little or no change as iStabs will be mass dependant. Ever warp into an asteroid with your BS and get bumped off at very high speeds and its hard to turn? That's realistic (xept for the rubber asteroid). Inertial stabs should help but not help to the point where a BS can fly like a frigate. I think there is a use for speed, especially with battleships. Nothing wrong with giving a close range setup an option to be able to charge their opponent effectively, even joust them. But orbiting like an interceptor is an obvious flaw and no argument can say otherwise IMHO.
Turin Caldari RONA Deepspace Rule of Three	Posted - 2007.02.27 19:26:00 - [39] Originally by: Nanobotter Mk2 "People who reply in favor of the nano ships basically are nano ship flyers who dont want their solowtfpwnmobile taken away from them. They are to lazy to get kills in any real way that might risk them. Hint: Remember when CCP took away dual MWD's? Why did they do that? To NERF BATTLESHIP SPEED. Why should this be any differant. Yes, you CAN fit to kill a nanoship. The problem is, that in doing so, you wont kill anything else. so right now you have two choices when fitting for combat. Fit to kill nanoships. Fit to kill everything else." Man so many frigging hypocrites posting. You know the same can be said for anything in eve. you know those pve players you seem to feel you have the right to solowtfbbq when ever you feel like it? Ya well they can fit for their pve or fit for pvp, and that has been 100% okay since day 1. Further more you can fit to kill inty's or fit to kill BS You can fit to kill frigates or fit to kill BS. The only whines we got here are people used to flying cheap disposible fast ships who are no longer 100% safe when jumping on a BS, END OF STORY. Ah.... you must be a nanoshipper. Lame. Of course your going to argue against it. ________________________________________________________
Angelus Riptalon	Posted - 2007.02.27 19:34:00 - [40] Originally by: Wizard At the end of the day.............. Damage mods got stacking peneltys.........good Hardners of any kind got stacking peneltys......good duel mwds got nerfed.........good EW was overpowered so got nerfed...........good Why should nanos etc be any different. You're missing the point of risk verses reward... The cost of stacking a few modules is relatively small. That's why people used to go out in dominix's with a full compliment of ecm. It required few skills, was cheap and was effective. ECM got rightly nerfed. However, i am sure most people have at least once tried to fit their bs with nano's and a MWD to see how fast they go. Yeh for most people, including me, the won't go very fast. Nano ships only become effective when you invest a LOT of isk and time into it. I can assure faction MWD's and a full snake set are little bit more expensive than your standard bs. So if someone invests in excess of 1 billion isk into their battleship then maybe it shouldn't come as too much of a shock if you can't kill it. Nano pilots have a greater risk of flying their ships and getting podded so the reward of being difficult to kill is greater. It is similar to me whining that a drake pilot with a crystal set can out tank my dominix. He shouldn't be able to, after all i'm in a battleship he's in a battlecruiser, my ship should have the better tank right? Ps. The reason you lost your ship in a gatecamp was not because they were moving too fast, it was because you were in a myrmidon and you were up against a dominix, a typhoon and a drake. You were simply outnumbered. Stop being so sour.
Nite Angelus Gallente Warped Mining Gunboat Diplomacy	Posted - 2007.02.27 19:40:00 - [41] Originally by: Wizard At the end of the day.............. Damage mods got stacking peneltys.........good Hardners of any kind got stacking peneltys......good duel mwds got nerfed.........good EW was overpowered so got nerfed...........good Why should nanos etc be any different. You're missing the point of risk verses reward... The cost of stacking a few modules is relatively small. That's why people used to go out in dominix's with a full compliment of ecm. It required few skills, was cheap and was effective. ECM got rightly nerfed. However, i am sure most people have at least once tried to fit their bs with nano's and a MWD to see how fast they go. Yeh for most people, including me, the won't go very fast. Nano ships only become effective when you invest a LOT of isk and time into it. I can assure faction MWD's and a full snake set are little bit more expensive than your standard bs. So if someone invests in excess of 1 billion isk into their battleship then maybe it shouldn't come as too much of a shock if you can't kill it. Nano pilots have a greater risk of flying their ships and getting podded so the reward of being difficult to kill is greater. It is similar to me whining that a drake pilot with a crystal set can out tank my dominix. He shouldn't be able to, after all i'm in a battleship he's in a battlecruiser, my ship should have the better tank right? Ps. The reason you lost your ship in a gatecamp was not because they were moving too fast, it was because you were in a myrmidon and you were up against a dominix, a typhoon and a drake. You were simply outnumbered. Stop being so sour.
jaezebelle Gallente ORB enterprises	Posted - 2007.02.27 19:48:00 - [42] Take a person with maxed missile skill using a ship with a bonus for missile speed fitted with whatever implants he can get to make them go even faster and that missiles speed IMHO is the cap they should put on any ship being able travell at. The reasoning is missiles are just propellent and a guidance system and therefore alot more simpler design than the shps that fire them. I think that it should be reduced further by ship size etc so the fastest would be intis and the slowest BS sized craft. In the meantime untill they are changed I shall carry on using them along with other ships I enjoy flying!
Force Works Amarr	Posted - 2007.02.27 20:10:00 - [43] I was a part of a Nano-thron kill... Basically was me (inty) and about 4 others-inty,bs,bs,cruiser) to take him down. Problem was that no one could keep up with him.. Only reason we go em was because we coralled him into our home system that had a bubble up and he didn'thave the momentum to start with.. just before he cleared the bubble, we blew him up, good.
Kristoffer Amarr Blackguard Brigade	Posted - 2007.02.27 20:35:00 - [44] Originally by: Nite Angelus You're missing the point of risk verses reward... So if someone invests in excess of 1 billion isk into their battleship then maybe it shouldn't come as too much of a shock if you can't kill it. Nano pilots have a greater risk of flying their ships and getting podded so the reward of being difficult to kill is greater. It is similar to me whining that a drake pilot with a crystal set can out tank my dominix. He shouldn't be able to, after all i'm in a battleship he's in a battlecruiser, my ship should have the better tank right? So by that logic should my vindicator with two bil plus in modules on it shouldn't be able to get killed by a standard nanophoon or domi who's only invested 100mil into his ship right? Oh wait, he sits there and orbits me till my cap dies and I can't ever hit him.
Aramendel Amarr Queens of the Stone Age Anarchy Empire	Posted - 2007.02.27 21:23:00 - [45] Jepp, exactly. It might be a shock to certain people, but if you spend 2 bil on your BS for a non-nano setup and jump into a 5 BS gatecamp you are pretty much dead. Faction/officer fittings can enable you to survive 2 ond even 3 times the odds, but past that they don't help much.
Masempa	Posted - 2007.02.27 21:25:00 - [46] Originally by: Aramendel Jepp, exactly. It might be a shock to certain people, but if you spend 2 bil on your BS for a non-nano setup and jump into a 5 BS gatecamp you are pretty much dead. Faction/officer fittings can enable you to survive 2 ond even 3 times the odds, but past that they don't help much. Ewar and Nos means a faction BS can bearly survive a fight against 1 battleship let alone 4 or 5
Ihar Enda Caldari	Posted - 2007.02.27 21:27:00 - [47] Here's a suggestion: nerf nano BATTLESHIPS, not nanos / istabs.
Mechanikus Gallente	Posted - 2007.02.27 21:39:00 - [48] They could simply just set a limit on the speed of a battleship so that no matter what you do to it, it will only go so fast. This way they don't have to adjust how nano's work, they just make it so that battleships go the speed that they want them to go, which according to the dev blog, they want them to go slower.
Alowishus Shadows of the Dead Aftermath Alliance	Posted - 2007.02.27 21:48:00 - [49] Isn't it lovely that players in this game ASK CCP to punish people for coming up with good ideas? And unfortunately they usually get there way. It's sad that people who get all their setups from "the stickies" and don't realize "the best ship" with the "best setup" won't win 100% of the time are the ones who get to decide what gets nerfed. The mechanics of Eve are controlled by the 99% of people who suck at PvP but are awesome at whining.
sr blackout Minmatar	Posted - 2007.02.27 22:11:00 - [50] some of you people forget that even cruiser sized nano ships can bump ppl off and its very easy to fit those as well... they are not as effective as a nano bs but they sure work that way... or how about any hac or cs? with that fit... when people say nerf nano it doesnt matter how they fix it... they mean this type of fitting, be it improve or change other modules to be able to counter... like i had suggested class sized webbers.. that counter solely the class mwd!! 1mn 10mn 100mn... and they would have accuracy so that a 100mn web would not be very effective at stopping a 1mn fitted ceptor... it would do a fraction of its web strength there are only a few modules in eve that are signature and class size independent and that is BAD, it would be ok if most of them worked on the ship size/mass/sig etc... that is the way the game should be, all but jammers are fine as each ship has different strength due to its size
Nanobotter Mk2	Posted - 2007.02.28 03:21:00 - [51] This seems to be the way EVE keeps going down the crapper. BS keeps getting the tar kicked out of them and none of you have the balls to answer me when the question is presented why is it that a inty or a frigate can orbit a BS staying out of the guns range for like ever unhittable, but heaven forbid a BS can be fitted to do the same thing. This game gets lamers each week as all the whiners keep tearing down BS's because they like to fly cheap little **** boxes and over whelm people with lame blobs. Look it is simple if you want to kill a nano BS FLY ONE. Lord knows a Bs cannot expect to kill a well piloted inty, so wtf MUSt we expect a inty to kill a nanobs? PS no I do not fly NanoBs either. I am usually in a very well tanked BS that slowly get pwned by a bunch of fruits in little cheap ships that i cannot get into my gun range simply because I chose to fly a more expensive ship. Battleships are way to farking nerfed this game is getting dumb where a 500 mill BS is cannon fodder for a handful of 3 mill ships.
Kaar Art of War Cult of War	Posted - 2007.02.28 03:29:00 - [52] Where did all these nano ships come from????? --- ---
Flinx Evenstar Minmatar Momentum. Dusk and Dawn	Posted - 2007.02.28 03:31:00 - [53] Edited by: Flinx Evenstar on 28/02/2007 03:32:33 Nano BS are useless in Fleet combat, by the time the torps or drones even reach the target, the FC is calling out the secondary. They can't do insta damage, they can't tank sentry guns, they dont even make good ratters or mission ships. So how is that overpowered? They are fast, they make good roaming ships, that is what they do... If they were overpowered, they would be great at everything...they are not Edit: ^^ LOVE your vid Kaar, awsome stuff...and the chilli peppers soundtrack....that is one of my all time fav vids mate http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=47466
Ragornok Multiversal Enterprise Inc. Privateer Alliance	Posted - 2007.02.28 03:35:00 - [54] Edited by: Ragornok on 28/02/2007 03:33:38 Originally by: Nanobotter Mk2 This seems to be the way EVE keeps going down the crapper. BS keeps getting the tar kicked out of them and none of you have the balls to answer me when the question is presented why is it that a inty or a frigate can orbit a BS staying out of the guns range for like ever unhittable, but heaven forbid a BS can be fitted to do the same thing. This game gets lamers each week as all the whiners keep tearing down BS's because they like to fly cheap little **** boxes and over whelm people with lame blobs. Look it is simple if you want to kill a nano BS FLY ONE. Lord knows a Bs cannot expect to kill a well piloted inty, so wtf MUSt we expect a inty to kill a nanobs? PS no I do not fly NanoBs either. I am usually in a very well tanked BS that slowly get pwned by a bunch of fruits in little cheap ships that i cannot get into my gun range simply because I chose to fly a more expensive ship. Battleships are way to farking nerfed this game is getting dumb where a 500 mill BS is cannon fodder for a handful of 3 mill ships. It's pretty simple. An interceptor is unhittable and is armed with with a couple small turrets and standard missles. A nano-phoon comes with potentially 5 T2 heavy drones, 4 cruise launchers and whatever he wants to fit in the OTHER 4 high slots, and is unhittable while it gets almost full DPS against you. Throw in a FEW sensor dampners on top of that as well. Plus, interceptors have counters that can be reasonably effective and are readily available. If you can't kill it, you can usually at least drive it off fairly well. It takes pure luck and a heck of a lot of assets to lock down a nano-phoon. An interceptor bumping you at undock will push you a couple KM's. A nano-phoon will push you possibly 125km depending on what you're in. We don't want an inty to be able to kill a battleship. But 3 Battleships, a pair of Minmatar recon's, two interceptors and a battlecruiser SHOULD be able to at least get to hit the thing once in a while.
Ragornok Multiversal Enterprise Inc. Privateer Alliance	Posted - 2007.02.28 03:37:00 - [55] Originally by: Kaar Where did all these nano ships come from????? I believe it originally started with mission-ratting ravens looking for something to fit in place of warp core stabs.
ArtemisEntreri	Posted - 2007.02.28 03:53:00 - [56] Originally by: Ragornok Originally by: Kaar Where did all these nano ships come from????? I believe it originally started with mission-ratting ravens looking for something to fit in place of warp core stabs. He was being sarcastic, he's the one that made if famous in his video way prior to kali

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