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Iowa Banshee
Fenrir Vangard Wiking Were Wabbits
87
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Posted - 2016.05.24 18:05:59 -
[1] - Quote
Look at it as balancing the asset loss / lack of sovereignty.
A true replacement for the SMA. |
Eva Ambrosa
Bros Before Holes The Devils' Rejects
6
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Posted - 2016.05.24 21:17:23 -
[2] - Quote
No... just use a large. |
Tsukino Stareine
Art Of Explosions 404 Hole Not Found
1479
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Posted - 2016.05.24 22:16:28 -
[3] - Quote
risk vs reward
why should you pay 20x less for the privilege to dock your capitals |
Mister Holder
Faceless Men Separatists
40
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Posted - 2016.05.24 22:36:17 -
[4] - Quote
Tsukino Stareine wrote:risk vs reward
why should you pay 20x less for the privilege to dock your capitals
Because a POS is 20x less, and allows you to essentially dock it. |
Gadher
Hidden Agenda Deep Space Engineering
2
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Posted - 2016.05.24 22:37:29 -
[5] - Quote
Tsukino Stareine wrote:risk vs reward
why should you pay 20x less for the privilege to dock your capitals
Once they remove pos's I guess it come down to the question of not be able to do what they can today. With store a cap inside a pos sma and the cost difference is quite large between that ability now and invest into a large citadel.
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Obil Que
Star Explorers Reckoning Star Alliance
400
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Posted - 2016.05.25 13:21:28 -
[6] - Quote
Mister Holder wrote:Tsukino Stareine wrote:risk vs reward
why should you pay 20x less for the privilege to dock your capitals Because a POS is 20x less, and allows you to essentially dock it.
From CCPs perspective, the POS is imbalanced in regard to cost/benefit. Welcome to the new age |
Tsukino Stareine
Art Of Explosions 404 Hole Not Found
1485
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Posted - 2016.05.25 13:32:09 -
[7] - Quote
Mister Holder wrote:Tsukino Stareine wrote:risk vs reward
why should you pay 20x less for the privilege to dock your capitals Because a POS is 20x less, and allows you to essentially dock it.
There are so many disadvantages to putting a cap in a pos vs a citadel:
1. POS can be bubble wrapped 2. Requires one regular SMA per cap or an X-L which means fitting room reduction 3. POS does not rep your capitals 4. Can't swap clones to capital implants in a POS |
Iowa Banshee
Fenrir Vangard Wiking Were Wabbits
87
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Posted - 2016.05.25 14:46:12 -
[8] - Quote
I get the impression that these ships were originally intended to "moor" alongside the medium but I guess between Spring & Eve-Vegas CCP decided it was too difficult and dropped the idea - but forgot that mooring was to replace this POS feature
Anyway why not let them dock - its not like there is any asset safety in a wormhole so they are just as vulnerable as they were in a SMA |
Derath Ellecon
Washburne Holdings
2402
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Posted - 2016.05.25 16:10:15 -
[9] - Quote
Iowa Banshee wrote: EDIT - Many small corps will struggle to defend a mediums vulnerability window how can they be expected to defend a large just to avoid a Rorqual becoming a space prison cell when at present it can be parked in a SMA waiting to be dusted off for the occasional mining op.
There are so many things wrong with that statement... |
Iowa Banshee
Fenrir Vangard Wiking Were Wabbits
87
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Posted - 2016.05.25 16:52:05 -
[10] - Quote
Derath Ellecon wrote:Iowa Banshee wrote: EDIT - Many small corps will struggle to defend a mediums vulnerability window how can they be expected to defend a large just to avoid a Rorqual becoming a space prison cell when at present it can be parked in a SMA waiting to be dusted off for the occasional mining op.
There are so many things wrong with that statement...
...from your point of view
but thanks for your input - its always nice to see people who play the game their way pointing out how the way others play Eve is wrong. |
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Gosti Kahanid
Raiders of the Space Brotherhood Of Silent Space
98
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Posted - 2016.05.28 22:53:16 -
[11] - Quote
I think there should be an station-service for medium citadels which will give the citadel the ability to dock a limited amount of capitals, kinda like the XL-MA, maybe that you can even see on the outside. With this you have to pay fuel just to be able to store your capitals, and you can-Št store an infinite amount of capitals like you can with the large citadel |
NoobMan
Hard Knocks Inc. Hard Knocks Citizens
256
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Posted - 2016.05.30 12:11:47 -
[12] - Quote
I'll take a guess of why CCP will never do this.
Art.
Doesn't have a capital undocking bay.
Operations Director of Hard K(n)ocks Inc.
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Paul Vashar
Periphery Bound New Signature
82
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Posted - 2016.05.30 19:14:00 -
[13] - Quote
NoobMan wrote:I'll take a guess of why CCP will never do this.
Art.
Doesn't have a capital undocking bay. I hear that somebody does however |
Iowa Banshee
Fenrir Vangard Wiking Were Wabbits
89
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Posted - 2016.05.31 14:16:00 -
[14] - Quote
NoobMan wrote:I'll take a guess of why CCP will never do this.
Art.
Doesn't have a capital undocking bay.
If it's about the art - no docking - but the Citadels still have the original mooring docks as show in the concept sketches
Can have the ability to MOOR a couple of ships - because of Art ? |
Hatshepsut IV
Un.Reasonable
379
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Posted - 2016.05.31 16:29:06 -
[15] - Quote
Adapt or die.
Or unpoor and dock. Its not that hard really. If you cant afford to put up/fit/protect a fort then you certainty can't afford to do all those things properly for that c2 ratting thanny your so worried about.
Public Channel | Un.Welcome
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Andrew Jester
Collapsed Out Pandemic Legion
1655
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Posted - 2016.05.31 18:58:08 -
[16] - Quote
lol get nerfed shonen
If thuggin' was a category I'd win a Grammy
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Iowa Banshee
Fenrir Vangard Wiking Were Wabbits
89
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Posted - 2016.05.31 20:56:32 -
[17] - Quote
Hatshepsut IV wrote:Adapt or die.
Or unpoor and dock. Its not that hard really. If you cant afford to put up/fit/protect a fort then you certainty can't afford to do all those things properly for that c2 ratting thanny your so worried about.
You misunderstand: I was not talking about the large citadel designed to be used by "large corps" & "mulit-player alliances".
I was talking the medium "Solo" "Small corp" version of the Citadels - You know - the one CCP were talking about during the citadel round table when they said "We have not forgotten about you solo players and small groups, EVERYTHING you can do in a POS you will be able to do in the new structures"
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Hatshepsut IV
Un.Reasonable
379
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Posted - 2016.05.31 21:01:29 -
[18] - Quote
Iowa Banshee wrote:
You misunderstand:
No I didn't.
Let me be EXPLICTLY clear.
If you want to dock caps HTFU open the wallet and put a fortizar down. If you can not do this due to whatever made up reason, then you likely have no business A owning caps in that hole and B couldn't likely do anything to protect them.
Also no ones stopping you from having them safe logged with sitter characters ect ect.
I'm poor/small corp/new ect is not a valid reason to ask special allowances.
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Iowa Banshee
Fenrir Vangard Wiking Were Wabbits
89
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Posted - 2016.05.31 21:39:39 -
[19] - Quote
Hatshepsut IV wrote:Iowa Banshee wrote:
You misunderstand:
No I did not. Allow me to be EXPLICTLY clear. If you want to dock caps HTFU open the wallet and put a fortizar down. If you can not do this due to whatever made up reason, then you likely have no business A owning caps in that hole and B couldn't likely do anything to protect them. Also no ones stopping you from having them safe logged with sitter characters ect ect. I'm poor/small corp/new ect is not a valid reason to ask special allowances.
"Explicitly" is spelt with an "i" and the text editor has a spell checker
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Hatshepsut IV
Un.Reasonable
379
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Posted - 2016.05.31 22:49:29 -
[20] - Quote
Iowa Banshee wrote: "Explicitly" is spelt with an "i" and the text editor has a spell checker
So you concede the point?
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helana Tsero
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
512
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Posted - 2016.05.31 23:48:07 -
[21] - Quote
At first I thought this was a nice nerf to the farmholes.. with the astrahus replacing all those true sansha POS... eg now the farmholes would need a character per cap + extra characters for rolling/scouting etc. (and maybe they might need to recruit and become an actual corp instead of a single guy with 4 alts)
but then I realized all the astrahus restriction is going to do.. is encourage the farmer to join the big blocs.
Because to keep the same minimal character setup they enjoy today.. the farmholes will need a fortizar.. and their best bet will be to join a large alliance and do their farming under a large alliance safety umbrella. Because attackers are not going to blowup a farmhole if they know a 50 man blob is going to show up to defend it... and then knock on their own door a few weeks later.
Thumbs up CCP ! Your successfully turning wormhole space into SOV.
"... ppl need to get out of caves and they will see something new... thats where eve is placed... not in cave..." | zoonr-Korsairs | QFT !
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Hatshepsut IV
Un.Reasonable
379
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Posted - 2016.06.01 01:35:34 -
[22] - Quote
helana Tsero wrote:...but then I realized all the astrahus restriction is going to do.. is encourage the farmer to join the big blocs....Thumbs up CCP ! Your successfully turning wormhole space into SOV....
HOLY ****, like wtf 11ty pwn with a doomsday are you full of it. Have you like ever interacted with a SINGLE actual wormhole corp?
Lets be real here, just to clarify. Putting capitals into a medium citadel will not keep them safe. Its trivial to RF and bother a medium citadel. Knowing there can be potential capital loot pi+Šatas inside them will just entice scary worm people to poke the nest.
Second. Those bear holes your so worried about, gonna let you in on a secret. THEY ARE ALREADY FREAKING PART OF A GROUP. Either overtly or on the side.
I'm just gonna make an assumption, your posting from an NPC alt....
You either are in something like freaking wingspan or just have plain never been in a wormhole corp. Know the last thing wormholers give a **** about? Defending some helpless/hapless/clueless bears farmhole.
No self respecting wormhole corp is gonna just take in a bunch of worthless bears to herd/protect from pvp cause they are too poor to throw up a fortizar.
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helana Tsero
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
513
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Posted - 2016.06.01 06:35:16 -
[23] - Quote
Hatshepsut IV wrote:helana Tsero wrote:...but then I realized all the astrahus restriction is going to do.. is encourage the farmer to join the big blocs....Thumbs up CCP ! Your successfully turning wormhole space into SOV.... HOLY ****, like wtf 11ty pwn with a doomsday are you full of it. Have you like ever interacted with a SINGLE actual wormhole corp? Lets be real here, just to clarify. Putting capitals into a medium citadel will not keep them safe. Its trivial to RF and bother a medium citadel. Knowing there can be potential capital loot pi+Šatas inside them will just entice scary worm people to poke the nest. Second. Those bear holes your so worried about, gonna let you in on a secret. THEY ARE ALREADY FREAKING PART OF A GROUP. Either overtly or on the side. I'm just gonna make an assumption, your posting from an NPC alt.... You either are in something like freaking wingspan or just have plain never been in a wormhole corp. Know the last thing wormholers give a **** about? Defending some helpless/hapless/clueless bears farmhole. No self respecting wormhole corp is gonna just take in a bunch of worthless bears to herd/protect from pvp cause they are too poor to throw up a fortizar.
Calm down man lol.. don't do yourself an injury.
Lets say your a guy who wants to farm in c5 / c6 space. You can set up by yourself and hope no one comes in and kicks the door down. Or you could put a pvp toon in one of the major alliances and then setup your farm hole under their protection umbrella.
The smart ones already do...
Now with POS's going away the slower ones are either going to have to pony up for a fortizar and defend it themselves which they wont be able to do..or get more toons cause they cant put their caps in the FF while they roll with BS etc (more toons cuts into isk making) or join a alliance and have protection for their farm hole for the cost of one extra pvp toon.
Right now if a independent farmer gets invaded he logs off caps, throws everything he can carry into a orca with a spare pos in the cargo and then logs off until the invader goes. Then when they leave he puts another POS up and starts farming again. They not going to do that if they have to lose a 26 billion fortizar each time.
As for your claim that alliances wont defend the farmholes. They not going to rush to defend if a PVE cap or two gets ganked but if someone is taking down their members farmholes then they will do something about it. This happened just recently when HK invaded duralex cause they were attacking HK members farms. (and there is nothing wrong with that.. they are defending their isk making ability upon which their pvp and other stuff is built.)
"... ppl need to get out of caves and they will see something new... thats where eve is placed... not in cave..." | zoonr-Korsairs | QFT !
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Hatshepsut IV
Un.Reasonable
381
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Posted - 2016.06.01 07:12:35 -
[24] - Quote
helana Tsero wrote: Now with POS's going away the slower ones are either going to have to pony up for a fortizar and defend it themselves which they wont be able to do..or get more toons cause they cant put their caps in the FF while they roll with BS etc (more toons cuts into isk making) or join a alliance and have protection for their farm hole fortizar for the cost of one extra pvp toon.
Right now if a independent farmer gets invaded he logs off caps, throws everything he can carry into a orca with a spare pos in the cargo and then logs off until the invader goes. Then when they leave he puts another POS up and starts farming again. They not going to do that if they have to lose a 26 billion fortizar each time.
I'm failing to see where ANY of that is a bad thing.
Everything your saying boils down to the fact you want your farm hole to be safe/risk free but you don't or won't spend the time/isk/effort to do so yourself so your asking CCP to automagically let you have your cake and eat it.
Quote:As for your claim that alliances wont defend the farmholes
You not getting the point, you seem to think that there will be some mass exodus of bears into pvp corps to get protection............
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helana Tsero
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
513
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Posted - 2016.06.01 07:24:24 -
[25] - Quote
Hatshepsut IV wrote: You not getting the point, you seem to think that there will be some mass exodus of bears into pvp corps to get protection............
Some will. Some will also leave wormhole space to do incursions etc. I don't think many will stick around as small independent farm corps in higher class space.
Im a fan of small - medium size corps in wormholes. Ive got nothing against bigger corps who build a empire.. the mechanics allow it .. so why not.. But I just think wormholes are healthier when there are smaller groups rather than large sov like blocs.
"... ppl need to get out of caves and they will see something new... thats where eve is placed... not in cave..." | zoonr-Korsairs | QFT !
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Iowa Banshee
Fenrir Vangard Wiking Were Wabbits
89
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Posted - 2016.06.01 17:27:59 -
[26] - Quote
This is not asking for something that can't be done already - I'm not saying I have a Titan and a player that can't do anything other that sit in it so allow me to dock and while you're at it make sure I cannot loose it when the place gets blown up.
I'm saying don't take away an existing mechanic and then tell me if you want to continue to do this then buy something 20x the cost especially since a medium Citadel was supposed to be the thing to buy to take over this game mechanic for solo players & small groups.
People here are not saying we don't want this because it affects them, they are saying we want CCP to take something away from other players because they don't play the game like us - that' s the "p iss on the fire because our smoores are done" attitude of a bigot. |
Iowa Banshee
Fenrir Vangard Wiking Were Wabbits
89
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Posted - 2016.06.01 18:11:52 -
[27] - Quote
helana Tsero wrote:At first I thought this was a nice nerf to the farmholes.. with the astrahus replacing all those true sansha POS... eg now the farmholes would need a character per cap + extra characters for rolling/scouting etc. (and maybe they might need to recruit and become an actual corp instead of a single guy with 4 alts) but then I realized all the astrahus restriction is going to do.. is encourage the farmer to join the big blocs. Because to keep the same minimal character setup they enjoy today.. the farmholes will need a fortizar.. and their best bet will be to join a large alliance and do their farming under a large alliance safety umbrella. Because attackers are not going to blowup a farmhole if they know a 50 man blob is going to show up to defend it... and then knock on their own door a few weeks later. Thumbs up CCP ! Your successfully turning wormhole space into SOV.
It's not going to force our small group into joining a big bloc :- The character that used to do pi, pvp, pve, rolling wormholes and the hauling of goods to market etc will sit in a single ship unused for most of the time.
Together two unskilled alts will make less ISK because why risk a Rorqual to jump in an Epithal to do a pi run. Switching to a combat ship to fight visitors will be a non-started so little or no PVP. Without the skills of the main the ALTS having a few million sp each will only be able to do a fraction of what the main could and our online activity will drop significantly
- EVE will become less fun and more of a chore
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Andrew Jester
Collapsed Out Pandemic Legion
1655
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Posted - 2016.06.01 18:42:15 -
[28] - Quote
Hatshepsut IV wrote:Iowa Banshee wrote: "Explicitly" is spelt with an "i" and the text editor has a spell checker So you concede the point? you fuggin' dunked him dw
If thuggin' was a category I'd win a Grammy
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Bleedingthrough
206
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Posted - 2016.06.03 14:49:40 -
[29] - Quote
I want something to store capital ships that does not cost as much as a super. I think a fuel requiring service module for small citadels that can store a limited amount of capitals would be a valid solution. |
Hatshepsut IV
Un.Reasonable
381
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Posted - 2016.06.03 21:30:27 -
[30] - Quote
So train a sitter character.
Loggoff.
Problem solved.
Stop looking for a ******* handout to fix your made up problems.
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