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Bloggers #55, TomB on Invention, Datacores, Research and more

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kieron	Posted - 2007.03.03 15:43:00 - [1] Following up on Oveur's blog concerning the the lottery system, TomB has a new Blog with even more information. What information? Datacores, drop rates, market pricing, research agents and that is just the start of the experiment. So, check it out, then get back here to leave your thoughts. Invention goes on...but where does the lottery go? kieron Community Manager, EVE Online

CyberChick The Ghost Riders Hydra Alliance	Posted - 2007.03.03 15:52:00 - [2] I know that the subject of existing bpo's has been replied to in the lottery post, but isn't this still going reinforce those that have the bpo's position? Couldn't you consider the idea of seeding bpo's at insane prices i.e. interceptor at 15bil isk and escalating, so that profits from invention becomes the means to one day getting a bpo and no longer having to work with -me/-pe values?
Richard Masterson FW Inc Kith of Venal	Posted - 2007.03.03 15:55:00 - [3] Edited by: Richard Masterson on 03/03/2007 15:52:30 I'm wondering just how you will combat isk farming with this new method. For example: One account can have 3 characters on it. They can all be research-viable in about 1-2 months, depending on character selection and creation. So within 6 months, you have 3 characters whose sole function is to research for datacores. The owner of the account doesn't even have to mine, browse the market, npc, or try to raise cash. In fact, they don't even have to log in! Said owner of account checks characters, and when they have the appropriate amount of datacores, cashes them in, meets another alt somewhere in space, trades, and isk flows in. No paper trail, no effort, no risk. This is potentially happening right now, but current mechanics make it a little more time-and-effort intensive to pull off. I see you adding "features" that are potentially problematic, when you should really be fixing the "features" that you have finally acknowledged to be "bugs."
Gerome Doutrande 4S Corporation Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2007.03.03 16:00:00 - [4] Any chance you could allow remotely paying out datacores for us lazy 0.0 types?
Gridcrash	Posted - 2007.03.03 16:23:00 - [5] Any solution that completely eliminates the chance of a BPO is going to be very harshly viewed by the playerbase. -Grid
Dibble Dabble	Posted - 2007.03.03 16:23:00 - [6] Still no news on what you plan to do with the existing T2 BPO's. My guess is you either don't know or will simply not tell us.
Nifel Caldari Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.03.03 16:27:00 - [7] So when can we start working for our T2 BPO:s? T2 BPOs that cost in the excess of 20+b (or hell... 50+b) ISK/material's worth as well as serious time commitment would make it the players' market where you could actually compete on serious terms. "When I die I want to die peacefully in my sleep like my grandpa. Not yelling and screaming like the passengers in his car." RKK Ranking: Sama
Grytok	Posted - 2007.03.03 16:37:00 - [8] OK, so you make Invention cheaper, or let's say more achievable then now. But what's about leveling the playing-fields between those who allready have T2-BPOs, and those who will never get the chance to get one, if you just stop the Lottery? I suppose, that you leave the Lottery as it is, and make Invention a second way, to get hands on T2. .
indig0 An Eye For An Eye	Posted - 2007.03.03 16:37:00 - [9] That's nice and all tweaking invention to be more practical and maybe after this I will give it a shot. As people are already pointing out there has been no comment on the fate of existing T2 BPO's. If they are left in game then they will be worth even more since they are no hassle (ignoring ISK needed to acquire). What I would suggest is that as other have suggested make them available on the market for high prices OR you make it so that when you do invention there is a very slim % that your job will actually result in a T2 BPO not just a copy! This % could be tweaked on your end in order to balance the amount of these originals that are active in the game. Doing this would be kind of like a lottery but it would make invention that much more appealing while at the same time having BPC's introduced in the game to keep the market stable.
Fergus Runkle	Posted - 2007.03.03 16:43:00 - [10] As an inventor I'm As a holder of a few hundred thousand RP's I'm This ought to make things interesting anyway. Just a couple of questions First, why when invention was first released were people getting 40-90 runs from a successful module invention job and now the numbers seem to be 14-19 ? Second, where have the drops for the Minmatar decryptors gone ? they used to drop in the COSMOS complex but they stopped a couple of patches ago. These things are still used to build the COSMOS items as well remember. Thanks

0raven0 Dark-Rising Fallen Souls	Posted - 2007.03.03 16:43:00 - [11] 9th woot. ------
Nylian Amarr	Posted - 2007.03.03 16:46:00 - [12] First link in Oveur's post not working - I'm totally excited. :)
Ruffio Sepico Minmatar Hidden Agenda Deep Space Engineering	Posted - 2007.03.03 17:12:00 - [13] Would be nice if the devs took a look at decryptors too. Like the missing assembly instructions... Home: http://www.hidden-agenda.co.uk
Templer Relleg x13 Privateer Alliance	Posted - 2007.03.03 17:22:00 - [14] Kisses and hugs to TomB. Now make me able to invent Vagabonds cheaply But i trust you that its only a matter of time.
Quutar Caldari Auraxian Irregulars The Sundering	Posted - 2007.03.03 17:25:00 - [15] will we be able to invent ammo? Drones? Exhumers? will the ice miner I and strip miner I BPO be seeded? Not finding research slots in Empire Space? Try Quutar Research Services.
Razvedchitsa	Posted - 2007.03.03 18:04:00 - [16] Edited by: Razvedchitsa on 03/03/2007 18:01:40 Originally by: Richard Masterson Edited by: Richard Masterson on 03/03/2007 15:52:30 I'm wondering just how you will combat isk farming with this new method. For example: One account can have 3 characters on it. They can all be research-viable in about 1-2 months, depending on character selection and creation. So within 6 months, you have 3 characters whose sole function is to research for datacores. The owner of the account doesn't even have to mine, browse the market, npc, or try to raise cash. In fact, they don't even have to log in! Said owner of account checks characters, and when they have the appropriate amount of datacores, cashes them in, meets another alt somewhere in space, trades, and isk flows in. No paper trail, no effort, no risk. This is potentially happening right now, but current mechanics make it a little more time-and-effort intensive to pull off. I see you adding "features" that are potentially problematic, when you should really be fixing the "features" that you have finally acknowledged to be "bugs." and your point is? This will lead to more cash for CCP, lower datacore prices and lower t2 prices overal. Whats wrong with that? Besides RP whoring been happening for years now... I know at least 3 persons with 3 accounts speacily for that. Why should it change?
TotensBurntCorpse Minmatar Miners of Moria Corp	Posted - 2007.03.03 18:09:00 - [17] Well i will try to get into invention. Given I have over 500,000 RPs spread thru several characters I can see where RP farming can become an exploit, so you guys need to watch this carefully. (no they are all separate characters not low skills alts - ie multiple accounts as i love eve). For mechanical engineering I have over 50K RPs there so NO i dont swing for the fence in the ships BPOs. I would be happy with a nice low end module BPO. Now that your eliminating the T2 lottery and I am sure that I am one of MANY ppl who get heavy into BPO research and BPC manufacture. Seeing of the cores in low sec (my thoughts on that were listed elsewhere aka gankland) and 0.0 to me only means the ppl who could afford to buy seeded lottery BPOs now have the vast majority of the access to the materials for invention. Is this another enticement for risk vs rewards??? If I follow the way the game is going then industrial skills, science skills, trade skills all seem to becoming the orphened child of eve. Combat is first and foremost, and given most eve players stick around for a year or so and learning alone takes almost 2months (2milsps)that makes most player ditch eve about 8-12mil sps into the game. A decent industrial character takes over 3mil sps, a decent researcher takes over 4mil sps, a decent trader takes over 2mil sps. Pick one cuz when u throw in 4-5mil sps in combat and ships your left with the average 1yr player being at 4combat+2learn+(now fill in blank as your either industrial, trade or research as you will quit before you get good at all three). I consider myself a pve player with commerce being my pvp, but still i have over 17mil in combat skills. I am not saying make invention easy, I am saying make invention worth while. Being the recipient of only one T2 BPO (gneiss T2 crystals anyone) the lottery has been for me a waste of skill points (as most other ppl would agree). Why have invention at all? Given the companies MAKE the BPOs why not just make RPs the MONEY you buy crappy level BPCs with??? reasons... 1) you can limit the "sales" to be automated NPC auctions vs RPs (sure ppl banked win for the short term but EVERYONE can get in on it) 2) you can limit the numbers of bpcs up per period 3) you can tier the bidding process such that ex... level one agents only have a - f on the list, level two agents have g - m, level three n - q and level four r -z where the letters are the ranges of offered items for that agent level.... ie for ships for instance (everyone drools over ships) level 1 agents are only frigs T2 bpcs, level 2 are haulers, and low end cruisers, level 3 are high end cruisers and level 4s are everything else. same thing with modules etc (ex an ass frig could be 50Klps for a bpc but a small shield boost 2 could be 10k lps for the bpc) in this way doing agent missions for rnd agents mean something and ppl would have a reason to not just shoot for the level 4s and swing for the fence as they do now 4) invention could become just a very specialized system to get stuff for an agent for bonus RPs 5) everyone no matter their skills can conceivably get into T2 now (with exorbient prices on RPs tho) 6) BPOs existing are a major issue as the end of a lottery means they will effectively control the economy and the priceless BPOs now become beyond priceless as no effort will be needed to be in T2 working forward from that standpoint. Could they be changed to high run but finite documents? This isnt a leveling the playing field comment. Basically this is you are planing to change the playing field entirely and the economic models previously used no longer may be valid. Invention as it stands IMHO will lead to floods of ppl going for the high profit items flooding the markets on them (comparatively). 7) and i speak for alot of ppl i know on this point, Can you clearly give us a manual on how to do invention? Skill effects, chances etc??? Trial and error methods are expensive and irritating. TotensBurntCorpse Likes EVE, Starfleet Command Series, Earth & Beyond, Anything Battlefield, MOHAA, Call of Duty. Dislikes Not much.
Shadowsword COLSUP Tau Ceti Federation	Posted - 2007.03.03 18:10:00 - [18] That's great, most of the problems plaguing Invention are going to be solved. Only 2 things left: Decryptor description unclear and shortage of some decryptors (only one is worth using right now)... ------------------------------------------ Every ship has a base 60-70% resist against the primary damage type of the race that is the least able to vary it's damage types.
Slash Harnet Minmatar Industrial Services INC	Posted - 2007.03.03 18:24:00 - [19] Anything that fixes the Covert Ops cloak is a win in my book. I just hope this doesn't make some module prices worse. signature removed ... Pirlouit I finally got my sig nerfed once, I feel like a forum warrior!
Gamer4liff Caldari Metalworks THE INTERSTELLAR FOUNDRY	Posted - 2007.03.03 18:48:00 - [20] See guys I told you they would fix invention, now maybe you can stop shouting to remove/change T2 BPOSs? With these changes invention will be much more profitable, we all win!

Xcom Gallente Genco Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.03.03 18:57:00 - [21] Can we get a new module Covert Ops Cloak T1. Identical to the T2 one except you canÆt warp while cloaked. Only fittebul on Co-ops ships. Would solve the Co-ops T2 invention. The most expensive T2 items are not inventible, so frustrating. I would have thought that items like these would have priority above balancing. Otherwise it sounds like invention is at last getting fixed. Grate thanks to all involved.
Fenderson OLE Mining Corp Miners With Attitude	Posted - 2007.03.03 19:00:00 - [22] thanks for making invention more worthwhile. so then your just going to leave us in suspense about the fate of BPOs? sigs are for the weak
Kalissa D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.03.03 19:01:00 - [23] The idea is a good one to get rid of the lottery as to be honest I think it was a horrible idea when it came out and now it's detested even more. The difference is now that a lot of people/alliances have become rich beyond belief because of it and invention while lowering prices won't take those bpo's out of the picture and they will always be a very good money earner for people. People doing invention will have to do a fair bit of work to get their little slice of the pie but the original BPO's will still be there making the same old people/alliances a stack of cash for not as much effort/outlay. In effect CCP has to find a way of devalueing the T2 market slowly over time. The best way I can think of is for BPO's to be released constantly over a period of time, so that in lets say 6 months that demand meets supply so that prices drop drastically, in effect make T2 the new base line. Then... bring in T3, but bring it in as Oveur and Tomb destribed through invention and there only to be BPC's, no BPO's. This way in the long term the people/alliances who are mega rich wont be earning cash at a stupid rate compared to others, sure they're still mega rich but the gap won't get much worse and better still the new system will stop more people being part of this exclusive club which can only be a good thing.
magnus amadeus Amarr Obliteration Inc.	Posted - 2007.03.03 19:04:00 - [24] I have 2 request. 1) please set all ships to the highest meta-level rather than the lowest so that ship invention becomes worth it. 2)Seperate Invention of similar items from the same BPO by changing certain ship hulls. I would like to be able to invent absolutions without worry of accidentally creating a damnation. Same goes for curse/pilgrim, Retribution/Vengence, Crusader/Malediction and so on. If not changing the hulls let it be an option. This would solve the Covert Ops II situation aswell. Thanks for the hard work. _________________________________________________ Never argue with an idiot, they drag you down to their level and beat you down with experience.
Kalissa D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.03.03 19:06:00 - [25] Originally by: Gamer4liff See guys I told you they would fix invention, now maybe you can stop shouting to remove/change T2 BPOSs? With these changes invention will be much more profitable, we all win! Anything that leaves the T2 BPO's in place and them still being a huge money earner for people is not a good thing imo. Invention will help but that alone isnt enough, something extra needs to be done to bring down the price of T2. Having said that, something needs to replace T2 when it gets to that stage.
RL Dabney	Posted - 2007.03.03 19:23:00 - [26] how about removing decryptors all together, make runs, success, me, pe all skill based. with the proper skilled trained we can have 100% success. the decryptors success rate at 50% is to low and the decryptor itself is to rare. making it too costly. invention at present is too much chance based. if you have 1 failure, you have exceeded the cost of the t2 bpo holders sell price by alot. ccp you have made eve a skilled based game. everything we do and have is based on skills. decryptors for invention will never work and will never be fair. because it's all chanced based
Crumplecorn Gallente Eve Cluster Explorations	Posted - 2007.03.03 20:10:00 - [27] Originally by: RL Dabney how about removing decryptors all together, make runs, success, me, pe all skill based. with the proper skilled trained we can have 100% success. the decryptors success rate at 50% is to low and the decryptor itself is to rare. making it too costly. invention at present is too much chance based. if you have 1 failure, you have exceeded the cost of the t2 bpo holders sell price by alot. ccp you have made eve a skilled based game. everything we do and have is based on skills. decryptors for invention will never work and will never be fair. because it's all chanced based QFT Good things happening \o/ -------------------- Verone for President of EVE
Gamer4liff Caldari Metalworks THE INTERSTELLAR FOUNDRY	Posted - 2007.03.03 20:20:00 - [28] Originally by: Kalissa Originally by: Gamer4liff See guys I told you they would fix invention, now maybe you can stop shouting to remove/change T2 BPOSs? With these changes invention will be much more profitable, we all win! Anything that leaves the T2 BPO's in place and them still being a huge money earner for people is not a good thing imo. Invention will help but that alone isnt enough, something extra needs to be done to bring down the price of T2. Having said that, something needs to replace T2 when it gets to that stage. There are ways to make much, much, much more isk than with T2 bpos. like 0.0 complexes for example.
Dark Aeyn	Posted - 2007.03.03 20:27:00 - [29] Originally by: Gamer4liff Originally by: Kalissa Originally by: Gamer4liff See guys I told you they would fix invention, now maybe you can stop shouting to remove/change T2 BPOSs? With these changes invention will be much more profitable, we all win! Anything that leaves the T2 BPO's in place and them still being a huge money earner for people is not a good thing imo. Invention will help but that alone isnt enough, something extra needs to be done to bring down the price of T2. Having said that, something needs to replace T2 when it gets to that stage. There are ways to make much, much, much more isk than with T2 bpos. like 0.0 complexes for example. Shhh, let the carebears cry about T2 BPOs
Sinister Death Minmatar Sebiestor tribe	Posted - 2007.03.03 21:22:00 - [30] I'm definitely interested to see how this all plays out. I've got several chars with a couple hundred thousand research points. I would like to know if they are worth isk... I'll hold on to them till these changes occur. . . The opinions expressed above are mine, and mine alone. They don't represent my corp, alliance or family.



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