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There is these people making 3.5b a week from exploiting a bug.

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Shania Eria	Posted - 2007.03.05 13:48:00 - [31] Originally by: Crumplecorn Originally by: Shania Eria then by your logic.. because we are not nice we should have to pay 1 billion isk for lets say.. an enyo? because they own the BPOs or prehaps the entire T2 BPO community should band together and bump up their prices to around 1 billion isk for a t2 item.. Because they wouldn't sell any (or not many anyway) at that price. Duh. just like the hulk then?
Plutoinum German Cyberdome Corp Cult of War	Posted - 2007.03.05 13:55:00 - [32] Edited by: Plutoinum on 05/03/2007 13:51:53 Originally by: Shania Eria Originally by: Crumplecorn Originally by: Shania Eria then by your logic.. because we are not nice we should have to pay 1 billion isk for lets say.. an enyo? because they own the BPOs or prehaps the entire T2 BPO community should band together and bump up their prices to around 1 billion isk for a t2 item.. Because they wouldn't sell any (or not many anyway) at that price. Duh. just like the hulk then? They sell the hulks they produce sooner or later at that price. That's the point. Production speed is limited, BPOs are limited, so they can only produce a fixed number each week and they sell at the best price. They can sell them all for 600mil/unit, because players pay that much. ___________ Muuuhhh !!!
Ravelin Eb Minmatar Infinitus Odium Curse Alliance	Posted - 2007.03.05 13:57:00 - [33] Supply an Demand. Thread over.
Shania Eria	Posted - 2007.03.05 14:03:00 - [34] Edited by: Shania Eria on 05/03/2007 13:59:55 Originally by: Plutoinum Edited by: Plutoinum on 05/03/2007 13:51:53 Originally by: Shania Eria Originally by: Crumplecorn Originally by: Shania Eria then by your logic.. because we are not nice we should have to pay 1 billion isk for lets say.. an enyo? because they own the BPOs or prehaps the entire T2 BPO community should band together and bump up their prices to around 1 billion isk for a t2 item.. Because they wouldn't sell any (or not many anyway) at that price. Duh. just like the hulk then? They sell the hulks they produce sooner or later at that price. That's the point. Production speed is limited, BPOs are limited, so they can only produce a fixed number each week and they sell at the best price. They can sell them all for 600mil/unit, because players pay that much. first off may i ask what your favourite t2 ship is... then may i ask you what price you would be willing to pay for it.. if the answers are cerberus and 600mil i will pay for your next ship... but you have to give me a hulk
Nero Ya'ng Caldari YaFa Empires	Posted - 2007.03.05 14:04:00 - [35] Originally by: Masochistic Cannibal Even if there was a cartell or monopoly going on it IS NOT an exploit, in fact it's just good business sense ! Cannibal LOL tell me 1 game where you can advance more than 1 char at a time using only 1 account. this is even not possible in free games like Silkroad.
Shania Eria	Posted - 2007.03.05 14:08:00 - [36] guildwars, world of warcraft (cringes)...
Roemy Schneider BINFORD	Posted - 2007.03.05 14:10:00 - [37] Originally by: Shania Eria no they arnt because all hulks are selling for 500-600mil.. not one is going for less unless im mistaken.. and if there are cheaper ones going please put me in contact with the seller. builders sell from somewhere between 510-550mil, depending on the batches coming out of the oven - and it appears they each have a very good clue, what the situation will be like. the rest is resellers, stretching the supply via higher prices. yes, that's right: hulks would only be available every other week, if they sold for less than they do
Shania Eria	Posted - 2007.03.05 14:14:00 - [38] quick fix to hulk prices: introduce invention for hulks introduce more hulk BPOs reduce time of production increase build quantity max cap the sell prices of ships buyout the hulk BPOS.. 2 trillion isk.. no joke 20 BPOS 100billion each (lowest price) =2 trillion isk.. introduce another mining vessal with more capabilties than a hulk: example: capital mining/industrial vessel
Lucio Gallente UK Corp Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2007.03.05 14:15:00 - [39] Given this blog and that I know someone who gained a Hulk BPO via the lottery recently, I think that Hulks were probably part of this price cartel that recently got smashed. Would explain why the price wasn't falling.... ************************************************ Wohoo! No more negative sec status. It's a shame it took me TWO YEARS of Carebearing to get rid of a lousy -1.2
Lord WarATron Amarr Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.03.05 14:18:00 - [40] Here is the reason in simple english. 1 hulk per day per bpo. If the hulk was sold at 60mil, somebody would buy it faster than you can produce. Fact If the hulk was sold at 600mil, somebody would buy it faster than you can produce. Fact What would you chose to sell hulks at? --
III LightBringer Death by Drones	Posted - 2007.03.05 14:20:00 - [41] Edited by: III LightBringer on 05/03/2007 14:17:17 The Hulk BPO owners don't anoy me as much as all the cheaters selling minerals at inflated price.. I mean.. Pyerite at 9 isk? that is more than twice the normal value of 4.. and the trit selling at 2.5-3? that is 3 times the price.. not to mention all the cheaters that get zydrine they sell for 2 000 isk!! Twice the NPC price!! If the price on these minerals where back down where they belong, 1, 4,16,64,256,1024,4096 and 16384, then the HULK prices would drop significantly. It is them price gaugers selling expensive minerals that are the bastards ruining this game!! I am a funny funny pilot
Shania Eria	Posted - 2007.03.05 14:29:00 - [42] Originally by: Lord WarATron Here is the reason in simple english. 1 hulk per day per bpo. If the hulk was sold at 60mil, somebody would buy it faster than you can produce. Fact If the hulk was sold at 600mil, somebody would buy it faster than you can produce. Fact What would you chose to sell hulks at? lol this is typical "im not a miner so it doesnt effect me" bull**.. they used to sell at 400mil which by the way i would be happy to pay for one.. but they inflated allowing people to buy motherships/titans/dreads/carriers in days/weeks instead of months/years.. by CCPs logic Titans should be hard to obtain.. but when you can buy all the bits for one in 80days of selling a set of hulks.. i know a BPO owner myself and i know his personal goal is to make 100bil by summer which doesnt look to hard to me.. but CCP needs to stop *** around and making 3 month long decisions and start doing when it matters.. like the nanofad that has been going for a good 2 months is still going.. any changes.. no any suggestions yes but they are crap too. CCP needs to sort this out and start listening to the players instead of making e decisions themselves.. such as giving BoB BPOs and giving not just increasing BPO numbers.. it takes a simple click CCP thats all not *** months of talk and bull**.
Lucre STK Scientific	Posted - 2007.03.05 14:30:00 - [43] Originally by: Shania Eria lol.. i dont think you understand what exploit means.. let me quote from the dictionary: # use or manipulate to one's advantage; "He exploit the new taxation system"; "She knows how to work the system"; "he works his parents for sympathy" I think you might find an Eve dictionary more useful here - then at least you'd be talking the same language as everyone else in the thread. It might not help, but it'd be a start... http://support.eve-online.com/Pages/KB/Article.aspx?id=34 Exploits An exploit is when someone bypasses normal game mechanics, such as by utilizing a bug in the game, allowing him to take advantage of other players without them having any means of preventing it whatsoever. Selling a Hulk for 600M is normal game mechanics. And you can prevent it by not buying one. -- This T1 clue provided free. The T2 would be 600M though...
Heroldyn	Posted - 2007.03.05 14:39:00 - [44] i partly agree with the op. its not an exploit, but its a bad situation. its a bad situation especially for miners. Drone Regions, raising Hulk prices, skills needed (tank, mine, industry..) - not buying a hulk aint an option for a miner. its the gear you need to fullfill your profession. pve chars make way more money than miners nowerdays and people justify it with saying its "risk vrs. reward". is there less risk involved in tanking belt rats with a hulk and being an easy victim for pirates and ganking fleets than doing lvl4 missions with your pve char knowing exactly what and how many npcs to expect and their damage type and how to tank them from eveinfo.com ?
Frug Zenithal Harvest	Posted - 2007.03.05 14:48:00 - [45] Not an exploit. The BPO owners not guilty of anything. It's just eve needing more fixing. - - - - - - - - - - Do not use dotted lines - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - or automatic signatures - - - - - - - - "186,282 miles per second; It's not just a good idea, it's the law."
Lord WarATron Amarr Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.03.05 14:51:00 - [46] Edited by: Lord WarATron on 05/03/2007 14:49:01 Originally by: Shania Eria lol this is typical "im not a miner so it doesnt effect me" bull**.. Not really. Your reply is a typical "I dont know who you are, but since I cannot beat your logic, so I will dismiss your comments as bull*" Then you go on and start slagging off CCP. If you must know, I have max mining skills. Shock* But with that said, I better Finish off Turret Spec Lvl5 to redeam myself :) There is a reason why Hulks are at a price at this moment in time. This is because of Demand. Would the demand be less if invention is fixed? I would assume so, but point is moot - Either be patient or pay whatever ex-ascn member that has Hulk BPO's or pray you win one in the lottery. If you fail to have patiance to wait for prices to come down, or wait for invention to be fixed so you can make your own BPC's, then there is no point continuing this thread. --
Miss Anthropy	Posted - 2007.03.05 14:57:00 - [47] Originally by: Shania Eria CCP seems to hate miners.. i mean with the drones giving out minerals and the hulk prices stupidly high.. oh dont forget the fact that we dont get capitals.. and that our ships are paper-thin and have no real bonus.. such as a cloak.. and the fact that we have to train nearly every single ******* skill in the game to mine efficiently.. navigation, sheild tank, armour tank, engineering, industry, science.. ship command.. etc.. And the award for most unhappy forum poster of the week goes to (drum roll)... Shania Eria. I read your other post about miners, which got locked by the powers that be, and have come to the conclusion that you are very unhappy with mining in EVE. Seriously, did you wake up on the wrong side of the bed today (or even the wrong bed perhaps)? Sorry, couldn't resist. I really just wanted to say that you kinda need to chill out a bit.
Splagada Minmatar Tides of Silence	Posted - 2007.03.05 15:00:00 - [48] i just wish i was one of those! yeah im an ignorant ass, but im honest :p ------ Relaxed corp recruiting
Shania Eria	Posted - 2007.03.05 15:01:00 - [49] Originally by: Miss Anthropy Originally by: Shania Eria CCP seems to hate miners.. i mean with the drones giving out minerals and the hulk prices stupidly high.. oh dont forget the fact that we dont get capitals.. and that our ships are paper-thin and have no real bonus.. such as a cloak.. and the fact that we have to train nearly every single ******* skill in the game to mine efficiently.. navigation, sheild tank, armour tank, engineering, industry, science.. ship command.. etc.. And the award for most unhappy forum poster of the week goes to (drum roll)... Shania Eria. I read your other post about miners, which got locked by the powers that be, and have come to the conclusion that you are very unhappy with mining in EVE. Seriously, did you wake up on the wrong side of the bed today (or even the wrong bed perhaps)? Sorry, couldn't resist. I really just wanted to say that you kinda need to chill out a bit. Maybe i did but either way im not a happy bunny and i want a hulk.
Loktane	Posted - 2007.03.05 15:27:00 - [50] Perhaps a dev owns the BPO? No, I won't take off my tinfoil hat.
Vladikov Orrico	Posted - 2007.03.05 15:28:00 - [51] Quote: would you say "Thats outrageous! I'm not selling them for that much! I'm selling them at 200k, for the good of the people!" Actually I am one of those people who would not overcharge simply because there was a legal loophole to do so. This is "using the letter of the law to defeat the spirit of the law". Anyone who would exploit a situation like this to raise prices is no one I would do business with. Yes there are actually honest and morally sound people out there. Just because 80% of people out there are morally defunct doesn't mean we all are.
PirateShampoo Minmatar UK Corp Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2007.03.05 15:39:00 - [52] There is a big difference between overcharging and being competitive. Hulks take about 1.2 days on average to build, there are probably no more than 10 hulks being built per day, however the number of people being able to fly the hulk increases daily, the number of people losing hulks increases daily. If everyone is selling @ 400m then someone selling 500+ is overcharging, however the market is not at that state there is sufficient demand that many people will pay 500/550 so the hulk builders charge that amount. A person who just received a BPO is not going to sell massively below his competitor's. Like all businesses he is going to remain competitive, e.g. he is going to match or sell slightly below his competitors. This is perfectly normal market economics, and to be honest they are actually worth that price. Once you have one it does not take very long at all to recover that isk from mining. I should know I own 2 hulks.
Roemy Schneider BINFORD	Posted - 2007.03.05 15:39:00 - [53] reminds me we sold hulks for 700 mil exactly 12 months ago =)
PirateShampoo Minmatar UK Corp Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2007.03.05 15:47:00 - [54] Edited by: PirateShampoo on 05/03/2007 15:45:27 Additional Note: It's not quite 3.5 billion profit also, you forget and neglect to factor in these issues: 1) Building hulks is skill intensive 2) Sourcing or acquiring the T2 components can some times be time intensive. 3) Sales/Broker taxes 4) Shipping Safely (npc corp freighter pilot) 5) Time (it takes alot of your game play time just manufacturing 6-7 hulks a week) I'll add that I know these facts not because I am a Hulk BPO owner but because I know someone who is. Total Profit a week will not exceed 3b in most cases (it's alot I know, I'm jealous and I think the op is too, hence the whole reason for the ops post, jealousy) As to the comparison to complexes a good 10/10 complex farmed 7 days a week will bring in no less than 3.5b and upto 7b if they get very lucky will loot. So go figure. Complexes can earn more than a hulk BPO owner can make in the same period of time (ofc I admit that it takes a group of 5 or more people)
Splagada Minmatar Tides of Silence	Posted - 2007.03.05 16:20:00 - [55] on a side note, pirateshampoo is my hidden brother apparently nice glasses!! ------ Relaxed corp recruiting
Krulla Minmatar Queens of the Stone Age Anarchy Empire	Posted - 2007.03.05 16:25:00 - [56] Originally by: Vladikov Orrico Quote: would you say "Thats outrageous! I'm not selling them for that much! I'm selling them at 200k, for the good of the people!" Actually I am one of those people who would not overcharge simply because there was a legal loophole to do so. This is "using the letter of the law to defeat the spirit of the law". Anyone who would exploit a situation like this to raise prices is no one I would do business with. Yes there are actually honest and morally sound people out there. Just because 80% of people out there are morally defunct doesn't mean we all are. It's not exploiting the law. It's a free market, and that's what the hulks sell for. Why sell them for any lower? Anyone who would NOT sell hulks for all they are worth is, in fact, not a good businessman and not one I would do business with. ------------------------- Sigs are for noobs.
Argenton Sayvers	Posted - 2007.03.05 16:42:00 - [57] Ignorant people who think they know what a "true fair price" of an item is usually fail miserably, ruining economies, wealth of nations and dragging down millions of citizens into dirt and poverty not because the concept of fixed prices is that bad (though i think it is), but simply because they are ignorant. Wether smart people would be able to create "ethical" and stable prices without totally crushing the economy noone knows, as smart people rarely try not so smart aproaches to problems.
Pang Grohl Gallente	Posted - 2007.03.05 16:50:00 - [58] Originally by: Roemy Schneider reminds me we sold hulks for 700 mil exactly 12 months ago =) OMGh4xploiter!!! Seriously, the Hulk it the ultimate mining vessel. It should be ridiculously expensive. Why? Because you can make ridiculous amounts of money by owning one. Don't want to pay that much? Go buy a Coveter, pay 90% less and mine 9% less. Si non adjuvas, noces (If you're not helping, you're hurting)
Garrack Caldari No Quarter.	Posted - 2007.03.05 16:54:00 - [59] Originally by: Shania Eria quick fix to hulk prices: introduce invention for hulks introduce more hulk BPOs reduce time of production increase build quantity max cap the sell prices of ships buyout the hulk BPOS.. 2 trillion isk.. no joke 20 BPOS 100billion each (lowest price) =2 trillion isk.. introduce another mining vessal with more capabilties than a hulk: example: capital mining/industrial vessel Max the sell prices of ships? Wow. I've heard of limited capitalism, but jesus... Yer gonna get podded just for suggesting that one. LOL --- Singing: "I ain't got no siggy..."
Toria Nynys Minmatar	Posted - 2007.03.05 17:03:00 - [60] Originally by: Krulla It's not exploiting the law. It's a free market, and that's what the hulks sell for. Why sell them for any lower? Wrong. It is NOT a free market. CCP is granting hulk BPO owners a continuing monopoly, for no good reason. The said owners are exploiting the monopoly for all its worth. There's a reason that monopolies are tightly regulated in the meatworld. But in Eve, anything goes -- with the predictable result of some people getting obscenely rich with no work or risk, and others being very unhappy with that outcome. That's the original poster's thesis. IMO a pretty valid one -- the bug exploitation is not active, it's more of a passive variety. The owners aren't doing anything to exploit the bug that they would not be doing otherwise. Earning 3 bil/week by clicking a few times on the market and once on an assembly line is broken. There is no risk, there is no work, there is only fabulous reward. Should be a top priority to fix. 3B/week for 5 people farming a complex 24/7 is not even in the same league -- ships at risk, people pounding at a keyboard for many hours, split 5 ways, etc. Plus you can farm complexes WHILE your hulk bpo generates billions. They are not exclusive.

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