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Acix
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Posted - 2003.12.19 02:19:00 -
[91]
Edited by: Acix on 19/12/2003 02:20:57
Ok lets look at all the issues and put aside biases one way or the other.
The question is does a roll back need to happen or not?
BP's ok fixed soon - papa smurf is taking care of that
agents/standings not fixed but will be soon
only power gamers will be able to do anything with agents unless you can do 400+ missions just to keep you standing per week
Mining low grade ores are still able to be gotten by groups of people. Mining rare ores takes sooooo many people that even realistically the mega corps could never accept the losses to make it worth while. Even if you have 30 or 40 battleships and cruisers in one belt you will still loose ships due to the NPC's spawning right on you and killing a ship or two before they can be take out. Haulers will die instantly.............
tech 2 odd way to implement to say the least (changing every rule we have all been working with to date), all producers that spent ages learning skills will now have to get agents to: research, get parts, and beg mega corps for new minerals...... I myself have a second account that has been training non stop to be the best producer and refiner. I can't run two accounts at the same time this much to be of any use. I am talking about trying to run missions while my fighter is engaged in a region war. It will be hard but I will take the challenge to deal with this one as much as possible, I might curse a lot at the computer while doing it but it is a lot more workable than other things.
NPC's ok now this is the biggest problem for the entire patch.
NPC spawns are causing huge belt lag on the client side causing ships to be lost without even knowing what happened. The lag issue is better than the past but with this addition it just went sour. NPC spawn amounts are way overboard.
People talk about being more realistic but forget that pirates are normally not going to have the shear resources a mega corp will have. There is no way NPC pirates would be able to have that many battleships and cruisers out in the low sec zones (not talking about edge of space 0.0 systems but .2 to .1 areas). Also how would they ever be able to produce these ships in such mass quantity to replace them every 10 minutes or less. SO realism is a false argument.
NPC ships are also way too uber to be even close to anything they should have released at this point in the progression of EVE. The expectation and realistic approach to the new pirates would be slowly having them appear in deep deep deep space around extremely rare ores. Then move them close to regular space over time. While the player base is catching up in technology to deal with this new threat to deep space mining.
Engaging the pirates with battleships or cruisers by themselves is going to lead to loss of ships (no one can argue about this statement unless you have no idea what you are talking about). Combinations of the two will cause loss of ships due to the spawn occurrence of the NPC's to begin with.
The three sides are:
1) Roll back because of the known bug issues (that eve players in total have lost trillions to) and give a blanket fix not favoring anyone.
Good points: No one has an advantage everyone starts fresh, combined with fixes. Majority of players will be happy because the economy will not tumble due to mega and other high end minerals sky rocketing in price.
Bad points: its a step back for CCP, bad publicity for basically admitting they really messed up.
2) Don't roll back but give all those that can prove they lost ships/items.
Good points: players will receive back at least the ships they lost to bugs and not leave the game.
Bad points: not everyone will be able to produce logs or evidence to prove it was due to the NPC bug.
3) Don't roll back and keep telling people to just deal with it
Good points NONE except the selfish self serving that don't understand this will in the next few weeks trickle down to them and then they will leave the game because it snowballs and hurts them realllllly bad at that point.
Bad points Extreme player loss of interest and loss of players (possibly my two accounts if that even slightly concerns anyone at CCP)
So looking at the issues after stepping back to see the whole picture how could you really argue against a roll back. The player base would not consider this egg on your face CCP. More than likely you would receive praise and thanks from many in the player community. For the people that cannot see the light take a step back and think about the game as a whole, not just your little chunk of the pie. Don't be a self serving player and realize that without the rest of the community we would not be able to get much of anything done in this game. DO NOT let this snowbal
SNIGG is now officially open for business. We are a merc corp looking for contracts.
For more info click below
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=68313 |
Acix
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Posted - 2003.12.19 02:19:00 -
[92]
Well since there have been multiple people saying "rollback why?" I just wanted to list the reasons I have and that a lot of other have to do it. I know you will all say that I shouldn't have posted this here, but you guys keep stating that you don't know why anyone would want to rollback. SO flame me all you want but here it is.
Had to post it in a seperate post so it would fit. Lets have this as a reasonable discussion. Just don't flame me try make a point instead of just flaming. |
Ajari Joan
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Posted - 2003.12.19 06:24:00 -
[93]
Edited by: Ajari Joan on 19/12/2003 06:26:51
Acix
http://people.freenet.de/www.mpd.de/wiener.jpg
Argh.. can't you keep your whining out of these forums, there are so many "whinertopics" so somebody might have a little place for you to post your complains. But keep it out of such topics like this.
removed the image tags -Eris Discordia
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"We offer you freedom and individuality while providing you all the good and bad aspects of a growing corporation!" Sonbou Inc.
web: Sonbou Incorporated |
Thomdril Merrilin
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Posted - 2003.12.19 07:12:00 -
[94]
DO NOT ROLL BACK EVER!!!! JUST FIX THE DAMN PROBLEMS FFS!!!
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Baldour Ngarr
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Posted - 2003.12.19 09:10:00 -
[95]
Sorry Acix, but you got the rollback-related problems in just about totally the reverse order. NPCs aren't the problem AT ALL. They're supposed to be uber-tough. They are, admittedly, appearing in rather more places than they should, but; as has been said, adapt or die. Losing stuff to a CTD has always been a threat, and everyone knows - or should, if they have any common sense at all - that playing immediately post-patch makes it a bigger threat. If you've succumbed to that thread, well, tough. Go buy a new battleship.
Nothing's happened because of new, stronger npc rats, which has caused irreversible damage.
The only *major* problem with the patch has been the agents; since a large number of people immediately went agent-running because of tech 2 being introduced through them, we have hundreds of people with wrong standings due to bugs, and hundreds of other people with original cruiser blueprints worth 70 million a pop, stacks of 12 or more skillbooks that sold for a total of over 200 million, and so on.
The only argument for a rollback that ever did exist, was inability to put those wrongs right. The amounts of standing lost have caused damage which is effectively irreversible - peole have lost the ability to use ANY agent of a given faction, when they already had level 3 agents before the bugs kicked in. And people who got dished out a stack of 12 Moa blueprints have sold 11, they've been thrown in research hangars, copies have been made, cruisers have been built, sold, already flown and in some cases no doubt blown up .... It's an unholy mess.
However, CCP say they *can* put those wrongs right - standings will be restored, blueprints etc. will be taken away again - so a rollback simply is not necessary.
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"Soon" is an ancient Icelandic word meaning "some time before the next Ice Age." |
Acix
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Posted - 2003.12.19 16:52:00 -
[96]
 Quote:
Nothing's happened because of new, stronger npc rats, which has caused irreversible damage.
HMMMM not thinking about the big picture I see. With literally hundreds of battleships destroyed, do you really think those of us that mine rare ore will share it for a while. We just like a lot of corps that have the ability before and after to mine rare ore will have it to replace our ships. Then after we replace our ships we figure the market will be close to 100k isk per unit for mega. Its now close to 130 million to just build a tempest at current mineral prices as of last night (pst).
OR haven't you been following the market. Insurance doesn't even come close to covering that kind of cost. Then you have to have a BPC or buy one for 20 to 30 million.
The damage has already been done that IS irreversible to the economy. IT will Snowball and you will see the mega corps replace thier losses first causing a huge up-swing in the price of mega.
If you think the agent stuff was the big problem just watch the economy (it is and we will see the problems it has caused for a while). And think about other things besides the little problems. The main cause was the NPC's, CAUSE and EFFECT. Everything we see from now on are symptoms of this problem.............
If you can't see it you aren't even looking. |
Acix
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Posted - 2003.12.19 18:38:00 -
[97]
Ajari Joan prove me wrong. If you think differently then refute my thoughts and info. Otherwise your post is the useless one. |
Sir JoJo
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Posted - 2003.12.19 19:46:00 -
[98]
NO WAY NO ROLEBACK
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Spike Spiegel
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Posted - 2003.12.19 19:54:00 -
[99]
Acix,
Hey man I lost an Apoc and felt like crap for a couple days but now I'm back in it. Sure I wanted a rollback back then but now NO. The patch is good, BS's are suppose to be rare to begin with so only people or corps that have power can actually get them.
Keep up the good work CCP but please fix problems ASAP :)
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loladoll
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Posted - 2003.12.19 19:55:00 -
[100]
no rollback, im happy
______________________________________
live is tough and then you get a clone |
Trianon Starstealer
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Posted - 2003.12.19 19:56:00 -
[101]
There had better not be a roll back, who even brought up such a stupid suggestion?
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Melchar
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Posted - 2003.12.19 20:40:00 -
[102]
As Clint Eastwood might say,
"Rollbacks are for A55 Holes!!"
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Ajari Joan
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Posted - 2003.12.19 23:39:00 -
[103]
Quote:
Ajari Joan prove me wrong. If you think differently then refute my thoughts and info. Otherwise your post is the useless one.
You won't even listen since you don't care as long as you can post your own thoughts which btw have been stated a million and another million times in similar phrases all over the forums! Thats why I'm not going to reply on such topics anymore. I say - let the ignorant wieners be whiners and let them miss the good points (of castor)! Oh and a nice goodbye if you're thinking about leaving. 
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"We offer you freedom and individuality while providing you all the good and bad aspects of a growing corporation!" Sonbou Inc.
web: Sonbou Incorporated |
Acix
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Posted - 2003.12.20 01:39:00 -
[104]
I have said many times that the new client is nice. The ability to configure things that I like is very very nice. But the problems overwhelm any of that. Just remember you heard me say here that the economy will go insane for a long time because of the previously stated reasons.
I could sit here and call you a fan boy or whatever else but there is no reason to. But you feel the need to flame for useless reasons.
You did not provide any information or reason for your position. I guess you just have you mind set on one thing and you cannot see the big global picture. Closed mindedness and indifference is not a valid position. |
Ajari Joan
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Posted - 2003.12.20 04:48:00 -
[105]
look here
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"We offer you freedom and individuality while providing you all the good and bad aspects of a growing corporation!" Sonbou Inc.
web: Sonbou Incorporated |
Seraphin Hectaris
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Posted - 2003.12.20 07:00:00 -
[106]
no rollback
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Pann
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Posted - 2003.12.20 07:22:00 -
[107]
There's not going to be a roll back...
Eve Community Manager
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