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Felonious Crimes
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Posted - 2007.03.06 01:41:00 -
[1]
okay this idea has most likely been asked beforebut a quick look through a few pages back didnt yield a topic or anything i thought id post about it.
im a Gallene player. through training and using all the ship skills (for all 4 races) ive come to realize that the caldari race is for me. missiles and longrange bombardment.
i like to joke that im a traitor to my people and have allied myself with the cladari.
anyways. my main L3 mission ship is a ferox (until i get another drake (last 2 went pop) ive been using heavy missiles and heavy missile launchers for a while now. obviously ive put alot of time into using them and have fired a fair deal of missiles.
since ive used missiles so much i felt that, just like i nreal life, the more you use them the better you understand them...the better you learn to usethem.
so there you have it...somewhere in that web of words is what im asking. is there a possibility of some sort of "time spent" option. where constantly using a certain type of weapon will slowly (very slowly) lower the amount of time it takes to train a skill?
for example: ive been using heavy missiles for about 4 months now. for those 4 months it would be nice if i culd have reduced my heavy missiles level 5 rank by 4 hours, or 8 hours, or even 1 day.
obviously the more time you spend using something the better you become at using it. so why doesent this apply in eve? COULD it apply in eve?
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Tarron Sarek
Gallente
Endica Enterprises
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Posted - 2007.03.06 02:00:00 -
[2]
Short version: No.
It's a bit too late here for the long version, sorry.
In a nutshell, it's no sword you wield in your hand. It's a lot of theory, physics and electronics. That's all covered by your ability to lern = attributes and your current skill level.
___________________________________
_/_/ Game balance isn't just a luxury _/_/ |
Angelus Xenotov
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Posted - 2007.03.06 02:30:00 -
[3]
This is easily exploited:
Step:
1. Get a perma-tank ally (Either alt or player with a spare alt account), who can tank your heavy missiles.
2. Spam ally with heavy missiles from server up to server dt.
3. ????
4. Profit!
Its too easy to exploit.
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Reggie Stoneloader
eXceed Inc.
INVICTUS.
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Posted - 2007.03.06 03:39:00 -
[4]
And remember, the learning that you do in EvE is being pumped into you via a synaptic interface. The ability to use missiles is being encoded into your brain on such a fundamental level that it's as natural as breathing.
Think of The Matrix, how they learned new skills. Do you think they gain any appriciable amount of mastery from practice that they don't gain better and fast through the uplink? No. What they learn by doing is tactical and practical applications for the raw knowledge that they've gleaned from the program.
In short, you do become better by practicing, the same way you get better at Quake by practicing, because you learn how setups work and you learn about range and distance and you learn how to balance your shield and capacitor to get the most possible performance out of your ship.
It's fine the way it is.
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Karina Sasieko
Caldari
MisFunk Inc.
CORE.
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Posted - 2007.03.06 09:19:00 -
[5]
Me thinks something like that was in early-beta 3 years ago but ppl just went lowsec and fired at roids when afking - so they scraped it.
Another trolling part of me thinks.... caldari missile user asking about it - come on.... you can insta train t2 torps.... not like us rail users >:>
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Galifardeua
Gallente
Completament Tarats
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Posted - 2007.03.06 16:49:00 -
[6]
This really needs to go to some kind of FAQ.
Also... no.
Have fun.
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Star Hunter
Gallente
RUS-1-UKR
Red Alliance
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Posted - 2007.03.06 17:09:00 -
[7]
First half year of eve after-release existance it was so.
U used a device - u got skills. (besides 1 you was learning as you do it now).
Than they said NO to it.
Not for me to judge them. I liked it in some way.
Rememberred good old UO.
But than again... UO.... Macrosing... argh...
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Nacho Star
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Posted - 2007.03.25 06:00:00 -
[8]
So they effectively slowed learning down by only allowing you to learn one skill?
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Valandril
Caldari
Resurrection
R i s e
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Posted - 2007.03.25 06:05:00 -
[9]
 Originally by: Nacho Star
So they effectively slowed learning down by only allowing you to learn one skill?
Thats close to necro...
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Mass murderer, pure pvper and starcraft player =D |
Hasiti
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Posted - 2007.04.09 04:02:00 -
[10]
I think it's a good idea but it should be like another type of skills.
It could be named like: Experience skills. It could have something like 5% max of bonus. You would win that percentage of bonus exactly like current skill (lvl 1 easier then lvl5) when you are using the appropriate modules. But for an example, while you would be using Missiles, you would be winning missile damage bonus, missile velocity, but loosing your railgun skills which could be tracking speed and damage speed. So you would never reach 5% everywhere and I think it could be a nice feature. :)
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Reggie Stoneloader
Teikoku Trade Conglomerate
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Posted - 2007.04.09 07:23:00 -
[11]
This is starting to sound like crew experience. Unecessarily convoluted, in my opinion.
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Wander Lost
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Posted - 2007.04.10 12:54:00 -
[12]
This game doesn't have mis-spent skill points. Who knows if you'll want to fly gallente later for the drone capacity. If skill was raised incrementally through the accompanied actions then there would be the dreaded "SKILL GRINDING" = no ty. You already have to grind for money/standing/sec rating. Besides, do you want hardcore players out to get you MORE HARDCORE = no ty.
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Lothros Andastar
Gallente
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Posted - 2007.05.08 17:42:00 -
[13]
Isn't it funny that every day more and more people on the forums want to turn this game into WOW?
If you want to get skills through actions, PLAY WoW! Otherwise, sit back relax and enjoy the greatness that is EVE
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Aki Yamato
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Posted - 2007.05.08 18:01:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Lothros Andastar
Isn't it funny that every day more and more people on the forums want to turn this game into WOW?
If you want to get skills through actions, PLAY WoW! Otherwise, sit back relax and enjoy the greatness that is EVE
But you wont get skills though actions in WOW, I mean not directly.
One important thing, sooner or later there must be some game mechanic, witch will overcome huge differnece between Old players and new players, or EVE will siply die due to lack of players. I see only few options, new players witch more and more SP, whole new skill and tech tree (planetray fight related ?) totaly independent on presnet one or taining accelerateable by actions.
BIG GUN
BIG FUTURE |
Mecozimspy
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Posted - 2007.05.08 18:45:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Aki Yamato
But you wont get skills though actions in WOW, I mean not directly.
Yes u gain directly, because u gain exp ergo new levels ergo profit from gridning.
Originally by: Aki Yamato
One important thing, sooner or later there must be some game mechanic, witch will overcome huge differnece between Old players and new players, or EVE will siply die due to lack of players. I see only few options, new players witch more and more SP, whole new skill and tech tree (planetray fight related ?) totaly independent on presnet one or taining accelerateable by actions.
No there don't have to be mechanic to overcome this, and this is why so many ppl play eve, because here u are rewarded for time, not for playing 23/7.
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Aki Yamato
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Posted - 2007.05.08 21:15:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Mecozimspy
Originally by: Aki Yamato
But you wont get skills though actions in WOW, I mean not directly.
Yes u gain directly, because u gain exp ergo new levels ergo profit from gridning.
Originally by: Aki Yamato
One important thing, sooner or later there must be some game mechanic, witch will overcome huge differnece between Old players and new players, or EVE will siply die due to lack of players. I see only few options, new players witch more and more SP, whole new skill and tech tree (planetray fight related ?) totaly independent on presnet one or taining accelerateable by actions.
No there don't have to be mechanic to overcome this, and this is why so many ppl play eve, because here u are rewarded for time, not for playing 23/7.
No it isn't there is big difference between slayng mobs and increasing something something completly different and increasing skill you are actually applying, like in UO (best MMORPG ever btw)
I want to see how do you, saying to noob in frigate: "Hey dude just year of tackling, few years in battleship, another fer yars for capitals something about 6 years total it's not that bad !" in time when titan will be standart fleet ship as BS are now.
Especialy when bigger = better in eve universe.
BTW devs already increased starting SP and that's clear proof for me, that such game mechanic is needed and devs are aware of it.
BIG GUN
BIG FUTURE |
Mecozimspy
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Posted - 2007.05.08 22:55:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Aki Yamato
No it isn't there is big difference between slayng mobs and increasing something something completly different and increasing skill you are actually applying, like in UO (best MMORPG ever btw)
Dude skills in eve = levels in WoW/other mmorpg, finaly try to understand it doh.
Originally by: Aki Yamato
I want to see how do you, saying to noob in frigate: "Hey dude just year of tackling, few years in battleship, another fer yars for capitals something about 6 years total it's not that bad !" in time when titan will be standart fleet ship as BS are now.
This is very wrong use of hyperbole from person that got no clue about game and is prolly newb or idiot.
Originally by: Aki Yamato
Especialy when bigger = better in eve universe.
Not true again
Originally by: Aki Yamato
BTW devs already increased starting SP and that's clear proof for me, that such game mechanic is needed and devs are aware of it.
Did they raise sp gaining rate or just gave them 1 time boost so they can faster jump into ships (since begining of eve eve infalted a lot and u can afford cruiser pretty fast, now u can also fly them fast enought).
To summarise, there is no need for extra sp for grinding, this is basic rule and flavor of eve. It require patient player, no shortcut here.
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Fraszoid
Caldari
BloodStorm Elite
Brutally Clever Empire
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Posted - 2007.05.09 02:01:00 -
[18]
I was said earlier, and I'll reiterate; You do not gain skills by shooting the gun, you gain a fundamental understanding of the weapon and all subsystems to the extent that operation is as second nature as breathing. That is why we have extensive neural implants to interface with the ship systems. Learning by doing would be very slow compared to the learning done by training the skill.
Everyone is born right handed, only the great over come it.
Check out my players guide at:
http://www.eve-miners.info/guide/minersguide.html |
Aki Yamato
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Posted - 2007.05.09 12:28:00 -
[19]
Quote:
Originally by: Aki Yamato
No it isn't there is big difference between slayng mobs and increasing something something completly different and increasing skill you are actually applying, like in UO (best MMORPG ever btw)
Dude skills in eve = levels in WoW/other mmorpg, finaly try to understand it doh.
LOL OK, what Level is your main ?
Quote:
Originally by: Aki Yamato
I want to see how do you, saying to noob in frigate: "Hey dude just year of tackling, few years in battleship, another fer yars for capitals something about 6 years total it's not that bad !" in time when titan will be standart fleet ship as BS are now.
This is very wrong use of hyperbole from person that got no clue about game and is prolly newb or idiot.
And you are a Doctor ? Reasonale man will not focus on exact numbers, but on idea, witch is that no one will start playing game where each even small scale cruiser combat ends witch supercapital feet jumping at your head and with no chance to seriously oppose these fleets without several years of traning.
Quote:
Originally by: Aki Yamato
Especialy when bigger = better in eve universe.
Not true again
Yea it is, maybe we can use a bit different formula: more expensive = better. Witch is virtualy the same.
Quote:
Originally by: Aki Yamato
BTW devs already increased starting SP and that's clear proof for me, that such game mechanic is needed and devs are aware of it.
Did they raise sp gaining rate or just gave them 1 time boost so they can faster jump into ships (since begining of eve eve infalted a lot and u can afford cruiser pretty fast, now u can also fly them fast enought).
To summarise, there is no need for extra sp for grinding, this is basic rule and flavor of eve. It require patient player, no shortcut here.
IF you read my previous response Carefuly, i stated that "sp grinding" is one of the options. So stop acting as if i urge it as one and only one right path. Personaly i prefer whole new skill and tech tree, related to planetary combat.
BTW next time it would be nice support yous statements witch some arguments :))
BIG GUN
BIG FUTURE |
Sargeant HAmmer
Caldari
Hammers Academy
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Posted - 2007.05.09 12:37:00 -
[20]
now in response to this im going to ask about a certain thing.
Manufacturer bonus: n (n for number)
if you have seen this then you will know what i am talking about.
This figure only appears on certain rigs. I think your idea about skill training isnt good personally but a manufacturer bonus is good. if anyone knows what it means ill be happy to hear. if the manufacturer of the item had certain skills and accessories that improved and made items better then that would counter the need for skills to be trained faster. it would just mean you have to get a good manufacturing quality.
isnt quality, power, speed, rof, etc etc what we really want from our weapons.
i vote no to changing the skill system at all. graphics sure, more skills sure, what skills do sure, but nothing else. by changing how it works your basically asking ccp to re make the skill training process. this "could" cause all kinds of problems if it went live. eg click to train, says 10 mins left, says finished, you go to train a new on, and the old one didnt train etc etc. only examples, this would then mean more downtime, less playtime, more moaning, more forum spamming. does ccp want to change the way it works and the reason experience in the way eve works. i did see some sort of possible change list that ccp were looking at and the skill system was mentioned.
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Valandril
Caldari
Reiketsu.
Hitchhiker's Alliance
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Posted - 2007.05.09 14:16:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Aki Yamato
stupid pointless crap
Originally by: Aki Yamato
BTW next time it would be nice support yous statements witch some arguments :))
Yes i'm not using arguments and not counterargumenting, not going to say anything else bacause u still don't see how sps are equal to levels in other games.
Btw there you go, i finaly can post with my main.
How bout u ?
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Cheap paint ftw |
Danton Marcellus
Nebula Rasa Holdings
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Posted - 2007.05.09 23:07:00 -
[22]
It was like that and it got exploited, not going to happen again.
Also Known As |
Gridcrash
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Posted - 2007.05.09 23:30:00 -
[23]
NO!
I would drop EVE in a heartbeat if I had to do the skill/level grind again!
-Grid
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Dotard
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Posted - 2007.05.14 12:08:00 -
[24]
Me and my buddy are both at equal levels on our learning skills. He sets his and comes back in 5 days. I play EvE everyday. There should be SOME kind of "reward" I can get skill wise for logging on everyday vs. those who log on once or twice a week.
So how about when you are logged in and actually playing, not logged in staticly, your training time decreases slightly. For example a 5 day training time for any given skill decreases to 4 or 4 1/2 days.
Point is there should be SOME kinda edge the daily player can achieve over the once or twice a week player.
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Lag Hon
Minmatar
Lag Hon Security
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Posted - 2007.05.14 12:30:00 -
[25]
Short answer....NO!
Long answer....The current skillgain system means I do not have to dedicate 90% of my life to playing Eve just to get the skills to do what i want to do.
Capital ships wont become the norm because they are a specialized ship and only practical in their designed situation.
New players will not be left behind because by tomorrow there will be players newer than them.
There is no such thing as the Gap between the haves and have nots because the have were have nots when they first started and there is nothing stopping the have nots from becoming a have.(Could someone pls double check that to see if I got it right  )
As posted earlier too easy to exploit and totally unneccesary.
Quote:
There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom. Against that power governments, and tyrants, and armies can not stand.
G'Kar
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Valandril
Caldari
Reiketsu.
Hitchhiker's Alliance
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Posted - 2007.05.14 13:46:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Dotard
Point is there should be SOME kinda edge the daily player can achieve over the once or twice a week player.
Isk/pvp experience
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Cheap paint ftw |
Dotard
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Posted - 2007.05.14 15:28:00 -
[27]
ISK?? Selling of GTCs negates that.
Shorter training time for active players is the answer.
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Valandril
Caldari
Reiketsu.
Hitchhiker's Alliance
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Posted - 2007.05.14 15:36:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Dotard
ISK?? Selling of GTCs negates that.
Shorter training time for active players is the answer.
So sell gtc too
/me shrug
Read whole topic, search for other and realise that it will NEVER happend
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Cheap paint ftw |
Tarron Sarek
Gallente
Cadien Cybernetics
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Posted - 2007.05.14 15:43:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Dotard
ISK?? Selling of GTCs negates that.
Shorter training time for active players is the answer.
That's comparing apples and oranges.
The one selling GTCs pays RL money, whilst the other one gets his ISK simply by playing.
You can't possibly say that's the same.
Next we start to compare people who own 1 account with players who own multiple accounts, right?
In the standard case, where two people each pay for a single account and one of them plays a lot, while the other one doesn't, both gain roughly the same SP, but the first one also gains experience and ISK.
That's about it. Very simple.
_________________________________
- People are people wherever you go - |
Dotard
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Posted - 2007.05.14 18:35:00 -
[30]
Ya, you're prob right, it'll never happen. The same for many suggestions found here. But that is what this place is all about ain't it? Spout your ideas and support the ones you'd like.
I'd like to see shorter training times for active players. And yes, I do sell GTCs already. And, unless you're a ******, spend a few hours at the game and you will know how to 'clickty-click' to make things happen. So Isk and "experiance" don't give you that edge. Shorter training times will.
"I don't want to spend 90% of my time playing so newbie doesn't gain more skill than me."
So then play more. *shrugs*
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Valandril
Caldari
Reiketsu.
Hitchhiker's Alliance
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Posted - 2007.05.14 19:32:00 -
[31]
Originally by: Dotard
"I don't want to spend 90% of my time playing so newbie doesn't gain more skill than me."
So then play more. *shrugs*
Or play game that don't require constant grinding, where u can play only couple hours per week and still get reward as everyone else.
Ah wait, thats the reason why many ppl changed from other games to eve.
Also u mean that 1 month old character (u) is already making isk from gtcs ?
Heh, thats sad imo.
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Cheap paint ftw |
Lenus Daragio
coracao ardente
Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2007.05.16 23:17:00 -
[32]
I'd much rather see something such as what I'd call "Decaying Skillpath," which would allow you to slowly, over time unlearn certain skills that work off the same attributes of the skills you're trying to learn to increase the speed at which you learn.
Of course, by doing this, you'd be wasting skillpoints, or in other words, throwing away half of the skillpoints you earned in one skill to learn another faster. This would make sure people don't exploit it, they just use it to make up for time lost in useless skills.
On top of that, you can't unlearn skills that are pre-requisites to others you have trained, so you can't un-learn heavy missiles 5, even if you un-learn heavy missile spec all the way to 0, it won't let you.
RP Explanation would be that your brain uses certain areas to learn different skills, by allowing the training process to be a bit more wreckless, you can gain a bit of a training time boost, (somewhere between the range of 10%-25% max, but more likely closer to 15%)
__________________________________________________
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PastaMadaFaka
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Posted - 2007.05.16 23:23:00 -
[33]
i think skills are ok as it is
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Jack Forge
Gallente
Prox XII
Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2007.05.21 19:36:00 -
[34]
no, the skill point system in eve is what makes it unique and different than every other grind style RPG....
__________________________________________________
Stupid is as stupid does... |
Lance Fighter
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Posted - 2007.05.21 19:43:00 -
[35]
heh makes me think, how would you quantify the amount of gain you get? How about this... 1 sp per missile fired! no, too much you say? .5 sp per missile fired! hah!...
Someone keeps truncating my signature, I swear |
Torothanax
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Posted - 2007.06.16 16:49:00 -
[36]
I've thought about this quite a bit, and the only thing I ever come up with is "no, bad idea". This would totally change the game. I like the eve skill over time system. Means we only have to grind for cash.
Being able to queue a second skill would be kinda nice though. Can't always get on to change skills right away. That's another thread though.
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Torothanax
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Posted - 2007.07.13 22:09:00 -
[37]
Edited by: Torothanax on 13/07/2007 22:10:16
Guess I should have checked if I'd replied to this before. ^^ Oops.
The only way I'd even think about agreeing to an idea like this is if it only applied to lvl 5 skills and was at MAX a 10% boost.
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Aluthin
Caldari
New Light
KnightRaven Alliance
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Posted - 2007.07.29 17:23:00 -
[38]
the one thing i like about eve is the training system i mean what other game allows u to train a skill while u r not on because u r working i can't think of another mmorpg where u get 24hr a day 365 days a year character skill training for your monthly fee
i think a better way of awarding people who constantly use something is say to give a bonus too the ships handling or speed or to a weapons accuracy and targeting due too your comfort at using that ship something like
example:
u r flying a raven ratting
after a day u get a 3% bonus increase to the ravens normal bonuses
after a 2 days u get another 3% bonus
after 4 days another 3%
after a week another 3%
(for a day to count towards ur bonus increase u have to have been out flying the ship)
and thats it
BUT: if u change out of that ship or it is destroyed u lose the bonus and it resets and u start again
just an idea that to me seems more play balanced
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i take
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Posted - 2007.07.30 03:28:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Angelus Xenotov
This is easily exploited:
Step:
1. Get a perma-tank ally (Either alt or player with a spare alt account), who can tank your heavy missiles.
2. Spam ally with heavy missiles from server up to server dt.
3. ????
4. Profit!
Its too easy to exploit.
excatly same thought..
it's too easy to exploit.
anykind of sp gain system (except the normal x sp per rat of x bounty, and the x mined per hour sp, and X builded ship of x sieze per hour) would be too exploitable.
but i am all up for that X kills of X sieze etc
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Ellaine TashMurkon
MetaForge
Ekliptika
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Posted - 2007.07.30 05:35:00 -
[40]
Ok, but You should spend about 3-10 years of using skill regularly, few hours a day, 5 days a week to get from level 2 to level 3 of average tier 5 skill. Science skills have that tier 5 and level 3 is equivalent of doctorate :)
Level 4 of most skills should take lifetime, or at least 20-30 years of playing, and level 5 is rather not available that way.
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tikinish
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Posted - 2007.08.09 01:08:00 -
[41]
my idea of a time use skill system.
You have a window where I sign a task for the different areas you want to get sp:
So there are 5 main categories:
Science
Piloting:
Industry:
Combat:
And
Support:
Under these are the different under categories that you can assign sp to be setting in under:
Science:
Science, social, learning,
Piloting:
Spaceship command, navigation, leadership.
Industry:
Mechanic, industry, trading
Support:
Electronics, engineering, corporation management.
Combat:
Missile launcher operation, gunnery, drones.
You go in under the new window and select a area for each of these.
So you can say:
Social, navigation, mechanic, engineering and drones.
This means
If your doing anything that give sp to science it will go to the lowest ranking known skill under social.
If your doing anything that gives sp in piloting it will give sp to the lowest ranking known skill under navigation.
Etc.
Now this is how you can gain sp in the different areas:
Science:
You get sp under science by:
Finishing R&D mission. The sp is decided on the LP you get a % of this
Doing research, copying bpoÆs etc, (normal amount)
And when ever a skill is learned. get a very small amount.
Finding exploration sights. (Giving a balanced amount)
Piloting:
by
Finishing missions. Small amount
Mining. Very small amount to show that youÆre piloting.
Killing rats. Very small amount to show that youÆre piloting
Finding exploration sights. Again small amount
x
Industry:
By finishing building order. (semi high amount)
By trading. Only npc trade goods from one place to another will give here. (small amount)
And by doing carrier, industrial missions. (small amount)
Mining (high amount)
Combat:
Getting for.
Killing Rats:
You gain an SP gain in for each rat you kill the sp gain is decided by the % in sec standing it would normally give (so bigger rats give more sp)
Finishing kill missions. The sp is decided on the LP you get a % of this
Support:
For setting up and supplying a pos. very small amount to show your working but canÆt be misused.
For finishing missions. A very small amount but still decided on the LP you get a low % of this
By probing moons. High amount
Finding exploration sights. High amount
Scanning asteroids. Very low amount, just to show your doing it but canÆt be misused.
The sp for doing what can give you the highest amount of sp should be around a 25% increase in the sp gain in the time your doing it.
Use of macros will of cause, as now is a banneble offence.
For all the things that you can do again and again and again the sp shall of cause be so little that it can not be abused:
Like scanning asteroids, probing moons, etc.
The main point is to do it, so if you play the game you will be able to get a 25% increase while you play, but if you try to form on those very few wholes this will have, like rescanning a asteroid, it will not really be worth it, or of cause you get a bit more, but not nearly what you could if you had just been mining while doing it.
topic worth reading
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=569893&page=1sp idea[/ |
Frank Mason
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Posted - 2007.08.29 15:47:00 -
[42]
/not signed
The current skill system is what makes EVE so unique. If there's some kind of farming system that's implemented, I'm outta here :)
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Mad0ne
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Posted - 2007.09.12 06:53:00 -
[43]
Originally by: Angelus Xenotov
This is easily exploited:
Step:
1. Get a perma-tank ally (Either alt or player with a spare alt account), who can tank your heavy missiles.
2. Spam ally with heavy missiles from server up to server dt.
3. ????
4. Profit!
Its too easy to exploit.
Well.. one way to make it exploit proof is to count killed npc-s or other non trial account players using missiles!
That simple!
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Ilvan
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Posted - 2007.09.12 07:08:00 -
[44]
I /antisign this with the fury of a thousand suns.
And lol @ the dude who not only sells timecodes but wants to get more SP by grinding. You must have less of a life than I do, and that says a lot.
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Xeron Silverblade
Esthar Industries
Tres Viri
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Posted - 2007.10.29 07:07:00 -
[45]
as stated here i'd like to get some kind of reward as well...
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Eleana Tomelac
Gallente
Through the Looking Glass
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Posted - 2007.10.29 10:39:00 -
[46]
The reward for an activity is isk.
The reward for isk is buying implants.
The reward for implants is faster skill training.
The reward for skills is isk.
So... activity => isk => implants => more skills => more isks
Aren't you already rewarded for your activity in skills?
--
Pocket drone carriers (tm) enthousiast !
Say hello to my tiny friends ! |
Lothros Andastar
Gallente
Imperium Forces
United Freemen Alliance
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Posted - 2007.10.29 11:12:00 -
[47]
Originally by: Eleana Tomelac
The reward for an activity is isk.
The reward for isk is buying implants.
The reward for implants is faster skill training.
The reward for skills is isk.
So... activity => isk => implants => more skills => more isks
Aren't you already rewarded for your activity in skills?
/Shakes Hand
You sir have won EvE! 
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Tiger313
313th Squadron
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Posted - 2007.10.29 12:39:00 -
[48]
I do think the reward of being online more then your pal is ISK. If he manages to still get as much ISK as you then there's something fundamentally wrong with the way in which you earn your ISK. I think it's quite fair that people get skills over time, instead of getting skills for the time they actually log on. You see, your pal does pay the same amount of money for his account. If he can't get on more then maybe an hour a day, then the only way he should feel that is in his in-game wallet really.
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Eleana Tomelac
Gallente
Through the Looking Glass
|
Posted - 2007.10.29 12:53:00 -
[49]
Yes, eve is hardcore gamer friendly and casual gamer friendly!
Isn't this great?
--
Pocket drone carriers (tm) enthousiast !
Say hello to my tiny friends ! |
Vanessa Vasquez
Caldari
|
Posted - 2007.11.07 12:16:00 -
[50]
Well, i like the idea of the EVE skill system very much. Buying a book and reading it to increase a skill makes totally sense to me. On the other side, what about learning by doing?
Why not combine best of both worlds? There could be (additional to SP) a kind of EP, which could be gained by almost every action a character takes. For missions or PvP it should be pretty easy to add a certain amount of EP per kill. Easy as well for miners, scientists and producers.Trade and hauling could be difficult, i admit.
My idea goes like if a char plays 8hours a day a week (so that's 56h playtime), he should earn EP aquivalent to shorten a Rank1 skill for about 56 minutes. That would not affect balancing at all, but give a certain motivation and more possibilies.
It would even remove some anger from people who don't see a balancing in training 30 days or more for a single skill, when the pay a monthly fee for the game ;)
Sorry 4 my bad english, hope you understand anyway
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Rjaiajik Kajvoril
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Posted - 2007.12.04 07:24:00 -
[51]
NO CHANGE TO THE SKILLS!!!!
The skill system works, it's innovative and different. It's the reason I and most people who play EVE love it so much. I work 5 nights a week, 9 hour shifts. I have weekend commitments. I can play for 30mins at a time normally. Why should I have to suffer.
The fact is you want a reward for being more active on EVE. Well think of this as being reality for a minute. My character goes out and does stuff for 1 hour a day maybe (on average). Your character does stuff for 5 hours a day. If we're doing the same things you get 5 times the money, standing and actual practice that I get. You are better at the game (YOU! not your damn character). You've earned more money and you have higher agent standings. THAT IS YOUR ******* REWARD!
Congratulations on being a ******. Now go back to a game where the rewards for playing the game are not legitimized into a real life concept such as reputation and wealth but are given an abstract name that gives you progressively more power.... let's call it.... level, that's a good name.
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Cyberus
Caldari
Wreckless Abandon
Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2007.12.10 20:28:00 -
[52]
Well..... When i did start play Beta and after the game went GOLD thats exactly first thing what i have noticed. My prictice ( flying ship/shooting guns/ warping/ selling/ buying stuff/ or anything else what i do and have skill for do not impact my skill traning at all. I was realy confused why is that.
I beleave that EVE skill traning must have impact from the PRICTICE even if it not the high one.
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Law Enforcer
Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2007.12.10 20:34:00 -
[53]
yawr, implement this idea plz.
*targets veldspar roid, sets to orbit, f1 f2 f3 f4 f5 f6 f7 f8, goes to sleep*.
Your signature exceeds the maximum allowed dimensions of 400x120 pixels and filesize of 24000 bytes -Valorem ([email protected]) |
Cedric Diggory
Perfunctory Oleaginous Laocoon Mugwumps
|
Posted - 2007.12.10 21:15:00 -
[54]
My word, someone has hit on the solution to the "Amarr oomph" problem: Lasers use no ammo, so we are the only race who can spend all night shooting an asteroid to improve our gunnery skills!
Yay!
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Illioe
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Posted - 2008.01.05 16:57:00 -
[55]
All this thread is about is old players wanting to maintain the SP lead they have.
Currently old players have a huge lead on anyone starting fresh that is essentially impossible to ever match (impossible if new clone levels are continually added as needed). A change in the skill system would simply remove this imbalance. Obviously training over time would not be removed, and players would not be forced to grind. However I definitely don't see a problem with providing a means for players to catch up.
If an old player has 30m skillpoints, and continues to train passively with the current system (say 1.5m points/month). While a new starting player begins with 800k skillpoints, but trains them twice as fast due to active playing (say 3m points/month) it would take the new player 21 months just to catch up. After 22 months of entirely active playing a "new" player would finally surpass an old player who has trained entirely passively for the entire game. The old player is still not forced to "grind", since, as they say to justify the current system, skill points aren't everything if you specialize.
Even if the old player also takes advantage of the new system, the new player still would be unable to catch up until the old player hit the skill peak (by maximum clone available, current 92mil) 21 months later, which the new player would take 31 months of active play to achieve.
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Tiamut Omega
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Posted - 2008.01.05 17:56:00 -
[56]
No thanks. I have a real life job, I want a game where I do not to devote my life to it in order to become one of the heavy hitters. I already have to deal with the old players that think blowing your ship up because they can is their way of enjoying themselves, as well as the new players that spend real money for isk so they can behave the same way.
I do not see where rewarding those very people is going to make game play more enjoyable. If they get rewards there will be more of them. If I am as a result penalized, I will always be a valid target for them. No thanks.
By not rearding those people, I will eventually become skilled enough to at least force those people to pick someone, other than me, as their target of oppertunity. Or at least they will regret it when they make me the target...
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Blipangel
Pan Galactic Gargle Blasters
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Posted - 2008.01.25 19:42:00 -
[57]
I see both sides of the argument. Due to the implant aspect of the game I see the skill training very much the way I envision Neo's "learning" kung fu in the matrix movie. He downloads at an accelerated rate by way of comparison, but if you subscribe to this concept, unlearning could be justified by considering the mind like a hard drive. If you "unlearn" a skill, its a bit like freeing up memory and running a disk defrag. You could opt to unlearn something and in exchange be given a modest boost to the learning time of another skill. It would need to be balanced so that you're getting back less than what you give up to avoid abuse, but it could be implemented as a viable option that would please some players like myself who dinked around with the learning system and might want to optimize.
Just my 0.02 isk on the subject.
Please resize image to a maximum of 400 x 120, not exceeding 24000 bytes, ty. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] - Cortes |
Nekopyat
|
Posted - 2008.01.25 21:14:00 -
[58]
Originally by: Illioe
All this thread is about is old players wanting to maintain the SP lead they have.
I'm a new player (about 6 months of play time) and I'm against changing the skill system.
There is already too much grind in this game... adding in skill grind to 'catch up' would cause many casual players (given the average age of EvE players, this will be a lot) to loose interest.
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Nekopyat
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Posted - 2008.01.25 21:20:00 -
[59]
Originally by: Dotard
Me and my buddy are both at equal levels on our learning skills. He sets his and comes back in 5 days. I play EvE everyday. There should be SOME kind of "reward" I can get skill wise for logging on everyday vs. those who log on once or twice a week.
Reward?
Let's see. Better distribution of skills (logging in every day opens up more skills that have the 2m-4h training time that would be wasted logging in every 5 days) for starters.
Beyond that, there is ISK, standing, LP, mined minerals, etc. Lots of things can only be done and advanced while on-line.
And of course, there is the reward of actually _playing_ the game. EvE isn't about 'winning', it's about 'playing'. If you play every day then you have fun in EvE every day, while your buddy only gets to play the game a couple times a week.
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Reptzo
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Posted - 2008.01.25 23:24:00 -
[60]
Originally by: Illioe
All this thread is about is old players wanting to maintain the SP lead they have.
That is exactly what this is about. Some of us have been playing this game for years, 3 myself. I left WoW and other similar games because the point was simply to get to max level. I don't want a game where i have to play to advance, i am already paying, i have a real life, I don't want to have to work (grind) and pay real money, just to get better. You and others are just greedy and want more than what your being given. When YOU joined, you knew they way it worked. And if you didn't, I'm sure you figured it out fast enough to decide whether you were wasting your money or not. If you want to grind so that you are better then the people how have played for REAL LIFE years longer then you, go to ANY OTHER MMO. EVE is not about grinding skills, its about time for skill. If you don't like it, LEAVE. Because let me tell you what, you tell all these old players who are whining about the newbies being equal and don't want to give that up (myself included) that suddenly they have to grind faster then the newbies (who somehow have virtually infinite hours to play) if they want to stay better, most of them will leave. Because they joined eve because of the way the system was. And if you change that, you may as well rename the game to WOW - EVE Edition.
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Yuri Mengeroth
Minmatar
Very Bad Things
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Posted - 2008.01.26 02:57:00 -
[61]
A resounding NO! |
Yukiyo
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Posted - 2008.01.26 03:23:00 -
[62]
Well, if you think about it, 'You' are not doing anything. 'You' are telling a ship to do something. We are not gunnners and pilots in that respect. If anything, the people actually working on the ship would improve, until they all die when it inevitably goes up in flames.
Skills in EvE are more like a Matrix download i think, only a lot slower, not like actually physically gaining experience in doing something. Dwarf picks up axe, hits lots of stuff, pod pilot plugs himself into ship and communicates instructions for other people to make things happen.
Don't ask me how to justify how a learned skill can increase a physical property such as armor or hull points though :)
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John Reaper
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Posted - 2008.01.26 11:32:00 -
[63]
/signed
We need some experience or/and using based Skill learning !
And NO ! It's not really possible to exploit this, if it's well implemented with protections. The main problem is, the old players here are scared to lost their status ingame. Currently it's absolute impossible to reach them as new player. So the new players want this feature and the old not. This is the truth.
greetings
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Nekopyat
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Posted - 2008.01.27 01:43:00 -
[64]
Originally by: John Reaper
/signed
So the new players want this feature and the old not. This is the truth.
Not really. The things proposed here help the old players just as much as the new ones.
What this is really about is new players wanting to out-do each other and impatient people who are used to power-leveling.
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Selene Le'Cotiere
Amarr
I-Omniscient-I
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Posted - 2008.01.27 01:58:00 -
[65]
Originally by: Nekopyat
Originally by: John Reaper
/signed
So the new players want this feature and the old not. This is the truth.
Not really. The things proposed here help the old players just as much as the new ones.
What this is really about is new players wanting to out-do each other and impatient people who are used to power-leveling.
Like those from WoW or EverGrind (Quest)?
I see what they are doing... 
***
"Some would call me a Demon. Others, a Vampire. But if the truth be told, I'm a child of the moon and a Goddess among men."
Free pint of blood for the Dev who agrees |
Aeons Plus
Gallente
|
Posted - 2008.01.27 03:36:00 -
[66]
Ok, speeding up skill training by use. Sure why not. just a few problems like can't speed up level 1's. Also what about if items need more than 1 skill. More thought needs to be done to make it right.
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Mayrissa
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Posted - 2008.02.08 15:06:00 -
[67]
I would like something that could shorten the learning time by 2% or less while I was logged in and actively playing, because I am putting time into the game yet someone else who just ignores it for days / weeks on end can be just as good as me if he waits.
I don't think 2% would be enough for there to be that much abuse, it just makes it feel like i'm actually accomplishing something rather than just killing time.
maybe a system where you could gradually increase the bonus up to 5% would be good.
I've got no idea how you would put this in game though
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Eleana Tomelac
Gallente
Through the Looking Glass
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Posted - 2008.02.08 15:19:00 -
[68]
Originally by: Mayrissa
I would like something that could shorten the learning time by 2% or less while I was logged in and actively playing, because I am putting time into the game yet someone else who just ignores it for days / weeks on end can be just as good as me if he waits.
Define actively playing... Because in eve, it's something which has many ways.
Originally by: Mayrissa
I don't think 2% would be enough for there to be that much abuse, it just makes it feel like i'm actually accomplishing something rather than just killing time.
You are killing time when playing eve? ever considered quitting?
Originally by: Mayrissa
maybe a system where you could gradually increase the bonus up to 5% would be good.
Implants? You play, you get isk, you buy implants, put them in your head, and... +4 is... 20% for a total with learnings around 20...
So, it's already in game.
--
Pocket drone carriers (tm) enthousiast !
Assault Frigates MK II |
Marlona Sky
Caldari
D00M.
Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2008.02.25 06:34:00 -
[69]
There is three main reasons I play this game. One is the way the learning is done.
I would cancel my accounts ASAP if it went to where stupid grinders and marco people could just play the game 23/7 and have 60m sp in a month. THIS IS NOT WOW!!!
If you really want learning to be like that go play WoW.
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Ena Zanos
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Posted - 2008.02.28 18:35:00 -
[70]
Edited by: Ena Zanos on 28/02/2008 18:37:34
Edited by: Ena Zanos on 28/02/2008 18:36:36
Noo no no and no (and if I missed any suggestion, let me add a few more no no no no).
As already stated, there already is a system for this in the game called implants which needs isk.
And don't you EVER doubt that you don't gain more skills by playing activly because you gain player skills(not the in game skills that is). And if you snear at this, you really have no idea about what you are talking. The greatest thing in this game is that a new character CAN affect the a fight IF he/she knows what he/she is dooing. It is NOT like wow where a lvl 1 can't hit a lvl 70. Skilled players in cruisers (in low sp characters) can take down high sp characters in much more expensive ships. By playing the game you learn HOW to do it. You learn how to counter setups, how to use speed, how to use ew. This skill is worth ALOT and the only way to get it is to play the game.Due to the complexity of the game, people who play alot has a HUUUGE edge compared to people who do not no matter if you are a trader, pvper, pveer or something else. In this game knowledge about game mechanics and actual experience play a big factor. Also by playing alot means more isk = better ships, better modules, better rigs, better implants etc etc etc.
So let me summarize. NOOOOOOOOOO to activity affecting sp.
/korpulens ftw
edit: /me waves at the ghastly triumvirate above. ;)
edit2: /me declares herself a proud Atlas member to clarify above wave. doh.
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Rob Buie
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Posted - 2008.02.28 18:50:00 -
[71]
I'd rather see a craftable pharmaceutical introduce that increases my skilling rates for a 6-24 hour period. Make it cost me a 50 million a day to get double the skill time but that way the system still stays as is, I just have an option to grind level.
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Rob Buie
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Posted - 2008.02.28 19:11:00 -
[72]
Edited by: Rob Buie on 28/02/2008 19:14:41
Originally by: Ena Zanos
As already stated, there already is a system for this in the game called implants which needs isk.
implants dont cut it, what he wants is a way to actively effect his characters skilling rate, it needs to be exploit free which his idea is not and needs more work, but he has a valid point for mmo'ers that play 30+ hours a week.
As well if i see a video of a well coordinated, well practiced roaming gang of tech 1 cruisers and frigates take down an equally well coordinated roaming gang of hac's, logistics, interceptors, interdictors etc, i'll find myself in a paradox matching that of the observable simaltaneous particle and wave-like behaviour of energy and thus blow my brains out (and yes I wanted to make my point sound slightly smart i thought it was funny and it hits home harder, I'm in sciences, I like this stuff, sue me)
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Tarron Sarek
Gallente
Cadien Cybernetics
|
Posted - 2008.02.28 20:27:00 -
[73]
Originally by: Nekopyat
What this is really about is new players wanting to out-do each other and impatient people who are used to power-leveling.
Short and sweet - this.
The devs would be ill advised catering to the people who want to play EVE like a spaceship-shooter.
___________________________________
- Balance is power, guard it well -
Please stop using the word 'nerf'
Nothing spells 'incompetence' or 'don't take me serious' like those four letters |
Ena Zanos
|
Posted - 2008.02.29 16:40:00 -
[74]
"an equally well coordinated roaming gang of hac's, logistics, interceptors, interdictors"
But that's the point isn't it. Casuals won't have the same coordination, nor the same well fittings, nor the same ability to adapt to situations as the hardcore gamer. And I've read in uni as well, actually, I am teaching in it so throwing fancy pancy words don't really impress me. ALOT of people (new and old, though perhaps old has a larger percentage) do not want this. So what you are suggesting is changing (destroying for some/alot) the game for many who has put in alot of time into this game. By not changing, yes there will alwasy be the difference but we are not destroying the game, just forcing everyone to to do what everyone else has done (and not even that since implants and learning skills are easier to get these days thus making it easier to get skillpoints). If this is not to your liking to the degree that you can't stand it if stays the way it is, I humbly suggest you try another game, instead of trying to destroy the game for those who actually have made eve what it is today (I mean the player base, obviously, in this dynamic, player driven game. Ofcourse ccp actually built it.) Now I know alot of you only suggested it and ment no ill and I do agree, everything is worth investigating and discussing.
Cheers
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Rob Buie
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Posted - 2008.03.01 01:02:00 -
[75]
Originally by: Ena Zanos
"an equally well coordinated roaming gang of hac's, logistics, interceptors, interdictors"
Quote:
But that's the point isn't it. Casuals won't have the same coordination, nor the same well fittings, nor the same ability to adapt to situations as the hardcore gamer.
Fittings are defined by what skills you have, an hour of mining covers the fittings on just about any t2 cruiser class ship. But aside from that yes this is a very player skill driven game, however the fact that you have to just wait to skill is an issue when really theres no benefit to be had from skills but being able to fly more ships, not flying them better after you've specialised in one, you just get to fly more (equivalent to playing different classes in any other mmorpg).
Quote:
So what you are suggesting is changing (destroying for some/alot) the game for many who has put in alot of time into this game.
So your saying that because you've been around longer and by no effort on your own part just paying for the game longer you deserve to be able to play more classes (ships) than anyone whose paid less. Money = levels? I doubt you can argue this is a fair system, but I think one can argue rewarding players for their efforts provided that doesnt give the player an unmatchable advantage but rather just helps the player specialise faster to a level cap than players who do nothing is a pretty reasonable argument.
Quote:
ALOT of people (new and old, though perhaps old has a larger percentage) do not want this.
CCP wants new players or else they wouldnt be taking the game to steam. Better get your voice heard now before they make the decision how their going to tailor the game to the masses. They know this game has a lifespan, in at most 5 years there will be games that will rival CCP's domination on the player controlled world mmorpg niche. The fact that it has the playerbase it has after 5 years is amazing as it is, but I can guarantee they want more and theres a significant population not playing this game because of the skilling system already.
Quote:
If this is not to your liking to the degree that you can't stand it if stays the way it is, I humbly suggest you try another game, instead of trying to destroy the game for those who actually have made eve what it is today I mean the player base, obviously, in this dynamic, player driven game.
I'm taking the backdoor and buying a character. I just dont see why I should have to sacrifice my identity to have a character whos 'waited' longer to be able to fly more ships.
EvE is an empty vacuum of 0.0 space where theres room for at least 4 times the amount of players currently active in the space. To use 6 0.0 systems to their full extent one needs a 150 active players mining+ratting 14 hours a week if the system is ratted in 16 hours a day (resulting in a total of 52.5 billion isk  ). Find me any alliance who even comes close to this. Theres nothing to destroy by giving players a means to level faster as long as they cant infinitely outlevel other players but everything to gain because well see a change in 0.0 from tribal warfare to stabilised civilisation with epic wars.
Quote:
And I've read in uni as well, actually, I am teaching in it so throwing fancy pancy words don't really impress me.
hardly anything 'fancy' either if you've been to uni, it was a joke with a parodying tough guy attitude...
I'd like to direct you to my suggestion for a solution to balance this predicament. I think its well thought out but needs more work and I would appreciate your criticisms and suggestions. I would hope that this could be a way to strike a balance between the EvE community and open it up to the those in the mmorpg community who would play this game if they had the option to affect their characters progression.
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=715153&page=1
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Ena Zanos
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Posted - 2008.03.03 13:18:00 -
[76]
A couple of fair points (though you havenot made an converter out of me)but I am most impressed by the fact you justbought a character. It isn't even a backdoor since ccp allows for the buying and selling of characters. It is the perfect setup if you want to put in the time and play with the "big" boys and girls directly. I can read through and comment if you like but the link you gave was nonfunctional.
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Nekopyat
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Posted - 2008.03.03 15:46:00 -
[77]
Originally by: Rob Buie
Yes but CCP owns this game and they CCP want new players or else they wouldnt be taking the game to steam. Better get your voice heard now before they make the decision how they're going to tailor the game to the masses.
You do realize that many niche games move to steam to help streamline distribution without changing their content for 'mass market'. Yes they want new players but the are getting them through a different distribution/marketing chain rather then content change to go after a different demographic.
Quote:
They know this game has a lifespan, in at most 5 years there will be games that will rival CCP's domination on the player controlled world mmorpg niche. The fact that it has the playerbase it has after 5 years is amazing as it is, but I can guarantee they want more and theres a significant population not playing this game because of the skilling system already.
So... they should make the game more like everyone else ahead of time? Seriously, this sounds like a 'well, we're gonna die eventually anyway, let's start hacking off limbs now!' argument. EvE has survived this 5 years because it appeals to long term players that do not find all those other games fun (or who level fun games when they changed to be more mass market).
You keep talking about people who won't play because of the skill system, but I wonder, how many of those people would be willing to play for, say, 3 or 4 years? The skill tree currently, with max implants and planning, takes a full 27 YEARS to train. This is not exactly an accident.
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Buyerr
Hedion University
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Posted - 2008.03.15 13:25:00 -
[78]
would be to hard to balance... what about tanking? perma tanking in mission spots then going afk for a few hours, then come back and have a ton of extra sp...
i like the idea, it is just way to easy to exploit .. sadly
I declare war on stupidity |
Kitoba
Legion of Dynamic Discord
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Posted - 2008.03.15 13:51:00 -
[79]
It seems like this thread is basically about players of new chars wanting to be able to "go lvl 70" and instaendgamepwn everything, whining about not having any instarewards and generally sucking compared to everybody worth envying.
Me too, but only kind of. Endgamepwning is boring: You could equally well argue to build idkfa and iddqd into the game.
Let's simply reset tranquility and claim 0.0 with 10k sp chars in frigs.
<endofthread/>
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Ed Bever
Six Sense Corp.
CryoGenesis Mining Syndicate
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Posted - 2008.04.02 12:02:00 -
[80]
Originally by: Wander Lost
Besides, do you want hardcore players out to get you MORE HARDCORE = no ty.
That should be easy to counter: being podded --> loss of experience. It would stimulate group efforts to take out those playing long, and thus, increase groupspirit.
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Ed Bever
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Posted - 2008.04.02 17:56:00 -
[81]
Or maybe i'm just frustrated because it takes so long :P
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Marlona Sky
Caldari
D00M.
Triumvirate.
|
Posted - 2008.04.19 23:19:00 -
[82]
NO WAY!!!
Go play WoW.
CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you and... scouts, logistic ships, people to web you, alts with bonuses, not fitting nice gear, avoiding trafic hubs, etc... easy right?? |
Gulli Lille
|
Posted - 2008.05.22 09:01:00 -
[83]
Stop comparing the suggestions to WoW. No one has made any suggestion that is comparable to WoW so far.
There are many mmorpgs out there and some of them have skill training resembling some of the suggestions in this thread, but WoW is not one of them!
My suggestion:
Every skill should have a theoretical and a practical part.
Many real life educations have this, so you could even sell it to the role playing people.
You train skills just like today, but for the skill to complete, you have to gain some practical experience in the area. Level 1 skills will of course be completely theoretical.
This eliminates the people leveling characters without ever playing(I know people who have leveled characters for more than 6 months without ever logging in to do anything but train new skills).
I know the counter-argument will be that if they have paid for the game for x amounts of months, they should be able to get the same stuff as people who are paying AND playing.
That's just stupid. If that's the case, I should to be able to buy skill points for real life money, since that is all they are investing in the game.
And no, I don't think you should be able to buy skill points for real money, but that is what these people are doing already.
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Thunderbird Anthares
Crimson Star Empire
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Posted - 2008.05.22 09:07:00 -
[84]
No.
EVE is not "other mmorpg"
Walk away.
------------------------------------------------
When you get to the end of your journey,everything that really matters is the journey itself. |
xena zena
Catalyst Corporation
Dominatus Phasmatis
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Posted - 2008.05.22 09:09:00 -
[85]
Theres no point in arguing this, the eve skill system is SET IN STONE it won't EVER be changed like this or even remotely like this or anyway what so ever. What you have now is how the skill system will ALWAYS be. Talk to your blue in the face, won't make any difference. 
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procurement specialist
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Posted - 2008.05.22 16:54:00 -
[86]
Originally by: Felonious Crimes
okay this idea has most likely been asked beforebut a quick look through a few pages back didnt yield a topic or anything i thought id post about it.
im a Gallene player. through training and using all the ship skills (for all 4 races) ive come to realize that the caldari race is for me. missiles and longrange bombardment.
i like to joke that im a traitor to my people and have allied myself with the cladari.
anyways. my main L3 mission ship is a ferox (until i get another drake (last 2 went pop) ive been using heavy missiles and heavy missile launchers for a while now. obviously ive put alot of time into using them and have fired a fair deal of missiles.
since ive used missiles so much i felt that, just like i nreal life, the more you use them the better you understand them...the better you learn to usethem.
so there you have it...somewhere in that web of words is what im asking. is there a possibility of some sort of "time spent" option. where constantly using a certain type of weapon will slowly (very slowly) lower the amount of time it takes to train a skill?
for example: ive been using heavy missiles for about 4 months now. for those 4 months it would be nice if i culd have reduced my heavy missiles level 5 rank by 4 hours, or 8 hours, or even 1 day.
obviously the more time you spend using something the better you become at using it. so why doesent this apply in eve? COULD it apply in eve?
what everyone is ignoring is how did you lose a drake on an l3 mission? you can tank them where it takes a serious l4 mission to kill one.
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Nekopyat
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Posted - 2008.05.22 17:59:00 -
[87]
Originally by: procurement specialist
what everyone is ignoring is how did you lose a drake on an l3 mission? you can tank them where it takes a serious l4 mission to kill one.
Maybe the peep was armor tanking ^_~
Though more realistically, even a drake (without rigs) can get in serious trouble if you aggro the entire room. Esp if you take on some of the 'you should run away from' aspects of a mission.
For instance there are a few L3s that have multi-battleship spawns that you are supposed to avoid. **** them off and handle it poorly and they can take out a BC pretty quickly. I know there is at least one mission where there is an optional set of 8BB, 8BC, 8HC, 8DD. Even a well fitted BC can struggle with that kind of DPS if they all get you in range.
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Gulli Lille
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Posted - 2008.05.22 21:19:00 -
[88]
Originally by: xena zena
Theres no point in arguing this, the eve skill system is SET IN STONE it won't EVER be changed like this or even remotely like this or anyway what so ever. What you have now is how the skill system will ALWAYS be. Talk to your blue in the face, won't make any difference.
This forum is called "Features and Ideas Discussion". It does not mean "Ideas to be implemented right now or EVER for that matter".
People are meant to discuss their ideas and make constructive criticism to help improve the ideas. So when people dismiss DISCUSSIONS about changes in the game, they really are the ones who should just go away.
I am not saying how the system must be, I'm suggesting a feature, that would actually help some unfortunate side effects of the way the skill system is working now, without it ever affecting anyone who plays the game regularly.
It is also funny to see how the old folks in the game, think that what makes the game good for them, is what makes the game good for everyone and those who disagree, are simply unworthy of the glory that is Eve.
When you people started out, the world was different! New people are requesting new features and some of them will be implemented. Maybe the much needed tweaks of the skill system will be implemented, maybe not, but the game is either evolving or dying and you seem to prefer it dying, just as long as it's dying the way you like it.
So NO! Nothing is set in stone and certainly not to the extend that people shouldn't even be allowed to TALK about how they WISH the Eve skill system was, without old farts joining in, screaming and yelling about WoW(which still has NOTHING to do with the Eve skill system tweaks being suggested) and XP grinding(which only one or two of the suggested tweaks could potentially lead to).
So to summarize: This is a feature and ideas forum. If your post contains neither new ideas nor features or CONSTRUCTIVE criticism to the suggested ideas(positive comments about the current skill system is not a constructive criticism of the idea in the thread), keep your fingers off the keyboard!
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Nekopyat
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Posted - 2008.05.22 21:30:00 -
[89]
Originally by: Gulli Lille
When you people started out, the world was different! New people are requesting new features and some of them will be implemented. Maybe the much needed tweaks of the skill system will be implemented, maybe not, but the game is either evolving or dying and you seem to prefer it dying, just as long as it's dying the way you like it.
The problem is, this suggestion, every time it comes up, involves killing the game a little, ok, it requires killing it a lot. It requires removing something that makes EvE unique and accessible to casual players.
It is also mind-numbingly hypocritical which bugs people. "We want to catch up the big dogs!" while at the same time "Well, people who can't play a lot will still progress at the same speed! So they aren't being hurt!".
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Gulli Lille
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Posted - 2008.05.22 22:56:00 -
[90]
Well no one commented my suggestion, they just continued to ramble on about the end of the (Eve) universe if things ever change.
My suggestion was to fix an exploit(I am pretty sure no dev ever meant for Eve to be played by people who were afk for months at a time), but even that idea got completely dismissed without any discussion (In the New Ideas discussion forum none the less).
My suggestion ONLY required people to be active players, in order for them to get the levels they train for.
I did not say that you should earn the level by grinding XP or shooting at asteroids while being afk or any of the other insane and so incredible easy to fix bug exploits people are talking about.
One hour of active play per skill trained, should be no problem for anyone who's actually playing the game. Even if they have a life outside of Eve.
And just to show the asteroid/friendly tank shooting exploits are easily fixed, here's how it could be done:
When you hit, tank or repair something, your theoretical XP is accumulated as an invisible stat on the ship taking/doing the damage or getting the repairs and you only get the XP payout, when the ship you were shooting at, is destroyed.
For repair stats, you only get stats for repairs you make on a ship, when the ship that did that damage gets destroyed.
Naturally if more people do damage to the same ship, they only get XP equivalent to the amount of damage they did.
Repairing(or shield regeneration) removes any accumulated XP on a ship.
Support classes can get a fixed percentage of the XP earned in their group, by the ships they directly influence in the battle.
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Marcus Gideon
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Posted - 2008.05.22 23:31:00 -
[91]
Not sure if anyone has actually brought up this particular point, but...
What skill do you want to increase by performing what act?
If you are in a 1 on 1 dogfight, blasting each other until one of you is limping home in a pod while the other loots/salvages the wreck...
You are using ship pilot skills, which could encompass several types of ships when you see that T2 craft take several levels of several ships to use. Then you're using your chosen weapons, whether they're turrets, missiles, drones, etc. Each one of those weapons has a set of sub-skills that are affecting the effectiveness of the weapon. Then you're using various modules onboard, which all have their own associated skills for use. AND THEN you have your shields, armor, and hull wearing away during the fight... which do have skills that influence shield recharge and overall armor HP and so forth...
Do you all see why you can't just have XP and call it good? What rate are you hoping to accumulate your "active SP", and where to they go. If you gain ship related skills anytime you move, then those will max out before anything else. If you gain weapons skills, then I'll just shoot asteroids until they max too. Shields and armor would only require me to setup a permatank, and let a 0.9 rat pound away at me for a while.
The vast variety of skills and applications in Eve makes it virtually impossible to have a fair and balanced distribution of "active SP" unless they do what they are doing right now.
When you select a skill, you aren't "downloading" it like the Matrix. You are in fact reviewing the textbook you bought, and probably doing more research in the Eve version of Google. You're participating in "interstellar correspondence courses". And that's where your "active" training applies. You are always actively learning some aspect of the game.
No matter how much people hope for grinding XP, it will not balance out. Rookies start out with a fair amount of SP depending on what "class" and "spec" they chose. It is up to the player to find a way to make it out there. CCP has never given the impression they intend to hold your hand once you finish the Tutorials. As soon as you leave that first station, you're on your own to find your way in the universe.
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Gulli Lille
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Posted - 2008.05.23 10:57:00 -
[92]
If you still had to train the theoretical part of the skill like today, you could of course only collect SP of the skill you are actively training.
Maybe you could even have more skills training at the same time, like 1 skill per level in a specific learning skill, but you should never be allowed to gain SP in skills you are not actively training at the moment.
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Norjia Blacksteel
Blacksteel Mining and Manufacturing
Apoapsis Multiversal Consortium
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Posted - 2008.06.02 17:07:00 -
[93]
Edited by: Norjia Blacksteel on 02/06/2008 17:08:15
No. One reason I still play eve is that I know I won't fall behind in skill if I don't play much for a week or two.
EVE has the best system for lifer/casual play. Lifer play gets you loads of cash, which you need for bigger toys. But the casuals aren't kept out because at least they can get the skills.
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Norjia Blacksteel
CEO
Blacksteel Mining and Manufacturing |
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