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Podruski
Reflex.
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Posted - 2007.03.11 21:10:00 -
[61]
You have a 3% chance on every single scan. The next scan wont increase in chance after the last one, but the probility before that you might find something on either of the 2 scans increases from 3%, to whatever your binomial distribution finds. Basically, your 25% and 16% numbers are the possibility that in 10 scans you will find him. But the probability after each probe that you drop is still 3%! No matter how many times you have tried it. The previous scan is 100% irrelevant to the probability of the scan that you are doing at that time.
Not to mention, WHO EVER SAID THAT THEY CAN'T WARP? This will require them to have to check on their status, and have to actually pay attention.
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Gix Firebrand
Caldari School of Applied Knowledge
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Posted - 2007.03.11 23:58:00 -
[62]
Err Poddie.. you are coming off sounding really lazy.
You basically got the same choices as everyone.
Adapt, whine, or quit. You have chosen the 2nd one.
Yay! :)
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Humpalot
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Posted - 2007.03.12 00:47:00 -
[63]
Edited by: Humpalot on 12/03/2007 00:43:42
Originally by: Podruski You have a 3% chance on every single scan. The next scan wont increase in chance after the last one, but the probility before that you might find something on either of the 2 scans increases from 3%, to whatever your binomial distribution finds. Basically, your 25% and 16% numbers are the possibility that in 10 scans you will find him. But the probability after each probe that you drop is still 3%! No matter how many times you have tried it. The previous scan is 100% irrelevant to the probability of the scan that you are doing at that time.
Yes but you seem to like to fixate on that 3% chance as too low and that ignores the realities of probability. You are correct that each and every scan is an independent event and you will only get a 3% chance of success. But just like rolling a 6-sided die with enough rolls your chances of getting a "1" approach 100% (never quite gets there but so close as to make no odds...again imagine making a million die rolls and the chances of never rolling a "1"). That is despite each individual roll alwyas having a 16.7% chance of hitting the desired number.
So too with scanning in EVE. I don't care if you scan once per day or 100 times per day. The probability that you will get "lucky" in hitting that 3% increases the more times you try. So, in ten tries which takes you all of a whopping 5 minutes you can expect to get "lucky" on one in four rounds of ten tries. Not too bad. Even more you can increase your chances further by using multiple, overlapping probes and/or multiple people scanning. With not too much effort you can increase your overall chances of getting a hit to better than 50% in a reasonable timeframe.
Frankly after doing the math it seems probes need more of a nerf than an un-nerf.
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Elain Reverse
Caldari Shokei
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Posted - 2007.03.12 04:21:00 -
[64]
Originally by: T'Renn Sometimes you get lucky and scan down some mission runner, but CCP has nerfed it so bad that I don't really even bother that much unless we're really bored. They really need to fix that, and put all level 3 agents in lowsec - as if that's never been suggested before. Man up, bears.
Not Going to happend !!! Noone is going to risk Faction fited Faction ship in losec just because someon want to kill them. You have 3 choices or 4 1) go to 0.0 to get real PVP vs PVP fights 2) go fight to high sec but be aware of our friendly neighbor 3) keep kiling PVE ships in PVP ship in losec without whining 4) you can allways quit I am realy getting sick of ppl whitch think they will allways get easy kills. If you dont know, deadspace is created by "natural phenomena" whitch prevents you from warping in as you cant target to anything inside and same phenomena should prevent you from Scanning something inside. If there is something what should get fixed its drones whitch dont have reduced sidnatures by deadspaces as they shoud. Pirates have easy life already enough.
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Lilan Kahn
Amarr The Littlest Hobos
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Posted - 2007.03.12 05:36:00 -
[65]
yes unnerf scane probes!?!
the more deadspace mods a ship has on it the harder it is is to find !
Originally by: Eris Discordia
We break after X amount of threads, then we go wild and then we get our medication.
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Podruski
Reflex.
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Posted - 2007.03.12 06:36:00 -
[66]
Originally by: Elain Reverse
Not Going to happend !!! Noone is going to risk Faction fited Faction ship in losec just because someon want to kill them. You have 3 choices or 4 1) go to 0.0 to get real PVP vs PVP fights 2) go fight to high sec but be aware of our friendly neighbor 3) keep kiling PVE ships in PVP ship in losec without whining 4) you can allways quit I am realy getting sick of ppl whitch think they will allways get easy kills. If you dont know, deadspace is created by "natural phenomena" whitch prevents you from warping in as you cant target to anything inside and same phenomena should prevent you from Scanning something inside. If there is something what should get fixed its drones whitch dont have reduced sidnatures by deadspaces as they shoud. Pirates have easy life already enough.
I have 3 or 4 responses for you: 1. 0.0 isn't pvp. I don't really call 40 v 1 remotely pvp. Hence, the reason I left.. 2. Due to my sec status, high sec is somewhat.... difficult. 3. I dont know if your struggling to see my tone, but im not whining... I'm more or less demanding. 4. If you want help deleting your useless character, I will gladly show you. One less illiterate mission runner who thinks low sec is for fluffy bunnies and stab journeys.
I dont want to look up, but somebody called me lazy... good call. I'm incredibly lazy, infact I will pay 150% markup to save me 1 jump. Ironic though, seems that mission runner are to lazy to check their scanner every so often? It goes both ways.
P.S.... I dont care about you carebears. Flame my post if you wish, but until I see that its somewhat fair to the pirating side, I'm gonna do what I deem necessary for CCP to fix the bs. By the way, who said pirating is easy?
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Humpalot
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Posted - 2007.03.12 13:29:00 -
[67]
Edited by: Humpalot on 12/03/2007 13:31:39 EDIT: Accidentally hit the post button before writing anything.
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Humpalot
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Posted - 2007.03.12 13:35:00 -
[68]
Originally by: Podruski P.S.... I dont care about you carebears. Flame my post if you wish, but until I see that its somewhat fair to the pirating side, I'm gonna do what I deem necessary for CCP to fix the bs. By the way, who said pirating is easy?
First off you should care about carebears. Even if that style of play is not your thing they are a part of the game and an integral part. Indeed most of your style of play is shooting those very people. It makes no sense to skew the game so far to your playstyle that you run off the very people you use for your fun (as it makes no sense for carebears to ask for 100% safe space). In the end it needs to be about overall game balance.
Secondly, the "bs" you are claiming in this thread doesn't seem to really exist yet you persist in thinking it does. I have shown, with simple math, that your chances are nowhere near as bad as you think and, in fact, look pretty poor for the mission runners. It's pretty straightforward and no matter how much you want to close your eyes to it 2+2 will always equal 4. However, even if you do not want to listen to a carebear crunching numbers you also have other pirates in this thread who do precisely what you do and claim perfectly acceptable "hit" rates and manage to nail missioners on a regular basis.
So really, where is the problem?
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Bellum Eternus
Gallente CRICE Corporation Lotka Volterra
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Posted - 2007.03.12 13:42:00 -
[69]
The chance to successfully probe out a mission runner using regular recon probes is next to zero. Generally speaking, if you can get close enough to use a 5AU recon probe, you can probably get close enough to use a 4AU racial probe. That means that if you have to resort to using a recon probe at all, you're using the 10 or 20AU probes due to range limitations.
These probes are literally useless for finding mission runners. I have yet to find a single mission runner using these probes, before they finish their sometimes hours long missions.
It's complete crap. A 3% (Less IMO) chance per scan to find a mission runner is simply too low. I'd like to see 7-10% per scan. It's perfectly acceptable IMO. I've been running missions myself, and have yet to be probed out. It's not that pirates have it too easy that mission runners die. It's that the mission runners are too stupid to take a few simple precautions and end up getting caught due to their own mistakes. I can't help it if pirates are just naturally smarter than all the carebears out there when it comes to common sense and PVP.
Life Begins at -10!
FIX RECON PROBES |
Exlegion
New Light Schism.
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Posted - 2007.03.12 14:05:00 -
[70]
Originally by: Podruski 1. 0.0 isn't pvp. I don't really call 40 v 1 remotely pvp. Hence, the reason I left..
But fighting PVE-fitted ships with your PVP setup is PVP to you?
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Damien Smith
Turbulent
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Posted - 2007.03.12 14:18:00 -
[71]
I probe people with recon probes, and get pretty good results. I'd try the exploration probes but with my skills it takes 121 seconds a scan. In that amount of time I could have done 4 scans with a recon launcher.
I rarely use anything bigger than a 10au probe though, as it takes enough scan spamming with a 5au as it is, let alone a 20 or 40au.
----- My sparkly tinfoil hat is extremely distracting, and makes my eyes bleed. -Conuion Meow ([email protected]) Join channel 'Turby' or die! (bring pie) Actually... no, it was teh sig. I'm wearing tinfoil goggles already. -Teh Meow |
Humpalot
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Posted - 2007.03.12 14:31:00 -
[72]
Originally by: Bellum Eternus These probes are literally useless for finding mission runners. I have yet to find a single mission runner using these probes, before they finish their sometimes hours long missions.
It's complete crap. A 3% (Less IMO) chance per scan to find a mission runner is simply too low. I'd like to see 7-10% per scan. It's perfectly acceptable IMO.
How easy to you expect it to be for you? You complain that carebears can't be arsed to do whatis necessary (extra work for them) to make themselves safer and here you are griping that things are not easy enough for you?
I just read the thread you linked to and people in there were likewise doing the math and showing how your chances increased well beyond a few percentage points. Further, numerous pirates who scan down missioners stopped by and related that they have excellent success...some even said knowing what they know about scanning missioners they themselves would never mission in low sec.
Numerous tools and scanning tactics were handed to you in that thread and used (not even that hard) make your chances quite good of finding a target. Given the rewards even one T2/faction fitted BS will net you just how easy do you want it to be? It is too easy as is if anything (as stated even by other pirates doing the hunting).
Seems to me if you got things your way you would utterly end all low sec missioning. Bad enough as it is but some will still try it. Even that would dry up if you more than tripled your chances as you are asking.
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Podruski
Reflex.
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Posted - 2007.03.13 01:07:00 -
[73]
Humpalot, you seem to lack basic intelligence. Let me help you out a little bit... With PERFECT skills: Survey V (rank 1) Astrometric Pinpointing 5 (rank 5) Astrometric Triangulation 5 (rank 5) Astrometrics 5 (rank 3) Covert Ops 5 (rank 3)
With ok learning, I count 85 days ( almost 3 months ). Thats 3 months of work to get a 3% chance. Are you joking me? Where the hell do you come up with the idea that its remotely fair? Not to mention, it really doesnt matter if missioners dont come to low sec, it isnt like they are killable anyway.
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Xendie
Celestial Apocalypse Insurgency
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Posted - 2007.03.13 02:35:00 -
[74]
Originally by: Exlegion
Originally by: Podruski 1. 0.0 isn't pvp. I don't really call 40 v 1 remotely pvp. Hence, the reason I left..
But fighting PVE-fitted ships with your PVP setup is PVP to you?
it isnt his fault that you PVE guys whined so much because you were being PVP'd in a PVP Zone dressed in PVE gear. now who's fault is it to not be ready for PVP in a PVP Zone ?
Originally by: "darth solo" bad men came, bad men didnt go home, bad men left containers.
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kill0rbunny
Chimera Intelligence Agency
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Posted - 2007.03.13 09:06:00 -
[75]
Originally by: Polly Math
Originally by: kill0rbunny
Originally by: Polly Math i dont see why a mission runner would bother with lowsec if the chances of getting probed down are 100%. you can use a scout for gate camps, you can have guards in the belts, what could a missionrunner do to protect himself from beeing ganked while having a ton of npc aggro on him? pirates got belts and gates for free buffet, should be enough imo.
Place a scout at the mission entrance gate cloaked and kill the scrambling frigs first.
Omg, that was a hard bit of brainwork, my head aches, i need to take a rest.
Probing mission runners is not that hard. No, Astrometrics Level 1 is not enough to do it. End of Story
erm, not only do you need an alt, you also need a 2nd computer/account?
You just need a good corp for gods sake. Those are corp missions, use your corpmates.
Killboard
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Exlegion
New Light Schism.
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Posted - 2007.03.13 12:08:00 -
[76]
Originally by: Xendie
Originally by: Exlegion
Originally by: Podruski 1. 0.0 isn't pvp. I don't really call 40 v 1 remotely pvp. Hence, the reason I left..
But fighting PVE-fitted ships with your PVP setup is PVP to you?
it isnt his fault that you PVE guys whined so much because you were being PVP'd in a PVP Zone dressed in PVE gear. now who's fault is it to not be ready for PVP in a PVP Zone ?
1) I'm not whining. Hint: See OP. 2) I'm asking Podruski if he considers shooting PVE-fitted targets PVP. I'm curious about his response considering that a blob to him is unfair and is not PVP. 3) I ask you with all kindness and sincerity to please run a level 4 mission in PVP gear (include a warp scrambler on the mid, and any other module you'd use on a player). See how well you fair out against NPC's and please do share your results (if you actually decide to do it). 4) Your response still doesn't answer the question. I'd even be willing to bet that a member of a blob would have a similar response to yours: "It's not my fault you decided to show up with 3 players..."
Disclaimer: I don't feel one way or the other about blobs. I'm honestly trying to understand why you'd consider one disadvantage unfair and the other perfectly OK. Reminds me of the saying: "I'm rock. Sizzors is OK. Nerf Paper!"
Exlegion
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Xendie
Celestial Apocalypse Insurgency
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Posted - 2007.03.13 12:35:00 -
[77]
Originally by: Exlegion Reminds me of the saying: "I'm rock. Sizzors is OK. Nerf Paper!"
Exlegion
wich is exactly what all PVE players were whining about when probes actually worked as they should in lowsec. when they werent almost unprobable in lowsec they cried and whined in 10 threads per day about exploits and whatnot to their ebay bought ships and whatever.
fact remains that probing is not working as it should as the level of immunity for mission runners is off the scale atm. and doing agent missions in a lowsec zone wich is a high risk pvp area should be "high risk" and not almost "no risk".
the game is being carebearized and it is not a good thing.
as for myself being a part of blobs im assuming that everyone by now knows you are full of bull**** almost all my eve time ive been in the minority group on the battlefield. ive been a pirate, ive been a anti-pirate and guess what i was pretty good at both.
what i dont like is CCP running around playing Darwin on behalf of the mentally challenged players that cannot or will not learn how to avoid being blown up or dont want to learn how to shoot back.
if you cannot conquer Darwin you will die in lowsec and cry and whine to a brick wall and when you figure out what makes Darwin tick you will smile and shoot back and survive with ease, to bad that CCP has forgotten what made eve a good game.
Originally by: "darth solo" bad men came, bad men didnt go home, bad men left containers.
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Exlegion
New Light Schism.
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Posted - 2007.03.13 13:37:00 -
[78]
Originally by: Xendie wich is exactly what all PVE players were whining about when probes actually worked as they should in lowsec. when they werent almost unprobable in lowsec they cried and whined in 10 threads per day about exploits and whatnot to their ebay bought ships and whatever.
What do you suppose would happen if missions were probed as easily as you propose in low-sec? By the way, that's quite the assumption there about the "ebay bought ships".
Quote: fact remains that probing is not working as it should as the level of immunity for mission runners is off the scale atm. and doing agent missions in a lowsec zone wich is a high risk pvp area should be "high risk" and not almost "no risk".
That "fact" you say "remains" is being discredited in this very same thread by your fellow pirates.
Quote: the game is being carebearized and it is not a good thing.
Level 4 missions are being moved to low sec, leaving high sec with just level 3's and below. Many players would argue the opposite of just that.
Quote: as for myself being a part of blobs im assuming that everyone by now knows you are full of bull**** almost all my eve time ive been in the minority group on the battlefield. ive been a pirate, ive been a anti-pirate and guess what i was pretty good at both.
Where did I say you are a part of blobs (or anyone else for that matter)?
Quote: what i dont like is CCP running around playing Darwin on behalf of the mentally challenged players that cannot or will not learn how to avoid being blown up or dont want to learn how to shoot back.
Is that what you call people that disagree with your "facts" or that don't share your same interests?
Quote: if you cannot conquer Darwin you will die in lowsec and cry and whine to a brick wall and when you figure out what makes Darwin tick you will smile and shoot back and survive with ease, to bad that CCP has forgotten what made eve a good game.
Lay off the Darwin talk, seriously . IIRC from Philosophy class, humans as a species have stopped evolving. So no need for the context, especially on a video game.
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Damien Smith
Turbulent
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Posted - 2007.03.13 13:47:00 -
[79]
The funny thing is, I probe about the same number of people now as I did in the pre-revelations system. The only difference is that now I do it by dropping a probe and mindlessly spamming the scan button, whereas before I had to actually think to find someone.
It's not harder now, it's ridiculously easy. It's just that now you have a mindless grind instead of a fun challenge.
yay...
----- My sparkly tinfoil hat is extremely distracting, and makes my eyes bleed. -Conuion Meow ([email protected]) Join channel 'Turby' or die! (bring pie) Actually... no, it was teh sig. I'm wearing tinfoil goggles already. -Teh Meow |
Humpalot
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Posted - 2007.03.13 14:22:00 -
[80]
Originally by: Podruski Humpalot, you seem to lack basic intelligence. Let me help you out a little bit... With PERFECT skills: Survey V (rank 1) Astrometric Pinpointing 5 (rank 5) Astrometric Triangulation 5 (rank 5) Astrometrics 5 (rank 3) Covert Ops 5 (rank 3)
With ok learning, I count 85 days ( almost 3 months ). Thats 3 months of work to get a 3% chance. Are you joking me? Where the hell do you come up with the idea that its remotely fair? Not to mention, it really doesnt matter if missioners dont come to low sec, it isnt like they are killable anyway.
Funny who is accusing who of a lack of intelligence. Do you actually read or just swing by to flame?
First off your 85 days for "max" skills to get a 3% chance is WAY off base. The ONLY skill that affects your chances at a hit is Astrometric Triangulation. For your 3% chance that is all you need at L5 and left at L4 you would be just shy of your 3%...hardly a killer difference and WAY less on training. The others only affect scan time or scan deviation or the number of different items you can scan for at the same time (and by all accounts scan deviation is borked on mission runners as even with a HUGE scan deviation warping to them drops you at the acceleration gate).
Where do I come up with that this is fair? Well...we are talking maybe a week or two worth of training and not 85 days to get almost your 3% chance. As you have totally ignored your "3% chance" is, in reality, MUCH better and with not too much work (spam the scan button mostly) you can push your chances to 1-in-4 for all of 5 minutes of work. Further, each missioner you nail will likely be in a T2 (or better) fitted battleship that will probably net you 50 million in mods no problem. The odds show you could reasonably expect to nail two an hour. For 100 million per hour just how freaking easy SHOULD things be?
Finally, you keep going on and on about how it is near impossible to scan down a mission runner. Apparently you do not like math but then why are you ignoring the numerous other posters who ARE pirates and who DO scan down missioners that say they do so with ease and nail them left and right? Re-read this thread, read other threads on the same issue...it is not just one guy but many people saying the same thing. They kill missioners all the time. Are you just staggeringly unlucky or maybe not willing to deal with anything more than one push of a scan button that makes you wait a minute?
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Xendie
Celestial Apocalypse Insurgency
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Posted - 2007.03.13 14:53:00 -
[81]
Originally by: Exlegion
Lay off the Darwin talk, seriously . IIRC from Philosophy class, humans as a species have stopped evolving. So no need for the context, especially on a video game.
i see that you have anyway.
Originally by: "darth solo" bad men came, bad men didnt go home, bad men left containers.
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Exlegion
New Light Schism.
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Posted - 2007.03.13 15:07:00 -
[82]
Originally by: Xendie
Originally by: Exlegion
Lay off the Darwin talk, seriously . IIRC from Philosophy class, humans as a species have stopped evolving. So no need for the context, especially on a video game.
i see that you have anyway.
For some reason your response reminded me of this Family Guy clip .
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Xendie
Celestial Apocalypse Insurgency
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Posted - 2007.03.13 18:57:00 -
[83]
Edited by: Xendie on 13/03/2007 18:53:55
Originally by: Exlegion Edited by: Exlegion on 13/03/2007 15:24:48 Edited by: Exlegion on 13/03/2007 15:06:22
Originally by: Xendie
Originally by: Exlegion
Lay off the Darwin talk, seriously . IIRC from Philosophy class, humans as a species have stopped evolving. So no need for the context, especially on a video game.
i see that you have anyway.
You're so clever.
indeed you are very intelligent today.
Originally by: "darth solo" bad men came, bad men didnt go home, bad men left containers.
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Podruski
Reflex.
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Posted - 2007.03.13 23:06:00 -
[84]
Humpalot, your clueless.. Face it, scanning is well in favor of mission runners. There needs to be something done to change this.
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Humpalot
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Posted - 2007.03.13 23:25:00 -
[85]
Originally by: Podruski Humpalot, your clueless.. Face it, scanning is well in favor of mission runners. There needs to be something done to change this.
I guess you do just swing by to flame but hey man...don't let silly things like facts get in the way of your ill-formed opinions.
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Podruski
Reflex.
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Posted - 2007.03.14 04:25:00 -
[86]
Its sad that you actually think that your pathetic opinion holds water. From the beginning, your trying to explain that probing people is far to simple, and that it isnt fair to your kind. We have proven that even with 3 months of skill training, you still have a **** poor opportunity to even get a hit. If you think a 3% chance is a good chance at getting a person, your head is ****** up. Imagine there being a 3% chance that you could complete your mission with maxed raven skills. Perfect analogy. What would you say to that? Is that 3% of completion still "too easy"? So before you go furthering your useless profession, stop and think that it isn't even close to being fair. I have heard enough of your stupid hypocritical comments in this post. Your points all end with the underlying concept that mission runners should be invulnerable. Now go find another topic to *****, or post with your main so I know who to wardec.
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LordVodka
Earned In Blood
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Posted - 2007.03.14 04:46:00 -
[87]
So I'm totally with pod here... If your not withen 10 au you may as well not even try, and under 5 au hold your breath. Specially if your dealing with the highly intelligent carebears who pull there drones LOL, intelligent. furthermore they need to move all lvl 4's into low sec, why the hell should there be BS spawns in empire... not untill factional warfare at least. One last thing REMOVE TEH GOD DAM BEACONS, even if you do scan the guys the beacon unclaoks you and they all haul ass. FIX IT, and no we won't adapt... carebears get to cry about all these issues so they dont lose a precious ship. Alls we want is a freaking BS kill once in a while.
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LordVodka
Earned In Blood
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Posted - 2007.03.14 04:52:00 -
[88]
Something else just came to my attention, WHY CNA YOU WARP OUT OF DEADSPACE!!!! you can't use a MWD or warp in cause thats the point of hte dam things, but if your leaving all of a sudden you can just warp. So theres another fix, you should have to use the accelerater gates to leave, AND NO I'M NOT KIDDING.
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Humpalot
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Posted - 2007.03.14 05:57:00 -
[89]
Originally by: Podruski Its sad that you actually think that your pathetic opinion holds water.
Opinion? Do the freaking math! It is not opinion unless you think 2+2=4 is an opinion.
Quote: From the beginning, your trying to explain that probing people is far to simple, and that it isnt fair to your kind. We have proven that even with 3 months of skill training, you still have a **** poor opportunity to even get a hit.
Do you actually READ these posts? Tell me again how you have proven it takes 3 months of skill training to get a hit cuz I missed it. Really...point it out. Because there is only ONE skill that affects your chances. Everything else related affects other things (like time to scan).
Quote: If you think a 3% chance is a good chance at getting a person, your head is ****** up. Imagine there being a 3% chance that you could complete your mission with maxed raven skills. Perfect analogy. What would you say to that? Is that 3% of completion still "too easy"? So before you go furthering your useless profession, stop and think that it isn't even close to being fair.
I have shown that your overall chances are much better than 3% over time (and not even that much time). That pesky math thing again. Others, who do the same thing you do, have chimed in that they probe out missioners all the time.
Quote: I have heard enough of your stupid hypocritical comments in this post. Your points all end with the underlying concept that mission runners should be invulnerable. Now go find another topic to *****, or post with your main so I know who to wardec.
Hypocritical? Look that up. And I also said in an earlier post that I do not think missioners should be 100% safe. You fail to see the point that if you had your way NO ONE would dare risk a ship worth hundreds of millions of uninsured mods. You would empty low sec more than it already is.
Pirates moan and gripe about carebears who moan and gripe and yet here you are being every bit as bad. "The game isn't easy mode for me! Fix it!"
Go cry a river elsewhere. You have contributed nothing to this thread beyond whining.
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LordVodka
Earned In Blood
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Posted - 2007.03.14 07:28:00 -
[90]
Well ms hump alot I think i made some valid points so get back to doing what you do best....... |
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