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Podruski
Reflex.
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Posted - 2007.03.08 06:46:00 -
[1]
So i'm sitting within oh, say about 500,000,000m. Prime snooping range. Drop a snoop, scan for this mission raven. He is using 5 hammerhead I's. Fails.. I try it again.. Fails. I drop another snoop. Same story. Whats the deal? you give them warp to 0. You give them immunity in low sec. We forgot about pirating? its a profession. CCP seems to be anti-pirate like the rest of the useless masses.
The only steady income for low sec pirates are mission people. Its possible to probe safespots and belts, so why not deadspaces?
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Snodgey2004
Mega Modal M0nkeys
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Posted - 2007.03.08 06:48:00 -
[2]
 Originally by: Podruski
So i'm sitting within oh, say about 500,000,000m. Prime snooping range. Drop a snoop, scan for this mission raven. He is using 5 hammerhead I's. Fails.. I try it again.. Fails. I drop another snoop. Same story. Whats the deal? you give them warp to 0. You give them immunity in low sec. We forgot about pirating? its a profession. CCP seems to be anti-pirate like the rest of the useless masses.
The only steady income for low sec pirates are mission people. Its possible to probe safespots and belts, so why not deadspaces?
Only 2 weeks ago I spotted a corp doing missions , I scan once and was sat at the entrance to the mission within 3 minutes , we had a new patch since then ?
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T'Renn
Crimson Squall
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Posted - 2007.03.08 07:04:00 -
[3]
Sometimes you get lucky and scan down some mission runner, but CCP has nerfed it so bad that I don't really even bother that much unless we're really bored. They really need to fix that, and put all level 3 agents in lowsec - as if that's never been suggested before. Man up, bears.
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Wanna be a low-sec scumbag? |
MassonA
Caldari
coracao ardente
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Posted - 2007.03.08 07:07:00 -
[4]
this will sound silly, but do you have the correct things chosen in the scan?
___________________________
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Podruski
Reflex.
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Posted - 2007.03.08 07:12:00 -
[5]
hmmm... I say your inches from dying.
drones, ships
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Gix Firebrand
Caldari
School of Applied Knowledge
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Posted - 2007.03.08 08:02:00 -
[6]
Silly new MMPORGer..
Those "useless masses" are your targets, yes?
Without targets you can't really be a pirate correct?
So if some don't get away and/or feel like taking the risk of low sec, your targets go away.
You need to take care of your prey, or else you won't have any.
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Tobias Sjodin
Caldari
Ore Mongers
R0ADKILL
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Posted - 2007.03.08 08:02:00 -
[7]
I think someone calculated that with maximum skills, you have a 5% chance of scanning down someone inside a deepspace mission.
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ArtemisEntreri
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Posted - 2007.03.08 08:32:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Tobias Sjodin
I think someone calculated that with maximum skills, you have a 5% chance of scanning down someone inside a deepspace mission.
Can you say with what probes? I imagine the exploration probes within 0.5 au?
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Lilan Kahn
Amarr
The Littlest Hobos
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Posted - 2007.03.08 08:37:00 -
[9]
Probeing is totaly undoabel, in fact fitting fraktion items on your ship makes you harder to get scaned down!
Originally by: Eris Discordia
We break after X amount of threads, then we go wild and then we get our medication.
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deathforge
The Accursed
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Posted - 2007.03.08 08:44:00 -
[10]
Edited by: deathforge on 08/03/2007 08:40:43
Maybe 1 out of every 10 missions I set out to bust will finish their mission and leave system before getting exploded. I don't know how exactly you're doing it wrong, but you are; it's not at all difficult. At most it takes me 10 minutes.
I mean.... um... yeah, probes are useless, your mission ships are totally safe... come to low-sec 
And by the way, I rule you.
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Low skillpoint Rifter piracy video |
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Damien Smith
Turbulent
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Posted - 2007.03.08 08:55:00 -
[11]
I used to love probing. I'd even go as far as calling it a profession. Now though it's something I do occasionally on an alt if I'm really pestered to do it. It's just not fun to drop a single probe and scan, scan, scan until you get a result. The old system rewarded skill and perseverence, not skillpoints. Time was your biggest enemy in the old system, not magical dice. Great plan though, screw the old school probers and turn probing into an alts job, the noobs need the entire system changing so they can do exploration without putting any skill into it whatsoever.
Bitter? Me? never...
But yeah, just spam that scan button and eventually you'll find them. That is if you don't get bored and do something else instead.
-----
The CAOD forums are extremely distracting, and make my eyes bleed. -Conuion Meow ([email protected])
Join channel 'Turby' or die! (bring pie)
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Stakhanov
Shih Yang Tong
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Posted - 2007.03.08 09:31:00 -
[12]
The problem with probes is that it's all or nothing. Either you can get a result and warp to zero to the gate , or you don't and all you can do is keep scanning. The deadspace shield should affect scan deviation , not the chance of finding something.
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Bellum Eternus
Gallente
CRICE Corporation
Lotka Volterra
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Posted - 2007.03.08 11:02:00 -
[13]
See my sig. Fix probes.
*snip*, Don't flame. -HornFrog
FIX RECON PROBES |
SasRipper
DIE WITH HONOUR
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Posted - 2007.03.08 12:13:00 -
[14]
probed a ds mission runner once took like 10 snoops even then I was luckly.
But yes needs fixed badly
|- My Sig loggedoffskied -|
Save Radar Scanner Man!
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Tobias Sjodin
Caldari
Ore Mongers
R0ADKILL
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Posted - 2007.03.08 12:33:00 -
[15]
Originally by: ArtemisEntreri
Originally by: Tobias Sjodin
I think someone calculated that with maximum skills, you have a 5% chance of scanning down someone inside a deepspace mission.
Can you say with what probes? I imagine the exploration probes within 0.5 au?
If I remember correctly (off the top of my head), with Astrometric Pinpointing at V, and Astrometric Triangulation at V, you got a sensor strength of 25 points (with the snoop). Now, pre-nerf, you would have a pretty good chance of getting someone inside a deadspace, but even with max skills, if the reports were correct, the nerf took deadspaces signal strength by 1/100 of the previous scan-strength value. Which at optimal scanning would get you a 5% success-ratio per scan.
Now, I haven't done the calculations myself, I just write from recollection. I gave up scanning down deadspace-missions since failing it too many times, need the perfect safespot? Start a deadspace, and hide inside it! :P
La famiglia, l'anima, la causa. |
Mr Jay
Pre-nerfed Tactics
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Posted - 2007.03.08 12:40:00 -
[16]
STOP WHINING ABOUT IT AND KILL THEM WHEN THEY ENTER/TRY TO LEAVE THE SYSTEM.
Jeez =\
Absolute Evil pwned my sig =( |
Haitchi Allamut
The Movement
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Posted - 2007.03.08 12:50:00 -
[17]
I agree. The level of security for these people are insane. And if they have to move systems, many dock, fit a ****load of Stabs, and just change back at a station when they get to the target system. They might aswell be in highsec. Hence I approve of this message.
Originally by: Mr Jay
STOP WHINING ABOUT IT AND KILL THEM WHEN THEY ENTER/TRY TO LEAVE THE SYSTEM.
Jeez =\
Go away.
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Jamius
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Posted - 2007.03.08 12:51:00 -
[18]
I could be way off the mark here. But should you not be using scan probes instead of recon probes to scan down deadspace mission runners and finding the gates, not the players ships?
I have meant to test this but every time I realise a player is in a mission I just move on instead of changing propbe launchers and doing some work on this.
I actually thought there was zero chance of scanning a ship down in a deadspace with recon probes?
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Lilan Kahn
Amarr
The Littlest Hobos
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Posted - 2007.03.08 12:59:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Jamius
I could be way off the mark here. But should you not be using scan probes instead of recon probes to scan down deadspace mission runners and finding the gates, not the players ships?
I have meant to test this but every time I realise a player is in a mission I just move on instead of changing propbe launchers and doing some work on this.
I actually thought there was zero chance of scanning a ship down in a deadspace with recon probes?
why?
snoops works 1 in 5 for me and scan alot faster abut 26 sec.
Originally by: Eris Discordia
We break after X amount of threads, then we go wild and then we get our medication.
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Ikvar
I WILL ROCK YOUR FACE
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Posted - 2007.03.08 13:01:00 -
[20]
I don't know what the problem people are having is. My cov ops alt char (max skilled in cov ops/probing related skills) in a Cheetah with two scan time rigs has NO problem finding people doing missions, in fact I usually get a hit on their ship rather than their drones after just a few scans. Just the other day I got 3 Ravens and 2 Drakes one after the other in the space of about an hour, all doing missions in gated deadspace, all of which I found using 10AU Fathom probes.
Originally by: Rekindle
I was in an empire system when they used their grief tactics to explode everything I own.
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Mr Jay
Pre-nerfed Tactics
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Posted - 2007.03.08 13:11:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Haitchi Allamut
I agree. The level of security for these people are insane. And if they have to move systems, many dock, fit a ****load of Stabs, and just change back at a station when they get to the target system. They might aswell be in highsec. Hence I approve of this message.
Originally by: Mr Jay
STOP WHINING ABOUT IT AND KILL THEM WHEN THEY ENTER/TRY TO LEAVE THE SYSTEM.
Jeez =\
Go away.
No.
Rather than whining on the forums about it like everyone does when something doesn't go their way, why don't you stop being a lazy so and so (I REALLY had to hold back there  ) and change the method?
LET ME PUT IT ANOTHER WAY WHERE YOU'LL UNDERSTAND, 'KAY?
You have a square hole in the floor. You have two pieces of wood - one that's in the shape of a circle, and one that's in the shape of a square.
You pick up the circle shaped piece of wood. You try and put it in the square shaped hole in the floor, but it doesn't work.
NOW, INSTEAD OF WHINING ABOUT IT AND SAYING "DADDY, PLEASE MAKE THIS MEAN MAN GO AWAY COS HE'S BEING NASTY AND I WANT TO GET MY OWN WAY", WHY DON'T YOU PICK UP THE SQUARE SHAPED WOODEN OBJECT AND SHOVE IT IN THE HOLE, 'KAY?
There are plenty of targets in low sec. PLENTY. Our kills, as well as a lot of other corps' kills, since the last patch and "warp to zero" are proof of this.
You must be doing something wrong.
But have a nice day, now
Absolute Evil pwned my sig =( |
Rigsta
Gallente
Raddick Explorations
NxT LeveL
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Posted - 2007.03.08 13:34:00 -
[22]
So mission runners are worth probing with the appropriate skills. Informative thread, thanks!
Originally by: Jim McGregor
I felt the disturbance... it was like a million voices suddenly stopped whining for a second. Unfortunantly it then continued.
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Lilan Kahn
Amarr
The Littlest Hobos
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Posted - 2007.03.08 13:36:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Rigsta
So mission runners are worth probing with the appropriate skills. Informative thread, thanks!
Duuh...
Originally by: Eris Discordia
We break after X amount of threads, then we go wild and then we get our medication.
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Jamius
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Posted - 2007.03.08 14:00:00 -
[24]
Hmm - looks like I just need to get my alts probing skills fully maxed out and be more patient then. I really never thought it was possible to get players in deadspace with recon probes but it is!! Good stuff!!
btw Lilan, this thread would have been 3 posts shorter and better off without your useless input. Just wanted to save you some time in future before you go to all the bother of typing. Can't be bothered going into it just wanted to let you know.
And my good corp mate Jay is right - stop whining!! Mind you I've learned something via this whine thread but it didn't need to be another whine post to get to the conclusion that probes are fine.
In fact I've been amazed at how good they are and how easy to use since learning to use them and probing people out in deadspaces should have an element of difficulty beyond drop probe-scan-find.
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Rigsta
Gallente
Raddick Explorations
NxT LeveL
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Posted - 2007.03.08 14:00:00 -
[25]
Edited by: Rigsta on 08/03/2007 13:57:18
Originally by: Lilan Kahn
Originally by: Rigsta
So mission runners are worth probing with the appropriate skills. Informative thread, thanks!
Duuh...
99% of what I've heard up to this point suggests it's just not worth bothering probing anyone in deadspace. Now I know otherwise.
And before you ask, no I don't have time to do maths about computer games.
Originally by: Jim McGregor
I felt the disturbance... it was like a million voices suddenly stopped whining for a second. Unfortunantly it then continued.
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Jayson Lee
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Posted - 2007.03.08 14:36:00 -
[26]
As a mission runner myself, i am curious to what the average pirate thinks the scan rate should be? With good skills, how often should you be able to scan someone down? I only ask to find out what you guys think a fair system would be?
If you make it too easy, then more pirates will start probing than already are. If you look at it from a mission runners stance, just how many missions must they run in order to pay for thier ship? Just for my hurricane it would take 10-15 missions just break even.
So what would be fair? I would love to see a change back to the old way, or if the current system stays, give mission runners a way to detect if they are being scanned and make it easier for pirates to scan us down.
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Shamis Orzoz
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2007.03.08 14:43:00 -
[27]
They took all the real life skill out of scanning. So now they have to make it a very low percentage thing or all carebears get ganked.
I really miss the days before scan probes. That's when you had to have a brain to find stuff...
Shamis
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Terranid Meester
Knights Hospitalier
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Posted - 2007.03.08 15:18:00 -
[28]
Edited by: Terranid Meester on 08/03/2007 15:15:17
I have heard twice now that exploration scan probes can be used to get to mission runners as long as you are in range of the mission runner. I found an exploration mission via scan probes recently in high sec while scanning for left over drones. Good thing I fitted a salvager to my exequror. I'll have to try exploration scan probs one day in high sec to test it all out.
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FooB2
Caldari
Northern Intelligence
Artificial Intelligence.
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Posted - 2007.03.08 15:23:00 -
[29]
->BRING BACK 2004<-
i yearn for the days when you could MWD bug a scorps shields and you had to click a button to switch between your hi/mid/lowslot mods. when battleships were worth something and people frequented lowsec like you wouldnt believe.
This is what we look like when you jump into our camp. |
Polly Math
Caldari
Omega Consulting
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Posted - 2007.03.08 15:43:00 -
[30]
i dont see why a mission runner would bother with lowsec if the chances of getting probed down are 100%. you can use a scout for gate camps, you can have guards in the belts, what could a missionrunner do to protect himself from beeing ganked while having a ton of npc aggro on him?
pirates got belts and gates for free buffet, should be enough imo.
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Jamius
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Posted - 2007.03.08 16:31:00 -
[31]
Originally by: Polly Math
i dont see why a mission runner would bother with lowsec if the chances of getting probed down are 100%. you can use a scout for gate camps, you can have guards in the belts, what could a missionrunner do to protect himself from beeing ganked while having a ton of npc aggro on him?
pirates got belts and gates for free buffet, should be enough imo.
Trying to run a mission and watch out for pirates at the same time is indeed difficult for most people. If it's a deadspace with a jump in gate then it's not so bad. Just keep a close eye on your scanner and stay away from the jump in point. Also, many deadspaces have clouds and other items that de-cloak ships when they jump in so that again makes it very easy to escape.
A pirate generally will not know what mission your running so in this respect the mission runner has an advantage they should be able to use to stay pretty safe.
Most pirates will be hoping to take advantage of the fact the mission runners think they are safe. Like most pirating, with a little care, you are very very hard to catch.
Just DO NOT expect the game to automatically protect you with no effort on your part to stay safe - that's what I fear many people want. NEVER I SAY 
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Neon Genesis
Gallente
The Landed Gentry
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Posted - 2007.03.08 16:51:00 -
[32]
Originally by: FooB2
->BRING BACK 2004<-
i yearn for the days when you could MWD bug a scorps shields and you had to click a button to switch between your hi/mid/lowslot mods. when battleships were worth something and people frequented lowsec like you wouldnt believe.
They used to bring their BS to the belts and I was happy 
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kill0rbunny
Chimera Intelligence Agency
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Posted - 2007.03.08 19:48:00 -
[33]
Originally by: Polly Math
i dont see why a mission runner would bother with lowsec if the chances of getting probed down are 100%. you can use a scout for gate camps, you can have guards in the belts, what could a missionrunner do to protect himself from beeing ganked while having a ton of npc aggro on him?
pirates got belts and gates for free buffet, should be enough imo.
Place a scout at the mission entrance gate cloaked and kill the scrambling frigs first.
Omg, that was a hard bit of brainwork, my head aches, i need to take a rest.
Probing mission runners is not that hard. No, Astrometrics Level 1 is not enough to do it.
End of Story
Killboard
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Polly Math
Caldari
Omega Consulting
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Posted - 2007.03.08 21:54:00 -
[34]
Originally by: kill0rbunny
Originally by: Polly Math
i dont see why a mission runner would bother with lowsec if the chances of getting probed down are 100%. you can use a scout for gate camps, you can have guards in the belts, what could a missionrunner do to protect himself from beeing ganked while having a ton of npc aggro on him?
pirates got belts and gates for free buffet, should be enough imo.
Place a scout at the mission entrance gate cloaked and kill the scrambling frigs first.
Omg, that was a hard bit of brainwork, my head aches, i need to take a rest.
Probing mission runners is not that hard. No, Astrometrics Level 1 is not enough to do it.
End of Story
erm, not only do you need an alt, you also need a 2nd computer/account?
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Christopher Dalran
Gallente
Deadly Alliance
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Posted - 2007.03.08 23:00:00 -
[35]
Mission runners are fighting the mission rats and because of the nature of the AI they WILL NOT SWITCH TARGETS.
Scanning down a mission runner is basically a 100% guaranteed free kill as he must tank the entire mission (when more than one ship enters most missions the game responds by causing all rats to agro the initial agressor, anyone that uses drones knows about this as drones are considered as another entity and trigger this response) while the attacked does not have to worry as NONE of the rats will aggress his until his target is dead (again because they dont switch targets).
If the AI is ever changed to cause rats to attack new arrivals then i will support scanning mission runners but untill the system is not stacked heavily against the mission runner giving him almoast 0 chance to escape i will have to continue to suppot CCP's latest action (even if it does mean less loot).
-------------------------------
C.D's Formula for success
-------------------------------
Credit Card = Game Time Card
Gametime Card = ISK
Therefore Credit Card = ISK.
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Captain Jaikken
Caldari
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Posted - 2007.03.09 00:20:00 -
[36]
Probing mission runners is a free no risk kill on an expensively fitted ship. It should NOT be easy.
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heheheh
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Posted - 2007.03.09 01:13:00 -
[37]
Quote:
The only steady income for low sec pirates are mission people
lol
seems not in your case,
seriously, try to fight someone that can fight back.
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Pax Althaleen
Amarr
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Posted - 2007.03.09 01:33:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Jayson Lee
I would love to see a change back to the old way, or if the current system stays, give mission runners a way to detect if they are being scanned and make it easier for pirates to scan us down.
To remain relatively safe while Missioning in Low Sec...
1) Upon entering System, get on the Missions as much as You can so You can set Your Safespots and Deep Safespots (DSS = Off the Eliptic) in and around that System. With Missions given to You by the same Agent in Satellite Systems, get on those as fast as possible too so that You can set SSs and DSSs in the satellite Systems around Your Main Low-sec area of Operations.
2) Run a PvP setup versus a PvE setup. This may be difficult to some degree but with some Innovative thinking you'll fill the holes in Your setup pretty quickly. It has been my experience so far that NPCs can fall even quicker to a PvP setup as opposed to a PvE setup.
Note: The thirteenth day of the Trial was the last time I fitted a PvE setup Myself.
3) Always have Your Ship Scanner out and take Scans AT LEAST every 2 Minutes if there are Baddies in System (Right-click show Info in Local). To do this effectively You need to know what Your enemy is using against You. These would be namely high-end skills in Astrometrics Triangulation and Pinpointing along with the ability to deploy Scan Probes. While You won't be deploying Probes while Mission running, what I'm more getting at is that You need to have similar skills to those that are hunting You to combat them. That said - If Your Skills are greater than those Hunting You, then even better. Know Your enemy if you Intend to counter them, and by having the same skills or better, You'll know how it is that they're able to scan You out. Knowing the Hunter's methods can only be advantageous to remaining safe in Low-sec if You get My meaning...
4) Have "Probes and Drones" plus "Ships" (AT THE LEAST) set as Your selection criteria in Your Ship's Scanner and when Scanning look at ALL the results. Additionally, have Your selections in the Scanner set to be listed by distance closest to You. Even though You will not likely see a distance marker on Your Hunters (If any), TQ will have to set them in the Scanned list based on the distance to You at any rate. This means that as they move around trying to Scan You down, You can relatively see it in Your Scanner as they'll move up and down in the List, signifying to You that they're either getting closer or farther away from You.
(EG. We were Missioning in a Low Sec system that We usually patrol, and We were into the Second Gate of three. I did a Scan (As Local had started to fill up) and the Scanner showed Me the Wrecks and Debris We'd left behind in the first Deadspace.
We went on to destroy our Targets in the Second Deadspace, and I did a second Scan less than five minutes later. It showed Us the following. The Wrecks and Debris We had Scanned earlier were still listed as being there behind Us but now there were 2 Player Ships mixed in with those results. This told Us one thing and one thing only - We HAD been Probed out and they WERE moving towards Us by travelling to the second gate. I put the word out on COMMs and We Warped out, effectively making that Deadspace disappear once We'd warped out of It to a DSS.)
Note: Warping to Station in Low-sec can get you camped in Station pretty fast, especially if the Hunters REALLY want to kill you. That said a Warp out to a SS(s) or a DSS(s) is likely the best bet to accomplishing the Mission as You won't get camped in Station and now the Hunters will have to scan You down again making the job for them tedious. Then cycle through those SSs and DSSs as this is the crux. Create enough tedium in Your Hunters and they'll eventually seek easier less aware prey, elsewhere.
5) Once You arrive in a Deadspace, treat the Warp-in beacon as if it is the plague. DO NOT go near it at all after that unless you have to get near to it to gather loot or wreckage for salvage. Even then, only do so with an eye on Your Scanner and another on Local every couple of minutes due to the fact that You need to be able to see those results as fast as possible to be able to get out in time if being Probed out.
I have some "other" methods that I also use to remain "relatively" safe while Missioning in Low-sec, but with that said, I shouldn't post them here for obvious reasons...
For the "other" Methods I use, EVEMail Me ingame and We can hook up in a Private chat where I can detail to to You more about it if You'd like.
Pax Althaleen
Holder - House Althaleen |
Linerra Tedora
Amarr
The Ninja Coalition
Phobos Alliance
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Posted - 2007.03.09 03:16:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Damien Smith
I used to love probing. I'd even go as far as calling it a profession. Now though it's something I do occasionally on an alt if I'm really pestered to do it. It's just not fun to drop a single probe and scan, scan, scan until you get a result. The old system rewarded skill and perseverence, not skillpoints. Time was your biggest enemy in the old system, not magical dice. Great plan though, screw the old school probers and turn probing into an alts job, the noobs need the entire system changing so they can do exploration without putting any skill into it whatsoever.
uhm where did you find that noobs get exploration easily? it actually requires lots of skills to just be able to do it, and also requires lots of knowledge and time if you want to find the more difficult exploration sites...
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Damien Smith
Turbulent
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Posted - 2007.03.09 05:03:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Linerra Tedora
uhm where did you find that noobs get exploration easily? it actually requires lots of skills to just be able to do it, and also requires lots of knowledge and time if you want to find the more difficult exploration sites...
Compared to the old system the new one IS easy. Do you have to drop 3 probes, all within range of the target and in a triangle aropund them to get a result? Do you have to do it with probes that don't scan in a sphere? Do you have to do it without that spiffy new system map? How about having to start off with the largest probe possible and have to scan 3 times to get results that may or may not be in a position to drop a probe on the good side of an off plane missioner without a warpable object to make the 3rd point of a triangle at? How about having probes with ridiculously small scan areas? 3au snoops had 1.5au horizontal range, 12au fathoms had 6au range, etc, and pathetic vertical range, meaning lots and lots of rescans and bookmark drops to get your result in vertical range of a target.
Skillpoints were meaningless back then apart from giving you access to the longer range probes. The player skill was all about probe placement and working out what YOU messed up with to not get a result. See that was the best thing about it; if you got no result, it was because YOU messed up, not that some magic dice said "sorry dude, no result today".
The new system is so simple a noob with a bought covert alt can do it. I still probe people out and so do some of my corpmates, but now it's just a formality to get through to get to the mission runner, not a challenging game of cat and mouse and a race against time. You're just playing the law of averages and you know that given enough scans, you will get a result.
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My sparkly tinfoil hat is extremely distracting, and makes my eyes bleed. -Conuion Meow ([email protected])
Join channel 'Turby' or die! (bring pie)
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Mr Jay
Pre-nerfed Tactics
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Posted - 2007.03.09 11:30:00 -
[41]
Originally by: heheheh
Quote:
The only steady income for low sec pirates are mission people
lol
seems not in your case,
seriously, try to fight someone that can fight back.
Mission runners can't fight back?  But how do they, if it's a kill mission, kill stuff? 
Absolute Evil pwned my sig =( |
FooB2
Caldari
Northern Intelligence
Artificial Intelligence.
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Posted - 2007.03.09 16:46:00 -
[42]
BY THE WILL OF THE MIIIIIIIIIND
*Snip* Funny sig but not really appropriate for the eve-o forums - hutch
Dont force me to make a Derek sig. - FooB |
Katarina Hetiako
Republic Military School
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Posted - 2007.03.09 17:05:00 -
[43]
 @ this thread...
got anything else you want to whine about... maybe spend less time whining and more time probing and you'll get lucky, huh?
Yup, I'm an alt... if only you could see my main... he's so strong and tough! |
Podruski
Reflex.
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Posted - 2007.03.11 01:12:00 -
[44]
Edited by: Podruski on 11/03/2007 01:09:06
Edited by: Podruski on 11/03/2007 01:08:32
The probability of getting them within the range of the probe, should be.. hmm, 100 f**king percent? They know the risk of jumping into low sec space, just like every other ship. It shouldn't be safe to them and nobody else. If were not going to fix the probe issue, then give me invulnerable safespots. Imagine a 5% chance of scanning me 1 AU from you with over 3 months of training in probes. Lets see how many people come *****ing. The fact is that this flaw only affects pirates. Nowhere else is there an issue with scanning.
Belt pirating as a profession isn't possible. The only thing in belts of low sec, is bait for 30 man fleet nextdoor (2006-07 PVP Tactic of the Year), or some noob npcing in his drake. Lets even up the professions.... Not to mention, if you follow the flow of money:
Flow of Money
Picture didnt work :\
Podruski
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FooB2
Caldari
Northern Intelligence
Artificial Intelligence.
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Posted - 2007.03.11 01:20:00 -
[45]
BRING ABCK 2004
4ewg\
*Snip* Funny sig but not really appropriate for the eve-o forums - hutch
Dont force me to make a Derek sig. - FooB |
Humpalot
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Posted - 2007.03.11 01:39:00 -
[46]
Originally by: Damien Smith
You're just playing the law of averages and you know that given enough scans, you will get a result.
Maybe I am missing something here and/or my math is shoddy. Admittedly I do not probe down ships but from what I have read in this thread I will go with the following (I'm sure I do not have to ask but feel free to point out where I am in error):
Max skills:
Snoop Probe = 26 second scan
Chance to get a "hit" with the probe: 3%
So, take three people and drop some snoops. 9% chance of getting a hit. Do it 6 times and you have a 54% chance of getting a hit (call it 50/50 for convenience). Total scan time is 2.6 minutes. Heck, call it 4 minutes after dealing with time for players to mash buttons.
So, in 4 minutes you have a better than one in two chance to nail a mission runner? And you are complaining about what? Probe prices maybe? You know full well if you nail a solo L4 missioner they will have T2 or better mods on and chances are excellent you will recoup your probe losses easily.
Maybe I am missing something but for my money probing out missioners is too easy.
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FooB2
Caldari
Northern Intelligence
Artificial Intelligence.
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Posted - 2007.03.11 01:41:00 -
[47]
Originally by: Humpalot
Originally by: Damien Smith
You're just playing the law of averages and you know that given enough scans, you will get a result.
Maybe I am missing something here and/or my math is shoddy. Admittedly I do not probe down ships but from what I have read in this thread I will go with the following (I'm sure I do not have to ask but feel free to point out where I am in error):
Max skills:
Snoop Probe = 26 second scan
Chance to get a "hit" with the probe: 3%
So, take three people and drop some snoops. 9% chance of getting a hit. Do it 6 times and you have a 54% chance of getting a hit (call it 50/50 for convenience). Total scan time is 2.6 minutes. Heck, call it 4 minutes after dealing with time for players to mash buttons.
So, in 4 minutes you have a better than one in two chance to nail a mission runner? And you are complaining about what? Probe prices maybe? You know full well if you nail a solo L4 missioner they will have T2 or better mods on and chances are excellent you will recoup your probe losses easily.
Maybe I am missing something but for my money probing out missioners is too easy.
AR RYOUF CUKING INSAEN>?
*Snip* Funny sig but not really appropriate for the eve-o forums - hutch
Dont force me to make a Derek sig. - FooB |
Podruski
Reflex.
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Posted - 2007.03.11 02:04:00 -
[48]
Originally by: Humpalot
Originally by: Damien Smith
You're just playing the law of averages and you know that given enough scans, you will get a result.
Maybe I am missing something here and/or my math is shoddy. Admittedly I do not probe down ships but from what I have read in this thread I will go with the following (I'm sure I do not have to ask but feel free to point out where I am in error):
Max skills:
Snoop Probe = 26 second scan
Chance to get a "hit" with the probe: 3%
So, take three people and drop some snoops. 9% chance of getting a hit. Do it 6 times and you have a 54% chance of getting a hit (call it 50/50 for convenience). Total scan time is 2.6 minutes. Heck, call it 4 minutes after dealing with time for players to mash buttons.
So, in 4 minutes you have a better than one in two chance to nail a mission runner? And you are complaining about what? Probe prices maybe? You know full well if you nail a solo L4 missioner they will have T2 or better mods on and chances are excellent you will recoup your probe losses easily.
Maybe I am missing something but for my money probing out missioners is too easy.
Ok... unless your just plain idiotic, im gonna point out the obvious. Your chance doesnt increase each time you scan. Say hypothetically that you actually get 3 coverts with max skills, and probes at the same spot...hahahahahahahh. You still have a 9% chance on each scan. So to answer your question, yes, your math is shoddy. And so is your post, find a brick wall and apply yourself to it.
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Goberth Ludwig
The Establishment
Establishment
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Posted - 2007.03.11 02:36:00 -
[49]
Whiner 
- Gob
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Jex Jast
Go for the booty
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Posted - 2007.03.11 03:17:00 -
[50]
Quote:
UN-nerf probes
I believe the proper terminology is "denerf".
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Termina
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Posted - 2007.03.11 03:52:00 -
[51]
It's a bit of a pain in the ass, but I have a cov-ops with two prob rigs and all scan related skills =< 4...
It usually takes me 20 mins on average to bust a mission. Sometimes I get them right away, sometimes not at all, but more often than not I get them. My advice, find a system with a lot of mission runners so you have a better chance of catching at least one of them.
As to the nerf, I'm personally happy with the current system. If it were any easier mission runners would never come to low sec. They all seem so surprised and that's the way I like it :) But if you're trying to scan with your average ship with average scan skills don't waste your time on mission runners.
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Xendie
Celestial Apocalypse
Insurgency
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Posted - 2007.03.11 04:38:00 -
[52]
Originally by: Podruski
Ok... unless your just plain idiotic, im gonna point out the obvious. Your chance doesnt increase each time you scan. Say hypothetically that you actually get 3 coverts with max skills, and probes at the same spot...hahahahahahahh. You still have a 9% chance on each scan. So to answer your question, yes, your math is shoddy. And so is your post, find a brick wall and apply yourself to it.
actually i think that someone did the math on it and came out with a 3% chance so you wont have 9% only that each of them will have a 3% chance at max skills.
damn silly by CCP to slaughter probing.
now its only going to be a alt proffession.
oh well, one more thing that ccp fubared this year and it has only started
Originally by: "darth solo"
bad men came, bad men didnt go home, bad men left containers.
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Humpalot
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Posted - 2007.03.11 05:21:00 -
[53]
Originally by: Podruski
Ok... unless your just plain idiotic, im gonna point out the obvious. Your chance doesnt increase each time you scan. Say hypothetically that you actually get 3 coverts with max skills, and probes at the same spot...hahahahahahahh. You still have a 9% chance on each scan. So to answer your question, yes, your math is shoddy. And so is your post, find a brick wall and apply yourself to it.
Thanks for he helpful slam. You are correct my math was bogus (as eventually you would get a 100% chance of success which cannot happen in this situation...even a million attempts could in theory produce no result).
So I bothered to look it up and here is the deal.
You need to turn the equation around. If there is a 3% chance of success there is a 97% chance of failure. Each attempt being independent from the others.
So, for each try you would multiply .97 against itself over and over like the following:
Three attempts = .97*.97*.97 = .9127
So for three attempts you have a 91.27% chance of failure and an 8.73% chance of success.
For ten attempts by one person (4.3 minutes of time max skilled with ship boniis) they'd have a 26.25% chance of success.
So, for one person spamming probed in 5 minutes (assuming max skills) they have a bit better than 1 in 4 chance of nailing the mission runner.
Sounds pretty good to me for the pirates and you want BETTER? Seriously...sounds perfectly awful for the missioners. One out of every four trips someone looks for me I get attacked? For L4 missioners that generally means a battleship with at least T2 fittings if not better. I guarantee low sec missions are nowhere near valuable enough to lose a ship every 4 trips out. Not even every 10 or 20 compared to what you get in hi sec.
And that is with just one person probing them out. Let's assume the "impossible" notion of a gang of three probers with max skills. If you do the math on ten tried each they'd net just shy of a 60% chance of a hit (59.899% to be exact). To nail juicy, T2/faction loaded mission ships I'd say that is a great set of odds for the pirates and well worthwhile money/timewise.
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Bellum Eternus
Gallente
CRICE Corporation
Lotka Volterra
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Posted - 2007.03.11 07:06:00 -
[54]
Originally by: Termina
It's a bit of a pain in the ass, but I have a cov-ops with two prob rigs and all scan related skills =< 4...
It usually takes me 20 mins on average to bust a mission. Sometimes I get them right away, sometimes not at all, but more often than not I get them. My advice, find a system with a lot of mission runners so you have a better chance of catching at least one of them.
As to the nerf, I'm personally happy with the current system. If it were any easier mission runners would never come to low sec. They all seem so surprised and that's the way I like it :) But if you're trying to scan with your average ship with average scan skills don't waste your time on mission runners.
Go to a system that actually has mission runners, and also is low sec, so you can actually shoot them. *Then* sit around and see how many actually undock and run missions. If there's 20 in local, one, *maybe* (and that's a big maybe) two people will be running a mission. Then on top of that, find out of the single mission runner is within 4 au of a celestial object. If not, go back and dock, because recon probes are useless.
If so, probe him out. Using regular scan probes works, but it's still not 100%. More like 40-50%. And then there's the range problem. Really poor. The concept of finding more than one mission runner within 4 au of each other, and yourself is next to impossible. At least when probing in a system where you can actually kill people (not in a .9 with 200+ mission morons).
Life Begins at -10!
FIX RECON PROBES |
Xendie
Celestial Apocalypse
Insurgency
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Posted - 2007.03.11 07:26:00 -
[55]
since the "real" chance of succes on each scan is 3% you dont get 9% chance by doing 3 scans as the scans do not "stack" so to speak.
each scan gives you a 3 % chance and then when you do the next you still only have 3% chance.
Originally by: "darth solo"
bad men came, bad men didnt go home, bad men left containers.
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Termina
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Posted - 2007.03.11 10:55:00 -
[56]
Edited by: Termina on 11/03/2007 10:54:00
I bust half my mission runners with 10 AU probes. It's far from impossible.
As for the math probability thing.... I believe you use a Binomial distribution to solve the actual % chance of busting a mission over a given number of yes/no trials. It's been about 6 years since I actually had to solve a Binomial distrubution, but I think given a 3% probabilty over 6 trials the chance of gettting at least 1 positive result is around 16.702...%
Why did I pick 6? Because quite often if you scan a mission you will be scanning for 6 objects in the deadspace pocket. 16.7 sounds a bit high to me, so I really think the chance of picking something out of a mission is probably in the 1-2% range per object in the mission. I think most of the numbers people throw out are just guesses. All I know is that I use both 10 and 5 au probes depending on the situtation and I can bust most missions in less than 20 minutes... which really isn't that bad considering how well some mission runners are fit.
Oh one other thing... I think people often forget you can run more than one probe at a time... hint hint.
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Damien Smith
Turbulent
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Posted - 2007.03.11 12:38:00 -
[57]
I don't know about everyone else, but the chance of finding someone is irrelevant to me. I don't care if I get a result on every scan, or it takes 50,000 tries. I really don't want CNR flying mission runners falling in my lap once a minute, because if I wanted free and easy isk I'd be running missions wouldn't I?
My problem is that regardless of how weighted the chance is in your favour, it's still chance based. Nothing I can physically do besides overlapping probes will give me any more chance of finding someone, and we had to do that x3 in the old system anyway.
I'd like a system where it takes me a massive time investment to find someone. A system whereby you learned through trial and error. I'd like it to be back to where only those who dedicated their time to learn could competently find people. A system whereby a skilled covert pilot was more of an asset to a pvp corp than the most 1337 of battleship pilots. That system is dead and coverts are now just alts that have been skillpoint grinded.
As far as I'm concerned, as far as fun gameplay probing is dead. It's now just a means to an end and is as boring as gatecamping. It's just something you do in order to get loot.
-----
My sparkly tinfoil hat is extremely distracting, and makes my eyes bleed. -Conuion Meow ([email protected])
Join channel 'Turby' or die! (bring pie)
Actually... no, it was teh sig. I'm wearing tinfoil goggles already. -Teh Meow |
Humpalot
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Posted - 2007.03.11 12:51:00 -
[58]
Edited by: Humpalot on 11/03/2007 12:51:11
Originally by: Xendie
since the "real" chance of succes on each scan is 3% you dont get 9% chance by doing 3 scans as the scans do not "stack" so to speak.
each scan gives you a 3 % chance and then when you do the next you still only have 3% chance.
Yes and no. As each "roll" of the CCP dice happens you have a 3% chance of success regradless of what happened on previous rolls. In probability these events are called independent.
However, you can calculate the probability that a given event will occur. Say you roll a 6 sided die and want to know your chances that a "1" will show up. Simple enough, on one roll there is a 1/6 (or .167 or 16.7%) chance that a "1" will show. Now, if I asked you to roll that die 10 times you would expect the chances that a "1" will show at least once over the course of those rolls to increase and it does (83.9% chance that at least one out of 10 die rolls will be a "1"). If it makes it easier consider a million die rolls. You can see you would have to be staggeringly unlucky to never have a "1" show.
Originally by: Termina
As for the math probability thing.... I believe you use a Binomial distribution to solve the actual % chance of busting a mission over a given number of yes/no trials.
I do not know about binomial distributions but I double checked my math with a math guru I know and the calculations I showed above is how you'd go about this particular problem. For all I know that is a binomial distribution but whatever.
Interesting notion that your scan roll has a chance to hit on multiple objects in the mission area. Certainly changes thinking on it.
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JonLuc McPew
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Posted - 2007.03.11 14:56:00 -
[59]
Edited by: JonLuc McPew on 11/03/2007 14:55:18
Quote:
Quote:un-nerf probes
You people seem to have VERY short memories.
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Manheart
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Posted - 2007.03.11 15:05:00 -
[60]
I love the new probes and as long as you have good skills you can bust deadspace amd misions runner fairly quick, just like me :) however I bet you have rubbish skills and need to do some more learn yet
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Podruski
Reflex.
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Posted - 2007.03.11 21:10:00 -
[61]
You have a 3% chance on every single scan. The next scan wont increase in chance after the last one, but the probility before that you might find something on either of the 2 scans increases from 3%, to whatever your binomial distribution finds. Basically, your 25% and 16% numbers are the possibility that in 10 scans you will find him. But the probability after each probe that you drop is still 3%! No matter how many times you have tried it. The previous scan is 100% irrelevant to the probability of the scan that you are doing at that time.
Not to mention, WHO EVER SAID THAT THEY CAN'T WARP? This will require them to have to check on their status, and have to actually pay attention.
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Gix Firebrand
Caldari
School of Applied Knowledge
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Posted - 2007.03.11 23:58:00 -
[62]
Err Poddie.. you are coming off sounding really lazy.
You basically got the same choices as everyone.
Adapt, whine, or quit. You have chosen the 2nd one.
Yay! :)
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Humpalot
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Posted - 2007.03.12 00:47:00 -
[63]
Edited by: Humpalot on 12/03/2007 00:43:42
Originally by: Podruski
You have a 3% chance on every single scan. The next scan wont increase in chance after the last one, but the probility before that you might find something on either of the 2 scans increases from 3%, to whatever your binomial distribution finds. Basically, your 25% and 16% numbers are the possibility that in 10 scans you will find him. But the probability after each probe that you drop is still 3%! No matter how many times you have tried it. The previous scan is 100% irrelevant to the probability of the scan that you are doing at that time.
Yes but you seem to like to fixate on that 3% chance as too low and that ignores the realities of probability. You are correct that each and every scan is an independent event and you will only get a 3% chance of success. But just like rolling a 6-sided die with enough rolls your chances of getting a "1" approach 100% (never quite gets there but so close as to make no odds...again imagine making a million die rolls and the chances of never rolling a "1"). That is despite each individual roll alwyas having a 16.7% chance of hitting the desired number.
So too with scanning in EVE. I don't care if you scan once per day or 100 times per day. The probability that you will get "lucky" in hitting that 3% increases the more times you try. So, in ten tries which takes you all of a whopping 5 minutes you can expect to get "lucky" on one in four rounds of ten tries. Not too bad. Even more you can increase your chances further by using multiple, overlapping probes and/or multiple people scanning. With not too much effort you can increase your overall chances of getting a hit to better than 50% in a reasonable timeframe.
Frankly after doing the math it seems probes need more of a nerf than an un-nerf.
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Elain Reverse
Caldari
Shokei
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Posted - 2007.03.12 04:21:00 -
[64]
Originally by: T'Renn
Sometimes you get lucky and scan down some mission runner, but CCP has nerfed it so bad that I don't really even bother that much unless we're really bored. They really need to fix that, and put all level 3 agents in lowsec - as if that's never been suggested before. Man up, bears.
Not Going to happend !!!
Noone is going to risk Faction fited Faction ship in losec just because someon want to kill them.
You have 3 choices or 4
1) go to 0.0 to get real PVP vs PVP fights
2) go fight to high sec but be aware of our friendly neighbor
3) keep kiling PVE ships in PVP ship in losec without whining
4) you can allways quit
I am realy getting sick of ppl whitch think they will allways get easy kills.
If you dont know, deadspace is created by "natural phenomena" whitch prevents you from warping in as you cant target to anything inside and same phenomena should prevent you from Scanning something inside.
If there is something what should get fixed its drones whitch dont have reduced sidnatures by deadspaces as they shoud.
Pirates have easy life already enough.
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Lilan Kahn
Amarr
The Littlest Hobos
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Posted - 2007.03.12 05:36:00 -
[65]
yes unnerf scane probes!?!
the more deadspace mods a ship has on it the harder it is is to find !
Originally by: Eris Discordia
We break after X amount of threads, then we go wild and then we get our medication.
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Podruski
Reflex.
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Posted - 2007.03.12 06:36:00 -
[66]
Originally by: Elain Reverse
Not Going to happend !!!
Noone is going to risk Faction fited Faction ship in losec just because someon want to kill them.
You have 3 choices or 4
1) go to 0.0 to get real PVP vs PVP fights
2) go fight to high sec but be aware of our friendly neighbor
3) keep kiling PVE ships in PVP ship in losec without whining
4) you can allways quit
I am realy getting sick of ppl whitch think they will allways get easy kills.
If you dont know, deadspace is created by "natural phenomena" whitch prevents you from warping in as you cant target to anything inside and same phenomena should prevent you from Scanning something inside.
If there is something what should get fixed its drones whitch dont have reduced sidnatures by deadspaces as they shoud.
Pirates have easy life already enough.
I have 3 or 4 responses for you:
1. 0.0 isn't pvp. I don't really call 40 v 1 remotely pvp. Hence, the reason I left..
2. Due to my sec status, high sec is somewhat.... difficult.
3. I dont know if your struggling to see my tone, but im not whining... I'm more or less demanding.
4. If you want help deleting your useless character, I will gladly show you. One less illiterate mission runner who thinks low sec is for fluffy bunnies and stab journeys.
I dont want to look up, but somebody called me lazy... good call. I'm incredibly lazy, infact I will pay 150% markup to save me 1 jump. Ironic though, seems that mission runner are to lazy to check their scanner every so often? It goes both ways.
P.S.... I dont care about you carebears. Flame my post if you wish, but until I see that its somewhat fair to the pirating side, I'm gonna do what I deem necessary for CCP to fix the bs. By the way, who said pirating is easy?
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Humpalot
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Posted - 2007.03.12 13:29:00 -
[67]
Edited by: Humpalot on 12/03/2007 13:31:39
EDIT: Accidentally hit the post button before writing anything.
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Humpalot
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Posted - 2007.03.12 13:35:00 -
[68]
Originally by: Podruski
P.S.... I dont care about you carebears. Flame my post if you wish, but until I see that its somewhat fair to the pirating side, I'm gonna do what I deem necessary for CCP to fix the bs. By the way, who said pirating is easy?
First off you should care about carebears. Even if that style of play is not your thing they are a part of the game and an integral part. Indeed most of your style of play is shooting those very people. It makes no sense to skew the game so far to your playstyle that you run off the very people you use for your fun (as it makes no sense for carebears to ask for 100% safe space). In the end it needs to be about overall game balance.
Secondly, the "bs" you are claiming in this thread doesn't seem to really exist yet you persist in thinking it does. I have shown, with simple math, that your chances are nowhere near as bad as you think and, in fact, look pretty poor for the mission runners. It's pretty straightforward and no matter how much you want to close your eyes to it 2+2 will always equal 4. However, even if you do not want to listen to a carebear crunching numbers you also have other pirates in this thread who do precisely what you do and claim perfectly acceptable "hit" rates and manage to nail missioners on a regular basis.
So really, where is the problem?
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Bellum Eternus
Gallente
CRICE Corporation
Lotka Volterra
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Posted - 2007.03.12 13:42:00 -
[69]
The chance to successfully probe out a mission runner using regular recon probes is next to zero. Generally speaking, if you can get close enough to use a 5AU recon probe, you can probably get close enough to use a 4AU racial probe. That means that if you have to resort to using a recon probe at all, you're using the 10 or 20AU probes due to range limitations.
These probes are literally useless for finding mission runners. I have yet to find a single mission runner using these probes, before they finish their sometimes hours long missions.
It's complete crap. A 3% (Less IMO) chance per scan to find a mission runner is simply too low. I'd like to see 7-10% per scan. It's perfectly acceptable IMO. I've been running missions myself, and have yet to be probed out. It's not that pirates have it too easy that mission runners die. It's that the mission runners are too stupid to take a few simple precautions and end up getting caught due to their own mistakes. I can't help it if pirates are just naturally smarter than all the carebears out there when it comes to common sense and PVP.
Life Begins at -10!
FIX RECON PROBES |
Exlegion
New Light
Schism.
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Posted - 2007.03.12 14:05:00 -
[70]
Originally by: Podruski
1. 0.0 isn't pvp. I don't really call 40 v 1 remotely pvp. Hence, the reason I left..
But fighting PVE-fitted ships with your PVP setup is PVP to you?
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Damien Smith
Turbulent
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Posted - 2007.03.12 14:18:00 -
[71]
I probe people with recon probes, and get pretty good results. I'd try the exploration probes but with my skills it takes 121 seconds a scan. In that amount of time I could have done 4 scans with a recon launcher.
I rarely use anything bigger than a 10au probe though, as it takes enough scan spamming with a 5au as it is, let alone a 20 or 40au.
-----
My sparkly tinfoil hat is extremely distracting, and makes my eyes bleed. -Conuion Meow ([email protected])
Join channel 'Turby' or die! (bring pie)
Actually... no, it was teh sig. I'm wearing tinfoil goggles already. -Teh Meow |
Humpalot
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Posted - 2007.03.12 14:31:00 -
[72]
Originally by: Bellum Eternus
These probes are literally useless for finding mission runners. I have yet to find a single mission runner using these probes, before they finish their sometimes hours long missions.
It's complete crap. A 3% (Less IMO) chance per scan to find a mission runner is simply too low. I'd like to see 7-10% per scan. It's perfectly acceptable IMO.
How easy to you expect it to be for you? You complain that carebears can't be arsed to do whatis necessary (extra work for them) to make themselves safer and here you are griping that things are not easy enough for you?
I just read the thread you linked to and people in there were likewise doing the math and showing how your chances increased well beyond a few percentage points. Further, numerous pirates who scan down missioners stopped by and related that they have excellent success...some even said knowing what they know about scanning missioners they themselves would never mission in low sec.
Numerous tools and scanning tactics were handed to you in that thread and used (not even that hard) make your chances quite good of finding a target. Given the rewards even one T2/faction fitted BS will net you just how easy do you want it to be? It is too easy as is if anything (as stated even by other pirates doing the hunting).
Seems to me if you got things your way you would utterly end all low sec missioning. Bad enough as it is but some will still try it. Even that would dry up if you more than tripled your chances as you are asking.
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Podruski
Reflex.
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Posted - 2007.03.13 01:07:00 -
[73]
Humpalot, you seem to lack basic intelligence. Let me help you out a little bit... With PERFECT skills:
Survey V (rank 1)
Astrometric Pinpointing 5 (rank 5)
Astrometric Triangulation 5 (rank 5)
Astrometrics 5 (rank 3)
Covert Ops 5 (rank 3)
With ok learning, I count 85 days ( almost 3 months ).
Thats 3 months of work to get a 3% chance. Are you joking me? Where the hell do you come up with the idea that its remotely fair? Not to mention, it really doesnt matter if missioners dont come to low sec, it isnt like they are killable anyway.
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Xendie
Celestial Apocalypse
Insurgency
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Posted - 2007.03.13 02:35:00 -
[74]
Originally by: Exlegion
Originally by: Podruski
1. 0.0 isn't pvp. I don't really call 40 v 1 remotely pvp. Hence, the reason I left..
But fighting PVE-fitted ships with your PVP setup is PVP to you?
it isnt his fault that you PVE guys whined so much because you were being PVP'd in a PVP Zone dressed in PVE gear.
now who's fault is it to not be ready for PVP in a PVP Zone ?
Originally by: "darth solo"
bad men came, bad men didnt go home, bad men left containers.
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kill0rbunny
Chimera Intelligence Agency
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Posted - 2007.03.13 09:06:00 -
[75]
Originally by: Polly Math
Originally by: kill0rbunny
Originally by: Polly Math
i dont see why a mission runner would bother with lowsec if the chances of getting probed down are 100%. you can use a scout for gate camps, you can have guards in the belts, what could a missionrunner do to protect himself from beeing ganked while having a ton of npc aggro on him?
pirates got belts and gates for free buffet, should be enough imo.
Place a scout at the mission entrance gate cloaked and kill the scrambling frigs first.
Omg, that was a hard bit of brainwork, my head aches, i need to take a rest.
Probing mission runners is not that hard. No, Astrometrics Level 1 is not enough to do it.
End of Story
erm, not only do you need an alt, you also need a 2nd computer/account?
You just need a good corp for gods sake.
Those are corp missions, use your corpmates.
Killboard
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Exlegion
New Light
Schism.
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Posted - 2007.03.13 12:08:00 -
[76]
Originally by: Xendie
Originally by: Exlegion
Originally by: Podruski
1. 0.0 isn't pvp. I don't really call 40 v 1 remotely pvp. Hence, the reason I left..
But fighting PVE-fitted ships with your PVP setup is PVP to you?
it isnt his fault that you PVE guys whined so much because you were being PVP'd in a PVP Zone dressed in PVE gear.
now who's fault is it to not be ready for PVP in a PVP Zone ?
1) I'm not whining. Hint: See OP.
2) I'm asking Podruski if he considers shooting PVE-fitted targets PVP. I'm curious about his response considering that a blob to him is unfair and is not PVP.
3) I ask you with all kindness and sincerity to please run a level 4 mission in PVP gear (include a warp scrambler on the mid, and any other module you'd use on a player). See how well you fair out against NPC's and please do share your results (if you actually decide to do it).
4) Your response still doesn't answer the question. I'd even be willing to bet that a member of a blob would have a similar response to yours: "It's not my fault you decided to show up with 3 players..."
Disclaimer: I don't feel one way or the other about blobs. I'm honestly trying to understand why you'd consider one disadvantage unfair and the other perfectly OK. Reminds me of the saying: "I'm rock. Sizzors is OK. Nerf Paper!"
Exlegion
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Xendie
Celestial Apocalypse
Insurgency
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Posted - 2007.03.13 12:35:00 -
[77]
Originally by: Exlegion
Reminds me of the saying: "I'm rock. Sizzors is OK. Nerf Paper!"
Exlegion
wich is exactly what all PVE players were whining about when probes actually worked as they should in lowsec.
when they werent almost unprobable in lowsec they cried and whined in 10 threads per day about exploits and whatnot to their ebay bought ships and whatever.
fact remains that probing is not working as it should as the level of immunity for mission runners is off the scale atm.
and doing agent missions in a lowsec zone wich is a high risk pvp area should be "high risk" and not almost "no risk".
the game is being carebearized and it is not a good thing.
as for myself being a part of blobs im assuming that everyone by now knows you are full of bull****
almost all my eve time ive been in the minority group on the battlefield.
ive been a pirate, ive been a anti-pirate and guess what i was pretty good at both.
what i dont like is CCP running around playing Darwin on behalf of the mentally challenged players that cannot or will not learn how to avoid being blown up or dont want to learn how to shoot back.
if you cannot conquer Darwin you will die in lowsec and cry and whine to a brick wall and when you figure out what makes Darwin tick you will smile and shoot back and survive with ease, to bad that CCP has forgotten what made eve a good game.
Originally by: "darth solo"
bad men came, bad men didnt go home, bad men left containers.
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Exlegion
New Light
Schism.
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Posted - 2007.03.13 13:37:00 -
[78]
Originally by: Xendie
wich is exactly what all PVE players were whining about when probes actually worked as they should in lowsec.
when they werent almost unprobable in lowsec they cried and whined in 10 threads per day about exploits and whatnot to their ebay bought ships and whatever.
What do you suppose would happen if missions were probed as easily as you propose in low-sec? By the way, that's quite the assumption there about the "ebay bought ships".
Quote:
fact remains that probing is not working as it should as the level of immunity for mission runners is off the scale atm.
and doing agent missions in a lowsec zone wich is a high risk pvp area should be "high risk" and not almost "no risk".
That "fact" you say "remains" is being discredited in this very same thread by your fellow pirates.
Quote:
the game is being carebearized and it is not a good thing.
Level 4 missions are being moved to low sec, leaving high sec with just level 3's and below. Many players would argue the opposite of just that.
Quote:
as for myself being a part of blobs im assuming that everyone by now knows you are full of bull****
almost all my eve time ive been in the minority group on the battlefield.
ive been a pirate, ive been a anti-pirate and guess what i was pretty good at both.
Where did I say you are a part of blobs (or anyone else for that matter)?
Quote:
what i dont like is CCP running around playing Darwin on behalf of the mentally challenged players that cannot or will not learn how to avoid being blown up or dont want to learn how to shoot back.
Is that what you call people that disagree with your "facts" or that don't share your same interests?
Quote:
if you cannot conquer Darwin you will die in lowsec and cry and whine to a brick wall and when you figure out what makes Darwin tick you will smile and shoot back and survive with ease, to bad that CCP has forgotten what made eve a good game.
Lay off the Darwin talk, seriously  . IIRC from Philosophy class, humans as a species have stopped evolving. So no need for the context, especially on a video game. 
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Damien Smith
Turbulent
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Posted - 2007.03.13 13:47:00 -
[79]
The funny thing is, I probe about the same number of people now as I did in the pre-revelations system. The only difference is that now I do it by dropping a probe and mindlessly spamming the scan button, whereas before I had to actually think to find someone.
It's not harder now, it's ridiculously easy. It's just that now you have a mindless grind instead of a fun challenge.
yay...
-----
My sparkly tinfoil hat is extremely distracting, and makes my eyes bleed. -Conuion Meow ([email protected])
Join channel 'Turby' or die! (bring pie)
Actually... no, it was teh sig. I'm wearing tinfoil goggles already. -Teh Meow |
Humpalot
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Posted - 2007.03.13 14:22:00 -
[80]
Originally by: Podruski
Humpalot, you seem to lack basic intelligence. Let me help you out a little bit... With PERFECT skills:
Survey V (rank 1)
Astrometric Pinpointing 5 (rank 5)
Astrometric Triangulation 5 (rank 5)
Astrometrics 5 (rank 3)
Covert Ops 5 (rank 3)
With ok learning, I count 85 days ( almost 3 months ).
Thats 3 months of work to get a 3% chance. Are you joking me? Where the hell do you come up with the idea that its remotely fair? Not to mention, it really doesnt matter if missioners dont come to low sec, it isnt like they are killable anyway.
Funny who is accusing who of a lack of intelligence. Do you actually read or just swing by to flame?
First off your 85 days for "max" skills to get a 3% chance is WAY off base. The ONLY skill that affects your chances at a hit is Astrometric Triangulation. For your 3% chance that is all you need at L5 and left at L4 you would be just shy of your 3%...hardly a killer difference and WAY less on training. The others only affect scan time or scan deviation or the number of different items you can scan for at the same time (and by all accounts scan deviation is borked on mission runners as even with a HUGE scan deviation warping to them drops you at the acceleration gate).
Where do I come up with that this is fair? Well...we are talking maybe a week or two worth of training and not 85 days to get almost your 3% chance. As you have totally ignored your "3% chance" is, in reality, MUCH better and with not too much work (spam the scan button mostly) you can push your chances to 1-in-4 for all of 5 minutes of work. Further, each missioner you nail will likely be in a T2 (or better) fitted battleship that will probably net you 50 million in mods no problem. The odds show you could reasonably expect to nail two an hour. For 100 million per hour just how freaking easy SHOULD things be?
Finally, you keep going on and on about how it is near impossible to scan down a mission runner. Apparently you do not like math but then why are you ignoring the numerous other posters who ARE pirates and who DO scan down missioners that say they do so with ease and nail them left and right? Re-read this thread, read other threads on the same issue...it is not just one guy but many people saying the same thing. They kill missioners all the time. Are you just staggeringly unlucky or maybe not willing to deal with anything more than one push of a scan button that makes you wait a minute?
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Xendie
Celestial Apocalypse
Insurgency
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Posted - 2007.03.13 14:53:00 -
[81]
Originally by: Exlegion
Lay off the Darwin talk, seriously . IIRC from Philosophy class, humans as a species have stopped evolving. So no need for the context, especially on a video game.
i see that you have anyway. 
Originally by: "darth solo"
bad men came, bad men didnt go home, bad men left containers.
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Exlegion
New Light
Schism.
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Posted - 2007.03.13 15:07:00 -
[82]
Originally by: Xendie
Originally by: Exlegion
Lay off the Darwin talk, seriously . IIRC from Philosophy class, humans as a species have stopped evolving. So no need for the context, especially on a video game.
i see that you have anyway.
For some reason your response reminded me of this Family Guy clip .
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Xendie
Celestial Apocalypse
Insurgency
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Posted - 2007.03.13 18:57:00 -
[83]
Edited by: Xendie on 13/03/2007 18:53:55
Originally by: Exlegion
Edited by: Exlegion on 13/03/2007 15:24:48
Edited by: Exlegion on 13/03/2007 15:06:22
Originally by: Xendie
Originally by: Exlegion
Lay off the Darwin talk, seriously . IIRC from Philosophy class, humans as a species have stopped evolving. So no need for the context, especially on a video game.
i see that you have anyway.
You're so clever.
indeed you are very intelligent today.
Originally by: "darth solo"
bad men came, bad men didnt go home, bad men left containers.
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Podruski
Reflex.
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Posted - 2007.03.13 23:06:00 -
[84]
Humpalot, your clueless.. Face it, scanning is well in favor of mission runners. There needs to be something done to change this.
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Humpalot
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Posted - 2007.03.13 23:25:00 -
[85]
Originally by: Podruski
Humpalot, your clueless.. Face it, scanning is well in favor of mission runners. There needs to be something done to change this.
I guess you do just swing by to flame but hey man...don't let silly things like facts get in the way of your ill-formed opinions.
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Podruski
Reflex.
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Posted - 2007.03.14 04:25:00 -
[86]
Its sad that you actually think that your pathetic opinion holds water. From the beginning, your trying to explain that probing people is far to simple, and that it isnt fair to your kind. We have proven that even with 3 months of skill training, you still have a **** poor opportunity to even get a hit. If you think a 3% chance is a good chance at getting a person, your head is ****** up. Imagine there being a 3% chance that you could complete your mission with maxed raven skills. Perfect analogy. What would you say to that? Is that 3% of completion still "too easy"? So before you go furthering your useless profession, stop and think that it isn't even close to being fair. I have heard enough of your stupid hypocritical comments in this post. Your points all end with the underlying concept that mission runners should be invulnerable. Now go find another topic to *****, or post with your main so I know who to wardec.
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LordVodka
Earned In Blood
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Posted - 2007.03.14 04:46:00 -
[87]
So I'm totally with pod here... If your not withen 10 au you may as well not even try, and under 5 au hold your breath. Specially if your dealing with the highly intelligent carebears who pull there drones LOL, intelligent. furthermore they need to move all lvl 4's into low sec, why the hell should there be BS spawns in empire... not untill factional warfare at least. One last thing REMOVE TEH GOD DAM BEACONS, even if you do scan the guys the beacon unclaoks you and they all haul ass. FIX IT, and no we won't adapt... carebears get to cry about all these issues so they dont lose a precious ship. Alls we want is a freaking BS kill once in a while.
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LordVodka
Earned In Blood
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Posted - 2007.03.14 04:52:00 -
[88]
Something else just came to my attention, WHY CNA YOU WARP OUT OF DEADSPACE!!!! you can't use a MWD or warp in cause thats the point of hte dam things, but if your leaving all of a sudden you can just warp. So theres another fix, you should have to use the accelerater gates to leave, AND NO I'M NOT KIDDING.
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Humpalot
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Posted - 2007.03.14 05:57:00 -
[89]
Originally by: Podruski
Its sad that you actually think that your pathetic opinion holds water.
Opinion? Do the freaking math! It is not opinion unless you think 2+2=4 is an opinion.
Quote:
From the beginning, your trying to explain that probing people is far to simple, and that it isnt fair to your kind. We have proven that even with 3 months of skill training, you still have a **** poor opportunity to even get a hit.
Do you actually READ these posts? Tell me again how you have proven it takes 3 months of skill training to get a hit cuz I missed it. Really...point it out. Because there is only ONE skill that affects your chances. Everything else related affects other things (like time to scan).
Quote:
If you think a 3% chance is a good chance at getting a person, your head is ****** up. Imagine there being a 3% chance that you could complete your mission with maxed raven skills. Perfect analogy. What would you say to that? Is that 3% of completion still "too easy"? So before you go furthering your useless profession, stop and think that it isn't even close to being fair.
I have shown that your overall chances are much better than 3% over time (and not even that much time). That pesky math thing again. Others, who do the same thing you do, have chimed in that they probe out missioners all the time.
Quote:
I have heard enough of your stupid hypocritical comments in this post. Your points all end with the underlying concept that mission runners should be invulnerable. Now go find another topic to *****, or post with your main so I know who to wardec.
Hypocritical? Look that up. And I also said in an earlier post that I do not think missioners should be 100% safe. You fail to see the point that if you had your way NO ONE would dare risk a ship worth hundreds of millions of uninsured mods. You would empty low sec more than it already is.
Pirates moan and gripe about carebears who moan and gripe and yet here you are being every bit as bad. "The game isn't easy mode for me! Fix it!"
Go cry a river elsewhere. You have contributed nothing to this thread beyond whining.
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LordVodka
Earned In Blood
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Posted - 2007.03.14 07:28:00 -
[90]
Well ms hump alot I think i made some valid points so get back to doing what you do best....... |
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dreem
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Posted - 2007.03.14 07:49:00 -
[91]
You have a better chance of probing the missionrunner by using 3x 20au probes rather than 1x 5au.
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LordVodka
Earned In Blood
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Posted - 2007.03.14 07:57:00 -
[92]
news flash you cna only launch 1 probe in the same area and if you have 3 prober accounts your a noob in a alliance and have no place pirating. |
Shikay
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Posted - 2007.03.14 08:25:00 -
[93]
Edited by: Shikay on 14/03/2007 08:26:14
Edited by: Shikay on 14/03/2007 08:22:40
Probing works
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dreem
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Posted - 2007.03.14 08:29:00 -
[94]
You are the noob.
Drop one probe, then fly 10.5 au away from that location and drop the otherone.
Then drop the 3rd one so its more than 10au away from the others.
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dreem
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Posted - 2007.03.14 08:46:00 -
[95]
Also, you have a better chance by waiting for them to warp back into the mission..so you time your scanning so you get his location before he activates the first gate.
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LordVodka
Earned In Blood
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Posted - 2007.03.14 09:03:00 -
[96]
Dude you cannot drop probes that over lap...
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dreem
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Posted - 2007.03.14 09:50:00 -
[97]
You better start playing the game and findout for yourself.
You cannot have another probe inside another probes sphere, but you can have it just outside the sphere so it scans inside the other.
I do this everyday, i know it works.
Stop saying its not possible when you dont have the facts.
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Prophet Jurah
Amarr
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Posted - 2007.03.14 10:44:00 -
[98]
Originally by: Podruski
Edited by: Podruski on 11/03/2007 01:09:06
Edited by: Podruski on 11/03/2007 01:08:32
The probability of getting them within the range of the probe, should be.. hmm, 100 f**king percent? They know the risk of jumping into low sec space, just like every other ship. It shouldn't be safe to them and nobody else. If were not going to fix the probe issue, then give me invulnerable safespots. Imagine a 5% chance of scanning me 1 AU from you with over 3 months of training in probes. Lets see how many people come *****ing. The fact is that this flaw only affects pirates. Nowhere else is there an issue with scanning.
Belt pirating as a profession isn't possible. The only thing in belts of low sec, is bait for 30 man fleet nextdoor (2006-07 PVP Tactic of the Year), or some noob npcing in his drake. Lets even up the professions.... Not to mention, if you follow the flow of money:
Flow of Money
Picture didnt work :\
Podruski
Why do you think belt pirating isn't quite viable? Could it be because nothing lasts 5 minutes in belts when it's so easy to find them? Just be glad theres enough reward to risk ratio that people even still do missions in low sec. If it wasn't for them the only people there would be other pirates.
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HighwayMan DhD
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Posted - 2007.03.14 11:33:00 -
[99]
Originally by: LordVodka
Dude you cannot drop probes that over lap...
dude. You can.
Draw a circle. The probe is in the middle. a new probe dropped by yourself can cover some of the same area as long as it does not touch the first probe itself.
I.E Drop a 10.AU probe, warp 11AU in any direction and you can drop another, and thus overlap the probes.
Hold Shift to select more than one probe in the window to scan using both and thereby increasing your scan strength.
sorted
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Stakhanov
Shih Yang Tong
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Posted - 2007.03.14 11:52:00 -
[100]
If you had read about the probing sticky , you'd know that multiples probes don't give much better chances that just one (possibly counterproductive if you use probes of different types)
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Gix Firebrand
Caldari
Beets and Gravy Syndicate
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Posted - 2007.03.14 16:43:00 -
[101]
This thead is priceless.
Philosophy class? LOL.
Not being able to warp out of deadspace? LOL.
Will the whining never cease?
Where have all the pirates gone?
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LordVodka
Earned In Blood
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Posted - 2007.03.14 19:16:00 -
[102]
Originally by: dreem
You have a better chance of probing the missionrunner by using 3x 20au probes rather than 1x 5au.
K you may of got me on bubble overlapping... BUT your still retarded with 3 20 AU's you have 25% less chance of getting a hit then with 1 5AU, yes thats 20 strenth compared to 3X 5 which makes 15... |
LordVodka
Earned In Blood
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Posted - 2007.03.14 19:18:00 -
[103]
Edited by: LordVodka on 14/03/2007 19:15:00
And btw he said go to 10.5 au using a 20 au probe so, I win again, try reading the context of my responses before you start adding posts about it...
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Matthew
Caldari
BloodStar Technologies
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Posted - 2007.03.15 13:25:00 -
[104]
Originally by: Xendie
it isnt his fault that you PVE guys whined so much because you were being PVP'd in a PVP Zone dressed in PVE gear.
now who's fault is it to not be ready for PVP in a PVP Zone ?
Take a look back at what actually happened before the nerfed mission-scanning.
The "pirates" were often not fighting the mission runner directly at all. They were simply warping into the mission, setting off entire-room aggro, then warping out and waiting for the mission runner to die due to the excess aggro. That's not PvP, it's just lame use of the limited NPC intelligence. Even if the pirate stuck around and shot the missioner himself, it's still not PvP, it's PvP&E because the missioner still has the whole group of NPC's on him as well as the pirate. This would still be the case regardless of whatever setup the missioner had fitted.
Even if the mission runner is in a PvP fitting equally as good as yours, and has the same level of PvP skill as you, the presence of the NPC spawn, who will only be shooting at them, not you, will always mean that you will defeat them.
Protecting the mission runners isn't about stopping the clueless ones from dying, it's about balancing the fact that even an experienced and properly-fitted player will be at a PvP disadvantage while engaged in PvE.
Bear in mind that the mission deadspace area has been designed as a PvE area, even if it exists within what is nominally a PvP system. Missions are designed for you to have to manage aggro to complete them, and they are balanced on the assumption that the NPC's are the only thing doing damage to you. The missioner isn't unready for PvP because he can't be bothered, he's unready because the PvE system fundamentally prevents him from engaging in a PvP fight on fair terms while he is engaged in PvE.
Now, the ideal long-term solution would be to change the PvE system so that it behaves sensibly in the presence of hostile, as well as friendly players. However, that would require a significant re-think and re-code of the PvE system, down to a fairly fundamental level. Until that happens, making it harder to engage a player in PvP while they are PvE'ing is a reasonable balance against it being easier to defeat that player once they have been engaged. Otherwise PvE will simply not be viable where PvP is likely to occur.
And remember, the pirate may get his income from a player, but every item in the game can be traced back to things that came from PvE activities (rat loot/bounties, mining, agent rewards etc). Pirates are just as reliant on a viable PvE system as the PvE players themselves are.
Besides, it may be hard to find a target in a mission. But it's even harder to find a target if they won't come to the system at all. And if the PvE system in low-sec does not give the PvE'er a reasonable chance, then they simply won't come.
Originally by: LordVodka
Something else just came to my attention, WHY CNA YOU WARP OUT OF DEADSPACE!!!! you can't use a MWD or warp in cause thats the point of hte dam things, but if your leaving all of a sudden you can just warp.
Deadspace disrupts the exiting from a warp field, not the ability to form one. Hence, when you try and warp into a deadspace, the disruption would mean that you'd end up somewhere random around the deadspace - hence why your helpful nav computer redirects you to the deadspace entrance beacon instead. You can warp out because by the time you get to your exit position, you are out of the deadspace and able to control your exit properly. The MWD is affected because the exit point is always just in front of where your ship currently is, hence is always within the deadspace area (and thus disrupted) as long as your ship is in the deadspace area.
-------
There is no magic Wand of Fixing, and it is not powered by forum whines. |
dreem
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Posted - 2007.03.15 19:33:00 -
[105]
LordVodka: have u even probed in eve?
Or do you just sit on forums?
I give advice on howto use probes and you still go on *****ing.
From my own experience i get better chance on using 3x 20au's than 1x 5au.
Try it yourself.
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Elena Illare
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Posted - 2007.03.15 22:24:00 -
[106]
I have to agree that making mission probing too effective will simply kill itself off. A lvl4 mission takes at least 30-45 minutes to run. For many 'carebears' it can take 1-4 hours to run. In the systems I hang out in, known exploration probers come by literally every 10-20 minutes. If not one, then another. And when that next one moves on, the first one finishes his loop and comes back again. This isn't a problem for me as I don't run missions here, but I do sell stuff on the market and I can very easily see the decline of the missioner month after month as probing becomes more prevalent. My sales in low-sec keeps going down and my sales in high sec keep going up.
A missioner isn't going to win w/stage aggro + a full gang of command ships, faction BS etc on him. His only chance is to detect the scan attempt or enemies before they can tackle him and warp out. Preferrably before they detect his deadspace, otherwise they can find his deadspace and then camp the mission. Or worse, steal the needed mission completion item.
Bottom line is, it can be very easy for a missioner to not be able to complete a mission in 6+ hours because every 15 minutes they have to temporarily abort their mission as the explore probes come out. So what will these missioners do? Go to high sec. After all, why run missions at all if one mission can barely be completed, even if lost ships are avoided? Why risk losing a ship if it'll take 15 missions to earn it back, when you can barely complete one?
I'm not against piracy or pvp. I think it's great. But I don't understand the types who overhunt the herd. If you kill all the buffalo in the herd, you wipe them out and they're gone. They're not there to hunt anymore, they've moved to high sec or given up playing or become pirates themselves. If you want to have targets, then they need to be able to be successful overall, even if they do die sometimes. It's a simple fact.
If pirates want more targets, then they should be encouraging creation/balance of ways that their potential targets can be prosperous enough that they stay out there despite losses to pirates. Too far in either direction is not sustainable.
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Podruski
Reflex.
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Posted - 2007.03.16 05:02:00 -
[107]
One person who doesnt respond like an *******...
Well, i see your point, and I agree to an extent. If we make probes excessively good, then people wont run missions at all. What I am saying is that at the current time, the process is so bad that it isnt worth trying for most priates. Its more like mining than pvp, and thats the reason why I don't carebear. nothing else in eve matches the rush of a good fight. If the probability per scan was increased to say, 7-10%, I would be much happier. (7 with ok skills, 10 with perfect)
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Gix Firebrand
Caldari
Beets and Gravy Syndicate
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Posted - 2007.03.16 17:23:00 -
[108]
Originally by: Podruski
One person who doesnt respond like an *******...
Well, i see your point, and I agree to an extent. If we make probes excessively good, then people wont run missions at all. What I am saying is that at the current time, the process is so bad that it isnt worth trying for most priates. Its more like mining than pvp, and thats the reason why I don't carebear. nothing else in eve matches the rush of a good fight. If the probability per scan was increased to say, 7-10%, I would be much happier. (7 with ok skills, 10 with perfect)
No, just someone who is nicer than most :D
Most of us see you as lazy and just wanting free ISK.
I like how you say nothing in EVE matches the rush of a good fight, yet you want to catch someone unawares in a mission and kill them :D
Not that I'm saying it isn't a good fight.. for the pirate :D Now yes, catching someone in a mission is fun. Except when you are 23km away and can't MWD to him.. but still fun :)
So again you got 3 choices. Adapt, whine or quit really. All it comes down to.
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Kelsenn
Amarr
Earned In Blood
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Posted - 2007.03.16 22:47:00 -
[109]
Originally by: Gix Firebrand
I like how you say nothing in EVE matches the rush of a good fight, yet you want to catch someone unawares in a mission and kill them :D
Not that I'm saying it isn't a good fight.. for the pirate :D Now yes, catching someone in a mission is fun. Except when you are 23km away and can't MWD to him.. but still fun :)
So again you got 3 choices. Adapt, whine or quit really. All it comes down to.
I run missions in low sec when I'm really bored in a 100% PvP fit ship. Have fun!
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Podruski
Reflex.
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Posted - 2007.03.17 03:47:00 -
[110]
Adapt, Whine, Quit
-Gix Firebrand
I have chosen to whine.... can't you tell?
And uhh... if npcing and running missions isnt free money, then how the hell is killing a nicely tanked ship free money?
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