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Amarr Lasers (New Damage type)

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Maeltstome	Posted - 2007.03.09 04:40:00 - [61] They wouldn't really add alot to the game IMO. The last thing we need is more T2 items that cost too much, 50% of T2 atm is never used due it not being worth it. Range modifying ammo is the only widely used T2 ammo (scorch, barrage, spike etc.), beyond that, most people will always use Antimatter over Void, and Multifreq over conflag. My 2 cents anyway.
Zoppo Trump Amarr Really Nice And Laidback Corporation	Posted - 2007.03.09 08:53:00 - [62] Leave the lasers alone. As said above, the more damagetypes discussion for lasers went on for years now, if it hasnt changed yet it never will. We dont need a laser upgrade, it would break too many other stuff indeed, we just need two new Amarr ships. Amarr already owns one droneplatform, the Arbitrator and its tech2 variants. Its very atypical for Amarr but widly used and quite popular, look at the Pilgrim-variant for example. So i say give Amarr one missileboat (maybe a Khanid) and one with a turret bonus and we are fine. Notice i said turret bonus not laser, a bonus viable to all turret weapons, lasers, projectile or blaster alike. In this way Amarr pilots may choose damage types by chosing the right ships to do so like flying an Arbitrator right now. And if you make those new ships desirable (like the Pilgrim) but hard to get skillwise (like almost all tech2 variants) there isnt much reason to whine for other races, i cant hear much whine bout the Pilgrim these days at least.
Nifel Caldari Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.03.09 09:43:00 - [63] I agree! Lasers should get a new damage type called Whine! "When I die I want to die peacefully in my sleep like my grandpa. Not yelling and screaming like the passengers in his car." RKK Ranking: Sama
J'Mkarr Soban Amarr Viziam	Posted - 2007.03.09 10:42:00 - [64] Originally by: Zoppo Trump Leave the lasers alone. As said above, the more damagetypes discussion for lasers went on for years now, if it hasnt changed yet it never will. We dont need a laser upgrade, it would break too many other stuff indeed, we just need two new Amarr ships. Amarr already owns one droneplatform, the Arbitrator and its tech2 variants. Its very atypical for Amarr but widly used and quite popular, look at the Pilgrim-variant for example. So i say give Amarr one missileboat (maybe a Khanid) and one with a turret bonus and we are fine. Notice i said turret bonus not laser, a bonus viable to all turret weapons, lasers, projectile or blaster alike. In this way Amarr pilots may choose damage types by chosing the right ships to do so like flying an Arbitrator right now. And if you make those new ships desirable (like the Pilgrim) but hard to get skillwise (like almost all tech2 variants) there isnt much reason to whine for other races, i cant hear much whine bout the Pilgrim these days at least. How would you justify this in game? -J --------------------------------- "He who 'hah hahs' last, 'hah hahs' best." - Nelson Balanced != Nerfed
Zoppo Trump Amarr Really Nice And Laidback Corporation	Posted - 2007.03.09 12:13:00 - [65] Originally by: J'Mkarr Soban How would you justify this in game? Well, a missile boat could be justified as being khanid and half-caldari this way. A general turret bonus? No idea. How do you justify the Arbitrator/Pilgrim?
Dr Shameless Skull Soft The Sundering	Posted - 2007.03.09 14:48:00 - [66] maybe not change the laser weapons radically but add new type of crystal that changes energy into sound - making it effectively a sonic gun: deals pure kinetic
Humpalot	Posted - 2007.03.09 15:21:00 - [67] Edited by: Humpalot on 09/03/2007 15:23:09 Originally by: Dr Shameless maybe not change the laser weapons radically but add new type of crystal that changes energy into sound - making it effectively a sonic gun: deals pure kinetic Sound in space? Besides, pretty sure sonic damage would equate to thermal damage and not kinetic. Actually if you want to give Amarr a different, yet scientifically plausible (as far as that matters for a game), damage type the answer is a Particle Beam weapon. Maintains the Amarr racial reliance on energy weapons but a Particle Beam imparts kinetic damage. And yes, particle beams are real things (pre-date even lasers). It is an energy weapon in so far as you use massive amounts of energy to accelerate subatomic particles to near light speed. Those particles, having mass, impart kinetic damage on whatever they hit. EDIT: Bah, going back to re-read an earlier post I see someone else already mentioned Particle Beams on the first page. Ahh well...I'll leave this anyway since it bears repeating.
Bardi MecAuldnis Amarr Pirates of Destruction Union Freelancer Alliance	Posted - 2007.03.09 16:41:00 - [68] I'd love to see a thermal/explosive crystal. For RP value, you could say they were trying to develop an extremely high powered pure thermal crystal, and it ended up causing so much thermal damage that it heats the materials it comes in contact with until they explode. Have it as a t2 crystal that severely owns your range (by like 75%) and whatever else. Boom, we have a viable close range weapon and can alleviate the EM enema. --- Hey hey let's go kenka suru! Taisetsuna mono protect my balls! Boku ga warui so lets fighting! LET'S FIGHTING LOVE!!!
J'Mkarr Soban Amarr Viziam	Posted - 2007.03.09 18:31:00 - [69] Thanks a lot for all your ideas. I think discussing things like this (as I said before) takes out some of the hard work from CCP, making it more likely we get a decent boost if/when we do. (Plus I love hearing other views of the Eve universe . It seems it is plausible to add both explosive (easily, via crystals) and kinetic (harder, means re-working the whole 'energy weapons' tree). Or both, by implementing a missile boat(s) (which I would actually kill for - no, really. Plus it makes perfect sense given the close relations between the Caldari and the Amarr. Make the Apoc a missile boat please!) -J --------------------------------- "He who 'hah hahs' last, 'hah hahs' best." - Nelson Balanced != Nerfed
6Bagheera9 Shadows of the Dead Aftermath Alliance	Posted - 2007.03.09 20:35:00 - [70] Just to one of the many silly notions from this thread, we already have particle beams in EvE. We call them blasters, they just happen to be designed to spew out a large volume of charged particle instead of a narrow beam.
Randolf Sightblinder Ex Coelis	Posted - 2007.03.09 21:14:00 - [71] One thing that sort of bugs me when I look at the lasers I usually do think WTF? The "Holy Grail" of lasing for weapons aplications in most sci-fi and even moden science is an X-ray laser. These lasers are expected to show impact and blast effects on targets and the current problems involve producing them effciently w/o a tactical nuke, look up bomb pumped lasers. The fact that the most damaging lasers are what in the modern world usually the least is amazing. Randolf Sightblinder
Lyzander Caldari BIG Advanced Assault Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.03.09 23:49:00 - [72] Edited by: Lyzander on 09/03/2007 23:47:48 Originally by: 6Bagheera9 Just to one of the many silly notions from this thread, we already have particle beams in EvE. We call them blasters, they just happen to be designed to spew out a large volume of charged particle instead of a narrow beam. They are indeed both particle weapons, however I feel there is enough difference between them to merit a new/tweaked energy weapon class. Particle Blasters are designed to process the ammunition into a contained sphere of plasma, then accelerate the blob toward the target. As the magnetic field breaks down rapidly, Particle Blasters have a very short effective range. Particle Beams on the other hand, would use a smaller quantity of subatomic particles (not necessarily in a plasma state) and accelerate them to near-light speeds in a cohesive beam. The energy contained in the carrier beam itself as well as the immense speed of the particles causes the resultant damage. Particle consumption may necessitate a type of 'ammo' for such weapons, however it would not likely be high enough to be of any real consequence; this could be simplified ingame by either no use of ammo, or have single crystals last dozens/hundreds of shots. Similar superficially, but I think true particle beams definitely would provide a unique new weapon which would still fit with existing backstory & technology. EDIT: The original suggestion I had regarding Particle Beams can be read HERE for those interested.
Gadawan	Posted - 2007.12.13 12:00:00 - [73] Originally by: DarkElf I reckon there's about as much chance of amarr getting explosive crystals as there is of having drones actually do what you tell them. nada DE Can I have explosive crystals now?
Qui Shon	Posted - 2007.12.13 12:14:00 - [74] -Necro -No, you can't because drones still need repeated orders pretty often. -RIP to that guy, if I gatherred things correctly. His posting was often pretty good.
Brother Welcome	Posted - 2007.12.13 12:22:00 - [75] Edited by: Brother Welcome on 13/12/2007 12:24:18 The problem is really that the damage is divided unhelpfully and unalterably across two types. Just have some crystals do more EM and possibly no Therm, and others more Therm and possibly no EM. Then ditch all the overlapping range increments in favour of just short, med, long so you still have about the same number of crystal colours. And keep a decent energy cost reduction on all of them to balance the ships out a bit better.
Cpt Branko The Bloody Red	Posted - 2007.12.13 12:25:00 - [76] Originally by: J'Mkarr Soban This way of thinking about it maintains all the current ways that damage is dealt (shields first, then armour) including resistances. It also makes sense from a storyline point of view - the Minmatar develop EM resistances to shields, so the Amarr think up a way to get through that extra resistance. Anyway, just throwing this out as an idea. Maybe T2 crystals? Probably have to be short range to get the kind of focus needed. It doesn't make sense from a gameplay point of view. Want explosive/kinetic (with various 'mixed damage' T1 ammo)? Use Minmatar. Want kinetic/thermal? Use Gallente. Want everything: Use Caldari/Khanid. Want EM/Thermal? Use Amarr. Should Gallente maybe want a blaster that does explosive+EM damage? Should we give everyone everything? No. There's nothing wrong with racial damage types. Unless you really want to tell me Gallente are so underpowered because they can't do explosive/EM.... Rifters!
James Lyrus Lyrus Associates Enuma Elish.	Posted - 2007.12.13 12:30:00 - [77] Don't think we need new laser damage type stuff. But I reckon we should be looking at what scripts could do for lasers. Like, having a 'energy neut' component, or maybe an 'target unlocking' element to laser weaponry. Or hell, just have 'energy turrets <-> energy pulse weaponse <-> energy transfer systems' type scripts, so you can switch a turret from neut crystal, to multifreq crystal. Or something. That might be funky. Blaze crystals would be bad and wrong, IMO. -- Crane needs more grid 249km locking? GMP and TNP
Cpt Branko The Bloody Red	Posted - 2007.12.13 12:33:00 - [78] Originally by: James Lyrus Don't think we need new laser damage type stuff. But I reckon we should be looking at what scripts could do for lasers. Like, having a 'energy neut' component, or maybe an 'target unlocking' element to laser weaponry. Or hell, just have 'energy turrets <-> energy pulse weaponse <-> energy transfer systems' type scripts, so you can switch a turret from neut crystal, to multifreq crystal. Or something. That might be funky. Blaze crystals would be bad and wrong, IMO. Why not just give lasers smaller cap usage and give the ships with the silly "x reduction to cap usage" bonus a actual gun bonus? Rifters!
achoura	Posted - 2007.12.13 13:05:00 - [79] BLAZE M
Gadawan	Posted - 2007.12.14 08:47:00 - [80] Edited by: Gadawan on 14/12/2007 08:52:36 Originally by: Qui Shon -Necro -No, you can't because drones still need repeated orders pretty often. -RIP to that guy, if I gatherred things correctly. His posting was often pretty good. I better make a new thread about something already disgussed then? You're an idiot. Besides, my drones do exactly what I tell them to.
shinsushi	Posted - 2007.12.14 08:55:00 - [81] Fixing broken omni-tanks and unfair racial resists (gg CCP, minnies get -25% dmg while amarr get -11% dmg ) should fix the issue. An Ad Hominem is a general category of fallacies in which a claim or argument is rejected on the basis of some irrelevant fact about the author of or the person presenting the claim or argument.
Kruel Beyond Divinity Inc	Posted - 2007.12.14 16:02:00 - [82] Originally by: achoura BLAZE M ^^ Me want
Dianeces Minmatar Repo Industries	Posted - 2007.12.14 16:24:00 - [83] Edited by: Dianeces on 14/12/2007 16:26:28 Originally by: Gadawan Originally by: DarkElf I reckon there's about as much chance of amarr getting explosive crystals as there is of having drones actually do what you tell them. nada DE Can I have explosive crystals now? Bad necro is bad. Edit: Poasting in a thread shinsushi has whined in.
Kadoes Khan	Posted - 2007.12.14 18:17:00 - [84] Quote: You might also have noticed that projectiles completely blow without a bonus as well; a lot of Minmatar whiners argue they require two damage bonuses to even function but then conveniently forget the huge advantage of explosive damage and no cap use. If projectiles are that bad would you care to explain why many laser boats out there are using unbonused projectile weapons instead of lasers? -=^=- "Someday the world will recognize the genius in my insanity."
Serret Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.12.14 18:32:00 - [85] Originally by: Lyzander Particle Beams on the other hand, would use a smaller quantity of subatomic particles (not necessarily in a plasma state) What's the definition of the plasma state again? Quote: and accelerate them to near-light speeds in a cohesive beam. The energy contained in the carrier beam itself as well as the immense speed of the particles causes the resultant damage. What "carrier beam" is involved in a stream of particles? Quote: Particle consumption may necessitate a type of 'ammo' for such weapons, however it would not likely be high enough to be of any real consequence; this could be simplified ingame by either no use of ammo, or have single crystals last dozens/hundreds of shots. Where do the particles come from, if not from an "ammo" consumable? If there aren't very many particles, then where does the damage come from? Quote: Similar superficially, but I think true particle beams definitely would provide a unique new weapon which would still fit with existing backstory & technology. A true "firehose of particles which naturally want to fly apart from each other" makes a ton of sense, along with lots of other strange physics in this thread. -- <Coupo`Work> if i die illl gum you to death
Brea Lafail	Posted - 2007.12.14 19:19:00 - [86] Originally by: Barry Cuda Amarr needs lasers that are always on so they can wave them around the battlefield and slice ships in half effortlessly. I would then be happy with lasers. I would give my left foot to see a tachyon beam cut the fins off a maelstrom or a Revelation slicing a Chimera in two. Explosive crystals would be a massive buff to lazorz. While they do need some love, selectable damage type combined with the quick crystal changes would just go too far. As for pseudo-scientific reasoning for such crystals, I could think of a million. Thermal shock causing localized weakening of ceramic plating, resulting in catastrophic (explosive) failure? Rapid evolution of gaseous phases from super-heating of ceramics causing explosion like pressure waves? Who knows. No matter how you look at it, lasers are pure awesome.
Jan Ars The Thrill Kill Club	Posted - 2007.12.14 21:13:00 - [87] Originally by: Deathbarrage Originally by: J'Mkarr Soban Originally by: Deathbarrage there's reasoning for each damage type, there's also enough reasoning that kinetic and thermic is the same since thermal energy is just moving particles... won't happen A discussion on this with my friend who studies Physics. (I know it's only pseudo science in Eve, but still...) Friend: you can't equate the macroscopic kinetic energy of an object with the kinetic energy of the particles that make it up Friend: the internal energy of a thermodynamic system is comprised of kinetic energy due to the rotation, vibration and translation of its particles; and potential energy due to the atomic forces in those particles themselves Friend: those are not equivalent to the kinetic energy of the complete system due to its motion through space Friend: put it this way, you can't cause a macroscopic object to move by hitting it with a laser beam Friend: therefore it has no kinetic effect Friend: you can just about manipulate microscopic glass beads using carefully controlled multiple femtosecond laser pulses, which is what a lot of people spend a lot of time doing in St Andrews Me: Can I quote you? Friend: he's quite right in saying that it imparts kinetic energy to the ship, but only by causing the molecules to vibrate Friend: and guess what that is Friend: heat! Friend: go ahead then to your friend Laser = concentrated light solar sail = Spaceship using a thin foil sail to catch light particles from the sun (AKA photons) and use this as propulsion to achieve sub-light speeds. Equals the solar sail is being pushed by a laser yet your friend just said otherwise even though this technique is being used by NASA weird As a point of order: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_sail The kinetic energy imparted by a single photon is, well, negligible. You don't feel photons striking your skin as an impact, you feel it as heat (if it's substantial enough to feel it at all). I'm not trying to make trouble, but even a solar sail, designed to "catch" the solar wind, is impelled along slowly. Light lacks the kinetic energy, even in a cohesive form, to "strike" an object like a rock might strike a windshield, or an apple might strike your head. Just adding a few thoughts, I would fully support some sort of change to Lasers damage type. ECM Specialist
Jakaman	Posted - 2008.03.10 22:13:00 - [88] Originally by: J'Mkarr Soban Originally by: Sedai Hara Well teh most logical thing is just to turn Em/thermal around. so Lasers do primary Thermal and 2ndary EM. As Em=electromagnetic pulse its not how a laser work in our world(well nothing in eve is like in our world but atleats some logic!) Thermal = heat as every1 should know. heat is pure energy, lightis also pure energi.' Even more logical Lasers=concentrated high-intesety LIGHT, there by, heat(thermal) And we do need a weapon that deals SOME em, but to just flip it around fix it as what i see. you still do EM, good versus shields, and thermal so you can accualy dmg armor. I dont see so many flawns in this. But first just fix the cap usage, will make all amarians happy. Yeah, there is only minor EM effects in lasers: Friend: yeah, a laser beam is a coherent beam of orthogonal E and B fields, it has minimal electromagnetic effect on its target Friend: it's not going to cause an electric charge on it, or induce a magnetic field, because they cancel each other out in the beam Friend: the most it's going to do is bombard it with photons, and cause it to heat up Friend: and there'll be a certain amount of charge deficit due to the photoelectric effect, but probably negligible (I'm learning alot about laser mechanics today ;-) ) As for the cap effects - I don't think the guns should change - it should take alot of power to produce the beam. Instead give the ships better cap and cap bonuses to weapons, to reflect the Amarr 'mastery' of lasers. Yeah, it makes sense for me that EM damage is just that negligible charge deficit. How can that do damage? If explosive crystals weren't introduced into game because they aren't "scientifically explainable", why EM side of damage? And also, what's the difference between explosive and kinetic damage types?
Katrina Coreli No Fear Buccaneers	Posted - 2008.03.10 22:53:00 - [89] N N N N N NEEEECRO POST!
Lyria Skydancer Amarr Home 0f Bored Occultists	Posted - 2008.03.10 23:00:00 - [90] Originally by: J'Mkarr Soban Friend: put it this way, you can't cause a macroscopic object to move by hitting it with a laser beam Ive studied physics at college level too and I can say that this is wrong. The effect might be small but beams have an impact effect on macroscopic objects, ie you can actually move stuff with a laser beam but you need a friggin powerful one and a very light object to see the effect. To say that light doesnt have kinetic impact like a bullet is false. It does have it, but the effect is so small compared to the heating effect/damage that in reality you can disregard it. Still in a game where the physics are physics-lite combined with sci-fi logic there is no theoretical reason to deny lasers doing kinetic damage. -------------------------------------- [Video]Skirmish Warfare

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