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Privateer Alliance , are thay abusing war dec ?

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SFShootme The Carebear Stare Privateer Alliance	Posted - 2007.03.09 16:35:00 - [61] Edited by: SFShootme on 09/03/2007 16:32:07 doublepost =/ Tho shall give Life, for Life.
SFShootme The Carebear Stare Privateer Alliance	Posted - 2007.03.09 16:35:00 - [62] Edited by: SFShootme on 09/03/2007 16:32:07 doublepost =/ Tho shall give Life, for Life.
Crydawner	Posted - 2007.03.09 16:38:00 - [63] i think people get a bad idea of privateers because there's always a few of them camping outside jita ganking those poor dominix battleships (i've seen 3 go pop in like 6 days just as i'm passing), but to think they have at least 50 corps at war with them also, they are not exactly safe! :S
Eilene Fernite	Posted - 2007.03.09 16:38:00 - [64] Edited by: Eilene Fernite on 09/03/2007 16:34:57 Originally by: Miss Anthropy On the other hand, perhaps they haven't said anything yet because they realise that in order to stop the Privateers "abusing" the Wardec system, CCP would have to totally overhaul the said system in order to stop the abuse. And that is no easy task if you think about it. All they'd have to do is put a limit on the numbers of war you can declare as an alliance. Then again, lots of people have screamed about how the war system gets abused for ages. Small beginning corp gets wardecced? Griefers, exploit, CCP stop it please!! Small corp wardecs huge alliance and picks off their haulers in empire? Griefers, exploit, CCP stop it please!! Privateers wardec half of Eve? Yeah, you get the point. When Zombie went on a killing spree in Yulai and laughed in the face of Concord, CCP quickly responded by putting the 'escape Concord = exploit' rule into place, even though it took them a while to adjust Concord so that escape actually became virtually impossible. If they deemed what the Privateers are doing an exploit, they'd have jumped on the case by now.
Crydawner	Posted - 2007.03.09 16:38:00 - [65] i think people get a bad idea of privateers because there's always a few of them camping outside jita ganking those poor dominix battleships (i've seen 3 go pop in like 6 days just as i'm passing), but to think they have at least 50 corps at war with them also, they are not exactly safe! :S
Eilene Fernite	Posted - 2007.03.09 16:38:00 - [66] Edited by: Eilene Fernite on 09/03/2007 16:34:57 Originally by: Miss Anthropy On the other hand, perhaps they haven't said anything yet because they realise that in order to stop the Privateers "abusing" the Wardec system, CCP would have to totally overhaul the said system in order to stop the abuse. And that is no easy task if you think about it. All they'd have to do is put a limit on the numbers of war you can declare as an alliance. Then again, lots of people have screamed about how the war system gets abused for ages. Small beginning corp gets wardecced? Griefers, exploit, CCP stop it please!! Small corp wardecs huge alliance and picks off their haulers in empire? Griefers, exploit, CCP stop it please!! Privateers wardec half of Eve? Yeah, you get the point. When Zombie went on a killing spree in Yulai and laughed in the face of Concord, CCP quickly responded by putting the 'escape Concord = exploit' rule into place, even though it took them a while to adjust Concord so that escape actually became virtually impossible. If they deemed what the Privateers are doing an exploit, they'd have jumped on the case by now.
cyboman	Posted - 2007.03.09 17:10:00 - [67] After the Bob vs anti-bob war is over, do you think you anti-bob forces could set your sights on Privateer Alliance and secure empire? Just a thought.
Harry Paratesteas Caldari State War Academy	Posted - 2007.03.09 17:30:00 - [68] Please see Linkage I asked several people in game about this. Some like them some do. It all depends on what part you like about EvE. If you don't want to be wardec'd to them, then don't join a alliance or corp. that is. Fly safe. Harry Paratesteas War Correspondent
EscapeArtist Caldari GeoTech Curse Alliance	Posted - 2007.03.09 17:32:00 - [69] Curse Alliance is currently mixed up with a war dec with Privateers, and it basically just boils down to making life for members of the Alliance in empire, a pain in the arse... All people are up to in empire, is mining, missions or marketing. Its little more than agro in my mind, but what ever, if people feel like attacking a defenseless miner, or ambushing someone out for a jolly... feel free, it just feels like it violates the mechanics and sprit of the game. ------ I am Legend
Kagura Nikon Minmatar MASS HOMICIDE FREGE Alliance	Posted - 2007.03.09 17:37:00 - [70] Originally by: Awox Originally by: Kagura Nikon Privateers are mostly an anoyance. For example when i need to go to empire to buy a skill book or just graba a module I can't find in 0.0. Originally by: Kagura Nikon When even the best 0.0 pvper is alone. it will be in trouble if caught in a camp of 4 or 5 Privateers ships. Are you implying that Privateers are not of "0.0 Pvper" quality? That's quite funny coming from FREGE alliance. Originally by: Kagura Nikon What is the result? We have to work on aan anyoing way that everytime we go to empire we do it in groups. Of course privateers are not stupid and when theysee an alliance fleet of 30 ships they all hide. Oh really. You think it's silly that a hauler full of valuables should be escorted through empire? Here's a hint, in RL, people get robbed all the time. This is just the way criminals operate in EVE. Since they are in proper corps you can get revenge on them, if you are actually smart enough of course. Originally by: Kagura Nikon We get a bid mad because its a hell lot of work and we never get any pew pew when we are in reasonabel chances (most of times they do not engage any group bigger than 2 ships even if they are in numerical advantage). What, so they're kinda like how FREGE fight in 0.0 and lowsec? Originally by: Kagura Nikon I really think wars should require some type of objective. And that after droped war needed at least 1 week to be restarted. Yeah, objective = killing your dumb ass. I would like you to show me where I said Privateers are not good PVPers... Show me.. Show me or SHUT THE #@!#!@* UP! If you wanna be so rude .. try comming to NGM and being so rude to FREGE there... If brute force doesn't solve your problem... you are not using enough
Harry Paratesteas Caldari State War Academy	Posted - 2007.03.09 17:50:00 - [71] And I quote - "I tell you what. They think they are very smart. They attack their wardeced targets who are fitted for hauling, mining or ratting, while they are fitted for PvP. This gives them a slight advantage. All they are is lazy, since they don't want to work for any 0.0 space. All they want is pew pew without the work that any alliance worth it's salt is doing. If you see them and are by yourself, dock & tell them to Pss off!" Harry Paratesteas* War Correspondent
Aille Pluthrak Caldari Privateers Privateer Alliance	Posted - 2007.03.09 18:54:00 - [72] Originally by: cyboman After the Bob vs anti-bob war is over, do you think you anti-bob forces could set your sights on Privateer Alliance and secure empire? Just a thought. I find this highly unlikely to happen. A majority of the 0.0 Alliance people live, work, and play in 0.0 (or so they say) so why would they even bother to come into Empire to slap around some pirates? They might come up into Empire for a day to "play" but they will get bored when the Privateers do not play by alliance 0.0 rules. Besides after this Anti-BoB war is over whomever wins the war will be spending some quality time cleaning up the 0.0 mess that was made. Grudges will be taken care of and The Privateers will be far from their minds. So if the Empire people want the "problem" to go away they may have to do it themselves. ---------------------- Boom goes the ship! Squish goes the pilot!
Savage Creampuff Caldari Privateers Privateer Alliance	Posted - 2007.03.09 19:04:00 - [73] Originally by: ghosttr I think there should be some way to stop wartargets from hiding in stations. Thats probably the only thing that is somewhat breaking of the whole concept of war. If they want to wage war thats fine but they shouldn't be able to hide behind an invincible npc barrier either. Agreed. That would make things a lot more fun. Do you really need me to point out why this would be unbelievably stupid? Quote: I've sent in plenty of petitions but it seems that CCP just doesn't care about me. Without knowledge of market dynamics theres no way I can compete with these griefers
John Blackthorn Foundation R0ADKILL	Posted - 2007.03.09 19:31:00 - [74]
John Blackthorn Foundation R0ADKILL	Posted - 2007.03.09 19:31:00 - [75] Yes, absoulty they are using the game mechanics to do something that the dev's did not intend to happen. The war system was designed to force another group to do something or compete for resources. Priviters as an alliance can not be defeated because as soon as a corp within said alliance they just leave and are replaced by another group. Hense thers no way to defeat your enemy and force them to un-war dec. Thus CCP does need balance this with a limit of the number of wars an alliance can declair. I think six or nine would be a good number. -John
Redpants Gallente Dead Eagle	Posted - 2007.03.09 20:30:00 - [76] Ok it's getting to the point where all these Privateer threads should be lumped together. They're all about the SAME topic over and over... The short and sweet answer from me is: War decs mean BOTH parties can shoot each other. 'Nuff said. If that doesn't sink in, then continue to ***** about how "safe" Empire was designed to be and every other reason people keep coming up with why they shouldn't be allowed to be war deced while they mission and mine away Empire. Some people make this sound like such a one sided affair. One alliance wardecs the entire galaxy and it's as if they have the upper hand. You have high slots. Target nearby Privateer, and use them. _____________________________________________________________________ "My once immaculate white pants are now stained from the weak and innocent. I don't wear red."
Redpants Gallente Dead Eagle	Posted - 2007.03.09 20:32:00 - [77] Oh and if you really think nerfing this game constantly is the answer you're wrong. Limiting war decs in your mind might close up one percieved loophole, but in reality you will open more. _____________________________________________________________________ "My once immaculate white pants are now stained from the weak and innocent. I don't wear red."
hotgirl933	Posted - 2007.03.09 21:21:00 - [78] the OP simply has no idea
Baru Pel	Posted - 2007.03.09 21:33:00 - [79] Originally by: EscapeArtist Curse Alliance is currently mixed up with a war dec with Privateers, and it basically just boils down to making life for members of the Alliance in empire, a pain in the arse... All people are up to in empire, is mining, missions or marketing. Its little more than agro in my mind, but what ever, if people feel like attacking a defenseless miner, or ambushing someone out for a jolly... feel free, it just feels like it violates the mechanics and sprit of the game. Not trying to flame or incite anything here but... do i think it is an exploit or violation of mechanics, No. do I do think it violates the spirt of the game, a little. If anything they truly do what privateers say they do, sanctioned by the gov't in this case Concord to conduct less than savory actions againt a foe(precieved or actual). So my questions to all the people complaining about being in an alliance that gets decced by Privateers 1) if the partys belong to an 0.0 alliance, shouldn't they be in 0.0? 2) shouldn't the alliance(or corp) be doing doing something to protect their industrial/mining/logistics wings, or teaching them to protect themselves? I guess what I am getting at is that if you want that alliance tag to truly mean something, you have to take the bad with the good.
BoBoZoBo Foundation R0ADKILL	Posted - 2007.03.09 21:59:00 - [80] Personally, I don't see PA as much of a threat and they DO make empire interesting (to a dregree, but even that has it limitations).. but then again I have been here since beta and probably have more SP than most of the groups i see combined. It IS a little annoying to new players just trying to feel out the game. Agreed that though the mechanics technically allow for it, something is VERY wrong with a government (Empire/CONCORD) allowing an alliance to just wardec everyone in an effort to make Empire essentially lawless when it is clear that the war has no purpose other then griefing everyone. MAJOR POINT BEING - MASS GREFING, NO POINT IN THE WAR And that is all it is.. It is not like PA is actually furthering a political or strategic agenda. They are not aquiring new space or really doing anything to move the landscape of EVE. You never see them in 0.0 Its an empty war. No progress is made and it is just an annoyance to empire and lags Jita even more than it would normally be. basically as I see it, they are simply in the way of everything. They do nothing much for EVE At the very least you should be capped after wardecing 60%+ of the playerbase. ========================= Minister of Propaganda - Operator 9
MasterEnt	Posted - 2007.03.09 22:00:00 - [81] Originally by: Savage Creampuff Originally by: ghosttr I think there should be some way to stop wartargets from hiding in stations. Thats probably the only thing that is somewhat breaking of the whole concept of war. If they want to wage war thats fine but they shouldn't be able to hide behind an invincible npc barrier either. Agreed. That would make things a lot more fun. Do you really need me to point out why this would be unbelievably stupid? NO.. we know that if that happened you guys could not run away all the time. You would be getting popped left and right... (more than now that is)
Dangermouse DM Caldari Black River Industries	Posted - 2007.03.09 23:24:00 - [82] Edited by: Dangermouse DM on 09/03/2007 23:22:04 It's a clever idea and it works very well but it makes the game look stupid. Does anyone really think this is intended? I'm a new player my corp was wardecced by PA I had no idea what to do or what threat I was facing. As far as I was concerened Concord would protect me in high-sec or at the very worst being in a little corp we wouldn't be worth the cost of a war dec but by mostly mitigating the costs involved it turns out this is not the case at all. They have had an empty new player corp wardecced for the past 8 weeks because the cost isn't a big deal someone is paying that cost for empire pvp membership. If it's legal put it in the goddamned tutorial or player guide so we know what to expect otherwise get rid of it. It has made empire lawless and thats not told to new players. And to you guys saying "it's not a big deal, it's easy to get around. live with it" have a bit of empathy and understand when you move through high-sec you are risking very little but I might have 100% of my total wealth in my hauler when it gets popped.
SFShootme The Carebear Stare Privateer Alliance	Posted - 2007.03.10 09:51:00 - [83] Dangerhouse, a corp can just surrender to a war-dec... An alliance cannot Tho shall give Life, for Life.
Anna Grahm Caldari	Posted - 2007.03.10 12:22:00 - [84] Yes. They are griefing. I am NOT an alt!
Sorted Privateers Privateer Alliance	Posted - 2007.03.10 13:08:00 - [85] Originally by: SFShootme Dangerhouse, a corp can just surrender to a war-dec... An alliance cannot Errrr not exactly. A Corp in an allaince can quit the allaince - and we get a surrender mail. If they aint in an allaince they aint getting out of the 7 days pew pew. Learn More: Privateers Recruitment
Jeretomi Azure Horizon Coalition Of Empires	Posted - 2007.03.10 13:11:00 - [86] Edited by: Jeretomi on 10/03/2007 13:08:19 Originally by: BoBoZoBo .....Its an empty war. No progress is made and it is just an annoyance to empire and lags Jita even more than it would normally be. basically as I see it, they are simply in the way of everything. They do nothing much for EVE Quote: I very much agree. My alliance has been "at war" more or less continuously for a month or so, but it really doesn't feel like we are at war. Privateer pilots don't know us from Adam, they have no idea where we operate and what we do. There's no coordinated effort to engage us in particular, and as a result most of our pilots cannot be bothered to come into empire to find them. For those of us who operate in Empire they are just an annoyance we could do without. That being said, I don't think they are exploiting anything...at a certain level it adds a bit of spice to Empire life, but I do think the whole war dec system could do with an overhaul. Perhaps it's time for a two tier system. Keep the current system in place, but introduce a way of setting war goals that have to be met in the given time for a victory to be registered. I don't know, the number of pilots killed, or the number of pos destroyed, with the cost of the war going DOWN as the difficulty of achieving the goals increases. This will allow the big corps and alliances to beef it out as they do now in wars that actually have some meaning to the entire EVE comunity. The second type of "war" would be just to allow Empire pirates to get a few easy targets. No war goals, but an indivual corp/alliance can not be war dec'd again once a cycle is over, and limit the number of simultaneous wars a corp or alliance can be involved in to a small number (less than 10). It should still be expensive to declare this sort of war. This will make alliance such the Privateers actually think about the whole process...make them select targets carefully and actively hunt them. Of course ideas like these have been mooted on many occasions, but I for one would like to see some thought put back into EVE combat.
Celeste Coeval	Posted - 2007.03.10 13:23:00 - [87] Edited by: Celeste Coeval on 10/03/2007 13:22:32 I love the posts where 0.0 folk complain that empire isn't safe enough for them. I mean it used to be easy to buy your carebear made products. "If you are out to describe the truth, leave elegance to the tailor." -Albert Einstein
icechip	Posted - 2007.03.10 14:17:00 - [88] If your a true carebare, join a NPC Corp since they cant get War Dec, I usually go to empire to lick my wounds if i suffer to many losses in 0.0. First time i did that, I lost my dected out Raven at a gate camp. Just made me move permitaly to 0.0 Best move i ever made.
Endevite Cirrius Technologies O X I D E	Posted - 2007.03.10 14:30:00 - [89] Edited by: Endevite on 10/03/2007 14:30:30 Nope, definitaly not an exploit. But quite annoying, it wouldn't be so annoying if those evemails could be blocked in regards to the 47382974 billion corps leaving them daily. Could even charge the leaving corp and the alliance a fee to be able for the corp to leave said alliance, or turn it into some kind of "you joined the alliance" contract system, but now must serv a time period before being allowed to leave. A considerably longer period. Much like a military service term. (just not as long) At the very least it would promote more loyalty in alliances in regards to alliance hoppers. It may atleast reduce the constant mailing of so and so dec'd and undec'd ya due to leaving that alliance. It's not like we can block and ignore them. (Which is to bad half of them act like children in just about every responce, not all of them, but a bunch anyway, much like people from WoW.) ---------------- Assumption is thy enemy.
Kruugore Minmatar Vigilant Justice	Posted - 2007.03.10 15:04:00 - [90] It's not abuse. Just put all of your hauling alts into NPC corps, And PEW PEW with your main. Besides, they are helping manufacturers! :) EVE Vault, A Great Community

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