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zus
Cyber Naval Command Research and Development
42
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Posted - 2016.07.26 15:23:44 -
[1] - Quote
Proposal of Ship Scanning as Hostile Act in any solar system, pass the Resolution
Cargo Scanners / Ship Scanners use as Hostile Act. |
Doc Fury
Furious Enterprises
8416
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Posted - 2016.07.26 15:27:47 -
[2] - Quote
WatGäó
WatGäó is brought to you by Jim Era.
Gÿ+
The accumulated filth of all their sex and murder will foam up about their waists and all the ho's and politicians will look up and shout 'Save us!' and I'll look down, and whisper: 'Hodor'.
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Sustrai Aditua
Intandofisa
464
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Posted - 2016.07.26 15:30:04 -
[3] - Quote
He means like if you peek up a lady's skirt, she'll get kinda hostile...usually. I think grabbing a peek under a kilt is a lethal act. However, I know nothing of any of this personally.
If we get chased by zombies, I'm tripping you.
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Max Fubarticus
K Diamond Holding LTD. Bullets Bombs and Blondes
137
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Posted - 2016.07.26 15:30:29 -
[4] - Quote
zus wrote:Proposal of Ship Scanning as Hostile Act in any solar system, pass the Resolution
Cargo Scanners / Ship Scanners use as Hostile Act.
Sorry
Down voting this one.
Civil discourse is uniquely human. After all, when is the last time a pride of lions and a herd of water buffalo negotiated SOV over a watering hole? Never.
Someone either gets their ass kicked or eaten. At the end of the day someone holds SOV.
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Omar Alharazaad
Nefarious Porpoise
3001
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Posted - 2016.07.26 15:31:19 -
[5] - Quote
Yup. Peek up skirt is legit. Thumb up the butt gets the whistle and truncheon.
Come hell or high water, this sick world will know I was here.
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Dark Lord Trump
Pandemic Horde Inc. Pandemic Horde
58
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Posted - 2016.07.26 15:37:56 -
[6] - Quote
Explain why? Cargo scanning is completely harmless to the target ship.
I'm going to build a big wall that will keep the Gallente out, and they're going to pay for it!
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Pandora Carrollon
Kingsman Tailors
488
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Posted - 2016.07.26 15:42:25 -
[7] - Quote
Dark Lord Trump wrote:Explain why? Cargo scanning is completely harmless to the target ship.
Until you see that ship is carrying some precious cargo and then it's an expanding ball of particles.
It's being proposed as a method to engage Concord faster than normal, or in essence stop ganking behavior.
I vote no because if you are going to try to do something that has an effect on a given play style, you need to propose such an effect in the clear and not obfuscate it behind some mechanics change.
You say, "I think we need to do away with suicide ganking" and be done with it, let the chips fall where they may.
I, speaking only for myself, think it's fine as is since it's easily countered.
Be Positive GÇó Change yourself first, New Eden will come later GÇó EVE is Awesome GÇó CCP isn't the enemy GÇó Players are people too GÇó Where're the clothing blueprints GÇó Yeah, I'm still learning this game
-- Pandora's Rules to EVE by
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Sentient Blade
Crisis Atmosphere Coalition of the Unfortunate
1673
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Posted - 2016.07.26 15:43:20 -
[8] - Quote
Suggesting cargo scanning is harmless is the same as suggesting bumping a freighter out of alignment is harmless. Neither is currently an aggressive act due to game mechanics but the reality is it only serves one purpose when done on another ship.
Make cargo scanners make a person go suspect and job done. After all, if a police officer saw someone peeking in everyones' car windows he would get rightly suspicious. |
Lady Ayeipsia
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
1136
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Posted - 2016.07.26 15:45:11 -
[9] - Quote
So basically every custom agent who works for the NPC corps and are checking for contraban such as exotic dancers in say a 1.0 minmirar system would be criminslly flagged? That seems like a bad idea. It's technically not just players who scan.
As for the notion of players.... Ok... So I create an alt that flies an ibis with a cargo scanner. By hostile act you mean one of two things... A concordable action or a criminal flag.
In the case of concordable, you've just created the easiest method of pulling concord from a gate, allowing gankers more time to kill frieghters. Through an attempt at changed a mechanic you dislike and a lack of understanding of the game mechanics, you've made it easier to gank targets. Congrats... I think. You've just buffed ganking.
If you mean criminal flag.... Oooo... People can kill am ibis scanning you. You'll still be scanned and ganked. So you've changed nothing.
In the mean time, you've made my life exceedingly difficult We don't like neutral boosters in RvB. People use them despite the prohibition against it. The easiest way to start investigating this is to scan that odd neutral command ship/T3 cruiser. If they are running links that boost multiple types of tank or one that boosts warp disruption modules, chances are it is a neutral boost causing problems and has to be dealt with. If it just has shield boosts, it's more likely somone's mission alt trying to squeeze every last isk per second in. But no... Because you dislike a useful tool, my job becomes harder. Thanks.
Or say I am an explorer. Did you know cargo scanners let you are what's in a relic of data site can before hacking it? A quick scan saves me from wasting time on a can that is worthless. But nope, I lose that too because you don't like the mechanics of the game.
Just because you don't like done uses for a tool doesn't mean it should be banned. Real world anology... I can kill someone with a baseball bat, a hammer, a tire iron, golf club, length of rope, and a ton of other stuff... Let's make them illegal! Oh wait... They all have valid useful functions. In eve a cargo or ship scanner is no different. |
zus
Cyber Naval Command Research and Development
42
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Posted - 2016.07.26 15:47:01 -
[10] - Quote
Dark Lord Trump wrote:Explain why? Cargo scanning is completely harmless to the target ship.
What is the motive in their use |
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Sentient Blade
Crisis Atmosphere Coalition of the Unfortunate
1674
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Posted - 2016.07.26 15:53:40 -
[11] - Quote
Lady Ayeipsia wrote:So basically every custom agent who works for the NPC corps and are checking for contraban such as exotic dancers in say a 1.0 minmirar system would be criminslly flagged? That seems like a bad idea. It's technically not just players who scan.
This makes my brain hurt... or are you actually suggesting that NPCs follow all the same rules and CONCORD is just taking a day off when a rat starts shooting at you in a belt?
Lady Ayeipsia wrote:As for the notion of players.... Ok... So I create an alt that flies an ibis with a cargo scanner. By hostile act you mean one of two things... A concordable action or a criminal flag.
We have a second mode called suspect.
Lady Ayeipsia wrote:In the case of concordable, you've just created the easiest method of pulling concord from a gate, allowing gankers more time to kill frieghters. Through an attempt at changed a mechanic you dislike and a lack of understanding of the game mechanics, you've made it easier to gank targets. Congrats... I think. You've just buffed ganking.
CONCORD are being pulled off anyway... all that same IBIS has to do is blast anyone with a civilian gatling gun, and if they're going to drag CONCORD off they're going to already have that prepared.
...
Anyway, almost your entire post was nonsense I'm afraid so I'm just going to stop doing it line-by-line.
..
Also, ISD will be along in a few to move you to: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=topics&f=270 |
Rovinia
Exotic Dancers Union SONS of BANE
526
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Posted - 2016.07.26 16:35:28 -
[12] - Quote
This would only lead to random ganking of haulers.... And punish those who play careful enough to not make themselfe a target. |
Memphis Baas
1806
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Posted - 2016.07.26 16:51:13 -
[13] - Quote
Remove cargo scanners from the game.
Change all cargo holds to be made of glass, so that you can just see wtf everyone is carrying.
Or put it in the show info of the ship. |
Sobaan Tali
Caldari Quick Reaction Force
970
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Posted - 2016.07.26 16:52:25 -
[14] - Quote
I can see validity on both sides of the issue; on the one hand, cargo scanners are non-hostile modules and their use by themselves denote no aggression, however their use is often an act that very exclusively proceeds intents that are hostile and aggressive.
Would adding an indicator, visual via the EWAR icons and maybe an audible one if needed, to let people know they've been scanned suffice as a compromise? Even a suspect timer seems a bit much, but as an extreme, would make better sense than further escalation in the aggression mechanics for simply scanning someone's cargo. At that point, you might as well argue that simply locking on to someone not in fleet and while non-logi or support boat denotes hostile intent or that using combat scan probes to scan down someone else is a hostile action because "why else would someone do that if they didn't have hostile intents in mind?" Both would be not only ridiculous to claim and arguments that would get you no where fast.
"Tomahawks?"
"----in' A, right?"
"Trouble is, those things cost like a million and a half each."
"----, you pay me half that and I'll hump in some c4 and blow the ---- out of it my own damn self."
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Nana Skalski
Poseidaon
13957
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Posted - 2016.07.26 16:52:55 -
[15] - Quote
Oh no, this is already becoming ganker/antiganker battle too.
HELP! ISD, CLOSE ALL TEH FORUMS, its an outbreak!
I give you ( -á° -ƒ-û -í°)/ Boarding bays Gÿá
Every part of a game helps to tell a story. =ƒôò
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Caco De'mon
New Order Logistics CODE.
3
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Posted - 2016.07.26 16:57:35 -
[16] - Quote
Carrying weapons on ones ship should be considered as an act of hostility. We must make New Eden 100% safe from all violence and threatening acts. The color red is also too aggressive and also should be banned. Also the letter "x". |
Ralph King-Griffin
Devils Rejects 666 The Devil's Warrior Alliance
17077
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Posted - 2016.07.26 16:59:00 -
[17] - Quote
zus wrote:Dark Lord Trump wrote:Explain why? Cargo scanning is completely harmless to the target ship. What is the motive in their use Curiosity, same with the ship scanner.
Better the Devil you know.
=]|[=
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Verlyn
Teutate raiders DARKNESS.
59
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Posted - 2016.07.26 17:00:41 -
[18] - Quote
What in the ****..
WHO ARE YOU PEOPLE ?? WHERE DO YOU COME FROM ??? |
Buliki
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
11
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Posted - 2016.07.26 17:02:03 -
[19] - Quote
THEY KNOW!
SHUT IT DOWN!
Yes, that's what I'm implying... look at yourselves devs... you created that... something to be proud of...
Look Sun, I created a karma |
Sobaan Tali
Caldari Quick Reaction Force
971
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Posted - 2016.07.26 17:04:37 -
[20] - Quote
Verlyn wrote:What in the ****..
WHO ARE YOU PEOPLE ?? WHERE DO YOU COME FROM ???
Hate to break it to you, but it's GD; this IS where they come from.
"Tomahawks?"
"----in' A, right?"
"Trouble is, those things cost like a million and a half each."
"----, you pay me half that and I'll hump in some c4 and blow the ---- out of it my own damn self."
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Jenn aSide
Shinigami Miners Test Alliance Please Ignore
14355
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Posted - 2016.07.26 17:06:00 -
[21] - Quote
Verlyn wrote:What in the ****..
WHO ARE YOU PEOPLE ?? WHERE DO YOU COME FROM ???
Hisec.
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Jarod Garamonde
Jolly Codgers Get Off My Lawn
2665
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Posted - 2016.07.26 17:09:16 -
[22] - Quote
zus wrote:Proposal of Ship Scanning as Hostile Act in any solar system, pass the Resolution
Cargo Scanners / Ship Scanners use as Hostile Act.
What's a "hostile act"?
(note: the above was posted by someone who doesn't know anything about Empire space, anymore)
That moment when you realize the crazy lady with all the cats was right...
[#savethelance]
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Lady Ayeipsia
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
1136
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Posted - 2016.07.26 17:10:08 -
[23] - Quote
Sobaan Tali wrote:I can see validity on both sides of the issue; on the one hand, cargo scanners are non-hostile modules and their use by themselves denote no aggression, however their use is often an act that very exclusively proceeds intents that are hostile and aggressive.
Would adding an indicator, visual via the EWAR icons and maybe an audible one if needed, to let people know they've been scanned suffice as a compromise? Even a suspect timer seems a bit much, but as an extreme, would make better sense than further escalation in the aggression mechanics for simply scanning someone's cargo. At that point, you might as well argue that simply locking on to someone not in fleet and while non-logi or support boat denotes hostile intent or that using combat scan probes to scan down someone else is a hostile action because "why else would someone do that if they didn't have hostile intents in mind?" Both would be not only ridiculous to claim and arguments that would get you no where fast.
What about passive targeters? Usually, the two modules are used in conjunction so you do not know you have even been locked, much less scanned. |
Lady Ayeipsia
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
1136
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Posted - 2016.07.26 17:11:30 -
[24] - Quote
Caco De'mon wrote:Carrying weapons on ones ship should be considered as an act of hostility. We must make New Eden 100% safe from all violence and threatening acts. The color red is also too aggressive and also should be banned. Also the letter "x".
I am strongly opposed to banning Red! |
Caco De'mon
New Order Logistics CODE.
3
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Posted - 2016.07.26 17:15:13 -
[25] - Quote
Lady Ayeipsia wrote:Caco De'mon wrote:Carrying weapons on ones ship should be considered as an act of hostility. We must make New Eden 100% safe from all violence and threatening acts. The color red is also too aggressive and also should be banned. Also the letter "x". I am strongly opposed to banning Red!
Well anything darker than Maroon should go. The rusts are ok as are the pinks but we must think of the space children. I mean, when they are not freaking out over being scanned, can't rest their little innocent eyes on non threatening colors too?
Oh and the purples are also out....
*"See now that I, even I, am he, and there is no god with me: I kill, and I make alive; I wound, and I heal: neither is there any that can deliver out of my hand."
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Drago Shouna
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
484
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Posted - 2016.07.26 17:15:42 -
[26] - Quote
One of the overriding themes of threads like this is a complete lack of punishment.
Losing a cheap ass ship in a gank and then having a 15 min tea break is hardly a punishment.
Scanning a ship without the other players knowledge should be more difficult than it presently is.
Personally I'd double the timers at a minimum and make them unable to dock in an NPC station for the duration after becoming suspect.
It could be argued that even that isn't enough of a deterrent or punishment.
But one thing is crystal clear, just looking at the sheer number of threads like this should put up a big warning flag that part of the game is wrong. But CCP just seem to ignore them and quote a post from a while ago then lock them.
This isn't the game that was released 12 years ago, it's far different beast now and CCP need to realise something....times change, gamers appetites change. We are now a whole new generation on and they need to change with the times. Sticking to the same old mantra has led us to where we are now, a declining player base because the vast majority are being ignored in favour of a minority who never want change, but lack of change leads to stagnation.
CCP needs to move on and change, the route they are on only leads to oblivion. |
Verlyn
Teutate raiders DARKNESS.
59
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Posted - 2016.07.26 17:17:05 -
[27] - Quote
Hell, at this rate,
I PROPOSE
CONSENSUAL TARGETING MODE !!
As in, "You cant target me if I dont want you to"...
Along the lines of " You cant buddylist me if I dont want you to" ...
Lets keep this going CCP, really, keep listening to the QQing little ****s and and Eve will for sure go places. |
Nana Skalski
Poseidaon
13957
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Posted - 2016.07.26 17:28:17 -
[28] - Quote
PLEASE ALSO BRING BACK PLEASURE HUBS AND QUAFE GIRLS. And this veteran retirement station you promised.
IBTL.
I give you ( -á° -ƒ-û -í°)/ Boarding bays Gÿá
Every part of a game helps to tell a story. =ƒôò
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Lex Gabinia
Res Repetundae
30
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Posted - 2016.07.26 17:32:51 -
[29] - Quote
Drago Shouna wrote:CCP needs to move on and change, the route they are on only leads to oblivion.
So...EVE is dying?
Also, why does the game have to change instead of the players? Perhaps you should learn to be more open to different kinds of games. I play different games for different experiences.
EVE provides the visceral risk of loss and destruction at any moment and requires thought and time to succeed. Other games can be enjoyed casually and with easier success.
I and others have said for a long time that if you don't like EVE then don't play. Maybe that is a bit extreme. Instead, maybe we should say that if you don't find everything you want in EVE then find other games that can give you what you think is missing from EVE and try to enjoy EVE for what it does give you.
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Shallanna Yassavi
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
277
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Posted - 2016.07.26 17:36:03 -
[30] - Quote
About the only positive thing this would do is make those cargo scanners we salvage from missions by the dozen more valuable.
A signature :o
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