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Dracvlad
Taishi Combine Second-Dawn
1938
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Posted - 2016.07.27 10:04:09 -
[91] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Dracvlad wrote:
Lets take a few examples of what people call nerfing ganking, CCP decided to change the DCU II to a passive modules, which you do not switch on, so they adjusted the structures on various ships including freighters that could not use it. And the gankers cried nerf.
Adding the EHP of another freighter to jump freighters already large tank is a hell of a nerf considering these ships couldn't even fit a DCU. Plus the DCU change failed to meet its own goals, the mod is still a must have on everything that fitted them before. Dracvlad wrote: Another one, no consequence bumping to hold people in space, there is now going to be a timer, do you call that a nerf to ganking or an adjustment of a poor mechanic.
Both. There were very easy counters to it but the fix isn't game breaking to ganking as you can still use the tactic to get the freighter into position. Dracvlad wrote: At the moment they scoop loot by parking a DST next to a wreck and their freighter, incomes a noob ship which scoops the loot into the DST fleet hanger, the freighter pilot scoops that into his hanger, the noob ship goes suspect and can be shot. Would adjusting that be a nerf to ganking or a nerf to loot scooping.
People have yet to explain how you squeeze a freighter worth of cargo into a DST to pull this off.
And there you go an example of what I said. He also does some obfuscation on their use of DST's
Watch and learn
https://www.twitch.tv/jason_kusion
COHE, the Coalition of Hisec Entities is now in operation, time to make hisec work for people who operate there.
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baltec1
Bat Country Pandemic Legion
17711
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Posted - 2016.07.27 10:24:49 -
[92] - Quote
You link to an offline channel..
Ok lets make this simple. How do you squeeze 1,000,000 m3 package through a 60,000 m3 hold? |
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine Second-Dawn
1938
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Posted - 2016.07.27 10:32:48 -
[93] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:You link to an offline channel.. Ok lets make this simple. How do you squeeze 1,000,000 m3 package through a 60,000 m3 hold?
Well he is not active at the moment, must have gorged himself on too many fat freighters and the boredom from how easy it was finally got to him.
You know how this works, stop playing a dumb troll...
COHE, the Coalition of Hisec Entities is now in operation, time to make hisec work for people who operate there.
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Gimme Sake
State War Academy Caldari State
404
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Posted - 2016.07.27 10:40:48 -
[94] - Quote
Nana Skalski wrote:PLEASE ALSO BRING BACK PLEASURE HUBS AND QUAFE GIRLS. And this veteran retirement station you promised.
IBTL.
I vote for that.
"Never not blob!" ~ Plato
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Galaxy Chicken
Free Highsec Industrialists
50
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Posted - 2016.07.27 13:56:37 -
[95] - Quote
These threads are greatly entertaining and I advocate for the creation of more of them.
One might point out that looting mechanics would be less of an issue if anti-ganking weren't so fail at preventing ganks. |
Nomad Willis
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2016.07.27 14:47:19 -
[96] - Quote
Either create a mod or add a bonus to certain ships that doesn't allow you to be scanned without you seeing who. They can scan you all they want but if you are fit for it, then you will see them scanning you.
At least gives you some insight on who is peeking in your "window" |
Chopper Rollins
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
1454
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Posted - 2016.07.27 15:07:18 -
[97] - Quote
Nomad Willis wrote:Either create a mod or add a bonus to certain ships that doesn't allow you to be scanned without you seeing who. They can scan you all they want but if you are fit for it, then you will see them scanning you.
At least gives you some insight on who is peeking in your "window"
There is a scanning effect in space if the scanner has a passive targeting array fitted to avoid yellow box. The number of people for whom this item is a mystery is upsetting. I recommend newbros to fit passive targeting and ship scanner to look at people's fits, to get ideas or see mods they might never have thought of. Cargo scanners also let them know just how stupidly valuable some of those ships going past really are.
It's impossible to completely hide that you are scanning ships, so that's out, too.
Goggles. Making me look good. Making you look good.
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Lan Wang
Knights of the Posing Meat FETID
3344
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Posted - 2016.07.27 15:11:13 -
[98] - Quote
zus wrote:Proposal of Ship Scanning as Hostile Act in any solar system, pass the Resolution
Cargo Scanners / Ship Scanners / Survey Scanners / Probe Scanners use as Hostile Act.
FTFY
FETID now recruiting pvp pilots | lowsec pvp & piracy
Loyalist to Angel Cartel
Your killboard reads like a "how to get farmed 101" - Noah Reese
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Nomad Willis
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2016.07.27 15:41:59 -
[99] - Quote
Chopper Rollins wrote:Nomad Willis wrote:Either create a mod or add a bonus to certain ships that doesn't allow you to be scanned without you seeing who. They can scan you all they want but if you are fit for it, then you will see them scanning you.
At least gives you some insight on who is peeking in your "window" There is a scanning effect in space if the scanner has a passive targeting array fitted to avoid yellow box. The number of people for whom this item is a mystery is upsetting. I recommend newbros to fit passive targeting and ship scanner to look at people's fits, to get ideas or see mods they might never have thought of. Cargo scanners also let them know just how stupidly valuable some of those ships going past really are. It's impossible to completely hide that you are scanning ships, so that's out, too.
Good to know, but undocking from trade hubs tends to be a visual crap show. Half the time there are 10 other ships all dog piled while everyone tries to warp off. The scanner is god knows where in relation to your undock postion. How would you know, even if you did see it, that it was you they were targeting. Its not like the eye molest you for very long... quick look and on to the next guy.
My point is mostly around tools for both sides. Information and a bit of luck is all that a target really has. |
baltec1
Bat Country Pandemic Legion
17713
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Posted - 2016.07.27 16:16:30 -
[100] - Quote
Dracvlad wrote:baltec1 wrote:You link to an offline channel.. Ok lets make this simple. How do you squeeze 1,000,000 m3 package through a 60,000 m3 hold? You know how this works, stop playing a dumb troll...
I know its impossible. |
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Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
5022
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Posted - 2016.07.27 17:28:00 -
[101] - Quote
Nomad Willis wrote:Either create a mod or add a bonus to certain ships that doesn't allow you to be scanned without you seeing who. They can scan you all they want but if you are fit for it, then you will see them scanning you.
At least gives you some insight on who is peeking in your "window"
You can double wrap your cargo which means it cannot be scanned. However, people might gank you suspecting such cargo is valuable. Just as people will alpha blockade runners (which cannot be cargo scanned) on the off chance they too are carrying something valuable.
You do have a way of seeing who is "peeking in your window" you must target a ship to use scanners (i.e. yellow box them). The only way around this is if they fit a passive locking module. If you are not paying attention to who is yellow boxing you as you fly...that is your problem. Fix it. Pay attention.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
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zus
Cyber Naval Command Research and Development
43
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Posted - 2016.07.27 17:28:41 -
[102] - Quote
After this discussion i came to the realization that a scanning suppression signal unit needs to be developed
although a unit like this can greatly interfere with ship's sensors it will provide the privacy and ease of mind to those who select to use it |
Brokk Witgenstein
Extreme Agony The Wraithguard.
474
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Posted - 2016.07.27 17:30:20 -
[103] - Quote
Ummmm wise guy. Freighters don't have fitting- where exactly would we put those Scan Suppressors, and secondly ... is it wise to fit something that'll make you primary while at the same time gimping your tank? |
Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
5023
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Posted - 2016.07.27 17:48:32 -
[104] - Quote
Nomad Willis wrote:Chopper Rollins wrote:Nomad Willis wrote:Either create a mod or add a bonus to certain ships that doesn't allow you to be scanned without you seeing who. They can scan you all they want but if you are fit for it, then you will see them scanning you.
At least gives you some insight on who is peeking in your "window" There is a scanning effect in space if the scanner has a passive targeting array fitted to avoid yellow box. The number of people for whom this item is a mystery is upsetting. I recommend newbros to fit passive targeting and ship scanner to look at people's fits, to get ideas or see mods they might never have thought of. Cargo scanners also let them know just how stupidly valuable some of those ships going past really are. It's impossible to completely hide that you are scanning ships, so that's out, too. Good to know, but undocking from trade hubs tends to be a visual crap show. Half the time there are 10 other ships all dog piled while everyone tries to warp off. The scanner is god knows where in relation to your undock postion. How would you know, even if you did see it, that it was you they were targeting. Its not like the eye molest you for very long... quick look and on to the next guy. My point is mostly around tools for both sides. Information and a bit of luck is all that a target really has.
You have the tools...look at your overview to see who is scanning you. Adjust your overview so you can see as many ships as possible and scroll up and down. I have spotted people scanning me before, it is not that hard. I've even convo'd them and ask if they like what they saw. Usually they do, but there isn't enough of it to make a gank worthwhile. Especially as I use a JF now, and often jump out of the trade hub to who knows where from their perspective.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
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Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
5023
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Posted - 2016.07.27 17:49:56 -
[105] - Quote
zus wrote:After this discussion i came to the realization that a scanning suppression signal unit needs to be developed
although a unit like this can greatly interfere with ship's sensors it will provide the privacy and ease of mind to those who select to use it
Ok, how about it gives you a suspect timer so people can shoot you if you use it.
You should not be allowed to shield yourself from the consequences of being imprudent.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
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Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
5023
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Posted - 2016.07.27 17:55:21 -
[106] - Quote
Brokk Witgenstein wrote:Ummmm wise guy. Freighters don't have fitting- where exactly would we put those Scan Suppressors, and secondly ... is it wise to fit something that'll make you primary while at the same time gimping your tank?
Good point. Fit such a module and people might gank you figuring you got something valuable you are hiding.
Really....think these things through people.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
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Ralph King-Griffin
Devils Rejects 666 The Devil's Warrior Alliance
17091
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Posted - 2016.07.27 18:06:34 -
[107] - Quote
zus wrote:After this discussion i came to the realization that a scanning suppression signal unit needs to be developed
although a unit like this can greatly interfere with ship's sensors it will provide the privacy and ease of mind to those who select to use it Yup, you can rest assured that 100% of gankers that scan you will then fire. Its always good to have things predictable.
Edit: Incase you werent aware , blocade runners are cargo scan immune and get ganked on sight , "blocade runner roulet"
Better the Devil you know.
=]|[=
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zus
Cyber Naval Command Research and Development
43
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Posted - 2016.07.27 18:18:51 -
[108] - Quote
Brokk Witgenstein wrote:Ummmm wise guy. Freighters don't have fitting- where exactly would we put those Scan Suppressors, and secondly ... is it wise to fit something that'll make you primary while at the same time gimping your tank?
3 low fittings |
baltec1
Bat Country Pandemic Legion
17715
|
Posted - 2016.07.27 18:19:12 -
[109] - Quote
Ralph King-Griffin wrote: Edit: Incase you werent aware , blocade runners are cargo scan immune and get ganked on sight , "blocade runner roulet"
Never understood this change. What is the point of making the cargo hold unscannable on a ship that cant be locked anyway because it warps cloaked. |
zus
Cyber Naval Command Research and Development
43
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Posted - 2016.07.27 18:20:44 -
[110] - Quote
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:zus wrote:After this discussion i came to the realization that a scanning suppression signal unit needs to be developed
although a unit like this can greatly interfere with ship's sensors it will provide the privacy and ease of mind to those who select to use it Yup, you can rest assured that 100% of gankers that scan you will then fire. Its always good to have things predictable. Edit: Incase you werent aware , blocade runners are cargo scan immune and get ganked on sight , "blocade runner roulet"
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Lady Ayeipsia
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
1150
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Posted - 2016.07.27 18:21:18 -
[111] - Quote
Teckos Pech wrote:zus wrote:After this discussion i came to the realization that a scanning suppression signal unit needs to be developed
although a unit like this can greatly interfere with ship's sensors it will provide the privacy and ease of mind to those who select to use it Ok, how about it gives you a suspect timer so people can shoot you if you use it. You should not be allowed to shield yourself from the consequences of being imprudent.
It's not a bad idea though. It would have to be a low slot mod to work on a frieghter. And it is fairly balanced already. Using it prevents scanning modes from working at the cost of lower tank as it takes up a slot. |
Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
5027
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Posted - 2016.07.27 18:24:34 -
[112] - Quote
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:zus wrote:After this discussion i came to the realization that a scanning suppression signal unit needs to be developed
although a unit like this can greatly interfere with ship's sensors it will provide the privacy and ease of mind to those who select to use it Yup, you can rest assured that 100% of gankers that scan you will then fire. Its always good to have things predictable. Edit: Incase you werent aware , blocade runners are cargo scan immune and get ganked on sight , "blocade runner roulet"
Yup, which is why if you use a blockade runner you use insta-undock bookmarks, insta-docking bookmarks, and you should be good with warp and cloak activation as well. Even still you might still get popped if you are unlucky.
So, if you could fit a module to a freighter that made it impossible to scan, my guess is you'd still be putting a "Gank Me" sign on your ship.
You can try using insta-undock bookmarks in a freighter, but you might still get locked and scanned. Still it could help. Also try messing up their plans. Undock, warp off, and along your route dock up in a 0.9 system. Go AFK for a random period of time. Go for a walk, stretch, get some food, a bio, a shower, whatever. The longer you take the more likely they'll be to find another target in the mean time.
Also, for the love of God Stop. Filling. Your. Freighter. With. 8 billion ISK. Worth. Of. Stuff.
Yes, it might mean 8-10 trips to move all that stuff, but if you have 800 million in your hold vs. 8 billion...they are far less likely to gank you over 800 million (of which about 400 million is expected to drop).
Also, look at the cargo, if it is some small and expensive modules that are causing the problem and then lots of other low value stuff...try this.
1. Undock in your freighter. 2. Warp to another less used station in system. 3. Dock up. 4. Put the high end stuff in your blockade runner. 5. Undock. 6. Warp to an insta-undock book mark while activating your cloak. 7. Proceed to destination in the blockade runner. 8. As you warp off of every gate, be sure to activate your cloak ASAP. (If necessary practice this.) 9. Hop in a shuttle or ceptor, go back to the trade hub. 10. Get in your freighter and transport the low value bulky stuff.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
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Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
5027
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Posted - 2016.07.27 18:26:33 -
[113] - Quote
Dammit; double post.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
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Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
5027
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Posted - 2016.07.27 18:30:38 -
[114] - Quote
zus wrote:Ralph King-Griffin wrote:zus wrote:After this discussion i came to the realization that a scanning suppression signal unit needs to be developed
although a unit like this can greatly interfere with ship's sensors it will provide the privacy and ease of mind to those who select to use it Yup, you can rest assured that 100% of gankers that scan you will then fire. Its always good to have things predictable. Edit: Incase you werent aware , blocade runners are cargo scan immune and get ganked on sight , "blocade runner roulet"
No, he is correct. I lost a viator that way once. I foolishly warped to zero to Jita 4-4 vs. a bookmark. Got blapped as I landed 2,000m or so away from the station.
I then looked the guy up on zkillboard and he had quite a history of blapping blockade runners. Yes, he looses his ship, but it does indeed happen.
Similarly, there are people who have complained about being ganked while moving a double wrapped cargo. The gankers are playing a numbers game in that case. So, all they have to do is hit enough such freighters and get that one big pay off to cover all the failures and then some.
See, most people are not going to bother double wrapping 50 million units of tritanium. But if they have 6 trillion ISK worth of goodies...then they might double wrap thinking ganking groups will not gank what they can't see. But as we can see...it might very well be worth it.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
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Mara Pahrdi
The Order of Anoyia
1160
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Posted - 2016.07.27 19:51:23 -
[115] - Quote
Dracvlad wrote:Lets take a few examples of what people call nerfing ganking, CCP decided to change the DCU II to a passive modules, which you do not switch on, so they adjusted the structures on various ships including freighters that could not use it. And the gankers cried nerf.
While I wouldn't call it an outright nerf to ganking, it definitley was a huge buff for lazy autopiloting capsuleers. Also for folks that cannot be bothered to press a button after each jump, or when they leave a station.
It's about the same category of pilots that needed the safety button to be introduced in the game, because the confirmation of a message, that bad things are about to happen if the pilot continues trying to shoot that specific target, was way too much attention required.
I had a good laugh in one of the late ganking threads, when a poster proposed a confirmation window to pop up for some situation.
CCP has catered to the inattentive, lazy, easy gameplay during the last years in a way, that is very well comparable to some of the stuff Blizzard has done to WoW in the past. All in the name of gameplay improvement.
No wonder, folks can't be bothered to do even basic maths anymore when loading their paper thin space trucks with all their belongings, completely ignoring EVEs rule no 1: You simply don't fly what you don't want to lose. Period.
Remove insurance.
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Shae Tadaruwa
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
658
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Posted - 2016.07.27 19:55:53 -
[116] - Quote
Mara Pahrdi wrote:Dracvlad wrote:Lets take a few examples of what people call nerfing ganking, CCP decided to change the DCU II to a passive modules, which you do not switch on, so they adjusted the structures on various ships including freighters that could not use it. And the gankers cried nerf.
While I wouldn't call it an outright nerf to ganking, it definitley was a huge buff for lazy autopiloting capsuleers. Also for folks that cannot be bothered to press a button after each jump, or when they leave a station. It's about the same category of pilots that needed the safety button to be introduced in the game, because the confirmation of a message, that bad things are about to happen if the pilot continues trying to shoot that specific target, was way too much attention required. I had a good laugh in one of the late ganking threads, when a poster proposed a confirmation window to pop up for some situation. CCP has catered to the inattentive, lazy, easy gameplay during the last years in a way, that is very well comparable to some of the stuff Blizzard has done to WoW in the past. All in the name of gameplay improvement. No wonder, folks can't be bothered to do even basic maths anymore when loading their paper thin space trucks with all their belongings, completely ignoring EVEs rule no 1: You simply don't fly what you don't want to lose. Period. Why you bother Mara?
You know he's jus going to come back with some dumb comment, completely disregarding your view because it doesn't agree with his.
Even Fozzie, when announcing the DC rebalance, referred to it as a nerf to ganking.
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Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
7846
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Posted - 2016.07.27 20:02:27 -
[117] - Quote
Come to think of it, why not at least have a suspect flag for people scanning. After all, if somebody is going around a parking lot looking into cars, would that behavior not be "suspect"?
I know I known "Hurf blurf this is not real life hurf blurf not another nerf".
These days I don't get wrapped up in "don't they want PVP?" They don't. Heck even RvB turned out to be a kill-farming scam.
Bring back DEEEEP Space!
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Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
5027
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Posted - 2016.07.27 20:13:41 -
[118] - Quote
Mara Pahrdi wrote:
No wonder, folks can't be bothered to do even basic maths anymore when loading their paper thin space trucks with all their belongings, completely ignoring EVEs rule no 1: You simply don't fly what you don't want to lose. Period.
This should be on a message for every new account that does not disappear until the person creating that account types it into a field 10 times.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
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Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
5027
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Posted - 2016.07.27 20:18:54 -
[119] - Quote
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:Come to think of it, why not at least have a suspect flag for people scanning. After all, if somebody is going around a parking lot looking into cars, would that behavior not be "suspect"?
I know I known "Hurf blurf this is not real life hurf blurf not another nerf".
These days I don't get wrapped up in "don't they want PVP?" They don't. Heck even RvB turned out to be a kill-farming scam.
Not to the point where you can shoot them....well...okay, not normally.
Looking in a car window is NOT illegal, to continue with your analogy. Sure a cop might come by and ask what you are doing and harass you, but unless you are trespassing it is not illegal. I could be walking to my car and stopping an looking in the window of every car on the way.
As for them not wanting PvP...yeah, that is part of the problem. Some people are playing this game not realizing one of its core elements.
You can shoot anyone, anywhere, at anytime so long as you accept the consequences.
If you do not understand this part of the game....you are going to be in for a rude surprise when somebody decides to accept the consequences and shoot you....maybe even destroy your ship and take whatever drops.
Everything working as intended.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
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Mephiztopheleze
Laphroaig Inc.
833
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Posted - 2016.07.27 22:23:07 -
[120] - Quote
zus wrote:After this discussion i came to the realization that a scanning suppression signal unit needs to be developed
although a unit like this can greatly interfere with ship's sensors it will provide the privacy and ease of mind to those who select to use it
we have such a unit. it's called the Blockade Runner T2 Industrial Ship.
baltec1 wrote:Ralph King-Griffin wrote: Edit: Incase you werent aware , blocade runners are cargo scan immune and get ganked on sight , "blocade runner roulet"
Never understood this change. What is the point of making the cargo hold unscannable on a ship that cant be locked anyway because it warps cloaked.
yeah, it is something of a redundant ship bonus. it'd be far more useful on a Deep Space Transport.
Occasional Resident Newbie Correspondent for TMC: http://themittani.com/search/site/mephiztopheleze
This is my Forum Main. My Combat Alt is sambo Inkura
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