| Pages: 1 2 3 4 :: [one page] |
| Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Enkryption
   |
Posted - 2007.03.11 22:46:00 -
[1]
No, I mean it! Destroying a 200 man fleet in the blink of an eye is just completely awesome! I mean god forbid there actually be a battle! Why when you can destroy that many ships with the push of a single button on a single ship!? Awesome!
Good job on this one CCP.
|
Dark Shikari
Caldari
Imperium Technologies
Firmus Ixion
|
Posted - 2007.03.11 22:48:00 -
[2]
Sounds like someone just got doomsdayed.
Oh no! Someone forces you to use actual tactics rather than just sit 200 ships on a gate waiting for the enemies to warp in and die?
--23 Member--
EVE-Trance Radio--The EVE Textboard |
Celeste Coeval
|
Posted - 2007.03.11 22:49:00 -
[3]
 Originally by: Enkryption
No, I mean it! Destroying a 200 man fleet in the blink of an eye is just completely awesome! I mean god forbid there actually be a battle! Why when you can destroy that many ships with the push of a single button on a single ship!? Awesome!
Good job on this one CCP.
Cool isn't it. what did you expect something with DOOMSDAY DEVICE in the name to do anyway? Here's a tip try using some captital ships.
"If you are out to describe the truth, leave elegance to the tailor."
-Albert Einstein |
ToxicFire
Phoenix Knights
|
Posted - 2007.03.11 22:49:00 -
[4]
I belive theres a phrase for this kinda situation ummmm PWNED!!! yes thats it. Yeash if your gonna sit around long enough for a titan to fire up the doomsday your quite stupid
Join the save Stargate SG1 Campaign Today!
http://savestargatesg1.com/
|
DarkZaion
Destructive Influence
Band of Brothers
|
Posted - 2007.03.11 22:51:00 -
[5]
u must be a goon that just got dd'ed ...
if u cant handle 0.0 then get the f... out
or stop whining
|
Crumplecorn
Gallente
Eve Cluster Explorations
|
Posted - 2007.03.11 22:52:00 -
[6]
EXTREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEME!
-
If you go into your options menu, there's a difficulty slider. Put that all the way over to the easiest setting and you'll be fine. |
Malthros Zenobia
Caldari Independent Navy Reserve
|
Posted - 2007.03.11 22:53:00 -
[7]
If having a ship that can kill fleets in a single shot is wrong, I don't want to be right.
Originally by: kieron
The Carrier was never intended to be a solo OMGWTF mission-farming PWNmobile.
|
Vincent R
|
Posted - 2007.03.11 22:54:00 -
[8]
The doomsday devices are such an amazingly unbalanced concept. I don't even go on our fleet ops anymore, because CCP has taken all the fun out of fleet combat. This happens almost EVERY TIME you try to have a fleet battle these days. Either there is a deadlock, because the enemy camps the gates and it's suicide to jump in (you'll just get DD'd) or you actually try to engage and just die without a fight.
Also, I'd like to say **** you to all the "LOL! Sounds like SOMEONE just got doomsdayed!" people. There is NO SKILL AT ALL involved in pressing a button and killing 250 ships in one blow, WITHOUT RISK TO YOURSELF OR YOUR FLEET.
CCP, the titans are making it impossible for new players to survive in 0.0. You want people to come out of empire, yet with your actions you are cementing the old powers. You are destroying all fun in your game for those without titans!!!
|
Vincent R
|
Posted - 2007.03.11 22:55:00 -
[9]
Originally by: ToxicFire
I belive theres a phrase for this kinda situation ummmm PWNED!!! yes thats it. Yeash if your gonna sit around long enough for a titan to fire up the doomsday your quite stupid
Have you ever been in a fleet battle? There is often several MINUTES of lag.
|
Brokeback Jim
|
Posted - 2007.03.11 22:57:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Dark Shikari
Sounds like someone just got doomsdayed.
Oh no! Someone forces you to use actual tactics rather than just sit 200 ships on a gate waiting for the enemies to warp in and die?
If the game actually worked and there was no lag, that'd be possible.
But it isn't. The game is sucking, now.
|
ToxicFire
Phoenix Knights
|
Posted - 2007.03.11 22:58:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Vincent R
The doomsday devices are such an amazingly unbalanced concept. I don't even go on our fleet ops anymore, because CCP has taken all the fun out of fleet combat. This happens almost EVERY TIME you try to have a fleet battle these days. Either there is a deadlock, because the enemy camps the gates and it's suicide to jump in (you'll just get DD'd) or you actually try to engage and just die without a fight.
Also, I'd like to say **** you to all the "LOL! Sounds like SOMEONE just got doomsdayed!" people. There is NO SKILL AT ALL involved in pressing a button and killing 250 ships in one blow, WITHOUT RISK TO YOURSELF OR YOUR FLEET.
CCP, the titans are making it impossible for new players to survive in 0.0. You want people to come out of empire, yet with your actions you are cementing the old powers. You are destroying all fun in your game for those without titans!!!
That has to be the biggest pile of crap i've heard on the forums in a long while, how does newbies getting into 0.0 relate to titans and DD's. Yuh the without risk to your own fleet part I dunno if u've ever noticed but DD's are indiscriminate. Also DD's can only cycle one an hour, use a bluff tactic to make them fire off early then send the main body of the fleet in.
Join the save Stargate SG1 Campaign Today!
http://savestargatesg1.com/
|
Marcus Aurelius
Colossus Security Services
|
Posted - 2007.03.11 22:59:00 -
[12]
Doomsdays require more work, more thought and more tactical discipline then having a 500 man blob crash the node does, right ?
Doomsdays can't stop a good fleet for more then a minute. It however stops thoughtless zergs quite nicely.
|
Celeste Coeval
|
Posted - 2007.03.11 23:00:00 -
[13]
Thank you CCP the anti-blob module actually works!!!
"If you are out to describe the truth, leave elegance to the tailor."
-Albert Einstein |
Crumplecorn
Gallente
Eve Cluster Explorations
|
Posted - 2007.03.11 23:01:00 -
[14]
Note that I am speaking here as a person who knows sweet **** all about fleet combat, seeing as how I avoid it and all.
Nonetheless, the impression I have is that while DDDs are an attempt to discourage blobs, the other mechanics in the game like POSspam and focused fire not only encourage but actually require blobbing in order to succeed.
DDDs may actually serve a good purpose in ended the use of blobs if and when other tactics become as viable.
-
If you go into your options menu, there's a difficulty slider. Put that all the way over to the easiest setting and you'll be fine. |
Brokeback Jim
|
Posted - 2007.03.11 23:02:00 -
[15]
Originally by: ToxicFire
Originally by: Vincent R
The doomsday devices are such an amazingly unbalanced concept. I don't even go on our fleet ops anymore, because CCP has taken all the fun out of fleet combat. This happens almost EVERY TIME you try to have a fleet battle these days. Either there is a deadlock, because the enemy camps the gates and it's suicide to jump in (you'll just get DD'd) or you actually try to engage and just die without a fight.
Also, I'd like to say **** you to all the "LOL! Sounds like SOMEONE just got doomsdayed!" people. There is NO SKILL AT ALL involved in pressing a button and killing 250 ships in one blow, WITHOUT RISK TO YOURSELF OR YOUR FLEET.
CCP, the titans are making it impossible for new players to survive in 0.0. You want people to come out of empire, yet with your actions you are cementing the old powers. You are destroying all fun in your game for those without titans!!!
That has to be the biggest pile of crap i've heard on the forums in a long while, how does newbies getting into 0.0 relate to titans and DD's. Yuh the without risk to your own fleet part I dunno if u've ever noticed but DD's are indiscriminate. Also DD's can only cycle one an hour, use a bluff tactic to make them fire off early then send the main body of the fleet in.
5 titans mean - you could remote DD every 12 minutes ...
10 titans mean - you could remote DD every 6 minutes ...
20 titans mean - you could remote DD every 3 minutes ...
Whether now or later, they need fixed.
They'll probably wait until the Coalition is crushed under their weight, though.
To be honest, I could really care less about them. I just wish the Devs would comment on them.
|
Joan Smith
Caldari
|
Posted - 2007.03.11 23:06:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Vincent R
The doomsday devices are such an amazingly unbalanced concept.
Also, I'd like to say **** you to all the "LOL! Sounds like SOMEONE just got doomsdayed!" people. There is NO SKILL AT ALL involved in pressing a button and killing 250 ships in one blow, WITHOUT RISK TO YOURSELF OR YOUR FLEET.
hey stupid goon
DD does needs skill and lots of it..and yes lots of skill points soo stfu.
whats that no risk to ur self ? wts clue ofc there is titan pretty much def less for 1 hr
and no risk to ur fleet??? can i remind u DD kills everything in area!!! jeeezzz
|
Turin Shroud
Gallente
Fermentation Process
|
Posted - 2007.03.11 23:07:00 -
[17]
Apart from BoB didnt remote detonate the titan was on the field with 240 hostiles along with the BoB fleet.
|
Andriela
|
Posted - 2007.03.11 23:07:00 -
[18]
remote DD is an exploit. Really don't know why GM is not aware! 
|
AlleyKat
Gallente
The Avalon Foundation
|
Posted - 2007.03.11 23:09:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Crumplecorn
EXTREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEME!
Extreeeeeeeme! linky
January's Film |
OMGROFL CEO
Amarr
OMG ROFL
|
Posted - 2007.03.11 23:09:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Vincent R
The doomsday devices are such an amazingly unbalanced concept. I don't even go on our fleet ops anymore, because CCP has taken all the fun out of fleet combat. This happens almost EVERY TIME you try to have a fleet battle these days. Either there is a deadlock, because the enemy camps the gates and it's suicide to jump in (you'll just get DD'd) or you actually try to engage and just die without a fight.
Also, I'd like to say **** you to all the "LOL! Sounds like SOMEONE just got doomsdayed!" people. There is NO SKILL AT ALL involved in pressing a button and killing 250 ships in one blow, WITHOUT RISK TO YOURSELF OR YOUR FLEET.
CCP, the titans are making it impossible for new players to survive in 0.0. You want people to come out of empire, yet with your actions you are cementing the old powers. You are destroying all fun in your game for those without titans!!!
also no skill required to node crash with 250 tech 1 fitted frigs. get some skills noobs.
omgrofl since 1337 |
Jex Jast
Go for the booty
|
Posted - 2007.03.11 23:09:00 -
[21]
I think it's clear that Titans are like Death Stars. They can't be allowed to exist, but they're possible.
Unfortunately, the entire way Eve is set up forbids some heroic mission to destroy one while it's being made, or once it's finished. Meaning if someone has the money and resources, they will get a titan and that's that.
If CCP wants to make something that takes hundreds upon hundreds of ships to destroy, they ought not to have placed it before making extremely efficient nodes throughout the universe.
I've said it before, but I'll repeat myself. Enough new content until you get the hardware and software issues fixed. And I mean FIXED, not "explained away by some stupid coverstory", sidestepped, or half-patched.
CCP, you've got a significant job on your hands. If I'm trying to sell somebody a house that has broken windows, do I add an extra chimney, an indoor swimming pool, and a tennis court? No, I fix the ******* windows.
-----
Don't add a pool to sell a house. Fix the windows.
Fixed it. Happy? |
Crumplecorn
Gallente
Eve Cluster Explorations
|
Posted - 2007.03.11 23:11:00 -
[22]
Edited by: Crumplecorn on 11/03/2007 23:08:49
Originally by: AlleyKat
Originally by: Crumplecorn
EXTREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEME!
Extreeeeeeeme! linky
Not supposed to link them on the forum D:
Funny thing it, last time I saw that I didn't know what ship that was, whose that face was, or what the whole thing was about.
-
If you go into your options menu, there's a difficulty slider. Put that all the way over to the easiest setting and you'll be fine. |
Phrixus Zephyr
D00M.
Triumvirate.
|
Posted - 2007.03.11 23:12:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Dark Shikari
Sounds like someone just got doomsdayed.
Oh no! Someone forces you to use actual tactics rather than just sit 200 ships on a gate waiting for the enemies to warp in and die?
No offence but what exactly do FiX do? Use amazing split fleet tactics to minamalize DD losses?
No, you don't, because it generally doesn't work. So what do you do? You get in your 100 man fleet, wait for your pal to DD their 200 man fleet and then you warp in once you outnumber them.
Originally by: Ice Conch
In soviet russia, soap drops you!
|
Dark Shikari
Caldari
Imperium Technologies
Firmus Ixion
|
Posted - 2007.03.11 23:13:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Brokeback Jim
Originally by: Dark Shikari
Sounds like someone just got doomsdayed.
Oh no! Someone forces you to use actual tactics rather than just sit 200 ships on a gate waiting for the enemies to warp in and die?
If the game actually worked and there was no lag, that'd be possible.
But it isn't. The game is sucking, now.
I've gotten hit by a lagged-out Doomsday too.
Welcome to the club
--23 Member--
EVE-Trance Radio--The EVE Textboard |
Squirrrel
Gallente
|
Posted - 2007.03.11 23:14:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Enkryption
No, I mean it! Destroying a 200 man fleet in the blink of an eye is just completely awesome! I mean god forbid there actually be a battle! Why when you can destroy that many ships with the push of a single button on a single ship!? Awesome!
Good job on this one CCP.
There WAS a battle. For whatever reason you were too close to a big ship that has a big stick to whack you over the head with.
God forbid people have to employ tactics in a game!
|
Major Stormer
Caldari
Celestial Apocalypse
Insurgency
|
Posted - 2007.03.11 23:14:00 -
[26]
while my experance with titans is looking at strike in the MN5N astroid belt, it seems pretty crappy that you can wipe out a entire fleet without bothering to fight. I mean, wars aside and all, the troops are coming to have fun, and with titans the only person having fun is the titan pilot.
The 2 fleets that turned up to shoot eachother got no fun at all.
Originally by: Graalum
Thats a caldari juggernaut torpedo fired by an ibis.
|
Liklin
Minmatar
Republic Military School
|
Posted - 2007.03.11 23:14:00 -
[27]
Originally by: DarkZaion
u must be a goon that just got dd'ed ...
if u cant handle 0.0 then get the f... out
or stop whining
If everyone played on a level playing field that "might" be a valid point, however since some people are simply "special" in this game, thats not the case is it........
|
Kazuo Ishiguro
|
Posted - 2007.03.11 23:18:00 -
[28]
The skill lies in defending the assembly array from attack and gathering the immense resources required to construct one, while all the time there are (probably) people intriguing against you. The war wagon provides an interesting historical parallel: Originally by: Wikipedia
The first victory against the Wagenburg at the Battle of Tachov showed that the best ways to defeat a Wagenburg were to either prevent it from being erected in the first place, or to get the men inside of it to charge out of it, by means of a feint retreat. Thus, the fortification would lose its prime advantage.
So far, those are the only means by which any Titan has ever been destroyed - the second tactic is comparable to attacking while the pilot is logged off.
------
Top speed calculation spreadsheet - feedback welcome :) Army of doom headcount: 26,045 |
Kerfira
|
Posted - 2007.03.11 23:19:00 -
[29]
Edited by: Kerfira on 11/03/2007 23:23:09
Originally by: Enkryption
No, I mean it! Destroying a 200 man fleet in the blink of an eye is just completely awesome! I mean god forbid there actually be a battle! Why when you can destroy that many ships with the push of a single button on a single ship!? Awesome!
Good job on this one CCP.
Yeah, it is. Why don't you build one yourself instead of just whining???
Then you could use the jump-bridge ability to get your fleet in without the risk. You could use a DD too. My guess is that you wouldn't whine over that.
If I understand the situation correctly, your main characters fleet jumped into a system (why don't you post with your main?), got lagged out, and DD'd??
First of all, if you knew there was a Titan there, why did you choose such a stupid strategy?
Secondly, If you jump in 200+ ships, you KNOW there'll be lag, so again a stupid decision to jump.
Third, that Titan probably cost (much) more than your fleet combined. So, yes, it should be able to PWN you when you present yourself gift-wrapped like that.
Fourth, from BoB's killboard (I assume that's the DD blast you're talking about), it seems like the Titan got a good shot at you with very few friendly casualties. This indicates they planned and setup a trap, and you walked straight into it.
In conclusion: Your - Own - Fault !!!!
General advice: Stop whining! |
Brokeback Jim
|
Posted - 2007.03.11 23:25:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Dark Shikari
Originally by: Brokeback Jim
Originally by: Dark Shikari
Sounds like someone just got doomsdayed.
Oh no! Someone forces you to use actual tactics rather than just sit 200 ships on a gate waiting for the enemies to warp in and die?
If the game actually worked and there was no lag, that'd be possible.
But it isn't. The game is sucking, now.
I've gotten hit by a lagged-out Doomsday too.
Welcome to the club
Learn to read, Pro Forum dude.
I never said you didn't get hit by it. I said lag is too prevalent to really work around it.
Which you just added more evidence of....
What's funny is even the Star Wars Death Star was only killing one or two ships per shot.....:)
|
Presidente Gallente
|
Posted - 2007.03.11 23:25:00 -
[31]
Originally by: Vincent R
The doomsday devices are such an amazingly unbalanced concept.
The only thing what's unbalanced is that a Titan shakes like a mininature model when ganked.
|
Frygok
Minmatar
Black Lance
Against ALL Authorities
|
Posted - 2007.03.11 23:26:00 -
[32]
My alliance has a Titan. I am still not for Titans.
As someone a few posts up mentioned, what happens when we have 20 titans? Or 50?
Fleet battles will be non-existant(if nodes ever allow fleet battles at all these days), and it will come down to those individuals who have played a lifetime, and their titans.
It seriously removes the average EVE player from the battles, which is a shame, in my eyes. And you don't just gank a titan out of nowhere. I doubt a node could even hold the number of attackers and defenders, if a titan was to be attacked.
It would be great if we could get past the "OMG, we just got DD'ed" and "LOL, you got pwned, stop whining" and actually had a sensible discussion on whether this is the way EVE is meant to go. 1-shot battles, and that's the end of an evening of PVP. There will only come more titans as time goes on. Is that the way CCP wants this game to evolve? Is it the way the players want it to evolve?
|
Last Mohicans
|
Posted - 2007.03.11 23:30:00 -
[33]
from actually LOOKING at the killboards (instead of just yapping about it) there were 2 fleet fights and one DD blast.
You got pwnd own up to it. It's only a computer game.
|
Jex Jast
Go for the booty
|
Posted - 2007.03.11 23:32:00 -
[34]
Originally by: Brokeback Jim
Originally by: Dark Shikari
Originally by: Brokeback Jim
Originally by: Dark Shikari
Sounds like someone just got doomsdayed.
Oh no! Someone forces you to use actual tactics rather than just sit 200 ships on a gate waiting for the enemies to warp in and die?
If the game actually worked and there was no lag, that'd be possible.
But it isn't. The game is sucking, now.
I've gotten hit by a lagged-out Doomsday too.
Welcome to the club
Learn to read, Pro Forum dude.
I never said you didn't get hit by it. I said lag is too prevalent to really work around it.
Which you just added more evidence of....
What's funny is even the Star Wars Death Star was only killing one or two ships per shot.....:)
Okay, first, I think DS was agreeing with you...
Second, the Death Star could only kill a few ships at a time, but it could kill billions of people on a planet. Therefore my analogy still stands. QED.
-----
Don't add a pool to sell a house. Fix the windows.
Fixed it. Happy? |
Stitcher
Caldari
J.I.T. Enterprises
Freelancer Alliance
|
Posted - 2007.03.11 23:33:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Jex Jast
Unfortunately, the entire way Eve is set up forbids some heroic mission to destroy one while it's being made...
I can think of a couple of alliances who'd disagree with you on that point...
***
|
hybridundertaker
Amarr
Beagle Corp
|
Posted - 2007.03.11 23:33:00 -
[36]
i fully endorse titans and doomsday devices. I hate big slow laggy blobs, it should be reduced into wrecks anyway. Actually i think it is rediculous to see all those pods after ddd so me thinks there should be something like backfire ot aftershock or residual radiation or whatever that would do enought damage to kill the pods also.
However i can say that as i dont wanna go shoot anyposes or large blobs and such plus. If i wanted to dominate the universe in ibises id probably be against it.
EvE +NLINE - T+TALHELLDEATH SUPPORTER |
Jex Jast
Go for the booty
|
Posted - 2007.03.11 23:36:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Stitcher
Originally by: Jex Jast
Unfortunately, the entire way Eve is set up forbids some heroic mission to destroy one while it's being made...
I can think of a couple of alliances who'd disagree with you on that point...
Pray tell. I'm not challenging you, I'm looking to gain advantage through knowledge.
-----
Don't add a pool to sell a house. Fix the windows.
Fixed it. Happy? |
Lithalnas
Amarr
Hadean Drive Yards
Archaean Cooperative
|
Posted - 2007.03.11 23:36:00 -
[38]
I think that the more titans that are launched, there will come a time when a titan loss is like a carrier loss, somewhat common yet rare enough to post of the forums. Titans are very skill intensive and expensive, meaning only a handful of alliance leaders can fly them, this means that if one was to target those leaders, force their titan to be online and flying from dt to dt allways having aggro, the persistant enemy can gank it when its pilot logs off due to lack of sleep/food.
How does this change your tactics? Dont blob, run around in highly mobile squads and spread the battlefront out over many systems. I think there was a blog on blobing that stated that this is what they wanted.
-------------
Hadean Drive Yards
The EvE inflation, 80 Macro miners, 1.5b isk/day |
Mr Mozzie
Eve University
Ivy League
|
Posted - 2007.03.11 23:37:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Enkryption
No, I mean it! Destroying a 200 man fleet in the blink of an eye is just completely awesome! I mean god forbid there actually be a battle! Why when you can destroy that many ships with the push of a single button on a single ship!? Awesome!
Good job on this one CCP.
hahaha, I saw this complaint and there wasnt a post on the alliance forums, so i went surfing killboards, looking at the BoB killboard, i can see the goons didnt actually crash the node this time, so what you really meant to say was, DAMN CCP STOP MAKING THESE NODES SO DAMN UNCRASHABLE!
oh and btw, looks like the DD only got 80 of you, so what happened to the other 200 that died??
I seriously cant believe BoB hasnt made a forum post saying OMGWTFPWN we killed 290 and lost 2. That has to be the most decisive fleet victory of the war so far, and the coalition make a battle report for we OMGWTFPWN a carrier!!
Or is that just the different standards that we see on the forums between the coalition and BoB+friends?
|
Malthros Zenobia
Caldari Independent Navy Reserve
|
Posted - 2007.03.11 23:47:00 -
[40]
Titans will never become as common as dreads and carriers simply due to the fact that they take such vast amounts of resources to build.
Originally by: kieron
The Carrier was never intended to be a solo OMGWTF mission-farming PWNmobile.
|
Crumplecorn
Gallente
Eve Cluster Explorations
|
Posted - 2007.03.11 23:50:00 -
[41]
Originally by: Malthros Zenobia
Titans will never become as common as dreads and carriers simply due to the fact that they take such vast amounts of resources to build.
Can I quote you on this in, oh, say, 6 months time?
-
If you go into your options menu, there's a difficulty slider. Put that all the way over to the easiest setting and you'll be fine. |
Jex Jast
Go for the booty
|
Posted - 2007.03.11 23:51:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Lithalnas
I think that the more titans that are launched, there will come a time when a titan loss is like a carrier loss, somewhat common yet rare enough to post of the forums. Titans are very skill intensive and expensive, meaning only a handful of alliance leaders can fly them, this means that if one was to target those leaders, force their titan to be online and flying from dt to dt allways having aggro, the persistant enemy can gank it when its pilot logs off due to lack of sleep/food.
How does this change your tactics? Dont blob, run around in highly mobile squads and spread the battlefront out over many systems. I think there was a blog on blobing that stated that this is what they wanted.
Seems like a good idea, if you've got enough people who have enough time to spend hours on end playing Eve. And by hours on end I really mean 10+, because I do play for hours, but anyway.
The only issue I see here is if the pilot pulls a "Korean-gamers-who-drank-energy-drinks-for-a-week-to-avoid-sleep-then-died-due-to-game" stunt, and tries so hard to protect their in-game investment that they hurt themself IRL. I don't see it as being impossible.
-----
Don't add a pool to sell a house. Fix the windows.
Fixed it. Happy? |
Princess Minnie
|
Posted - 2007.03.12 00:12:00 -
[43]
Originally by: Lithalnas
I think that the more titans that are launched, there will come a time when a titan loss is like a carrier loss, somewhat common yet rare enough to post of the forums. Titans are very skill intensive and expensive, meaning only a handful of alliance leaders can fly them, this means that if one was to target those leaders, force their titan to be online and flying from dt to dt allways having aggro, the persistant enemy can gank it when its pilot logs off due to lack of sleep/food.
How does this change your tactics? Dont blob, run around in highly mobile squads and spread the battlefront out over many systems. I think there was a blog on blobing that stated that this is what they wanted.
dude, this post makes no sense whatsoever.
a) a loan carrier kill isnt enough to post on the forums anymore, and a titan loss will never be like a carrier loss, for the simple fact that you need 50 bill isk worth of minerals, so the logistics of mining and hauling is still a huge effort. Sure there will be more titans in game, but they will always be valued.
b) how do you always agro a titan? the pilot sits the titan inside a POS shield for 15 minutes and then logs? or flys to a ss and cloaks? there is no way you can keep a titan agro'd. And even if you want to do the didgy shoot his cans to keep him agro'd exploit, the cans still disappear after 1-2 hours.
c) how does this change your tactic? well if you tactic was to run 200-500 man gangs through gates and try to lag the node so much that it crashes, then yes you are in trouble when it doesnt crash. All other tactics it doesnt change it too much.
|
Izzy Pol
Fear and Loathing in LoneTrek
|
Posted - 2007.03.12 00:21:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Enkryption
No, I mean it! Destroying a 200 man fleet in the blink of an eye is just completely awesome! I mean god forbid there actually be a battle! Why when you can destroy that many ships with the push of a single button on a single ship!? Awesome!
Good job on this one CCP.
You lost over 200 ships and the DD was responsible for 80 of those.
That means 120 ships were killed by the opposing fleet. No matter how you try to shift blame the fact is you got schooled. Maybe you should accept that your own tactics and abilities were at fault, not CCP's.
Theres a lot of merit in the calls for titan changes but as we can see from the above, the titan was only 40% of the story.
Skilless zerg blobs can't win all the time
|
Kaalen
Caldari
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
|
Posted - 2007.03.12 01:06:00 -
[45]
Edited by: Kaalen on 12/03/2007 01:03:07
Your fleet got owned by a doomsday device because a doomsday device is an anti-blob weapon, if you're facing a titan split your fleet up so that if you DO get hit you don't lose everyone. Be aligned to warp out should you fear a DDD is on it's way. Do SOMETHING to lure the thing into launching it's attack without taking significant losses and the rest of your fleet is safe until it charges up again.
EVE battles are not supposed to be two sides gathering up as many ships as possible and throwing them at each other to see who wins and I for one am thankful that there is a deterrant for this tactic, as there is no skill involved there at all.
You lost because you were outsmarted, not because a titan is an I-WIN button. Deal with it.
|
Gamesguy
Amarr
E X O D U S
Imperial Republic Of the North
|
Posted - 2007.03.12 02:38:00 -
[46]
Originally by: Kaalen
Edited by: Kaalen on 12/03/2007 01:03:07
Your fleet got owned by a doomsday device because a doomsday device is an anti-blob weapon, if you're facing a titan split your fleet up so that if you DO get hit you don't lose everyone. Be aligned to warp out should you fear a DDD is on it's way. Do SOMETHING to lure the thing into launching it's attack without taking significant losses and the rest of your fleet is safe until it charges up again.
EVE battles are not supposed to be two sides gathering up as many ships as possible and throwing them at each other to see who wins and I for one am thankful that there is a deterrant for this tactic, as there is no skill involved there at all.
You lost because you were outsmarted, not because a titan is an I-WIN button. Deal with it.
I love posts like these with all sorts of hypotheticals on what you should do.
1. Fleets are laggy, most of the time the lag is bad enough that you cannot warp out despite having mashed the button and being aligned.
2. Split fleets rarely work, lag means the enemy can and will warp in their own fleet on one half of your fleet to pwn it, while your other half gets DDed.
3. Blobs are the only way to take down POSes. You cant take down a deathstar POS without a fleet of capitals and a fleet of support to defend the capitals. Let me know when your roaming gangs can claim soverignty...oh wait, they cant.
"Blob less" is possibly the dumbest reply ever. How do you propose we take down POSes and enemy blobs without our own blob? Magic?
|
SumDum
Freelancer Alliance
|
Posted - 2007.03.12 02:48:00 -
[47]
Quote:
No, I mean it! Destroying a 200 man fleet in the blink of an eye is just completely awesome! I mean god forbid there actually be a battle! Why when you can destroy that many ships with the push of a single button on a single ship!? Awesome!
Good job on this one CCP.
It was said before, I'll say it again. You were pwned. Want to pwn too?
How to pwn
How to pwn
|
Hllaxiu
Shiva
Morsus Mihi
|
Posted - 2007.03.12 03:11:00 -
[48]
Originally by: Lithalnas
How does this change your tactics? Dont blob, run around in highly mobile squads and spread the battlefront out over many systems. I think there was a blog on blobing that stated that this is what they wanted.
Gank squads do not effect territorial claims. "blobs" do. This is the way EVE has been designed. If CCP did not intend for blobs to be necessary to claim territory, then they have failed horribly at game design.
---
Our greatest glory is not in never failing, but in rising up every time we fail. - Emerson |
qvacky
AUS Corporation
CORE.
|
Posted - 2007.03.12 03:13:00 -
[49]
Originally by: Kaalen
Edited by: Kaalen on 12/03/2007 01:03:07
Your fleet got owned by a doomsday device because a doomsday device is an anti-blob weapon, if you're facing a titan split your fleet up so that if you DO get hit you don't lose everyone. Be aligned to warp out should you fear a DDD is on it's way. Do SOMETHING to lure the thing into launching it's attack without taking significant losses and the rest of your fleet is safe until it charges up again.
EVE battles are not supposed to be two sides gathering up as many ships as possible and throwing them at each other to see who wins and I for one am thankful that there is a deterrant for this tactic, as there is no skill involved there at all.
You lost because you were outsmarted, not because a titan is an I-WIN button. Deal with it.
Ok then genius, what wonderful suggestions do you have on how to kill poses without a blob?
Its all nice and dandy to say 'lolz stop blobbing then,' but the fact of the matter is that its currently the only way to really achieve anything with the way the game mechanics are set up.
|
Arcadia1701
Gallente
Federation of Freedom Fighters
Executive Outcomes
|
Posted - 2007.03.12 03:22:00 -
[50]
Use a capital blob :D, the new blob fashion. But seriously the DDs and titans are fine. Maybe if we end up haveing 40, 50, 70 + titans then CCP can look at re-ajusting them. But for now things seem ok.
My sig>
**Post with your main or STFU ** |
Xeliya
Dark-Rising
Fallen Souls
|
Posted - 2007.03.12 03:56:00 -
[51]
Edited by: Xeliya on 12/03/2007 03:53:00
DD's are fine, if you didn't use blobs of 300 people then they wouldn't be so effective. The time training the skills, time to build, logistics to build and the cost and logistics to move a titan is beyond your comprehension. Only thing that needs to be changed is a capital warp scrambler to scramble MS/Titans but the scrams can only fit on other MS/Titans.
And you guys knew BoB would be sieging there and if you didn't your intel blows so why weren't you in system ahead of time?
----------
|
James Duar
Merch Industrial
We Are Nice Guys
|
Posted - 2007.03.12 04:21:00 -
[52]
Guys guys!! There's nothing wrong with Titans! You should get your own Titan! And move to the UK next to the cluster so you can warp out w/o lag! And don't use blobs to attack POS's!
However, in the interests of being slightly more constructive, I will post two ideas:
1. Could Titans be made bigger? Like, a lot bigger. Like, spans multiple grids and can only DDD in one of them bigger?
2. Can we allow skill requirement reductions to fly ships by docking multiple pods in them? Strictly super-capital only, but ensures everyone who can bankroll it can have a Titan (seeing as there's virtually 0 chance of any individual ever owning a Titan independantly).
|
DiuxDium
Loot
Privateer Alliance
|
Posted - 2007.03.12 04:26:00 -
[53]
Heh, Heh. Triple D's.
|
Terrak2
The Aforementioned
|
Posted - 2007.03.12 04:26:00 -
[54]
You mean blobbing is VERY slowly losing its status as the be-all end-all of EVE?
Oh darn!
I'm hard to come by like a straight guy workin' at Starbucks. |
nickky01
The Collective
Against ALL Authorities
|
Posted - 2007.03.12 04:32:00 -
[55]
yeah i pretty much only read the first page of this thread, but here's the problem with titans.
there is no problem with titans.
yes, i have been doomsdayed, i lost a fully T2 fitted mega.
the problem is the lag.
from what i heard today, IAC and friends jumped 200+ gangmembers into 90 bob camping a gate, and every IAC/friend told me they could not activate modules the first 5+ minutes of the fight, while the bob fleet pounded on them, then they got DD.
"yeah, sucks for you jumping 200 into 90, shoulda expected that" i said. "they didn't have to load the grid like you did" i casually added.
you fix the lag, you fix the MAJORITY of titan problems. BS's can MWD out of bubbles and warp, you can activate modules (such as DC's and hardners, the only way to survive a direct DD blast) and even attempt to shoot back.
until then yeah, titans suck.
my opinion anyways
|
Xeliya
Dark-Rising
Fallen Souls
|
Posted - 2007.03.12 04:38:00 -
[56]
Originally by: nickky01
yeah i pretty much only read the first page of this thread, but here's the problem with titans.
there is no problem with titans.
yes, i have been doomsdayed, i lost a fully T2 fitted mega.
the problem is the lag.
from what i heard today, IAC and friends jumped 200+ gangmembers into 90 bob camping a gate, and every IAC/friend told me they could not activate modules the first 5+ minutes of the fight, while the bob fleet pounded on them, then they got DD.
"yeah, sucks for you jumping 200 into 90, shoulda expected that" i said. "they didn't have to load the grid like you did" i casually added.
you fix the lag, you fix the MAJORITY of titan problems. BS's can MWD out of bubbles and warp, you can activate modules (such as DC's and hardners, the only way to survive a direct DD blast) and even attempt to shoot back.
QFT I can still remember the AAA DD on us and pretty much everyone who died was lagged out.
----------
|
Cadela Fria
Amarr
Eye of God
X-PACT
|
Posted - 2007.03.12 04:50:00 -
[57]
I may not be the first one to say this, BUT!
To all the people who say the DD is unbalanced:
SO - FECKING - WHAT?!?!
It's a doomsday device!! It's SUPPOSED to be unbalanced. It's SUPPOSED to turn you until small chunks of wreck!
Why does every single thing have to be balanced anyway???
As a matter of fact, the DD IS balanced. You know why? Because ALL DD's regardless of race, will wipe you, your ship, your fleet and probably a lot of other things out too. So quit yer yapping and face the music!
Knowledge is a priviledge, not a right
|
James Duar
Merch Industrial
We Are Nice Guys
|
Posted - 2007.03.12 04:51:00 -
[58]
Originally by: Xeliya
Originally by: nickky01
yeah i pretty much only read the first page of this thread, but here's the problem with titans.
there is no problem with titans.
yes, i have been doomsdayed, i lost a fully T2 fitted mega.
the problem is the lag.
from what i heard today, IAC and friends jumped 200+ gangmembers into 90 bob camping a gate, and every IAC/friend told me they could not activate modules the first 5+ minutes of the fight, while the bob fleet pounded on them, then they got DD.
"yeah, sucks for you jumping 200 into 90, shoulda expected that" i said. "they didn't have to load the grid like you did" i casually added.
you fix the lag, you fix the MAJORITY of titan problems. BS's can MWD out of bubbles and warp, you can activate modules (such as DC's and hardners, the only way to survive a direct DD blast) and even attempt to shoot back.
QFT I can still remember the AAA DD on us and pretty much everyone who died was lagged out.
I'm seconding this QFT. If the lag isn't bad then you can flip on the tank/warp before it gets you. Doesn't solve some of the balance issues multiple Titans might bring but definitely would greatly fix most of the complaints.
|
Srvin Taisorgky
|
Posted - 2007.03.12 05:17:00 -
[59]
Having never been fortunate enough to see one in action, do they also destroy whole stations en masse? That would be a great isk sink and would enliven the 0.0 space wars. Doomsday devices exploding everything back into the stone age. (pictures please) Then we could start to conquer the universe over again in ibises.
And if they don't do this, may I suggest microbe warfare -- the type that attack the structures of space so that they disentergrate (another great isk sink) over time ( like 2 days) and planetary collision warfare where you change the orbit of a planet, asteroid or moon and let it smash into and destroy these ugly unnatural structures.
And where is the back to nature movent in the storylines? Doesn't anyone realize that these structures are polluting space?
|
RedFall
Irreligion
|
Posted - 2007.03.12 05:27:00 -
[60]
I saw DDD's in the title of this thread and I got a bit excited. So I clicked on the link. And then my excitement vanished. Bleh. We need more threads on triple-d's and less threads on doomsday devices I say.
|
Depp Knight
Evolution
Band of Brothers
|
Posted - 2007.03.12 06:20:00 -
[61]
I still believe that Titans should have a DD rof nerf. Everything else is fine
|
James Duar
Merch Industrial
We Are Nice Guys
|
Posted - 2007.03.12 06:25:00 -
[62]
Edited by: James Duar on 12/03/2007 06:23:13
If the DD could only be fired once per 24 hours or something, then it could easily be a lot more powerful.
But I'm kinda fixated now on my make them HUGE idea.
EDIT: Oooh - or or - make the DD do NO damage to ships that are right next to the Titan, sort of "getting under the shields stuff"
|
Darpz
Rampage Eternal
Ka-Tet
|
Posted - 2007.03.12 06:30:00 -
[63]
Right now bob is 2-3 Months away from running around on weekends with 60+ Carrier/Dreads 5-10+ Moms 5-10 Titans with no support fleet and tbh I can't think of a way to counter this short of your own fleet that matches this.
Titan should of been a super dread, like the mothership is a super carrier.
How I would of done it:
Remove from the Titan:
Gang Mod Ability (this is the MS/Carriers Role)
DD (stupidest Idea ever)
New Modules
Advanced Siege Modules - All the damage boosting effects of a Siege Module but the ship keeps its Tracking as well as Locking Speed. and has a 5 Min Cycle Time instead of a 10Min for a Dread
Avatar:
10H 8T
4M
8L
Amarr Titan Skill Bonuses:
10% reduction in Capital Energy Turret capacitor use per level
5% bonus to Capital Energy Turret ROF Per Level
7.5% bonus to gang membersÆ capacitor recharge rate per level
99% reduction in CPU need for Capital Jump Bridge Array
99% reduction in CPU need for Clone Vat Bay
99% reduction in CPU need for Advanced Siege Module
Immune to all forms of Electronic Warfare
Least Utility do to lack of mids but best Armor Tank and close to the best DPS but can't Change Damage type
Leviathan
9H 7L
8M
5L
5% bonus to Citadel Missile kinetic damage per level
5% bonus to Citadel Launcher rate of fire per level
7.5% bonus to gang membersÆ maximum shield HP per level
99% reduction in CPU need for Capital Jump Bridge Array
99% reduction in CPU need for Clone Vat Bay
99% reduction in CPU need for Advanced Siege Module
Immune to all forms of Electronic Warfare
Very Strong Shield Tank, DPS is middle of the Pack but it can Change Damage type if needed for a 25% damage hit if needed which is a plus
Erebus
9H 7T
6M
7L
5% bonus to Capital Hybrid Turret damage per level
75% to Drone Damage Per Level
7.5% bonus to gang membersÆ maximum armor HP per level
99% reduction in CPU need for Capital Jump Bridge Array
99% reduction in CPU need for Clone Vat Bay
99% reduction in CPU need for Advanced Siege Module
Immune to all forms of Electronic Warfare
Lowest DPS of the group but best utility of the group. and has the ablity to shield tank and gank to be able to Gank if needed at the sacrafice of tankablity
Ragnarok
11H 5 epidermis 5 Launcher
6M
6L
5% bonus to Capital Projectile Turret Damage per level
5% bonus to Citadel Launcher Damage per level
7.5% reduction in gang membersÆ signature radius per level
99% reduction in CPU need for Capital Jump Bridge Array
99% reduction in CPU need for Clone Vat Bay
99% reduction in CPU need for Advanced Siege Module
Immune to all forms of Electronic Warfare
Highest Theoretical DPS, worst tank. High Utility. able to mix up damage type with little to no penalty
All Ships Except the Rag have 2 Util slots or gimping there dps for more support type setup. the Rag only has 1 as a Compromis for its ability to out DPS all the other ships with its split Weapons layout.
you fit these up with a Officer Web or have support web and they will one Volley a BS without incident, so they maintain the ablity to take down enemy support efficently but not all at once
Titan would essentially by a Super Version of its smaller Dread Cousin. able to deal the DPS of 2-3 Dreads but also able to lay waste to attacking support since it retains its tracking in siege
|
Veneth
|
Posted - 2007.03.12 06:46:00 -
[64]
I like all the people saying it's fine now, but when the numbers of titans grow they'll have to probably change DDD's, so your acknowledging that the thing is already broken, but for some reason feel it's ok because it's in small numbers?
Please everyone knows DDD are broken, nothing should just light up entire fleets of ships with a single click, I don't care how big the ship is. If this game was WoW or some crap where dying didn't matter than fine but it does matter and simply eradicating everyone with one button is just overpowered.
Fact of the matter is Blobs will never go away, it's the only way to defend a point in space, and coming up with some fantasy I-win button weapon that makes a blob a detriment is wrong.
|
Thoric Frosthammer
The Syndicate Inc
INVICTUS.
|
Posted - 2007.03.12 06:49:00 -
[65]
Basically, as I understand it, the Doomsday weapon was intended to discourage blobs. Well, it does that, kinda. Problem is, they have yet to revise the rest of the game so that anything else is practical. Bottom line, it's ended up having the reverse effect, and is escalating the game into capital ship blobs.
Sovereignty needs a complete and total revision from start to finish. Titan DDs need a beating with the nerfbat, and/or a revision of their role, and/or some kind of negative that makes them balanced.
Anyone thoughtful on either side of the conflict seems to agree with these two statements. That is, anyone who isn't "LOL yer just ****ed cause you got DD'ed". CCP, its in your court now, but it seems to me your game is going to keel over if you don't seriously rethink fleet fights and sov.
|
Bo Gast
|
Posted - 2007.03.12 07:15:00 -
[66]
The problem isnt the DD in it self. It was designed to make "blobtactics" hard and try to take it away. That is good and fine. With the lag today i dont think there is anyone who likes the 100-200ppl fleets trying to shot at eachother.
The problem with it is this: You till need the blob to accomplish anything. That is what CCP shouldve sorted fist, then intoduce the DD.
CCP knows this i think its written in some devblogs that they are working on this, to make smaller gang usefull and meaningfull. That the 200+ blob shouldnt be needed. This is all good and fine by me.
But they shouldve sorted that first as i said above.
|
Song
|
Posted - 2007.03.12 07:15:00 -
[67]
Edited by: Song on 12/03/2007 07:14:35
idea:
reduce the rof from 1hr to 10mins
have a 30 secs delay of the DD explosion. Gives the blob fleet 30 secs to get the hell out of there.
This allow it to be an effective anti blob weapon without it being overpowering
|
Kerfira
|
Posted - 2007.03.12 08:00:00 -
[68]
Edited by: Kerfira on 12/03/2007 07:57:26
Originally by: Hllaxiu
Gank squads do not effect territorial claims. "blobs" do. This is the way EVE has been designed. If CCP did not intend for blobs to be necessary to claim territory, then they have failed horribly at game design.
Gank squads DO affect territorial claims.... but their effect is not immediate nor direct (you seem to want 'I have the biggest blob... I WIN!').
Who ever said that EVE should just be about gathering the biggest blob, walking in, shooting up the enemy POS and take their station, and be home in time for breakfast? That's blob tactics for you, and we're better off without it.
What you have to do is roll gank squads through the enemy territories repeatedly until their spirit is broken. THEN you start on taking their systems, and when they beat you or DD you, refit immediately and come back again.
It'll not be easy, it'll not be cheap, it'll not be quick, and it'll require your group to be more determined than your enemy. THAT is how it should be with territorial warfare!
Originally by: Veneth
Please everyone who hasn't got one knows DD are broken, nothing should just light up entire fleets blobs of ships with a single click, I don't care how big the ship is (because my group doesn't have one).
...Fixed it for you....
Originally by: Veneth
If this game was WoW or some crap where dying didn't matter than fine but it does matter and simply eradicating everyone with one button is just overpowered.
Dying should hurt. EVE is pretty unforgiving that way, and that's how it should be. A Titan (without fittings and BPO's) cost the same as 600(!) tier-2 BATTLESHIPS. If someone has the dedication to build one, they damn well SHOULD have a very big stick to beat up their opponents with, and said opponents SHOULD have to work VERY VERY hard if they want to be victorious.
---
Anyway, prompted by another post above, I took a peek at the BoB killboard and looked more closely at the kills. It seems like there were two battles, first one from about 2130-2135, and second one from 2144-2201 (with the DD going off at 2154).
The first fleet seems to have been annihilated for no BoB loss (assuming their KB is accurate), and the second is a mix of DD and ship kills also with no BoB losses except 2 ships to their own DD.
To say that the DD won this battle is at best a big misunderstanding, at worst a big lie. BoB PWN'd their enemies in their usual fashion, and the posts in this thread seem to be not so much aimed against the DD, but more as a cover-up by IAC/Goons/+ for their general abyssmal performance in the battle.....
I can sort of understand that. Loosing 200'ish ships and not killing a single enemy must hurt your pride..... However, the DD is not at fault here, your FC is!
|
Chrysalis D'lilth
|
Posted - 2007.03.12 08:26:00 -
[69]
I don't like that the DD can be remote detonated, (no idea if it was in this case). Ships engaging in battle should be at risk by being on the same grid, or at least paralyzed in space for a good while afterwards and unable to crawl back behind a POS's shields.
|
Raem Civrie
Umbra Congregatio
Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
|
Posted - 2007.03.12 08:57:00 -
[70]
Add explosion velocity and all that stuff to DD's and SB's?
****, I don't know. I liked it when DD's reduced a semi-tanked battleship to structure, but didn't eliminate it. Sort of opened for DD, then warping in your fleet and mopping up the wounded battleships after the doomsday had wiped out support.
Well, lag sort of defeats that though.
----
All you do is bark. You never meow. |
R3dSh1ft
Caldari
FIRMA
Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
|
Posted - 2007.03.12 09:24:00 -
[71]
It sucks to die to a DD but that doesnt excuse anything :)
______________________________________
|
fuze
Gallente
Chosen Path
Lotka Volterra
|
Posted - 2007.03.12 09:30:00 -
[72]
Why is this a problem when you were hit by a DD?
Lost your precious T2 BS?
Cry harder.
Titans aren't the problem. Blobs are.
Or rather the fact that CCP design is flawed that a solar system cannot be shared by more than one single node. Heck, it would sweet to have a dedicated node for a grid dynamicly assigned when needed.
Being a man I still can achieve multiple sarcasms. |
Gnulpie
Minmatar
Miner Tech
|
Posted - 2007.03.12 09:41:00 -
[73]
All the people yelling "shut up! you just got pawned! noob! avoid DDD! bad tactics!", they need to look a bit further. (besides due to lag it is hardly possible to react fast enough often but that is some other topic).
With time we will have more and more titans because they are the ultimate weapon no matter at what other people say. And they do not add up in value, they multiply. You think you can fight against one titan and avoid the DDD? Maybe, maybe not. But what about two, three, even four titans?
No, CCP is doing huge mistakes, not only here. All their 'need for speed' stuff is not not an addition to the game and it was never meant to be. They only want to reduce the load balance of the server and so they change things. But doing so they harm the gameplay.
Maybe people play Eve because of those large fleet battles, because they like to have 200+ fleets shooting each other?
If you remove the ability to interact with large groups we can just forget the one-world attempt and introduce servers like every other mmorpg
|
TraderBiatch
|
Posted - 2007.03.12 09:46:00 -
[74]
Originally by: qvacky
Originally by: Kaalen
Edited by: Kaalen on 12/03/2007 01:03:07
Your fleet got owned by a doomsday device because a doomsday device is an anti-blob weapon, if you're facing a titan split your fleet up so that if you DO get hit you don't lose everyone. Be aligned to warp out should you fear a DDD is on it's way. Do SOMETHING to lure the thing into launching it's attack without taking significant losses and the rest of your fleet is safe until it charges up again.
EVE battles are not supposed to be two sides gathering up as many ships as possible and throwing them at each other to see who wins and I for one am thankful that there is a deterrant for this tactic, as there is no skill involved there at all.
You lost because you were outsmarted, not because a titan is an I-WIN button. Deal with it.
Ok then genius, what wonderful suggestions do you have on how to kill poses without a blob?
Its all nice and dandy to say 'lolz stop blobbing then,' but the fact of the matter is that its currently the only way to really achieve anything with the way the game mechanics are set up.
you're right, i'm sure those 200 T1 frigates and cruisers were on their way to kill a pos.
seems to me that they need to evolve some tactics for fighting, rather than just relying on human wave tacics of old. The Doomsday is the proverbial machinegun of eve :P
|
Gamesguy
Amarr
E X O D U S
Imperial Republic Of the North
|
Posted - 2007.03.12 09:53:00 -
[75]
Originally by: TraderBiatch
Originally by: qvacky
Originally by: Kaalen
Edited by: Kaalen on 12/03/2007 01:03:07
Your fleet got owned by a doomsday device because a doomsday device is an anti-blob weapon, if you're facing a titan split your fleet up so that if you DO get hit you don't lose everyone. Be aligned to warp out should you fear a DDD is on it's way. Do SOMETHING to lure the thing into launching it's attack without taking significant losses and the rest of your fleet is safe until it charges up again.
EVE battles are not supposed to be two sides gathering up as many ships as possible and throwing them at each other to see who wins and I for one am thankful that there is a deterrant for this tactic, as there is no skill involved there at all.
You lost because you were outsmarted, not because a titan is an I-WIN button. Deal with it.
Ok then genius, what wonderful suggestions do you have on how to kill poses without a blob?
Its all nice and dandy to say 'lolz stop blobbing then,' but the fact of the matter is that its currently the only way to really achieve anything with the way the game mechanics are set up.
you're right, i'm sure those 200 T1 frigates and cruisers were on their way to kill a pos.
seems to me that they need to evolve some tactics for fighting, rather than just relying on human wave tacics of old. The Doomsday is the proverbial machinegun of eve :P
Tactics and plans all fall apart when you cant activate a single module for 5 minutes on jump in.
|
HordeZla
Destructive Influence
|
Posted - 2007.03.12 09:59:00 -
[76]
To the Goon OP
last night you (goons) had 200 plus we, (see ticker) had 100 local.
you jumped in and a Titan killd 80 of you, then our fleet killed the rest of you.
The DD worked perfectley, as it made our fleets same size.
You failed to mention that 35% of you fleet was in noob ships, not t1 but noob ships.
Could this be to help you with your lagging?
The stats are on the kill board for all to see.
Funny stats 200 kills for 3 losses.
LMAO
TIP, BRING SAME NUMBERS AND WE FIGHT, TRY LAG US WITH 2 OR 3 TO 1 AND WE FART ON YOU!
|
Kerfira
|
Posted - 2007.03.12 10:09:00 -
[77]
Edited by: Kerfira on 12/03/2007 10:11:56
Originally by: HordeZla
You failed to mention that 35% of you fleet was in noob ships, not t1 but noob ships.
Could this be to help you with your lagging?
If this is true, then there is a great cause for everyone reading this to ROFL!!!!
Goons tried to use lag AND blob tactics, and it turned around and bit them in their backside
Originally by: HordeZla
you jumped in and a Titan killd 80 of you, then our fleet killed the rest of you.
So it was actually an even fight? And still IAC/Goons couldn't kill even a single ship????
Originally by: Gamesguy
Tactics and plans all fall apart when you cant activate a single module for 5 minutes on jump in.
It seems like the 5 min lag thing was what the Goon FC intended (NOOB SHIPS ).
Don't come crying about it now......
|
Kagura Nikon
Minmatar
MASS HOMICIDE
FREGE Alliance
|
Posted - 2007.03.12 10:40:00 -
[78]
Originally by: Dark Shikari
Sounds like someone just got doomsdayed.
Oh no! Someone forces you to use actual tactics rather than just sit 200 ships on a gate waiting for the enemies to warp in and die?
well and a titan inside a POS using remote DD is more complex tactic that that?
If titans had to get into battle to use DD, then I would agree with you.
If brute force doesn't solve your problem... you are not using enough |
Kagura Nikon
Minmatar
MASS HOMICIDE
FREGE Alliance
|
Posted - 2007.03.12 10:42:00 -
[79]
Originally by: Darpz
Right now bob is 2-3 Months away from running around on weekends with 60+ Carrier/Dreads 5-10+ Moms 5-10 Titans with no support fleet and tbh I can't think of a way to counter this short of your own fleet that matches this.
Titan should of been a super dread, like the mothership is a super carrier.
How I would of done it:
Remove from the Titan:
Gang Mod Ability (this is the MS/Carriers Role)
DD (stupidest Idea ever)
New Modules
Advanced Siege Modules - All the damage boosting effects of a Siege Module but the ship keeps its Tracking as well as Locking Speed. and has a 5 Min Cycle Time instead of a 10Min for a Dread
Avatar:
10H 8T
4M
8L
Amarr Titan Skill Bonuses:
10% reduction in Capital Energy Turret capacitor use per level
5% bonus to Capital Energy Turret ROF Per Level
7.5% bonus to gang membersÆ capacitor recharge rate per level
99% reduction in CPU need for Capital Jump Bridge Array
99% reduction in CPU need for Clone Vat Bay
99% reduction in CPU need for Advanced Siege Module
Immune to all forms of Electronic Warfare
Least Utility do to lack of mids but best Armor Tank and close to the best DPS but can't Change Damage type
Leviathan
9H 7L
8M
5L
5% bonus to Citadel Missile kinetic damage per level
5% bonus to Citadel Launcher rate of fire per level
7.5% bonus to gang membersÆ maximum shield HP per level
99% reduction in CPU need for Capital Jump Bridge Array
99% reduction in CPU need for Clone Vat Bay
99% reduction in CPU need for Advanced Siege Module
Immune to all forms of Electronic Warfare
Very Strong Shield Tank, DPS is middle of the Pack but it can Change Damage type if needed for a 25% damage hit if needed which is a plus
Erebus
9H 7T
6M
7L
5% bonus to Capital Hybrid Turret damage per level
75% to Drone Damage Per Level
7.5% bonus to gang membersÆ maximum armor HP per level
99% reduction in CPU need for Capital Jump Bridge Array
99% reduction in CPU need for Clone Vat Bay
99% reduction in CPU need for Advanced Siege Module
Immune to all forms of Electronic Warfare
Lowest DPS of the group but best utility of the group. and has the ablity to shield tank and gank to be able to Gank if needed at the sacrafice of tankablity
Ragnarok
11H 5 epidermis 5 Launcher
6M
6L
5% bonus to Capital Projectile Turret Damage per level
5% bonus to Citadel Launcher Damage per level
7.5% reduction in gang membersÆ signature radius per level
99% reduction in CPU need for Capital Jump Bridge Array
99% reduction in CPU need for Clone Vat Bay
99% reduction in CPU need for Advanced Siege Module
Immune to all forms of Electronic Warfare
Highest Theoretical DPS, worst tank. High Utility. able to mix up damage type with little to no penalty
All Ships Except the Rag have 2 Util slots or gimping there dps for more support type setup. the Rag only has 1 as a Compromis for its ability to out DPS all the other ships with its split Weapons layout.
you fit these up with a Officer Web or have support web and they will one Volley a BS without incident, so they maintain the ablity to take down enemy support efficently but not all at once
Titan would essentially by a Super Version of its smaller Dread Cousin. able to deal the DPS of 2-3 Dreads but also able to lay waste to attacking support since it retains its tracking in siege
lol sure the is a counter.. the uber goons blob of doom that crashes every node it touches...
Well CCp you cause dthat.. now live with the results!
If brute force doesn't solve your problem... you are not using enough |
Viliny
Caldari
principle of motion
Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
|
Posted - 2007.03.12 10:58:00 -
[80]
Originally by: HordeZla
To the Goon OP
last night you (goons) had 200 plus we, (see ticker) had 100 local.
you jumped in and a Titan killd 80 of you, then our fleet killed the rest of you.
The DD worked perfectley, as it made our fleets same size.
You failed to mention that 35% of you fleet was in noob ships, not t1 but noob ships.
Could this be to help you with your lagging?
The stats are on the kill board for all to see.
Funny stats 200 kills for 3 losses.
LMAO
TIP, BRING SAME NUMBERS AND WE FIGHT, TRY LAG US WITH 2 OR 3 TO 1 AND WE FART ON YOU!
so if you had 100 and the other side had 200. Then if 35% of 200 had noob ships. Won't that leave 130 non-noob ships?
BRAWL BRAWL BRAWL!
Be nice
|
Dr Kojak
Infinitus Odium
|
Posted - 2007.03.12 11:03:00 -
[81]
My suggestion is that the DDD only works where the titan is currently at, menaing the titan would have to enter the battlefield for it to work. That way at least there is a risk in it on both sides of the battlefield.
Dr Kojak
|
Pilk
Axiom Empire
|
Posted - 2007.03.12 11:03:00 -
[82]
Originally by: Jex Jast
If CCP wants to make something that takes hundreds upon hundreds of ships to destroy...
WTB: ANY ship that fits this description.
(Hint: Titans have horrible tanks.)
--P
|
Kerfira
|
Posted - 2007.03.12 11:07:00 -
[83]
To put the OP's whining into perspective......
You jump in with 200 people, some in noob ships, around 50 battleships. Total ship value (not counting fittings), maybe 6-7 billion.
BoB has a fleet in system (100'ish?). Looking at BoB's usual fleet setups, it is probably fairly battleship heavy, and probably close to all are T2 fitted. They also have a Titan, plus probably motherships and carriers as well. Total ship value (not counting fittings), maybe 80+ billion.
Counting fittings would probably make the picture even more lopsided....
So basically, you took a 'cheap' fleet of riff-raff into a totally superior enemy fleet (10+ times your value....).
Ehh, can you tell me what made you think you'd WIN?????
Can you tell me why you SHOULD win?????
If you'd wanted to win that fight, you should have thought of bringing carriers, motherships, maybe dreads to shoot the Titan (assuming it appeared on the battlefield)....
In short, you were the guy who brought a sharp stick to a gunfight..... and you can't understand why you lost????
|
Deva Blackfire
Celestial Apocalypse
Insurgency
|
Posted - 2007.03.12 11:21:00 -
[84]
Originally by: hybridundertaker
i fully endorse titans and doomsday devices. I hate big slow laggy blobs, it should be reduced into wrecks anyway. Actually i think it is rediculous to see all those pods after ddd so me thinks there should be something like backfire ot aftershock or residual radiation or whatever that would do enought damage to kill the pods also.
However i can say that as i dont wanna go shoot anyposes or large blobs and such plus. If i wanted to dominate the universe in ibises id probably be against it.
DDs dont work anti blob. They just increase the value of blob on the titan side. Usually to engage 200 ships you'd have to own (more-less) 200 of ours. Now if one side has titan they need 50-100 ships to engage 200. And if they still have 200? Surely they WILL NOT reduce blob.
As for supercapitals - they are so screwed up atm that its not even funny. Motherships killed small/med gang warfare in 0.0-0.4. You fly with 25-30 ships, mommy jumps in, you get back home in pods. Or just sit in safespot. FUN i tell you, always wanted to log into game and sit in safe/docked.
Carriers are already getting too powerful and i think they dont need another boost (maybe better lock time/instalock on friendlies to rep em). One carrier in 20vs20 engagement is enough to tip the ballance.
|
Shin Ra
BURN EDEN
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2007.03.12 11:26:00 -
[85]
Titans and DDs are totally unfair any anyone who has one has no desire for pvp or e-honour fair fights. That is, until I get one, when I will pwn all you noobs.
|
Lord XSiV
Amarr
The Nine Gates
|
Posted - 2007.03.12 11:29:00 -
[86]
Originally by: Liklin
Originally by: DarkZaion
u must be a goon that just got dd'ed ...
if u cant handle 0.0 then get the f... out
or stop whining
If everyone played on a level playing field that "might" be a valid point, however since some people are simply "special" in this game, thats not the case is it........
I am special so what is your point?
|
Aramendel
Amarr
Queens of the Stone Age
Anarchy Empire
|
Posted - 2007.03.12 11:32:00 -
[87]
Edited by: Aramendel on 12/03/2007 11:31:26
Originally by: Kerfira
In short, you were the guy who brought a sharp stick to a gunfight..... and you can't understand why you lost????
Exept the same thing would happen if you bring a massive 300-400 people fleet with 350 t2 fitted BSs and 50 capitals.
Titan kills noncapitals, capitals get killed by the titans blob or if there isn't any titan jumps out since it is safe behind a POS shield.
And the REAL fun will start once one side has enough titans to pop capitals with DDs. Making it inassaultable.
|
Lord XSiV
Amarr
The Nine Gates
|
Posted - 2007.03.12 11:55:00 -
[88]
Originally by: Aramendel
Edited by: Aramendel on 12/03/2007 11:31:26
Originally by: Kerfira
In short, you were the guy who brought a sharp stick to a gunfight..... and you can't understand why you lost????
Exept the same thing would happen if you bring a massive 300-400 people fleet with 350 t2 fitted BSs and 50 capitals.
Titan kills noncapitals, capitals get killed by the titans blob or if there isn't any titan jumps out since it is safe behind a POS shield.
And the REAL fun will start once one side has enough titans to pop capitals with DDs. Making it inassaultable.
You peons keep thinking that way as it makes it much easier to say:
"It isn't our fault you don't know how to fit your ships"
Or
"Maybe you should wait till you have the skill points and experience to fly something useful into a battle with the big kids"
Like I mean really come on, the only reason there is whinage is because the bob pilots actually know how to use their ships (in this case the titan) and the peons can't press the 'auto-win' button they are so used to doing when they flood a system with low end pilots flying t1 and noob ships.
Go figure, this is eve-o, post at will when you lose something on the hope it gets nerfed.
|
Kerfira
|
Posted - 2007.03.12 12:01:00 -
[89]
Originally by: Aramendel
Originally by: Kerfira
In short, you were the guy who brought a sharp stick to a gunfight..... and you can't understand why you lost????
Exept the same thing would happen if you bring a massive 300-400 people fleet with 350 t2 fitted BSs and 50 capitals.
Titan kills noncapitals, capitals get killed by the titans blob or if there isn't any titan jumps out since it is safe behind a POS shield.
If your FC is stupid enough to just pour his ships into the meat-grinder in a 'CHARGE!!!' scenario, then yes, you get fried and should be.
If two fleets are similarly composed, but one of them has a Titan, that fleet SHOULD have the advantage!!!
You're trying to argue that the 'cheap' fleet should win...
It doesn't (and shouldn't) work that way. There are no easy solutions for you, so you have to take one of the not-easy solutions:
1. Build your own Titan (oh noes.... WORK to win?)
2. Over the cause of 6-12 months (maybe more if you're fighting a dedicated enemy who loves PvP), keep fighting your enemy and grind away their will to fight. When their will to fight is gone, the Titan will not have the support fleet you mention (oh noes.... WORK to win?)
Originally by: Aramendel
And the REAL fun will start once one side has enough titans to pop capitals with DDs. Making it inassaultable.
No, it just mean you'll have to throw more waves of dreads at them! It'll be expensive, but so are Titans. Don't expect to kill them cheaply....
To boil it down, let me translate the general trend of this thread:
"Wah wah! The other guy has a bigger ship than me! I don't want to work to win! Take the other guys ship away from him!"
See what I'm getting at? Your point of view is that the guy with the sharp stick should win the gunfight....
|
Kerfira
|
Posted - 2007.03.12 13:32:00 -
[90]
Originally by: Miranda Ceres
Pretty soon, non capital ships will be obsolete in terms of fleet warfare - several doomsday devices firing at once will destroy every non dread/carrier/mothership/titan. The largest alliances will soon begin fielding fleets of 100 dreadnoughts, 50 carriers, a dozen motherships and perhaps 6 titans.
If you knew anything about the logistics required and the cost of moving capitals around, you'd realise how ridiculous that statement is......
Capital ships are nice and they ARE powerful, but it takes an awful lot of work and money to keep them running, not to mention that they're very vulnerable without their support fleet. Add the fact that they are actually pretty immobile compared to a fleet of non-capitals (slow in-system, and requiring cynos out-of system)....
They have their role and perform well in it, but they can not effectively operate without a mobile fleet.
|
Deva Blackfire
Celestial Apocalypse
Insurgency
|
Posted - 2007.03.12 14:29:00 -
[91]
Originally by: Kerfira
If you knew anything about the logistics required and the cost of moving capitals around, you'd realise how ridiculous that statement is......
Capital ships are nice and they ARE powerful, but it takes an awful lot of work and money to keep them running, not to mention that they're very vulnerable without their support fleet. Add the fact that they are actually pretty immobile compared to a fleet of non-capitals (slow in-system, and requiring cynos out-of system)....
They have their role and perform well in it, but they can not effectively operate without a mobile fleet.
Yeh yeh - they need whole lots of work and money to make em useful. You know how easy is to move capital fleet when you have cyno alts? WAY faster than moving ceptor same way. Fuel? You can carry enough in carriers and just distribue to dreads if needed.
As for "they need support fleet" - no they dont. Maybe dreads and carriers. Supercapitals are solopwnmobiles and until enemy has 50-100man blob with multiple dictors and dreads you risk nothing.
|
The Fates
Caldari
Perkone
|
Posted - 2007.03.12 14:42:00 -
[92]
Originally by: Kerfira
If you'd wanted to win that fight, you should have thought of bringing carriers, motherships, maybe dreads to shoot the Titan (assuming it appeared on the battlefield)....
The fact that it doesnt have to appear on the battlefield sucks.
Originally by: Sun Tzu
In war, then, let your great object be victory, not lengthy campaigns.
|
Capt Rob
Minmatar
Black Omega Security
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2007.03.12 14:45:00 -
[93]
Titans do cost alot of isk, and they require alot of training time. But being able to destroy entire fleets in a sec espcially during this age where if you have gangs of more then 100 people going at it, theres so much lag, its just horrid. And yes people go well its designed to stop zergs of people and hugh gangs. Well obviously it does do this, but i feel that dd'ing needs some work by ccp and i feel that it should require something more then sending a frig with a cyno into the battlefield. Eve should not be all about who can afford the most solopwn mobiles. In my feeling it degrades fleet tactics and good old combat, some ppl may say that it requires alot of tactics to have a good DD, but really it does not require many, especially with the way eve handles any thing that resembles fleet battles.
Also, im curios as to the dd range , ive been told many different things be nice if i could get some confirmation.
|
Kerfira
|
Posted - 2007.03.12 15:16:00 -
[94]
Originally by: Deva Blackfire
Originally by: Kerfira
My stuff...
Yeh yeh - they need whole lots of work and money to make em useful. You know how easy is to move capital fleet when you have cyno alts? WAY faster than moving ceptor same way. Fuel? You can carry enough in carriers and just distribue to dreads if needed.
True.....
IF they have the route already planned out....
IF they have the cyno characters there....
IF they have the fuel available....
IF they can refuel quickly (you'd know they can't if you'd ever tried refueling capitals)....
IF the cost of the fuel expended is worth the catch....
They can move fast, yes, but only with a lot of planning and pre-positioning of resources, which might include setting up and maintaining safe POS.
I.e. you have to KNOW beforehand that you're moving your capitals and where to... A fleet can go anywhere on moments notice and with minimal planning, and it doesn't cost anything for it to do so.
Good luck on chasing an enemy fleet with a capital fleet......
Originally by: Deva Blackfire
As for "they need support fleet" - no they dont. Maybe dreads and carriers. Supercapitals are solopwnmobiles and until enemy has 50-100man blob with multiple dictors and dreads you risk nothing.
Yeah right!
If a 10-20 strong dread/carrier fleet gets attacked by a 50'ish half'n'half support/BS fleet, and doesn't have their own support fleet, they get slaughtered. Only ones who doesn't die are the ones who manage to cyno out....
Supercapitals are another matter, but at a base cost of 15/60 billion (which is the equivalent of 150/600 Tier-2 BATTLESHIPS, btw.), it bloody well SHOULD take a fleet to take them down.....
|
Kerfira
|
Posted - 2007.03.12 15:47:00 -
[95]
Originally by: Capt Rob
Titans do cost alot of isk, and they require alot of training time. But being able to destroy entire fleets in a sec espcially during this age where if you have gangs of more then 100 people going at it, theres so much lag, its just horrid.
You're in the wrong alliance, mate.. You do realise that this is your primary weapon you're criticising here (lag-bombing....)?
Look at the price tag for a Titan. If they cost (much) more than the fleet opposing them, then they bloody well SHOULD be able to destroy it if the circumstances are right (i.e. if the Titan pilot made the right preparations and the opposing FC is stupid enough to engage).
As have also been seen in the game (twice), if a Titan pilot makes even a small mistake, it's 60 billion down the drain....
Originally by: Capt Rob
And yes people go well its designed to stop zergs of people and hugh gangs. Well obviously it does do this, but i feel that dd'ing needs some work by ccp and i feel that it should require something more then sending a frig with a cyno into the battlefield.
I agree...... From what I've heard though, the BoB leader loves taking his Titan directly into battle....
Originally by: Capt Rob
Eve should not be all about who can afford the most solopwn mobiles. In my feeling it degrades fleet tactics and good old combat, some ppl may say that it requires alot of tactics to have a good DD, but really it does not require many, especially with the way eve handles any thing that resembles fleet battles.
Depends on what you want to do really. If what you want to do is build a 0.0 empire, then you MUST invest in the tools to do so. Currently that is Titans/Motherships/POS/Stations/etc. If you don't, then you're NOT FIT to run a 0.0 empire, and should not claim that you should be able to do so.
Doing so is the same as a frigate pilot whining that he's not able to fly a battleship....
People building a Titan show that they have a 0.0 empire truly worthy of that title. It shows leadership, teamwork, dedication, daring and tenacity. The reward for that is that you have the means to oppose those without those qualities with relative ease. You also risk a lot more....
Always having a higher level of gameplay to aim for is probably what makes EVE truly great. Except for Titan pilots, there are ALWAYS something higher/better/bigger to aim for, something I most definitely love (I'm currently aiming for a Carrier myself).
Originally by: Capt Rob
Also, I'm curios as to the DD range, I've been told many different things be nice if i could get some confirmation.
Afaik, it doesn't hit everything on the grid, but I don't know the exact range.... Heard something like 300'ish km...
---
As I said in one of my other postings, I detect a strong hint of 'Nerf this because we don't have one!' in many of the posts in this thread.
Only thing I can say to that is: GO BUILD ONE! (Oh noes..... Having to WORK to win?)
|
Kagura Nikon
Minmatar
MASS HOMICIDE
FREGE Alliance
|
Posted - 2007.03.12 15:54:00 -
[96]
Originally by: Miranda Ceres
If you look at the way that an alliance like ASCN was able to crank out outposts (and they would have had 3 titans by January too...) - it's not a leap of faith to imagine that an alliance with a decent amount of industrial output could easily have 10 titans very shortly, if they were that way inclined.
Pretty soon, non capital ships will be obsolete in terms of fleet warfare - several doomsday devices firing at once will destroy every non dread/carrier/mothership/titan. The largest alliances will soon begin fielding fleets of 100 dreadnoughts, 50 carriers, a dozen motherships and perhaps 6 titans. It will be an impressive sight to behold.
and whre will these alliances find so many pilots with capacitation to fly that? How many titan capable pilots we have today?
And i am pretty sure its not CCP intention to make the game become same thing as all other MMOs where only the uber old characters are usefull.
If brute force doesn't solve your problem... you are not using enough |
Dra0cht
|
Posted - 2007.03.12 15:57:00 -
[97]
On the subject of 'God forbid that there should be fleet battles'...well if you've actually been in a fleet battle lately, its like a turn based sim, with 1 turn every 5 minutes, and, errm, you don't actually get your turn, and all sorts of random non-player initiated stuff happens, and sorta reminds me of a powerpoint presentation, just chunks up a lot more ram than powerpoint...totally pointless
|
Celeste Coeval
|
Posted - 2007.03.12 15:59:00 -
[98]
This thread was clearly made by someone ignorant to the ins and out of capital ship managment. Stop feeding the thread as you can't help those who don't want to be taught.
"If you are out to describe the truth, leave elegance to the tailor."
-Albert Einstein
|
Kagura Nikon
Minmatar
MASS HOMICIDE
FREGE Alliance
|
Posted - 2007.03.12 16:01:00 -
[99]
Also forgot. For the oens that say that a titan should be able to kil an entire fleet of ships of same combined cost....
OK.. so since when can any Tier 3 battleship defeat 150 million isk in T1 frigates at same time?
Price its not an excuse!!!! 60 Billion ISK is NOT EXPENSIVE for alliances with 1500 or 2000 members! Just get 30 million form each member. that is much less than what they excpend in a day of battle. That is 1 hour of ratting of the alliance!!!! 1 HOUR!!!
The isk cost is low. The only thing hard is the logistics needed to make all stuff needed and move it, keep it a secret etc... And this is a pain in the rear bottom..
But Price is not an excuse for uberness and crippling completely the fun of 99.99999999% of players!
If brute force doesn't solve your problem... you are not using enough |
Capt Rob
Minmatar
Black Omega Security
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2007.03.12 16:03:00 -
[100]
Originally by: Kerfira
Originally by: Capt Rob
Titans do cost alot of isk, and they require alot of training time. But being able to destroy entire fleets in a sec espcially during this age where if you have gangs of more then 100 people going at it, theres so much lag, its just horrid.
You're in the wrong alliance, mate.. You do realise that this is your primary weapon you're criticising here (lag-bombing....)?
Look at the price tag for a Titan. If they cost (much) more than the fleet opposing them, then they bloody well SHOULD be able to destroy it if the circumstances are right (i.e. if the Titan pilot made the right preparations and the opposing FC is stupid enough to engage).
As have also been seen in the game (twice), if a Titan pilot makes even a small mistake, it's 60 billion down the drain....
Originally by: Capt Rob
And yes people go well its designed to stop zergs of people and hugh gangs. Well obviously it does do this, but i feel that dd'ing needs some work by ccp and i feel that it should require something more then sending a frig with a cyno into the battlefield.
I agree...... From what I've heard though, the BoB leader loves taking his Titan directly into battle....
The only mistake most titan pilots can make is logging out too early after dding or crasing etc, the thing i dont like is that even tho they are solopwnmobiles, they dont even be at the place to dd. And no m8 the bob leader does not bring the titan directly into battle nor does anyone. I think that a titan should have to take a real risk and enter the battle field, which isnt the biggest risk as it can jump out or warp if there are no bubbles on it. and as no 1 seems to know maby could a gm etc confirm whaat the dd range is?
|
Deva Blackfire
Celestial Apocalypse
Insurgency
|
Posted - 2007.03.12 16:08:00 -
[101]
Originally by: Kerfira
IF they have the route already planned out....
IF they have the cyno characters there....
IF they have the fuel available....
IF they can refuel quickly (you'd know they can't if you'd ever tried refueling capitals)....
IF the cost of the fuel expended is worth the catch....
Hmmm - everytime we used capitals in combat it wasnt planned beforehand. They were always fuelled and ready for action (dont tell me you hold ships unarmed in hangar - fuel is same as having mods equipped), and cyno was just a question of dropping one mod/gun on one ship (usually on dictors tho friend was using raven for it and worked well).
Im pretty sure if we had to move capital ships at this very moment we could at least pass 2 regions before refuelling/cyno problems occur. Time to organise cynonet? My guess 15 minutes tops (at least for our corp).
Originally by: Kerfira
I.e. you have to KNOW beforehand that you're moving your capitals and where to...
No if you always have em ready for combat.
Originally by: Kerfira
Yeah right!
If a 10-20 strong dread/carrier fleet gets attacked by a 50'ish half'n'half support/BS fleet, and doesn't have their own support fleet, they get slaughtered. Only ones who doesn't die are the ones who manage to cyno out....
You got any proof?
Originally by: Kerfira
Supercapitals are another matter, but at a base cost of 15/60 billion (which is the equivalent of 150/600 Tier-2 BATTLESHIPS, btw.), it bloody well SHOULD take a fleet to take them down.....
Bringing ISK amounts into equation is stupid. Does it mean "lets grind NPCs for 2 months and then we are invincible cause everyone of us spent 30bil"?
|
Veneth
|
Posted - 2007.03.12 16:32:00 -
[102]
Originally by: Kerfira
Edited by: Kerfira on 12/03/2007 07:57:26
Originally by: Hllaxiu
Gank squads do not effect territorial claims. "blobs" do. This is the way EVE has been designed. If CCP did not intend for blobs to be necessary to claim territory, then they have failed horribly at game design.
Gank squads DO affect territorial claims.... but their effect is not immediate nor direct (you seem to want 'I have the biggest blob... I WIN!').
Who ever said that EVE should just be about gathering the biggest blob, walking in, shooting up the enemy POS and take their station, and be home in time for breakfast? That's blob tactics for you, and we're better off without it.
What you have to do is roll gank squads through the enemy territories repeatedly until their spirit is broken. THEN you start on taking their systems, and when they beat you or DD you, refit immediately and come back again.
It'll not be easy, it'll not be cheap, it'll not be quick, and it'll require your group to be more determined than your enemy. THAT is how it should be with territorial warfare!
Originally by: Veneth
Please everyone who hasn't got one knows DD are broken, nothing should just light up entire fleets blobs of ships with a single click, I don't care how big the ship is (because my group doesn't have one).
...Fixed it for you....
Originally by: Veneth
If this game was WoW or some crap where dying didn't matter than fine but it does matter and simply eradicating everyone with one button is just overpowered.
Dying should hurt. EVE is pretty unforgiving that way, and that's how it should be. A Titan (without fittings and BPO's) cost the same as 600(!) tier-2 BATTLESHIPS. If someone has the dedication to build one, they damn well SHOULD have a very big stick to beat up their opponents with, and said opponents SHOULD have to work VERY VERY hard if they want to be victorious.
---
Anyway, prompted by another post above, I took a peek at the BoB killboard and looked more closely at the kills. It seems like there were two battles, first one from about 2130-2135, and second one from 2144-2201 (with the DD going off at 2154).
The first fleet seems to have been annihilated for no BoB loss (assuming their KB is accurate), and the second is a mix of DD and ship kills also with no BoB losses except 2 ships to their own DD.
To say that the DD won this battle is at best a big misunderstanding, at worst a big lie. BoB PWN'd their enemies in their usual fashion, and the posts in this thread seem to be not so much aimed against the DD, but more as a cover-up by IAC/Goons/+ for their general abyssmal performance in the battle.....
I can sort of understand that. Loosing 200'ish ships and not killing a single enemy must hurt your pride..... However, the DD is not at fault here, your FC is!
First. A Blob is a fleet, a fleet moves together it does not split and scatter.
Second. No even if my corp/allaince owed a Titan I would still think it's cheesey as hell, it goes against all of what Eve has done so far with it's DDD. 1 ship does not equal I win
Third. Since WHEN has ISK = WIN? saying a titan costs X therefore it should WTFPWN everything is so wrong, if that is the case than a single battleship should be able to annihilate dozens apon dozens of frigs and cruisers with a single click of it's mini-DDD, but does it? no? yeah I didn't think so..
|
Castar
Aliastra
|
Posted - 2007.03.12 16:48:00 -
[103]
And all this could partially be solved by devaluating the ISK. You heard me. Make a battleship a battleship again, make capital ships an investment and make building titans a monstrous alliance effort that should be rewarded with such power.
But of course, maybe I'm just insane.
-
Fluffy Wuffy Bunny > Die, pig.
* Fluffy Wuffy Bunny utterly destroys you in a bunnylike fashion.
Fluffy Wuffy Bunny > Victory is mine! |
Winterblink
Body Count Inc.
Mercenary Coalition
|
Posted - 2007.03.12 16:50:00 -
[104]
Originally by: Veneth
Third. Since WHEN has ISK = WIN? saying a titan costs X therefore it should WTFPWN everything is so wrong, if that is the case than a single battleship should be able to annihilate dozens apon dozens of frigs and cruisers with a single click of it's mini-DDD, but does it? no? yeah I didn't think so..
Yeah yeah. It's not just a simple matter of ISK = WIN, there's a tremendous amount of hard work and logistics necessary to even build a titan, as well as a tremendous investment in money and time in training to pilot it. It's not something a dozen folks spent time on a weekend to accomplish. By comparison, battleship building is like making a paper airplane, while titan construction is like digging the tunnel under the English Channel. And that's not even getting into the logistics of moving it around, which has already been spoken to earlier in the thread.
The reward for all of that work? A ship with a big red button that blows up a lot of stuff when you push it. And it's already been proven once that they're in no way invulnerable to circumstance and an opposing force that knows what it's doing. In that way the Titan is like a will fulcrum. You have to be darn committed to build one, and equally so to try to take one out.
|
Deva Blackfire
Celestial Apocalypse
Insurgency
|
Posted - 2007.03.12 17:49:00 -
[105]
Originally by: Winterblink
And it's already been proven once that they're in no way invulnerable to circumstance and an opposing force that knows what it's doing.
Killing logged off pilot? Even total idiot with probe launcher and enough time (or enough DPS to break it before 15minutes aggro runs off) could do this.
|
Sc0rpion
Minmatar
MetaForge
Ekliptika
|
Posted - 2007.03.12 17:51:00 -
[106]
"The pinnacle of military deployment approaches the formless: If it is formless, then even the deepest spy cannot discern it nor the wise make plans against it."
-Sun Tzu
Do not be the hammer. Be the water.
"The true secret to enjoying life is to live it dangerously."
-Freidrich Nietzche |
Veneth
|
Posted - 2007.03.12 18:07:00 -
[107]
Edited by: Veneth on 12/03/2007 18:09:09
Originally by: Winterblink
Originally by: Veneth
Third. Since WHEN has ISK = WIN? saying a titan costs X therefore it should WTFPWN everything is so wrong, if that is the case than a single battleship should be able to annihilate dozens apon dozens of frigs and cruisers with a single click of it's mini-DDD, but does it? no? yeah I didn't think so..
Yeah yeah. It's not just a simple matter of ISK = WIN, there's a tremendous amount of hard work and logistics necessary to even build a titan, as well as a tremendous investment in money and time in training to pilot it. It's not something a dozen folks spent time on a weekend to accomplish. By comparison, battleship building is like making a paper airplane, while titan construction is like digging the tunnel under the English Channel. And that's not even getting into the logistics of moving it around, which has already been spoken to earlier in the thread.
The reward for all of that work? A ship with a big red button that blows up a lot of stuff when you push it. And it's already been proven once that they're in no way invulnerable to circumstance and an opposing force that knows what it's doing. In that way the Titan is like a will fulcrum. You have to be darn committed to build one, and equally so to try to take one out.
It's perspective Winter, the very first battleship I built was a nightmare to make, it took weeks of mining with people I knew in thoraxs, all the money I had to get certain mins and a lot of help from everyone I knew back than to put it together.. Now a days I can practically spit out a battleship in my sleep. Simply saying "hey it costs a lot and takes a lot of work therefore it should murder everything" is flawed.
Battleships used to wtfpwn everything and that got changed. I don't see how Titans and DDD are going to end up any diffrent.
Titans should obviously offer a tactical edge to a force able to field them but a simple eradication button.. no
|
Elviz
|
Posted - 2007.03.13 00:13:00 -
[108]
Originally by: Capt Rob
And no m8 the bob leader does not bring the titan directly into battle nor does anyone.
Think u'r wrong from looking at this.
|
Aramendel
Amarr
Queens of the Stone Age
Anarchy Empire
|
Posted - 2007.03.13 00:21:00 -
[109]
Jepp, the whole isk argument is flawed from the beginning. And effort is in this aspect the same thing as isk really.
Comparing the titan cost to the cost of battleships 1:1 is plain out stupid.
One dominix costs about 200 times the isk one tristan does. What would have a bigger effect on the battlefield, a swarm of 200 tristans or a single dominix?
Cost does not increase in a linear way for bigger ships, but growths expotentially. For a ship which has twice the effect on the battlefield you do not pay twice as much, but more like 10 times as much.
It's pretty much the same thing for the effect of SPs. The more SP you invest in a thing the smaller the return/SP gets. This makes the "he invested tons of SPs in it, so it should be extremly powerful" argument is flawed because of this. And it also ignores that the total SP of the pilots of the 200+ t2 fitted BSs which a single titan can counter is >>>> the SP of that titan pilot.
|
Phrixus Zephyr
D00M.
Triumvirate.
|
Posted - 2007.03.13 03:03:00 -
[110]
Edited by: Phrixus Zephyr on 13/03/2007 02:59:38
The most sense anyone has made yet.
400 people turn up for a fight. 200 get DD'd. 399 don't get a fight at all.
Eve is supposed to be a game, correct?
Originally by: Ice Conch
In soviet russia, soap drops you!
|
Aphotic Raven
Gallente
E X O D U S
Imperial Republic Of the North
|
Posted - 2007.03.13 03:16:00 -
[111]
Originally by: Dark Shikari
Sounds like someone just got doomsdayed.
Oh no! Someone forces you to use actual tactics rather than just sit 200 ships on a gate waiting for the enemies to warp in and die?
Oh no! Someones still hiding behind the bob titans rather than fighting! Thats a brilliant and ballsy tactic.
Originally by: Dr Cupid
Let me tell you all that I'm really enjoying eve-beta, and can't wait for the real game to come out!
|
Kylar Renpurs
|
Posted - 2007.03.13 03:56:00 -
[112]
Originally by: Dark Shikari
Sounds like someone just got doomsdayed.
Oh no! Someone forces you to use actual tactics rather than just sit 200 ships on a gate waiting for the enemies to warp in and die?
Not knowing much about fleet battles myself, but hearing a fair bit about how remote detonation works,, I note the use of the word 'a' in there, specifically '200 ships on A gate'
Last i checked there's multiple entrances into nearly all systems. I imagine it'd take a large number of resources to control this. And if you manage to constrain your opponent into a couple systems which completely restrict their movement, haven't you achieved victory? It's just attrition from there on in.
Heard some people mentioning non-capital ships will become redundant,,, and? Isn't it logical? two major alliances who used to fight with 100 BS, 20 dreads and a titan or two now fight with 100 dreads, 20 titans,,,, i dont see any problem there. My first corp war involved nothing larger than cruisers, and my first alliance war was nothing bigger than BS, and now we're getting into Dreads etc..
|
Trinity Faetal
Gallente
0utbreak
|
Posted - 2007.03.13 04:03:00 -
[113]
Edited by: Trinity Faetal on 13/03/2007 04:01:16
Originally by: Crumplecorn
EXTREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEME!
QFT
omfg winterblink sig thief
--
Enjoy The Silence |
Rells
Caldari
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
|
Posted - 2007.03.13 05:39:00 -
[114]
Originally by: Dark Shikari
Sounds like someone just got doomsdayed.
Oh no! Someone forces you to use actual tactics rather than just sit 200 ships on a gate waiting for the enemies to warp in and die?
What tactics? Unless you catch one logged out it cant be killed.
|
Miranda Ceres
|
Posted - 2007.03.13 23:14:00 -
[115]
Edited by: Miranda Ceres on 13/03/2007 23:10:44
Originally by: Kerfira
They have their role and perform well in it, but they can not effectively operate without a mobile fleet.
You wait until alliances are fielding 6 titans in one system...
|
Pilk
Axiom Empire
|
Posted - 2007.03.17 21:07:00 -
[116]
Originally by: Capt Rob
And no m8 the bob leader does not bring the titan directly into battle nor does anyone. I think that a titan should have to take a real risk and enter the battle field, which isnt the biggest risk as it can jump out or warp if there are no bubbles on it. and as no 1 seems to know maby could a gm etc confirm whaat the dd range is?
Check out this. As far as I know, Shrike has NEVER remote-detonated his DDD; he prefers to fire it up-close and personal. Cyvok exclusively fired his remotely. I think LV tends to remote-detonate theirs, as well. No idea about -A- or D2.
--P
|
Zillazuki
Rage of Angels
Morsus Mihi
|
Posted - 2007.03.17 21:47:00 -
[117]
Titans and to a certain extent Motherships have taken the shine off the game IMO.
|
Argenton Sayvers
|
Posted - 2007.03.17 22:08:00 -
[118]
A DD isnt a "anti-blob" weapon. A carrier or dread wont notice the first, second, third or forth DD. A DD is a "anti-newb" weapon. It clears
1. Frigates
2. Dictor Bubbles
3. everything smaller then BC
4. most BC / BS
Solution? Kick the useless newbs from your alliance, and bring more carriers / dreads. If you dont have (at the very least) 3 accounts with 20mSP each (3 cap pilots, 6 cyno alts), and enough ISK to replace deadspace fitted dreads for each one, you dont have any place in eve anyway.
Sarcasm? You decide.
Cap ships are slow, expensive, require fuel and logistics etc etc etc. but they dont light up after one DD. When your enemy has 10 titans jump-bridging all over the place, thats all you care about.
|
| |
|
| Pages: 1 2 3 4 :: [one page] |