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Infinity Ziona Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 2417	Posted - 2016.08.19 03:27:15 - [1] - Quote Problem with Gate Travel: When gate travel was first implemented there were only T1 warp disruptors and warp scramblers. I think respectively they had a range of 7km and 14km. These days we have HIC (24km bubble), Interdictors (20km bubble), focused interdictor script (30km infinity point), Arazu (60km? points), anchored disruptors up to 60km? Yet everyone is still spawning at 15km, which was if you were lucky, just outside of the original T1 disruptor so you had a chance. Now there's none unless you're cloaky. Risk aversion is global in this game, this means if there's a camp or potential camp many people will just not travel. Thats bad for EvE. Solution: Leave gates in but add a module or ship ability that allows warping to a system in EvE. Lets say you want to travel from Jita to Amarr. You select Amarr as your destination and warp to Amarr. It will take you 2 minutes to warp to Amarr. In Amarr at a random location a beacon appears, warpable like a cyno beacon and system wide. Depending on the length of the warp, such as the 2 minute warp from Jita, the beacon remains for a fixed amount of time. It could be 20 seconds so appears 1:40 seconds after your warp or shorter, longer. If you were warping from Jita to Perimeter, say a 10 second warp, it might only appear for 5 seconds, 5 seconds after you warped. Its an elegant and better solution then gate jumping and is not a turkey shoot but instead requires active hunting by pvp'rs. CCP Fozzie GÇ£We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-tonGÇª in null sec anomalies. GÇ£* Kaalrus pwned..... :)
Shae Tadaruwa Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 776	Posted - 2016.08.19 03:34:40 - [2] - Quote How do bubble mechanics in null that can't be used in highsec create a problem in highsec that means a solution is to warp direct from Jita to Amarr? Dracvlad - "...Your intel is free intel, all you do is pay for it..." && "...If you warp on the same path as a cloaked ship, you'll make a bookmark at exactly the same spot as the cloaky camper..."
Infinity Ziona Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 2417	Posted - 2016.08.19 03:37:57 - [3] - Quote Shae Tadaruwa wrote: How do bubble mechanics in null that can't be used in highsec create a problem in highsec that means a solution is to warp direct from Jita to Amarr? Use your brain and you'll figure it out. Hint: Not only bubbles, and bubble mechanics were mentioned in the post. CCP Fozzie GÇ£We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-tonGÇª in null sec anomalies. GÇ£* Kaalrus pwned..... :)
Shae Tadaruwa Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 776	Posted - 2016.08.19 03:41:09 - [4] - Quote Infinity Ziona wrote: Shae Tadaruwa wrote: How do bubble mechanics in null that can't be used in highsec create a problem in highsec that means a solution is to warp direct from Jita to Amarr? Use your brain and you'll figure it out. Hint: Not only bubbles, and bubble mechanics were mentioned in the post. Alternatively, you could have used your brain when writing the OP. I predict, just because of the character you are, this thread will not go well. The idea is rubbish too, but it's not that reason this thread will descend into hell (where it belongs). Dracvlad - "...Your intel is free intel, all you do is pay for it..." && "...If you warp on the same path as a cloaked ship, you'll make a bookmark at exactly the same spot as the cloaky camper..."
Infinity Ziona Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 2417	Posted - 2016.08.19 03:43:44 - [5] - Quote Shae Tadaruwa wrote: Infinity Ziona wrote: Shae Tadaruwa wrote: How do bubble mechanics in null that can't be used in highsec create a problem in highsec that means a solution is to warp direct from Jita to Amarr? Use your brain and you'll figure it out. Hint: Not only bubbles, and bubble mechanics were mentioned in the post. Alternatively, you could have used your brain when writing the OP. I predict, just because of the character you are, this thread will not go well. The idea is rubbish too, but it's not that reason this thread will descend into hell (where it belongs). Not interested. Nothing to say that's relevant to the thread then leave. Thanks next. CCP Fozzie GÇ£We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-tonGÇª in null sec anomalies. GÇ£* Kaalrus pwned..... :)
Lugh Crow-Slave 2881	Posted - 2016.08.19 04:04:14 - [6] - Quote Infinity Ziona wrote: Lets say you want to travel from Jita to Amarr. You select Amarr as your destination and warp to Amarr. It will take you 2 minutes to warp to Amarr. In Amarr at a random location a beacon appears, warpable like a cyno beacon and system wide. . ... and no one ever took a gate again as for the entire idea -1 choke points are good for the game and should not be easy to avoid be it HS, LS or NS Citadel worm hole tax
Rawketsled Generic Corp Name 395	Posted - 2016.08.19 04:52:07 - [7] - Quote Well we've found one way to drastically increase the number of people popping into lowsec. As a cyno-free way of skipping high-low gate camps, everyone is going to dive straight through to their target system.
Corvald Tyrska Valknetra 129	Posted - 2016.08.19 05:37:45 - [8] - Quote So based upon the argument you made to support you OP, changing the gate arrival point to be a 65km zone instead of 15km would fix things back to the way they used to be instead of this bizarre idea for risk free town portals?
Danika Princip GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 4622	Posted - 2016.08.19 06:16:21 - [9] - Quote In one fell swoop this undoes every single power projection nerf, removes every chokepoint, every defender's advanage, removes roams in favour of simply warping directly from jita to the system in your favourite nullsec region with the most rat kills, makes space pretty well impossible to defend... Need I go on?
Infinity Ziona Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 2418	Posted - 2016.08.19 06:20:06 - [10] - Quote Rawketsled wrote: Well we've found one way to drastically increase the number of people popping into lowsec. As a cyno-free way of skipping high-low gate camps, everyone is going to dive straight through to their target system. To a point, and that's a good thing, more people in low and null rather than the barren wasteland it is now. If they warped from Jita to their home system you'd have a convenient beacon to warp to if their warp point is many jumps away, the likelihood is they'd choose more frequent shorter jumps. As for spawning 65km around gates that'd work. Danika Princip wrote: In one fell swoop this undoes every single power projection nerf, removes every chokepoint, every defender's advanage, removes roams in favour of simply warping directly from jita to the system in your favourite nullsec region with the most rat kills, makes space pretty well impossible to defend... Need I go on? Goons don't defend space anyway. Null space is not supposed to be defendable. Its null its for fighting. You were never supposed to be able to set up a big safe nuet free area to carebear in. That's the opposite of the purpose of having null. CCP Fozzie GÇ£We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-tonGÇª in null sec anomalies. GÇ£* Kaalrus pwned..... :)
vipeer Infinite Point Test Alliance Please Ignore 5	Posted - 2016.08.19 06:27:18 - [11] - Quote Seriously? Its too easy to move around as it is now. Less cloaky and nullified stuff needed. Camps and people traveling is content and a way to instajump across galaxy will neither increase travel or make people undock for content. Infinite Point - a mature and stable PVP corp in TEST Alliance
Danika Princip GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 4623	Posted - 2016.08.19 06:37:37 - [12] - Quote Infinity Ziona wrote: Goons don't defend space anyway. Null space is not supposed to be defendable. Its null its for fighting. You were never supposed to be able to set up a big safe nuet free area to carebear in. That's the opposite of the purpose of having null. Erm...if it's not supposed to be possible to defend null space in any way, then how can there be any fights? If PL can warp fifty titans into literally any system in the entire game whenever they want with nothing to stop them, how can there be any fights?
Daichi Yamato Xero Security and Technologies 3451	Posted - 2016.08.19 06:46:31 - [13] - Quote And back in those days you couldn't warp to a gate at 0m so you were screwed inbound to a gate rather than outbound. If anything its easier to get around gate camps now. EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided" Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs
Infinity Ziona Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 2419	Posted - 2016.08.19 08:29:41 - [14] - Quote Danika Princip wrote: Infinity Ziona wrote: Goons don't defend space anyway. Null space is not supposed to be defendable. Its null its for fighting. You were never supposed to be able to set up a big safe nuet free area to carebear in. That's the opposite of the purpose of having null. Erm...if it's not supposed to be possible to defend null space in any way, then how can there be any fights? If PL can warp fifty titans into literally any system in the entire game whenever they want with nothing to stop them, how can there be any fights? There could be limits, constellation, regional, same distance as cyno whatever. The idea is to get people who are afraid of the chokes out into space so they can be involved in the game as a whole. Not huddled in highsec because the last time they took a choke 100 nerds alphad them. CCP Fozzie GÇ£We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-tonGÇª in null sec anomalies. GÇ£* Kaalrus pwned..... :)
Caleb Seremshur Caldari Provisions Caldari State 835	Posted - 2016.08.19 10:29:53 - [15] - Quote Lugh Crow-Slave wrote: Infinity Ziona wrote: Lets say you want to travel from Jita to Amarr. You select Amarr as your destination and warp to Amarr. It will take you 2 minutes to warp to Amarr. In Amarr at a random location a beacon appears, warpable like a cyno beacon and system wide. . ... and no one ever took a gate again as for the entire idea -1 choke points are good for the game and should not be easy to avoid be it HS, LS or NS At present every system in the game has choke points, a varied and interesting landscape provides it does not. Flanking maneuvers should be achievable when weighed against the risks of being more exposed. Current gate mechanics favour the camper 100-1
Lugh Crow-Slave 2884	Posted - 2016.08.19 10:35:09 - [16] - Quote Caleb Seremshur wrote: At present every system in the game has choke points, a varied and interesting landscape provides it does not. Flanking maneuvers should be achievable when weighed against the risks of being more exposed. Current gate mechanics favour the camper 100-1 The people holding the position will always have the advantage over those entering baring some obnoxious game-play mechanic and warping from jita to amarr in two minutes is not something we need could you imagine the power projection that would come with this? as for interesting landscape the gates and LY ranges are all that make up the landscape Citadel worm hole tax
Solecist Project 32209	Posted - 2016.08.19 10:42:25 - [17] - Quote I just picked one of the fundamentals you've mentioned, in this case "the idea is..." which means that's what your thread is about. "The idea is to get people who are afraid of the chokes out into space so they can be involved in the game as a whole." This is backwards. These people would still be lost and get themselves killed because they don't know how to go around gatecamps, how to avoid chokeholds and how to not die in the first place. Thus they will be having a hard time getting i volved anyway, if they can't even get around the first hurdle. This is nonsense. There is no right for players to reach some type of space when they can't even put basic efforts into it or overcome their childish fears. And they are childish, because there is nothing on the line but pixels! not even talking sbout your horrible behaviour... "That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breaths of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly pulverised by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds." -- Tippia
Caleb Seremshur Caldari Provisions Caldari State 835	Posted - 2016.08.19 11:07:53 - [18] - Quote Lugh Crow-Slave wrote: Caleb Seremshur wrote: At present every system in the game has choke points, a varied and interesting landscape provides it does not. Flanking maneuvers should be achievable when weighed against the risks of being more exposed. Current gate mechanics favour the camper 100-1 The people holding the position will always have the advantage over those entering baring some obnoxious game-play mechanic and warping from jita to amarr in two minutes is not something we need could you imagine the power projection that would come with this? as for interesting landscape the gates and LY ranges are all that make up the landscape Let's list just some examples of chokepoints by definition. Signature gates Mission gates Complex gates Stations Stargates Wormholes Default warp in points for ice/roid belt and anoms, planets and moons. I'm sure there are more, I just don't care to exhaustively list them. I'm not saying you're wrong or anything, but pretending cynos and stargates are the predominant chokepoints in this game is neglectful. The interesting landscape option may I direct you to my post in that other thread about divorcing systems from stargates entirely?
Jack AmarrX Zunn Corp 15	Posted - 2016.08.19 13:02:33 - [19] - Quote This is a very very bad idea. It basically destroys geography in EVE, it destroys choke points, it will completely **** up the market, it destroys risk, it means the most common form of PVP - roams, become impossible. What makes it even worse is that you can already sort of do this with a bit of effort. If you want to circumnavigate the camps that sometimes block off access to nulsec, you can go in through the back door that is wormholes incredibly easily.
Danika Princip GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 4631	Posted - 2016.08.19 13:51:37 - [20] - Quote Infinity Ziona wrote: There could be limits, constellation, regional, same distance as cyno whatever. The idea is to get people who are afraid of the chokes out into space so they can be involved in the game as a whole. Not huddled in highsec because the last time they took a choke 100 nerds alphad them. ...Then it doesn't remove chokepoints, does it. make it constellation or region based and you don't do anything about the very camps you're apparently aiming at, make it jump drive range and you still have the most notorious chokepoints (HED-GP to Keberz for instance is 12 LY), you simply make it impossible to either roam, defend your space, look after your ratters without literally sitting on top of them, or ever actually force a fight in any way shape or form. Regardless of what you do about travel, the highsec bears you're talking about will still not go to null. They'd just find another excuse and continue to post threads like this on the forums instead of learning how to play the game, how to navigate, and how to actually survive in an area of space where everyone is trying to kill you. Solecist Project worded this better than me, but I doubt you'll listen to him either.
Infinity Ziona Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 2419	Posted - 2016.08.19 16:04:26 - [21] - Quote Solecist Project wrote: I just picked one of the fundamentals you've mentioned, in this case "the idea is..." which means that's what your thread is about. "The idea is to get people who are afraid of the chokes out into space so they can be involved in the game as a whole." This is backwards. These people would still be lost and get themselves killed because they don't know how to go around gatecamps, how to avoid chokeholds and how to not die in the first place. Thus they will be having a hard time getting i volved anyway, if they can't even get around the first hurdle. This is nonsense. There is no right for players to reach some type of space when they can't even put basic efforts into it or overcome their childish fears. And they are childish, because there is nothing on the line but pixels! not even talking sbout your horrible behaviour... Leave my horrible behaviour out of this. I disagree with you. I think you have a very narrow idea of what carebears can contribute to null if they were able to get out and past the stupid chokes more easily. They would get around the first hurdle if they were not required to spawn within 15 km of a fleet of F1 nerds. In every mmo other than EvE spawn camping is banned because its only fun for one side and its largely impossible to predict / evade with any reasonable chance of success. In regards to the other posts, the geography of EvE is already spoiled by smuggler stargates and wormholes, this would simply be a less time intensive way to get people out into null. And they would go, if there was a way to bypass chokes. Now you can all say its a bad idea but the same was said when I proposed cooldowns and range limitations on caps. The same was said when I proposed non-HP based sov mechanics, as well as when I proposed citadels rather than POS. Time will tell. CCP Fozzie GÇ£We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-tonGÇª in null sec anomalies. GÇ£* Kaalrus pwned..... :)
Zoltan Lazar 263	Posted - 2016.08.19 17:39:11 - [22] - Quote Your point about how gate range hasn't changed while tackle range has is a good one, and interesting. Your idea to solve it is utter rubbish.
FT Cold R3d Fire Mouth Trumpet Cavalry 62	Posted - 2016.08.20 21:03:05 - [23] - Quote I like the idea of revisiting gate spawn distances, but I don't think I'm a fan of your idea.
Infinity Ziona Pandemic Horde Inc. Pandemic Horde 2421	Posted - 2016.08.21 01:20:56 - [24] - Quote Zoltan Lazar wrote: Your point about how gate range hasn't changed while tackle range has is a good one, and interesting. Your idea to solve it is utter rubbish. Calling something a rubbish idea without any explanation is a rubbish response. CCP Fozzie GÇ£We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-tonGÇª in null sec anomalies. GÇ£* Kaalrus pwned..... :)
Bumblefck Kerensky Initiatives 12862	Posted - 2016.08.21 02:22:43 - [25] - Quote Infinity Ziona wrote: Zoltan Lazar wrote: Your point about how gate range hasn't changed while tackle range has is a good one, and interesting. Your idea to solve it is utter rubbish. Calling something a rubbish idea without any explanation is a rubbish response. GIGO, I'm afraid Perfection is a dish best served like wasabi . Bumble's Space Log
FT Diomedes The Graduates 2643	Posted - 2016.08.21 02:33:12 - [26] - Quote I'll just leave this here: http://eve-gatecheck.space/eve/ PS - Your idea is pants-on-head stupid. CCP should add more NPC 0.0 space to open it up and liven things up: the Stepping Stones project.
Nevyn Auscent Broke Sauce 3531	Posted - 2016.08.21 02:36:20 - [27] - Quote Infinity Ziona wrote: Calling something a rubbish idea without any explanation is a rubbish response. It's already been explained why this is rubbish. Your proposal is a cynoless jump drive with no jump fatigue. Which also incidentally is faster between stars than warping between two gates inside some systems.
Infinity Ziona Pandemic Horde Inc. Pandemic Horde 2421	Posted - 2016.08.21 03:48:59 - [28] - Quote Nevyn Auscent wrote: Infinity Ziona wrote: Calling something a rubbish idea without any explanation is a rubbish response. It's already been explained why this is rubbish. Your proposal is a cynoless jump drive with no jump fatigue. Which also incidentally is faster between stars than warping between two gates inside some systems. Its not a cynoless jump drive. A cyno can be positioned anywhere and you appear in system instantly, this is random in system location and the beacon appears for a period before you arrive meaning when you get there you have no gate to crash, or station to dock to and people in that system have plenty of time to arrive before you. Also means as a gang you don't all arrive in the same spot, you'll be spread out over the system. CCP Fozzie GÇ£We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-tonGÇª in null sec anomalies. GÇ£* Kaalrus pwned..... :)
baltec1 Bat Country Pandemic Legion 17973	Posted - 2016.08.21 03:49:11 - [29] - Quote The ugly face of instant gratification rears its head and demands the removal of the bulk of content in EVE.
Infinity Ziona Pandemic Horde Inc. Pandemic Horde 2421	Posted - 2016.08.21 03:52:04 - [30] - Quote baltec1 wrote: The ugly face of instant gratification rears its head and demands the removal of the bulk of content in EVE. Actually its the removal of the ugly face of instant gratification that is sitting in a blob at a stargate popping single ships. CCP Fozzie GÇ£We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-tonGÇª in null sec anomalies. GÇ£* Kaalrus pwned..... :)

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