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Any ETA on the loggonski/loggoffski "tactic" fix?

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Nea Topal KDM Corp Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2007.03.15 10:21:00 - [31] Edited by: Nea Topal on 15/03/2007 10:21:15 nm ------ Follow the word of Topal
Lord WarATron Amarr Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.03.15 10:27:00 - [32] Originally by: Ashaz From what I understood, the game knows the difference between realy dropping the connection and hitting ctrl+q. If you get disconnected you achtually stick around LONGER then if you just logoff. so, why not take these two things and swap them? If someone gets disconnected. fine. save them. fair enough. if someone logs off. let THEM have the delay. I hardly think as many people will start pulling the cord, as are abuseing the ctrl+q. also someone pulling the cord would dropp from teamspeak servers aswell... That is not a solution. Changing CTRL-Q will just mean people will insted use CTRL-ALT-DEL insted. Or hotkey a "Kill Eve" process to button 5 on their mouse to instalog. You dont solve anything. The problem is not CTRL-Q. The problem is people logging off as a "Get out of jail free" card. This "Get out of Jail free" card has been fixed on test server, or so it appears, so when you log in a bubble, you sit in that bubble until you dissapear. I would suspect it would make it in the next TQ patch. -- In Internet Explorer, You keep tabs on your browser. In Soviet Russia, browser keeps tabs on you
Selk Cantor Minmatar Dark Nebula Gallente Division Aftermath Alliance	Posted - 2007.03.15 10:34:00 - [33] Logoffski is great when going linkdead from a major lag spike in a mission, so you don't lose all those nice expensive isk grinding mods. But it should be simple enough to limit people who go offline from being able to warp away when it would otherwise be impossible due to jamming or a warp bubble. That would be a nice compromise to both pve and pvp, which should have been there all along.
TKarrde	Posted - 2007.03.15 10:34:00 - [34] Edited by: TKarrde on 15/03/2007 10:35:30 OMG, a real BoBbit! CCP has already fixed logoffski. The bugfix is called "Covert Ops". Quit whining, put in the SP, and enjoy your free kills. I know I do! Seriously though folks.. just remove the warpout function from Logging Out. Change the UI for Eve Online's .exe to respond to CTRL-ALT-DELETE with "Are you sure you want to log out? Yes/No", etc. And if that doesn't work, make linkdead players immune to damage for the whole 90 seconds or so before they go poof. Make it tougher to log in instantly so you don't see *****s sploiting with it to tank.. whatever they want. Ultimately though these problems will never be addressed until the entire game is ruthlessly exploiting them. As long as the Devs can pretend it's just a few select *****s they'll view it as a bannable offense instead of "we need to fix this NOW".
Drasked North Face Force	Posted - 2007.03.15 10:56:00 - [35] There is 1 fix needed to solve this problem; 1.) Make the aggro timer apply even AFTER you logged out, so if you logged out and your ship is in the process of warping out and you get attacked by another player then you get an aggro timer of 15min.
Drasked North Face Force	Posted - 2007.03.15 10:56:00 - [36] There is 1 fix needed to solve this problem; 1.) Make the aggro timer apply even AFTER you logged out, so if you logged out and your ship is in the process of warping out and you get attacked by another player then you get an aggro timer of 15min.
Gabriel Karade Nulli-Secundus	Posted - 2007.03.15 11:53:00 - [37] Edited by: Gabriel Karade on 15/03/2007 11:54:21 Originally by: Bienurdau Hywoaf Currently there is no other real counter to a warp bubble field. I assume we'll see a fix for it around the same time a more legitimate counter to warp bubbles is introduced.... cough Brains cough... Edit: I just read it's finally been fixed on Sisi, I love those crazy Icelanders! :D ---------- Video - 'War-Machine'
Trooper B99 Caldari Body Count Inc. Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2007.03.15 12:37:00 - [38] Quote: it will be fixed soonÖ . . . which is an Icelandic term meaning sometime before the next ice-age. Heard a good one a while back, just make session changing give you the 15 min aggro timer. And has anyone (not at work) verfied that its been fixed on sisi, not just "heard it"? . Wirykomi Team Racer - COLOSSUS Championships Year 106 PvP Tournament Semi-Finalist - 2006 FanFest
Ashaz	Posted - 2007.03.15 12:39:00 - [39] Originally by: Lord WarATron Originally by: Ashaz From what I understood, the game knows the difference between realy dropping the connection and hitting ctrl+q. (...) That is not a solution. Changing CTRL-Q will just mean people will insted use CTRL-ALT-DEL insted. Or hotkey a "Kill Eve" process to button 5 on their mouse to instalog. You dont solve anything.(...) nono yo misunderstand me. even if you do use a "kill eve" thing or ctrl+alt+del, the computer itself shuts down eve, meaning the application will know it is beeing shut down. Surely the server will know the difference between this and a connection simply dropping. (Link Dead) Like I said from what I have understood it already knows the difference, and treats them differently. if you shut down, you imediately warp out. if you LD you stick around for a minute or so. What I am suggesting is that these two are switched around so a shutdown leaves you there long enough to be scrammed etc, while a legit crash will not get you killed, wich I belive is the intention of the whole warpoff thing. I've seen this happen myself as I used to have a problem with my computer rebooting suddenly. it once did this while I was warping in towards a target. Had I shut down, I would have been safespotted and warped back to middle of nowhere, where I had been in warp. instead appearently my ship had completed the warp and then sat there for a while. so when i logged back in I was in my pod. Got my point this time?
Aramendel Amarr Queens of the Stone Age Anarchy Empire	Posted - 2007.03.15 12:49:00 - [40] Originally by: Ashaz even if you do use a "kill eve" thing or ctrl+alt+del, the computer itself shuts down eve, meaning the application will know it is beeing shut down. Surely the server will know the difference between this and a connection simply dropping. (Link Dead) Nope. It doesn't. Exactly the same effect. If you shut the program down the connection simply ends - you basically cut off it's head, it doesn't have time to say anything. And, even if it would - I can unplug my network cable within 5 seconds if I felt like it.

Adago Vilon	Posted - 2007.03.15 13:27:00 - [41] I was recently a 'victim' of a lame arse logoffski type. After killing his well kitted out raven and having him directly in a disrupt bubble he proceeded to log, not allowing us to pop his sorry pod. It wouldn't be so bad as we got our probe dude doing his thing, but he then proceeded to deliberately log on and off for the next 15 mins, barely escaping the clutches of our prober, until his aggro timer wore off. We petitioned but got the preverbial go tell someone who gives a hoot in reply. The fix is simple, restrict the number of times you can log on/off within a particular time frame. Say, 5 times every 15mins. This would prevent cowards like the above from escaping their fate while allowing a fair window of opportunity for people to realise that there is something wrong with their connection and they should stop playing for a while to do something about it. If they get podded during a genuine connection drop then let them petition. The fact that this is possible reduces the integrity of the game. If people fly with expensive implants or have forgotten to upgrade their clone and get podded, tuff *****. I have had genuine connection drops and lost covert ops frigs and pods. I use the petition function which IMO is fair and I got reimbursed - although not for my expensive implants I hasten to add. Apologies that this turned into somewhat of a rant. /rant over
Herculite Hunters Agency Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2007.03.15 14:01:00 - [42] I hear a dev was going to respond to this but he felt it was easier to ctrl+q than deal with the consequences of his actions. I keed I keed, because I love.
Ashaz	Posted - 2007.03.15 14:27:00 - [43] Originally by: Aramendel Originally by: Ashaz even if you do use a "kill eve" thing or ctrl+alt+del, the computer itself shuts down eve, meaning the application will know it is beeing shut down.(...) Nope. It doesn't. Exactly the same effect. If you shut the program down the connection simply ends - you basically cut off it's head, it doesn't have time to say anything. And, even if it would - I can unplug my network cable within 5 seconds if I felt like it. So you're saying windows simply destroys an active process, leaving memmory allocations and caches etc. intact, instead of telling it to shut down? I find that rather hard to belive realy. and about puling the plug. Sure there is always that posabillity. But that realy is takeing it alot further then simply hitting two keys. Some tards would probably use it, but surely not as many as uses the ctrl+q today.
Nostic	Posted - 2007.03.15 14:29:00 - [44] Edited by: Nostic on 15/03/2007 14:26:17 If this had been "fixed" over the last 6 months, then about 95% of the fleets in the souther coalition vs ragoon war would have been killed without a fight. Jumping a fleet through a gate into another fleet is unbeleivably laggy, and it sometimes takes up to 5 minutes to get everything to load. If emergency warps no longer work, then entire fleets are going to be destroyed while they're sitting around waiting for things to come up on their overview. Should find some solutions to the serious lag problem before bandaids for the lag are removed.
Bienurdau Hywoaf Minmatar Matari Holo News Network	Posted - 2007.03.15 14:31:00 - [45] Originally by: Gabriel Karade Edited by: Gabriel Karade on 15/03/2007 11:54:21 Originally by: Bienurdau Hywoaf Currently there is no other real counter to a warp bubble field. I assume we'll see a fix for it around the same time a more legitimate counter to warp bubbles is introduced.... cough Brains cough... Edit: I just read it's finally been fixed on Sisi, I love those crazy Icelanders! :D There is no way out of a properly deployed bubble, assuming they have a team on the gate, no ship is fast enough. If they have a couple damage dealers you can't destroy the bubble before they destroy you either. Therefore there is no real way to counter a bubble, which is wrong, its good they are fixing the logoff tactics but its just gonna increase more outcry on not having a counter which their should be. And yes I mean a counter other than the logoff or launching your own warp bubble that overlaps with the first.....(I think that one is considered and exploit too) Wouldn't be hard to code one they could code another probe that destroys the warp bubble or suspends it for a few moments allowing you to escape. Idea: Treaties
Herculite Hunters Agency Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2007.03.15 14:52:00 - [46] Originally by: Nostic Edited by: Nostic on 15/03/2007 14:26:17 If this had been "fixed" over the last 6 months, then about 95% of the fleets in the souther coalition vs ragoon war would have been killed without a fight. Jumping a fleet through a gate into another fleet is unbeleivably laggy, and it sometimes takes up to 5 minutes to get everything to load. If emergency warps no longer work, then entire fleets are going to be destroyed while they're sitting around waiting for things to come up on their overview. Should find some solutions to the serious lag problem before bandaids for the lag are removed.
Aramendel Amarr Queens of the Stone Age Anarchy Empire	Posted - 2007.03.15 14:55:00 - [47] Originally by: Ashaz So you're saying windows simply destroys an active process, leaving memmory allocations and caches etc. intact, instead of telling it to shut down? I find that rather hard to belive realy. What do you think is killing a task via the taskmanager? It's normal purpose is to kill applications which are unresponsive. Meaning those which to not react on a "please shut down" message from windows. ctrl-q is the nice "please shut down" request. Alt-f4 is a swift kick out of the door. But ctrl-alt-del-end task is the guillotine. It's the last option when you want to end a process which is unreponsive. So, yes, windows then simply destroys an active process and then cleans up the cache of it, because there is no other way. Believe it or if you do not inform yourself. Or choose to ignore it. Quote: and about puling the plug. Sure there is always that posabillity. But that realy is takeing it alot further then simply hitting two keys. Some tards would probably use it, but surely not as many as uses the ctrl+q today. Why? It is not in any way more difficult than ctrl-q. Find network cable. Unplug. About as difficult as using a light switch. Alternatively you can also just pull your power cable for the PC (although unnecessary brute force when you can just pull the network cable). You can also configure most firewalls to sever your internet connection (aka block all incoming/outgoing signals) the "soft" way with a keystroke.
Delwin Amber	Posted - 2007.03.15 14:55:00 - [48] Originally by: Ashaz So you're saying windows simply destroys an active process, leaving memory allocations and caches etc. intact, instead of telling it to shut down? I find that rather hard to believe really. That's exactly what it does. http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?url=/library/en-us/cpref/html/frlrfsystemdiagnosticsprocessclasskilltopic.asp Ctrl-Alt-Del and kill process is the same as calling a 'Kill' whereas Ctrl-Q or even hitting esc and clicking Quit is the same as a 'CloseMainWindow'. Kill is the OS removing the process and all it's allocated memory/handles and CloseMainWindow is the process cleaning up after itself and then closing nicely.
Herculite Hunters Agency Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2007.03.15 14:55:00 - [49] Originally by: Nostic Edited by: Nostic on 15/03/2007 14:26:17 If this had been "fixed" over the last 6 months, then about 95% of the fleets in the souther coalition vs ragoon war would have been killed without a fight. Jumping a fleet through a gate into another fleet is unbeleivably laggy, and it sometimes takes up to 5 minutes to get everything to load. If emergency warps no longer work, then entire fleets are going to be destroyed while they're sitting around waiting for things to come up on their overview. Should find some solutions to the serious lag problem before bandaids for the lag are removed. B.S. Having been on both ends of many gate camps, the lag is the lag. Jumping in, I get lag, when they jump in, I get lag. I've never been in a fight where only ONE side got lag. Perhaps if the zerg tried to crash nodes less, you would have less of an issue here, but I'm sorry but your reason is crap.
Herculite Hunters Agency Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2007.03.15 15:13:00 - [50] Laugh, they edited the title. Its called loggonski/loggoffski for a reason CCP.

Gaogan Gallente Solar Storm	Posted - 2007.03.15 15:18:00 - [51] The solution is very simple and has been implemented in every other MMO out there, and if you aren't familiar with it, then you have been living under a rock. You disconnect from the server, for any reason, and you sit there for a period of time sufficient for your opponent to finish killing you if you were already in combat. You want to log out safely? Then ctrl-q starts a countdown where you can not move or enter combat and if the countdown reaches 0, you disconnect and immediately vanish from the game. Ewarp fits into this picture just fine provided that it respects the warp scrambling ability of bubbles, and the vanish delay after you reach your safe spot so you can be probed out.
Sebastien LeReparteur Minmatar V.I.T.R.I.O.L.	Posted - 2007.03.15 15:44:00 - [52] I have an easy solution! When a player dies is ship ain't destroyed no more but goes in a ghost realm where you need to go back to you wreck and you re materialize! Oh wait... And yet this is the big issue LOST == Sadness and Sadness == I WILL DO ANYTHING NEVER TO BE SAD AGAIN!
Awegasm	Posted - 2007.03.15 16:16:00 - [53] Edited by: Awegasm on 15/03/2007 16:13:21 Originally by: Herculite Originally by: Nostic Edited by: Nostic on 15/03/2007 14:26:17 If this had been "fixed" over the last 6 months, then about 95% of the fleets in the souther coalition vs ragoon war would have been killed without a fight. Jumping a fleet through a gate into another fleet is unbeleivably laggy, and it sometimes takes up to 5 minutes to get everything to load. If emergency warps no longer work, then entire fleets are going to be destroyed while they're sitting around waiting for things to come up on their overview. Should find some solutions to the serious lag problem before bandaids for the lag are removed. B.S. Having been on both ends of many gate camps, the lag is the lag. Jumping in, I get lag, when they jump in, I get lag. I've never been in a fight where only ONE side got lag. Perhaps if the zerg tried to crash nodes less, you would have less of an issue here, but I'm sorry but your reason is crap. The side without the grid loaded is always at the disadvantage. The people jumping in have to simultaneously load all of the information about the system, reload their allies, load all the hostiles, and load an absurd amount of drones. The side with the grid loaded only has to load the people who jumped through.
welsh wizard 0utbreak	Posted - 2007.03.15 16:16:00 - [54] How about a punishment system for repeating offenders? First time it happens within a 30 second period straight after jumping give them the benefit of the doubt. Say 5 log offs straight after jumping and you get a warning or something. :P
Harlequinn Caldari Confederation of Red Moon Red Moon Federation	Posted - 2007.03.15 16:24:00 - [55] Edited by: Harlequinn on 15/03/2007 16:23:10 Edited by: Harlequinn on 15/03/2007 16:22:19 Originally by: TKarrde Edited by: TKarrde on 15/03/2007 10:35:30 OMG, a real BoBbit! CCP has already fixed logoff.snip - Ivan K The bugfix is called "Covert Ops". Quit whining, put in the SP, and enjoy your free kills. I know I do! You have no clue about how logoff professionals work if you think probes are the solution. It's impossible to scan them down as they are invulnerable and unable to be targeted, or simply not there as they logon and logoff rapidly and they magically shift safe spots each time they do it they do it. I'm phenomenal with probes and nailed one RA logoff professional about 20 different times as he passed though 6 different gates. Each time it was as I described above and I got deviation 0 results to him every time. We chased him for six systems unable to kill him every single time we found his SS. If what they say about test server fixing this is true then my faith in CCP is renewed. This was going to be a game killer for me. Your signature exceeds the maximum allowed filesize of 24000 bytes -Sahwoolo Etoophie ([email protected])
Crumplecorn Gallente Eve Cluster Explorations	Posted - 2007.03.15 16:32:00 - [56] The solution is to punish real disconnects too. There's no way around it. It's not all bad, when people come online and start whining "what do you mean I need a good internet connection to play a MMORPG?" that's a whole new class of noobs to laugh at. - If you go into your options menu, there's a difficulty slider. Put that all the way over to the easiest setting and you'll be fine.
Miss Anthropy School of Applied Knowledge	Posted - 2007.03.15 16:40:00 - [57] Originally by: Kirex Edited by: Kirex on 15/03/2007 01:53:23 How would you go about fixing this? Can't really control when a pilot can log on and off. edit: I kinda got an idea, how about only x amount of people can log on/off within 30 seconds or so? It should help with mass log off/ons. x can equal 1/10 of the current people in system or something. Er, a bit complex. A simpler idea would be to implement the same logoff style as WoW (the only good feature of WoW); 20 second countdown once logoff is activated while in space, instant logoff while in a station.
Jon Hawkes The Littlest Hobos	Posted - 2007.03.15 16:47:00 - [58] My concern over the issue of ships staying in warp bubbles, whether the pilot suffers a disconnect or deliberately logs off, is what happens to those pilots who "emergency warp" due to their clients not loading up in time? As it stands now, when jumping into a very busy system, you often emergency warp and emerge 1,000,000 km from the gate. If the ship is no longer able to do this, and just sits in the bubble while the player's screen just shows blank space, I can see a whole load of less scrupulous individuals/alliances using all sorts of nasty lag-generating ploys to deliberately slow down the Eve clients of any incoming traffic, thus giving their targets (who most likely would not deliberately log off) no chance to either run or fight...
Shamis Orzoz Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2007.03.15 17:14:00 - [59] Edited by: Shamis Orzoz on 15/03/2007 19:06:29 Why bother fixing game breaking logout mechanics when you could add integrated voice chat? Or better yet, how about a graphics engine overhaul? I mean, look at the new map. Aren't you psyched that ccp put all the work into adding this new AWESOME seamless map? You don't know how many times I thank my lucky stars that I can ctrl click on the enemy target while zooming out with my mouse wheel and open the map. And the clarity of not being able to zoom into a flattened map sure did fix that pesky problem of knowing where I'm going. There are far better things CCP could be working on than this stupid logout stuff, perhaps a complete overhaul of the proplusion system? That seems like the best use of their time. EDIT: lol, apparently this is actually fixed on the test server. FINALLY. Glad the bug report we filed 1 year ago finally got looked at. Shamis
Frug Zenithal Harvest	Posted - 2007.03.15 18:53:00 - [60] Originally by: Jon Hawkes My concern over the issue of ships staying in warp bubbles, whether the pilot suffers a disconnect or deliberately logs off, is what happens to those pilots who "emergency warp" due to their clients not loading up in time? As it stands now, when jumping into a very busy system, you often emergency warp and emerge 1,000,000 km from the gate. If the ship is no longer able to do this, and just sits in the bubble while the player's screen just shows blank space, I can see a whole load of less scrupulous individuals/alliances using all sorts of nasty lag-generating ploys to deliberately slow down the Eve clients of any incoming traffic, thus giving their targets (who most likely would not deliberately log off) no chance to either run or fight... First sensible reason I've heard anybody bring up in defense of how the logoff system works. - - - - - - - - - - Do not use dotted lines - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - or automatic signatures - - - - - - - - "186,282 miles per second; It's not just a good idea, it's the law."



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