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Riddick Valer	Posted - 2007.03.18 20:29:00 - [1] Edited by: Rid*** Valer on 18/03/2007 20:58:03* New ship class: Suicide Ships RP Justification: These are small ships with little or no weapons, that are designed purely for sucide ramming. In a clone/pod civilization, this would clearly have been developed long before now. All it takes is a small, fast ship that has had all available weapon and cargo space turned into holding explosive charges of some type. Upon detonation the ship is completely destroyed, with a smart-bomb type effect, but much larger. Even an intercepter can hold an ungodly ammount of torpedoes in its cargo bay. Now imagine that same ship, without fire control taking up space, and its entire cargohold filled with just the torpedo warheads, not even propellent. This would be a phenomonal ammount of firepower, capable of doing significant damage to a BS, with multiple suicide runs (3) popping a BS, and with enough ships (8-10) even a dreadnought. Mechanics: 1 medium slot, 1 high. High contains a "Suicide Charge" that when activated explodes with the force of several smart bombs, instantly destroying the ship and pod of its owner. The ship has a base velocity similiar to an interceptor. Advantages: Forces fleets to have some counter to small fast ships with a tiny sig radius. This would lead to proper screening elements of frigates and cruiers. It would also prevent blobs, as suicide ships would damage several ships that are grouped closely together. Disadvantages: Could lead to abuse by alts. Counter to the Disadvantates: Suicide runs couldn't be done in groups, but would have to be slightly spread. Otherwise, the first ship that detonates would destroy the other ships. Without a proper detonation sequence (rp reason), the warheads in the other ships fail to explode, ruining their use. However, runs of multiple suicide ships spaced out correctly could be useful, but counterable by the enemy fleet's screen. Also, make requirements for the ship fairly high, to prevent alts from gaining the ability to fly the ship easily. I would expect: Navigation 5 Evasive Manuevering 5 Spaceship Command 5 Acceleration Control 5 High Speed Manuevering 5 (RP justification: All needed for the ship to be fast and nimble enough to close with the enemy) Racial Frigate 5 Interceptor 4 (See above) Electronics 5 Warhead Upgrades 5 Nuclear Physics 3 Plasma Phyics 3 (allow arming of the suicide charge) Infomorph Psychology 4 (dealing with psychological stress of repeated self-podding)
Scagga Laebetrovo Delictum 23216	Posted - 2007.03.18 20:47:00 - [2] I like it. Delictum 23216 Official forums
Niccolado Starwalker Shadow Templars	Posted - 2007.03.18 22:18:00 - [3] Not really needed, since all ships theoretically can be suicide ships. Originally by: Eldo Davip PORTRAITS OMFG WOOT. WE R GONIG FOR MROE BREEE!!!!11
Vincent Almasy Gallente The Underground	Posted - 2007.03.18 22:56:00 - [4] Does the pilot atleast get podded?
Gnord	Posted - 2007.03.18 23:27:00 - [5] Edited by: Gnord on 18/03/2007 23:24:22 I like it. Require Advanced spaceship command, the only ship that req's adv. command and NOT captial ships is freighter. Basically adv. spaceship command is totally useless skill because you either don't need it or you need to train it all the way to five. If more ships are thrown in to adv command without needing all the way to 5, this would improve it's purpose. /Signed As for podded, yea, Rid**** said that. The suicide run destroys the pod as well as the suicide ship. This would make a good tier 2 destroyer, and fits the destroyer's purpose: high firepower, small ship.
Z SirOm Vertigo Project Coalition Of Empires	Posted - 2007.03.19 15:54:00 - [6] Bad idea, this isnt a terrorist game ... ------------------------------- Z SirOm Vertigo Project Current adverts WTS 2x Phoenix BPC Me2 WTS Retriever BPC Me50
Sirenia Daptari	Posted - 2007.03.19 16:10:00 - [7] Originally by: Z SirOm Bad idea, this isnt a terrorist game ...
NumberFour	Posted - 2007.03.19 16:13:00 - [8] Originally by: Z SirOm Bad idea, this isnt a terrorist game ... I agree, something about this is just wrong.
PaPaDesAster	Posted - 2007.03.19 16:43:00 - [9] Originally by: NumberFour Originally by: Z SirOm Bad idea, this isnt a terrorist game ... I agree, something about this is just wrong. Disagree, this is not about reallife but a world, where you insta-wakeup in your clone. Death is not final anymore, so I can't see a prob with becoming a kami-warhead-tank, heading with full speed into desaster. Now... what countermeasures...?
Draconyx	Posted - 2007.03.19 17:25:00 - [10] The problem is as you say abuse. THis would lead to gank squads all over high sec destroying miners and haulers at will. Griefing would be a BIG problem. I see no reason to give griefers another weapon. In 0.0 it would turn into a giant suicide fleet wars. I think it would take to much out of the game and not give enough back. Even if the price was incredably high there are alot of corps and alliances that can spend money and abuse this.
velocity7	Posted - 2007.03.19 17:57:00 - [11] Edited by: velocity7 on 19/03/2007 17:54:47 I have a better idea. How about suiciding at warp speed, with 90% chance of being podded for doing so? There'd probably be a skillbook too called "Warp Ramming", which will reduce the chance of death by 5% per level. Of course, don't even think about warp ramming your pod. Unless of course, you want the full 100% chance of death (which doesn't get dropped by skillbooks, by the way).
Cybarite Gallente Aristotle Enterprises Ethereal Dawn	Posted - 2007.03.20 05:05:00 - [12] has anybody thought about what this would to to Jita?
Kirika Misono War by Proxy	Posted - 2007.03.20 05:39:00 - [13] Originally by: Cybarite has anybody thought about what this would to to Jita? Yes, yes I did, and that's why I liked it. I've thought of this one before myself, as did the Japanese Imperial Navy. (It's called a Sakura.) As far as EVE not being a terrorist game.... bull**. Terrorism is a fundimental part of EVE. They're called 'pirates' and you may have seen them around gates in low sec ganking newbs and attacking carebears and anyone else in reach. Is there a potential for greifing? Hell yes. There's a potential for greifing with smarties, too. To me the suicide ship is the ultimate in anti-gank/blob weapons. Know there's a pirate gank on the other side of this gate? Fly the fireship on in and unleash Hell. Wouold Goonswarm/Privateer abuse the crap out of this? Of Course. But in all honesty, there are plenty of rules and scenarios that are allready abused (logoffs, etc) This at least is one that has panache. Originally by:** Clementina If you bug report it, you get ignored. If you post about it on the forums, you get banned. If you exploit it, you get rich.
Tian Xiao Caldari	Posted - 2007.03.20 12:44:00 - [14] I really like this idea. Make them fast like Interceptors, but easier to kill. Suggest both a higher sig radius and lower hitpoints. Fleet commanders would need to nominate them as primary :) Frigs and Destroyers would be tasked to eliminate them ASAP. Unsure if they should explode with their primary charge when you shoot them down. I suspect they shouldn't. :P
Tom Deal	Posted - 2007.03.20 13:46:00 - [15] Edited by: Tom Deal on 20/03/2007 13:44:33 KAMIKAZE SHIPS? Thats a possibility with a historic identity of the human nature. Even more. At a world where the complete destruction of your body doesnt mean your dead. The lost isnt greater than Real Life Kamikases. Why not? This is a war game and that doesnt mean war is good. So dont come with false moral questions. TD
Drethon Gallente Knights Hospitalier Privateer Alliance	Posted - 2007.03.20 14:26:00 - [16] I think this is a great idea with one addition, the ships are "illegal". For the same type of reason that cyno fields are not allowed in high sec, this type of ship would be something the would be blown up by Concord unless you accomplished your mission first. Also the ship would be excellent in fleet battles for taking out specific targets fast.
Riddick Valer	Posted - 2007.03.20 14:38:00 - [17] I like the addition of making them illegal in high-sec. It would prevent a lot of abuse. Also, as someone pointed out, this has historical context, not just a terrorism weapon. They should be relatively fast and easy to kill. No excess mass is being spent on armor or shielding, just the bare minimum. The goal is to make them as fast as possible and still aloow someone to pack them full of antimatter.
Mystriana Veritania	Posted - 2007.03.20 19:03:00 - [18] Good ideas most of them. I would make a couple of small changes as well: 1)no shields and only marginal armor. SHields are mainly to prevent damage for longer, with fast ship it wouldn't need the shields due to it intent or focus. NO shields would also make it easier to destroy. 2) Give a standings penalty to the whole corp of anyone that uses one in high sec 3) Use an agression timer like there is now but designate it on the whole corp of the pilot that used the ship. This would hold the corp accountable and make them suffer the penalties of not monitoring their pilots and increase the cost of using the kamikaze. It also would have historical base: look at how the other countries opinion of japan changed with the increased use of kamikaze pilots. It got worse as a whole.
Kirika Misono War by Proxy	Posted - 2007.03.20 20:56:00 - [19] Originally by: Mystriana Veritania It also would have historical base: look at how the other countries opinion of japan changed with the increased use of kamikaze pilots. It got worse as a whole. Point of fact, Germany had a similar idea, but the pilots were given the optionm of bailing out before impact. Originally by: Clementina If you bug report it, you get ignored. If you post about it on the forums, you get banned. If you exploit it, you get rich.
VJ Maverick Caldari Maverick Specialized Services	Posted - 2007.03.20 21:20:00 - [20] Originally by: Z SirOm Bad idea, this isnt a terrorist game ... Suicide attacks are not a terrorist concept. Ever hear of Kamikaze?
Miss KillSome	Posted - 2007.03.21 16:49:00 - [21] hmm.. interesting idea..would be good for clearing out the next system g8 camp.. it would need some activation timer for that big bomb though..and if u dont detonate bomb, u pop just like a shuttle.. maybe introducing shuttle II, with one low, one mid and one high slot, designated for this action, mid for mwd, high for bomb, low for some cap relay or dmg mod for this bomb.. this bomb cannot be triggered in empire..
Jillius Gallente Steel Battalion The Sundering	Posted - 2007.03.22 11:57:00 - [22] I love the idea. But wouldt it be beter to have a module for that?
Riddick Valer	Posted - 2007.03.22 13:02:00 - [23] I originally thought a module, but it would have to have significant -%hp for shields, armor, and hull. The goal is to have a ship that is easy to pop, but can do massive ammounts of damage if allowed to close with your fleet. It would be best for frigates, both T1 and T2. They are small, fast, and would make more RP sense then suicide omni-tank BS.
Uhmari Amarr The Imperial Commonwealth	Posted - 2007.03.22 13:19:00 - [24] I happen to agree with the idea of "suicide ships". Long ago, in eve, when a ship was destroyed, it renderd "debree" that caused damage to friendly/hostile ships when striking another ship. Something i miss a lot. The idea of such ships is a good one, however, it shouldent be a "set ship" or such, rather, it should be a weapon. Also other factors of the ships destruction should take effect; in effect, the new suicide thing should be based on a new "war-head" weapon. that basically compacts the ship with explosives, Causing AOE damage. Does the ship/pilot get podded, I would say that would have to do with a "damage, to the ships shields, armor ratio". IE, that extenders or plating could prevent the destruction of that ship, But, other facts would need to take effect also, Ship size, mass, Speed before impact, as well as the ships "shields/armor/hull". -feed imput on this idea, lets see if we can refine it. Empires are built on conquest and war, not peace and trade.
Tyson Gallane Caldari Political Warfare Executive	Posted - 2007.03.22 16:55:00 - [25] The pod would need to blow with the ship. Otherwise it'd be too weird. People saying "I jetted in, detonated my massive suicide bomb, then escaped in my pod". Where's the sacrifice? TG> ---------------------------------------------- "I can picture in my mind a world without war, a world without hate. And I can picture us attacking that world, because they'd never expect it."
Drethon Gallente Knights Hospitalier Privateer Alliance	Posted - 2007.03.24 03:07:00 - [26] The pod not blowing up isn't that unrealistic, heard of shaped charges? These charges can blow out a wall without hurting the person standing directly behind them (not that it always works that way )
Tom Deal	Posted - 2007.03.29 20:07:00 - [27] Originally by: Kirika Misono Point of fact, Germany had a similar idea, but the pilots were given the optionm of bailing out before impact. Yep, something like this could be uor prblem solution: No kamikase pod kill how? Well, just press the "Pod Eject" Button before the impact. I believe that would be nice for major war scenarios. - KAMIKASES!!! BANZAIIIIIII !!!!!!
Serok Vaportrail Logistics	Posted - 2007.03.29 20:53:00 - [28] I would rather be able to upgrade my pod so that if I lose my ship in battle I have the option of gloriously detonating my pod as a last ditch effort. This is something I have thought about before. Possibility of instant revenge if the battle was close. I could see adding a demo ship if the explosives increased it's signature radius a great deal so there is at least some chance of stopping it before it gets to you. Maybe when you pop it, it still does some damage due to the payload, but not as much as if it had detonated with the pilot in it. Anyway you cut it, I think the pod should be destroyed. -- Long is the way, and hard, that out of hell leads up to light.

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