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Ren Tales Null Horizon	Posted - 2007.03.20 08:57:00 - [1] Edited by: Ren Tales on 20/03/2007 08:54:43 Edited by: Ren Tales on 20/03/2007 08:53:27 Hurricane: 6x 220mm t2 autos, 2x E50 nos 10mn mwd, web, scram, medium cap booster 2x medium rep II, EANM, DC II, 2x gyro Hammerhead II, 4x warrior IIs 300 dps, dual rep tank, 55% ish resists on all by EXP, which is 55% ish with an exp rig. Myrmidon: 4x E50 nos, 2x t2 light neutrons 10mn mwd, web, scram, cap booster, utility slot (sensor booster, another scram, another web, tracking disruptor, damp, ECCM, whatever i fell like that night) 2x medium rep II, 3x hards or 2x EANM 1x exp hard, dc II 3x ogres 1x berserker 5x warrior IIs (nerfs DPS a bit but I like knowing I can scare off ceptors) or 3x ogre 2x berserker if I'm in a gang or feeling overconfident 57 ish resists passive, 68-72 resists if active. 270 dps with warriors, 300 with full heavies. 2 more nos than the hurricane, same speed -100ms with MWD, massive rep bonus. I use both of these setups and love them to death, but the myrmidon is simply the better ship. Strait up compare the numbers. Same DPS as a gank setup on the hurricane, and WAY better tank. I see no reason to fly the hurricane over the myrmidon for strait up ownage factor. The myrmidon is simply a better ship. Anyone have any reason they think the hurricane is better? And yes I know about the nano cane, I don't like flying it. I know I can get good hits at 6-12km with the cane, but if a myrmidon can chase something down easily and web it whats the point of that advantage? I don't see any ballance here (i've never lost a drone flying a myrm, and yes I've had PvPers shoot at them. I just scoop and redeploy, never lost one) It bears mentioning I don't even have t2 EANM or heavies yet, they're both in training for the near future. But with t2 EANM or active hards, the gap is even more obvious. I can get the ogre II and berserker IIs to eke out another 40-50 dps, and the EANM and hardener gap between the two ships gets bigger as the ship bonus boosted Reppers rep even more effective tank/sec. I love my hurricane to death, its actually my favorite over the myrmidon, largely because the myrmidon is a bit cheap (as in lame, not as in inexpensive), but ti's simply outperformed in every way. ----
kill0rbunny Chimera Chaos Squadron Privateer Alliance	Posted - 2007.03.20 09:03:00 - [2] Edited by: kill0rbunny on 20/03/2007 08:59:59 Myrm is the best tier 2 battlecruiser imho and does not only outperform the cane, but any single other battlecruiser and most hacs. It's an extremely good ship which imho is ridiculously cheap according to what it can do.
ArtemisEntreri	Posted - 2007.03.20 09:03:00 - [3] Hurricane is a better tackler, and the myrmidon can get its drones popped which isn't fun. Just depends on the situation but it most cases myrmidon is better
slothe Caldari 0utbreak	Posted - 2007.03.20 09:06:00 - [4] myrmidon- 2x t2 med nos, 4x dual 180 t2 autos mwd, disruptor, web med cap booster senor dampner 2x mart2, 2x t2 eanm, t2 energised reactive membrane, damage control t2 personally i dont like small guns on a medium sized ship. myrmidon has no gun damage bonus so i choose cap neutral autos. decent tracking and damage. with a few rigs its even better. sensor dampner means you can micro manage drones better.
Ren Tales Null Horizon	Posted - 2007.03.20 09:10:00 - [5] Edited by: Ren Tales on 20/03/2007 09:06:33 Originally by: slothe myrmidon- 2x t2 med nos, 4x dual 180 t2 autos mwd, disruptor, web med cap booster senor dampner 2x mart2, 2x t2 eanm, t2 energised reactive membrane, damage control t2 personally i dont like small guns on a medium sized ship. myrmidon has no gun damage bonus so i choose cap neutral autos. decent tracking and damage. with a few rigs its even better. sensor dampner means you can micro manage drones better. you'll be doing about 20 more DPS than my setup and nosing 2x medium nos less (t2 small neuts = t2 medium electrons -2%) I'll stick with the lights myself. Cap neutral guns < 2 more nos. ----
Ryysa North Face Force Privateer Alliance	Posted - 2007.03.20 09:23:00 - [6] Uhm. Cane will easily win vs myrmidon 1v1 if you have any brains at all ;) Same reason why vaga wins vs myrm. And I do know it takes a ****load of time :P But in a gang environment (not too large gang), I'd say myrm ftw. If gang gets really big, then a cane with arties + mwd + light tank is just pure magic :) N.F.F. Recruitment
Ren Tales Null Horizon	Posted - 2007.03.20 09:42:00 - [7] Originally by: Ren Tales And yes I know about the nano cane, I don't like flying it. I know I can get good hits at 6-12km with the cane, but if a myrmidon can chase something down easily and web it whats the point of that advantage? Also, I'm talking which is better to fly, not which will beat the other. Just like a taranis will own most crows, but I'd rather pirate in a crow than a ranis. Yes, maybe a cane can kill a myrm, but a myrm will kill other things way better. ----
Kagura Nikon Minmatar MASS HOMICIDE	Posted - 2007.03.20 10:45:00 - [8] Originally by: Ryysa Uhm. Cane will easily win vs myrmidon 1v1 if you have any brains at all ;) Same reason why vaga wins vs myrm. And I do know it takes a ****load of time :P But in a gang environment (not too large gang), I'd say myrm ftw. If gang gets really big, then a cane with arties + mwd + light tank is just pure magic :) well you know very well that the vagabond (in skilled hands) is unfair against any medium ship :). it can keep EASILy at limit of warp scrambling (22 km now) when any drone goes into your direction you pop it. When he is out of drones you erase him just getting a bit closer . The cane have aharder time since its far slower. Anyway the mirmidon is overpowered because it can chalange any BC on any class of specialization. If brute force doesn't solve your problem... you are not using enough
Perry Amarr The X-Trading Company Dusk and Dawn	Posted - 2007.03.20 11:21:00 - [9] Welcome to: Gallente - Online feat. DJ Nano vs MC Logoff ________________ Kali 2.0 Patchnotes; "Cleared old and useless Database entries": 1) All Amarr Ships have been deleted
Kagura Nikon Minmatar MASS HOMICIDE	Posted - 2007.03.20 12:02:00 - [10] The funny thing is how gallente pilots were complaining prior to Kali that the Myrmidon was useless and the worse of all BC.... please CCP make minmatar have the worse ship next time... If brute force doesn't solve your problem... you are not using enough

Ariel Dawn SniggWaffe Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2007.03.20 12:43:00 - [11] Edited by: Ariel Dawn on 20/03/2007 12:39:36 Myrm wipes the floor with practically any non-BS ship it can get in bumping range with using Heavy IIs. Hurricane is a fun ship, but you have to hope that any Myrms you engage have no idea what they're doing otherwise you're boned.
Swamp Ziro EPSILON TEAM	Posted - 2007.03.20 13:53:00 - [12] SO they removed the 7th turret and 50pg from the Hurricane to make it less overpowered, and leave the myrmidon as is Figures
Terell Brutor tribe	Posted - 2007.03.20 16:04:00 - [13] i decent hurricane pilot can kill easily any myrmidon.
Kagura Nikon Minmatar MASS HOMICIDE	Posted - 2007.03.20 16:15:00 - [14] Originally by: Terell i decent hurricane pilot can kill easily any myrmidon. You know that is not true. Even if the myrmidon don't launch its drones it can Nos completely the Hurricane and use this to keep his armor repaired (since it can out rep any BC. But of course he wil launch his drones, and I fear much more when he uses medium drones.... and when you are out of cap charges you will die slowly. You can defeat dump or low SP Myrmidon pilots or setups that are completely gank oriented (no NOS). Because a NOS myrmidon with good tank and medium drones is too resilent to be killed by anything smaller than a Battleship. So you need to count with the Myrm pilot making mistakes. If brute force doesn't solve your problem... you are not using enough
Ariel Dawn SniggWaffe Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2007.03.20 16:31:00 - [15] Originally by: Terell i decent hurricane pilot can kill easily any myrmidon. A Myrmidon can tank about 500-550 DPS for practically forever, which is about how much Hurricanes do that are set up for damage. Meanwhile the Hurricane is tanking practically 0 DPS because it's cap gets nossed/neuted away. Ogre IIs tear through you very quickly.
R'adeh Gallente Gekidoku Koroshiya Buntai	Posted - 2007.03.20 17:20:00 - [16] I got a 100% spec Gallente char, and a 100% spec Minmatar char...and tbh, I couldn't tell you who'd win the fight. All those X vs. Y discussions are stupid because there's just too many factors to consider. Char skills, player skill, setup, luck, etc... If I know I have to tank, I'll chose the Myrmidon. Same reason for chosing the Sleipnir over the Eos. If I want to be a bit more mobile, without having to fear of losing 90% of my damage output if I have to warp out, I'll take the Hurricane. It's a matter of taste and depends on the individual situation. Neither the Myrmidon nor the Hurricane is better than the other in a general situation. _______________________________________________ My views are my own and I don't represent my corp.
Howi	Posted - 2007.03.20 17:22:00 - [17] Originally by: Kagura Nikon Originally by: Terell i decent hurricane pilot can kill easily any myrmidon. You know that is not true. Even if the myrmidon don't launch its drones it can Nos completely the Hurricane and use this to keep his armor repaired (since it can out rep any BC. But of course he wil launch his drones, and I fear much more when he uses medium drones.... and when you are out of cap charges you will die slowly. You can defeat dump or low SP Myrmidon pilots or setups that are completely gank oriented (no NOS). Because a NOS myrmidon with good tank and medium drones is too resilent to be killed by anything smaller than a Battleship. So you need to count with the Myrm pilot making mistakes. how u going to nos them with there orbiting u at 15km and there faster then u ?
Caius Sivaris Minmatar Dark Nexxus	Posted - 2007.03.20 18:02:00 - [18] Originally by: Ariel Dawn Originally by: Terell i decent hurricane pilot can kill easily any myrmidon. A Myrmidon can tank about 500-550 DPS for practically forever, which is about how much Hurricanes do that are set up for damage. Meanwhile the Hurricane is tanking practically 0 DPS because it's cap gets nossed/neuted away. Ogre IIs tear through you very quickly. Why would the Hurricane would be in web/nos range before the Myrmidon drones popped? Staying at 15km is pretty much the only way to avoid the Myrmidon pilot to play the scoop/redeploy game anyway. Also keeping mwd on Hurrican can outrun Ogres... And if the Hurricane doesn't care for being nossed and webbed it can shoot the Myrmidon using its falloff and eventually the Myrmidon will run out of cap charges. If the Myrmidon is the attacker manage to land within web range of the Hurricane it's pretty much guarranted victory but if not it's down to the Hurricane pilot error for the Myrmidon to bag the kill I think. It's all down to the starting range in that theorical 1vs1 I think.
Bailian Moxtain Toys R Us	Posted - 2007.03.20 20:33:00 - [19] Edited by: Bailian Moxtain on 20/03/2007 20:29:48 ppl cant kill myrmidon cos they suck. kill its drones, then the ship. I pwn! erm i do fly myrmidon.. *- made in Norway -*
Xori Ruscuv The Scope	Posted - 2007.03.20 21:38:00 - [20] Edited by: Xori Ruscuv on 20/03/2007 21:36:02 How to kill the *average* Myrmidon 1v1 with a Hurricane: 1. Dictate your range. Keep around 15 to 19km. Out of NOS range. Out of blaster range. 2. The Myrmidon will send out his heavy drones. Range is VERY important here, because you don't want the myrm pilot to be able to immediately scoop and immediately deploy. I love being able to get in an opponent's face with my blaster myrmidon. Takes no time to scoop and deploy. But if you stay at range... ouch. When they get to you, you will target them, web one, and set EVERYTHING you have on it. Make sure you aren't using tech 2 ammo at this point, so you can track it well enough. Web is essential in case the Myrmidon pilot recalls his drones. He'll send them out again... rinse and repeat. 3. The Myrmidon no longer has heavy drones. His ass is grass, and you're the lawn mower. If his nos is too much, dictate range, load barage. Remember, if he is using MWD, he's chugging cap charges like a mofo - and you are STILL going faster. 4. Profit. Disclaimer 1: That's the *average* Myrmidon scenario. If the Myrmidon pilot has a trick up his sleeve, it will be much different. Disclaimer 2: 1v1? What's that? Passive shield tank is the new WCS!

Kagura Nikon Minmatar MASS HOMICIDE The Foundation.	Posted - 2007.03.20 22:10:00 - [21] Edited by: Kagura Nikon on 20/03/2007 22:09:08 Originally by: Howi Originally by: Kagura Nikon Originally by: Terell i decent hurricane pilot can kill easily any myrmidon. You know that is not true. Even if the myrmidon don't launch its drones it can Nos completely the Hurricane and use this to keep his armor repaired (since it can out rep any BC. But of course he wil launch his drones, and I fear much more when he uses medium drones.... and when you are out of cap charges you will die slowly. You can defeat dump or low SP Myrmidon pilots or setups that are completely gank oriented (no NOS). Because a NOS myrmidon with good tank and medium drones is too resilent to be killed by anything smaller than a Battleship. So you need to count with the Myrm pilot making mistakes. how u going to nos them with there orbiting u at 15km and there faster then u ? I am a hurricane pilot.. And I know very well that at 15 km the dps of the hurricane is low enough that the Myrmidon can tank it forever with the passive regeneration of capacitor. If the Hurricane wants to kill the Myrm it needs to get at about 12 km. (yes this 3 km make significant difference. Unless it uses falloff rigs. But then the hurri won't be able to field the traditional good tank it uses. Also common Myrmydon withg dampeners will not allow you to lock at that range. Also only a stupid myr pilot would leave their drones flying into the hurricane while its too far for the scoop redeploy tactics. Also , again the dangerous Myr piot uses TEch 2 medium drones and NOS, not heavy ones. A dumb myrm pilot is easy target for anyone. A smart one is teh harderst target a BC can be. If brute force doesn't solve your problem... you are not using enough
HankMurphy Minmatar Pelennor Swarm R i s e	Posted - 2007.03.20 22:11:00 - [22] Originally by: Ren Tales Anyone have any reason they think the hurricane is better? I do! It looks better my personal opinion is nos/drone boats are a plague on eve. that aside, if the myrm/domi is the sickness, the hurrican/pest is the cure. I'm not giving out my setup, but i have yet to see another bc that can outdamage my hurricane.(T2 hvy drones? I might stop shooting your hull to knock a couple down.) ...and while i'm not giving out my setup... how would the hurricane dps look if you put some t2 hvy msls on instead of nos? From what i've seen so far, tanks and nos dont even enter the picture tbh, i lock you, you die (capless weaps 4tw) I know the same can be said from a proud myrm pilot, so lets just leave it at... they are both very capable, very fun and very well designed ships. 6 to one half dozen to the other, its all in the pilot, his skills and instincts. But if we bettin iskies, i'll put mine on my hurricane over anyone's myrm.
Foulis Minmatar Chosen Path Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2007.03.20 22:16:00 - [23] But can the myrm do... this! Hi: 1x 1400mm II (t2 ammo) 5x Small guns (anti Inty, usually autos) 2x Assault (same as autos) Med: 2x Sensor Booster, 2x Tracking Comp. Low: 6x RCU II ---- Originally by: Nikolai Nuvolari NO WORDS IN THE ENGLISH LANGUAGE ARE SPELLED WITH THE NUMBER "8" IN THEM GODDAMNIT!
Venkhar Krard	Posted - 2007.03.20 22:25:00 - [24] Edited by: Venkhar Krard on 20/03/2007 22:25:04 A skilled myrmidon pilot is a very difficult foe for a hurricane. In order to pop the drones fast(medium or heavy)you need to web them. If you web them, you dont have a web on the myrmidon which mwds closer, scoops his drones ,webs you a and pw3ns you to hell. He has lots of cap for mwd beceause he dont needs to tank, if you shoot his drones. If you choose to go in for max damage with hail, he will have a better tank (dual rep+ bonus) and will kill you faster (blasters+drones or nos+drones) If you choose to stay in falloff with barrage, you will need to tank his drones and about 50-70% of his blaster damage and kill him before he does. Its a very difficult fight for the hurricane and the myrmidon has much better chances to win.
goodby4u Logistic Technologies Incorporated Free Trade Coalition	Posted - 2007.03.20 22:28:00 - [25] Edited by: goodby4u on 20/03/2007 22:27:02 Well i agree,the myrm should have a better tank but its just laughable if it has the same dps as a ship like the hurricane with a rof bonus AND a damage bonus.... Damn you tux taking away its 7th turret!!! To fix it drop some highs on the myrm and in their place add a few m3 of dronespace. As for better to fly i say the cane is much,much more fun,but the myrm is better in most situations. __________________________________________ Yes it is great being amarr. I am minmatar,fly amarr,use gellente drones and am in caldari space.
Byzan Zwyth Dark Centuri Inc. Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2007.03.21 00:31:00 - [26] Edited by: Byzan Zwyth on 21/03/2007 00:27:56 just a hunch but I dont think the ships were balanced for a 1v1 fight with each other Both good ships, which play different roles and require different playstyles. ---------------------- Rank: Tech 1 and a 1/2 cannon fodder Pointless forum slowing bandwidth hogging signature pic inc?
Kagura Nikon Minmatar MASS HOMICIDE The Foundation.	Posted - 2007.03.21 01:42:00 - [27] Originally by: Foulis But can the myrm do... this! Hi: 1x 1400mm II (t2 ammo) 5x Small guns (anti Inty, usually autos) 2x Assault (same as autos) Med: 2x Sensor Booster, 2x Tracking Comp. Low: 6x RCU II lol!!! Perfect I will add 3 power rigs so I can fit 2 Gyro II :P Would be so funny Hey you... yeah you at 160 km.. take this! If brute force doesn't solve your problem... you are not using enough
Aurican Tetro	Posted - 2007.03.21 07:29:00 - [28] These people don't post on the forums to actually figure out how to win a fight, that's not what they're here for. They're just here to ***** about how badly they suck, and obviously, it has nothing to do with their skill, it must be that the game is unbalanced. So please, let them ramble on.
Zorth Athall Gallente Dark Knights Flight Squad	Posted - 2007.04.08 12:56:00 - [29] Perhaps I wonder how many have actually fought a Myrm vs Cane battle. Last night I took a hurricane on the gate, yes I was tanking him and the sentries, ok, he killed my drones, pretty fast, but the blasters still made piece meat of him. The kick in the but, when I finally got out, at 4% structure, he was dead. Ok so neither of us had great high end skills, but it did show that that the ships were fairly balanced. I felt the sentries pounding down on me was enough of a handicap, considering our age difference. And for the skeptics, both ships were a T1 fit.
Cividari Caldari Shiva Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2007.04.08 13:43:00 - [30] Originally by: Foulis But can the myrm do... this! Hi: 1x 1400mm II (t2 ammo) 5x Small guns (anti Inty, usually autos) 2x Assault (same as autos) Med: 2x Sensor Booster, 2x Tracking Comp. Low: 6x RCU II 1 425mm t2 and anti frig stuff 3 sensor boosters 2 tracking comps 2 RCUs 3 mag stabs 1 tracking enhancer 3 PG rigs 5 Longest range sentry drones The myrm wins again! I did manage to fit two 425mm rails in quickfit but that involved stuff like officer RCUs and I thought it was starting to get abit to silly at that point.

Phelan Lore Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2007.04.08 13:47:00 - [31] Edited by: Phelan Lore on 08/04/2007 13:42:58 Originally by: Swamp Ziro SO they removed the 7th turret and 50pg from the Hurricane to make it less overpowered, and leave the myrmidon as is Figures Actually they did that and the n gave the myrm 25m3 more drone space. -
KillmAll187	Posted - 2007.04.08 15:18:00 - [32] Originally by: Cividari Originally by: Foulis But can the myrm do... this! Hi: 1x 1400mm II (t2 ammo) 5x Small guns (anti Inty, usually autos) 2x Assault (same as autos) Med: 2x Sensor Booster, 2x Tracking Comp. Low: 6x RCU II 1 425mm t2 and anti frig stuff 3 sensor boosters 2 tracking comps 2 RCUs 3 mag stabs 1 tracking enhancer 3 PG rigs 5 Longest range sentry drones The myrm wins again! I did manage to fit two 425mm rails in quickfit but that involved stuff like officer RCUs and I thought it was starting to get abit to silly at that point. 2 425s would just about 2 volley your capacitor, hehe. So advantage-Hurricane.
Ath Amon	Posted - 2007.04.08 16:43:00 - [33] /rant mode on myrm is superior... nooooo i can't belive that.... in kali beta... gall players: myrm is not uber enought >whinage whinage whinage whinage< poof myrm got boosted twice to make it mit all that uber minnie players: hurr is fun, a small tempest like ship >cheer< poof hurr lost one of its turrets because... mmm even tux was not sure by the reason... he said that the ship was not overpowered but it needed to lose its 7th turret... so i really can't guess how you can say that /rant mode off Originally by: Diana Merris Unfortunately, rather than address the slot layout/tanking issues for Minmatar the Devs have simple declared that it makes us "versitile".
hisgoatness Calista Industries	Posted - 2007.04.08 17:34:00 - [34] Hurricane pilot 6x220mm IIs, 2 Med NOS IIs 2x Large Shield Extender IIs, scram, MWD II 2xOverdrive Injector IIs, 2xnano, 2xgyro IIs 4 light ecm drones, 1 med ecm drone load barrage, use MWD to stay greater than 10km, use ecm drones to break his lock and take away his nos/web/blasters. Outrun his heavy drones.
Guo Nian	Posted - 2007.04.08 18:42:00 - [35] Originally by: Ath Amon /rant mode on myrm is superior... nooooo i can't belive that.... in kali beta... gall players: myrm is not uber enought >whinage whinage whinage whinage< poof myrm got boosted twice to make it mit all that uber minnie players: hurr is fun, a small tempest like ship >cheer< poof hurr lost one of its turrets because... mmm even tux was not sure by the reason... he said that the ship was not overpowered but it needed to lose its 7th turret... so i really can't guess how you can say that /rant mode off I see a "Boost The Hurricane or no easter eggs for you Tux!" Thread coming on. Oh hang on yes yes yes. Hrm nope too tired and its past easter, maybe when I wake up I will think of a better thread name. Anyway DAMNIT TUX, get your ass out of holiday mode and boost the hurricane.
Ryysa North Face Force Anarchy Empire	Posted - 2007.04.08 19:00:00 - [36] Basically, once the drones are dead, the hurricane can easily go into webrange of the myrm and pwn it. It should have no problem tanking the myrmidon's unbonused guns should it have any. If the myrm only has nos - that's fine, let him nos your cap nearly completely dry, just enough to keep scrambler running. (time it with the 2 nos of your own). Since you won't be needing to tank any damage. If the myrm has blasters, you will be able to tank him longer than he will be able to tank you. In reality however, since most fights take part at stations and gates, the myrm will just realize what you are trying to do, tank long enough and either dock or jump out. N.F.F. Recruitment
jerrard iceni Knights of Chaos Chaos Incarnate.	Posted - 2007.04.08 19:57:00 - [37] Originally by: hisgoatness Hurricane pilot 6x220mm IIs, 2 Med NOS IIs 2x Large Shield Extender IIs, scram, MWD II 2xOverdrive Injector IIs, 2xnano, 2xgyro IIs 4 light ecm drones, 1 med ecm drone load barrage, use MWD to stay greater than 10km, use ecm drones to break his lock and take away his nos/web/blasters. Outrun his heavy drones. /signed
Goumindong Amarr Merch Industrial We Are Nice Guys	Posted - 2007.04.08 20:04:00 - [38] Originally by: Ath Amon /rant mode on myrm is superior... nooooo i can't belive that.... in kali beta... gall players: myrm is not uber enought >whinage whinage whinage whinage< poof myrm got boosted twice to make it mit all that uber minnie players: hurr is fun, a small tempest like ship >cheer< poof hurr lost one of its turrets because... mmm even tux was not sure by the reason... he said that the ship was not overpowered but it needed to lose its 7th turret... so i really can't guess how you can say that /rant mode off It was likly the Artillery issue, not to mention that it did far too much AC damage[without training up for HAMs] The Cane, in its original Kali form had the same DPS with Arties as the Harbinger did with Beams. With twice the alpha strike. Since the Harb and the Cane are the most comparable ships such a situations was pretty untennable and the Cane was nerfed. Clearly they should have given the Harb an 8th turret instead ;) ---------------------------------------- Thou Shalt "Pew Pew"
Horza Otho Minmatar Infortunatus Eventus	Posted - 2007.04.09 01:17:00 - [39] It'll take careful and expert piloting on the Hurricanes part, but a Hurricane can beat a good skilled myrmidon with some skill, and luck.
Ren Tales Null Horizon Coalition of Carebear Killers	Posted - 2007.04.09 02:33:00 - [40] Originally by: Horza Otho It'll take careful and expert piloting on the Hurricanes part, but a Hurricane can beat a good skilled myrmidon with some skill, and luck. "You know, it'd take carefull fighting on the small guys part, but a 100 pound dude could actually kill a 200 pound wrestler. It would take some skill, and luck." ----

Wrayeth Shiva Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2007.04.09 03:01:00 - [41] To quote another poster: EVE has become Gallente Online. Myrmidon, Dominix, Hyperion, Blasterthron. 'nuff said. -Wrayeth "Look, pa! I just contributed absolutely nothing to this thread!" Might As well Train Another Race
Maeltstome Minmatar Eve Defence Force Pure.	Posted - 2007.04.09 03:51:00 - [42] In 1on1 combat, a 'cane will win if its setup the way most cane's should be setup. The only way the myrm will out-damage it is if is uses 5 heavy drones, and a good pilot who see this will simply sit at 18km and web and pop those drones so fast it becomes a null point. take into account the fact the cane will easily hit out to that distance with it's AC's and barrage, and its damage and ROF bonus will outstrip even a myrm with 6 auto's of its own equipped, the battle will just end up with the myrm being kited and shredded slowly. You could argue that the myrm is using corpum a-type's and could nos to that range, but then again you could argue a good cane pilot will use at least a shadow serp disruptor and sit at 25k, and still hit with fair consistency. The tanking bonus that the myrm gets would be its stongest point, but again it would require dual med's to tank that damage, and thats not sustainable, even jammed full of cap boosters it will still die after a few minutes. Thats 1on1 however, in a gang the myrm is a MUCH stronger ship. Versatility its it's main strength in that situation.
Ryysa North Face Force Anarchy Empire	Posted - 2007.04.09 03:53:00 - [43] Actually I would like to correct you about AC hitting. The hurricane unlike the vagabond does not receive a falloff bonus, so it's damage at 20km would be practically non-existant. N.F.F. Recruitment
Maeltstome Minmatar Eve Defence Force Pure.	Posted - 2007.04.09 04:04:00 - [44] 180MM AC's, low pg usage. 8k falloff, 25% for traj anal 5, 50% for barrage, 30% for 2x tech 1 falloff rigs. Its not cheap, but the lower cost of 180's should subsidise the cost of the rigs. Failing that just follow about a corpmate 0.0 ratting and get the parts yourself and make them. total falloff should be arround 16.5k/m, with optimal of 2.5K/m (with sharpshooter 5) = 19K/m with 70% accuracy. I usually say Opti +1.5xFalloff is my max effective range.
Tista	Posted - 2007.04.09 04:39:00 - [45] cane = love vs myr 8 weapons of choice ( personaly i would choose highest tracking medium weapons) mwd-20km scrammer- cap booster- cap recharger ( i think it has 4 mids:S) 4 speed mods 2 gyro II 2 cap regen rigs 1 damage mod rig <3 2500mps cane with mass dps! Originally by: inSpirAcy Don't worry, it's the bullying culture EVE attracts. You don't actually have to make a point if you get enough people to laugh with you.
Maeltstome Minmatar Eve Defence Force Pure.	Posted - 2007.04.09 04:47:00 - [46] And an unsustainable MWD - wp you've just lost 200mil worth of ship.
Ryysa North Face Force Anarchy Empire	Posted - 2007.04.09 06:30:00 - [47] Edited by: Ryysa on 09/04/2007 06:31:42 Originally by: Maeltstome 180MM AC's, low pg usage. 8k falloff, 25% for traj anal 5, 50% for barrage, 30% for 2x tech 1 falloff rigs. Its not cheap, but the lower cost of 180's should subsidise the cost of the rigs. Failing that just follow about a corpmate 0.0 ratting and get the parts yourself and make them. total falloff should be arround 16.5k/m, with optimal of 2.5K/m (with sharpshooter 5) = 19K/m with 70% accuracy. I usually say Opti +1.5xFalloff is my max effective range. Just fyi. At falloff+optimal your accuracy is 50%. at 2x falloff+optimal your accuracy is 0%. Decrease in accuracy is linear. That, and no one fits 2x falloff rigs on a cane, people fit 2x rep amount rigs + 1x falloff, or if it's a speed cane, 2x mass reduction rigs. So, traj analysis 4, sharpshooter 5, barrage, assuming your starting stats were correct. 50% damage at 2.5+81.21.5 = 16.9km Meaning at 31.3 km you do 0% damage. So, at 20km you would do approximately 39.2% damage (meaning, you will miss 60.8% of the time). With a t1 falloff rig... 50% damage at 2.5+81.21.51.15 = 19.06km 0% damage at 2.5+81.21.51.15*2 = 35.62 km So at 20km you would do approximately 47.2% damage (meaning, you will miss 52.8% of the time). Actually, forgot the fact that barrage cuts optimal, will re-do numbers with that applied. N.F.F. Recruitment
Nian Banks Minmatar Berserkers of Aesir	Posted - 2007.04.09 07:06:00 - [48] You know, theres only one thing I believe the Hurricane (and Cyclone) need to be a little more competitive. Thats a slightly better base targeting range. We all know the minmatar are meant to have poor sensors but to have the worst targeting range of just 45km, we are forced to fit a sensor booster to give us the targeting range to use arties with any fair range of fire. Caldari BC's 60km Gallente BC's 55km Amarr Bc's 50km Minmatar BC's 45km Were 15km less than the maximum and 7.5km below the average. Perhaps what we need is to increase the Minmatar Battlecruisers targeting range to 50km. Another sticking point is the small drone bay on the Hurricane when they reduced the turret slots, honestly it should have a 40m3 Drone Bay
Lonectzn Pelennor Swarm R i s e	Posted - 2007.04.09 09:25:00 - [49] It's pretty easy. For one you get a 14km falloff with the ac's + barrage. A hurricane can run an MWD + scram for almost four minutes, with no injector. And any self-respecting hurricane pilot doesn't have a rep (or passive shield tank - need that 4th mid for sensor boost or eccm). Hurricane is faster than myr (unless you're a retarded hurricane pilot). If myr decides to give chase the hurricane will last four minutes of mwd. Now, I don't use cap boosters. The myr will, and has to run rep + mwd with no nos help. Let's say he brings 10 800 charges. At 15km I'm still doing over 250dps or around, so you need at least one of the reppers going. The only way a myr is going to take down a hurricane in a situation like this is not launching his drones, mwd'ing to the hurricane using his repper as little as possible and saving charges, and hoping the hurricane doesn't just run past 20km and warp off. If you launch drones I'll kill them, takes a few seconds each after webbing. If you don't mwd to me then I don't need to mwd either, and eventually you're out of charges. Not to mention once I run out of cap, if I haven't left 20km range I'll be of the mind to turn around, switch to hail, and start hitting you with 500+ dps at close range. I wonder how much cap + charges you have left ----------------- Sig mod-whacked =/ Have had that signature for well over two years. 26,736 bytes. R.I.P Garfield.
SpawnSupreme	Posted - 2007.04.09 09:57:00 - [50] all you people are crazy lol yes the myrmidon is best ship but is do to the drones only... reason i say this is because you can fit a hurricain the same as you fit a myrmidon the rep of the myrmidon helps but is negated by the harder punch of minmitar wepons i use same set ups with bot ships and both are equaly impressive but the drones put out alot of dps. but a hurricain that hits an unexpecting myrmi can pull off a win but all minmitar ships are designed with pack attack faness and the other races were designed more solo 5 good hurricain pilots in my oppinion would own 5 myrmidon pilots but 1 vs 1 goes to myrmi. may seem strage but look at the speed for it is a large factor to ganking hence why minmitar ships are favored by pirates.

Tassill Minmatar GREY COUNCIL Breidablik	Posted - 2007.04.09 10:31:00 - [51] I dont know about these calculations people are giving here for the Cane they seem mighty far.... but it is realy a moot point any way. The fact of the matter is that the Cane gets neither a opti or falloff bonus so a smart Mym pilot who fits 220's with barrage will have exactly the same range as the cane and will be shooting at a 500% larger target. Yes the cane can sit at 20 km if they wish shooting the mym till the they run out of ammo but they arent going to kill it at that range and all this I will just kill the mym's drones before going into webrange talk assumes the mym pilot is stupid enough to over commit and launch them before getting you webbed. I am a Cane pilot myself and I aggree that the cane is a great ship but it is not a vagabond... its more of a rupture/munnin. The sleipnir now hats the vagabond of bc's
Lonectzn Pelennor Swarm R i s e	Posted - 2007.04.09 10:56:00 - [52] Originally by: Tassill I dont know about these calculations people are giving here for the Cane they seem mighty far.... but it is realy a moot point any way. The fact of the matter is that the Cane gets neither a opti or falloff bonus so a smart Mym pilot who fits 220's with barrage will have exactly the same range as the cane and will be shooting at a 500% larger target. Yes the cane can sit at 20 km if they wish shooting the mym till the they run out of ammo but they arent going to kill it at that range and all this I will just kill the mym's drones before going into webrange talk assumes the mym pilot is stupid enough to over commit and launch them before getting you webbed. I am a Cane pilot myself and I aggree that the cane is a great ship but it is not a vagabond... its more of a rupture/munnin. The sleipnir now hats the vagabond of bc's You're sitting too far away if you're at 20, and 250dps will kill a myr eventually, and I don't think any myr ever fits autos. Also before you get webbed should be corrected to if you ever get webbed. and if they're not 'stupid enough to overcommit' then they'll be doing exactly 0 dps to you, for a very long time. The hurricane is not a vaga, but it's halfway. Passive tank, kite bcs/bs's and cream anything smaller. High dps and high hp, with above average speed. I'd never fly one like a rupture, that's what you have the cyclone for. You don't orbit people, you kite them. If the myr doesn't mwd neither do you. You're just keeping at range. ----------------- Sig mod-whacked =/ Have had that signature for well over two years. 26,736 bytes. R.I.P Garfield.
Tassill Minmatar GREY COUNCIL Breidablik	Posted - 2007.04.09 11:09:00 - [53] Originally by: Lonectzn You're sitting too far away if you're at 20, and 250dps will kill a myr eventually, and I don't think any myr ever fits autos. ???? Its one of the best setups out there why would any one fit any thing but ac's with some nos?
Neo Rainhart Caldari Reiketsu.	Posted - 2007.04.09 20:18:00 - [54] Originally by: Xori Ruscuv Edited by: Xori Ruscuv on 20/03/2007 21:36:02 How to kill the *average* Myrmidon 1v1 with a Hurricane: 1. Dictate your range. Keep around 15 to 19km. Out of NOS range. Out of blaster range. 2. The Myrmidon will send out his heavy drones. Range is VERY important here, because you don't want the myrm pilot to be able to immediately scoop and immediately deploy. I love being able to get in an opponent's face with my blaster myrmidon. Takes no time to scoop and deploy. But if you stay at range... ouch. When they get to you, you will target them, web one, and set EVERYTHING you have on it. Make sure you aren't using tech 2 ammo at this point, so you can track it well enough. Web is essential in case the Myrmidon pilot recalls his drones. He'll send them out again... rinse and repeat. 3. The Myrmidon no longer has heavy drones. His ass is grass, and you're the lawn mower. If his nos is too much, dictate range, load barage. Remember, if he is using MWD, he's chugging cap charges like a mofo - and you are STILL going faster. 4. Profit. Disclaimer 1: That's the *average* Myrmidon scenario. If the Myrmidon pilot has a trick up his sleeve, it will be much different. Disclaimer 2: 1v1? What's that? Huzzah..Thats how its done ____________________ ____________________ Sigs ruin your health
Uncle Samm	Posted - 2007.05.22 06:19:00 - [55] Originally by: Terell i decent hurricane pilot can kill easily any myrmidon. Hehe. I love people like you because they are actively funding my myrmidon when they die and I take their stuff. Sure you can out run me, but you can't lock me with my damps on you. You need to get under 10k for you sensors to see me, and then you die.
Uncle Samm	Posted - 2007.05.22 06:37:00 - [56] Originally by: Neo Rainhart Originally by: Xori Ruscuv Edited by: Xori Ruscuv on 20/03/2007 21:36:02 How to kill the *average* Myrmidon 1v1 with a Hurricane: 1. Dictate your range. Keep around 15 to 19km. Out of NOS range. Out of blaster range. 2. The Myrmidon will send out his heavy drones. Range is VERY important here, because you don't want the myrm pilot to be able to immediately scoop and immediately deploy. I love being able to get in an opponent's face with my blaster myrmidon. Takes no time to scoop and deploy. But if you stay at range... ouch. When they get to you, you will target them, web one, and set EVERYTHING you have on it. Make sure you aren't using tech 2 ammo at this point, so you can track it well enough. Web is essential in case the Myrmidon pilot recalls his drones. He'll send them out again... rinse and repeat. 3. The Myrmidon no longer has heavy drones. His ass is grass, and you're the lawn mower. If his nos is too much, dictate range, load barage. Remember, if he is using MWD, he's chugging cap charges like a mofo - and you are STILL going faster. 4. Profit. Disclaimer 1: That's the *average* Myrmidon scenario. If the Myrmidon pilot has a trick up his sleeve, it will be much different. Disclaimer 2: 1v1? What's that? Huzzah..Thats how its done Once again, a great scenario to kill a myrmidon with a hurricane. That's right a scenario, not fitting or strategy. Here let me show you my scenario for a merlin to kill a vagabond. The vagabond pilot is sitting in a belt, the pilot decides to go make coffee and goes into another room. A merlin comes in and sees the vagabond and shoots at it until it dies. Pilot comes back with coffee and one less vagabond. My point? You can kill stupid people in stupid scenarios. Why would a myrm pilot send his drones at a target 15k away when he doesn't have damps or ECMs and he's soloing? I seem to remember that damps are pretty popular on mryms these days. I just fought my corpmate's cane today and when he was damped he was unable to lock me more then 8k away. He tried, and I webbed and nos'ed him to death. A good hurricane pilot can get away from a good myrm pilot, but he can't win.
Sahriah BloodStone	Posted - 2007.05.22 10:08:00 - [57] Im wondering how many damps you need to actually make that work..a myrm has 5 slots right.. 1x web 1x scram 1x med cap injector 1x MWD i see these as being almost essential for myrms so that leaves room for 1 sensor damp? Does it need to be faction or t2 or have rigs for this to work?
HankMurphy Minmatar Pelennor Swarm R i s e	Posted - 2007.05.22 10:56:00 - [58] Originally by: Lonectzn You don't orbit people, you kite them. If the myr doesn't mwd neither do you. You're just keeping at range. lone and i fly a bit different. but the man knows what he's talkin about. but i still have my spin on things.... let me throw a couple ideas out there for cane pilots... so you can kite to hit nice, but vs other gun boats able to fire in your range, you just slug it out. what if you did orbit? what if there was some ew out there that would let you orbit and hit as if kiting... while your enemy still experienced diminished results due to your transversal? Maybe some kinda EW that would let your gang mates hit better too? and about those lows. Dont waste your time with more than one speed mod. Add an overdrive injector if you dont like your speed, but for gods sakes, dont waste any more slot past that (you can fit rigs). Speed is an advantage, but its not a vagabond so dont rely on it for definitive combat advantage. Damage control to match the unhardened extender might be a good idea. Also, who says you cant fit some armor action on top of the shield extender? Matar does have a split slot layout most dont have the brains to take advantage of. You have a ship so nasty they had to take a turret off, some might say that would be reason enough to fit all the gyros you can? your weapons dont use cap, so why bother using nos when you can fit missile dps? just some ideas. i'm not gonna do the H/M/L. tbh, since my last post in here i've probly fit this ship 6 ways to sunday, and each setup has had its go at myrms, drakes and a multitude of others. Has yet to fail me, when they die, its under extreme duress If you cant make it work you need to fly caldari.
HankMurphy Minmatar Pelennor Swarm R i s e	Posted - 2007.05.22 11:06:00 - [59] Originally by: Wrayeth To quote another poster: EVE has become Gallente Online. Myrmidon, Dominix, Hyperion, Blasterthron. 'nuff said. dont lose faith Wrayeth! Myrm, Domi, Hyperion, BlastT? I say Cane, Pest, Mael (i know, i know) and Pest. Sure, we need another 10 mil SP, but a serious pilot can do it. Besides, pimpin aint easy
Sadist Rage and Terror Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2007.05.22 11:16:00 - [60] Originally by: Xori Ruscuv Disclaimer 2: 1v1? What's that? It's when both of the duelists have cynos fitted. òòòòòòòòòòòò VIP member of the [23] Quote: - Numbers alone do not win a battle - No, but I bet they help.

Pete Stalker Celtic Anarchy Anarchy Empire	Posted - 2007.05.22 11:33:00 - [61] eeehm, why no falloff rigs? every medium sized minmatar ship should be able to hit at 20km without problem imo more falloff means more range in a faster ship, so you can dictate range which means you make more dmg while getting less dmg from your enemy. i really cant see how nano pump rigs could be any better and dont use med nos with barrage. it's a waste of range, you wont use it anyway as long as you got everything under control. get 2 heavy missile launchers (t2 ofc) and get even more damage than your target and blow him up There is no buisness like Pete's buisness.
Bentula	Posted - 2007.05.22 14:31:00 - [62] cane: 6x220mm t2, 2xmed nos 10mn mwd t2, scram t2, 2xdamps 2xoverdrive t2, 2xnano t2, 2xgyro Plan is as following, get lock first, keep changing distance between 5-15km. Spice with rigs whereever you feel to cover shortcomings such as speed, damp strength or cap.
Guillame Herschel Gallente Cheers Restaurant and Bar Coalition Of Empires	Posted - 2007.05.22 23:21:00 - [63] Originally by: Ren Tales Anyone have any reason they think the hurricane is better? 6.6 mil in Gunnery, 1.2mil in Drones. I know which ship I prefer. -- Guile can always trump hardware --
Yuan Thi	Posted - 2007.05.23 01:04:00 - [64] lol hf mwding around the myrmidon which has 5 mid slots and one of them will probably contain a tracking disruptor. MWD around + TD will make your canes AC cry.
Uncle Samm	Posted - 2007.05.23 04:52:00 - [65] Originally by: Sahriah BloodStone Im wondering how many damps you need to actually make that work..a myrm has 5 slots right.. 1x web 1x scram 1x med cap injector 1x MWD i see these as being almost essential for myrms so that leaves room for 1 sensor damp? Does it need to be faction or t2 or have rigs for this to work? I use two t2 damps on my myrm. If i were you I would get rid of the cap injector and fit more nos on. People don't like it but nos to a myrm is like a MWD to a cane, you can do without it but it just doesn't work as well. I was able to run the MWD on my myrm for over 300k on regen alone. Anyway, the point of the damps is to make the enemy come to you, force them into nos range where you can use nos to make their cap your own. A cane won't be doing damage until it's already under 10k. Provided you have good damping skills.
Ren Tales Null Horizon	Posted - 2007.05.23 08:09:00 - [66] I HEREBY RENOUNCE THIS TOPIC I have figured out how to actually fly my ship, making hurricane the clear winner. ---- The name is Tal-ez, not Tay-uls.
Uncle Samm	Posted - 2007.05.24 05:51:00 - [67] Originally by: Ren Tales I HEREBY RENOUNCE THIS TOPIC I have figured out how to actually fly my ship, making hurricane the clear winner. hangs head in defeat Fellow myrmidon pilots, we have failed this man.
Ren Tales Null Horizon	Posted - 2007.05.25 09:07:00 - [68] I flew myrmidon for a while. It's tasty. But hurricane is better if you can actually fly it properly. No joke. ---- The name is Tal-ez, not Tay-uls.
Drek Grapper Minmatar	Posted - 2007.05.25 15:57:00 - [69] Originally by: Ren Tales I flew myrmidon for a while. It's tasty. But hurricane is better if you can actually fly it properly. No joke. And your fitting is...??
Megan Maynard Minmatar RONA Deepspace	Posted - 2007.05.25 16:18:00 - [70] http://dl.eve-files.com/media/corp/damige/damigecontrol.wmv Watch, drool, and see why the cane is the coolest ship in eve. Minmatar 4tw. PS, if you are Minmatar, and whining, it means you don't have skillz yet. They are the hardest race to play for a reason: once you have the skillz you will pwn any other race. The shear damage output of a properly fit/skilled hurricane is mind boggling. And those using quickfit to comment, STUPID. How many times will a blaster boat get in the PERFECT range to hit for full damage? The t2 med drones are a joke to a cane, t2 220's will rip them to shreds. And yes t2 220's are pretty much amazing on a cane.

FranzBardon	Posted - 2007.05.26 12:26:00 - [71] I fly them both and in 1vs1 i would prefer Myrmidon. Remember to fit tracking disrupters and drone setup should be 4 Heavy 5 light drones...
Harotak The Burning Orphans Exuro Mortis	Posted - 2007.05.26 13:18:00 - [72] If you ask me the Harby should get its 8th turret, the drake should get its ROF bonus, and the cane should get its 7th turret. The BCs as they were origionaly designed were pretty well ballanced but the myrm seemed a bit weak. They should have either boosted the myrm, or nerfed the others, but not both (which is what they did)
Drek Grapper Minmatar	Posted - 2007.05.26 18:45:00 - [73] Edited by: Drek Grapper on 26/05/2007 18:43:56 Originally by: Megan Maynard http://dl.eve-files.com/media/corp/damige/damigecontrol.wmv Watch, drool, and see why the cane is the coolest ship in eve. Minmatar 4tw. PS, if you are Minmatar, and whining, it means you don't have skillz yet. They are the hardest race to play for a reason: once you have the skillz you will pwn any other race. The shear damage output of a properly fit/skilled hurricane is mind boggling. And those using quickfit to comment, STUPID. How many times will a blaster boat get in the PERFECT range to hit for full damage? The t2 med drones are a joke to a cane, t2 220's will rip them to shreds. And yes t2 220's are pretty much amazing on a cane. Awesome video...thanks for that. And thanks to Damige for making it!
DaMiGe Amarr Infinitus Odium	Posted - 2007.05.26 20:20:00 - [74] Originally by: Drek Grapper Edited by: Drek Grapper on 26/05/2007 18:43:56 Originally by: Megan Maynard http://dl.eve-files.com/media/corp/damige/damigecontrol.wmv Watch, drool, and see why the cane is the coolest ship in eve. Minmatar 4tw. PS, if you are Minmatar, and whining, it means you don't have skillz yet. They are the hardest race to play for a reason: once you have the skillz you will pwn any other race. The shear damage output of a properly fit/skilled hurricane is mind boggling. And those using quickfit to comment, STUPID. How many times will a blaster boat get in the PERFECT range to hit for full damage? The t2 med drones are a joke to a cane, t2 220's will rip them to shreds. And yes t2 220's are pretty much amazing on a cane. Awesome video...thanks for that. And thanks to Damige for making it! Not a problem! part 2 soon-ish ---> My vids <--- latest movie = DaMiGe Control 1
Ren Tales Null Horizon	Posted - 2007.05.29 11:11:00 - [75] Originally by: Drek Grapper Originally by: Ren Tales I flew myrmidon for a while. It's tasty. But hurricane is better if you can actually fly it properly. No joke. And your fitting is...?? Now a highly classified secret. I tried to tell people about it and they ridiculed me, so I just kinda shruged and continued owning people in it, and now that I've worked up a reputation in it (ask veto how I nearly escaped their gank squad full of interceptors, and nearly killed one of them on the way out), I've decided to keep my setup to myself. ---- The name is Tal-ez, not Tay-uls.


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