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Repair Drones... why can't they repair yourself??

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Rodyo	Posted - 2007.03.20 18:25:00 - [1] Hey Am I the only one that think its odd that repair drones cannot repair your own ship. I realize that to use them you need the skills needed for either Remote Armor Repair or Shield Emission Systems, and that makes sense. It also makes sense that Shield Energy Transfer modules and Remote Armor Repair modules cannot be used on your own ship... but the drones are not aboard your ship, and why can't they repair you? Maybe it the problem with you targetting yourself but that could be worked around. Say if you have a repair drone in orbit around you and you take damage, they have a standing order to start repairing yourself... would seem logical. Like combat drones engaging enemies that is firing upon you, without you having to tell them. Of course if you give them a different order, that should take presidence, but as soon they return to orbit your ship, they should start repairing your ship, if repair is required. Or am I wrong... is it illogical to imagine that your own drones can repair your own ship? _____ Rodyo Live long..... and pay taxes longer
Zalathar Minmatar Biometaloid INC	Posted - 2007.03.20 18:31:00 - [2] dominix would become completly tanked and unbeatable. think ~~~~~~ thats a hamster, a tester used by EVE radio ~~~~~~
smallgreenblur Minmatar Wreckless Abandon	Posted - 2007.03.20 18:37:00 - [3] Yes it is perfectly logical to think repair drones should be able to repair their own ship. Sadly in EvE balance > logic. sgb
Phish1 Liberty Forces Ratel Alliance	Posted - 2007.03.20 18:41:00 - [4] if a domi is all tank with rep drones, then klill his drones, not hard.
super bomberman	Posted - 2007.03.20 18:43:00 - [5] if a domi was going to use all of its drones to rep itself it would gimp his own dps, seems like a fair trade imo
smallgreenblur Minmatar Wreckless Abandon	Posted - 2007.03.20 18:46:00 - [6] Yes, because a domi can't have a flight of heavy repair drones and a flight of Ogre IIs in his drone bay at once and swap them around depending on what he needs to do. Anyway it's a moot point. You can't repair without locking and you can't lock yourself. Either would be rather difficult to change i think. sgb
Iuris Proeliator Caldari Eve University Ivy League	Posted - 2007.03.20 19:04:00 - [7] Quote: Sadly in EvE balance > logic. I wouldn't call it sad. Unbalanced is not fun. Not fun means you quit. You quit means CCP doesn't get money. So balance = Logic for CCP
CaptainOkuna Guaranteed Overnight Delivery Services	Posted - 2007.03.20 19:06:00 - [8] Edited by: CaptainOkuna on 20/03/2007 19:02:50 You're either with us. Or against us.
NIkis Minmatar Hidden Agenda Deep Space Engineering	Posted - 2007.03.20 19:24:00 - [9] Huh ? what imbalance ? the only ships who could use repair drones with some success would be eos, ishtar and domi (and maybe 1-2 others that i've missed). The rest got crap drone bay and if they want to fly with a complement of repair drones they'd be stuck with them. The first ships mentioned cannot use dps and repair drones at the same time. No imbalance just lazy devs :) still i think it woluld be quite easy to implement a self repair function when the drones are on stand-by (this would lead to conflicts if you get attacked while they are repairing so not sure how it can be done code-wise, as it seems all drones are treated in the same manner in code, actually when you repair someone you 'attack' him).
Slickdrac Minmatar Replicatorz Adamant Domain	Posted - 2007.04.15 19:47:00 - [10] Or, you know, you could have two Domi's side by side, repair each other, and have fighter drones, and swap when you need to >_>
Requiescat	Posted - 2007.04.15 19:51:00 - [11] or you could have a pwnsause« armageddon with mega pulses, nossies and no rep with 5 heavy armor drones taking care of all your damage. goodbye, cap power relay. hello, heatsink II --=-- I turned off "show corp/alliance" because, to be frank, I'm ashamed of them. They'll be turned back on when I'm somewhere more suitable for someone of my talents.
lofty29 Athanasius Inc. SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2007.04.15 20:01:00 - [12] N-N-N-N-NECROBREAKER! --- Sig under maintainance
Captain Campion Synergy. Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2007.11.10 14:00:00 - [13] i'd like to raise this again, i really think it seems perfectly logical for drones to repair the controller when in orbit
Naviset	Posted - 2007.11.10 14:03:00 - [14] Originally by: Captain Campion i'd like to raise this again, i really think it seems perfectly logical for drones to repair the controller when in orbit There are certain ships this would be pretty broken on, especially since you can instascoop rep drones since they'll be orbitting you.
Maverick 52	Posted - 2007.11.10 15:15:00 - [15] Edited by: Maverick 52 on 10/11/2007 15:16:44 Drone bandwith can take care of the balance issues. All you have to do on ships like the dominix(or Thron style battleships more likely) is add a 5%(or whatever) bonus to drone bandwith consumtion to keep people from flying a flight of heavy rep drones while setting up for gank. I support the idea of the rep drones repping your own ship. Would make things more interesting.
Xequecal	Posted - 2007.11.10 15:46:00 - [16] I really don't see how it would be broken, as any brokenness inherent in it can easily be replicated today by just having two of the broken setup and having their drones rep each other. Since nobody is doing this, I really don't see how it's that strong.
Acoco Osiris Gallente Sublime.	Posted - 2007.11.10 15:57:00 - [17] Originally by: Naviset Originally by: Captain Campion i'd like to raise this again, i really think it seems perfectly logical for drones to repair the controller when in orbit There are certain ships this would be pretty broken on, especially since you can instascoop rep drones since they'll be orbitting you. Twice necrod, and I agree with Naviset here. Rep drones would orbit yourself, making it pretty easy to insta-scoop. But overall, NECRO!
Belce Caldari ADAMA Corps Division of Eden	Posted - 2007.11.10 17:15:00 - [18] In order to repair you must first have a valid lockon and you can't lockon to yourself. It is a limitation of the game mechanics. Truth is Truth
Hannobaal Gallente Igneus Auctorita GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.11.10 17:29:00 - [19] Originally by: Captain Campion i'd like to raise this again, i really think it seems perfectly logical for drones to repair the controller when in orbit It makes about as much sense to me as having remote repairers repping your own ship.
IceAero Amarr Shadow Company	Posted - 2007.11.10 18:29:00 - [20] Edited by: IceAero on 10/11/2007 18:29:42 Edited by: IceAero on 10/11/2007 18:29:26 Originally by: Hannobaal Originally by: Captain Campion i'd like to raise this again, i really think it seems perfectly logical for drones to repair the controller when in orbit It makes about as much sense to me as having remote repairers repping your own ship. What are you, nuts? Remote rep = on your ship 'projecting' a repair field to another object. Rep drone = orbiting you (or anything), able to rep it. I agree 100% Repair drones in orbit = repair yourself. OR just add a 'repair self' option to drones
Naviset	Posted - 2007.11.10 19:33:00 - [21] Originally by: Xequecal I really don't see how it would be broken, as any brokenness inherent in it can easily be replicated today by just having two of the broken setup and having their drones rep each other. Since nobody is doing this, I really don't see how it's that strong. Rep drones require lock times, teamwork, and rep gangs make it difficult for someone to immediately take care of themselves when they notice they're taking primary. This means you could stack resists on a ship such as, say, a megathron, and then only have to carry one large repper, buffer tank it, and then you tank like you have a dual rep tank PLUS 40k armor to fall back on. It'd make certain ships very broken, and you wouldnt be able to kill the drones off unless they were being dumb. If you think that the phoon / thron / hyp / geddon are incredible ganktankers now you should see them if this is added. So no, it isnt the same, because you have much faster ability in putting the rep drones to counter incoming damage, it requires no teamwork, AND they dont actually have to fly away from your ship (Making them basically impossible to kill, especially on a 5mid ship like a hyperion that has room for locktime damps). Note: Hyperion tanks like a mofo as it is. Leave things as they are.
Hannobaal Gallente Igneus Auctorita GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.11.10 19:52:00 - [22] Originally by: IceAero Edited by: IceAero on 10/11/2007 18:29:42 Edited by: IceAero on 10/11/2007 18:29:26 Originally by: Hannobaal Originally by: Captain Campion i'd like to raise this again, i really think it seems perfectly logical for drones to repair the controller when in orbit It makes about as much sense to me as having remote repairers repping your own ship. What are you, nuts? Remote rep = on your ship 'projecting' a repair field to another object. Rep drone = orbiting you (or anything), able to rep it. I agree 100% Repair drones in orbit = repair yourself. OR just add a 'repair self' option to drones Both are a form of logistics intended to repair frienlies and keep them alive. They are basically the same thing except that one projects its effects through a high slot and the other through drones. Your logic would work if this was real life and real technology, but if that was the case then (for starters) our ships wouldn't slow down when their engines turned off.
Fehnrail Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2007.11.10 21:53:00 - [23] I think it makes perfect sense for repair drones to have a "Repair Self" option. You trade drone DPS for tank. It's the exact same kind of tradeoff as you do with everything else when it comes to combat. Besides, with the new changes to the drones where they won't instantly restore their shields if scooped and adjustments of bandwidth, I do not see how this would be overpowered. There is fighting, and then there is fighting: Some weapons are more useful than others, and not all battles must be won.
Xequecal	Posted - 2007.11.10 21:58:00 - [24] Originally by: Naviset Originally by: Xequecal I really don't see how it would be broken, as any brokenness inherent in it can easily be replicated today by just having two of the broken setup and having their drones rep each other. Since nobody is doing this, I really don't see how it's that strong. Rep drones require lock times, teamwork, and rep gangs make it difficult for someone to immediately take care of themselves when they notice they're taking primary. This means you could stack resists on a ship such as, say, a megathron, and then only have to carry one large repper, buffer tank it, and then you tank like you have a dual rep tank PLUS 40k armor to fall back on. It'd make certain ships very broken, and you wouldnt be able to kill the drones off unless they were being dumb. If you think that the phoon / thron / hyp / geddon are incredible ganktankers now you should see them if this is added. So no, it isnt the same, because you have much faster ability in putting the rep drones to counter incoming damage, it requires no teamwork, AND they dont actually have to fly away from your ship (Making them basically impossible to kill, especially on a 5mid ship like a hyperion that has room for locktime damps). Note: Hyperion tanks like a mofo as it is. Leave things as they are. This requires a minimum amount of teamwork. All you have to do is target your teammate at the same time you target your enemy and tell the drones to repair. You can completely forget about them after that, they'll do their thing anyway. Hell, if you're waiting in a spot for enemies to come to you you can just command them to repair while you're waiting, and they'll keep repping when hostiles show up. Now, if you're using remote armor repairers to rep each other, I'd agree you have a point. You have to worry about range, cap use, and being jammed/damped. But drones are really fire and forget here.
Naviset	Posted - 2007.11.10 23:34:00 - [25] Originally by: Fehnrail I think it makes perfect sense for repair drones to have a "Repair Self" option. You trade drone DPS for tank. It's the exact same kind of tradeoff as you do with everything else when it comes to combat. Besides, with the new changes to the drones where they won't instantly restore their shields if scooped and adjustments of bandwidth, I do not see how this would be overpowered. Because they wont get shot much so it doesnt matter. Instascoop breaks the lock before major damage can occur and damps break the lock making them try again. Originally by: Xequecal This requires a minimum amount of teamwork. All you have to do is target your teammate at the same time you target your enemy and tell the drones to repair. You can completely forget about them after that, they'll do their thing anyway. Hell, if you're waiting in a spot for enemies to come to you you can just command them to repair while you're waiting, and they'll keep repping when hostiles show up. Now, if you're using remote armor repairers to rep each other, I'd agree you have a point. You have to worry about range, cap use, and being jammed/damped. But drones are really fire and forget here. However it does require teamwork, and the further they get away the longer it takes to bring them back. Heavy drones have travel time to get to whoever is primaried (Your example doesnt really work cause you dont know the primary beforehand) and travel time back for the scoop if attacked. This really is a major difference. Trust me, you don't want to fight a hyperion using these on itself.
Srenim Orcam	Posted - 2007.11.11 00:02:00 - [26] Originally by: Rodyo Why can't you repair yourself? The Jovians. Next question.
Hannobaal Gallente Igneus Auctorita GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.11.11 00:21:00 - [27] Originally by: Fehnrail I think it makes perfect sense for repair drones to have a "Repair Self" option. You trade drone DPS for tank. It's the exact same kind of tradeoff as you do with everything else when it comes to combat. So, then you should be able to use remote repairers as well in the same way. You're just trading dps (high slots) for tank, right?
Fehnrail Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2007.11.11 01:02:00 - [28] Edited by: Fehnrail on 11/11/2007 01:04:36 Originally by: Hannobaal So, then you should be able to use remote repairers as well in the same way. You're just trading dps (high slots) for tank, right? Let's compare the DPS of a flight of heavy drones to a DPS of a single turret hardpoint, which is barely applicable to most ships as most ships have less hardpoints than highslots. Then let's take into account that a flight of heavy armor maintenance drones will only repair as much as a single remote repairer. It's actually much cheaper, DPS-wise, to use hardpoint slots for the purpose of repairing another ship than it is to use drones for the same purpose. This is especially true with droneboats. This is why it would be imbalanced to allow remote armor repairers to also repair yourself. It must also be noted that drones are limited by bandwidth and by bay size. Remote armor repairers, if applied only to yourself, would only face a limitation of capacitor. There is a huge difference, because remote armor repairers cannot be neutralized in any way other than running the ship out of cap charges or overcoming its repair ability. Drones can be easily shot down. Thus, it makes no sense for drones to not have the option of repairing yourself. There is fighting, and then there is fighting: Some weapons are more useful than others, and not all battles must be won.
Naviset	Posted - 2007.11.11 04:41:00 - [29] Originally by: Fehnrail Edited by: Fehnrail on 11/11/2007 01:06:53 Edited by: Fehnrail on 11/11/2007 01:04:36 Originally by: Hannobaal So, then you should be able to use remote repairers as well in the same way. You're just trading dps (high slots) for tank, right? Let's compare the DPS of a flight of heavy drones to a DPS of a single turret hardpoint, which is barely applicable to most ships as most ships have less hardpoints than highslots. Then let's take into account that a flight of heavy armor maintenance drones will only repair as much as a single large remote repairer. It's actually much cheaper, DPS-wise, to use hardpoint slots for the purpose of repairing another ship than it is to use drones for the same purpose. This is especially true with droneboats. This is why it would be imbalanced to allow remote armor repairers to also repair yourself. It must also be noted that drones are limited by bandwidth and by bay size. Remote armor repairers, if applied only to yourself, would only face a limitation of capacitor. There is a huge difference, because remote armor repairers cannot be neutralized in any way other than running the ship out of cap charges or overcoming its repair ability. Drones can be easily shot down. Thus, it makes no sense for drones to not have the option of repairing yourself. Last I checked, RLARs took an obscene amount of capacitor to run, meaning it would honestly make more sense to me that if you want a remote repairer to target yourself, it'd be this one. However once again because of the lower fitting requirements ships like an Armageddon or Megathron could use these to save itself a lowslot and 2000grid by using these. Your drones provide nearly as much DPS tankable as a full flight of Ogre IIs allow, once you consider a high resist omnitank. The repair bots can't really be shot down unless you're a muppet because theres no delay on their return to your drone bay.. I guess you're also failing to see the dampener usage here as well. As an additional imbalance, Rep drones take no cap, and have no cap, providing several hundred damage per second tankable without any sort of cap usage. The problem here is no the dominix. The domi would be fine. It's ships that have impressive turret-based damage capabilities (Impressive to the point that this damage would allow them to eliminate ships even without drone dps, eg. a hyperion with blasters has more damage than most ships can tank even before drones are calculated in. Adding this repair drone ability would Vastly increase the amount of time a Hyperion can survive while still meaning it has enough damage to get kills. This extra tankable damage would allow a Hyperion to tank numerous battleships and battlecruisers.
Naviset	Posted - 2007.11.11 04:53:00 - [30] Originally by: Arthur Frayn A carrier could rep itself with repair drones. Assign them to gangmates, then have them rep you. Or can you only assign fighters? You can only assign fighters.

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